Morning Joe - Morning Joe 1/31/23

Episode Date: January 31, 2023

Grand jury convened in Trump hush money probe

Did you know about the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels? A flat denial from then President Trump back in 2018 when asked if he knew about hush money payments to Stormy Daniels. Remember that? Well, now that could come back to haunt him. His former attorney and fixer Michael Cohen says Trump can't hide from the paper trail, calling the new grand jury convened by the Manhattan D.A. his biggest legal threat yet. And there are many. Meanwhile, the notoriously litigious former president, he's suing legendary journalist Bob Woodward for 50 million dollars. We'll explain what that's all about. Plus, more fallout and firings in the aftermath of Tyreen Nichols' death. We'll go live to Memphis for the latest in that case.

And for the second time in three years, lawmakers on Capitol Hill are talking about police reform following a high profile murder case involving officers. We'll look at whether these discussions have a real chance at being successful. And President Joe Biden announces a major policy shift on covid in response to strong opposition from House Republicans. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Tuesday, January 31st. Joe will be back tomorrow, but you got Willie and me. And along with us, we have the host of Way Too Early, White House bureau chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire and Pulitzer Prize winning columnist at The Washington Post, Eugene Robinson and Willie, our top story, believe it or not, Stormy Daniels back in the news. Yeah, real flashback here as Donald Trump ramps up his latest run for the White House.

He's now facing another legal challenge. A grand jury has been convened in the case of hush money payments made to adult film star Stormy Daniels by Trump back in 2016. That is according to two sources familiar with the situation, confirming the development to NBC News, first reported by The New York Times. The Times reports Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg started presenting evidence to a grand jury yesterday, centering on a $130,000 payment to Daniels, a spokeswoman for the Manhattan D.A. and an attorney for the former president. Both declined comment to us on this matter. Former Trump attorney Michael Cohen, you'll remember, went to federal prison for his role in the hush money payments. He says he met with prosecutors in recent weeks and may be asked to appear before the grand jury. Donald will ultimately be held accountable for this stormy Daniel payment. This

investigation that was to be brought by Alvin Bragg's office, previously Cy Vance Jr., is the most detrimental to him, his freedom, his livelihood, his business, etc., because it's the easiest to prove. The checks are the checks. We know a lot. There's recordings. The first three-month payment was made by Donald Trump, and I gave those to the House Oversight Committee who posted them and so on.

And so he's not in the same position where he can deny or lie the way that he will in some of the other matters. Former President Trump issued a statement on his social media platform yesterday, responding to the reports of a grand jury calling it the continuation of a witch hunt against him. Trump has denied having an affair with Daniels, but he acknowledged he repaid Cohen the coincidental sum of one hundred thirty thousand dollars. Let's bring in lecturer in law at Columbia Law School, Caroline Polisi. She's a federal criminal defense attorney. Caroline, good to see you this morning. So it should be pointed out that Michael Cohen, perhaps not the best character at the center of your case. I'll let you correct me if I'm wrong there. He's convicted in this matter as well. But what is

the legal exposure at this point for Donald Trump? And are you surprised that that brag came to this point of a grand jury after seeming to have walked away from it not so long ago? That's exactly that. Right. I think everybody's asking the question, why now? As you noted, we're talking about conduct that occurred in 2016, 2017. Michael Cohen has already pleaded guilty to crimes of that conduct, served his prison time. Cy Vance, the former Manhattan District Attorney before Alvin Bragg, had opened a sprawling investigation, including these hush money payments, as well as some other financial crimes. And when Alvin Bragg took over, two of his top prosecutors actually resigned, one of whom, Mark Pomerantz, is coming out with a book next week about that. But they resigned

because they felt like Bragg did not have the appetite to move forward. He had abandoned his desire to prosecute Trump on an individual basis. Fast forward, Bragg now has two wins under his belt against Trump or criminal, criminal wins against Trump or and Allen Weisselberg, former CFO of Trump or maybe he has some more wind in his sails. You know, this case has been referred to as the zombie theory kicking around the Manhattan district attorney's office because it just won't die. But apparently it's been resurrected. It's coming back to life. So take us inside one of your entry level law classes and just explain what it means that this has moved to a grand jury phase. How significant is that? I'd say it's pretty significant. You know, the old saying goes, you can indict a ham sandwich. However, given the

