Morning Joe - Morning Joe 3/17/25

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

Trump administration touts deportations under Alien Enemies Act after a judge temporarily blocked its use

I'm not understating the complexity of all this, but as a candidate you said you would have this war settled in 24 hours. Well, I was being a little bit sarcastic when I said that. What I really mean is I'd like to get it settled. And I think I'll be successful. What's the plan if Putin doesn't agree to a ceasefire? Bad news for this world because so many people are dying. But I think he's going to agree.

I really do. I think I know him pretty well and I think he's going to agree. President Trump says he will speak to Russian President Vladimir Putin tomorrow. We're going to dig into the latest on the efforts for a ceasefire in this years-long conflict where it stands right now. Meanwhile, the president continues what has been a chaotic start to his second term. He's now threatening the press on top of his administration's mass firings of federal workers and also legally questionable deportations underway right now,

including flying hundreds of migrants to El Salvador on Saturday, despite a judge's order to return them to the U.S. Also ahead, we'll dive into the dissatisfaction with the Democratic Party, as new polling shows approval ratings at an all-time low. And we'll have an update on the deadly storm system that tore through several states in the Midwest and the South. A very busy start to the week. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe.

It is Monday, March 17th. With us we have the co-host of our fourth hour, Jonathan LaMere. He's a contributing writer at The Atlantic covering the White House and national politics. The host of Way Too Early, Ali Vitale, still with us, and columnist and associate editor for The Washington Post, David Ignatius is here. Also with us, Roger's chair in the American presidency at Vanderbilt University, historian John Meacham. He's an MSNBC political analyst. Let's dive right in, shall we? The Trump administration is denying that it violated a judge's order to stop the deportation

of hundreds of migrants over the weekend. President Trump on Friday signed an executive order invoking the Alien Enemies Act of 1798, which allows the government to deport certain nationals in times of war without trial. The administration used the act to deport nearly 300 people that it alleges are members of a Venezuelan gang, flying them to El Salvador on Saturday. Now, before the flights, advocacy groups filed a lawsuit against the administration on behalf of five men who were targeted in the deportation.

Late Saturday, a federal judge blocked the president's use of the Alien Enemies Act, ordering any planes with people being deported under the president's executive order to be returned to the United States, even if it meant turning the planes around. The big issue here is the timing of the flights. Administration officials have not said when the deportation flights landed in El Salvador, but the White House press secretary claimed yesterday that the migrants had already been removed from U.S. territory at the time of the judge's order. As the New York Times points out, the judge issued his order shortly before 7 p.m. in

Washington, but video posted on social media by the president of El Salvador shows the deportees disembarking the plane at night and El Salvador is two hours behind Washington time. Let's bring in NBC News senior Homeland Security correspondent Julia Ainslayen, former state attorney for Palm Beach County, Dave Ehrenberg. Julia, first of all, these deportees, what is the status of the claims or the alleged claim that they are members of the gang? Are they all members of a gang?

Do we know that? That's the thing, Mika. We have to take the White House at its word when they talk about these nearly 300 men that they allege are part of this Venezuelan gang, Tren de Aragua, or TDA. TDA is a gang that began in Venezuela over a decade ago, and it's really been making its way internationally. It's become a recent threat in the United States just in the past year,

still much smaller than anything like MS-13. They had been blamed for murders and for robberies in New York City, but really it's been a major focus of this administration to try to focus on this gang in particular. They've also labeled them a foreign terrorist organization, which is one of the reason why Caroline Levitt called them all terrorists.

But look, without due process, without them going before an immigration judge, without the White House telling us what crimes these people may have committed or whether or not their tattoos merely linked them to this gang, it's really hard to know. I'll even point out during the Biden administration,

they had a list of over 600 people they said may have connections to Tren de Aragua, but they said some of these people may have simply been victims who had to pay this gang or get a tattoo in order to survive. It was really difficult to see who exactly in that group would have been a high-level crime member. And that's exactly why the plaintiff's attorneys filed that lawsuit on Saturday to stop the deportations before these people could get due process. Because under that Alien Enemies Act, Trump could use wartime powers, powers that have

not been invoked outside of the War of 1812, World War I, or World War II, to do a some, to summarily deport people merely based on their nationality and in this case the fact that they're tied to Trander or Agua. And once they get into the hands of El Salvador, Mika, they're out of the power of the United States. And that includes out of the power of this judge. So this is a case where if they defied this court order and at the time, I listened to this Saturday night emergency hearing, a lawyer for the Justice Department told Judge Boasberg that he understood the order and would direct agencies to act accordingly. And that meant even turning around planes midair.

