Morning Joe - Morning Joe 3/10/25

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

Trump and commerce secretary appear to differ on possibility of a recession

Marco, thank you so much for coming. I know you're under a lot of stress, but I can't have you fighting with Elon, okay? I need you to be my good little Marco. Mr. Trump, if you think I'm going to stand here and let you call me that, you're right. What I don't accept is Elon having total access to our government. Planes are crashing and he keeps trying to fire air traffic controllers. Well, Elon knows a lot about air travel, okay? He runs SpaceX, which is doing incredible things in terms of explosions

and with regard to rocket debris. Look, I can't have you two at each other's throats, okay? After all, I have a perfect record. Everyone who's ever worked for me has left on good terms And then gone on to write a book called the man who ruined everything So you two need to start acting like mature adults, okay, so let's begin with Marco Polo I'm trying to talk to Marco So headlines from the meeting.

One, America's doing bad guy now. Two, Marco, get your budget under control. And three, Elon, stay in your lane. You're not the boss. But I paid you $300 million. And that's why you're the boss. So... Mm-hmm.

That was Saturday Night Live poking fun at the reported clash between Elon Musk and Secretary of State Marco Rubio over the sweeping Doge cuts. We'll dive into that explosive meeting and whether President Trump is starting to rein Musk in. Plus, hours from now, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is set to meet with the Saudi Crown Prince in Jeddah. A day ahead of critical peace talks between the U.S. and Ukrainian officials, NBC's Keir Simmons is live in Saudi Arabia with a preview of how things will play out. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe.

It is Monday, March 10th. With us we have the co-host of our fourth hour, Jonathan Lemire. He's a contributing writer at The Atlantic covering the White House and national politics, U.S. special correspondent for BBC News, and the host of the Rest Is Politics podcast, Cady Kay, columnist and associate editor for The Washington Post. David Ignatius is with us, and staff writer for The Atlantic, Frank Foer joins us as well. Good to have you all on the show.

And welcome back from the other side of the world. Thank you, yes, quite a trip. We're back, we have great stories to tell. Oh, remarkable. We have a lot to show later on in the show. Okay, we'll do that later on in the show. 30-50 Summit. So, just really quickly,

the front pages of the papers today, especially the Wall Street Journal, which is, the front pages of the papers today, especially the Wall Street Journal, which is obviously the official voice of the business community, their headline is, Where Investors Play Defense and Switch to Dividend Stocks. Rattled by the threat of trade restrictions and a slowing economy is the lead. Investors are turning to a classic defensive play. Then, if you look at the top of business and finance this morning, starting out the week, markets wake up to new reality. James McIntosh talks about problems with stocks. Tesla, some stocks are extraordinary. Tesla is down 45% from its

high in mid-December. It talks about the big tech firms and the Russell 2000 index of smaller companies were down more than 10%. Both are lower than they were on Election Day. The S&P 500 is below where it stood on November 5th, and the dollar has dropped sharply. Just a lot of economic concerns. And of course, this weekend, of course, Washington buzzing about the question Donald Trump didn't answer. Yeah. Well, he isn't ruling out the possibility that the United States could head into a recession this year, as his economic policies cause uncertainty on Wall Street. Take a listen. Are you expecting a recession this year?

I hate to predict things like that. There is a period of transition, because what we're doing is very big. We're bringing wealth back to America. That's a big thing. And there are always periods of...it takes a little time. It takes a little time. But I think it should be great for us. I mean, I think it should be great.

So as Joe showed, the front page of the Wall Street Journal this morning reports on how investors, rattled by the threat of trade restrictions and a slowing economy, are now turning to a class of defensive play, dividend stocks. And with Americans remaining concerned about inflation and the looming threat of tariffs, consumer confidence fell sharply last month, the largest one month dropped since 2021. Meanwhile, layoffs among US employers in February were up 245% from the month prior and were at their highest level in nearly five years. This, as CNBC points out, that for seven straight weeks

since Elon Musk went to Washington to join the Trump administration, shares in his automaker have declined. It's the longest such losing streak for Tesla in its 15 years as a public company. I mean, I just have to check the numbers again. David Ignatius, Tesla down 45% from its high in mid-December when, of course, the stock shot up. But it is fascinating.