political implications of this, this is likely a special grand jury seated. It's seated for longer than a regular grand jury in panel to look at more complex financial crimes. I don't think Ragg would impanel such a jury and present all this evidence if he weren't going to indict and if he didn't feel like he could get a win. Mika. So, Caroline, I'm just curious, have you ever seen and maybe the answer is yes. Have you ever seen an individual in history with so many different legal challenges weighing him down, whether it be to do with the finances of his own company, rape charges against him, the Georgia investigation, the big lie, the two, the January 6th investigation, special, I mean, this is, this is a pretty long list. So that's number one. I mean, how many legal challenges can one person face without

drowning in them? And number two, while this one seems like so far back in time, it seems smaller in scope. Could this lead to real consequences? That's right, Minka. And, you know, the question is, which one is going to stick? Heretofore, we thought maybe it was going to be the documents case. Well, that's now sort of been eviscerated. Right. Fannie Willis, of course, was a dark horse in the race. This one looks like it's sort of coming up. You're right that, you know, finance crimes of this nature are not sort of the crime of the century. Falsification of documents in New York is a low level offense. However, prosecutors can kick it up to a felony offense if they can show that the falsification of the records was done in the pursuit of violating a second New York state law, a second crime. And that law has really been

untested. It's akin to what Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to on a federal level in a campaign finance law violation. So the misdocumentation and, you know, giving a campaign contribution over the legal limit. So were that to happen, and we're obviously projecting a little bit here, but were there to be an indictment and that charge be leveled at for President Trump, what sort of penalty could be attached if we get a conviction? So if they can do both charges and it's kicked up from a misdemeanor to a felony charge, it is punishable by up to four years in prison. It doesn't need prison time, but he could go to jail for up to four years.

Gene, I want you to chime in on this because this is one of the things that I was trying to put into perspective as we talk about the danger of Donald Trump. And I mean, these are these are the incredible saga dramas of his presidency that have just blown past us. I mean, any other person would have gone down in the moment because it would have been just inappropriate. Why don't we start with that? Absolutely. I mean, these are the dramas of Donald Trump's life, right? I wonder if you put a random week in Donald Trump's life, you wouldn't find some prosecutable crime, paying hush money, fiddling the taxes, doing something. This is kind of business as usual for Donald Trump. I guess it does seem like this was a long time ago, Stormy Daniels,

and I realize there is legal jeopardy for the president here. If I were Donald Trump or his legal team, I think I'd probably be a little more focused on the Georgia potential prosecution execution, for trying to overturn the election and defraud the people of Georgia and take away their voice in the presidential election by finding 11,000 extra votes. I would be looking at the special counsel, who has a host of issues to look into. So, you know, this is the way it happens, I guess. Sometimes it's these little sleeper things or zombie cases that won't die. But I don't think this is this is I think Michael Cohen is wrong. I don't think this is the direst threat to Donald Trump. I think those other cases present much more of a threat to the former president.

Let's bring in one of the reporters who first broke this story, senior writer on the Metro staff of The New York Times, William K. Rochefort. William, thanks for being here this morning. We appreciate it. Talk us through a little bit about Alvin Bragg's thinking, according to your reporting, and what else he learned, perhaps, that led him to impanel this grand jury. Well, I can't really tell you about his thinking because not inside his head. But the investigation that he inherited from Cy Vance was focused on basically on Donald Trump's business practices on inflating the valuation of his assets. He chose not to go forward with that. They pursued the case against Trump's CFO, Allen Weisselberg, and the companies.

Weisselberg pled guilty. The companies were convicted. And now they find themselves going forward with this, with the hush money case. So it's a simpler case than the valuations. And it's something that, as was alluded to before, they've come back to and dropped a number of times along the way. So it's hard to say what the thinking is, but it certainly looks like they are moving closer to bringing charges. It's, you know, the next step. One of the flashback names we got in your piece was that of David Pecker, the former publisher of the National Enquirer, who was seen actually going into the building in Lower Manhattan where the grand jury is seated.

