Morning Joe - Morning Joe 2/2/23

Episode Date: February 2, 2023

Nikki Haley set to make formal announcement on running for president

This is pitiful. A thousand people freezing their butts off, waiting to worship a rat. What a hype. Sounded like they used to mean something in this town. They used to pull the hog out and they used to eat it. You're hypocrites, all of you. You got a problem with what I'm saying, Larry? Untie your tongue and you come out here and talk, huh?

Am I upsetting you, princess? You know, you want a prediction about the weather. You're asking the wrong film. I'll give you a winter prediction. It's going to be cold, it's going to be gray, and it's going to last you for the rest of your life. Yes. And good morning to you. It is February 2nd. And you know what that means. It's Groundhog Day. There you see it in Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania.

Get your arms around that. They're waiting to see. I love it. Groundhog sees his shadow. That's fantastic. Fans on stage, everyone's ready to go. We also have a lot to get. We've got to do the show live from there sometime.

What's wrong with us? Oh, my God, I would love to do that. Willie, we can do that, can't we? Can we do the show live from Punk Satani? You know, Groundhog Day for me, I don't know how you guys feel, is one of those things I can never remember whether, if the Groundhog sees its shadow, it's good or it's bad. It's just, it just doesn't stay with me. I don't know how you guys feel. It's one of those things I can never remember whether if the groundhog sees its shadow, it's good or it's bad. It's just, it just doesn't stay with me. Maybe because I don't care. I don't know. I don't know. But that would be fun. Yeah.

Gobbler's knob. Exactly. That's what we want. That's where we all want to go. All right. We do have a lot to get to this morning. I really want to hear that. Including President Joe Biden's meeting at the White House with Speaker Kevin McCarthy. Both sides were upbeat about their conversation. It appears we're not any closer to a deal on the debt ceiling, but we will follow the developments there. He gave him a box of White House M&Ms like McCarthy left happy. Plus, former President Trump sort of endorses a potential challenger in the 2024 presidential race. I'm not sure he knows what to do with this situation.

That's my gut. That's my analysis. All of the people who used to suck up to him are now thinking of running against him. And he's trying to, like, thread the needle. We'll explain what that's all about. Meanwhile, on Capitol Hill, House Republicans are expected to kick another Democrat off an influential committee. We'll talk about whether that's retribution or what's going on there. Goes around, comes around.

It does. And Republicans need to be careful. Yeah. Along with Joe, Willie and me, we have the host of Way Too Early, White House Bureau Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, former aide to the George W. Bush White House and State Department's Elise Jordan, and former White House press secretary under President Obama, Robert Gibbs. Gibby is with us this morning. It's great to have him here.

You know, Willie, just really quickly going back to what we talked about yesterday with. About the monkeys? No, you're obsessed about the monkeys. In the closet. That's a great... Tom Brady, though. I'm obsessed with the monkeys, too. Yeah, what's that?

But Tom Brady retiring, I feel so bad, you know? I mean, here's a guy. What's he going to do? It was sad. Like, it was sad. When he was on the beach saying, I'm done.

Yeah, it was very sad. And Willie remembers after I got out of Congress, he would kindly go with me. He also went on to the baseball card shows where I was going out. I tried to sell my copies of my official portrait along with an elf for two dollars and ninety five cents. Not a lot of takers. And I'm just afraid, Willie. I mean, is that is that going to happen to Tom Brady? Is he going to be on the beach? Yeah. Is he going to be on the beach like Phil

said I was doing? I'm worried about Tom. Those conventions were sad, weren't they, Joe? We'd go down to the Civic Center in St. Pete and set up a card table for you. And we'd have all the decorations up from your career. And just know Pete Rose would be a couple tables down with a line around the block. And it was just you and me standing there trying to flag down anybody who'd come by. We didn't make a whole lot of sales. But a softer landing for Tom Brady. Really? You might remember he has a 10-year, $375 million contract in place with Fox Sports.

So I think he's going to be just fine. Okay. So he's not going to have to. He's not going to feel like you. Self-elf-pop. I found a tab can. Prescott. Convention Center.