This is something that we've all been talking about since the election, that we have a strong economy. It's the envy of the world, but we have to be careful. Specifically, the incoming administration has to be careful with talk of tariffs and also instability. And you just look at the numbers and you see how stocks have been going up and down and how erratically things are going. And now this weekend, even President Trump not willing to suggest that his policies might not drive this country into a recession.

Talk about the impact. Obviously, we've seen consumer confidence down. We saw also last week reports that people failing to make payments on their automobiles, on those loans at least a decade-long high. Talk about how it's impacting us here and also around the world. So Joe, I think investors are reckoning with all the uncertainties that are part of Trump's program. We've had a frantic six weeks, big changes announced every day. I think Wall Street's beginning to wonder just where this leads the tariff wars in particular

Seemed to many investors that I talked to to be potentially counterproductive inflationary the Adjustment to the manufacturing economy that Trump seems to want could take many many years Wall Street's worried about about that process Back in January when I was at the Davos World Economic Forum, I remember hearing from several investors, financial markets then were priced to perfection plus, a couple people told me.

So when you're at perfection plus, there's a lot of room to slide down, and we're seeing that now. And it's interesting that Trump, rather than making the usual blandishments about everything's fine, don't worry, is saying, yeah, recession may be, I can't rule that out. He made a very interesting comment yesterday that I did pay attention to, where he said, China works on a 100-year cycle of planning planning and the United States goes quarter to quarter, something I've heard from corporate CEOs for years.

And I think he's right about that. I mean, it's not to endorse the policies, but we do tend to get so caught up in these short term movements that we forget about what would be good for the long run in the country. But in any event, Wall Street's got the jitters today. Yeah, and Donald Trump clearly trying to do something very big to the American economy,

basically bring it onshore almost all manufacturing, make it a much more closed off economy. That's the kind of thing, that's the kind of revolution in an economy that takes time. And I guess he's getting frustrated with already within six or seven weeks, starting to see the headlines in the Wall Street Journal, in the Financial Times, in The Economist magazine this week, saying that he could be about to tip the American economy

into recession. What I'm hearing from people on Wall Street, Meeker and Joe, is that this was not necessary. The economy was going along fine. But I guess if you're trying to fundamentally overhaul the American economy to make it much more in domestic production, a domestic market, then you're going to have to have those disruptions. And that is the price you're going to pay.

And he's just going to have to hope he can do it quickly enough, which I think is why we're seeing so much speed now, that by the time it comes to the election in 2028, voters have forgiven his party, if not him, as he's running again. Right. And by the way, he's running again. Right. By the way, both are exactly right. I mean, this is a transition. And if you're going to bring all of these jobs back on shore,

it took 30 years, 40 years of globalization to spread it out. It's going to take more than a year or two to bring it back and there are going to be costs. But as a great economist, Dave Chappelle said, and I think he may have gone like John Maynard Keynes to King's College in Cambridge, he said, do we really want to buy $9,000 iPhones? Probably not. Right. There's that. As the Trump administration continues efforts to scale back the federal workforce, we've learned employees within the Department of Health and Human Services

have been offered voluntary buyouts to resign from their jobs. Now, according to an administration official, each of the 80,000 employees at the department was sent an unsigned email on Friday offering them as much as $25,000 to resign from their jobs by 5 p.m. this Friday, March 14th. The offer comes just days after President Trump told his cabinet secretaries to make cuts to their departments clarifying that they, not Elon Musk or Doge, are in charge of making staffing decisions. How fascinating that this happened over the weekend.

This happened and here you have a department doing it again instead of Elon Musk. That's a pretty dramatic change. That is a shift, except maybe there's a little bit of confusion now for people who are getting different messages. And we're now learning that there are new details on that contentious meeting of cabinet secretaries. Two people familiar with the exchanges told NBC News some of the cabinet secretaries challenged Elon Musk over Doge's approach to cuts in their departments, specifically Secretary

of State Marco Rubio and Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, both pushing back on Musk for firing their employees without any consideration as to whether letting them go was a good idea in terms of maintaining quality and critical staff. The meeting was a potential turning point after the frenetic first weeks of Mr. Trump's second term. It yielded the first significant indication that Mr. Trump was willing to put some limits on Mr. Musk, whose efforts have become the subject of several lawsuits and prompted concerns from Republican lawmakers,

some of whom have complained directly to the president. A spokesperson for the State Department did not respond to a request for comment from NBC News, while a White House official said there was no complaining and called the meeting an open and positive discussion. On Friday, NBC's Gabe Gutierrez asked the president about the reported clash. Mr. President, since you last spoke about it yesterday, some details have come out about your Cabinet meeting with Elon Musk and some clashes potentially between Secretary Rubio and Secretary...