Remind our viewers, if you would, his role in all of this and why he might be an important player. Well, I think that Mr. Pecker and a few other people are witnesses because they're part of the arc of the story that precedes the actual payment of $130,000 to Stormy Daniels and then the subsequent reimbursement of that money and some additional funds to Michael Cohen. And Pecker was the publisher of the National Enquirer who had been engaged in what has come to be known, I guess, as catch and kill, meaning purchase or obtain stories and then negative stories about someone in this instance, obviously Donald Trump, and then actually not publish them. Hence the kill part. So that arc in advance of the payment includes Pecker, the editor of the National Enquirer,

Hope Hicks, some others who, and the chronology is laid out in the search warrant affidavits that a judge approved to actually search Michael Cohen's office back in, I guess that was April of 2018. But that chronology of calls and texts working towards figuring out who was going to pay and how is sort of that story arc that I referred to. So, John, the story that Michael Cohen played, too, was that he funneled the $130,000 from Donald Trump through Michael Cohen, through the campaign over to David Packer and the National Enquirer to pay off Stormy Daniels by her story and then not publish it. So it would go away right around the time of the election in 2016. Right. Trump then reimbursed Michael Cohen for $130,000, but never said as to what,

because if he is still denied having this affair in the first place. William Rashford, great to see you. Question, this has been such a source of frustration that there has not been a charge connected to Donald Trump. He was individual one all along when Cohen was indicted and convicted to the point, and it was alluded to earlier, two prosecutors even walked off the job because of it. What changed? And more than that, what are these prosecutors who were so frustrated before they left? What's their sense now that it's actually happening? Well, you know, I think I mean, I think you should you should interview them.

But but, you know, I think that this is a simpler case than the earlier case. You know, I would imagine that those prosecutors, you know, who worked hard to try and put together a case would like to see Donald Trump held accountable,, of who's, who's sort of running the show. Um, but, uh, you know, I think there's a lot of things that were going on behind the scenes. Um, it was an unusual, uh, circumstance where you had to transition from one DA to the other in the middle of a extremely complex and long-running investigation. So there's a whole lot of different factors at play. But as has often been the case in the past, these circumstances so often tend to benefit Mr. Trump, or so far.

So, Caroline, if you look at this case, Michael Cohen already pled guilty to this story that we're hearing. He served more than a year in prison, some more time in home confinement. So this was sort of, you know, adjudicated a little bit. So how do you see this playing out? Will you do you think we're going to see the indictment and perhaps the conviction eventually of someone besides Michael Cohen? Oh, I learned a long time ago not to make predictions. Where does it go from here anyway? Well, I would just note that the case is essentially made for them, at least with the documentation, right? In financial crimes, you know, money doesn't lie following the money here. And as you noted, what is sort of extraordinary about this case is that in the Southern District's prosecution of Michael Cohen, as you're right, as you noted, he sat there in open court and allocuted in his guilty plea that he did made these payments at the behest of individual one who people are colloquial calling colloquially calling an unindicted co-conspirator.

But you sort of have the paper trail there and a theory of the case that's already been, at least in a federal prosecution, it's already on paper. There's a check for $130,000 to Stormy Daniels. Donald Trump says, I was just giving Michael Cohen $130,000 for legal fees. It happened to be the same number. All right. Caroline Polisi, thank you very much. Always good to see you. New York Times senior writer William K. Rashbaum, thanks for bringing us your reporting as well. Appreciate it. Mika. All right. Thank you very

much. Two more Memphis police officers have been relieved of their duties in the wake of the deadly beating of Tyree Nichols. The Memphis Police Department announced two additional officers were initially placed on leave the day after the traffic stop. One is confirmed to be Officer Preston Hemphill. He was also part of the now defunct Scorpion unit and was the officer who used a taser on Nichols. The Memphis Police Department went on to answer questions yesterday about the seventh officer. Hemphill's lawyer confirmed video was on his body camera and he was the third to arrive at the initial stop, but says the officer never went to the second scene where the beating took place. Hemphill is cooperating with the investigation. The Memphis Fire Department has also fired more personnel as a result of the Nichols case to EMTs and a lieutenant, quote,

violated numerous MFD policies and protocols. The fire department statement said the investigation concluded that Nichols was only treated for the initial reason the EMTs were called, having been pepper sprayed and not the numerous other injuries he sustained. He died in the hospital three days later. An official cause of death has not been announced. NBC News attempts to reach out for comment were not answered. Joining us now from downtown Memphis, NBC News correspondent Ellison Barber with the very latest. Ellison. Hey, Mika, the Memphis Police Department is saying that all seven of these officers were relieved of duty the day after January 8th, the day after this detainment beating and death ultimately of Tyree Nichols took place on January 7th. But we didn't have

