Morning Joe - Morning Joe 2/2/24

Episode Date: February 2, 2024

What Biden really says about Trump behind closed doors

All of a sudden, Mr. Iace, the cognitive test doesn't seem to know what's going on. Do you plan to try to use campaign funds or PAC money to try to pay some of the penalties in the New York defamation and fraud cases? I don't understand. What? Are you thinking of potentially trying to use campaign money to pay some of those penalties that you might incur? What penalties? In the New York fraud case, in the defamation case. I didn't do anything wrong. I mean, that's been proven as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, but as far as the court is concerned, you did do something wrong, and it's going to cost you around $83 million. I see what he's doing, though. I know exactly what he's up to. He's like that mob boss who pretended to be crazy by wandering around the town in a bathrobe. He's Vinny the Chin is who he is. Good morning.

Well, good morning, Joe. It is. I'm sorry. Are we not coming in? Q's the best music guy anywhere, right? By far. What's today? I know where you're going.

What? There it is. Okay. There it is. There we go. There it is. Good morning. Welcome.. There we go. There it is. Good morning. Welcome to Morning Joe.

It's Friday, February the 2nd. Groundhog Day. Thank you. Gobbler's knob. Yeah. There it is. Anybody ever been up there? Well, I've been to see the former mayor drop the groundhog.

Did you say it was Bloomberg? I actually filmed that video. No, no. It was a Bloomberg. Did you say when Bloomberg? I actually filmed that video. No, no, it wasn't. Wait, no. Well, Bloomberg got bit by the groundhog because he was told not to stick his finger in the box. And what did he do? Oh, I got $87 billion.

I can stick my finger in the box. That's right, yeah. And then de Blasio dropped it. Don't you have a permanent residence? Yes. And this is my location? This was the killing of the groundhog. He killed him. He killed him.

He killed him dead. Look at the thing on de Blasio's hand. Look at that thing. Is dropping a groundhog just kill it? Are the organs just that delicate? You drop it on the head, yeah. You know? Yeah.

It died of internal injury. Some of us are very delicate. So sad. And see that oven mitt on de Blasio? It was like up to his shoulder. He didn't want to get bit. Exactly. The zoo cover-up afterward

that I had to report on. There was a cover-up? And not only that, but the USDA actually cited the Staten Island Zoo for allowing an untrained handler to handle the groundhog. The next year, he was like in a little popemobile. He couldn't be touched. The whole standoff.

The killing of a groundhog. That's great reporting. We're so lucky. Why did I read that? I don't think I read that in real time. You don't read the New York Times. I don't know. I can't help you.

It was the Wall Street Journal. It's behind the paywall. Wow. So there's the killing of the groundhog. By the way, Mika's not here today. Really? Yeah. I barely noticed.

We're about to go into a wild ride here. And the killing of a groundhog by a mayor and the assault of Elmo by a comedy legend. Come on. And we're going to talk to him today. We're going to have to ask him the questions nobody else will ask. We have the exclusive follow-up interview with Larry David, who will be joined by the great Susie Essman, right here at this table a couple of hours from now.

There was an incident on the Today Show yesterday. Larry V. Elmo. He assaulted Elmo. Well, I don't know if it was an assault. It was an assault. It was an assault. It was an assault. Elmo did nothing to deserve that.

Well, that might be. No, that's the point. Also, Elmo's innocent until proven guilty of all things. Larry was upset. Larry's going. Larry wants to. He's been getting in other people's business. Ask, how are you doing?

Okay. How dare he? Yeah, anyway. Larry's going to be here with his attorney this morning. Talk through this exclusive. He better. Larry wants to go out with a string of murders. Yeah. Like a string of assaults. On Muppets. On wants to go out with a string of murders.

A string of assaults. On Muppets on the way out the door. That's how you bring the whole thing to a close, Joe. Keep that in mind for when you're getting ready to go. Well, I hadn't really thought about that. I'm just saying from way down the line, 60, 70 years from now. Willie, you know how I'm going to

go. Just like I did in Congress. On Friday, I say, see you guys on Monday. And I just never came back. So I'll go, thank you so much for watching us this week. I will see you on Monday. And then by like Wednesday,

people go, just on vacation. And then about two months in, they'll be like, that's the longest vacation I've ever seen. Well, if you've learned nothing else from all these years with Mike Barnicle, it's how to do the Irish goodbye. Oh, I know. And that's how you do it. That's how you do it. Mike says, I'll be back with the coffee in five minutes.

You'll see him like three months later. You call him up. Where are you, Mike? I'm at LaGuardia. LaGuardia. I'm at Fenway. He's always at LaGuardia. LaGuardia. He's getting on his foot. I'm at Fenway. He's always at LaGuardia. All right, so I guess we need to go.

Can we start with the Knicks' entitlements here? Oh, yeah. The Knicks have won nine games in a row. No way. A great comeback win against the Pacers last night. Jalen Brunson named an all-star for the first time. Julius Randle's an all-star. Deservingly.

Deservingly. The Garden is electric because of this team they're winning a half game John Hellman of the Bucs for second in the east Celtics and Bucs still the class of the east but man this is a fun team at the garden this year we're just going to the Lakers game tomorrow night are you going oh yes I am LeBron comes to the garden now it's I mean it's gonna be a great uh Saturday night game at uh at Madison Garden not that often and it's going to be a great Saturday night game at Madison River Garden. Not that often. It's going to happen often. It's going to be late, too. It's like a 8.30 game.