No clash. I was there. You're just a troublemaker. And you're not supposed to be asking that question because we're talking about the World Cup. But, Mr.... Elon gets along great with with Marco and they're both doing a fantastic job. There is no clash. Mr. President, who, bottom line? Who are you with? Who are you with?

NBC. Oh, no wonder. That's an NBC. Mr. President, who has more authority, Elon Musk or your cabinet secretaries? Any other questions? They're both great guys. And by the way, they both get along fantastically well. Marco has done unbelievably as Secretary of State, and Elon is a very unique guy who's done a fantastic job. I like talking about the World Cup. I mean—

Make no mistake, he's come to the United States. I'm very excited about it. But reporters don't have to just talk about the World Cup. No. don't have to just talk about the World Cup. So Gabe Gaudier is asking the the the right questions there for NBC. So, so, um, Donald Amir, Jonathan Swan and Maggie Haberman came up with this just explosive reporting a couple of days ago, which NBC confirmed. But it wasn't like it wasn't all kind of you know smiles and laughs and daffodils inside that meeting. You had Marco at one point, Secretary of State at one point saying to Elon, oh okay so the 1,500 people that have already taken early retrials, would

you like me to hire them back Elon so you can fire them for show? And then you had Sean Duffy, according again to this extraordinary reporting by Jonathan Swan and Maggie Haberman, you had Sean Duffy going, hey, we got planes crashing and your people are trying to fire air traffic controllers. And Elon Musk retorted,

name one person that got fired. And he goes, and Duffy responds, the Secretary of Transportation responds, I can't because I stopped your people from firing them while planes were crashing. So this was not a happy meeting. It wasn't a happy exchange, but it was as Swan and Haberman reported. It was quite possibly a turning point where Donald Trump is saying, okay, I selected you as cabinet secretaries. You all make the decisions.

And Elon, you can offer guidance and we'll be glad to listen to your guidance and then they will make the final decision. So you've written a piece asking whether Doge is losing steam. What have you found out over the weekend since this explosive meeting? Yeah, so there are a few things. There was a lot of damage control from the White House after that meeting. You just saw President Trump there in the Oval Office

talking about it. Secretary Rubio and Elon Musk had dinner at Mar-a-Lago over the weekend. We saw Trump return to Washington last night with Elon Musk on Air Force One. He also defended the two of them on True Social, trying to downplay this clash. But as I reported, this was coming weeks in the making.

First of all, President Trump had really soured on some of the bad headlines. Really, we know how much he pays attention to the media coverage of this. That dating all the way back from that moment we've discussed on this show when Jesse Waters on Fox News sort of almost very emotionally said, hey, be more careful with these cuts,

talking about a friend of his who was gonna be eliminated from the Pentagon. A veteran. Saying this needs to change how we're approaching this. said, hey, be more careful with these cuts, talking about a friend of his who was going to be eliminated from the Pentagon saying this needs to change how we're approaching this. Other cabinet secretaries for weeks now have complained to the White House and to their own staff, saying Musk is disturbing our power. This should be our decisions on hirings and firings.

Not saying they're not going to agree with Dozier's recommendations. Not saying they don't agree with the need to reduce the workforce. And in some cases dramatically so, but they wanted to have the final say on that, not Musk. And I'm told White House officials are seeing these legal challenges, and they've been on the losing end of some of them, in part because there's questions about whether Musk has the authority in Doge.

