Morning Joe - Morning Joe 1/30/25

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

Dozens feared dead after plane and Army helicopter collide near D.C.

Good morning. We are starting morning, Joe, a few minutes early this morning. On this Thursday, January 30th, we want to get right to the breaking news out of Washington, D.C. An American Airlines passenger flight crashed midair with an Army helicopter in the D.C. area. Video captured by EarthCamp of the collision right over the Potomac River. It happened just before 9 p.m. Eastern Time near Reagan National Airport. The plane departed from

Wichita, Kansas with 60 passengers and four crew members on board. Officials say the Black Hawk helicopter, which is part of the 12th Aviation Battalion from Fort Belvoir, had three people on board. The battalion is responsible for transporting VIP passengers, usually top Pentagon leaders. None were on board at the time. An Army official tells NBC News they were on a training flight. Audio appears to show the moment air traffic controllers

witnessed the crash and relayed information to the gate. I would suggest you guys coordinate with companies, let me know where you want to go. All right, we'll let the company talk to them right now. Yeah, we witnessed the whole thing. Right now, a massive search and rescue operation is underway in the Potomac River, but first responders are dealing with extremely difficult conditions. The water that we're operating in is about eight feet deep. There is wind.

There is pieces of ice out there. So it's just dangerous and hard to work in. And because there's not a lot of lights, you're out there searching every square inch of space to see if you can find anybody. Divers are doing the same thing in the water. The water is dark. It is murky.

And that is a very tough condition for them to dive in. So as of now, no survivors have been found. NBC Washington reports at least 12 bodies have been recovered, citing two sources familiar with the search efforts, one local affiliate citing 19. Overnight, U.S. Figure Skating confirmed that several of its members were on board the American Airlines flight. The organization says athletes and coaches and family members were returning home from the National Development Camp held in conjunction with the skating championships in Wichita.

Meanwhile, Reagan National Airport is expected to be closed until 11 a.m. this morning. Takeoffs and landings were halted around 9 p.m. shortly after the crash last night. Willie? All right, let's go right to the scene in Alexandria, Virginia, along the Potomac River. NBC News correspondent Aaron Gilchrist not far from where that collision took place. Aaron, good morning. So we're talking about 67 people, three soldiers aboard that Army Black Hawk helicopter,

64 people according to American Airlines on that commercial aircraft. What more can you tell us right now about the search and rescue mission? Well, this search and rescue mission is still very much ongoing. You may be able to hear the helicopter that's flying overhead.

There were a few at least that were up late last night. We've had one circling going back and forth up and down the river the entire time that we've been out here this morning. And you may be able to see still some flashing lights over my shoulder here. This has been an effort that started almost immediately after the first reports of this plane and helicopter collision came in a little before 9 o'clock last night Eastern time. We saw as many as 300 according to DC fire 300 first responders respond to this scene from agencies throughout the national capital region. They have a mutual aid agreement where when something like this happens, you'll have really

first responders from DC and counties in Virginia, Maryland, federal responders, state responders as well, all show up at the same time. They've been in the water. Divers have been in the water through the night, along with boats on the water going through, as we understand, the fuselage from the aircraft, the regional airplane that went down here, as well as that Black Hawk helicopter. Again, trying to find some of those passengers, trying to find some of those crew members who went into the water with these aircraft last night.

As you noted, at this point, we don't know that any survivors have been found and we don't officially have word that bodies have been recovered, although sources have told our affiliate here that 12 or more bodies have been recovered to this point that question was put to DC Mayor Muriel Bowser last night or rather this morning during a briefing that she gave she wouldn't answer directly about the number of people who may have been recovered or who may have survived here we do expect Willie there will be another news conference around 730 this morning after the Sun comes up at a point at which we we think that first responders will be able to have even more

Obviously visibility and perhaps more access to this search scene. Yeah about an hour away still from sunrise there. We're hearing From as you said NBC, Washington more than a dozen bodies have been recovered perhaps as many as 20 But obviously it's a very fluid situation out there. We'll get an update at 730. Aaron, early hours here, but what are you hearing from sources about what we saw on that video and what we heard on air traffic control, which is a clear night, a pretty routine approach into Reagan National, and that Blackhawk helicopter, despite the warnings from air traffic control, flying directly into the commercial airplane? A lot of people asking already already how could that have happened? That really is the big question here, Willie, because this is such a tightly controlled

airspace around Washington, D.C. Commercial aircraft for the most part don't fly over the District of Columbia and there are so many military facilities all the way down to Quantico, the Marine Corps base south of the airport, Fort Belvoir also south, directly across from DCA. You have the Joint Base Anacostia bowling, Fort McNair is here. There are so many military installations here where these sorts of helicopters would be moving about that it's hard to believe that the protocols wouldn't have helped something like this not to happen.