Well, that's good news. $375 million going to Fox. I bet he'll be good at his job. He will. And John, it is interesting to me because the guys at this level, Michael Jordan, Derek Jeter, Wayne Gretzky, don't usually go

into this sort of analysis and commentary business. It's like they ascend to Mount Olympus, they buy a team, they do something like that. So it'll be interesting to see how he fits into that universe of sitting and talking about a quarterback controversy or a coaching. Yeah. It's sometimes hard for a player that great to actually talk about what made him great because so much of it was just instinct and hard work. Brady also throughout most of his career, pretty careful with the press in that

way, like Jordan or Jeter, where he's pretty guarded. However, he has loosened up a little bit in the last couple of years since leaving New England and Bill Belichick. He's got like a podcast and stuff that he's sort of funny on occasionally. He's pretty guarded. However, he has loosened up a little bit the last couple years since leaving New England and Bill Belichick. He's got like a podcast and stuff that he's sort of funny on occasionally. He's pretty good on social media. I also think we saw Peyton Manning be successful at this with that Manning Brothers show he does with Eli on Monday Night Football. And I'll just mention this with Brady. I mean, he's got this new contract.

It's unclear. It's supposed to start whenever his playing career is done. That's now. Fox has the Super Bowl in 10 days. I wouldn be surprised if brady makes a cameo there to get this career start call roll them out for the super bowl yep yeah so so willie um i can see fox already using uh some of the things we've said this this morning to promote their $375 million person, sort of funny on a case. Yeah. He's going to be great.

His biggest fan in the world. You know, the thing is, you never know, do you? He's a nice guy. He's going to be great. You never know how this is going to go. Because Tony Romo, for instance, I had no idea how Tony Romo was going to be. Right? And sometimes a little erratic as a quarterback. That guy would get on and say, OK, it's second down.

This is what they're going to do on third down. He's going to throw an out pattern. They're going to set it up this time. He called it. And so after like a couple of weeks of listening to Tony Romo, you knew he had it. You either have it or you don't have it. And I hope for Fox and $375 million. But you never know, do you, until they get into the booth? Yeah, he'll be great. I'm not saying he won't be great. I'm just saying some of these guys, when you're that great,

when you're the greatest of all time, they don't go into the commentary business. But how fun has it been to have Peyton Manning, one of the greatest of all time, one of the three or four greatest quarterbacks of all time, sit and watch a game with him and get in his head. And he's watching where the linebacker has moved up. So make the hot read. I mean, if we can get Tom Brady doing that, that would be a gift to football fans. Yeah, yeah. And it's good. He's got something lined up right into it. All right. Let's get to me. Yeah. Thank God. No plans. OK, let's get to politics now at six past the hour. Former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley

is inviting supporters to a special announcement event on February 5th in Charleston. The Republicans expected to announce her 2024 bid for the White House. This would make her the second major candidate in the race following Donald Trump. The former president responded to the news posting this 2021 video on his social media page.

He still has a lot of popularity. If he runs again in 2024, will you support him? Yes. If he decides that he's going to run, would that preclude any sort of run that you would possibly make yourself? I would not run if President Trump ran. OK, then Trump posted that video with the caption that reads Nikki has to follow her heart, not her honor. Yeah, she should definitely run. So Robert Gibbs, bigger story here is she's totally changed her mind and doesn't think that he's an issue. And the question is, Robert Gibbs, at this point, can anybody really do anything to to stop Donald Trump if Donald Trump decides he's actually going to run? He is running. Well, he's saying he's running. I mean, but you never know with him.

It could be he's trying to make money. He's trying to avoid indictments, prosecution. A lot of legal cases. He actually gets out there on a debate stage, I guess, Robert, is there anyone who can still, who can take the guy down? He's still the champ inside the Republican Party. Yeah, look, I think you saw this at the end of the 2016 primaries. People tried to play Donald Trump better than Donald Trump could. And we found out nobody's better at being Donald Trump than Donald Trump. I think a bit of the irony here is that Trump may actually benefit from an extraordinarily large Republican field that does get in. It's sort of interesting that he's poking Nikki Haley for getting in.

I think he's actually happy to have her in because, again, if you look back to the 2016 primaries, Republicans get to a point where it's winner take all in each of these states. And Donald Trump won states with far less than 50 percent in those primaries, got all of those delegates. And you can imagine if there's a Trump lane and a not Trump lane, if there's several candidates, a half dozen or more, splitting up the not Trump lane and Trump gets what he normally is going to get, he's still going to rack up a lot of delegates and be in this process for an extraordinarily long time. So, Elise, Nikki Haley, Governor Haley, Ambassador Haley is like so many Republicans who did