8.30 on a Saturday night. And, of course, Heilman's going to be there. He's always, you know, you're always where you're supposed to be, and when you're not, you're left. Anyway. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, look, this team, you know, after the playoff run last season, I think people thought, man, this Knicks team could be for real,

and they so far this, have been for real. Jalen Brunson has been a revelation. He was good in Dallas, but we thought he was sort of a role player with Luka. He is a superstar and a great guy, too. I mean, they will crush our hopes and dreams because that's the nature of being a Knicks fan. But for now, we're having a good time. I can't believe we actually talked about the Knicks around here. Nine in a row.

There's never a reason to talk. You know, I'm a man of the people, right? People go, Joe, Joe, he's one of us. He walks with us. He talks with us. I had no idea until yesterday because somebody was talking about this Friday game. The cheapest ticket available for a Knicks game is $750. Available?

I mean, not as a face value. This is the place that's sold out. Really? Yeah, I mean, that's not the cheapest face value. I don't know what that would be. But, like, the place is just sold out right now. So if you're trying to get a ticket to the game, trying to get a ticket to this Lakers game tomorrow night,

you're really paying more than $700. It's like guys like me, you know, have to watch on cable. I know all the ways to sneak in. Really? Yeah, I can get you in the back way. Oh, good. Any time you want. Same way they used to get Keith Richards out after their shows at the Garden.

Exactly right. To elude the police. There are tunnels. Let's just say this. There are tunnels. Yeah. So, Mara, I didn't, you went to Michigan, right? I sure did.

We have not seen each other since the mighty Crimson Tide. We're humbled by. Very sweet. I mean, there are so many Michigan alumni in New York and we're so obnoxious. I mean, we're like high fiving each other. You really are. So, no, we're insufferable. Nothing like nothing. Unrepentant. Nothing like, you know, the subtlety of an Alabama fan. I will say, I will say, you know, I was I was my boys were there and we were watching. And I know they were, you know, I was we were surrounded by Michigan fans and I was so angry. I was so baffled that we lost. But I was a politician and I was going, oh, no, no, you deserve it. Oh, no. But they

were crazy. I was surprised by how they were. I finally, when I turned around, there was an older guy and he was crying. I said, okay, you know. A Michigan fan or an Alabama fan? A Michigan fan.

Here's a joy. You know, because this happens. You guys once in A Michigan fan or an Alabama fan? A Michigan fan. Okay. He was so happy. Here's a joy. Yeah, okay, here's a joy. You know, because this happens. It's been a long time. You guys want some, like, regeneration. We have to save. We know we have to savor it. So, yeah.

But you guys lose it. All right, next year. We'll win next year. I mean, the Lions had a great season, too. Oh, my God. You know. Yes, that's it. What a great year for Michigan sports.

I mean, you know, the Lions, I mean, no one will look back on this year despite the fact that he got the Super Bowl. It's having not been an incredible year for the Detroit Lions. You know, Michigan sports fans right now are riding high. I've got to say the Lions are. Great story. I haven't really seen any NFL team where the whole country just kind of came together. They were for three and a half quarters. They were America's team.

I mean, people were so excited to see them in the San Francisco 49ers. Yeah. Doesn't San Francisco have enough? Well, right. It's hard to root for. Detroit needed that. Who are you going to be rooting for in that game in the end? At Chiefs 49ers Super Bowl.

Apologies to Claire McCaskill and to Taylor Swift, but really? How am I going to root for there? What are we rooting for? 49ers Super Bowl. Apologies to Claire McCaskill, but like, and to Taylor Swift, but really? How am I going to root for there? What are we rooting for? It's kind of Exxon against like, you know. Against BP. Against BP. It's like, yeah, great. I like watching greatness.

I'll put it that way. I like, people are like, I don't like Tiger. I like watching Tiger Woods on Sunday. So I like watching Patrick Mahomes in the Super Bowl. Sure. I don't care, but I'll go for the Chiefs. You know, there's always a team in the Super Bowl I hate, but there's not here.

I've always kind of liked the Chiefs. Both five. You know, we've talked about Lynn Dawson on the sidelines smoking a cigarette, you know. Those were the days. I'll be watching Taylor Swift. There's that. Sure, there's the Swift show.

I will say I was rooting for the Chiefs to at least make the playoffs because things were looking bad. Yeah. It did look like there was a Taylor Swift. Kelsey dropping balls and things just weren't going right. I was like, oh, come on. I don't want people. I don't want this story.

So they've gotten in. That was before the deep state kicked in. Started like working overtime on Kelsey's behalf. They're good. CIA, NSA. I will say, though, I love the players on both teams. Yeah, Brock Purdy, as Alex just reminded us. Brock is great.

Great story. McCaffrey, what an incredible player. That guy is unbelievable. Debo, holy cow. They're so fun to watch because they're such great players. Kittle, all of them. They're great. And then the Chiefs are, well, the Chiefs.

But if Mahomes does win another Super Bowl, you've got to put him up there. He's getting up there. Not ahead or even with Montana and Brady, but he's getting there. He's that next tier. And still young. He's and Brady, but he's getting... He's that next tier. And still young. Got time. I know what the star of the Super Bowl is going to be for you.

That venue. It's in Vegas, which is your favorite town. Oh. Is Vegas your favorite town? Not really. It used to be one of your favorite towns. I was a younger man. You know what he did when I go to Vegas? I fly. I land. I get in the car. I go to Vegas? I fly.

I land. I get in the car. I go to where I'm supposed to go. Yes, I'm going to stay all weekend. I'll be right back. I get in the car. I go back to the plane, and I fly out. It's a 24-hour town.

That's not how Willie and I used to do it. No. That was a long time ago. A long time ago. All right. With that, I can audit. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I can audit.

The pause has to be pregnant enough that everybody's like, are they going to ever get to the news? So let's be quiet for a second. We're only 11 minutes in. We're on 12. You want to do the news? Hold for edit. Mika's going to. Yeah.