And so it's one of the questions that's being asked. But the focus first is on trying to get to the victims of this crash, and then you're going to see the NTSB, the FAA, the Department of Defense all come in here and try to figure out exactly what happened, how it happened, and how to prevent it from ever happening again. Alright, NBC's Aaron Gilchrist in Virginia for us right there along the Potomac at the scene of the crash. Aaron, we'll be back to you very soon. We appreciate it.

Mika? You know, Mika, there are a lot of questions obviously about how in the world this could happen. How could you have a helicopter coming and cutting across a flight path, David, where every two minutes at that time there were flights? Well, all of us around here have flown into Reagan National and know, as you've said, that when you come in there's going to be a lot of traffic. Still, this is highly unusual, but as you say, every time you land at National you know

you're flying into an extraordinarily congested situation. It's, Joey, it's busy and it's gotten busier year by year. I fly, like many of us, once a week it seems out of National. And the growing traffic that's associated with, I believe it's Langley Air Force Base, which is across the river, just as you look out the window makes you think, I believe it's Langley Air Force Space, which is across the river. Just as you look out the window, makes you think, wow, there's a lot more in this air space than there used to be. That's not to say anything about why this particular crash happened.

It's just every traveler's experiences, wow, this is a busy airport. It's very congested in Cattie. Even members of Congress complained about this last year. Yeah, a group of savages looking up the letter, but seven members of Congress complained about this last year. Yeah, a group of savages looking up the letter, seven members of Congress who live in this area who all have constituents in the Reagan Air Force airport area, sent out a note a year ago in May of 2024 saying that this plans to expand traffic into the airport were dangerous for the airport. There was already great risk. This is already the busiest airport,

the busiest runway in the country, that one runway is the busiest runway in the country. And they just said, this is getting too dangerous. We've all seen the expansion of the airport. We know that this is not viable. And it is, it is extraordinarily busy traffic. That said, John, the United States commercial aviation has had an extraordinary run over the past 15 years, I believe it is, 16 years since

the last crash. Of course, that one, I believe the one up in Buffalo. Yeah, it is. I mean, that is to add to this. It's such a congested area. Also, National Airport, remarkably close to the city center, much more so than other big city airports, just adding to the number of the traffic, the air traffic, their helicopters and the like. But this is certainly, as you say, the exception rather than the rule. The last major air crash in the U.S. was back in 2009 near Buffalo, New York. There hasn't been a fatal crash involving a major U.S. passenger plane in nearly 16 years. Yet, as the Wall Street Journal is pointing out, air safety officials, controllers and airlines have dealt with a rise in near misses

and narrowly averted crashes around airports in recent years. Officials have pointed to persistent staffing shortages at air traffic control facilities, newer and less experienced pilots and technology Joe that needs improvement. And Ali, it's something that we've heard. We've heard complaints post COVID that there weren't enough air traffic controllers that again, of course, not the case here where the air traffic controller specifically says, asks, do you see the CRJ 700? And got the affirmative from the helicopter pilot

that he in fact did. Yeah, absolutely. And so there's going to be a lot of questions about where that miscommunication could have come. But I want to go back to what Katty was saying, because there was a conversation just a year ago about expanding the number of flights that go in and out of Reagan.

And this is what some lawmakers were concerned about, compounded by the fact that there are these shortages with air traffic controllers and that they're working longer hours and that training up a whole new force of them is gonna take a lot of time. So it's eight minutes past the hour. If you're just joining us,

we're covering breaking news out of Washington, DC, where an American Airlines passenger jet crashed midair with a Black Hawk helicopter, the two aircraft plunging into the Potomac River. American Eagle Flight 5342, which was coming from Wichita, Kansas, was carrying 60 passengers and four crew members on board. The Black Hawk helicopter had three on board and right now a massive search and rescue operation is underway in the frigid waters of the Potomac. Up to 19 bodies have been removed so far and we are awaiting a news conference at 730 Eastern