any information, at least publicly, about the two officers, number six and number seven, that we've just learned about in the last 24 hours. The sixth officer relieved of duty, Officer Preston Hempel. His attorney says that the first body camera footage that was released on Friday evening, that was from his camera. So in terms of why we're just getting these names right now, a spokesperson for the Memphis Police Department is saying that internal affairs investigators were prioritizing interviewing officers and witnesses related to the second scene. First, where the most egregious aspects of the incident occurred. They say that the five officers that we initially learned about who were terminated and are facing criminal charges are the officers that were directly involved at both the

first and second scene where Tyree Nichols was, and in their words, physically abused and suffered serious injuries. They went on to say this, quote, there are numerous charges still developing that are impending. We expect the next phase of personnel actions in the coming days. The fact that we don't know this seventh officer's name and that we've only just recently learned about the name and the circumstances surrounding the sixth officer is something that has frustrated community activists as well as the attorneys for Tyree Nichols' family. When we got the name of the officer yesterday, one of the first thing those attorneys representing the Nichols family said was, why didn't we know this name earlier? They say, we have been asking for transparency from the Memphis Police Department from the very beginning. And in their view, the fact that they did not know who this officer was and that he has not yet been fired shows to them, they say,

that the Memphis Police Department is not serious enough about being transparent as it relates to this case. Interestingly, the name of that sixth officer really started to surface on social media first. Local activists, as well as a local progressive outlet called the Tennessee Holler, they noticed the name of this sixth officer, Preston Hempel, in an early affidavit where it said in that that he had deployed his taser at the scene. They started pressuring, asking questions, posting about the sixth officer, wondering why they didn't know, at least from the public information from Memphis Police Department,

who this person was, why nothing to their knowledge had happened to this individual. And then ultimately, you had these series of events in the last 24 hours where the Memphis Police Department confirmed this sixth officer and then now acknowledged an unnamed seventh officer that has also been relieved of duty. What we still don't know about the sixth and seventh officers are whether or not they have been relieved with or without pay. That's something that at a vigil last night, we heard community activists talking about wanting that information, demanding that these officers as well be fired from their jobs. Mika. Yeah. All right, Alison, great report. Thank you very much.

The D.A. even said yesterday they expect more charges. I will say, Gene, it does seem that it must seem painfully slow to members of the community or to members of Tyree's family. But it appeared they were acting as quickly and as transparently as they could, immediately firing the officers, looking at the video. You know, these things do take time. You have to do it right. Finally, at least. And more charges are coming at a pretty fast clip. And it is frightening to find out that five wasn't the number of cops that were attacking Tyree that six, seven, eight. How many how many people does it take to to beat an unarmed, innocent man to death? That's going to be the question. And you're writing about this. And it's just policing overall needs to be done with the community, not to it. Yeah, that's absolutely right. And this was certainly done to Tyree Nichols.

This is outrageous when you think that, yes, we don't know how many officers ganged up on and brutalized and ultimately killed this man who was pulled over in a traffic stop. This latest news about the officers who were at the first, at the initial scene, who have been relieved of duty, just tells us how rotten, how wrong this entire episode was from the beginning. And we still don't know exactly what it was that Tyree Nichols allegedly did that caused them to pull him over in the first place. We have no idea. I mean, but it certainly wasn't anything that warranted the kind of treatment he got. There's nothing that warrants this kind of treatment. There's something really rotten, not just in the Scorpion unit, I think, which has now been being disbanded, but something rotten in the Memphis Police Department that we're going to have to get to the bottom of,

that I hope federal officials, the Justice Department is looking at. I think, you know, there could be a pattern and practice sort of action by justice involved here. Of course, there has to be an investigation. But but if this is the way the Memphis Police Department deals with the citizens it's supposed to protect, then this is rotten to the core. And there needs to be dramatic and wholesale reform. Well, as this case plays out, a delegation of White House officials will attend Tyree Nichols' funeral tomorrow. Top aides Keisha Lance Bottoms, Mitch Landrieu, Tara Murray and Erica Lowe are confirmed to

represent the administration there. NBC News also has learned the parents of Tyree Nichols have been invited to attend President Biden's State of the Union address next Tuesday. Democratic Congressman and Congressional Black Caucus Chair Stephen Horsford of Nevada says Nichols' parents accepted his invitation. Also invited, Brandon Say, he is the man who disarmed the Monterey Park shooter at a dance hall in California just last week, just minutes after the gunman killed 11 people and injured at least nine more at another dance hall. Democratic Congresswoman Judy Chu, who represents the district where the mass shooting took place,