Instead, we understand those planes landed and they got off and they were handed over to the El Salvadorian government, something the president of El Salvador has tweeted about and said, oopsies, too late when he saw the headlines about the judge's order. So this is a real mocking of this order that can't be undone. It's unlike another order where if they aren't in compliance, something can be undone. They are now in the hands of the El Salvadorian government, going to these super high security prisons that have been developed by the El Salvadorian government in order to hold people from gangs in places where they have

multiple men sleeping on concrete slabs without so much as a mattress or a sheet. These are very high-level questions. We do not have as much as we do. NBC News' senior homeland security correspondent, Julia Ainslie, thank you so much for your reporting. The questions are screaming at me right now that the number one is due process, which We have no idea who these people are. We have no idea what crime they've been accused of committing. We have no idea if they're the right people to do this. We have no idea who these people are. We have no idea who these people are.

We have no idea who these people are. We have no idea who these people are. We have no idea who these people are. We have no idea who these people are. We have no idea who these people are. We have no idea who these people are. We have no idea who these people are. We have no idea who these start there. We have no idea who these people are. We have no idea what crime they've been accused

of committing. We have no idea if they're the right people. We've already heard from a number of groups over the weekend, immigration advocacy groups and the like, saying, look, some of the people who've been swept up in this have committed no wrongdoing. They have tattoos for entirely different reasons. They have no associations with this gang whatsoever.

The president of El Salvador, who was sort of a Trump acolyte in many ways, happy to play along. Julia mentioned the taunting tweet. Also, let's note here the highly choreographed video that was shot when these prisoners arrived there in El Salvador at this brutal prison with remarkable production values. It looked like a Hollywood trailer in terms of how much went into this. This was clearly carefully planned and meant to be a show of force.

It was meant to be an open message in terms of the Trump, and we're watching some of it here, the Trump immigration policy, but also Dave Ehrenberg, seemingly an open message at the judiciary. And that's where I wanted to go with you. Please weigh in on the legality of what we're seeing here, but also take a step back. The big picture showdown this seems to be setting up here between this administration and they're fighting on technicalities. They're fighting on where were the planes?

Were they over international waters, the international airspace when the ruling came down? They're fighting on the details of this, but this is clear that they're basically saying we're ignoring a court order, try to stop us. Jonathan, I was concerned that this would be the coup that we all worried about. That's when the administration says we are going to disregard court orders. The administration came out and said, no, no, no, we're not defying a court order here. The order just came too late and the plane was in the air, international aerospace. So the judge didn't have the authority to get it back. That's not true. This is the administration being a little too cute here. This is the principle of it's always easier

to apologize than to ask permission. That's what they're going under here because their excuses obviously phony you don't get to deny and defy a court order because you've taken suspects in an international airspace and the administration rushed to get these folks into the air and they tried to get them on ground in El Salvador before the court came out with its order but they didn't do so. The White House did say that they will appeal to the Supreme Court, and that is the proper way to challenge a court order.

And another reason why I don't believe it's a coup yet. It's clear though that Trump wants a fight on this, because when it comes to alleged Venezuelan gang members like foreign students who sympathize with terrorists, that doesn't have a lot of political appeal. So the Democrats are responding with high minded constitutional principles of due process and First Amendment. While Trump is saying, well, let's make America safe again.