for a minute step out and criticize Donald Trump. About a month after January 6th, she said this to Politico. We need to acknowledge he let us down. Talking about Trump, he went down a path he shouldn't have. We shouldn't have followedico. We need to acknowledge he let us down talking about Trump. He went down a path he shouldn't have. We shouldn't have followed him. We shouldn't have listened to him. We cannot let that ever happen again. And then sure enough, we see her shortly thereafter say, well, I wouldn't run against him if he decides to run. So I guess these people running against them need to make up their mind or decide how they walk that line of

being critical of Donald Trump if they want to be, but also keeping some of his voters around. And also how they're going to deal with January 6th, because that is an issue that divides Republican voters. You have the at lowest 30 percent of voters who are always going to stick with Donald Trump, probably is more around 35, 38, maybe. What Gibbs was saying, he benefits so much from a crowded Republican field. And right now it looks like we're just going to see all of the mistakes of the 2016 Republican primary happen again. And you're going to see a lot of candidates get in and you have Nikki Haley getting in the second. Mike Pompeo definitely looks like he's proceeding ahead with a run. What about Tim Scott? What about Mike Pence? What about Ted Cruz?

I heard from an advisor to him that he's considering it, but he just isn't sure of the lane. And I think that's the question that Nikki Haley has to ask herself. What is her lane in this primary? Yeah. And so many others that are talking about running Jonathan O'Meara. This is starting to take on the faint outlines of 2016, where you have Washington Republicans, even if they're trying to be Trump is that are being critical of the edges of Donald And yet you look at you look at polls right now of Republican primary voters. They are beyond extreme. The majority of them are beyond extreme. The majority of them believe that the election was stolen. The majority of them have crazy views about Trump's own vaccine.

The majority of them are for outside the mainstream of American politics. And and they're still going to, you know, they're still going to be with Donald Trump. I really I think we're getting this divide again that we had in 2016, where the base was all in for Trump, while some Washington Republicans were trying to be a bit rational and try to straddle that line. There's no straddling it, it seems still. Yeah, I suppose it's appropriate that on Groundhog Day, we're getting a rerun of 2016, because that's what it looks like we're going to have. And the difference is, I think the Republican Trump knew where the Republican Party was instinctively. He knew where the base was in 2016

better than the establishment ever could. And that was on issues like immigration and trade and things like that. That's the wall. That's where he really struck a chord with them. And the party, the base, has only moved with him since. To your point, Joe, it's become more radical. It's become more extreme. It's become it's moved more to the right.

That's in line with where Trump took them. So it's going to be hard for a quote mainstream Republican to find some other lane, to find some other place to try to beat him. And that's why the candidate that everyone's sort of looking towards, because look, Pompeo, Pence, Haley, what's the constituency there for these folks? It's people, at least for now, the flavor of the month. Right. At least for now, the flavor of the month is DeSantis. Now, we'll see when he actually gets out there, when he's nationally vetted, where that goes. But what DeSantis is trying to do is take on Trump from the right on a bunch of issues, including on pandemic response and culture wars in the schools in Florida and such. So he's making the bet that you have to take on Trump on Trumpism. But when we saw others try to out-Trump Trump, they lost. They lost badly.

And Trump, at least to this point, he's still got that base. Speaking of Ron DeSantis, the Florida governor will head to Alabama next month to headline the state's Republican winter dinner that's on March 9th. While DeSantis has yet to announce anything, his advisors reportedly are preparing for a possible presidential run, actively laying the foundation for a national campaign. Alabama, the primary state that helped secure Trump his frontrunner status in 2016, went on Super Tuesday. He won that state by double digits. So sort of in his own oblique way, Joe, Ron DeSantis is, you know, he made that not even a criticism of Donald Trump,

but offering a contrast perhaps the other day with Donald Trump, but not saying much beyond that. He represents an alternative to Donald Trump in the minds of some Republicans, I guess, who don't want to go along with Trump and see something close to Donald Trump that they could stomach. But we don't know if he's going to run, Ron DeSantis. And if he does, we don't know what even what he's going to look like outside the state lines of Florida. It's really looking like the Republicans are going to have some options. And Joe, for you know, there's going to be a small percentage that are diehard Trump MAGA supporters. But for a lot of Republicans who might be a little concerned about the direction of their party or might have been a little concerned about issues like, for example, abortion, where the country is more in the middle about this.