says she invited Say and an hour later, President Biden himself asked Say to be his guest. Still ahead here on Morning Joe, former President Trump files a new lawsuit against Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Bob Woodward. We'll take a look at that case and whether there's any merit to it. Plus, many Republicans want Trump to disappear from politics. They'll tell you that privately, some publicly nowadays. But one of our guests this morning argues Republicans main strategy appears to be hope that he goes away. Also ahead, the Biden administration signaling a new chapter in the government's coronavirus pandemic response. And later this morning, actors Natasha Lyonne and

Benjamin Bratt join us with a look at their new Peacock series, Poker Face. We'll watch you in the morning, Joe. We'll be right back. Just about half past the hour, a live look at the White House. The lights are on, but the sun has yet to come up over Washington. Good morning, everyone. President Biden says his administration will end the national emergencies that have been declared for COVID-19. He'll do so on May 11th, more than three years after they were enacted. The announcement comes after the White House expressed strong opposition to House Republicans' plans aiming to immediately end the emergency declarations. According to the administration, the abrupt end to the emergencies

would, quote, create wide-ranging chaos and uncertainty throughout the health care system. This comes as Congress has failed for months to pass a White House request for an additional twenty two point five billion dollars in covid response funding. Meanwhile, the U.S. government may have issued more than five billion dollars in potentially fraudulent pandemic related loans. That's according to the federal watchdog overseeing coronavirus relief spending. The Pandemic Response Accountability Committee says more than 69,000 questionable social security numbers may have been used in the successful federal emergency loan applications. The suspected applications targeted two of the government's most generous emergency initiatives, the Paycheck Protection Program and the Economic Injury Disaster Loan. The announcement comes as the Republican Controlled House Committee and Oversight and Accountability is set to hold its first public hearing tomorrow,

quote, to investigate rampant waste of taxpayer dollars in covid relief programs. And really, there's a lot of folks who took advantage of those programs. Yeah, that's going to be a big, sprawling investigation. We'll keep an eye on it. Some news from the world of sports that helps explain the NFC championship game on Sunday. 49ers quarterback Brock Purdy reportedly has a torn ligament in his throwing elbow. The rookie injured on the very first drive of Sunday's NFC Championship game loss to the Philadelphia Eagles. He's expected to be sidelined for at least six months,

possibly into the beginning of next season, depending on whether he needs surgery to repair or even to reconstruct that injured elbow. The latest quarterback injury raises more uncertainty for San Francisco at the position. You remember the Niners' Week 1 starter Trey Lance went down with with a season ending ankle injury in week two that required follow-up surgery last month. Jimmy Garoppolo replaced Lance but broke his foot in week 13. He'll be a free agent in March. Purdy and Lance right now the only quarterbacks the 49ers have under contracts next season. So John we were just talking it was just a shame because that's a good 49ers team.

And that game effectively was over when Purdy gets injured on the first drive. Josh Johnson, who was the fourth quarterback, I guess, if you go through the list we just laid out, came in and tried to get something done, but they weren't going to beat the Eagles. No, the 49ers, the second straight NFC Championship game loss. They were a lot of people's pick to win the Super Bowl. Brock Purdy, such a wonderful story. The last pick of last year's draft, Mr. Irrelevant, and had been undefeated to this point. And he was hit. He was clearly injured. They brought in Josh Johnson, who then got injured

himself. And then Purdy had to come in and he couldn't throw the ball. He had to hand it off every time. And it was truly a miserable game. A lot of drama in the AFC game, but truly a miserable NFC game. It's just a shame. And it's called the questions that the NFL team should have three active quarterbacks on the roster for playoff games. So a situation like that is prevented. But Willie, I will give you a name here, a prediction. Go on record right now. You're a week one starting quarterback in the San Francisco 49ers next year. Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr. It's definitely on the board. He's a hometown guy for the 49ers. He grew up a season ticket holder. There have been rumors he was looking at them last year. One season, finish his career there. You let Purdy or Lance learn under him for a year. Go from there. Brady to the 49ers.