We'll edit that part. Yeah. That's all coming out. Mika's going to. Boy, I'm going to hear from Mika. We've been live this whole time? It's live, but we can cut it in post. Fix it in post, yeah.

It's the magic of television to see JJ's. Should we start? Let's start the show. Okay, let's go. Hey, it's Groundhog Day. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let's start it again. You guys have the Groundhog Day music?

Who's that guy? Hey, welcome to Morning Joe. It's February the 2nd, whatever year we're in. You are looking. It's Groundhog Day, so you're looking at somewhere in central Pennsylvania. I'm not. Here's Willie Geist. He has the news.

Now, what is it? I still don't get it. So the thing that de Blasio killed. Groundhog. Yeah, that. Charlotte. Charlotte. Charlotte.

What is her name? Charlotte. It's a deep reporting. He killed a lady groundhog? He did. Oh, man. So he killed. And actually, Punxsutawney Phil's handler I did speak to afterwards

and said they would have never allowed this to happen in Punxsutawney. Yeah. That's a long way to fall there. Yep. Oh, no. Ready? Oh! Oh, God!

The death of a groundhog. And he's just smiling afterwards. He has no idea. Well, he didn't know he killed Charlotte. Yeah. It just happened. Charlotte like... By the way, there's a great podcast, a murder mystery podcast about the killing of Charlotte.

You can check it out on Apple or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I think that's technically manslaughter. There's no intent there. Okay. Reckless. Or premeditation. Doesn't seem like that much of a mystery either, by the way, about who did it. It's reckless manslaughter. So let's get to the news. Somebody greased his gloves. That's where the mystery. Who wanted to kill Charlie? Let's get to the news. So thanks to our friend Jonathan Lemire and his colleagues at Politico. We're

learning more about what President Biden has to say and thinks about Donald Trump in private. John, you and your colleagues have new reporting on the language President Biden uses behind closed doors when talking about the former president. We need to we need to make John actually say the words. Yeah. You know, we almost did at the campaign stop. A couple of said he's a sick. Well, yeah.

Stopped himself. Get the delay ready. He almost let it slip out last month while he was marking the third anniversary of the attack on January 6th. Trump and his MAGA supporters not only embrace political violence, but they laugh about it. At his rally, he jokes about an intruder whipped up by the big Trump lie, taking a hammer to Paul Pelosi's skull and echoing the very same words used on January 6th. Where's Nancy? And he thinks that's funny. He laughed about it. What a sick. My God. I think it's despicable. Seriously. He was right on the cuffs right there in private.

Biden, according to John and his colleagues, doesn't stop himself there. The president has described Trump to longtime friends and close aides as a sick insert expletive who delights in others misfortunes. That's according to three people who've heard the president use the profane description i'm glad they gave us the f there before all the asterisks i was thinking sick puppy yeah one of the people who has spoken the president said biden recently used there it is expletives when referring to trump biden grew particularly incensed by reports of trump refusing to visit a military cemetery in the rain and by stories that he has mocked the sacrifices of fallen American soldiers.

We heard some of that anger in a speech last weekend in South Carolina. Donald Trump, when he was commander in chief, refused to visit a cemetery, a U.S. cemetery, outside of Paris for fallen American soldiers. And he referred to those heroes, and I quote, as suckers and losers. He actually said that. He said that. How dare he say that?

How dare he talk about my son and all of us just like that? Look, I call them patriots and heroes. The only loser I see is Donald Trump. You know, John, a lot of people will first of all, will have you talk about your reporting. But what I think why it's so important is because people are always asking, why is Biden running? Why is Biden running? I don't understand. He should have quit. He should just do his for he. He's running in part for the same reason he ran the first time. That was because of Charlottesville. And he's running this time because he thinks Donald Trump is a sick fella and thinks that he's bad for America, thinks he's terrible for America. And just bluntly, he doesn't think

anybody in the Democratic Party can beat him but him. That's precisely right. He believes that Donald Trump is a danger to democracy. He believes his behavior is despicable and un-American. It is a personal affront to what Joe Biden believes this country should be about. And in my reporting, we learned there are a few things in particular that really set him off behind closed doors and lead to those profane outbursts. You mentioned Charlottesville when Donald Trump defended people on both sides of that racist riot. That is what led Joe Biden to run in 2020. The reports that Donald Trump confirmed by the January 6th committee that Donald Trump sat and watched the insurrection

from a private dining room just off the Oval Office, cheering them on, even rewinding some of the most violent parts. His warm words for Vladimir Putin, which Biden believes is simply unpatriotic. And then the two examples you just played there, the mockery of fallen American soldiers, which for President Biden is deeply personal because his son, Beau Biden, was stricken and died of cancer soon after returning from Iraq. And then the scene where Trump laughs and makes fun of and floats conspiracy theories about the attack of Paul Pelosi. And this is something the president feels behind closed doors and it is fueling this run. And this is why he has told close aides he feels like he is the one man to beat Trump. He's done it before. He can do it again. It is deeply

personal. And I'll say as a final note, the White House officially declined to comment on this story. They certainly didn't dispute it. But others in others in the Biden camp were very pleased to hear this come out because they say, look, the president is simply saying what a lot of Americans think. This is a good story because it's just an obvious story. And you look at good stories within Washington or what people are talking about, but hasn't really broken out. And of course, Biden is calling Trump a sick because he is who has not basically by this point called Donald Trump that. So it's pretty obvious and pretty unsurprising. I think it's relatable. I mean, yeah, you know, you Biden's running for president. I think, you know, he wants to be as relatable as possible.