There'll be options of Nikki Haley, Mike Pompeo, possibly Mike Pence, possibly Ron DeSantis, as opposed to Donald Trump, who has I don't even know how many different legal cases potentially brewing against him, potential indictments. We could start in Georgia. We could start with the Mar-a-Lago documents. We could look at Stormy Daniels and that now heating up. We could look at taxes. You could look. I mean, there are there's case after case after case that the 2020 election, the insurrection being built against him from the Department of Justice down to different states. Right. I mean, there's a rape suit against him that is still going strong. Yeah. Again, this guy is drowning in legal problems. Again, you bring all this up on Groundhog Day. It sounds like 2016. Robert. Every day gets worse, though, for him. And every day his his most rabid base, the primary voters think it's a deep state conspiracy.

Robert Gibbs. I'm just when I think of Ron DeSantis, I'm reminded of that really famous Mike Tyson quote that everybody's got a plan until the first time they're punched in the face. I mean, I saw Ron DeSantis. You saw Ron DeSantis debate Charlie Crist. Charlie Crist had him tongue tied several times when there were some basic questions. You know, Ron DeSantis is very good with gestures. He's great calling press conferences. He loves yelling, especially at female reporters. It makes him feel tough. He walks off and people give him lots of money. But you know this better than any of us. Like on the presidential level, you get up on that debate stage. And when it's Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis and he has nowhere to hide.

I mean, come on. Again, I it's it's seeming like that Tyson quote makes a lot of sense here. I don't I mean, what do you think? Does DeSantis have a chance one on one against Trump? Well, I'd say a couple of things. One, you point out really correctly that what we don't know is how somebody is going to perform on that national stage. And, you know, not a lot different than I think Barack Obama had when he first came out is he's not going to get a chance to practice off Broadway before the play starts on opening night. So he's going to be scrutinized from the very beginning. I do think the one advantage that he's going to have, and you saw him try to use this in the response the other day to Trump, which is to use those credentials of having won significantly in Florida and to build a record

in the legislature and a governing record that he can use against him. We'll see whether he can slug it out punch for punch for him. It may be that there's a strategy that doesn't slug it out punch for punch. It'll be interesting to watch. and I don't think we'll know the type of candidate he potentially could be until we see him certainly for a few weeks or a couple of months out on the trail. And look, it gets uneven. Again, I remember traveling with then-Senator Obama, and at the beginning he was not all that comfortable as a national candidate, not all that comfortable out there on the stump every day.

And you sort of get the practice and learn it because you have to do it every single day. Yeah. And boy, he's a perfect example. And I will say he's a perfect example. I mean, you can line him up with Ron DeSantis in this respect. You don't know how DeSantis in the end is going to do on the national stage, because, I mean, I was very skeptical that a state senator that just got elected to the United States Senate was going to beat the Clinton machine. He did. He made history. So sometimes it's lightning in a bottle. Absolutely. Robert, stay with us. We want to move now to Ukraine

really quickly because a new Russian missile strike has destroyed an apartment building in the eastern Ukrainian city and damaged several other structures as well. Rescue crews were searching through the rubble overnight, looking for any survivors. Joining us from Kyiv, Ukraine, NBC News foreign correspondent Raf Sanchez. Raf, what more can you tell us about this latest strike? Mika, this strike took place in the eastern city of Kramatorsk. It is the next big city on from Bakhmut, which we've been talking so much about, the city where there is such intense fighting going on, even as we speak. That strike in Kramatorsk, once again, hitting a civilian apartment building, just like we saw before in the city of Dnipro. And once again, Mika, that strike happening at night when families are at home,

people are asleep, they're trying to stay warm in the depths of winter. Ukrainian authorities saying at least three people killed in that strike, many, many more wounded, and they are combing the rubble right now for any other survivors. President Zelensky is pointing to this and saying this is why we need advanced Western weapons, including F-16s, to protect our cities. But, Mika, Ukrainian civilians here in Kiev are not waiting for the West to deliver. They are crowdfunding themselves equipment for the Ukrainian military. We met this week with a man named Serhii Pertula. Now he, like President Zelensky, is a former comedian, but he has turned into a fundraising

powerhouse. He has raised $100 million for the Ukrainian military so far for everything from night vision goggles to sniper rifle scopes, but above all for drones. I want you to take a listen to a little bit of our conversation. How many of these have you sent? About 4,500. You've sent 4,500 drones to troops on the front? Only if we talk about small drones, because we also are buying and bringing to the front line UAVs, you know, big planes.

