Morning Joe - Morning Joe 3/20/25

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

Trump to sign executive order to begin shuttering the Education Department

Doge is not dismantling Social Security. And even with reconciliation, we are not allowed to touch Social Security. The work that I have specifically been doing, I am on the Judiciary Committee and the Natural Resources Committee. It's so bizarre to me how obsessed you are with federal government, but here's the thing. Wow, Republican Congresswoman Harriet Higman of Wyoming facing an angry crowd last night at her town hall.

It continues the trend of contentious meetings with constituents for Republican lawmakers. We're going to have more from that meeting as well as a look at the fired up crowd last night for a Democrat in New York. Plus, we have the latest on President Trump's efforts to shut down the Department of Education. He's set to sign an executive order today, but can he actually eliminate the department without an act of Congress? We'll go through that. Also ahead, an update on the legal back and forth between the Department of Justice and

the judge, questioning the administration about its deportation flights to El Salvador. Attorney General Pam Bondi is trying to have it both ways, claiming they will comply and fight with the courts and continue with everything. We'll go through what we know about the president's call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyi, which follows his conversation with Vladimir Putin on Tuesday. A lot going on on this Tuesday morning. Good morning, everyone.

Welcome to Morning Joe. It's March 20th. Everyone doing okay? We're all here. Okay, you made it. Just walked in like two seconds ago. But you were talking. I've been here since when were we here?

No. 1945. How do you say 1946? We do a full rehearsal. Start to finish the show about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're still that train to Salt Lake City at the from yesterday. Now I tell you what we're talking about the gambler not down. No no no Chris and Claire we're kind of like what's going on here. They were

a little. I was with you guys got to know what to hold. I thought you guys cut off a little short. I thought thank you. I was like I want to have them all on serious like it realize it's a like yesterday, somebody brought it up so I love that they that we did that 2 days in a row. Yeah, okay ever now we're crushed out of cigarette faded off to sleep. Yeah, I got was that yeah, so the key the key line though if you're going to play the game.

You've got to learn how to play it right okay, unless you're Mike barnacle watching a baseball game. Yeah, while he was hosting the show that's doing all right that was unacceptable. We're going to bring some decorum call that's called. There is. There's no games that are doing over there. What you want to know. It's going he's trying to figure out how to use his phone and keeps texting the wrong person because. A single a game happening in Istanbul right now he's

watching. All right along with Joe Willie and maybe we have the co-host of our for that's when you know something wrong in your major major league career is when they sent you down to single a in this symbol is that all yeah, a road trip to. And then you know, it's a bit of expressly. I'm not talking when I'm talking you're not talking. The Spanish accent when. Okay, okay, I spoke I all right wow that means something

okay, I'm always said it to my dad things were okay NBC News national affairs analyst and partner and chief political columnist at Pock John Howman's here. MSNBC political analyst, Anand Giridharadas. He's publisher of the newsletter, The Inc. available in Substack and columnist and associate editor for The Washington Post, David Ignatius. We're all looking for reasons to smile this morning. We got David to smile. I saw that was a slight smile because what you get so one of his best pieces. Yeah, it's covering the single a now yeah, involved was the right here he was the

right of a couple years. He was that's how we met after we got out of prison. Yeah, I get to the top story. Can you I'm out of prison. Can you I'm going to the question. You're going to have. You're getting wired up there is this incredible town hall in Wyoming that were it was incredible. It was like a springsteen show can we see some more of it incredible you're going to see more of that because it is really a sign of what's happening out there is a record

company just called gave me a big advance. All right. Yeah, it definitely didn't happen. All right. President Trump is expected to sign. Oh, that's a line from Springsteen Rosalita. An executive order. They called it said, never send those tapes again. Why did I ask you to come into the New York studio? I'm not sure. I do like having you around.

It is wonderful to be with you. It is? Yeah. Alright. It's so great. We begin now. President Trump is expected to sign an executive order later today that would call for shutting down the Department of Education. would call for shutting down the Department of Education. According to the White House, Trump will hold an event with Education Secretary Linda McMahon and direct her to, quote,

take all necessary steps to facilitate the closure of the Department of Education and return education authority to the states. To be clear, the president does not actually have the power to formally close the department by himself. That would require an act of Congress. However, Trump can make it nearly impossible for department employees to carry out their

work, as shown by McMinn's recent move to cut its workforce in half. With a budget of roughly $270 billion, the Education Department is one of the smallest cabinet-level departments representing just 4 percent of the U.S. budget. The department does not dictate what is taught in classrooms. It does, however, oversee how federal money is distributed to schools with high rates of impoverished students and children with disabilities. In addition the department oversees roughly 1.6 trillion dollars in student loans which was a big issue in the Biden administration. So here we go. We can move to the next story.

