Morning Joe - Morning Joe 2/7/23

Episode Date: February 7, 2023

Biden's State of the Union address will make his case for re-election in 2024

Putin sought to shake the very foundations of the free world, thinking he could make it bend to his menacing ways. But he badly miscalculated. He thought he could roll into Ukraine and the world would roll over. Instead, he met with a wall of a wall of strength he never imagined. He met the Ukrainian people. That was President Biden 11 months ago delivering his second State of the Union address days after Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Tonight, his speech is going to be heavily focused on reminding Americans what his administration has accomplished over the past two years. It comes as Ukraine is now preparing for a major Russian offensive. We'll have more on the mobilization of troops in Putin's army.

Meanwhile, we are learning more about the Chinese surveillance balloon that was shot down and other incidents that went undetected by U.S. forces. Also ahead, the latest from Turkey and Syria, where the death toll is rising following a massive earthquake and rescuers continue to hold out hope of finding survivors. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Tuesday, February 7th. The death toll from that powerful earthquake in Syria and Turkey has passed000 and continues to climb. A 7.8 magnitude quake hit the region early yesterday, along with multiple aftershocks, including a 7.5 magnitude one that struck just hours later. Tens of thousands have been injured and search and rescue efforts are underway to find people who may still be trapped under the rubble. More than 6,000 buildings collapsed in Turkey, according to a state-run news agency. The earthquake also brought new devastation to war-ravaged Syria, a region already plagued by a 12-year civil war and humanitarian crisis.

NBC News foreign correspondent Matt Bradley has more on one of the deadliest disasters in years. In Turkey, buildings still falling as the heartbreaking death toll sadly keeps rising. The fear now, more aftershocks. This one captured on live television. The reporter starts to run. You can hear a building crashing down behind him. Later, finding a family that somehow made it out alive. That quake hitting 12 hours after the first earthquake. A magnitude 7.8 captured on security cameras, bringing down buildings in an instant. Here, rescuers are combing through rubble when another building collapses nearby.

Rescuers racing to find survivors still trapped. My grandson is 18 months old. Please help my family, she begged, saying her missing relatives had been on the 12th floor. The quake hit along the Turkey-Syria border. In Syria, volunteer rescue workers from the White Helmets were used to rescuing civilians from bombings. Many of these victims, refugees who had already lost their homes in war. Like 18-month-old Ragat. Rescuers saved her life, but her pregnant mother, brother and sister were killed. The ceiling had directly fallen on them, said Raghab's uncle. One survivor in northwest Syria described emergency crews' desperation. Some few people working in their bare hands. For this region, afflicted by war and now an earthquake, help can't come soon enough. Turkey has taken in 3.6 million Syrian refugees, many of whom were affected by the earthquake.

The United Nations says 2.7 million Syrians live in the northwestern part of the country near Turkey's border and the quake's epicenter. The U.N. says its refugee agency is not fully operational because of damage to its offices and warehouse. Now, several nations, including the U.S., are sending rescue personnel and supplies to the region. President Biden called Turkey's president yesterday to express his condolences and coordinate aid. Teams from Virginia's Task Force One and the Los Angeles County Fire Department will be deployed, as well as U.S.-supported humanitarian groups. We will get a live report from the devastated region ahead in our next hour of Morning Joe. Willie? Yeah, we woke up this morning to a death toll over 5,000, that number expected to only go

up from here. As you said, the United States, among many, many nations, sending rescue teams in to help. We'll come back to this story in just a moment. Back here at home, President Biden says the suspected Chinese spy balloon incident will not damage diplomatic relations between Washington and Beijing. Speaking to reporters outside the White House yesterday, the president commented on China's decision to fly a surveillance balloon over the United States and his administration's decision to shoot it down. thing. And there's not a question of weakening or strengthening. It's just the reality. Why the Chinese would commit such a brazen act floating across the entire continent of the United States? Because of the Chinese government. A little laugh from the president there. We're learning more about the balloon's design now.

The commander of NORAD says it was 200 feet tall. For frame of reference, that's about four times the size of the Snoopy balloon at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. As of yesterday, the balloon's debris field was about 1,500 meters by 1,500 meters, or 15 football fields by 15 football fields. It's huge. Meanwhile, defense officials acknowledge they have failed to detect suspected Chinese surveillance balloons in the past. This is not the first time, and only learned about them later from intelligence agencies. The

commander of North Northern Command and North American Aerospace Defense Command do contrast between the previous lapses and the suspected spy balloon that was shot down on Saturday. But he did describe a surveillance gap and said the U.S. is trying to figure out why the earlier flights went undetected. General Glenn Van Herk said, quote, I will tell you that we did not detect those threats. And that's a domain awareness gap that we have to figure out a domain awareness gap. Joe, that's a good euphemism. We have to start using that one. But the fact of the matter was this was huge. The president decided in the middle of last week that he wanted to shoot it down.