And there are a lot of Americans out there who probably see this as pretty cathartic. And I think I think this may be maybe. One reason why the White House probably should let him out more. There's been concerns that that he's not getting out. He's not doing enough stuff. He's not answering enough questions. All right. So if he makes a mistake, he makes a mistake. Like, you know, Andy Card told Barnacle one time that that the that thing that people didn't get about Bush was when he bumbled around and wasn't perfect, wasn't Ronald Reagan. I'm talking about 43. And he kind of said it made him more relatable.

Some of the polls that made him more, he wasn't speaking in flowery language. Like people felt like, OK, yeah, he's one of us. Well, that's Biden. So let Fox News make fun of him because he has the same stutter he had since he was 14 years old. But go out and show flashes of anger. make fun of him because he has the same stutter he had since he was 14 years old. But go out and show flashes of anger. That happened in, by the way, in 2020, he went after a guy in Iowa, almost called him a fat something and he cut himself off. And they're actually, again, it showed a human side of him. I was talking yesterday to someone who studies disinformation, misinformation,

and kind of how people's perceptions get set in. And they were talking about how people think about when there's a piece of information that's put out that's false, the instinct of politicians and communications offices is to go out and dispute that fact, to try and fact check it. And that, in fact, the way it works really in the world, what's better is to give people something else to think about and something particularly that kind of implicitly disproves the first thing. So this person said, you know, that when people talk about Biden's age, nothing does more for it to refute the notion that Biden's too old or not up to the job. Then, you know, when you see him behind the wheel of a car with the aviators on looking good, you don't go out and say, he's not old enough. He's fine. You just, you show it, right? And this

is the kind of thing you're talking about, Joe. It's like you, you get him out there showing the anger, the passion, you know, you, you don't argue about, is he too old or does he still have it? You just go out and show that he's still has, and especially in a relatable way that he's pissed off about the things that a lot of people are pissed off about. And, and it just makes him seem, even if at that point, if he stumbles a little bit, people forgive the stumble when they see the passion and they hear words that sound normal, American, human to them and everybody out there. We're all on cable news. We're all kind of children about profanity. In the real life, we hear profanity every day and no one cares. We don't bleep anything out. We don't put an asterisk.

So people just go around and say these words. It's fine. It's good for them. I didn't realize we were children. I didn't mean, I meant, you know, in the industry's thing of, we can't say these words. No, we must bleep them. I think that's probably good. Yeah.

To not say that. I don't know that I think that. I've got a lot of children watching. I don't think many people are offended by these words. No. Anymore. That's why I don't, well, I still I don't say them. I know you don't. You're pure of heart.

I actually want to ask Lemire this question, which is just for those of us who are students of profanity. Lemire, do you know, like on the kind of George Carlin scale of the seven, sometimes 10 words you can't say on television, how many of those Joe Biden likes to use and apply to Donald Trump? I wonder how deep the reporting goes here. Well, we showed on the screen there the examples we cited for this story. But I think it's sort of a well-known secret, if you will, here in Washington that President Biden is pretty salty behind closed doors. He does have a quick temper. He's the first to admit that. And he's pretty profane at times when he's fired up about something.

And certainly he is about Donald Trump. And that's what people over and over told me, that, of course, Biden was horrified by Trump's actions during the 2016 campaign and during his presidency. But in his post-presidency, even more so, the way Trump has treated these criminal trials, what we have heard from him about E.G. Carroll, everything connected to the insurrection, the warm words for Putin after the invasion, you know, praising Hezbollah for being smart over and over and over. Trump just feels that Biden just feels that Trump is unfit for office. And I'm told his pure loathing of the person, not just the politician, but the person of Donald Trump has only grown. Yeah. And Willie, when when stories like this come out and when Biden goes out and he shows the anger, which I think most people are going to see is appropriate, appropriate anger, righteous anger over, for instance, him saying that people that die in war, war heroes are suckers.

That also not only puts that story out there, but you you go behind the anger. OK, why is he really angry? And in this case, you see and we just showed it on the screen, but it gets back into discussion. General Kelly was the one that confirmed when he was Donald Trump's chief of staff. You know, he Kelly confirmed that he called the war dead suckers and kept asking, why would why would somebody do that? Why would somebody go to war? You know what's in it for them? Talking to a man whose own son had been killed in a war. Yeah, just the cruelty, the hatefulness, the cluelessness.

And the president has the added layer, as he said in that soundbite, my son served. So you're talking about my son. You're talking about the sons and daughters of many, many Americans. It also underlines, you know, Republicans are trying to say, I keep thinking about when Senator Mike Lee came out and endorsed Donald Trump. He said, I can live with the mean tweets. Right. As if it's just mean tweets. Moments like this remind people, no, he actually disparages people who've served in the United States military. It just puts back out there, actually, that it's much more than tweets. It's about the character of the man. Yeah. A guy who says it's I can deal with a mean tweets at the same time a judge accuses him of rape. Yeah. And he's paying close to $100 million for defaming a woman that the judge

said he raped, that the jury said he sexually abused. Yeah, Mike Lee, it's not about the tweets. Like how stupid do these people think we are? I don't think Mike went to an Ivy League school. I don't know where he went to school. Yeah, we did. We can we see the banner again of these these guys that went to Ivy League schools that are just total idiots. Do we have that on hand? Let's see. We are the Biff Pokorova baseball. Look at this.

I love this. So tell me, Stanford and Yale, how are you feeling this morning about Senator Josh Hawley going there? You know, I mean, every one of these people and you look at them, they're genuinely bad actors. They're they're they're they're they're bad for America with their faux populism and they're they're fawning over Donald Trump. They're just bad actors i like the i like the kennedy's an honorary ivy league or what is that oxford oh he went to oxford yeah i wonder if they teach civic in the ivy league i guess they don't anymore see you and me we're states come on we're man and woman of the people. No, he went to Oxford.