Well, let's talk about this. Anybody have a feeling about this? Well, as you know it's not a new idea, right? No, I can tell. We're not shocked. Because that's what we, like, in 1994, the argument was we're going to take money and power and authority and put it as close to the classroom as possible. This is an old idea. The Department of Education started, I in 1979, in 1980 Ronald Reagan immediately

said let's keep education on state levels and local levels and again, push as much money, power and authority there. We've just seen though over the past 40 years that actually some coordination from Washington works and a conservative George W Bush actually was very effective pushing standards that a lot of people in the education establishment didn't like but by doing that from Washington DC you actually did get scores that went up. Well again a lot of people in the education establishment were kicking and screaming. And on top of that, they're just, we have learned, you know, a lot of states can't even

be trusted to take Medicaid. A lot of governors can't even be trusted to take Medicaid, to take care of their poorest, to take care of middle-class families. Before we get to the states, I think it's been so erratic and rash the way they've been making these cuts that you have to wonder if this is the proper... you have to question this. Right, I will say though this has been a conservative goal, like you said, an idea for a very long time, but what we found over the years is, again, the idea always was, give them money, the power, the authority

to the states, they would do the right things for their individual states. Legislative laboratories, that's just not happening now, especially, again, I use Medicaid as a perfect example where you have middle class Americans in rural America who are watching their hospitals shut down, their nursing homes shut down, you know, 50% of kids in rural America get their health care from Medicaid. And so if you're going to slash funding for Medicaid to impress your base, I can't even imagine what you're going to do with education. Yeah.

I mean, I think in the modern incarnation of cutting this, they are revealing something to citizens, which is they don't want the most educated citizenry possible because it's not helpful to them. People who can read and understand that climate change is happening are not favorable voters for them.

People who can read and understand what they're doing to Medicaid, to Social Security, what Elon Musk is doing, the better your reading comprehension is, the more you might not like what this administration is doing. So an educated citizenry is not in their interest and they're coming for it. It really goes to the divide, John, of MAGA, the MAGA world. And the divide is the populist vision, right?

And that populist vision is we're going to help working Americans. We're going to help people that elites have looked past. We're going to help them move up to the middle class, help them become more successful versus Steve Bannon's side, sort of the technocrats, the billionaire technocrats that really are running this. And so you do have the Steve Bannon versus the Elon Musk. Basically, civil war going on inside of MAGA and this is definitely, this is an example again of just what Anan said, which is, you know, slash, cut, don't even think twice about who you're hurting, what working class Americans in red state

America, blue state America you're hurting. I mean, I think if you went back to your crowd in 94 and people who were in favor of eliminating the Department of Education, a lot of people had various critiques that were level against the Republican Revolution back then. But the notion of like a new federalism applied in a kind of a somewhat philosophically coherent way was like a defensible idea, right? If you walk around with a guy who's in charge of the whole thing is like brandishing a chainsaw and is indiscriminate across all these agencies as you know, and Musk has been, it raises

the question of whether, to Mika's point before, about whether this is a thing that's in line with some real philosophical way of thinking about how to spend money on the national level or it's just kind of another looks like an easy target. Right. And I think to your point about the politics of this, and this is where Steve Bannon, we're here at the table, there's no one in the MAGA movement who's more aware of the number of MAGA voters who are on Medicaid and that the kind of the classic, the typical stereotype of a lot of right-wing media, which

is, you know, this is an inner-city program for a lot of Democratic voters. Most of them were either black or brown. It's just not true. Right. If you look at the map of congressional districts and look at who Medicaid affects, that is the political buzzsaw that they're looking into. And one of the interesting questions going buzzsaw that they're working into. And one of the interesting questions going forward is how they're going to try to deal

with that. What Bannon would say is we need to take a chainsaw to the Defense Department because we can then sort of say that's, you know, we're pouring our own ox. We're also going to cut Medicaid. But without that, we're not going to cut taxes for billionaires and multinational tech companies. He would say that as well. And we won't fight foreign wars. There's a big chunk of sort of the MAGA world that's there.

But the people that are running it could not be... They're billionaires and they're disconnected. I mean, Elon Musk so radically disconnected, he doesn't... Yeah, ask Elon Musk, so how does this work when you let Florida or Utah or Ohio run education? You know, back when we were talking about it, if you had asked Jeb Bush, how's it work?

Jeb would say, well, here's what we're doing in Florida. If you ask Mitt Romney in Utah, how would you use this money and say, this is what we got? George Voynovich in Ohio, they'd go down the list. That's just a different world. That's a different age. That's a different century. What we're seeing with Elon Musk is cuts by chainsaw.

There is no method to the madness. It's just cut first and hurt Americans later. That's what's happening. And by the way, as the biggest defense hawk, I mean, as the biggest budget hawk of anybody you certainly see in Washington, D.C., because I was there when we balanced the budget four years in a row, these cuts will not do anything to balance the budget if you're not willing to say no to tax cuts for billionaires and multinational corporations. If you're not willing to cut at the Pentagon, if you're not willing to look at wealthier Americans with Social Security and start talking about means testing, millionaires needing Social Security, billionaires needing Social Con.