The Department of Defense said, we agree we can shoot it down, but let's wait till it gets out over water. And now we're getting an idea of how big this was. Balloon seems like an understatement at this point to describe this thing. It was massive. And by the way, domain awareness gap. I wish I had had that in high school during my math exams. I'm sorry, ma'am, I can't complete this test. I have a domain awareness gap as pertains to trig. Yeah. So, you know, Joe Biden laughed when asked why, why do they do it? And of course, his answer was because the Chinese did it. I always said this during all the information

about the Russians using misinformation, disinformation, but also spying on us one way or the other. And I sort of smiled and laughed because we do that to Russia, too. And we do that to China, too. I mean, part of him him laughing, he couldn't say it. And I'm sorry, I might offend a lot of people when I say it, but it's like grow up. This is this is what superpowers have done since they've become superpowers. Satellites are flying over us right now. They're flying over China right now. I thought Mark Polymeropoulos said it best yesterday when he said, yes, OK, so, yes, this this balloon is one of like 30 or 40 ways that the Chinese spy on us. It's not even in the top 20 of what our intel agencies should be concerned about.

Of course, because it is floating overhead in the United States, it's going to draw attention. But I think there is actually I think there's a legitimate concern here. This this has happened at what, three, four times during the Trump administration. I probably happened before that. They do need to figure out how to detect these things earlier. I know we never heard about it during the Trump administration because they didn't talk about it or maybe they didn't pick it up until it left the country. But, yeah, it is a serious problem. On the bigger issue, though, let's bring in a host of way too early

White House bureau chief at Politico, Jonathan O'Meara. You know, I called around yesterday to to quite a few diplomats and everyone said the same thing about Anthony Blinken canceling his trip to China. We understand why he did it for domestic political reasons. But at the same time, that didn't make the world a safer place. China and the United States need to get together. They need to talk. And there was actually some pressure to reset that meeting as soon as possible, because, again, we're looking at Russia threatening to use nuclear weapons. China is a counterbalance to that. You talk about global

economic problems, global economic forces, us being able to coordinate with China in whatever ways we can economically. Also good for the world's economy. You could talk, of course, also about climate change. You could talk about one of 100 issues. The two world superpowers need to be talking. And so some people may have been caught off guard by what Joe Biden said yesterday. I certainly wasn't. And every diplomat I talked to yesterday said, these two countries need to get together and talk.

The balloon's gone. Now start talking again because the world's a much more dangerous place when the United States and China are not together talking. Yeah, there's no question. China spies in the U.S. The U.S. spies on China. Frankly, they may be spying on us on the TikTok app

that I know you have on your phone, Joe. That is perhaps of greater concern. By the way, on every phone I have, on all 12 phones I have, because my TikTok accounts, I live by. You have a few burners. I don't. But you are right, though. And I'm glad you brought up TikTok because while everybody was bitching and moaning about this balloon, I felt like saying, look down at your telephones, please.

Look down at your telephone. You want to talk about China's best surveillance of the United States? Look at your iPhone and not up in the sky. The problem is you. Yeah, they're listening to you. They're following your patterns on TikTok. Everything. It's bad. Yeah. And the idea, the problem with this balloon, it was just so blatant and it caught America's attention and therefore became this diplomatic snafu. To your point about the secretary of state's visit. In fact, I was on a call yesterday with John Kirby and the National Security Council spokesman who made clear this trip is not canceled. It was postponed. It will happen again. And he suggested, though no date has been set,

that they hope to have it sooner than later because of that long list of issues that you yourself, Justin Mendego, went through that these two superpowers need to talk about, particularly in the light of new reporting about how Chinese defense industries are still supporting, perhaps subtly, Russia's war effort. And then another final thought on timing, why this needs to happen soon. Let's remember, of course, the furor that erupted when Speaker Pelosi went to Taiwan last year and diplomatic relations between China and the U.S. The two countries basically stopped talking to each other for a few months until Presidents Biden and Xi met in Bali. Well, new Speaker McCarthy has made clear he plans to go to Taiwan and go to Taiwan soon. There's a sense here they want to try to warm relations even further before that happens. With all this as a backdrop, tonight, President Biden will give the State of the Union address.

Sources inside the White House say parts of that speech that addressed China are being edited after the shooting down of that Chinese surveillance balloon. Overall, the White House says the president wants to remind Americans of the progress that has been made since he took office, especially on the economy. The president is expected to call on Congress to pass legislation on his tax plan for billionaires, as well as a universal cap for insulin prices and police reform. Let's bring in the CEO of the Messina Group, Jim Messina. He served as White House deputy chief of staff to President Obama and ran his 2012 reelection campaign. Also with us, founder of the conservative website The Bulwark, Charlie Sykes. And Jim, first question in terms of the president and messaging tonight in terms of his accomplishments,

accomplishments, what does he need to do to really take ownership of the past two years? He needs to explain what he's done. Six and ten Americans don't know. That's not surprising. It's exactly what we went through on the Obama reelect. He's got to start to set the stage. You know, the bully pulpit of the president doesn't really exist anymore. He just has a couple of very big opportunities. This is the biggest one he's going to have. This is one time where the voters actually look in and say, OK, what's my president doing? What is he going to do to make my life better?