Now, there is a very large delegation of officials from the European Union who are here in Kiev today. They are meeting with President Zelensky to talk about the possibility of one day Ukraine joining the EU. That would be huge for this country, huge for this country's economy. But it's not going to happen for years if it happens at all. The much more urgent concern here in Kyiv is the possibility that Vladimir Putin is going to launch a fresh offensive leading up to the one year anniversary of this war on February 24th. That is something that the Ukrainian defense minister has been warning about today. And Zelensky's chief of staff last night

speaking to Jake Sullivan, President Biden's national security advisor, as well as General Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs. And the Ukrainians are really trying to sound the alarm, not just here in Kiev, but also in Washington, that the Russians are regrouping and they could launch a new attack any day now. Guys. NBC's Raf Sanchez, thank you very much for that report. And still ahead on Morning Joe, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell removes two top Republicans from the powerful Commerce Committee. Was it retaliation for trying to oust him from leadership. Plus, Republican Congressman George Santos facing new scrutiny this morning. Why? The FBI is now investigating the embattled lawmaker.

Also ahead, Reverend Al Sharpton joins us on the heels of his powerful eulogy at yesterday's funeral for Tyree Nichols. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. Man, I didn't do nothing. You kept on going anyhow. Why do they go ahead? Because they feel that there is no accountability. They feel that we are going to get angry a day or two and then we're going on to something else but some of us do this every day some of us believe in the dream has to come true some of us are going to fight until we make this legislation happen i don't know when i don't know how but we won't stop until we hold you accountable and change the system. That is part of Reverend Al Sharpton's eulogy for Tyree Nichols yesterday in Memphis. The Nichols family laid their son, their relative, to rest following an emotional

service celebrating and honoring his life. It's been almost a month since the traffic stop that ended with five police officers viciously beating Nichols. He died three days later. His mother said her faith is the only thing keeping her going after the death of her youngest child. Tyree was a beautiful person. And for this to happen to him, it's just unimaginable.

I promise you the only thing that's keeping me going is the fact that I really truly believe my son was sitting here on an assignment from God. Yes, ma'am. And I guess now his assignment is done. He's been taken home. An assignment from God. Reverend Al's passionate eulogy touched on Tyree Nichols' final moments

and the struggle, the ongoing struggle for civil rights. Home is where you are at peace. Home is where you don't have to keep your dukes up. Home is where you're not vulnerable. Home is where everything is all right. He said, all I want to do is get home. I come to Memphis to say the reason I keep going is all I'm trying to do is get home. I come to Memphis to say the reason I keep going is all I'm trying to do is get home. I want to get where they can't treat me with a double standard.

We're asking to be treated equal and to be treated fair. And just like they marched and boycotted and went to jail for nine years from the 55 Montgomery bus boycott to the 64 civil rights act, we're going to pay the same dues to get this George Floyd justice and policing act. And Reverend Al joins us now on set here in New York. Rev, you had to do too many of these. Another one yesterday in Memphis, but we were just talking as you sat down. Through the morning, there was a sense of purpose, a sense of mission in that service, including from Rovon Wells, Tyree Nichols' mother,

when she had that unforgettable line that brought tears to a lot of our eyes and sent chills up our spine, said, my son was on assignment from God. No, she was remarkable. And I think people need to know that no one gave her those lines. She wasn't reading. This was from her heart. And she really believes that he was on an assignment from God. And I think that's what strengthens her to go through it. I don't care how much support you get for mother and stepfather to bury their child and look at his four-year-old son every day. They'll never get over that when all of the cameras are gone. And she brought the human side, as well as Vice President Harris coming and joining us saying, we've got to pass the legislation. As you said, we keep going to

these funerals. It's too episodic. And we wait on the next one and we rally and we wait on the next one. It's time for Congress to stop this and really up the ante legally to say to police, you will be held accountable. What's your sense of that, Rev? What's your sense of change at the federal level? It didn't go anywhere really through all those negotiations in 2020 and into 2021. Tim Scott, Cory Booker, they're all working on it. It didn't it didn't go through. Do you see this as a different moment? There are obviously a lot of skeptics out there. I talked to Senator Schumer and the leaders of the eight legacy civil rights groups, including National Action Network. We're having a call with them later today. Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries.

There's a sense that maybe there can be a movement forward. Some of the senators are up for reelection next year that were not up for reelection after George Floyd. And unfortunately, politics plays a lot in this. President Biden is pushing hard. Vice President Harris coming to the funeral center signal. And we only needed a couple of votes, a few votes that could have given us the filibuster that passed the House last time. And I think there's a new sense of urgency. And I think when Americans saw that video of a man, they didn't even ask him for his license and registration.