Musk, of course, a special government employee, whether he actually has the ability to fire these staff workers. So Franklin Four, there's some thought here that by empowering the cabinet secretaries to be the final say, that might actually help them get this through the courts, more effectively eliminate these positions. Musk certainly not going anywhere. People in Trump's orbit stressed to me all weekend long That he is still a major player, but it does seem like this is the first time he's had his wings clipped a little

You know as we enter this next phase of Doge Right so if the kind of master narrative of the first couple weeks of the Trump administration has been the unimpeded power Of a lawn Musk well, we do have this evidence that he's receiving some sort of backlash, some sort of pushback. But I think the fundamental trend still continues, which is that Doge has created an ethos for the entire federal government, that one of the underlying pillars of the Doge strategy is to create a sense of fear and anxiety among federal workers to drive them out on their own volition. And I think that we're only beginning to see that happening. In Washington, this is a local story.

And like Jesse Waters, I think all of us at the table here keep running into people in the federal government who are pondering leaving the federal government. And when I look at these examples of the very good people I know in the government, whether they are at the VA doing some sort of very basic medical work or they're at other agencies where they're regulating financial markets, the stunning exodus of competence and capacity is only just beginning. It only is. Again, I want to go back to Mika really quickly. Another question. Again, you look, Wall Street Journal this morning talking about Tesla down 45% from its highs. Tesla has always

been known as a stock that overperforms. Partly partly it overperforms because Elon Musk's, you know, the market viewing Elon Musk as some entrepreneurial godlike character, every day he's in the White House. Every day he fires people who are responsible for nuclear safety, or tries to fire people who are responsible for air safety or people who are responsible for stopping the bird flu from becoming, you know, chainsaws on stage at CPAC while you have even Fox News hosts complaining about all the veterans who've

served this country honorably for decades getting fired. And they're firing without any rhyme or reason. Stock goes down 45%. And again, questions are starting to be raised. When is he? Every day he's in the government. What's happening to his company? I am curious how long market forces are going to be pushing and pressuring him, and how

long he can afford to actually stay there. I know he's still the world's richest man, but again, Tesla drives that fortune. It's down 45% since mid-December. So that's a fascinating question. And one other just side note. There's been violence at Tesla dealerships, at Tesla charging stations. It's inexcusable. And it's just got to stop. No. I mean, and the reaction by Democrats, what they can show is story after story of, I voted for Donald Trump and then he fired me.

I'm a vet. I voted for Donald Trump and I got fired. That's really becoming the result of a lot of people who work for the federal government or who are vets and then find themselves voting for someone who causes the end of their careers as they know it and their livelihood. That's the reaction. As Jonathan said, Donald Trump is seeing these headlines

and he's seeing the chaos and they're not good headlines. And so that's why you have cabinet secretaries that actually are put in charge of it, and they actually have a process for going through this. It does hold up more in the courts. And also, it's not so indiscriminate. So you're not firing people that keep planes in the air.

You're not firing people that keep our nuclear stockpile safe. You're not firing people that are trying to stop the next pandemic. You didn't think you had to worry about this stuff. Let's take a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. Canada has picked a new prime minister. The governing Liberal Party elected former central banker Mark Carney yesterday. Carney won in a landslide with nearly 90% of the vote. He will replace Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who announced his resignation in January.

Trudeau will remain in power until Carney is sworn in once in office. Carney is expected to call for a federal election where he will face the leader of the Conservative Party. And, boy, you talk about a backlash against what's been happening between the United States and Canada. The Conservative Party up there was 20 points ahead. Oh, wow. 20 points ahead when Donald Trump was elected.

That's now been cut, and this is going to be a close race. So Israel has cut off the electricity supply to Gaza in an effort to pressure Hamas to agree to extending the first phase of the ceasefire. The move impacts a water treatment plant in the enclave. It comes a week after officials halted the entry of aid and goods into Gaza. Hamas is now calling the tactic a, quote, starvation policy. Meanwhile, Israeli negotiators are set to head to Qatar today to discuss the ceasefire. Hamas is pushing to begin phase

two, which is supposed to bring an end to the war. But Israel wants a temporary truce to secure the release of more hostages. And a memo obtained by the Washington Post shows the Army Corps of Engineers knew that water released from California reservoirs at President Donald Trump's direction was unlikely to reach the southern part of the state. The president issued the directive back in January in the wake of the LA wildfires. Army officials rushed to execute the plan even while privately acknowledging the water would never get that far south without coordination with state and federal agencies.