Tonight's an absolute crucial beginning of that conversation with the American voter. So, Joe, yes, and also voters will hear this, you know, huge response from Republicans all over the Internet. Many of them have podcasts of their own in leadership in the Senate. So it is hard to get a solid message across in this current atmosphere. He's got the bully pulpit. I mean, to to quote the line from the Michael Wolff book that I that headline television is the new television. The bully pulpit is the new bully pulpit, which is to say the more things change, the more they stay the same. And Charlie Sykes, I remember being so frustrated to Bill Clinton. He'd sit there and had drawn on for like an hour and a half,

halfway through his State of the Union speech. I'd be like, man, I'm going to go lie down in the cloakroom, wake me up near the end so I can get up and applaud. But he'd just go, and I was like, you know what? He's put America to sleep. No, he didn't. His State of the Union addresses, I learned a valuable lesson. Those things are powerful. And you just drive home accomplishment after accomplishment. What should, you know, Wisconsin politics so well, what should Joe Biden talk about tonight to get to Wisconsin voters, to show Wisconsin voters that their vote for him in 2020 made sense and a vote for him in 2024 would be a good bet as well. Well, what he's got to do is he has to talk about a substantive record. And I think that's what's

going to be interesting tonight is to watch the contrast between the president talking about a substantive record and the performative House majority, how they respond to him. Because, of course, they're going to be under a lot of pressure from their base to engage in the kind of tantrums that we saw last time. It'll be interesting to see how Kevin McCarthy responds. But what he's got to do is he actually has to start using the bully pulpit. And, you know, I have to admit, Joe, that having spent about 40 years watching these State of the Unions, I am a little bit jaded because they they're surrounded by a lot of hype and a lot of, you know, a lot of pomp and circumstance. I'm trying to remember one that actually moved the needle.

But Joe Biden has to begin to break through to the American people, which he has not done so far. And he has not really used the bully pulpit in all the ways that other presidents have done. He hasn't had a lot of Oval Office addresses. There have not been a lot of these set pieces. So he's got to make the most of this moment. But I think that it would be somewhat naive to think that this is going to be a transformative moment. This is going to be a long slog where this White House is going to have to, you know, buckle down and realize that it has to tell its story and it has to tell it over and over and over and over again in the face of what's going to be a lot of smoke and mirrors coming up from the opposition. And again, I don't expect the speech to be particularly riveting, but I am going to be watching the response from the Republicans, who, of course, again, you know, managed to manage to make quite a spectacle of themselves a year ago.

And Donald Trump has promised a video at the end of this, too. We'll watch for that. Jonathan Lemire, we know that talking to the White House these last several months in particular, but really the last couple of years, some of the frustration they feel about not having their accomplishments acknowledged or recognized. You look at that poll from The Washington Post, 62 percent of Americans feel that President Biden has accomplished very little, not very much, whatever the term was. The wrong track number in the Monmouth poll yesterday was at 73 percent. They say we came in during a pandemic. We passed one point nine trillion dollars in that rescue package to save businesses, to help families. Health care has

expanded. More people insured than were before. Unemployment at three point four percent. You know the litany. So how does the president break through that, number one? And number two, is this in some ways a unofficial launch of his reelection campaign if he does, in fact, decide to run again? Yeah, it's being perceived as a soft launch. We certainly won't hear him tonight declare his candidacy. That's probably not coming for at least a few weeks, if not a couple of months. But this is his biggest chance this year to talk about what his administration has done and also themes going forward. And White House aides have told me, we just talked, Charlie just mentioned, last year at the State of the Union, Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, literally standing up and heckling and yelling at the president. Well, they hope that happens again,

the White House aides, because they think it draws a really sharp contrast between their sort of radical rhetoric and incendiary behavior versus the president's, they say, somber, important leadership. We're also going to hear from tonight, certainly on the debt ceiling, saying, look, this is too important to negotiate. Like, we need to get this done. We should be above politics here and that that's too important to mess with Republicans. So, Jim Messina, you know, this is something where the White House, you know, to Charlie's point, he's going to be able to talk to Wisconsin voters tonight, but also tomorrow.

He's going to Wisconsin. I'll be part of that trip. With Republicans now in charge of the House, inherently tonight's speech is going to be a little bit backwards looking. Hey, here are the things that we've done. Because there's realization we're probably not going to get a lot done the next two years because of the roadblocks they're going to put up. But voters want to hear about the future, particularly voters who think the country's on the wrong track. How does the president thread that needle tonight? You know, it's the hardest thing. We went through this with

Obama campaign exactly right. What he's got to do is first set the stage and talk about what he did, why people's lives are better. And then he's got to look at some of the things that haven't gotten done that are wildly popular, child tax credits, some of these other things, and drive straight at it and say, this is what I will do to make your life better. He can and must do both. He can walk and chew gum. And tomorrow he's going to the most important state in America in a presidential campaign, Wisconsin, where we've seen a manufacturing boom and really go straight at it and say, if you like what you've seen so far, wait till we continue this progress for the next two years. He has an amazing record to sell.