They never said, we stopped you for this crime. They just dragged him out the car and started beating him. And a lot of Americans said, wait a minute now, this is a bridge too far. And that's why we feel if qualified immunity is taken off the table, where policemen know I can be sued personally, I could lose my house, my car, my children are having a wherewithal with education if they're going to college. I better be a little careful before I just drag somebody out the car and just beat them. Like I know that it'll be all right. Nobody's going to do anything about it.

Rev, you talked about the story of Joseph and Genesis and Joseph and his brothers throwing Joseph into the pit and talked about how every time that happens, God pulls out, whether it's Martin or Trayvon or George or Tyree, pull them out of that pit and move even closer to the goal. It reminds me at the end of that story, the part of Joseph's story that I find most inspiring and hopeful is what you were talking about. And it's Genesis 50, 20, where Joseph tells his brothers who were weeping because they find out he's alive. And not only is he alive, he's going to save their lives and their family's life and everybody else's life. He said, what you meant for evil, God intended for good so that many lives

may be saved. Talk about that promise you delivered to the church yesterday. Yes. What the story of Joseph is really a story of tragedy turned into triumph and where Joseph's brothers, jealous of him as the dreamer, and I referred to Dr. King as the dreamer who was killed there in Memphis in 68, Joseph's brother out of envy and jealousy saw him coming and said, here comes a dreamer. Let us kill him and see what happens to the dream. And one brother had mercy and said, well, let's just throw him in the pit. And we'll just tell dad that some ferocious animal got him. And they threw him in the pit, their own brother. And my story was that when they saw him again, he was a governor. They had come to the land to

get food because they were in a famine. And the brother they threw in the pit was the one that had to feed them. And the whole moral of the story was that what they meant for evil, God made good. And I think that all of these tragedies, all of these families rallying could change how we deal with policing in America. I think voting rights and policing are the civil rights challenges of the 21st century, at least the first quarter. I think their sacrifice, their blood will be redeeming. And it is very important to tell people that in the moment we may look like we're in a pit, but this pit could be used for something that could change the whole land. And I honestly and sincerely believe that. And I was heartened by the fact this mother believes that when she said she felt her son was on assignment from God.

And lastly, on a lighter note, Mika, you see Joe talks to Willie about football. He and I talk Bible on the phone. There you go. It's true. I hear it on the other end. They love talking about it. Elise Jordan, that's good that you're keeping up Joe's spirituality. You help all of us. You help all of us. I'm taking away that you felt hopeful almost amidst this tragedy, amidst all the suffering in Memphis, that you actually do feel like this might be a breaking point and that something could change. And if you had to name the number one thing in the George Floyd bill, would you say it's qualified immunity?

What has to be done immediately? I would say it's qualified immunity. And I think that what has to be done is for members of the Senate to hear from their constituents who need to pass and for them to realize this is beyond race. You know, in 2021, Attorney Ben Crump, who I call the Attorney General of Black America, and I went to B.B. Arkansas, Magaland, and I did the eulogy and he represented a white family that had been a victim of police brutality. Now we're in Memphis dealing with black cops that we're saying should face justice. So I think the argument now is this is not about just race.

Certainly, I think race is at the core of it. I don't think these guys would have done that to a white guy. But this is about how we're going to police in a civilized society. And I think that's what we must try and do. And that's what I think we communicated yesterday. And we're going to stay on this. Rev, it was a beautiful eulogy. I just wish you didn't have to do it so often. Reverend Al Sharpton, thanks so much. Always good to see you. Mika. Up next, the law that's been the target for Republicans for the past 12 years. Obamacare is not only still law, but it's thriving. Steve Ratner has charts on that. Plus, there is still no deal on the debt ceiling following yesterday's meeting between

President Biden and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. But Senator Tim Kaine has a plan to protect Americans from the threat of default. The Virginia Democrat is our guest this morning. Also ahead, we'll speak with the director of the White House Office of Management and Budget, Morning Joe. We'll be right back. Home, hard to know what it is if you've never had one. Home, I can say where it is, but I know I'm going home. Willie, we have breaking news from our NBC News desk. We have a great celebration.