You heard it here. I've been hearing a little bit of that in the last couple of days myself. From texts from me, mostly. Yes, from you and from some others, too. We'll see. But it makes a lot of sense if he's going to play another year. All right. Coming up next, as we approach one year of Russia's war in Ukraine, acclaimed filmmaker Michael Kirk joins us with his new documentary investigating Vladimir Putin's clashes with five American presidents. Plus, our next guest introduces us to the man who helped George Santos win a seat in Congress. Morning Joe's coming right back. I'm sorry. I have spoken to constituents largely, and I've been fielding calls and answers this whole time. Are any of them concerned about any of the accusations that have come out in the media? You know, the media, there's one good thing is, is you guys like blowing stories that are not there up.

And you also use word salads to make sure you confuse the constituency of the American people. Irony is dead. George Santos accusing others of word salad. That was Republican Congressman George Santos blaming the media for the string of lies he's told about his education, his resume, his religious background and his family, some of which he has confessed to. New polling this morning from Newsday and Siena College shows 78 percent of voters from Congressman Santos's district want him to resign from office. Seventy 78 percent. That includes 89 percent of Democrats, 72 percent of independents. And yes, 71 percent of Republicans want him gone.

Joining us now, editor at The New Yorker, Zach Helfand. His latest piece is titled Meet the Man Who Brought You George Santos. Zach, it's great to have you on this morning. So many people are wondering how this happened. How did this guy get elected? And a big part of the story is a guy named Chris Grant. Who is he? Chris Grant is the operative that was the general consultant for the campaign. So he kind of helped run the campaign, guided the campaign in many ways. And in many ways helped George Santos actually win. He runs a consultancy called Big Dog Strategies. So he consults on, last cycle was 100, maybe a little bit more than 100 Republican campaigns. But he was the lead operative, kind of the Svengali for about

eight of them. And he was the guy who took over George Santos's campaign after the previous consultants quit. So we've had all this reporting that even people inside the campaign were aware of George Santos's lies. And some of them even suggested he drop out of the race because it was going to be ugly when they were revealed. That was not the strategy, I take it, of Chris Grant. How did he approach this campaign? Well, so there's still an open question of how much they knew. There was this opposition research panel that they convened and they have this packet of opposition research. We don't know exactly how much they knew. But his strategy, essentially, was to run on the issues. If you look at George Santos, he gave a couple of speeches on the floor of Congress now. He's not very exciting, other than all the fantastical lies.

You take that away, and there's a lot to take away. But if you take it away, he's a little bit dull. I think in some ways that helped. They ran on the issues. They ran on inflation. They ran on crime. And that was basically it. And in a race when maybe a lot of voters weren't paying a ton of attention, it wasn't a presidential year, that was enough. He won by eight points. So it wasn't like he just squeaked by. So this Chris Grant, co-founder of Big Dog Strategies, how did he and Santos get linked up? And Grant, you mentioned he's had a wide resume, a lot of other candidates. Have there been any others

that have had any similar embellishments or even in the ballpark of what were Santos? But is this a pattern we're seeing? I wouldn't say it's necessarily a pattern. There are a lot of candidates that he represents, and they're kind of in that world. So, you need a political operative, you go to someone like Big Doug. It's a name that people know because he's worked on campaigns, he's had a pretty good track record. There was another candidate of his, Steve Watkins, who was kind of like a proto-Santos. Not quite as imaginative, maybe, but he won a race in Kansas for Congress. It later emerged that he had embellished parts of his story. He said that he was a hero on Mount Everest. He saved people after the earthquake there.

Unlike Santos, he was actually close to Mount Everest, close to base camp. He didn't save anyone. It was unclear if he actually lived in the district. He had some property in Alaska. It was unclear if he had property in Kansas. He listed his address as a UPS store. But this is, I think when you're a political operative, you don't always get to choose your candidates. And the question that interested me is, when do you say no?

Do you cut bait? And the answer for him was, no, you stay the course and try to win. And, Gene, obviously, one of the lessons so many of these candidates have learned from Donald Trump is when there's scandal out there, when there are lies, just put your head down and plow through them. Exactly. That's what Trump did. And he's still standing, although we don't know for how long, but he's still standing. Zach, my question is whether Santos' Svengali knew anything, according to your reporting, about the money that went into the campaign, this phantom $700,000 that was lent by Santos, and it was not lent by Santos, apparently. Where was the money coming from, and what was his window on that or involvement in that? That's a big question. I don't know for sure. What we do know is that when you're a general consultant for a campaign,