He's got an ability to do it now that he's have to go out to the earlier point and do it over and over and over again. Well, and let's underline that fact, too, that that Americans, you know, if they don't think the guy's accomplished much, they just aren't paying attention. And they aren't paying attention, obviously, because of all the distractions that are going on. But you look at the fact that unemployment's at a 50-year low. Childhood poverty's at a 50-year low.

There's been a massive bipartisan infrastructure bill that's passed. There's been bipartisan gun safety legislation that's passed. One thing after another over the past couple years, we've talked about it a good bit, Jim. So my question is, if you're if you're writing the president's speech, are you more concerned in repeating those things? I know you say you can do both, but what's your emphasis? Repeating those two things or actually daring to go in to the Republican House and just marking the contrast by the fact that, you know, a lot of people that are running the House of Representatives now were insurrectionists, weirdos and freaks? I'd go straight at what he has done. I'd stay very focused on the economic stuff. He was the first president to win a presidential campaign

and lose the economic argument in 2020. The Democrats right now trail the Republicans on the economic argument. You and I have talked ad nauseum about this. And Democrats have to seize this moment. This is his bully pulpit moment. He needs to tell the American people what he did and what he's going to do to make their life better. He can go at the insurrectionists a little bit later. Yeah. Although I do think the midterms are won a lot because people don't like insurrections

and they like democracy. It's true. And he stuck to that when others were thinking, what about this? What about that? We'll talk about this more. In fact, still ahead on Morning Joe, we'll be joined by White House Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre, head of President Biden's State of the Union address tonight. Plus, new polling is taking a look at what most Americans think of the House GOP's so-called weaponization committee. We're digging into those new numbers. Also this morning, one of the most prominent groups within Republican politics, Club for Growth, has invited several potential GOP

presidential candidates to its annual donor retreat next month. And one big name is not on the list. And Ukraine bracing for a renewed Russian offensive later this month as the war nears the one-year mark. We'll take a look at where things stand overseas. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. And the laugh in myself Why the tears roll down Cause it's the world I know Oh, it's the world I know

This is getting interesting. There's a group of small government conservatives who created an organization a very long time ago called Club for Growth. I knew a lot of people that were on the ground floor of that organization and they believed in balanced budgets. They believed in less government. They believed in the sort of things that small government conservatives believe in. Sadly, during the age of Trump, it completely got twisted around beyond recognition, just like the conservative movement, just like the Republican Party.

And they became hacks. Nothing more, nothing more than hacks for Donald Trump. Shameless. I mean, my God, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. And I know that two of my close friends that were there on the ground floor who passed away would have been so disappointed to see how how they cheapened themselves so badly for for for a guy that was the biggest spending president in the history of the United States. Why do I say this? I say this because we heard about the Koch network yesterday. And by the way, the Koch brothers and Charles Koch never made any secret of the fact they had no use for Donald Trump. Club for Growth, completely different. But now Club for Growth, completely different. But now, Club for Growth. They're inviting a lot of potential presidential candidates to its annual donor retreat next month in Florida.

One notable exception, Donald J. Trump. Wow. And the group's president, a guy I know, a guy I served in Congress with, came in together with him in 94. David McIntosh said the Republican Party's chances of retaking the White House in 2024 would be diminished if Donald Trump were the nominee. That is a big change. The New York Times report said, according to McIntosh, the party should be open to another candidate and suggested that Republicans had already lost too many elections with Mr. Trump as a face of the party. My God. My God. Interesting. They're starting to look up and notice that they lost in 2017 because of Trump, 2018 because of Trump, 2019 because of

Trump. They lost in 2020 because of Trump. They lost in 2021 because of Trump. They lost in 2022 because of Trump. And if Trump's their nominee, they'll lose in 2024. But McIntosh added that Trump had proved to be toxic among general election voters. Adding the Republicans that lost elections. All right, there you go. 18, 20, 22 on the former president's watch. The Republicans who were invited to the retreat include Rhonda Santis, Nikki Haley, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, Tim Scott, and Glenn Youngkin. The Club for Growth spent nearly $150 million

over the past two election cycles, and a spokesman for Trump declined to comment to the Times and instead pointed to three social media posts two weeks ago in which the former president repeatedly attacked the club. Charlie Sykes. You know, Charlie, you know, you know, two of my two of my first supporters, guys that

supported me in 1994 when I had no chance of winning, no chance at all. I was a 30 year old guy that nobody believed in. But these two guys said, you know what, Scarborough, you're a small government conservative and we know you go up there and fight and we don't care. We don't care. We'll waste our money. Take it. And then they did the same thing with Club for Growth because they believe they didn't care about Republicans. They didn't care about Democrats. They cared about fiscal responsibility. And to see what happened with Club for Growth over the past three, four or five years, I'm just it's repulsive. It's gross. It's just the worst form of hackery. But this is a big change. The fact that now they're turning on