Time on this. Joining us now, NBC News aviation analyst John Cox. He's a former pilot and accident investigator with more than 20 years experience. And John, I'm curious what first comes to mind when you saw the video, heard the audio about what happened here. I think it's important to recognize that this is a very routine operation. This change of a runway to have the RJ land on runway 33. It's routinely done. Pilots know how to handle that. Everything that we can see,

the jet tracked exactly where they should have been. Air traffic control asked the military helicopter to do they see the RJ and to pass behind it. And from this point, we don't know a whole lot. This is what NTSB is gonna to investigators are going to be looking at was the ground track of the Black Hawk helicopter, where they were, and how they this this mid air collision could have occurred. There should have been vertical separation between the two aircraft. Vertical separation and also any collision collision avoidance systems that you would know these

aircraft to have? You may be able to see it. They'll have to determine if the Black Hawk had the Terminal Collision Avoidance System known as TCAS on board. And also TCAS is inhibited below a given altitude. So it may not have actually been functioning because of the low altitude of the jet. John? Yeah, John, walk us through just for the layman, the people who fly in day in day out of these airports, just the choreography, the intense and delicate choreography needed by air traffic

control to land all of these airplanes safely and then also factor in other aircraft whether it's civilian or military helicopters small planes in the area just talk to us about how complicated that is. Reagan National Airport is a complex airport to land at and it's one I always enjoyed flying in and out of there. The quality of the controllers is very high. They move a lot of airplanes in and out of a pretty compact area. You have the river to work with and they will clear you, you know, follow the river up.

If you're landing to the north, typically on runway one, and it's very often that they'll say, okay, can you circle to land runway three, three? That is also very routine. And then you all oftentimes see helicopters below you coming southbound from, uh, from further up in the, in the district. So everything that, uh, that's the setup here was totally routine. The, uh, The air traffic control transmissions, they're all routine.

So it's the last few seconds where something goes horribly, horribly wrong, and that's what the investigators are going to be looking at. John, good morning. Given everything you know so well about aviation and understand about air traffic control and about this airport itself, what are your instincts telling you? We don't want to speculate what happened here, but equipment failure, pilot error, what all is in the mix here as you assess what happened?

Willie, it's early and we've got a lot more questions than we have answers. It appears from the radar tracks that I've seen that the jet is on a completely normal profile. So that leaves question about was the military helicopter too far west? Were they at the right altitude? Those are questions that are unanswered at this point. So the investigators are going to have to look at this very carefully and they're going to dissect every second that led up to this collision. But right now,

as to speculate on possible cause, it's too early. As you look at what happened here, I think to the layman again, watching, wondering, is it normal, is it typical for military aircraft to cross and fly through a flight pattern of a commercial airplane that's landing at a heavily traveled airport? Did that look unusual to you at all, or is that just the nature of Washington and that airport? A little bit of both. It is routine to have helicopters below you as you approach, particularly on that circle

to land or runway 33. But they're typically on the east side of the east bank of the river. And at this point, it's still unclear exactly where that helicopter was tracking. So I've seen countless numbers of helicopters, but they've typically been on that eastern bank of the Potomac River. And that gives you the separation. So there's a lot of question that could the RJ crew have even seen the helicopter? We don't know.

The RJ or the helicopter crew apparently acknowledges that they see the RJ. So those are things that we're going to have to look at and the investigators are going to look at in depth. And John, Willie had asked you if it was unusual for a helicopter to pass under the flight path of a commercial jet on its final approach. And you said it does happen, but at 300 feet, at 400 feet, that's what seems so unusual to me that they wouldn't go, you know, half a mile further up the Potomac before cutting across. The jet is on a descent profile.

There is an instrument approach to that runway. And if you watch the jet is on a routine, um, descent profile as to the, the altitude and the exact flight path of the helicopter, that's a little less certain at this point. So we're going to have to wait and see where the helicopter was and its altitude. They have a limited altitude, which I believe is 200 feet to come down the river. But were they at that altitude?

And that's things that the investigators are going to look at. But it is not uncommon to see a military helicopter below you as you approach that runway. So I'm wondering, sir, and again, I'm just reviewing for viewers who are just waking up this morning. Flight 5342, passenger jet coming into Reagan National Airport from Wichita, Kansas, collided midair with an Army helicopter plummeting into the Potomac River, the crash at DCA at 9 p.m. last night, happening at one of the most tightly monitored and busiest airspaces. And John, I'd love to ask you just about congestion in the area, and if you know or have gathered any information about that increasing of light? Washington Reagan National has always been a congested airport.

There's a lot of airplanes that move in and out of a small geographic place. It is a place where professional pilots operate in and out of there. Most of us know the routine and you expect certain things in and out of Reagan National. And it works. It works very well. The air traffic controllers are some of the best in the world. So exactly what happened here, we don't yet know.

And the helicopter crew, they're also specially qualified to fly this particular route. So you have very highly qualified pilots, you have very highly qualified air traffic controllers. Now the question is, what occurred last night that led to this tragedy? David Ignatius. So just to speak to the question of the increasing congestion at National Airport, which every traveler who goes through there sees. One reason for it is that members of Congress like this airport very close to where they

live and work and keep demanding more slots to go to more different places around the country where their home districts are. It's been a long-running problem for Reagan National to be able to accommodate congressional demand for flights. They don't want to go all the way out to Dulles, which is about twice as far. They want to go to this airport. It's not to say it has anything to do with this crash, but it's part of why the airport is so crowded.