And still ahead on Morning Joe, we're going to get a live report from Saudi Arabia where U.S. and Ukrainian officials are set to meet to discuss a peace deal with Russia. Plus, President Trump is offering to negotiate a new nuclear weapons agreement with Iran. We'll play for you those comments as the president suggests there may be an armed conflict if a deal isn't reached soon. Also ahead, New York Times columnist Maureen Dab will join us. This is special. Oh, yeah.

Maureen doesn't do much TV. We're very excited about this. Maureen's going to give us a look at her new book entitled Notorious Portraits of Stars from Hollywood Culture, Fashion and Tech. You're watching Morning Joe. We're back in 90 seconds. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is in the Saudi Arabian port city of Jeddah today where he will meet with the Saudi Crown Prince ahead of peace talks tomorrow between U.S. and Ukrainian officials.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is set to meet later today with the crown prince in the capital of Riyadh. It is unclear if Zelensky will attend the peace discussions tomorrow aimed at ending the years-long war with Russia. NBC News reports that President Trump has made clear that a minerals deal with Kiev won't be enough to restart U.S. aid and intelligence sharing. According to an administration official and another U.S. official, Trump wants to see a change in Zelensky's attitude toward peace talks, including possible territorial concessions,

movement toward elections, and even potentially Zelensky stepping down. Meanwhile, President Trump says he still believes Russia wants to end the war in Ukraine. Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office on Friday, the president seemed to defend Russia's intense bombing of Ukraine and said he believes Putin does want peace. President Putin is bombing Ukraine. Do you still believe him when he tells you that he wants peace? Yeah, no, I believe him.

I believe him. I think we're doing very well with Russia. But right now they're bombing the hell out of Ukraine. And Ukraine, I'm finding it more difficult, hell out of Ukraine and Ukraine. I'm finding it more difficult, frankly, to deal with Ukraine. And they don't have the cards. They don't have the cards. As you know, we're meeting in Saudi Arabia on sometime next week, early.

And we're talking — I find that in terms of getting a final settlement, it may be easier dealing with Russia, which is surprising because they have all the cards. And they're bombing the hell out of them right now. Let's bring in NBC News chief international correspondent Keir Simmons. He's live from JetaKir. First of all, your reaction based on your reporting on Donald Trump, why he keeps saying Russia is easier to deal with than the Ukrainians, that's first.

Secondly, what are you hearing officials expect to happen today? Well, the Trump administration hasn't really begun dealing with the Russians, honestly, yet. I mean, they've had that meeting. There's been that phone call. You can argue, by the Russians, honestly, yet. I mean, they've had that meeting. There's been that phone call. And you can argue, by the way, Joe, that we keep talking about kind of getting around the table and negotiations. Negotiations are happening right now. But the negotiations, really, from the Trump administration perspective, has been focused on Ukraine, of course.

Now, President Zelensky, just how much of this is a work in progress? Here's an example. You mentioned President Zelensky coming to Riyadh. He's coming here to Jeddah now to see the Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman, who is clearly trying to, or is playing the role of a mediator. He brought the US and Russia together in Riyadh last month and now here with Zelensky, and then the Ukrainian delegation meeting with Maltz and Rubio

and the envoy Steve Witkoff, all flying in today for this meeting to begin here tomorrow. So that, I mean, these meetings in these coming days are crucial. I almost want to say life or death for Ukraine. That's probably putting it too strongly, but not too strongly, because ultimately, if these talks go badly, then you're going to expect more pressure on the Ukrainians. In terms of your question, Joe, as you know, we were in Russia last week. We managed to make it to the Kursk region, that area where a small part of it, which now is still held

by the Ukrainians. We saw a lot of military there, Russian military on the Russian side. There are battles, I mean intense battles taking place. There's video of Russians making their way through abandoned gas pipes to try and get to the Ukrainians to fight of drone strikes on Ukrainian tanks in that area of Kursk. Why is that so intense? Why is it so important? Because Ukrainians hope to hold that ground in order to negotiate a swap of some kind of territory, territorial swap. I mean, that's what we perceive Ukrainians want to do.

Now, if they lose that ground and the Russians are clearly determined that they will, then that obviously changes the negotiation. And that's all important to going back to your question, because ultimately, if you are the Kremlin and you think that you are winning in Kursk, and you think that you will get that ground back in the weeks, but maybe months ahead, why would you agree to a ceasefire now?