the guy that they've been shamelessly defending. Actually, that's that that's even a bit more of a tipping point for me than Charles Koch doing it, because, as I said before, Charles never made any secret of the fact he didn't like Donald Trump. Yeah. OK, so I'm having flashbacks now, Joe, because and by the way, your language to describe what happened to the the club is is not an overstatement at all. I mean, the hackery, it burned. I mean, I remember back in 2016 where the Club for Growth actually was at that time very anti-Trump. In fact, in Wisconsin, during the Wisconsin primary, they ran ads, anti-Trump ads explaining how to block Trump. And then, as you described, David McIntosh and the other hacks at the Club for Growth got on board. They made the bargain with Trumpism and they

basically vanished and became a creature of the donor class. So, I mean, yes, it's good that they're recognizing that perhaps this is a bad course. I'm a little skeptical about whether or not the Koch Network and the Club for Growth are really going to change the dynamics. But maybe they provide a permission structure for other donors, other conservatives to begin backing away from Trump. But I did a podcast the other day with Rick Wilson, and we were both remembering how donors in 2016 were all lined up against Trump. You know, we would have these conversations, you know, we can't we got to stop

him. What are we going to do? One by one, each and every one of them got on board when they saw which way the wind was blowing. So right now, hockey, a good game. The question is, if their whole critique is he can't win, what happens if he starts winning? What happens if the polls start turning? What happens to their critique? And each of these groups, each of these guys, because they have a long track record of hackery, I think are likely to flip-flop and get back on board. Yeah. Here's a problem for him, Willie. I mean, we can say it right now. If Trump runs, Trump's probably going to win primary contests in the Republican Party. Him winning the Republican Party, that's not the issue. Like Democrats hope Democrats pray.

Democrats are hoping beyond hope that Donald Trump is nominated because he's a loser in general elections. He'll never win the suburbs of Atlanta again. He'll never win the suburbs of Philly again. He'll never win the swing voters that he needs to win. So the question is whether they're stupid enough, whether these donors are stupid enough and short sightsighted enough to race to Donald Trump the second he starts winning Republican primary contests, because that's not the issue. This guy can win Republican primary contests. He'll just lose them another four years in the White House. And that's exactly the point David McIntosh, who runs the Club for Growth, made yesterday in that New York Times piece,

which is that it's not necessarily a principled objection to Donald Trump. They just said, look at the last three elections. He's lost them all. He dragged us down. The Club for Growth last fall in the midterm elections ran against Donald Trump in a lot of races and won some of them and lost some of them. So they've they've now decided, as you say, one of those deathbed conversions that you say, you'll take it whenever you can get it. But here they are coming back off, for now anyway, the Trump train. And I guess, Jim Messina, to Charlie's point,

you know, the money flows where the power is. And if Donald Trump emerges again as the leader of the party, if he starts winning again, and some of these people who've jumped into the race don't really look like someone who can beat Donald Trump in a primary, does the club for growth, does the Koch network, do those evangelical groups who started to walk away from him, do they

really stay away from Donald Trump or they say, well, I guess he's the guy. We better back him. No, Willie, that's exactly right. They're going to go right back and support him. This is about power. And this is them saying we have to be with a guy who is the nominee. And so this deathbed conversion is wonderful. We're all excited about it. It doesn't matter because they'll be right there if he's the Republican nominee for president.

And let me just be clear, and I completely agree with the previous speaker. Donald Trump will lose to Joe Biden. He will absolutely lose. Joe Biden will mop the floor with him in a general election. And you have nothing to look at in the Pennsylvania Senate race where the most predictive factor of how voters are going to vote in the Pennsylvania Senate race was their view of Donald Trump, not the sitting president, Joe Biden, not Fetterman, not Dr. Oz. It was their view of Donald Trump. And that is just proof of how Donald Trump is toxifying the Republican Party and will continue. Yeah, and it took years.

And the point Willie's made about principled objections, that's not what this is about. Republicans are not walking away from Donald Trump because of January 6th, because of his behavior on COVID, because he had dinner with a white supremacist, because of any of that, because of Helsinki, we can go down the list. It is because he lost. And for the first time, it's sticking to him. He is being blamed for the defeats in November, which should have been a very good Republican cycle and turned out not to be. But stunning. Yeah, stunningly so. But of course, you can't beat something with nothing. So there's going to have to be another Republican who does step to the forefront, who is able to beat Trump. Most eyes on Governor DeSantis, but he's an unproven national commodity. We'll have to see about that in the months ahead.

And we know that Republicans are going to start jumping in. Nikki Haley next week, she'll be the first. It'll go from there. The bigger the field, Joe, also the sense that's probably better for Trump as well. But it is certainly telling right now that some of these money groups, these interest groups, powerful voices in the Republican Party want nothing to do with them. Right. And, you know, the word I think the operative word that I heard was permission structure. Jim Messina. I mean, we know how we know how the donor class is in both parties, okay?