And so congested. Reagan National has always been a challenge geographically because it's so constrained by the river and it is close into the city. There is increased demand not only by Congress, but by passengers. People like this runway. I mean, I've flown in and out of there countless times, both as a pilot and as a passenger. The convenience factor is great and they do a good job managing the traffic. So they have been able to expand to now where there are nonstop flights to the West Coast and the demand has been there. So part of this is the airport responding to the commercial demands that the passengers have made and that it makes perfect sense.

And John, obviously this airport deals with more military traffic, aircraft traffic, than most. My question to you, a technical one, are there two different communication systems here? Does the civilian air traffic control operate differently than what the military helicopters will be listening to? We know that it seems that the air traffic controller did communicate with that helicopter, but are there communication issues? Talk to us about other different levels.

Are there moments of confusion possible? The jet, the regional jet on the American flight is operating on a VHF radio, very high frequency radio. The military is very likely using a UHF or ultra-high frequency. So the pilots, both pilots can hear what the air traffic controller says, but they may not be able to hear what each other says. So this is a routine concern when you have civilian and military aircraft operating in the same airspace.

So the military uses UHF radios, and the civilian world uses VHF. Okay, we're awaiting a news conference at 7 to 30 a.m. Eastern time. Again, American Eagle flight 5342, coming in from Wichita, Kansas, carrying 60 passengers and four crew members colliding into an Army Black Hawk helicopter with three

people on board. There is a search and rescue operation underway, as you can see on your screen. They have pulled over a dozen bodies out of the Potomac River. We do have information from audio that has come in, communication between air traffic control and both flights. Controllers cleared the jet to land at a different runway, according to the AP, a shorter runway, and they tracked it as it was approaching the runway. But shortly before the crash, the air traffic controller can be heard asking the helicopter if they see the plane. I'm wondering, sir, as an

aviation expert, what this communication between air traffic control, they seem to see what's going on here. And it appears the helicopter in their second non-response, it was too late for them to make a last minute change. This is something that the investigators are going to look at. It would be routine for air traffic control to ask the helicopter, do you see the RJ and to pass behind it? And if that's the case, then it's the responsibility of the helicopter to either pass behind the RJ or to say, we don't see them. And these are questions that the investigators are going to look at.

But it is routine for the airplane, the jet to be circling to land on the shorter runway. It helps them move traffic faster and it's done countless times every day. And then for the military traffic to be at or below 200 feet and their ground track is going to be one of the things they look at. The vantage point of the air traffic controller is they can see and they have radar, they can see the ground track and to see if they're going to get close, they issue instructions just as they did to do you, can you maintain

visual separation from the RJ and pass behind it. All right, NBC News aviation analyst John Cox, thank you so much. We'll be tracking this and of course, we go to break, upon landing a passenger jet collided midair with an Army helicopter plunging both aircraft into the Potomac River and according to WRC, they have two sources saying now that more than 30 bodies have been pulled out of the Potomac River. We're going to take a quick 90-second break from this live coverage. We'll continue to follow the very latest on this search operation in the

Potomac River, including how freezing temperatures are impacting efforts. We'll be right back with more breaking news. Live picture of Washington's Reagan National Airport at 624 in the morning as we continue to follow the latest on what is a search and rescue effort underway this morning after a commercial jet collided midair with a military helicopter near Reagan National last night. Two aircraft crashing into the Potomac River where now we can report more than 30 bodies have been recovered so far. That's according to our affiliate NBC, Washington

US figure skating athletes were among the 60 passengers and four crew members aboard the American Airlines flight The army meanwhile has confirmed three people were aboard the Black Hawk helicopter Involved in that collision again. Those are live pictures at 625. Of first responders, hundreds of them looking and hoping to find people alive in those waters. Let's go over to meteorologist Angie Lastman for a look at how cold it is in that water, how weather may have impacted what happened last night. Angie, what are you seeing?