It's ridiculous. But they're not going to talk about that. They're going to go after food programs for poor kids. They're going to take lunch, breakfast and lunch away from poor kids. But they will not take tax cuts away from billionaires. And if you're the Democratic, I just got to say, if you're the Democratic I just got to say if you're the Democratic Party and you can't win. Please go sell used cars because you're in the wrong business.

Yeah, and that tax cuts on there what say yes, let me tell you under 15 minutes that before just start begging the table, he's ready. The tax cut fight off sees on is what's on the horizon that's what's the Trump team is building towards you're right, I must is cutting so fast and so indiscriminately the not only is he had to say OK we've made some mistakes but some of the highest people administration at JD Vance over the weekend was the gas must

has made some errors here. There are some government workers who do good jobs we want them to stay so that that's the world of chaos that is developing all these decisions, including ones that are longer held conservative priority like eliminating the part of education and there is there's a real sense here of what happens when this goes back to the states, particularly for students who have learning disabilities who have learning challenges, specially students

those who want to make software here without these protections and what's also let's think of the time here we're coming out of a period of extraordinary learning loss because of COVID and because of remote schooling. And now potentially you're setting the education systems across this country. We do more disruptive times. Who knows how that will affect students?

Exactly right. And by the way, this brings it all the way back to how we came in the show when you had Harriet Hagman, the congressman in Laramie, Wyoming, getting screamed at, loudly booed with chants of deport Elon Musk from her Republican audience, people in that room. That's what happens when you cut 20% of the VA. That's what happens when you cut 50% of the Department of Education on it.

That's what happens when you talk about cutting Medicaid. These are real cuts that impact real people's lives, whether they're Democrats or Republicans. And every time we see one of these Republican town halls, they have an excuse. They say, well, they're busing in Democrats to yell at us. At some point, you can't say that when it's town hall after town hall of your voters, of your constituents screaming at you. Yeah. And you know, I just, it's March 20th, we're exactly two months into this administration and I actually think from my point of view there's something we all we all think

it. It's also the spring equinox so that's that's fun. That was a body blow. That's all it was. I thought he was going to say the paper stuff. We're two months in, but we're six years older. It's very, the math is incredibly weird. I had black hair in January. This is a weird-stron Sterling.

This is Twilight Zone. But two months in, I think we can take a little bit of stock. And the one hopeful thing, because I think people out there need some measure of hope, is that they could have run a playbook that we've seen throughout history and other countries of a very popular authoritarianism. They could have stuck to the stuff that people are thirsting for, even if it's illegal. But this is not that. They are centering a bunch of things that are extremely unpopular. This is like layoff authoritarianism, right? This is cutting rural hospitals authoritarianism. This is cutting the VA authoritarianism.

So it's a very weird thing where there's, this is the world's richest man marauding with a chainsaw authoritarianism or a change saw a change I mean, hey, I can't I say you get to just give up that visual so if I'm a Democratic congressman I've already cut my ads. Yeah, if I'm running against a Republican opponent, it's already caught. It's a gold chain The gold change They'll find a gold chain saw. But a gold chain saw. That is not the chain saw my mom used. A gold leaf chain saw.

I mean the music is incredible. It's a chain saw for babies. No, I mean, come on. The commercial writes itself. Itself, Anand. It writes itself. I mean, I'm sure the Democrats will find a way to make that commercial boring. Don't just assume anything that is not a

place for assumptions. Yeah, we're not here saying yes, that chainsaws are bad. Why change. Every. the. 87 billionaires riding the play as they're guiding the VA they're guiding the Department of Education we're going to see come to these. The most extraordinary story this is this year and next year yeah about taking back America for

this they just they deserve a permanent full retirement and just look at just get a whole new crop of people. Send them all to France. I mean seriously. To that point, not to go to politics here because we've got to get to Ukraine with Willy. But Chuck Schumer's move to actually, I mean I don't know why it's so unpopular within the Democratic Party. I understand a lot of people wanted to fight, fight, fight, but this is leaving it wide open for everyone to understand who did what here, who was in charge, who made the decisions, and who used the chainsaw. There's no question they should be able

to come up with incredible material. And the thing is, Willie, as we said yesterday, you have Republicans on the Hill that were saying we were just setting up the yesterday. You have Republicans on the Hill or said we were just setting up the Democrats you have people in the White House saying we were just setting up the Democrats we want to shut down the government we're setting this up so that shut down the government and as Jonathan has reported and other people have reported Republicans said and once they shut it down yeah, we were never going to open it back up again

we were just going to you know let Donald Trump and Elon Musk spend the next couple years deciding what was you know necessary and what wasn't necessary. This really shouldn't be a Democrat should focus on the chainsaw yet and the tax cuts for billionaires and multinational corporations while the V a's getting slash yeah, well you have veterans who served in our worst