It's crossing the wire right now. I want to hear this. Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro is now in Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania. He's in that crowd. He's in the crowd somewhere. It's kind of cool. Yeah, exactly. They're pretty cool. Let's just that crowd. He's in the crowd somewhere. It's kind of cool. Yeah, exactly. Let's just

listen for a second. Alright, we may need to be there next year. That's all I have to say. It's fun. It looks great. And good for Governor Shapiro. He's up early checking out whether or not the Groundhog's going to see his shadow. Yeah, and maybe he can tell us what that means. Speaking of getting up early,

Robert Gibbs, I want to start this block by thanking you seriously for getting up so early in St. Louis an hour earlier. We greatly appreciate it. And just a perfect day for you to be here. Steve Ratner is about to show his charts on Obamacare. The enrollment just keeps skyrocketing. Republicans have been trying to kill Obamacare now for a dozen years. The American people have continued to vote with their feet, continue to vote by enrolling. Signing up. Yeah.

Enrolling. Talk about that. I mean, we can get personal for a second here. That has to mean a lot to you and to others who fought so hard to make that happen. It certainly does. I mean, I think it's an enduring part of the Obama legacy, probably the biggest part of the Obama legacy. And it's heartening when you see the new enrollment numbers to understand and feel the impact that it has on real Americans.

I go places and I hear people tell stories about being able to get health insurance for the first time because they had a preexisting condition that didn't allow them to be able to do that previously. And I think maybe most heartening, Joe, is if you talk to people in health care, it's becoming an even more ingrained part of the health care system. And it is probably only going to continue to grow as people leave employer-based insurance because of the way their jobs are structured and purchase individual insurance. So I think the best parts of the ACA are just really getting started. And I think even in five or 10 years, those enrollment numbers are going to be even stronger and it's going to be an even bigger part of our health care system.

Well, and let's also talk about the rough start it had, because I think that's good. I think it's a good reminder to all of us that whenever you roll out something this massive, there are going to be problems. But it was really rough at the beginning. Health.gov, I guess it is. Oh, my gosh. Nothing was working. And it was a nightmare for you and a lot of other people early on. But again, here we are 12 years later. Sometimes things that have a huge impact on our lives don't start smoothly. Yeah, nobody wants to remember the days of trying to log on and having the website not work after years of pointing to that moment of beginning to sign people up. But again, I think it's that enduring legacy. It's the real resiliency

of the plan and the program. And again, I think every year you see more and more people. And I will say, too, a big shout out to President Biden, who, working through legislation last year, strengthened the ACA by continuing to provide the types of subsidies we saw during the pandemic to make those health care policies even more affordable, now extending those for a series of years, I think is just another great way. We have fewer people that are uninsured in this country than ever before. And that is a very, very good thing, regardless of your party. It's made a huge difference on that front. You just look at the numbers, it's undeniable. And That is a very, very good thing, regardless of your party. It's made a huge difference on that front.

You just look at the numbers. It's undeniable. And again, we talk about the ups and the downs, the difficulties. Again, the resilience of the program, I think, has been remarkable. You look at the two years that Republicans controlled Washington, Donald Trump's first two years. They were doing everything they could to try to kill it. They just couldn't do it. And the numbers keep growing. Let's bring in Steve Ratner. He's got the charts. Steve.

I've got the charts. And yes, Robert and all of his colleagues should feel unbelievably great about what they did for America when they passed Obamacare against a lot of really tough odds. But just to put some flesh on the bones of what you guys were talking about. So this chart shows enrollments under just the marketplace part of Obamacare, where individuals who don't have insurance could go to buy insurance. And you can see the latter part of the Obama administration, it obviously ramped up from zero. And you can see that we got up to about 12 or 13 million Americans buying their insurance on the exchanges. Then along comes Donald Trump, who, as you also said, did basically

everything he could to kill it. Remember the famous vote on the floor of the Senate with John McCain and his thumbs down. But nonetheless, even though it did decline a little bit during the early Trump years, it basically flatlined during that period. And then, as Robert indicated... By the way, that's a good reminder. We're here in port also because of John McCain's thumb down. That very dramatic thumbs down saved Obamacare. And as you said, notwithstanding everything else the Trump administration did to try to kill it, they, for example, cut its budget for outreach and trying to get Americans to sign up. They did all kinds of stuff. You can see it did go down a little bit under Trump, came back up a little bit, basically flatline.

But then, as Robert indicated, you've had this enormous surge in interest in the exchanges and a record number of people buying it, in part because in the American Rescue Plan, the first piece of Biden legislation. It contains some additional subsidies, some additional incentives, some additional money for outreach and getting people to sign up. And lo and behold, people, if you build it, they will come. And if you encourage them, they will come and sign up to reach that record number that you can see over on the right. And so it's an enormous step forward that hasn't really gotten a heck of a lot of attention. And then, as Robert indicated, it led to a drop in the number of uninsured. And we can take a look at that if you want.