one of the things you're overseeing is the budget. Maybe the most important thing that you're overseeing is the budget. On the other campaign, they decided their budget did not include enough money for really thorough opposition research. So you could see how important managing that money is. So for Chris Grant, did he know where the money was coming from? That's unclear. But we do know that he was one of the people in charge of determining the money, allocating the money, planning for what money was coming in. The piece is titled Meet the Man Who Brought You George Santos. Worth your read at the New Yorker editor, Zach Helfand. Zach, great to see you. Thanks so much. Thanks for

having me on. Still ahead, we'll take a look at some of the front page headlines in newspapers across the country this morning. Plus, we'll be joined by a former prosecutor who worked for the Southern District of New York for more insight on the special grand jury just convened in the Trump hush money case. Morning Joe's coming right back. Coming in with a live look at New York on a rainy, cloudy Tuesday morning. Welcome back to Morning Joe. It is 48 past the hour. It's time now to take a look at the morning papers, see what's making headlines across the country. The Ledger Inquirer leads with Georgia prosecutors indicating they will likely seek criminal charges against former President Donald Trump and his allies.

It's all part of an election subversion investigation. The Fulton County District Attorney is trying to block the release of a special grand jury report, arguing a decision is coming soon and that publicizing the report could jeopardize the rights of, quote, future defendants. In Mississippi, the Sun-Herald reports abortion activists are trying to stop a lawsuit filed by an out-of-state organization. At issue is the state's trigger law that banned most abortions after Roe v. Wade was overturned last summer. A group of anti-abortion physicians say that law may not be able to take effect unless a 1998 high court ruling that recognized the right to abortion under the Mississippi Constitution is also overturned. Abortion activists say the organization has, quote, no practical stake in this case.

And the Republican Herald in Pennsylvania has a front page feature on the amount of time students lost during the height of the pandemic. A new global analysis shows children missed about a third of the school year, leading to learning deficits. That time has still not been made up. Researchers believe this has worsened existing racial and wealth disparities, not to mention, adding on here myself, the social issues and kids coming out of the pandemic still really recovering from being in isolation. And coming up, former President Trump doubles down on siding with Vladimir Putin over intelligence agencies. We'll tell you what he said this time, plus a preview of President Biden's trip today to New York City, where he will tout funding for two new train tunnels connecting Manhattan and New Jersey.

Morning Joe will be right back. Ready for a real spirited contest. Now, why Trump? Now, you mentioned like DeSantis. If you try to tell me that Ron DeSantis is not a good governor in Florida, I'm not going to listen to you. If you try to tell me Mike Pompeo is not qualified to be president, I'm not going to listen to you because I think he is. I am for Trump, not because of the flaws of anybody else. I'm for Donald Trump because I know what I'm going to get.

We need somebody that on day one can get this country back on track, that can secure our border and bring order out of chaos. Somebody the Russians and the Chinese fear. Somebody that can take the fight to the terrorists. The Abraham Accords, the result of Donald Trump impressing the Arabs and the Israelis. He is the best solution to the problems we face, not because of the flaws of others, but because what I know he can do. And I'm telling your listeners right now, when you hear I like Trump policies, but I'm ready for somebody new. There are no Trump policies without Donald Trump. Senator Lindsey Graham saying he's all in on former President Donald Trump in 2024 because

you know what you're going to get. And I think that's the point, Lindsey. You do know what you're going to get. And I mean, you can try and make the list look positive, but I would add to it, cozying up to Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong-un, a obsession with fascists, with dictators, with strongmen. Oh, someone who would, we would get someone who would actually try and shake down a foreign leader for dirt on a political rival. Not at all a danger to our national security at all. We'd get someone who really understands the optics of being an empathetic president. He would throw paper towels at hurricane victims. And I don't even remember what was on the back of Melania's jacket when she went to the border to, quote, visit with migrants. But it kind of summed

up the entire Trump presidency, let alone Jonathan Lemire, author of The Big Lie, all the different legal challenges this former president appears to be running from as he campaigns to be president again. Yeah, there's a lot that he's facing right now. Earlier, we were debating, we were discussing what was happening in New York. We know Georgia as well looms. There's the investigation in January 6th and of course the classified documents. The former president yesterday also did something that was sort of unexpected and out of the blue where he defended his infamous comments in 2018 where at the Helsinki summit, a third rate reporter per what Donald Trump wrote yesterday.