yelling at their constituents about where my job go from the guy with the chainsaw right yeah, there you go. All right let's turn to Ukraine country says it is ready now to implement a partial ceasefire with Russia regarding energy targets this comes after president Trump's phone call with Ukrainian president Zelensky yesterday and Trump's call with Putin on Tuesday. There is some confusion this morning

over whether civilian infrastructure is included in that agreement, something Zelensky referred to in a social media post following the call with President Trump. In a statement put out yesterday by National Security Advisor Mike Walz and Secretary of State Marco Rubio, there was no mention of civilian infrastructure. White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt also did not answer questions asking for clarification

on that. Rubio and Waltz's statement referenced several times Zelensky thanked President Trump for his leadership and expressed gratitude for the United States' support. Trump posted on social media that he had a very good call with Zelensky. So, David A. Natsch has a tale of two phone calls. We had two days ago, Zelensky, excuse me, President Trump talking to President Putin yesterday,

President Trump with President Zelensky. Where do we land after all this conversation? So, Willie, we land at the beginning of a negotiation, this very small initial step to each side agree not to hit energy infrastructure facilities, and exactly what that means is still being worked out. Zelensky suggested that Ukraine will enumerate each building that it understands

is included within this description and then if the Russians attack those buildings, Ukraine will correspondingly attack similar buildings in Russia. But it's a slow start to a process that's going to take clearly many weeks. President Trump had talked about this as a quick move toward peace. We're not going to see that Yeah, I think the fact that the phone call between Trump and Zelensky After the disastrous meeting they had in the Oval Office went so well yesterday is a positive sign

And it's also interesting that there are beginnings to be rumbles in Washington of ways of applying sanctions against Russia Which was quite strident in rejecting most of the terms that would accompany a real peace agreement, saying the U.S. has to cut off all military aid and intelligence to Ukraine. It was beginning to be a pushback. Senator Lindsey Graham has said he's preparing a package of sanctions against Russia, which would be available to use quickly If Russia continued to resist President Trump's pressure to make these negotiations work, so You know early days

signs of much more willingness enthusiasm for the peace process from Ukraine Zelensky than from from Putin and The the ball in a sense is in the court of the moderator, the mediator, President Trump, who now asks aside, am I going to be tough on Russia, tough on Putin, to get them to change their terms? Am I going to exceed, or are we just going to kind of drift

back into the frozen conflict world that has been permanent for Ukraine since really since 2014. So David, you consider this to be a good first step? So it's a first step. I wouldn't characterize it Joe as super positive, but President Trump has gotten the ball rolling. The person who's gonna be the principal mediator

with Putin, Steve Wittkopf, gets good marks. When I talked to former Biden administration officials who've gotten to know him, they said this is a guy who's pretty tough negotiator. Public doesn't know much about him, but I think people are buckling in for what they recognize will be a long, difficult process. The early GWIZ talk, you know, I'll be receiving the Nobel Peace Prize in a couple months. That's giving way to more realistic assessment of the negotiations. Well, and if you look at what Marco Rubio, not Marco Rubio, what Lindsey Graham's doing right now as far as putting together a sanctions package, that's something that's going to

be absolutely necessary if they're going to push Vladimir Putin closer to a deal that's actually workable with Ukraine. All right, we'll be continuing this. Also still ahead on morning Joe, we're gonna have the latest on the fallout over the Trump administration's decision to deport hundreds of Venezuelan migrants to El Salvador. What the Attorney General is saying about the judge who ordered the Justice Department to provide more information on those flights. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. Back 27 past the hour time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines

this morning. There is encouraging news when it comes to one of the country's most significant health threats. New data shows a 25% drop in drug overdose deaths compared to the same period the year before. That's in part due to a decline in the use of opioids. Researchers say the numbers suggest a return to pre-COVID rates after the pandemic worsened

and already out of control crisis. The MTA is doing away with the MetroCard on New York City's public transit system. The agency will stop selling the cards on December 31st. So instead of swiping a MetroCard at the turnstile, riders will now pay with digital wallets on their smartphones or by tapping a credit or debit card. There's also a tap and go option using cards sold at vending machines. Hyland, I don't like it.

I don't like it at all. I don't like it at all. That's a big change. It's like an end of an era. Really is. Those cards are totemic. Yes, totemic. Exactly what I was gonna say.

You know, it's just about to say that. Token, the metric mark. Oh my God. Yeah, the token. Pull it out of your lap. All right, and a masterpiece to say that token the metric. Masterpiece by Austrian painter who stuff and is now on sale for more than 16 million dollars really is an important.