Oxford's pretty fancy. It's not the Ivy League, but it's pretty fancy. Well, he talks like this now. He does that, whatever. Cruz is the worst, though. Yeah, but you know. Cruz is just the worst. He can't have everybody beat.

Harvard and Princeton both. Dear God. That is a combo. Mark of the devil. I mean, seriously. But John Kennedy. Also, anytime you have John Kennedy's clip from, what was it? 2004.

2004, yeah. I am a Democrat. Therefore, I shall vote for Senator John Kerry. You know, having it with his gray poupon. And now he, like, how does he, how do you do that? Like, the phony, just all the funny accents. It's Ted Cruz wearing the cowboy boots with the suit. You know, he's a real Texas cowboy, except in every way.

All right. Let's soldier on. Let's get some real news going here. Still ahead on Morning Joe, a live report from Tel Aviv following President Biden's new executive order sanctioning Israeli settlers in the West Bank. We'll explain that. Plus, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin explains why he kept his cancer diagnosis secret. Play his new comments, including an apology. And later this morning, as we mentioned, we'll be joined by Larry David and Susie Essman ahead of the final season of Curb Your Enthusiasm. We cannot wait.

Parents, hide your puppets. Watch Morning Joe. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Get these pills to swallow. How they stick in your... It's a live picture of the White House at 6.32 in the morning. President Biden was in Battleground, Michigan last night, where the Israel-Hamas war is changing the political landscape. NBC News senior White House correspondent Gabe Gutierrez reports. Just days after clinching a coveted endorsement from the United Auto Workers,

President Biden back in Michigan as the battle for this crucial swing state intensifies. We now have in large part because of you and organized labor, the strongest economy in the whole damn world. Carpentry union worker Tracy Langenbarger credits Biden for bringing infrastructure jobs here. Joe Biden has kept us working and he's labor friendly and that's all I can ask for. But warning signs for the Biden campaign, including this new poll showing a potential head-to-head matchup here with GOP frontrunner Donald Trump. Scott Malenfort has been an auto worker for more than 20 years.

I support Trump because I truly believe he does want what's best for the American worker. The former president is trying to peel off more of those blue-collar voters, meeting with Teamsters leadership. Over the years, I've employed thousands and thousands of Teamsters, and they've done a great job. Another challenge for President Biden here? Cratering support from Michigan's huge Arab-American population, demanding a ceasefire in Gaza. I think he is funding a genocide. The president said he understood that pain and passion. But that's not enough for Lori Kamla Ajlouni in the Detroit suburbs.

How disappointed are you with the Biden administration? I am heartbroken. I am so hurt that it's a feeling of betrayal. She voted for Mr. Biden in 2020, but now... There is a widespread underground campaign of Arabs, of Muslims, where we cannot morally support President Biden. So if not President Biden, would you vote for former President Trump? No. So who would you vote for? I would write in on the ballot, cease fire, free Palestine.

Even though that could potentially give the election to former President Trump? If things don't change, then I have no choice. Free Palestine. Even though that could potentially give the election to former President Trump. If things don't change, then I have no choice. And that's a key. And you know, you've been we were talking about how this is you said this is the issue that's going to matter the most in Michigan for Biden. If he can if he can win that. What she said at the end, if things don't change. And you see yesterday the administration sanctioning radical settlers in the West Bank. You see a couple of days ago, Tony Blinken's talking about a Palestinian state, that the United States just may unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state, which would be historic. But those are some of the things, aren't they, that Biden's going to have to do between now

and the election? Absolutely. I mean, not only is there a large number of Arab voters in Michigan, but there are a lot of Democratic voters in Michigan who are sympathetic to Palestinians. And they're seeing what's going on and they're very angry about it. You have young voters in Michigan are extremely important because college voters, you know, also helped put Biden over the edge last time. There's a lot of anger on college campuses as well. And black voters are also very sympathetic to Palestinians. So this isn't about being anti-Israel. People want to hear, people in Michigan, and my family is from Michigan. I spent some time there, quite a bit of time there actually over the holiday. People want to see the administration do more to prevent children from dying in Gaza. OK, that's true all over the world. And people also want to hear more

sympathy and more equanimity for Palestinians. And you hear that over and over. And it's it's about empathy. It's about respect. And people understand that that Joe Biden is in a difficult position. You know, you don't hear on the ground in Michigan a lot, you know, oh, forget about Israel. They don't have a right to defend themselves. No, people want to hear that human rights for Palestinians matter, too. Right. And so I think that this was maybe one step. But, you know, yesterday when Biden was in Michigan, you know, we didn't know for a long time where that event was going to be, which we think now was was part of an attempt to kind of avoid protests outside of those events, those campaign events. There have been protesters following Biden campaign events.