It is, of course, the question that hangs over Washington and the world, especially Europe. NBC News chief international correspondent, Keir Simmons, live from Jeddah, Saudi Arabia as always. Thank you so much. David Ignatius opening the lead from the Wall Street Journal story front page, The American-Sized Hole in Ukraine's War Effort,

written by James Morrison, Alastair McDonald, and Michael Gordon. The Russian army was advancing relentlessly in northeastern Ukraine in the summer of 2022, when the U.S. tipped the scales with new weapons and crucial battlefield intelligence. The superior accuracy and greater range of M77 howitzers supplied by the US hit back against Russia's mostly Soviet designed artillery. The US intelligence tipped off Ukraine's generals that Russia had moved several battalions to another front. David, the weapons and the intelligence has made all the difference in the world for the Ukrainians. Donald Trump has taken those away now from the Ukrainians and is allowing

Vladimir Putin and the Russians to bomb Ukraine endlessly, relentlessly. And of course the question, as we were just saying, that hangs over the United States, that hangs over Europe, that hangs over the world, is why? What does your reporting show you? So exactly what Donald Trump's vision is of the way the world works after the settlement that he's seeking so strenuously in Ukraine. What the world likes is a mystery. Former head of British intelligence has said that he thinks Trump is heading toward a world of oligarchs where three strong men, Putin, Xi and Trump, kind of divide up the world. Maybe that's his vision.

I do know, Joe, that in terms of what you were just discussing, the weapons and intelligence that the United States supplied to Ukraine in 2022 were absolutely crucial in their being able to push the Russians back and survive as a country. And the withdrawal of that intelligence and the cutoff of weapons at a time when Ukraine is heading into negotiations in which their very existence is at stake, couldn't be a harsher or a cooler tactic by Donald Trump. I mean, we said earlier that Russia, Trump says Russia has been easy to deal with. Well, no wonder.

He's not asking him for anything. Meanwhile, he's pounding the Ukrainians almost every day. So the Ukrainian response, I think we'll see tomorrow in Saudi Arabia, is going to be to say basically, Mr. Trump, we'll do this the way you want. You want a Murals deal? You got one. You want us to cooperate in negotiations? We'll do it.

The real question is whether Trump is willing to lean in any way on the letter of Putin to get Russia into a peace deal. But right now, this is becoming really a one-sided conflict where Russia's ready to roll in eastern Ukraine and Ukraine doesn't have the intelligence or weapons, alas, to push them back. Yeah, one-sided conflict and one-sided negotiation, it looks like a little bit from America's point of view. Frank, you've written a new piece in which you state bluntly that Putin has won. You talk about historians playing a parlor game

called periodization, in which they attempt to define an era by the individual who shaped those times the most. And you're saying that at this moment we can, and sometimes it's hard to see that in real time, but you're saying that right now we can see it in real time. How has Putin shaped this era? This is the age of Putin. When you look, just going back even 10 years, it's clear that he's had a set of objectives,

that he's wanted more sympathetic leaders in the West who would destroy NATO and the EU from within. He's wanted to discredit democracy as a rival ideology in order to dismantle the movement for democracy both at home in his own country and in neighboring countries and in the rest of the world. He's wanted to make the world safer for oligarchic money. And if we look back not just at the last couple of weeks of the Trump administration where things have really accelerated and he's come much closer to achieving his vision of the world, but if we go back starting with Brexit and looking at the way that the EU has transformed

over time and looking at the divisions within NATO, you have to say he's not just winning tactically in a place like Ukraine, which is so he cares so passionately about because it's the front line of this. But you look at it kind of more globally, you would say he is prevailing all around and more than just in Ukraine. Right. And more than more than just Ukraine. Crane Frank, I mean, talk about the disinformation also.

I mean, we had Russia's disinformation campaign in the United States in 2016, which has been proven over and over again. You had fights in Facebook headquarters because, actually, you had one board member actually explaining to other board members that, yeah, Russian disinformation had polluted Facebook during the campaign. But we see it not just in Hungary. We saw it in Poland with the Law and Justice Party. We've seen it in the UK with Russian right-wing nationalist disinformation being spread around.