Yeah, with a nice by this guy created in 1897 was a recently on Earth and deemed genuine was covered in dirt when the current owners walked into a gallery to find out more about it. No one to for 15 Joe. A couple of those things are as we mentioned the top of the show Republican congresswoman Harriet Higman of deep red Wyoming faced a rowdy crowd during a town hall last

night. Yeah, but Wyoming's a very progressive state. Hard to bust people into a organized enough to bust a lot of people in the wild. That's a pretty that's a pretty rain and general and so I'm not aware of her. Yeah, they're not organized enough to get sandwich orders right it like a person I know I've been let alone bust people in from Berkeley or okay last night almost constituents packed the room and aired their frustrations with some of the loudest

reaction coming. But Hagen stop spoke about her support for Doge. In fact, in ciliation, we are not allowed to touch social security. The work that I have specifically been doing, I am on the Judiciary Committee and the Natural Resources Committee. I worked for the U.S. Department of Agriculture helping Wyoming family farmers deal with drought until I was fired a month ago in the mass firings, and despite only having the highest marks in my performance review in a state where so many farmers rely on government programs for drought and disaster relief Trump's plans to cut these programs and the people who administer them coupled with the tariffs will decimate Wyoming farms and rural communities what are you doing about that? I disagree. I disagree.

I come from the ag community. I'm well aware of what kind of programs are out there. It's so bizarre to me how obsessed you are with federal government, but here's the thing All the damage is to me is you guys are going to have a heart attack if you don't calm down. I'm sorry. Your hysteria is just for you and the talk. How invalidating. Don't do that. Willie, for the uninitiated, who don't know Wyoming politics, they weren't saying boo.

They were saying hey. It's not baseball. It's not what's in place so I don't really follow politics and my in my in my business, you really have to but Wyoming. Did that go for for the govern 72 did a go. Well, I have no is Wyoming, no kind of union and there are 50 of them. Yeah, that's Jack 50 gave more of its vote as a percentage to Donald Trump then did Wyoming real 71% for Donald

Trump's the around 70 last time right now I said there's always an excuse. Yeah, so afterward yeah, so in Higman and her staff said well this was held in Laramie which is a full of college kids. It's all done if you've ever been to the University of Wyoming, yeah, it's not exactly wouldn't call it a hippie school. Yeah, early yeah, you know what a great school. There's only one congressional district in Wyoming, it's the

whole states one congressional district and so that Harry Hagman just for those of you don't remember There's only one congressional district in Wyoming. It's the whole state's one congressional district and so that Harriet Hegman just for those of you don't remember she's the woman who beat Liz Cheney in the primary and went out to take that seat so there's a particular kind of poignance to. Yeah. Wow. When you're telling your voters to calm down you may not be with them. Don't be hysterical. You're calling voters hysterical. Yeah, good luck in the couple. Hey everyone just sit down and shut up for a second. I have some things to say. I don't agree.

We're seeing this again and again. What's going to happen to you? Where these Republican congressmen and women are standing in a room across from their voters as you did a million times and taking the side of Elon Musk saying, I support Doge, I support Elon Musk over what you're telling me right now. It's extraordinary. I'm telling you, there nothing that that your constituents like more that when you show independence and you say as I

did I disagree with Bill Clinton here here here here in here, it's not good for you I disagree with newt gingrich and Bob Dole and Republicans and all of these different places. I mean if it's all about helping constituents, this is actually an easy call. And you actually can stand up to Elon Musk and live to tell about it. The perfect example of it politically, live to tell about it, perfect example was in the transition. Elon Musk came out and I think Donald Trump did too, came out and

told Republicans, you are going to vote for the CR, or we're going to target you. Elon said this, we're going to destroy you, and you will not be elected in Congress. Something along those lines. 38 voted no. And they said, basically, screw you, I know my constituents better than you know my constituents. I'm going to do what I need to do. I mean, that's the thing. If you have a relationship with your constituents, you can talk to them.

You can go to those meetings and you can go, I agree with you, veterans should not have. You know, their VA benefits slashed. I agree with you veterans that have served in in our country's uniform for 20 years should not be fired randomly by a a a billionaire immigrant from South Africa who doesn't seem to understand the most basic concepts of Madisonian democracy you can say that and what's your job and that's the example of Republicans who have defied them so far. But it can't be overstated. There's real fear among Republicans on Capitol Hill of,

it's always been, you don't want to cross Trump, you don't want to get the tweet taking you down or endorsing your primary opponent. But now it's also Musk because he has the money to bankroll. It's a new phenomenon. Some Republicans have told me this last week or so. An unlimited campaign checkbook to take you down. And there is fear of crossing them. And that is what we're seeing time and time again, where they're forced to defend the most unpopular cuts

in deep red districts because they don't want to cross Elon. John Hileman, though, the White House knows Elon's numbers are going down. I said to somebody close to the White House, he's a heat shield, I understand. He's a heat shield for the president. And inside the White House, they're saying, no, no. He's not really, because his low numbers

are starting to impact the president's numbers. And look, some people can sort of see the end game here, where he starts to become more of Albatross than he's worth keeping around at the moment though to lemurs point if you're Harriet Hegman you you are the beneficiary You've seen what happens when Donald Trump and the MAGA movement turn against Liz One of the most rock-ribbed conservatives in the party. So, you know the power of getting primaried. That's how you got there She you can imagine why she's scared. I'm not having a sympathy for her.