This is the terrain they want to fight on. They'd much rather have this debate than talk about the sinking stock market, the chances of a recession or rising egg prices. Yeah. I mean, Dave, you hit it exactly that the Trump administration is trying to make a point with people they perceive as not particularly sympathetic victims. So the student up at Columbia who was saying, you know, siding with Hamas, it seemed in some issues. And now these, at least some of them, are members of a gang or there's, you know, who have accused of doing truly terrible

things. But isn't what makes America America? Is it no matter who you are, you're still entitled to free speech and due process, no matter how unsympathetic or unsavory your views might be? Talk to us a little bit about the slippery slope we may be on here. Well, that's why President Trump is invoking the Alien

Enemies Act of 1798, which gives the president extraordinary power to do this without going through the immigration courts, without having real due process. The problem is the act says that the president can only do it when the United States is at war with another country or if the foreign country has invaded or threatened to invade the U.S. That hasn't happened here. And that's why I think the courts are ultimately going to rule against the president. But the question is then, if the president ignores the courts, then how does the court

enforce its actions? Because they're under the marshal's office. They have the marshal's office to enforce its rulings, and the marshal's office is under the executive branch. So we could be headed for a constitutional crisis. Former state attorney for Palm Beach County, Florida, Dave Arenberg, thank you very much. That brings us to President Trump's angry, meandering speech at the Department of Justice on Friday, full of grievances, pointed attacks, and accusations that the American media is

illegal because reporters write things that he does not like. According to the New York Times, the campaign-style address at the DOJ suggested that Mr. Trump would not soon let go of his anger at federal prosecutors and that he intends to make good on his long-standing vows to seek retaliation against them. The AP ads quote, the appearance marked Mr. Trump's clearest exertion yet of personal control over the country's federal law enforcement apparatus. Here's some of what he said about the role of the free press and how he sees his power as president.

These networks and these newspapers are really no different than a highly paid political operative and it has to stop. It has to be illegal. It's influencing judges and it's really changing law and it just cannot be legal. I don't believe it's legal and they do it in total coordination with each other. Now, as the chief law enforcement officer in our country, I will insist upon and demand full and complete accountability for the wrongs and abuses that have occurred. So we're going to have to take a look at the big picture of all this,

including the story we started at the top with on these deportations. And we'll talk with John Meacham in just a moment about that. But focusing in on this speech, David, you have a new column on how the president is stripping away many of the FBI officials with the most experience in protecting the nation against foreign terrorist and intelligence threats. So if you could talk a little bit about that and also if there is a confluence with the other things that the president is doing. So, Mika, the speech that the president made at the Justice Department Friday was an unusually

political speech. He said in the speech how rare it was for a president to go to the Justice Department, that there's always been a sense of separation between the White House and justice, for the proper administration of justice fairly. He noted that this was unusual, but then said he wanted to do it, that the speech was full of grievance and anger, listing people he thought had done him wrong. The thing that I find especially troubling is that under Trump and his FBI director Kash Patel as Attorney General Pan Bondi, there has been what amounts to a purge of the senior leadership in

counterterrorism and counterintelligence, the foreign threats that could cause deep problems for the country. And a whole generation of senior leadership has been pushed out, reassigned, just is gone. And I've talked to many people who worry that at a time of elevated foreign threats around the world, we still unfortunately have people who really want to do the country harm that we are, I won't say naked, but we're much more vulnerable because of the loss of these people. It disappointed me that President Trump didn't make any reference to these issues in his

speech. It was much more focused on political issues. The new FBI director Kash Patel is reorganizing the FBI. Some of the people he is planning to appoint to senior positions, I'm told by former FBI officials, are respected, experienced, so that's a positive. But this issue of our country's vulnerability to threats and whether the president is focused on political grievance and retaliation rather than future threats is one that I think should concern

people. And what are the different, I'd say, from trade wars to the Houthis, that America is beginning to push back and isolate itself from friends and push against enemies or make new enemies at the same time, even Canada. And then you have Cash Patel decentralizing the FBI, this speech at the Justice Department, these deportations, which some might argue is the administration flouting the law. What do you think the biggest concerns in terms of our national security short-term are?

Because in a sense, some might argue, and I think I heard you just say, what's happening even with this purge with the DOJ is it's weakening. It's weakening America's not just standing in the world, but our national security. So, Mika, I think what is worrying countries around the world is whether the United States remains committed to its network of alliances, to the information that's shared. Take the case of national security threats. What traditionally has happened is a sharing of intelligence with our partners, the senior people, the Justice Department and the FBI are very experienced in handling this information

and then disrupting the plots. They've gotten really good at it. So foreign governments are wondering, is this still a reliable process where we can deal with the United States? They wonder whether the United States is going to continue to hold its commitments to other countries to help defend them. So I think there's generally a concern as Trump pushes to change so many things. Where is the United States?