Yeah, Willie, good morning to you. Of course, weather, one of the first things we look to with cause when we see situations like this. So let's start at the beginning when that crash happened. Here are the conditions. Notice those skies were clear. So we're not looking at any difficulty when it comes to visibility. That, of course, not going to be something that will likely come into play, but notice those winds northwest out of out of the northwest at 20 miles per

hour. Yesterday we did have quite gusty conditions and we had wind advisories in effect across this region, but those expired around six o'clock. So gusts maybe close to 30 miles per hour, not looking likely that this of course influenced that. As far as where we stand right now, we know that search and rescue efforts have been difficult when it comes to temperatures outside, when it comes to temperatures of the water. We essentially had a cold front work through yesterday that dropped those air temperatures and of course temperatures of the water, the Potomac right now, 36 degr temperatures like that, h

to set in anywhere from 5 being in that. The one th as a positive for search today, skies will remain going to see, of course, there. But as we get throu Willie and into tomorrow, next front come through, w rain, and into tomorrow, we're going to see this next

front come through. We'll likely see some rain and of course, we don't know how that will affect those search and rescue efforts. Yeah, Angie, you see 50 degrees yesterday at the time of this incident about 10 hours ago. You say that's a pretty warm day for late January in Washington, but it has been very cold. So, there's ice in the Potomac River. Yeah, and I mean again with a temperature of 36 degrees, water of course is not fluctuating as fast

as those air temperatures are behind these systems. So a consistent temperature, close to freezing, again, anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes in that water is going to be brutal. And we do see those temperatures falling here, only reaching basically the low 40s here as the day goes on, Willie. All right, Angie, last one.

We'll be back to you for more on the weather and how it may have impacted what happened last night. Angie, thanks so much and again you're looking at a live picture just before 6 30 in the morning where nearly 10 hours ago now a Blackhawk helicopter, the United States Army says three soldiers aboard on a training mission impacted clear skies warning as we heard a little bit earlier from air traffic control, impacted that American Airlines Flight 5342 on its final approach to land at Reagan National from Wichita, Kansas. Search and rescue efforts remain underway.

Our affiliate NBC Washington reporting more than 30 bodies now have been pulled from the Potomac River. Again, 67 people in total involved. 64 on the plane, 60 passengers, four crew members, and then the three soldiers aboard the Blackhawk helicopter. When we come right back, we're going to get a report from the Pentagon about what they're saying this morning about what may have happened. We'll be right back on Morning Joe. Welcome back.

It is 33 past the hour and we are covering some major breaking news here out of Washington, D.C., where upon landing a passenger jet collided midair with an Army helicopter and both aircraft plunged into the Potomac River. Flight 5342 coming in to Reagan National Airport from Wichita, Kansas had 30, let's see, at this point they are looking at a number of people on board. 60 people on board plus four crew members and the helicopter had three people on board. Now, this happened at nine o'clock last night, of course, at Reagan National Airport, one of the most tightly monitored and busiest airspaces in America. The passenger jet had 64 people on board, and the helicopter at this point with three

people on board, the massive search and rescue operation underway right now, we are told 30 bodies have been recovered from the Potomac River. We do know, according to the AP, that seconds before American Airlines Flight 5342 was about to land, controllers had asked if they could land on a shorter runway. They cleared the jet to do so and was tracking it as it approached. That's when they also tried to communicate with the helicopter shortly before the crash, confirming do they see the plane?

They got one confirmation but did not get a second answer. So we're following what happened there. We do have a comment from U.S. Figure Skating that several members of our skating community were on the crashed plane. These athletes, coaches, and family members were returning home from the National Development Camp held in conjunction with U.S. Figure Skating Championships in Wichita, Kansas. They call this an unspeakable tragedy

and hold the victims closely in our hearts. They will be closely monitoring the situation and release more information as they are working to get in touch with family members as well. and hold the victims closely in our hearts. They will be closely monitoring the situation and release more information as they are working to get in touch with family members as well. Very difficult conditions right now for the search and rescue operation. The Potomac River is frigid,

and they are facing those temperatures as they try and recover bodies and also pieces of the wreckage. Joining us now, NBC News national security correspondent Courtney Kuby with more. Courtney, what questions is this raising right now? Well, was that U.S. Army Blackhawk helicopter where it was supposed to be, flying at night so close to national airports, so close to this incoming and outgoing commercial airliners that were landing off and taking at such a busy airport and an extremely busy runway.

That's one of the biggest questions right now. So far, I've just been in touch with army officials. There is still no official status for those three US soldiers who were on board that UH-60 Army Black Hawk helicopter. Just for perspective, Mika, that would mean that there soldiers who were on board that UH-60 Army Black Hawk helicopter. Just for perspective, Mika, that would mean that there were no passengers on board. A Black Hawk like this would have a pilot, a co-pilot, and then a third person who's essentially like an observer. These are often frequently used as people movers, but it doesn't appear there were any

passengers, just the three crew members who were on board. But at this point, still no status change for how those crew members are. But as we have been watching this unfold all throughout the night, the situation is grim for both the passengers on board that commercial airliner and that US Army Black Hawk helicopter. A little bit about the helicopter and the unit. They were assigned to or attached to the 12th Aviation Battalion out of Davison Army Airfield at Fort Belvoir. And we've been looking at maps all throughout the morning and throughout the night about where exactly this crash occurred.