Yeah, I've seen the wrong positions here on a lot of things and she's going against her own constituents. But she has a very vivid memory of what it means to get crosswise with Trump. The job's just not worth it. Allowing veterans, allowing children children allowing the elderly to to to lose their health care and nursing homes like you take a place like Laramie Wyoming. Those those citizens are so dependent on Medicaid funding

for their hospitals for their primary providers, I bet you 40% 3040% of children their health care comes from Medicaid all of these things that they're slashing the Department of Education I guarantee you it's a lot more important to them than it is in like Manhattan This is a you put a piece of gum in your mouth Yeah, I just saw that was distracted I just saw that. I'm distracted. That wasn't gum. Are you?

Go ahead. Did you take drugs this morning? No, I saw it. I didn't do it. Anyway, and we got a wrap. This is a really big country with great philosophical variety. People feel all kinds of things. That's normal.

People in rural areas think differently. That's all fine. No one in America voted for apartheid era Elon. Nobody. To be in charge of anything. Voted for that. No one in America. It's not conservative. voted for apartheid era Elon Nobody to be in charge of anything voted for them no one in America it's not conservative what he's doing

it's not libertarian what he's doing it is personalistic politics where a wannabe autocrat and Donald Trump has outsourced the slashing and burning of the republic to apartheid era Elon and no one wants this and they are gonna find out Anand do not discount the Afrikaner vote in Laramie.

By the way, if you want an interesting take on Elon Musk, which you're saying, you must see what Bill Burr is going around saying about Elon Musk. So good, so good. Oh my God. Put him in charge of Democom's. Thank you, John, John Hyman, spit it out. Coming up, we're just a few hours away from the official start of Demcoms. Thank you, John. John Hyman spit it out. Coming up, we're just a few hours away

from the official start of March Madness. MSNBC contributor, Pablotorian ESPN college basketball analyst, Jay Bealus, joined us to break down. This big. The brackets. This is big. That's next on Morning Joe.

Jay's here. The stretches where they They showed some good fight, but mountaineers have had just too much. Yeah, just losing way too much with rogers not being on the floor nice cut Unleashed now this night all about the mountaineers from mount saint marys Their best season as a Division I program just got better. All teams are out of fouls. Texas is in the double bonus from this point forward.

He misses the second. And Xavier's got it. Texas trying to get to him. Two seconds. get it. Xavier pulling off a big comeback in fact it's biggest of the season last night a racing a 13 point deficit to beat Texas 86 to 80 advance out of that first 4 as the 11 seed now set to face 6 seeded Illinois go online at you also saw some amount Saint Mary's their small

school in Maryland 83 to 72 winner over American at a DC in last night's battle 16 seeds that earns the Mountaineers shot against Duke have top seeded to how great is college basketball is the best we got and 2 nights ago you had a great finish in the 16 game that it's been great already. With that, now the full tournament bracket has been set. The remaining 64 teams prepare to take the court in 32 games over the next two days. The madness tips off just a few hours from now.

Let's bring in the host of Pablo Torre Finds Out onadowlark Media MSNBC contributor Pablo Torre and college basketball analyst for ESPN and ESPN insider Jay Billis. This is huge man. How did we get Jay? How did we? Is this like a gleaming? Is this like NIL? Did we have to pay him?

Like is this like college? Yeah. A Ferrari Jay. Worth it. Yeah. Worth it. He knows how to play the game these days. He knows how to play it right.

He knows how to play the game. He does. Wendell Larson. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Auburn got the number one overall seed but for my money a Duke team that you know a little bit about with a somewhat healthy now Cooper flag look has been very very tough to beat through these last three months or so. Yeah Willie Auburn has been the best team throughout the course of the regular season right with Duke Duke has the most talented team. They're the biggest team in the country, but they're young in spots. Cooper Flagg is right there with Jani Broom of Auburn for National Player of the Year.

He was injured in the ACC tournament. He sprained his ankle. He's expected to play in the first round game against Mount St. Mary's on Friday. And they've got, but they've got other young players. And that's really the only question mark about Duke Winning a national championship is are they experienced enough? At key positions, I think that they are

But there's a lot of competition out there and nobody right now is playing better than or deeper than Or bigger than or has better guards than Florida Florida is a juggernaut right now. And I would have picked St. John's to go to the final four if not for being in the same bracket as Florida. Yeah, Florida has looked great. I think a lot of people open their eyes to them over that SEC tournament.

They're really good. You mentioned St. John's. Wanna ask you about them. A lot of talk about them, not just because they're a good, tough team, but of course because of their coach, Rick Pitino went through won the regular season title won the Big East title feeling like the 80s again Florida it sounds like you think might be in their way but how good is St. John's how far can they go.

They're legit Willie they have outstanding players at the key positions you know their point guard is Kaderi Richmond He transferred in from Seton Hall. R.J. Lewis is their wing leading scorer over 18 a game, and their big man, Zubiedjefor, transferred in from Kansas, and he's been spectacular, especially over the last 15 games. And Rick Petino's done another great job with this team. In the second year of every stop he's had

with college teams, they've taken a huge jump. And that's been the case at St. John's. As you know better than anybody, the Garden's been full. New York City's energized over St. John's again. But because they can defend at a really high level, they're not a great shooting team, but they can still make shots.