What traditional responsibilities is it upholding? Which ones is it getting rid of? What laws and procedures is it still living by? Which ones are going out the window? It's a period where every country I know, everyone I talk to, officials is asking those questions. Can we depend on the United States in the way that we traditionally have? Or do we have to completely revise the way we think about US procedures?

So John Meacham and David Ignatius just posed a question, where is the United States? I'm going to ask you, who is the United States? Take in tandem, if you will, what we've been talking about this morning, the deeply political score settling speech from President Trump at DOJ on Friday, which also included the threats towards the free press. And then this appears to be a defiance of a court order and violation of due process for political points to move to disappear these immigrants from the United States to harsh conditions elsewhere.

Just do what you do so well. Please just tell us what this means. Well, the fact that a law that was passed in 1798 is at the heart of this moment goes straight at the question you asked, Jonathan, which is who are we? This is part of who we are. In 1798, the Adams administration passed the Alien Act, the Sedition Act, which suppressed dissent. And it was part of an era that led to, or was the creation of the partisan system, ferociously opposed to each other. Jefferson and Madison were on one side, Adams, President Adams was on the other.

And Jefferson and Madison thought of it as a reign of witches. So the first election we had in this country that was about making America something it had been before was in 1800, when Jefferson ran on the question of, can we recover the spirit of 76? Or are we going to be this federalist, powerful government that can undercut the implications of the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights, the Constitution? So the fact that we have been this before and always are doesn't make this moment any easier, doesn't make it any more congenial. I would argue it actually makes the stakes clear and the task of citizenship certain,

which is if you believe that the country is defined by the degree to which it adheres to the Declaration of Independence and its implications or the degree to which it falls away from them, we have a pretty clear test. And the eras that we celebrate in this country, and I think this is really important, the eras that we celebrate are eras where we have expanded the definition of what it is to be an American, not eras in which we've constricted it. And so I agree with what was said a moment ago about the political, I don't want to say genius necessarily, but the political reality of the moment is going to be the administration, either by design or luck, it doesn't really

matter which, has created a context in which those who want to argue for the rule of law are going to appear as though they're saying, yeah, let's have a bunch of gang members running around. Right? It's just, it's a total loser politically. But think about what we've talked about. The Alien Act is almost always invoked and we tend to regret it, right? It was what was behind the Japanese internment, internment of Japanese Americans internment of Japanese Americans in the Second World War. It's something that goes straight at what I think is the heart of the era, which is the American presidency has the means of

immense power. And so it matters enormously. I would argue it's determinative, more important than any particular policy, to know the character of the person to whom you are entrusting these immense powers. The American people knew what they were doing in 2024. They made a decision that a lot of us regret and argued against, but it was the decision they made. And now they have to decide what kind of era do they want to live in. So well said, John.

And a follow-up, if I may. We seem to be, as we were talking about for the last 20-odd minutes, heading up to a collision course here between the executive branch and the judiciary branch. What can history tell us about previous moments when that has occurred? What should we be looking for? How worried should we be? I think we should be very worried.

The rule of law has managed to prevail, often by the skin of its teeth. Even the fabled line of Andrew Jackson's, which he did not utter, that John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it. That was something that was invented later. But Marshall was a great politician. He was a great chief justice. He understood how to keep the Constitution at the center of the drama without going nose to nose with the executive.

So it matters about the judges matter here and how they want to frame decisions. And fundamentally, question is, will President Trump decide that he's going to obey follow the checks and balances, or are we going to permanently rupture this very delicate mechanism that we have? Because it is delicate. It is very delicate mechanism that we have, because it is delicate. It is very delicate. It's about, it's not just the substance of the law,

or the letter of the law, it's about the spirit of the law. And I think that if this becomes the test, then we've had it earlier than I thought we'd have it. I thought it would come this year, but not quite so quickly. Question is, are we a government, to quote Gerald Ford, are we a government of laws or are we a government of men and more to the point of a single man? That's the question we're about to answer.