And so this is an ongoing problem and it's becoming an increasing one within the Democratic base. It's not just Arab voters. It just could play an outsized role in Michigan. Right. And I think a lot of people have been caught by surprise. A lot of Democrats, at least, have been caught by surprise and that there's such a divide on this issue. And there is. I mean, I'm not surprised because, you know, I saw it in Congress years and years and years ago that that there were there were Democrats who were solidly pro-Israel and believed Israel could do no wrong. And then there were half of the Democrats who were pro-Palestinian, not anti-Israeli, but pro-Palestinian. And you're starting to see this play out with young voters,

especially obviously with Arab Americans in Michigan and also just with the Democratic base, whether it's whether it's black Democrats, Hispanic Democrats, white Democrats, woke, white, far left Democrats. There's just there's a whole collection of Democrats that and it's about I mean, it's always seemed to me to be about 50 50. That's something that Biden's going to have to reconcile. And I think the key word here is balance. There's going to have to be a sort of a sense of balance toward the suffering of Palestinians and the Israelis for so many of these voters. Well, exactly. The laws of military proportionality. That's kind of what we're looking at. And the big question that I think both sides can ask, I the voters that you're talking about, those specifically progressives, the young people who are upset. Young voters. How do you thread that needle to placate that side

and still get those five to six percent of independents who skew more conservative that voted for Biden that he has to have if he's going to win in Michigan, in Wisconsin, in Arizona? And that's the question. You look at how the coverage of this has only been worse lately as I feel like more connectivity and people getting out of these zones. And you look at just how horrible and there was just I would encourage everyone to read in The New Yorker. Dr. Seema Jalani of the IRC went over a pediatrician and she gives this Syrian interview about what's happened with children. And just the we have to do better. The world has to do better getting supplies to those children. I mean, there is I was in Georgia talking to voters last month and when I was talking to black voters, the thing I kept hearing was I'm struggling here. How can we afford to send bombs that are killing children?

Now, that's a complicated geopolitical situation, but that is what I'm hearing from voters. So there's a disconnect as well about where America's energy is being placed and making sure that we support human rights for all. This is this is not an anti-Israeli position. I wasn't hearing anti-Semitism. I was hearing how can we get involved in another war in the Middle East, which were were supporting one to bombing Yemen. Right. Children. Right. So people are very angry. So so, Willie, the White House is going to depict the time that they're going to do this. But, you know, Biden, the administration has wanted to distance themselves aggressively, not just subtly from Netanyahu, but move beyond him. And David Ignatius has a column talking about that they're going to give Netanyahu an offer that he can't refuse, but it's going to have to refuse, which is the help from the Saudis,

help from other countries in rebuilding Gaza and recognition of the two state solution. But I do think I mean, I think it's past time. The Israelis are sick of Netanyahu. I mean, Netanyahu is responsible for so many of the security lapses. He knew a year beforehand of this. They had the war plans. He knew in 2018, along with Trump, where Hamas was getting their funding and he did nothing to stop the funding. He told Qatar a month before, continue, his team told Qatar, continue funding Hamas in September. In September.

I mean, this is a guy, I mean, it's not worth it. They're not listening to us. They continue. They've continued indiscriminate bombing over the past several weeks. And so it's time. It's time for him to support Israel. But distance we have to distance ourselves from Netanyahu. It's not an accident that we hear through the media that President Biden is tougher on Bibi Netanyahu. Obviously, in the direct aftermath of October 7th, shoulder to shoulder, there was no distance between them. But we've heard in the recent months that have followed that he's putting more pressure to change the way they're prosecuting the war. Remember, he used the term indiscriminate bombing, which Netanyahu took offense to. And also this morning, Israel's political leadership is waiting to see how Hamas will react to the hostage release deal hammered out in Paris.

A spokesperson for Qatar's foreign ministry said yesterday Hamas has given initial positive confirmation to the proposal for a ceasefire and the release of hostages, but the group swiftly denied doing so. Join us now from Tel Aviv, NBC News foreign correspondent Matt Bradley. Matt, good morning. Hey, good morning. So yeah, we are seeing some positive signs from that hostage deal, but we have to remember that it's not just Hamas that's considering this. There's also the prime minister, the cabinet. They have to approve it, and they really have not yet. And what I've been hearing from the prime minister's office is that this is still under deliberation, and there are far-right elements in this cabinet, and this is the most right-wing cabinet, arguably, in Israeli history, who disapprove of this. And

we've also heard from Benjamin Netanyahu himself, he said recently more than once, that he's not going to free thousands of Palestinians, that he's not going to free thousands of Palestinians and he's not going to withdraw the army from the Gaza Strip. So these are two terms that Hamas might disagree with. And it sounds like Hamas is kind of changing its tune over the past couple of weeks. But this is still something that, you know, when we hear from the Israelis, they're not necessarily saying that this is an imminent deal, even if we are hearing some more positive signals from Hamas. But that having been said, this could change at any time. Guys, Arabic lessons at the State Department back in the day. No, no. Just such a speak.

OK, thank you so much. All right, Matt Bradley, thank you very much. And obviously, Jonathan Lemire, just Lemire still here? I am. There he is. So, John, can you talk about the relation? We'll go back to what we were talking about a minute ago, the relationship between Netanyahu and the pressure that President Biden may be putting on him privately. And as I said, you know, we see out in media reports as well that the White House is sort of keen for the world to know that he is breaking with Netanyahu at certain moments during this war. Let's look here. There's a difference between the two men knowing each

other for a long time, which they have, and being friends for a long time, which they are not. There has been a sources of detention between Biden and Netanyahu for decades, time dating back to President Biden's time in the Senate and as Barack Obama's vice president. Let's recall, it was just a few months ago, before the war, where President Biden was sharply critical of Bibi Netanyahu's plans to reshape the judicial system there in Israel. He called it undemocratic. So there's a lot of tension there. And, of course, only increased with Netanyahu's stubborn refusal

to go support a true state system. So, John, what's the timing? Because, again, we hear that the president is ready to publicly break with Netanyahu. And, you know, a lot of people may think cynically it has to do with Michigan. It doesn't have to do with Michigan. That's just like, you know, he did what he did in Afghanistan because of what he saw in Afghanistan going back to 2009 and the corruption there. Here with Netanyahu, he's always seen Netanyahu as an obstacle to a two state solution. He's he's seen with anger and disgust what's what's happened in

the West Bank with radical settlers ripping Palestinians out of their homes and committing acts of violence in the West Bank? This isn't something that, you know, has just happened. So I am wondering what what's going to be the trigger for for him to finally have enough and publicly break from Netanyahu? Well, a step in the process, aides tell me, is going to be this weekend. Secretary of State Blinken back to the region, which will include a stop in Israel. He's expected to deliver some pretty tough messages to Netanyahu about Israel's conduct in the war and its vision for the days after the war. Aides are not saying when President Biden will publicly break with Israel when he ramps up the public pressure. He has been slowly doing it, but he hasn't reached hasn't gone full throttle just yet. There is an expectation, though, that his patience is running out, that at a certain point, this the equation and how Israel is handling this has to change.