But because they defend so well, and they're so relentless defensively and on the glass, there's not a team out there they cannot beat. It's just there are a few teams out there that I think are better that would win in a seven game series. But in a one off like the NCAA tournament, there's nobody they cannot beat. And again, they're going to be running into a buzz saw like Florida Florida and again, it's an Alabama grad and somebody that's followed Alabama basketball this year. Florida has just destroyed us both both times.

They played us. They look great. All right. So listen. Yes, I love Chris Wallings. Jim Rat. Love watching him in the 80s. I love whenever St. John's wins's it gets so exciting around the city right

yeah, I mean I just want to hold up the back cover of the post I was just going to clearly but real image of Rick Patino but but but that said though does Saint John's not really is that not exhibit one and how broken. And sports are I'm serious whether you know football with you can the basketball just how broken this sports are. I'm serious, whether you're talking about football, whether you're talking about basketball, just how broken this system is. It's a different game.

I want to also just separate art from the artist here. Rick Pitino is just one of the most scandalized characters in the history of college sports. He's also one of its all-time greats. And this- Great coach. And this, Joe, to your point, is his time. The era of NIL, the era of the transfer portal the stuff that makes coaches scare it's so fascinating this season. Some of

that anxiety about this game is different not going to be the same well it turns out the college basketball broadly has a lot of NBA prospects in it we've seen them will see him all month. It has the coaches who we've known to succeed in the era before this stuff was legal are succeeding yet again. And so Rick Pitino, when it comes to the new rules being some of the old rules he used to break.

Absolutely the story. And I have St. John's as much as Jay Billis is a guy who watches this stuff so much more closely than me. I got St. John's winning the whole thing. He's an unkillable vampire God. And I say that with the kindest of intentions. Well, what about Patino going up against Calipari? That's what I'm on.

That's what I want to ask you. This is like Sith Lord. That's what I'm saying. Sith Lord. History is doing. Red lightsabers clashing. That's right. History is doing a course correction here.

We've got Patino versus Calipari, hopefully, in the second round. That's the greatest matchup in coaching history, given the past. I would, but John wouldn't. Probably in there, but go ahead. There is, in that matchup, two guys who were hailed, criticized as villains, both being guys who are now

plucky underdogs, who have steered programs back, who may, not coincidentally for Mike Barnicle's mileage have some Massachusetts backgrounds just coincidentally. Yeah, which is why Barnacle loves him so much. Pablo, you need to go, right? Don't you have to get on a flight. Yeah. But if you want to hear a pick before I do. Please, please give me Jay Billis again. Jay, I've seen Jay's bracket. Jay is the preeminent college basketball authorities brilliant he's got all Chuck in the

final four Jay Jay I know he watches these teams he's like I cannot rationally justified not picking the four one seeds I got Alabama State upsetting Auburn can I go out on that what I go out can I go out on a prediction like that. And yeah, you're right it's time for a tree in Galileo this way. Yeah, you know, I don't even know where to go. And that's a really quickly before we let you know because listen, I've got to protect your career. Yeah, I don't this isn't live. listen I've got to protect your career yeah I don't this isn't live I don't know we'll let this out tell us about Elon Musk's connection with the tournament

and then you can so everybody on X the everything app has been seeing that if you win the top prize and Elon Musk's bracket contest you get to go to Mars I'm great you get to go to Mars. Oh, great. You get to go to Mars. And so on my show, Pablo Torre finds out. We interviewed a NASA scientist who works at a department, not coincidentally, that is currently pretty fraught by layoffs and various other underpinings of language around climate and otherwise.

And she points out that maybe it's not the best idea for the party that is simultaneously very afraid of, I don't know, Haiti, the New York City subway system. Maybe that party also should not be advocating that we invest in a planet that literally cannot support life. Yeah. Are we still talking about the internet? Just saying maybe that would be a problem. Okay, there you go.

You know, I think we're just going to leave it there. William Faulkner sitting cross- on the floor stoned MSNBC contribute. Thank you number one overall. I think we need a palate cleanser here so why don't we talk about another. I liked it in Houston and I like you Pablo thank you so much got to catch my okay, I tell about Houston. How far can they go? Well, first of all, I'm a little concerned about Pablo getting held up by TSA because he's clearly unstable

picking Alabama State over Auburn. Oh, boy. Don't ask about it. OK. Sorry, Jake. Go ahead. Go ahead, Jake. Well, Houston is, they lead the nation every year

in plain art under Kelvin Sampson. They are spectacular on the defensive end. They trap ball screens. They trap along the post. They call it monster. When they're going to trap, they call it monster. But they're they're better offensively this year. LJ Cryer and Emmanuel Sharpe are great shooters.