You know what I mean? I remember early on when Barack Obama was a young senator, I said, this guy's never going to beat Hillary Clinton. There's no way he's going to beat Hillary Clinton. This was in 2007. The Clinton machine is going to just be mine. And then I saw his his 2000s, his first financial report. I was like, whoa. OK, now that's going to provide permission structure to other donors to say maybe I'll take a chance on this young guy, too. And of course, they did in this case. So it's a little more, uh, it's a little more complicated, isn't it? Because people start writing checks. They want their person to immediately start winning. I don't know who the adult in the room is who can say, listen, Trump's going to win some primaries if he runs, but we can't panic and run to high ground. Uh, you know, the second that

happens or else this guy's going to win the nomination again and lose for us again in the general election. Jerry, you're exactly right. The grassroots of both parties gets to decide it. And, you know, they fuel Barack Obama on the left. The grassroots fuel Donald Trump. His fundraising machine is still amazing at the small dollar level. That has not abated at all.

There needs to be leadership in the Republican Party to pull the party together and say, to Jonathan's point, we can't have 10 candidates. We can't have eight candidates. We've got to decide who the one or two people are that can actually win this primary and get rid of Donald Trump. And you don't see that happening at all.

The newly elected chair of the Republican Party is clueless and has no ability to do that. And so instead, everyone's going to jump in the pool and Donald Trump's going to be happy about it because he wants more candidates, not less. He loves chaos. He loves chaos. And that's how he becomes a Republican nominee if there's a chaos scenario like that. Jim Messina and Charlie Sykes, thank you both very much for coming on this morning. We'll be watching the State of the Union tonight with these thoughts in mind and coming up while the president prepares for his big speech on Capitol Hill tonight. One of our next guests

says we won't really know the State of the Union for another 21 months. We'll explain what's at stake in the next presidential election. Plus, former Governor Asa Hutchinson is weighing a potential bid for the White House in 2024. The Arkansas Republican joins us straight ahead on Morning Joe. We'll be right back. Hi, welcome back. Good morning, Joe. It's 643 in Washington, D.C.

You're looking, of course, beautiful shot of the White House. The president is going to be delivering the State of the Union. And let's bring in right now former governor of Arkansas, Republican Asa Hutchinson. Asa, governor, congressman, all these things. It's good to see you again. I'm just curious. Tell me, if you were delivering the State of the Union tonight, what would you be saying about the United States right now? What is our State of the Union? Well, one, it's great to see you, Joe.

And this is an incredible opportunity. I mean, if you're president, timing is everything. And, you know, there's a lot of interest with the Chinese spy balloon that crossed the United States. He's got an opportunity to provide some new information, some new insights. He hasn't spoken to this dramatically or directly yet. And so this is very, very important opportunity to address the U.S.-China relations. And it will be newsy. It will be of great interest and very important to the future of America. So I think everybody's going to be sitting on the edge of their seats waiting for a discussion of that relationship, most importantly.

Governor, I know some people have talked about you possibly running for president of the United States. And I want you just for a minute, if we can. And you've been very good about not following everybody into sort of the weeds on partisanship. I get frustrated a lot of times on the show. And I did while Donald Trump was president. I did when Barack Obama was president before that. And I am now. Everybody's so negative about America. Everybody, you know, when when one party's out of power, they're talking about how weak the military is or how weak this is or how weak that is. And I'm just wondering, don't we need to stop more and say our military is incredible? The men and women in intelligence services, they aren't perfect, but you know what? They keep us safe. Our economy is resilient, whether there's a Democrat in the White House or a Republican in

the White House or a Democrat. This country is still what Ronald Reagan said, a city shining brightly on the hill for all the world to see, even in our worst times. Well, America needs to be encouraged with a big spirit of optimism about our country. There's a lot of negativity out there, and that's, to me, what a president should do is to bring out the best of america and give america hope that's what ronald reagan did he saw the

best days ahead and and that is where america is and you think about america's leadership and this is something worth fighting for in the republican party america needs to continue to lead we cannot step back because then who does lead the world? You have others that want to step up, but they're not the right ones to lead a free world. And so America has its place. We need to step up. We've got the greatest military in the world. We've got the greatest rule of law in the world. And that's what distinguishes our democracy. So let's focus on some of those things and focus on solutions. You know, we look at the borders challenging. I'm going to be having a border

solution summit down in Tucson coming up. And the reason for it is let's look at solutions and how you can bring people together, recognizing the vastness of that problem and what we can do about it in a positive way. That, to me, is what America is about. Governor, good morning. It's good to see you again. You're talking about issues. You're talking about solutions to problems. And it seems for large part, at least former President Trump and many other Republicans are playing small ball, talking about the past, talking about an election in 2020, former president tweeting or whatever truth socialing yesterday about the Pulitzer Prize awards given to The Washington Post many years ago, things like that. And you've said

that he should be disqualified for being the nominee because of his actions around January 6th. So with all that in mind and with the stories we've been talking about this morning, the Club for Growth wanting to move on, the Koch Network wanting to move on from Donald Trump, some evangelical groups now saying they want to do the same. What is the future in your eyes of the Republican Party? What should it look like if it is a post Donald Trump party, which, by the way, it's not yet, that's for sure. Well, it's important to remember that the American people still trust the Republican Party when it comes to handling the economy, when it comes to handling national security issues, the big issues that they face, they still trust Republican philosophy and ideas and solutions. But we have got sidetracked and we need to make a course correction.