But what you'll see, as he suggested, is a record low number of people without insurance, down to 8% from roughly 15% plus or minus before the passage of Obamacare. If you go all the way back before Medicare and Medicaid was more like 25 percent. But again, this is a combination of not just what I showed you on the exchanges, but also some things that were that the Biden administration did as well to encourage states to sign up for expanded Medicaid, which provided insurance to more people. Steve, this last chart is fascinating because for all the protests from Republican members of Congress, Republican senators, nine out of the 10 highest enrollments are in Republican led states, red states,

if you want to call them that. Yeah. Take a look at the map and you'll see something amazing, which is if you look at the 10 states, I think really all of them actually are pretty much red states. And oddly enough, Florida, of all places where you have Ron DeSantis leading his charge against virtually every kind of government program, has the highest level of enrollment in the exchange is about 15 percent. Number one, DeSantis land, number one. What? I love it. Number one for Oh, my Lord. DeSantis land, number one. What? I love it.

Number one for enrollments. And then you can look right across the sunbelt down there and you see Texas, you see Mississippi, you see Alabama, you see all these states with huge Medicare enrollments as well as some up in the Great Plains. And so here's a fun fact for you. In the 10 states, in the 10 states with the highest enrollment under the Affordable Care Act, every one of those 10 senators, every Republican voted against Obamacare back in that 2017 vote that we were referring to a few minutes earlier.

So their senators are voting one way. The residents of those states are voting with their pocketbooks in their feet the other way to try to get health insurance. And Robert Gibbs, as we look at these states, the top 10 states that for the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare, the top enrollment rates, Democrats get exactly zero, zero electoral votes in 2020, as well as 2016 from all of these states. And the hypocrisy is just it is just magnificent. It reminds me, Robert, of what I've always said is one of my favorite polls of all time. While Obamacare was was being debated, a poll was out where they asked Tea Partiers two questions. One, do you support Obamacare? And of course, hardly any did. The second was, do you think the federal government should be involved in health care?

And of course, the numbers were astronomically low. Then they asked the follow up question. Do you do you think Medicare should be done away with? And, you know, nobody supported that. They love their they love their Medicare, but they didn't want Obamacare, supposedly. Now, look at the numbers. They love their Obamacare, but they like complaining about it even more. Well, look, I think health care affordability is an issue that unites Democrats, Republicans and independents. It's an issue that we continually see in polling and hear about that Americans are concerned about. We just went through a pandemic where we know that

people that didn't have access to health care are likely to have the comorbidities that make things like the pandemic more virulent for them. So, look, I'm so glad to see the numbers and so glad to see the impact that it's having. And again, I think its best days really are still ahead of it. All right, Robert Gibbs. Thank you so much for coming on this morning. We appreciate it. So grateful for you being here. Elise, I need to go back to you. I want to show this map again, because I think I've lived in most of these states. I lived in Florida, lived in Georgia, lived in Mississippi.

A lot of Republicans really hated Obamacare. They wanted to get rid of it again and again and again and again. So isn't this really like we look at these states, the hypocrisy is is just amazing. And I'll tell you what else it's it's it's it's it's the hypocrisy is amazing on vaccinations. You know, like I know that before Trump, Mississippi had the highest vaccination rates in America. And in fact, their laws were so tough on vaccination because they hated all the hippies out west that were anti-vaxxers that they didn't allow for a religious exemption. Right. And so and now these same people who hate the federal government, they get more money from the federal government per capita than anybody else. And they hate the Affordable Care Act. They hate Obamacare. And they're the first ones. And I'm glad they're signing up for it. But they're the first ones they would say using their language at the trough, getting the federal dollars.

But, Joe, they're also forced into these exchanges because so many of these states have refused to accept the billions of dollars that they would get from Medicaid expansion. And how many of these states who have the highest rate of opting in have chosen not to accept the money? Because at this point, it's politically popular in Mississippi. The voters are clamoring and begging for Medicaid expansion. And the politicians, the Republican politicians in control just won't do it. Yeah, there were extra incentives also in the A.R.P. to expand Medicaid. And almost nobody did. And of those top 10 states, Utah is the only one that has expanded Medicaid. All the rest of them have refused to do it and have driven

their people to some degree onto the exchanges. All right. Okay. Steve, stay with us, if you could. Still ahead, we're going to have a look at the stories making front page headlines.