A third-rate reporter. I've always fancied myself a second-rate reporter. That's where you are. So, you know, this is a little bit tough to hear from the former president, but I'll do my best. Yes, this was the summit with Helsinki. I asked the then-president, who he trusted over the matters of 2016 election interference, the U.S. intelligence agencies, who say Russia interfered,

or Vladimir Putin, who claims they didn't at the time he sided with Moscow and yesterday, seemingly out of the blue, he doubled down on that and suggested that the intelligence agencies and the FBI were all corrupt and therefore he was better off in trusting Vladimir Putin. He deemed me a third rate reporter and he deemed the intelligence community low life. And even, John, in this new context, think about it. Since that since you asked that question, Helsinki, Vladimir Putin has launched a war killing civilians in Ukraine. Won't back down. And he's still Donald Trump says I choose Putin over the intelligence agencies. Mike Barnicle, as we listen to Lindsey Graham there, I just like to repeat a quote from January the 6th, 2021.

Senator Graham on the floor of the Senate, quote, All I can say is count me out. Enough is enough. He was walking away from Donald Trump that day. If Lindsey Graham ever sat down with a shrink for 15 minutes, a shrink would put him in handcuffs and keep him there for 15 years. I mean, he has such a phobia about strong men. Yeah. John McCain attaching himself to John McCain when he was alive and now attaching himself for life, apparently, to Donald Trump. He is a sad man. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm just I want to bring U.S. special correspondent for BBC News, Katty Kay, because there's more news about Donald Trump. And I mean, I just have to say for Republicans choosing their nominee, you got so many different legal angles pointing directly at Donald Trump. There's Georgia. There's a rape lawsuit against Donald Trump. Now there's Stormy Daniels. I mean, really? Don't you think the Republicans would want someone like a fresh face who isn't completely overwhelmed with legal drama. And by the way, as he ramps up, caddy, his latest run for the White House, he's now facing this Stormy Daniels situation. A grand jury has been convened

in the case of hush money payments made out to adult film star Stormy Daniels by Trump back in 2016. That's according to two sources familiar with the situation, confirming the development to NBC News and first reported by The New York Times. The Times reports Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg started presenting evidence to a grand jury yesterday centering on that $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels. A spokeswoman for the Manhattan D.A. and an attorney for the former

president both declined to comment on the matter. Former President Trump himself issued a statement on his social media platform yesterday after talking about Jonathan Lemire. He also responded to the reports of the grand jury, calling it a continuation of the witch hunt against him. Trump has denied having an affair with Daniels, but he acknowledged that he did repay Michael Cohen $130,000. So we're back where it all began, Katty Kay. How's this looking for the United States of America

if this guy's our nominee? Yeah, I guess everyone's having PTSD going back to the stormy Daniels days. And you're right. I mean, the thing about Donald Trump is that it's almost impossible to keep track of all of the different legal suits that he's potentially facing. You just think you've got a handle on them. And then we go back and an old one is resurrected. And that seems to be at the forefront again. It still seems to me that the Mar-a-Lago one would be the clearest case for prosecutors. Yes, it's been muddied by the documents found in Joe Biden's possession and also in Mike Pence's

possession. But the legal facts of that Mar-a-Lago case seem pretty clear, according to the prosecutors that I speak to. I thought your conversation with Caroline Polisi earlier in the show was interesting about Stormy Daniels and not quite knowing where this leads after Michael Cohen has already served his time, but that it's something that they are still looking at. Talking to Republicans in this country and the New York Times reporting on this, we're going to talk about later. It's clear that there are very many Republicans in positions of influence who would much rather anyone than Donald Trump, precisely because of all this drama. What did we say when we came out of the Trump presidency in 2020, that the country was exhausted? I remember Joe saying it frequently on the program.

I remember you saying it, Mika, that the country was exhausted. And it's all this drama and part of the exhaustion of these legal suits. But you still have the system where if Donald Trump were to manage to maintain 30% of the Republican primary voters who are continuously loyal to him, and there were five or six other candidates, he could potentially split that remaining 70% of the vote and end up just as he did in 2016 with the nomination. I don't think that's impossible. You just have to look at the way the system works. And if there are enough other candidates there, it's potentially possible for him to do it again, because as I found traveling

around the country, his supporters, whatever the lawsuits, however many lawsuits there are, whatever the findings of the January 6th investigation, they are still sticking by him.