John Meacham, thank you very much. And David Ignatius, if you could stay with us, we're going to expand this conversation to Ukraine in just a moment. A quick look at the weather before we go to break. At least 40 people have died after a powerful storm system swept through the Midwest and the South. Tornadoes and strong winds slammed more than half a dozen states Thursday, hitting Missouri the hardest. Twelve people have died in that state. The governor described the scale of devastation as staggering. This was the scene in Texas where extreme winds flipped semi-trucks, causing major pileups.

Here you see a school bus thrown up against a high school in Alabama. In Kansas, eight deaths were reported after more than 50 vehicles crashed due to a dust storm which caused low visibility. Fatalities were also reported in Mississippi, where the deadly storm ripped through communities, leveled homes, and caused widespread destruction. And this morning, the storms that ravaged much of the south and the Midwest are now heading east, triggering multiple tornado warnings. NBC News correspondent Adrienne Brodus joins us live north of St. Louis, Missouri.

Adrienne, Missouri bore the brunt of the storm, leaving 12 dead. What are the conditions like where you are? You know, cleanup efforts have been underway all weekend, but if you look behind me, this is pretty much what you'll see throughout many neighborhoods across the community. Piles of tree limbs and branches that still need to be hauled away. That's one challenge, but there's another big problem. Across the state, 25,000 customers are without power. You're able to see us this morning because we have portable TV lights. But what happens when we turn those lights off?

It looks like this. Pretty much darkness. And that is the reality for many people in this neighborhood and other neighborhoods. Night after night, no power. But we can turn our lights back on. They are hoping and thankful that power crews have been working around the clock 24-7 trying to restore power. This neighborhood is without power, and so is another neighborhood a short distance away from here in Franklin County. That's where an EF2

tornado ripped through that community, roofs missing from houses, walls gone. We spoke with some residents who say they barely had time to get out, including this father we heard from. Take a listen. I just jumped off the steps and I made it to the bathroom. And then I walked over to my room door and the whole room door hinge and everything the, or with the hinges and the frame blew off and blew me into the wall. As soon as it blew me into the wall, I crawled into my son's room, I tipped over his crib and curled up with him in the corner until a storm

passed. Those families we spoke with telling us they're fortunate, they walked away with their lives, but we do know this dangerous storm turned deadly. In a short few blocks away from where we are, that's where Jennifer Brewington lost her life. Authorities say she was electrocuted by downed power lines. Her family remembering her this morning as someone who was kind and loved everyone she came in contact with. So the cleanup here will continue today as at least across the region, 67 reported tornadoes. Back to you. NBC's Adrienne Brodus, thank you so much for your reporting this morning. And still ahead on Morning Joe, we'll have the latest from Eastern Europe as Ukraine

withdraws troops from an area of Russian territory that had been a key victory for its forces. Also ahead we'll go through the U.S. strikes on Houthis, the Houthi-controlled areas of Yemen over the weekend and how it could impact that region. Plus, we'll have more about the possible fractures inside the Democratic Party following the fight over funding the government. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back.

Half past the hour. Time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is looking to push out the director of that country's domestic intelligence agency. According to the New York Times, the move is raising concerns among critics that he is seeking to undermine its independence. The prime minister has repeatedly clashed with the security establishment over his handling of the war in Gaza.

It also follows investigations by the agency into allegations against several of Netanyahu's aides. Thousands of people packed Copacabana Beach in Brazil to show support for the country's former far-right president, Jair Bolsonaro. He's facing charges of plotting a coup. More than 400 people have been convicted for their roles in a 2023 riot when Bolsonaro's diehard fans trashed the Supreme Court after his election loss. The ex-president has denied any wrongdoing.