President Biden describes me as being very frustrated with Netanyahu. The men, the two men went weeks without speaking until they did connect on the phone again a few days ago. There are no plans yet, I am told, for the president to deliver another speech about Israel. And that might be the moment where he would upbraid Netanyahu and what he is doing. But they haven't ruled that out yet either. That's something that they're they're keeping in reserve. And there is a sense the clock is certainly ticking in terms of President Biden's patience here. All right. Coming up, we'll have the latest on the efforts to track down the migrants who assaulted two police officers in Times Square. Plus, we'll be joined by the NYPD's chief of patrol, John Schell.

Morning Joe's coming right back. Yesterday, we told you about a group of migrants who attacked two NYPD officers over the weekend. The controversy around that. Five suspects now arrested after the attack and released without bail. Multiple sources familiar with their matter tell news for New York. Four of those suspects have fled the state, boarding a bus for the California-Mexico border under false names. Willie, Willie, who could have ever seen that coming? Exactly. Who could have ever seen that coming? I mean, seriously, the idiocy of it all. And now two more suspects have been arrested in connection to the attack, both

charged with robbery, felony assault. But the D.A.'s office chose not to prosecute one of them, setting a lack of evidence that that person was involved. The other was arraigned yesterday on fifteen thousand dollars cash bail. In a new statement, New York Governor Kathy Hochul is hardening her stance on the suspects, outright calling for. In a new statement, New York Governor Kathy Hochul is hardening her stance on the suspects, outright calling for them now to be deported. In response to a question on the assaults, she said, get them all and send them back, end quote. Let's bring in NYPD's Chief of Patrol John Schell, also with us for the conversation, president of the National Action Network and host of MSNBC's Politics Nation,

Reverend Al Sharpton. Good morning to you both. Good morning, everybody. Chief, let's start with you. Just first, your reaction when you saw the video of your officers being beaten right in the middle of Times Square. Disgusted, angry. As a citizen who lives here, I'm saying to myself, what happened? As a cop, I wish I could be there to help him. And as a chief patrol, you know, how did we get here? And why did this happen? We're up to 14 people versus two. 14 versus two. As you mentioned, seven arrested. One finally got bailed. But before they got arrested that day, after our cops got up and still did their job and made some radio transmissions they were in front of a judge and we just don't understand why bail wasn't requested but that doesn't mitigate that the judge could have looked at the circumstances i don't know if she saw the video

we don't know yet but she had the opportunity to step in and say well hold on a second wait wait but she knew that cops had been beaten up by these guys, right? Absolutely. She knew that and she still didn't hold them? Apparently not. And now we take the next level. They walk out the door. They're on a bus somewhere in America going somewhere right now. And they had insult to injury to all of us.

And we're very benevolent people in New York City. To give us literally the finger on the way out the door. This is a host of issues we've got to talk about. And it stops right here. Chief, do we know, was bail requested, and then the judge declined that? Or do we know how that played out?

For the four that are arrested that day, bail was not requested. But the judge had an opportunity to obviously override that and say, nope, I'm going to remand you and we'll take it from there. Was the video played in court? We don't know that answer, but it shouldn't matter. Right. For attack, too. And, you know, with the difference between good and evil, that's not acceptable. And if we talked about this yesterday, this is a confluence of a lot of really bad events you've got. And the mayor has said,

you know, we we've got a problem with illegal immigrants. You can't keep sending illegal immigrants our way. We've got to take care of the problem with the border, which, of course, right now, House Republicans don't want to pass that bill to do it. And and then you've got, you know, you've got so-called bell reform that allows people to beat the hell out of cops and then walk and then flee. I mean, we've got to circle back and city council's got to step up. The governor's got to step up. A lot of people that have passed a lot of bad laws need to step up and fix this situation. You have, as he, the chief, said, a confluence of issues here.

You have the immigration issue. You have the border issue. You have the issue of bail reform, which I say could be bail deformed when people take advantage of the reform that many of us advocated. But when you get. And by the way, you talked about this yesterday, violence. When you're talking about violent acts. And let me just add on top of that, violence against cops, against people who are supposed to protect New Yorkers at that point.

Come on. You're right. That's that's not reform. And as as as he can tell you, many of us fought to get more blacks and Latinos on the force. So, I mean, are we telling kids now be a cop, but you can get your behind beat and we're going to call it reform? No reform is those that should be incarcerated or shouldn't be held because of financial reasons. But all the way from Border Patrol down, I think that the issues have to be dealt with. But none of them, none of them justify beating policemen for any reason. This is not political. This is criminal.

And I think that, as I said yesterday on the show, I have an office of National Action Network right in Times Square. This happened right near there. We cannot keep allowing. I was in Texas last night giving a speech. The habits of the world keep sending migrants in here and not being dealing with that issue. And then we get here with all of the legitimate things we may disagree with. With some of the policing have in the middle of that civil debate have this kind of thing going. I challenge a lot of my progressive friends. They need to step up like I have and say, wait a minute, this is not what we condone.