Of course, we've seen it in France. We've seen it in France. We've seen it in Germany. I mean, he has effectively, with a GDP that's less than Texas's GDP, we've seen Vladimir Putin over the past decade spread disinformation to try to weaken Western democracies. He has been effective, and in some cases, he's been wildly effective. Whether you look at the law and justice party in Poland, or you look at Orban in Hungary, who is still a country invaded by the old Soviet Union,

basically doing Vladimir Putin's bidding in the EU. Right, you go back about 10 years, 15 years, Vladimir Putin started losing at home and in Ukraine, and he started to change his tactics. He became much more active in trying to manipulate elections abroad. He started to finance political parties illicitly. He started to engage in the disinformation campaigns, exploiting social media. And we don't need to ascribe any magical powers to Vladimir Putin. A lot of his tactics are pretty ham-fisted, and sometimes he's bungled them.

But the effect, the net effect, you look at it here and the way in which we're still debating the Russiagate and the Russia hoax and the way that this has become an extremely polarizing issue here, that is the goal, that he's stirred all of this lack of confidence in our democracy. He's exacerbated polarization. He's known where the fissures are in our societies, and he's managed to increase them. And with Putin's goal being to sow dissent among NATO here and also here in the United States, he's accomplishing that day after day.

Over the weekend, we had this exchange on TwitterX between Poland's foreign minister, Poland, of course, being one of Ukraine's foremost allies in this conflict, and Marco Rubio, the U.S. Secretary of State, where they got into an argument with Rubio saying, say thank you to Poland because of the star links that the United States and Elon Musk helped supply Ukraine in this conflict and again much like what we heard from

Vice President Vance and President Trump in the Oval Office two weeks ago demanding that Zelensky be more more grateful and it just the US seems to be as diplomats from both you both Europe and elsewhere have said to me and others in recent days, the United States seems to be putting their thumb on the scale for Russia in the last couple of weeks. There's not much high hopes for a settlement anytime soon. I know these talks start tomorrow, finally, with Ukrainian officials. But Joe and Mika, there's a growing belief here, and Trump made it clear over the weekend

that even that minerals deal, even if that does get signed this week, that might not be enough for the U.S. to resume sharing intelligence with Ukraine. There's a suggestion here that Zelensky is going to need to step aside in order for the U.S. to start helping in, and perhaps even more than that. Again, that goes back to 2019, and that so-called perfect call when Donald Trump was trying to get dirt on Joe Biden and the Biden family from Zelensky. Zelensky wouldn't give it. And it's been deeply personal since then. But I must say, for Marco Rubio, of all people, Jonathan, to get into a fight on Twitter with a leader in Poland. This would be like Ronald Reagan's cabinet member

getting in a fight with a leader of West Germany in the 1980s. You have Poland, who is the tip of the spear for American, for Western democracy. They are on the front lines and everybody knows it. And here we had Marco Rubio, of course, clip. You could go back and see Rubio in 2014, castigating the Biden, the Obama administration and castigating them for ignoring the treaty that everybody signed, including Putin, signed that if the Ukrainians gave up their nuclear weapons, that we would

guarantee their sovereignty and guarantee their borders. And it was Marco Rubio calling upon the administration to step up and say what a disgrace and how shameful it was. And here you have Marco Rubio David Ignatius getting into a battle with, really, and I'm not just saying it because I'm sitting next to a Brzezinski, I'm saying it because, again, Poland is now what West Germany was at the height of the Cold War. It is just unspeakable that this former Cold War warrior would now be going on X attacking the Poles. It's safe to say that Mika's dad would be stunned to read every headline that discusses the

situation in Europe. I mean the world that Zbigniew Brzezinski and so many generations of American foreign policy leaders sought to create is being undone week by week by the Trump administration and people need to reckon with the cost of it. I mean, the way in which our national security apparatus is being dismantled at the Justice Department, the CIA and other agencies, you really begin to wonder about where the protection will be going forward. I think we'll see this week whether President Trump is really serious about getting to a peace deal in Ukraine that will work, that's fair enough that it won't just blow up in his face.