And the Vatican has released a photo of Pope Francis, the first since he was hospitalized more than four weeks ago. The pontiff celebrated mass on Sunday with other priests. The 88-year-old has been fighting bronchitis and pneumonia in both lungs. So the New York Times is reporting that Ukrainian troops have withdrawn from almost all of Russia's Kursk region. As Ukraine's effort to seize and occupy Russian territory appears to be coming to an end. According to the Times, citing military analysts, Ukrainian forces controlled some 500 square

miles of Russian territory at the height of the offensive. But by this weekend, they were clinging it to a narrow strip of land along the Russian-Ukrainian border covering barely 30 square miles. The Ukrainian military command reportedly said their troops had pulled back to what it described as more defensible ground inside Russia along the border, using hilly terrain to gain better fire control over approaching Russian forces.

Meanwhile, President Trump says he plans on talking with Russian President Vladimir Putin tomorrow as he pushes for an end to the war. We're doing pretty well, I think, with Russia. And we'll see if we have something to announce maybe by Tuesday. I'll be speaking to President Putin on Tuesday. A lot of work has been done over the weekend. We want to see if we can bring that war to an end.

Maybe we can. Maybe we can't. But I think we have a very good chance. David Ignatius, so far, these peace talks and this talk of a ceasefire appears to have left Ukraine twisting in the wind. What do you make of where Donald Trump stands right now as it pertains to Russia and its choices that they have on the table right now? So, Mika, we don't know about the conversations that President Trump is having with Russian

President Putin. We know that Putin, in his public comments after Ukraine agreed to join the negotiations, come to the table, were pretty sharply critical, indicating all the things Russia didn't want to do. And so what's really important is what the United States has been saying back to Putin, whether we've drawn lines and said, no, you're going to have to allow real sovereignty for Ukraine. You're going to have to observe ceasefire lines. You're going to have to accept that there'll be security guarantees.

Those are the key issues. President Trump said last night that he's going to be talking to Putin on Tuesday. What's that conversation going to be like? Often Trump offers very limited visibility into his conversations with Putin. This is something we in the news business really need to push to find out as much as we can about the dialogue. As in the final stages of any war, you see each side pushing for maximum control of territory. So the Russian push to drive Ukrainian forces out of this small area, a curse just over

the Ukrainian border appears to be successful. As you noted earlier, the territory they control has shrunk from 500 square miles down to about 30, and they'll be lucky to get their troops out across the border and not be encircled and really cut off. But we're now entering a week in which we'll begin to see more what the actual trade-offs in any peace agreement are gonna look like. And we'll hear from the Ukrainians,

is this acceptable to us? We'll hear from the Europeans. Does this defend our security against what they view as an expansionist Russia? So this process, which President Trump has pushed since the campaign, wanting to end the war, now we're finally getting into the actual bargaining.

You talk about the ways in which what's happening on the ground influences the leverage that these parties might have in these early phases of negotiations. It brings into clear focus why the administration, toying with, pulling, and then giving back intelligence aid as well as military aid is so impactful. But when you talk to your sources in the Ukrainian orbit, is there an awareness on their part that a physical loss in ground means a potential diplomatic loss in their

negotiating ground as well? So, Ali, the reason that Ukraine invaded Russia was to grab some territory so it would be able to bargain to get back some of the territory that Russia now occupies within Ukraine. It was a bold move. It was somewhat controversial one because they took some of their best troops and moved them into this Kursk offensive. That, you know, now some months later is not turning out well and I'm sure there'll be some criticism as people look back. You know, the Ukrainians want above all to have a stable and secure line of control when there is a ceasefire. They've agreed now that

they're prepared to accept a ceasefire for 30 days and and perhaps longer But this is going to be a real test of strength diplomatic military in every way I've been talking over the weekend to European diplomats who feel that they that they they are going to be Stepping in as Ukraine supporters in this next period It won't be the US that will be the key backer of Ukraine. It will be Europe. It's a very different situation. And that's another factor we've got to look at very carefully.

David, really big picture, trying to pull all what's going on into the picture here. We have Europe coalescing behind Ukraine, responding to Trump's tariffs and his isolationist, not only words, but actions. Trump's team working at warp speed, to use a Trump term, on everything from mass firings to even what some would call a purge in the DOJ, these deportations that appear to have no due process attached to them, flouting potentially a judge's order. All this while he is in these high-stakes peace talks with Russia as it pertains to Ukraine, the potential of a world war breaking out,

depending on how they go. Could you talk about how all these actions that are happening so quickly, Could you talk about how all these actions that are happening so quickly, and many of them being carried out by Trump's team, may not be the speed of them, and even the actual fact of some of them, may not be in Donald Trump's best interest. He likes to be a winner. And how is what everything is happening at the same time potentially going to put him in the opposite position. So, Mika, Donald Trump really is turning the world upside down. The traditional alliances, expectations about the United States have been changed.