This is not what's not acceptable. Chief, just watching that video, they're assaulting other people like any kind of assault. I mean, and then on top of it, obviously, it's police officers. Can you explain how bail reform that's taken place means that you can assault someone and then just kind of walk out without any consequences? Well, this was bail eligible. But I think the bigger question is, like, how do we get here? Like I had twenty two hundred cops assaulted last year or attempted to be assaulted. There are no consequences. So if there's no consequences, it's not a freebie to attack my cops.

And if there's no consequences, you're going to keep doing it. Why are there not consequences? Are the judges anti-cop? Are the prosecutors not tough enough? Why are there not consequences? This is what we feel as some of us, like the good guys have become the bad guys and the bad guys have become victims. Right. You know, this whole philosophy change, you know, bad reforms, part of it, some legislative changes, some rule changes recently in our city council. It just seems like everything's against us, but we'll keep doing our job and we do it well. But sometimes we're up against it and we're trying to hold the city together.

Our cops out there are trying to hold the city together. Our communities with our cops are trying to hold the city together. It just seems sometimes we're up against it. And we're grateful for it. I hope you know that. No, I appreciate it. We all are. We are so grateful. As you know better than anybody, the bail reform five years ago took away judges' discretion. That has gotten incrementally better, I think you would agree. Judges at least can say, no, that person's dangerous. They need to stay. Has it gotten a little bit better over the last five years, would you say? It's gotten a little better. We agree with, to the rep's point, some of the bail reform we agree with. You know, some students sit in jail for a minor crime because they can't come up with $100 and sit there. That's not fair. We agree with that. But the biggest

issue now with bail reform, there's two big issues we asked a big change for. For the judges to say, hey, in this particular case, I'm taking you off the street. You're a danger to our communities. That's number one. Number two, the discovery laws that are thrust upon our DA's office is really hurting them. The amount of paperwork they have to do for a case and their staffing levels are down. They can't prosecute everything the way they could have pre-2020. So those are two things that we asked for that didn't get changed yet. To your point, has it gotten a little better? Sure. If it was a lot better, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

I want to ask you just generally the level of support you're getting we we all obviously remember the terrible tragedy of george floyd in 2020 um the millions and millions of americans that went out and marched in protest and uh then unfortunately the backlash uh against because of what some bad cops did, backlash against, it seems to me, all cops. And the Rev and I have talked about this for for a long time, that because of that backlash against cops and an overreaction in most cases. It's actually neighborhoods where they're New Yorkers and people of color who are suffering the most. You look at the crime rates that have skyrocketed over the past four years. You look at the violence, you look at the rape, you look at the assaults, everything. It's in neighborhoods where, for the most part with people of color are predominantly living there. And so I'm curious, are you starting to notice more support coming out of 2020 than you

may have felt a year or two ago? Or are you guys still back on your heels? Because we're hearing this, by the way. I hear this from cops in Philly. I hear this from cops in D.C. I hear this from cops in San Francisco. All across America, this has been a problem. Are we starting to see a slight change where you feel like you guys and women

are getting a little more support? So the communities across the city, white, black, Hispanic, green, blue, those are the people that support us. They've known us for a long time. We're tight with all our communities. The fringe element that don't reside in the city, I think those are the ones you're talking about that constantly attack us. But the homegrown Black Association presidents, our community leaders have been in each community from Harlem to Coney Island to Staten Island to Manhattan.

They've never left us. And that's the story here. The fringes, different conversation, but the communities have always supported us because we work together. We work together for years. We can't we can't work independent of each other. We've got to be dependent on each other. And that's never changed. And would you agree with that? Because you always talk about people being so woke that that they're kind of asleep at the switch. No, I think that the extremes on on both sides of this argument get far more space than they should. The extremes that are just anti-police, no matter how accountable police are, and the extremes in the police that would put a knee on someone's neck.

And I think that what has to happen is those that are the majority need to speak up when it's a bad cop. Cops should say, that's a bad guy. We're not supporting him. He should be punished. And when it's the same in our community, especially if you're doing violence against cops, we need to step up and say, wait a minute, that's wrong. That hurts our community and it hurts us. Let's not forget just two years ago, the majority of blacks in this city voted for a cop named Eric Adams to be mayor. Right. So don't act like this is that we're anti cop., we're anti-bad cop, and good cops are anti-bad citizens.

And that's where we've got to make this meet. But I don't think either side can excuse what happened on Times Square. So, Chief Schell, as we let you go here and get back to work this morning, what would be the one thing, if you were talking to the city council or the governor or whatever it is, what would make, within reasonable bounds, your job easier and the city council or the governor or whatever it is, what would make within reasonable bounds your job easier and the city safer? Change those bail reforms I just spoke about. Give the DAs a chance to do their job like they did. And with just certain crimes, no one in the city and the community cops can tolerate. And there's got to be consequences for your actions. Assaulting cops, driving down the street 100 miles an hour with no consequences.

This affects our communities, our city. It's a quality of life issue, a crime issue. And if we get that done, we'll be back to where we should be. We still have the safest big city in the world. Yeah. I'm not going to get off that. Yeah. Our mayor supports us tremendously.

He's a crime fighter. The next cop, he allows us to do our jobs, allows me to do my job. Holds us highly accountable. So that's good crime fighter. The next cop, he allows us to do our jobs, allows me to do my job, holds us highly accountable. So that's good in place. We just got to change some of these rules, and we'll be back in business. All right, fantastic. And I can say, since he's been chief, when I lead marches and get arrested, he says, use plastic handcuffs.

We put them in a special van. NYPD Chief of Patrol John Schell, thanks for being here and thanks for your service to our city. We appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Great day. Thank you, Chief. We're so grateful. Thank you, sir. All right.