If you look at where the crash site is, just in the Potomac River, just east of Reagan National Airport. Well, if you were to pan over south, southwest, you would see Fort Belvoir. It's one of the biggest military installations in an area that has a lot of military bases, as you well know, Mika and Joe and Willie. Just on the other side of the Potomac from Reagan National Airport also joint base and Acastia bowling a large air base And then of course just north of Reagan Airport literally a stone's throw We have the Pentagon and Fort Meyer, which is co-located with with Arlington National Cemetery So there is a tremendous

amount of air traffic in a very congested airspace amount of air traffic in a very congested airspace. This aviation battalion is assigned to the Joint Task Force National Capital Region in the Military District of Washington. And why you guys may say, okay, why do those names sound familiar? Well, they have been very busy lately. The JTF, NCR, and the MDW, as they are frequently called, have been directly involved in the inauguration last week. They are the biggest military component support to that.

And they were directly involved in the funeral for Jimmy Carter earlier this month. So this is a unit, an aviation unit, and a military unit that is extremely busy in this area. That being said, because they are so, because of the high operational tempo for these troops in this area, they have very specific routes and corridors where they are known, where they are allowed to fly throughout

this area. It is an extremely restrictive airspace, and these troops know about those corridors. They know where they can and cannot fly. As I said, it's restricted. We are told that this was a routine training flight, but beyond that, we just don't know what was involved here. We did get a very late night tweet from the new Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth. He said that there would be an immediate investigation by the Army and the DOD, the Department of

Defense. That makes sense, frankly. That's something that we would expect. They have investigative arms because the reality is there are air traffic crashes and incidents. There are air accidents that occur throughout the military. This isn't even the first one this week. An F-35 crashed in Alaska earlier this week. Fortunately, the pilot was able to escape, to eject before that plane went down, that jet went down in a flame.

So this isn't even the first crash that we've seen this week. I got to tell you, Mika, you know, this is early in the Trump administration. This is going to be one of the first tests for the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, this Army helicopter crash. He was tweeting late into the night and we'll see exactly how the Pentagon under new leadership responds to this. At this point again, the army is not able to say the status of those three soldiers, but the situation sadly does not look very good. Mm-hmm. Yeah, if you're just waking up at 639 in Washington, that's a live picture of the Potomac

River where search and rescue operations are underway. 67 people, 64 aboard that American Airlines flight and three aboard the Black Hawk helicopter that Courtney has been describing to us went down in the river. More than 30 bodies, according to our affiliate NBC Washington, already have been recovered as that work continues. Courtney, we obviously want to be careful not to speculate here, but as you talk to your sources at the Pentagon, and I think aviation experts who watch that wonder, with clear skies, with the clear warnings, multiple warnings from air traffic control, how that helicopter could have collided with a commercial aircraft on its final approach into a known landing zone, what are some of the things you're hearing?

Is it a pilot error? Is it equipment? What all are they talking about? I think at this point, people are not saying with any kind of confidence what happened here. But if you look, as you were just saying, Willie, if you look at the facts, the details that are starting to emerge, why was this helicopter flying so close to a known busy runway where aircraft are landing and taking off literally

almost one per minute at Reagan National Airport? We keep talking about this, but we cannot stress enough about what an extremely busy and congested airspace that is. And also, because of that very reason, not just the commercial air traffic that goes in and out of there, but bowling air force base, Fort Meyer, aircraft are flying, taking off and landing out of those places. Fort Meyer doesn't have a runway, but they have helicopters that are taking off out of there.

Also, we have Quantico, Fort Belvoir. There are a lot of military aircraft, not to mention there's Coast Guard, there's MPD, the DC police, that also have an active air presence. So because of that reason and because of just the extremely close proximity to things like the White House, the Capitol, this is restricted airspace. Pilots who fly in here are well aware of it. They know where they can and cannot fly. That I think is one of the reasons that military officials who I was speaking with all night and early this morning are perplexed by how

this could happen. And especially when you see that video of the helicopter appearing to fly into that commercial airliner, there will be a lot of questions about how exactly that happened. Look, this was a nighttime flight and keep in mind that makes everything more complicated. Okay. A lot of what they are relying on here is literally their vision. There are instruments, of course, but a lot of it just has to do with vision. Nighttime is more difficult, but still, I think the biggest question that will be asked