And that sidetracked is because of Donald Trump and his revenge tour or wanting to get even out there with his latest person that offended him. And so we do need to talk about and get back to our ideas and solutions. wanting to get even out there with his latest person that offended him. And so we do need to talk about and get back to our ideas and solutions. To me, that's the most important thing in the next three months is the message, a conservative message that is solution oriented and optimistic about the future of the country. And wherever we have leaders like that, you're going to be bringing in and you're going to be bringing the Republican Party back to the balance that it has historically had. So, Governor, the Republican who has the biggest stage tonight to deliver that message is your

successor. You were term limited from the statehouse there in Arkansas. But Sarah Huckabee Sanders from a prominent Republican family, of course, Donald Trump's former press secretary, will be delivering the Republican response to the State of the Union tonight. What would you like her message to be? And what challenges do the voters in your state face? We're very proud of the fact that our governor, Governor Sanders, is going to be delivering the response. And this is the first time in the history of Arkansas, by the way, that we've gone from one Republican administration, mine, to another Republican

administration. So that's a great success story. And I thought that tonight that she focuses a little bit on her story and the fact that she is the first female governor ever elected in Arkansas. The fact that she has a story of family and that that she has. So I expect her to be hard hitting on President Biden because of policy directions that he has taken us the wrong way. But also, I hope that it is the positive solutions the Republican Party offers. It's a great opportunity for her. Proud that she's going to be conveying the message. I expect her to talk about the border. I would expect her to talk about inflation, the prices of eggs, things that impact our families.

Former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson, it's always good to have you on. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you, B. All right, still ahead, a look at some of the stories making front page headlines across the country, including one government agency benefiting from big tech layoffs. Plus, House Minority Whip Catherine Clark joins us with her guest for tonight's State of the Union, designed to highlight Democrats' fight for reproductive rights. Also joining us this morning, White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre. We'll be right back. Minutes before the top of the hour, we have an update on a big

story playing out in Ohio. The release of toxic chemicals that have been carried on a train that derailed over the weekend in the eastern part of the state. Officials had warned that the chemical could be deadly if inhaled. The release of vinyl chloride, a toxic flammable gas used to produce vehicle interiors and PVC piping, was completed late yesterday afternoon following evacuations of the surrounding area. Two of the train cars were believed to be filled with vinyl chloride contained 177,000 pounds of the chemical. The Environmental Protection Agency has been on site to monitor the air and water in the affected area. Initial observations from the National Transportation Safety Board, which is

leading the investigation into the derailment, include video and inspection evidence of a broken axle on one of the cars. No injuries have been reported. We'll follow that. And coming up, White House press secretaries past and present. Jen Psaki and Karine Jean-Pierre join us ahead of tonight's State of the Union address. Morning Joe will be right back. Beautiful shot of New York City. Welcome back to Morning Joe. It is Tuesday, February 7th. Jonathan Lemire is still with us and joining the conversation. Joe, look who's here in Washington. Well, actually, she's in New York. Former White House. I've got my press secretary is mixed up here. Former White House press secretary Jen Psaki, now an MSNBC host, joins us from New York along with Joe, Willie, and me.

Joe. You know, Miki, you and me, we're going to be pretty good at this after we do it for a little while. It's all about reps. It's all about reps. Get anything else. I'm waiting to get with Willie. Get in the cage. Get a couple more years of this.

We're going to get it down. I said, this is Vanity Fair. I didn't know this happened. I guess you guys, you know, I don't follow the news much in my business. I don't really have to. But this came out yesterday. And the headline is that Melania Trump was inexplicably in the situation room for the 2019 ISIS raid,

told Trump to, quote, talk about the dog afterwards. In a new book set for release this week by former Acting Secretary Christopher Miller, the ex-Trump administration official writes that Melania was inexplicably in the Situation Room during the raid that killed the then ISIS leader. Also in the room, Vice President Mike Pence, Defense Secretary Mark Esper, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Mark Milley.

And she just showed up, just walked in and showed up. And Miller writes, I mean, everybody was shocked that she was there and also was shocked that you could just walk into the Situation Room, casually sit down, and then she had this input at the end. It was Melania who came up with the idea about how to tell the American people about the mission. Quote, you should talk about the dog. Everybody loves dogs. I don't even know what to say. I'm Willie. Yeah, I mean, yeah, Willie, explain this for us,

if you will. Well, I'm reading some of the quotes from Mr. Miller. He says her presence was unexpected, to say the least. I wondered how it would play in the press if word got out that the first lady had popped in to watch a major military operation. Obviously, a massive breach of, well, security clearance for one thing and etiquette on the other hand, and the fact that it just speaks to no one would tell Donald Trump no in that administration. Hey, come on in, Melania. No one had the guts to stop and say, no, this is inappropriate and against all the rules that we've had in place for generations. Jonathan O'Meara, you're the expert on all things White House. Does this happen a good bit? Does Jill Biden go into the Situation Room when they're

reviewing sensitive information or targeting an ISIS leader? No, I think she's pitched to watch the Super Bowl. She's an Eagles fan in the Situation Room, perhaps. But no, this has not happened. It points to breakdowns in security clearance. It showed we know that security clearance was a hot topic during the Trump White House, that Trump, Jared Kushner and Melania Trump, you know, got theirs over the chief of staff's objections at the time. It's a breakdown of processes. Again, we should note, though, Lion Trump was right about the role Conan,

Conan the hero dog, played in the ISIS. She got the hero dog thing right. She got the hero dog thing right, and it did become a pretty big story for a couple of days. So that's the one thing she did get right. This is ridiculous. She is right that everybody loves dogs. Everybody loves dogs.