The world that your dad and the people he worked with worked so hard to construct is being dismantled. And one rule in life and in foreign policy is be careful what you wish for. Europe is now in the process of reacting to the possibility that the United States won't be around in its traditional role to protect Europe. So they're beginning to make their own plans. One of those plans for countries like Germany, even a country like Poland, may be to think about having their own nuclear weapons, because they can't depend on the United States nuclear

umbrella, which has been an absolutely central pillar of the order that we've lived through for 75 years. Europeans think we may need to defend ourselves. So if you think about a world with more and more nuclear powers Is that in the interest of the United States? Is that a world that Donald Trump really wants to be creating world that's more secure and stable for the United States? Europe similarly as the United States pushes and pushes more on trade begins to make its own trading deals It looks to China says we can't rely on the United States

We better think about a new way of dealing with China. Is that in the United States' interest? So I think this is a period where everybody's revaluing how the United States works, how dependable it is, and Trump and his associates need to think very carefully, is the net outcome of this in the interest of the United States going to help our economy or the opposite? And Mika, to David's point about how when Trump and Putin speak, whether on the phone or in meetings, and that includes Helsinki, we learn very little of it from Trump.

But more than that, the one theme is he tends to be very deferential to Putin. So we'll need to see how this phone call goes tomorrow and whether, once more, Trump almost takes the Moscow talking points, even his true social posts the other day. It was Putin's version of events there in Kursk. He sort of regurgitated for his followers. That will be telling as we start to head into these high stakes talks. David Ignatius, thank you so much for your insights this morning. We'll be reading your latest column in The Washington Post. And coming up, March Madness teams are set for tipoff.

Pablo Torre joins us to go through the top seeds and surprises from Selection Sunday. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. We're going to take a quick break to talk about sports here as we look at the Washington Monument, 6 45 a.m. there in Washington. And what else? What time is it? Time to fill out those March Madness brackets. Yes, the 60.

I'm working on mine. I know. We have Jamaica scurrying to work on hers right here on set. The 68 team field for the men's NCAA tournament is indeed set. Auburn, yes, Auburn is number one, number one overall seed while the other top seeds around the bracket, Duke, Houston and Florida. The selection committee favored Auburn despite three losses over the past two weeks as well as a loss to Duke back in December. But the SEC was the clear winner on selection Sunday

with a men's tournament record 14 teams making the field. That includes Texas, whose 15 losses is tied for the most for an at-large bid team to earn, an at-large team to earn a bid. We should note, an SEC team is either a one or a two seed in all four of the regions here. And another surprise, North Carolina was the last team in making it as an 11th seed raising questions about whether its bid had anything to do with its athletic director

who also chairs the tournament selection committee. He denied it. Meanwhile, St. John's earned a number two seed in Ripatino's second season as their head coach. Now the sixth team the Patino has coached to the NCAA tournament. Joining us now the host of Pablo Torre Finds Out on Metal Arch Media MSNBC contributor Pablo Torre. So let's do we're going to get to the women's bracket in a moment. Let's take a moment on the men's first big headlines SEC of course. It's remarkable. And the back page right there, St. John's. Yeah, so St. John's, the local story, Rick Pitino, the vampire king of college

basketball. If you didn't follow his career, some of the craziest scandals in the history of college sports and also arguably given what he has done at all these different programs despite every possible reason to not have him employed, one of the greatest coaches of all time. But it's remarkable that I come on this show, a show dripping, Mika, of course, accepted, in just unabashed SEC Homerism and have to deal. I just have to deal with the fact that, yes, everybody