today is, what was that helicopter doing there? And how did they not see that there was a steady stream of commercial airliners coming and going straight in the path of where they were flying? Yeah, Courtney, good morning. I mean, you're exactly right. That will be the question here. Can you talk to us a little bit about the aircraft

itself, the helicopter, how sophisticated this piece of equipment is, and what sort of warning systems and collision avoidance systems may have been on board that apparently yesterday did not seem to work or were not utilized? Yeah. They would have a lot of the same kind of basic equipment that we think of a civilian airliner in that it should have a flight data recorder, a black box that will hopefully be able to give us some sort of a sense of what was happening in those last moments before

this collision. It should also have collision avoidance systems. Now, we don't know exactly what was happening in that helicopter right before that collision. Again, with this nighttime video that we have seen, there is no obvious apparent view that the helicopter is weaving, is dipping up and down, nothing like that that would be an obvious indicator that it was experiencing some sort of technical difficulty. Again, we don't want to speculate, as you said, but there should be warning systems that would give them a sense of something that could be coming.

And again, as I was saying earlier, there's the pilot, there's the co-pilot, and then there's the observer. So there are eyes. If nothing else, if the equipment fails, there are eyes that would be able to see this aircraft coming in. Yes, it was nighttime, but there would be a lot of lights. You can even see, you know, Reagan National Airport. There's just the basic lights that are aligned along the runway there, and there are so many

lights along the Potomac there. So it doesn't, at this point, there's not an obvious reason for why the pilots and the crew would not have been able to see this airliner coming in. There are blind spots, okay, and we have to remember that. So depending on the altitude that this helicopter was coming in, it is possible that there was a blind spot that would have existed, but that would have been a relatively short window. So again, these are all the questions. I will say, I expect that we will have answers to some of these questions, at least preliminary answers to these questions, as early as today.

We won't have, obviously, a final investigation. That could be weeks and months. But I think we'll have answers to some of these questions relatively quickly today. NBC's Courtney Hooby, thank you very much. And David Ignatius, Courtney was talking about just how congested the area is, but also this airspace being one of the most busiest and congested. And the confluence of public travel with military travel landings taking off, the White House, the Pentagon, major landmarks nearby.

There are a lot of challenges here with different streams of aircraft coming in. Your thoughts on that? So, it's an extraordinarily congested area with these interpenetrating streams of traffic. I'm struck as I listen to this morning's initial discussion of this tragedy, how dependent we are on expertise to make these complex systems work. Think about all the traffic over this airport, but multiply that by all the big airports in America. And when tragedy happens, we turn immediately to this narrow group of people who really

know how these systems work, will depend on them in the coming hours to begin to explain what happened. But we hang on a more slender thread than we sometimes realize in terms of technical expertise in these very crowded, difficult situations. Yeah, we are arranging a press conference, hopefully. We'll get more information at 730 a.m. Eastern time. The sun will be up. And of course, this massive search and rescue operation is underway right now in the frigid Potomac River.

We're going to go back live to the scene along the Potomac, where of course a passenger plane plunged into the river after colliding with a military helicopter. As of now, we are told 30 bodies have been pulled from the river and they are looking for more. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. Welcome back. At 52 past the hour, we are covering breaking news for you. Search and rescue operations are now underway after an American Airlines passenger

flight collided midair with an Army helicopter near Reagan National Airport. Video captured by EarthCam shows the moment of the collision over the Potomac River. It happened just before 9 p.m. Eastern Time. Two sources tell NBC Washington that at least 30 bodies have been recovered from the river. The plane departed from Wichita, Kansas, an American Airlines flight with 60 passengers and four crew members on board. Officials say the Black Hawk helicopter, which is part of the 12th Aviation Battalion, had three soldiers on board. An Army official tells NBC News they were on a training flight from Fort Belvoir. We're looking at live pictures right now of the search operation underway. We also have audio that appears to show the moment air traffic controllers witnessed the crash and relayed the information to other pilots.

Listen. If you want to go back to the gate, I would suggest you guys coordinate with companies and let me know where you want to go. All right, we'll let the company talk to them right now. Yeah, we witnessed the whole thing. All right, U.S. Figure Skating confirmed several of its members were on board the American Airlines flight returning home from the National Development Camp held in conjunction with the skating championships in Wichita. Overnight Republican Senator Jerry Moran of Kansas addressed the tragedy. The circumstance I would describe is that I know that flight.

I've flown it many times myself. I lobbied American Airlines to begin having a direct nonstop flight service to DCA. That flight has been in existence about a year. And it is certainly true that in Kansas and in Wichita in particular, we're going to know people who are on this flight, know their family members, know somebody. And again, we are waiting a news conference that is set to happen in about 35 minutes. We'll take that live. Reagan National Airport is set to remain closed until at least 11 o'clock this morning.