They shoot 40 percent from three. They're not the fastest tempo team, but over the last several years they've been among the winningest teams in college basketball. I think they would have gone to the final four last year had Jamal Shedd, their leader and their point guard, not been injured in the first half against Duke. I think they would have ultimately won that game and gone to the final four. But this year their final four good. They have a difficult draw. They could wind up playing, I think, in Zag in the second round, which is certainly not easy because Gonzaga can really score. And this is in the eight nine game. That's not a that's not an opponent

you want to see. But but Houston's legit. They have the they have the goods to win and to reach a final four and perhaps win the national championship. I would just favor teams like Duke and Auburn and Florida over Houston, but it's not by much. So Jay, we've got five or so hours until these games start. A lot of people last minute filling out the brackets. We've talked about the big boys.

What are the handful of teams you're looking at who could be those dark horses, those Cinderella's who they would not win the national championship to get out to the Sweet 16? Well, if you're looking for yes, we 16 teams. I mean, certainly the top four seeds are capable of that and favorite to do that. But there are a few teams outside that like Colorado

State has a really good draw. They play Memphis in the first round. They've got a great player named Neek Clifford, who averages about 19 points, 10 rebounds a game. They're actually favored in that game against Memphis. And that bracket actually is pretty, that subregion is pretty favorable for Colorado State. Utah State has, I think, a very good chance to beat UCLA.

They can shoot it. They're shoot it. They're very talented, and they've got a number of players that played on lower levels that are very hungry. Yale last year beat Auburn in the first round, and they've got Texas A&M this year. They've got a shooter named John Pulikitis. I can't wait for Charles Barkley to have to pronounce that on the air. But Pulikitis had 28 last year against Auburn.

He had 23 against Purdue earlier this year. And Yale is really good. The trendy pick this year is UC San Diego in their first year of eligibility for the tournament. They are going against Michigan. And so a lot of people are picking them because they can force a lot of turnovers. And they're a very good team. They've got a kid named Hayden Gray. He went to Azusa Pacific, transferred in.

He leads the nation in steals. So they do force a lot of turnovers. And they've got their leading scorer, best player, is named Niwa Niwa Tate Jones. And Charles Barkley and Shaq are going to have a great time with that one. So Jay, lastly and briefly, everyone knows Cooper Flagg, likely the first overall pick in this year's NBA draft. Give us another player or two that we should be watching for this weekend, the next couple of weeks, who will also be called on stage in the draft in a few months from now. Well, Walter Clayton Jr. at Florida is an outstanding player. I mean, he's just a bucket getter. And oddly enough, he played at Iona.

He's from Florida. And he was a football player in high school, recruited by a bunch of big time football schools. Wound up at Iona playing for Rick Pitino. And they're in the same bracket. So they could wind up in the elite eight playing against one another. Auburn has Jani Broom who along with Cooper flag of Duke is the favorite for national player

of the year and has been spectacular. And Joe certainly knows Mark Sears at Alabama, the lefty who's basically the Jaylen Brunson of college basketball right now and just an outstanding player. Michigan State is a dangerous team. They're not as good a shooting team as Tom Izzo's had, but they get to the free throw line, they really guard. And Jace Richardson, left-hander, is their top scorer over the last 10, 12 games. He's Jason Richardson's son, and really dynamic guard.

And Tom Izzo's done a great job with this team. I didn't think they were gonna be this good at the Beamer year. I saw them quite a bit and And they've they've matured into a deep Really good basketball team. They're not as dynamic as they've been in past years and as Starts studded right but but they're legit. Let's go around really quickly Pablo thinks st. St. John's is gonna win it all. Who do you think Mike? I am hopelessly in the side of Catholic schools. I got Gonzaga doing it. Gonzaga? Okay. The whole thing? That's an eight seed. I'm going to take peaking at the

end here. I'm going to go with Florida to win it. If Cooper flags, Ankle is healthy, Duke. Yeah, the same. I've got to say Florida. I think Florida could I think Florida can do it make out this all go with Pablo. Never never go. You know what that ends up bad every time like that about the state I guess she likes Alabama state, you know I actually I think Duke's probably going to win it, but I'm going to pick Florida. Jay what do you think your pet Florida. Jay, what do you think? You're picked? I've got Florida.

I've got Florida, Joe. Oh, you got Florida, too? Yeah, they're ridiculously good. But you know how this goes. It's a one and out tournament. Anybody can get clipped. But if this were a seven game series, I would take Florida to a heartbeat.

I will say Duke looks great. Florida looks great. Auburn looks great. At times, all of them look unbeatable which means they're all going to lose. Which is why we love March so much guy thank you so much. Yeah, we can talk to you all day. Yeah that and what we're about to talk about college basketball and as for ESPN and

ESPN insiders the great Jill J bill is who can go deep on any team in the. And you just for you know Jason practicing law, I know. Yeah, thanks Jay we're going to speak with Renaissance man Mika he's a winner sides, man, yes.