He says he wants peace. He says that's his mission. This week we're going to find out, I think. Well, by the way, for those who don't know what Dr. Brzezinski spent his entire life, his entire life fighting for, it was the liberation of Eastern Europe from Russian aggression. He spent his entire life,

from the time he was 13, 14 years old. And so did a hell of a lot of other Americans, whether in uniform or whether in the State Department or whether in the diplomatic corps, or whether in USAID. It was all geared toward pushing back on Russian aggression. And now, Mika, you have Marco Rubio, our Secretary of State, attacking Poland, saying, just say thank you. How about the United States saying thank you to the Ukrainians, to the Poles, to other people in Central and Eastern Europe and the former Warsaw Pact that have pushed back and fought

and given their lives. For the safety of the world. For the safety of Europe, for the safety of the West, for the safety of the world. I think we are the ones who are in a position to thank them for being on the front lines and the fight for freedom. So the Washington Post, David Ignatius and the Atlantic's Frank Thor, thank you both very, very much.

And coming up, dispatches from spring training where the injuries are mounting for both New York teams. Pablo Torre joins us with his takes on the Yankees and Mets who might have a hard time fielding a team, let alone contending for a title. And as we mentioned at the top of the show, we wrapped up the Forbes and Know Your Value fourth annual 3050 Summit and the situation in Ukraine and the world events really hung heavy over the summit as women stepped up into the light at this gathering, the global gathering of women in history. The event brought together hundreds of women from 46 different countries for three days

of unparalleled networking, mentorship, and life-changing conversations with world leaders across politics, entertainment, finance, social entrepreneurship and more. Our summit concluded with an International Women's Day Awards Gala at the Louvre Abu Dhabi to honor women who have helped shape history. Pulitzer Prize winning photojournalist Lindsay Adario received our Torch of Freedom Award for her dedication to capturing moments of resilience, conflict, and humanity in some of the most challenging places on earth, including during and in the war in Ukraine. She repeatedly faced the possibility of death. As we head to break, take a look

at part of her moving acceptance speech, which you can watch in its entirety at KnowYourValue.com. In its essence, photojournalism conveys truth, no matter how inconvenient that is to some. Today we live in a world where truth is up for debate, where a few people in positions of power convey and perpetuate their own realities, far away from the actual events that have transpired. That's because reality can be threatening. And it makes journalism even more essential as we move forward in an ever more connected world full of both facts and disinformation.

I've been covering conflict for 25 years. I've been kidnapped twice in Iraq by a group linked to Al Qaeda following the US invasion in 2004 and in Libya by Qadhafi soldiers during the popular uprising in 2011. I was thrown out of a car on a highway in Pakistan while covering the Taliban invasion of Swab Valley seven weeks before my wedding. I have been in the midst of countless gun battles and ambushes while with the US troops everywhere

from Iraq to Afghanistan and wondered on several occasions whether I would live to see the next day. But I am still committed to my life as a photojournalist with every ounce of my soul. I still go back to war even... I need a beta blocker, even as the mother of two young children. Welcome back. Look at that shot.

Gorgeous. Thank you, Chopper, for. We appreciate that. Time now for a look at the morning papers. The Telegram and Gazette reports, regional vocational schools in Massachusetts are witnessing a dramatic increase in student interest as the demand for trade workers increases across the country. One superintendent of a local school told the paper they have had a substantial wait list for the past five years with quote more than

double the amount of interest than we have seats available each freshman year. A shortage of workers across numerous trade labor fields has created lucrative employment options for many career and technical education program graduates. I'm hearing that more and more now you are too from leaders of every industry saying we need more vocational schools more vocational workers. The Palm Beach Post reports Governor Ron DeSantis wants to end property taxes in his state, but there are a few details on how Florida would make up the $50 billion in revenue. Those taxes fund a number of critical services, including public schools, law enforcement, and some utilities. The paper notes Florida does not have a state income tax. And the San Francisco Chronicle reports on the booming sales of

egg alternatives as egg prices have risen to nine dollars a dozen in California. Sales of vegan egg replacement products have soared, usually being made from lung, protein. I just and alternatives Mimicking the taste and feel of real eggs egg prices are up 53% in the past year and are expected to rise another 41% this year. This is that but this is why Joe Biden and Kamala was unpopular and why Kamala Harris lost. I thought Trump's... Egg crisis.

The eggs are too damn high. Thank you. Still ahead.