Willie. Let's bring in the conversation former NTSB Senior Air Safety Investigator, Greg Fythe. Greg, good morning. So you've digested all the information available to us publicly, talked to people you know in the aviation industry. What do you make of what we've seen as the sun begins to peak up over the Potomac this morning? Well, I think as the night has gone on and new information seems to be coming out in bits and pieces, I think now that daylight has sprung,

of course, there'll be a better understanding of the exact wreckage, what it looks like, what difficulties the NTSB is going to have in trying to remove the aircraft, both aircraft, from the river. It will be a process. There still is this search and rescue operation going on. That has to take precedence. So I think from that standpoint, the board will

have a better understanding of what's going to be needed to recover the wreckage so that they can begin reconstructing the event physically with both aircraft to determine exactly where the helicopter struck the regional jet. I think that's going to be one part of it. And then of course, they're still working on getting additional information from the traffic control tower, the air traffic control tower. And they're going to be wanting to talk to air traffic controllers, get the radar data, ADSB or surveillance radar data, and then of course their primary goal is to get

cockpit voice recorder, flight data recorder from the regional jet and the the MDR or the maintenance data recorder, basically a cockpit voice recorder, flight data recorder from the military aircraft. So Greg, from the video that we've been showing this morning, a direct impact of that Blackhawk helicopter into the regional jet from the air traffic control communications that we've heard that have been made public, what are the initial questions you would have as an investigator? I think there are quite a few questions. If you look at the video and really examine it and then of course marry up the air traffic

control discussion that the controller was having with the military crew and getting them to actually identify, do you see the regional jet? We've seen this in the past, Willie, where there has been a misidentification by a flight crew. It happened with the PSA 727 in San Diego, where there were a number of similar airplanes in the air, the small training aircraft. They were asked, the crew was asked,

do you see the Cessna 172? The crew reported affirmatively, unfortunately, they apparently had identified the incorrect airplane and struck a Cessna 172. That's going to be a question here, given the saturation, the number of aircraft that were moving at the time in and out of Reagan National. Did this particular flight crew,

the military flight crew identify the regional jet that they were supposed to be looking for or did they misidentify it? Air traffic controllers, were they monitoring visually that aircraft as it was inbound, that is the regional jet, and were they looking at it on radar? Was it identified as a primary target or a tagged target? That is the military aircraft. Did it

have a return? Typical of what you would see with this commercial airliner where you identify the flight number, you have a ground speed, you have an altitude. We know based on some data that's floating around out there, nothing's real official, that the aircraft was at about 400 feet when the collision occurred. The question is were they supposed to be that high? Those low-level helicopter flight routes down there have a ceiling that is a maximum altitude and typically it's about 200 feet just to keep them out of the airspace for these arriving and departing aircraft. So, Greg, obviously we're just over 10 hours since that collision in both aircraft

going into the Potomac, hoping against hope to find survivors in that water that we hear is about 36 degrees this morning. So as you look at these images, as you watch these first responders do their work, what is now in motion from the NTSB's perspective? What are they doing right now to begin to get to the bottom of this? Well, again, they would be watching, of course, the recovery, search and rescue recovery operation because as they recover victims and still search for the possibility of survivors, they're going to be looking at the wreckage that is pulled up, that is retrieved out of the water.

That's considered to be volatile evidence because as you start manipulating the aircraft wreckage to recover victims, of course, you're distorting the wreckage. They want to try and keep it as intact as possible because when they do the reconstruction, Willie, they're going to be looking for transfer marks. That is marks that the helicopter would have made when it collided with the regional jet. So they want to be able to at least start documenting. At the same time, there's a parallel. The board is actually collecting radar data

and surveillance data. This is the ADS-B data that you've heard people talking about. It is very precise. It comes in at about one second. So you can reconstruct the flight path of both aircraft very easily with that amount of data. They're definitely going to want to talk to air traffic controllers. So they'll be setting that up. And then of course, they're going to be getting

information from the military. Purpose of the flight. Was this flight crew using night vision goggles, given the fact that this was a training flight, they had been flying possibly the shore purpose of the flight. Was this flight crew using night vision goggles given the fact that this was a training flight they had been flying possibly the shore line of the river and of course when you're using night vision goggles with that amount of light in the area of Reagan National Airport you get a blossoming effect. Where were those pilots looking? What were their military procedures as they transited that area? There's a lot of questions, but the investigators have already started to collect a lot of that data and I think as the day goes on and the NTSB starts providing briefings, we're going

to hear more detailed factual information. They're not going to come up with any kind of conclusions.