Yeah, I mean, who doesn't? I do. Who doesn't love dogs? So she got that right. She got that, yeah. She got get right. Ridiculous. She is right that everybody loves dogs. Everybody loves dogs. Yeah, I mean, who doesn't? I do. Who doesn't love dogs? So she got that right. She got that. She got that right. So, Jen Psaki, what say you? Did this happen a lot in the White House when you were around?

You know, I'm not going to beat around the bush here, Joe. I've never seen a first lady walk into the Situation Room. I've worked for two presidents, two amazing first ladies. Never. You know, the dogs, I don't know what their security clearances are or how that works. Never seen a dog in the situation room either. I mean, it's also, this is an ISIS raid. I mean, what on earth was the first lady doing there for the security clearance reasons, but also to talk about the dog or anything else. That's that's bizarre, too. So, no, this is not normal. I think it's important to restate that as much as possible around Trump

and never seen it happen in the two White Houses. I've worked it not normal. Also, not into the world. Just kind of weird. Weird. Totally. And I could see how the chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the secretary of defense would look around and say, what is this? Is this a reality TV show? What's going on? The wife's coming in talking about a dog. That's very weird. So, Willie, let's let's transition here. A smooth transition and talk about the Super Bowl press week this week. We haven't had a chance to talk so far.

But I've got to tell you, this is one of the first Super Bowls where I'm, I mean, I love both the teams. I grew up a Kansas City Chiefs fan. I remember one of those early Super Bowls, you know, Lynn Dawson sitting on the bench smoking a cigarette. I'm at home five years old, dude, smoking a cigarette and saying, I want to be like my hero, Len, number 16. I think he's number 16. But also, what a great story the Philadelphia Eagles are. They're just a tough, blue-collar team.

They do everything right. And I found this amazing clip yesterday that had all the people saying, people that we love and respect in sports media, saying that Jalen Hurts was a horrible pick for the Philadelphia Eagles. He wasn't a franchise quarterback. He would never take them to the championship. One person said, why don't you just trade three picks get Russell Wilson forget about this Jalen Hurts thing it's a total nightmare and we saw how much he adds to the Philadelphia Eagles in the two or three games he was out near the end of the season he went out that he went out when

they were like 14 and one and they lost a couple of games. I mean, this is a great story. And, you know, part of that, Joe, was, as you know better than anybody at Alabama, the quarterback doesn't throw a ton or he's not always featured if you have a good running back. Bryce Young has been different. Of course, he's going to get drafted high this year. But Jalen Hurts, not everybody saw it coming out of college. He transferred to Oklahoma. But boy, has he been great. He's right in the middle of the MVP conversation this year with the guy who's going to be across from him on Sunday night, Patrick Mahomes. So yes, a great matchup.

I'm a Giants fan, so it's hard for me to completely get behind the Philadelphia story. But I do love a town where the city and the fans are so invested in their team. And that applies to both Philadelphia and Kansas City. It's really a toss-up. I think the Eagles right now are one-and-a-half-point favorites, so it should be a great game. Two great quarterbacks, and Jonathan Lemire, you've got two brothers, Travis Kelsey on the Chiefs, Jason Kelsey on the Eagles. And by the way, we're going to have their mother on in just a couple of hours here

to tell us who she's going to be rooting for on Sunday. That's terrible. It would be really bold if she voiced an opinion and said, yeah, actually, I like one kid way more than the other. I'm rooting for the Chiefs over the Eagles, but there she is. Donna Kelsey, we'll have her a little later in the show. First time this has ever happened that two brothers are on opposing sides. Maybe there's one who deserves it more.

That's possible. We'll ask her that when she comes on air. This should be a good game, though. You're right, Willie. The point spread just hovered around one, one and a half the whole time. It's two great quarterbacks facing two fierce pass rushes. That will be interesting. Both teams have a lot of really good skill players as well.

It's also the Andy Reid Bowl. Andy Reid, the coach of the Chiefs, of course, was a longtime head coach of the Eagles. So yet another subplot. And what should be, I think, a really competitive good game. I just hate the Super Bowl bye week. I wish having to wait two weeks for this game is excruciating. But, Mika, you know, it will be a fun one. Think about the mom.

And I was going to say, she will be in front of the line. For you, it's hard. This is a nightmare. A mother's worst nightmare. All right.