but at least in South Carolina from that 16-team conference is in this thing, John. It's just unprecedented, actually. They used to stick to football. Now they do basketball, too, the SEC. Let's talk about a couple of the other high-profile teams here. Duke, another one that the nation's not exactly going to rally behind, perhaps. But Cooper Flag, the most highly touted NBA prospect out of college ranks we've had in

a few years, injured, missed the conference tournament but expected back next week. Their number one seed and a trendy pick to win it all or at least collide with Alabama in the regional finals. Yeah, the elite A at Duke, Alabama. It's just one of those. Again, it's Joe Scarborough, mad lib of sorts, right, to have Alabama that good. But Cooper Flag, like part of the story of this season, big picture is that a lot of people worried about the transfer portal, about NIL, what is this going to do to the

sport? The reality is you have the top dozen NBA prospects in college. And Cooper Flagg is the number one overall pick. That's all but assured. He seems like his legs are going to be healthy enough to play in this tournament And so yes Duke is the favorite to me and it's not particularly close because they got that guy Yeah, and from Maine not exactly a college basketball hotbed But we New Englanders appreciate it before we switch the women's basket real quick Is there a sleeper or two you like here at upset pick?

St. John's and number two I think has a chance to make it to the final four They would have to beat Florida to do it. But Gonzaga, Gonzaga is always again, maybe it's my Catholic school education. Gonzaga has always been a Cinderella, a Cinderella candidate at the very least. And they're an eight seed in this one. I think they have a real shot at upsetting Houston to also make a final four run. I believe Gonzaga has now made the tournament something like 26 years in a row. Every year.

Let's turn to the women's side now. UCLA has earned the number one overall selection for the first time in that school's history. The Bruins are joined by South Carolina, USC, and Texas as the top seeds. And Pablo, it's been a truism in recent years. Frankly, the women's tournament been better than the men's tournament with a lot of real stars.

Now, some of those stars have now moved on to the WNBA and ushering in a new era there. But give us a sense as to what you're looking for on the women's side. Yeah, I'll give you an easy one because Caitlin Clark's gone. Unfortunately, in case you fell asleep, she's out of there. But Juju Watkins at USC, she's the next big thing. And look, there are lots of really good teams.

Notre Dame is really good, obviously UCLA. But to me, and UConn as always with Page Becker's, but to me Juju Watkins at a USC is that next transcendent player. And if you're going to make time on a very busy weekend, Mika, to just carve out some time to see something, I would say go check out number one seated USC. I will do it. I will. All right, the host of Pablo Torre finds out on Metal Arch Media, MSNBC contributor Pablo Torre. Thank you so much. Come back.

Let's talk about other things. Mika, any time? I think you have range. In the back of my brain is a closet full of takes that's waiting to spill out onto this table just as a warning. Did you hear that, Bameer? A closet full of takes. Did you hear that, Dan?

We're ready for them. They're not all just about the latest Yankee pitching injury. We're going to go there. They're even more furious, you hear that, Bumir? A closet full of takes. Did you hear that, Dan? We're ready for them. In the control room? They're not all just about the latest Yankee pitching injury. We're going to go there. They're even more furious, you could argue, than that. Yes. I like it. I'm on it.

Still ahead, we'll speak with authors Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson about their new book, Abundance, which details how Democrats could win again. Plus NBC's Richard Engel is standing by in Ukraine, where Ukrainian troops have withdrawn from a key town. He'll bring us the latest in what he's seeing on the ground and what this means for the ongoing war with Russia. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. A few top of the hour,

let's take a quick look at the morning papers. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports that Wisconsin health officials are warning the state is at risk for a measles outbreak. The state's kindergartners have one of the country's lowest vaccination rates against the disease. Last year, less than 85% were up to date on the measles vaccine compared to about 93% of kindergartners nationwide. Only Idaho and Alaska have lower vaccination rates. The San Antonio Express News reports on firefighters working to contain the Crabapple Fire in rural parts of the Texas

Hill Country. The blaze has swelled to nearly 10,000 acres amid dry and windy conditions and is currently 55% contained. It's one of seven active wildfires in the state. And the Akron Beacon Journal reports on the recent surge in coffee prices. The combination of weather, variability, tariff uncertainty, and the growing global demand have all contributed to rising prices. The U.S. is the world's largest coffee importer.