Morning Joe - Morning Joe 3/30/23

Episode Date: March 30, 2023

Most GOP voters don't think criminal charges should disqualify Trump from running

The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past, Ray. It reminds us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh, people will come, Ray. People will most definitely come. Willie. Good morning. Good to see you. That line.

Welcome to Morning Joe. Oh, that was good. It is Thursday, March 30th. Oh, they can be good once again. So many lines. Opening day. It's opening day. Yes, very exciting, huh? Best part about opening day is no matter who you are, any team, there's hope.

Right now, sitting here this morning, there's hope. Now, hey, it'll evaporate. It'll evaporate for some of you by 15 minutes into the game. But right now, this is the moment, opening day, everybody's got a chance. But look at, we've got the teams here. Jonathan, Willie, Joe, and me. Yeah. The circus.

Oh, yeah. The circus team. Oh, I see. I see what you're doing. I'm trying to contribute, guys. Does that work? You're doing a great job. Thank you.

And you come in. In New York, it feels like baseball weather. It's about 23 degrees. It's chilly. It's going to be 13 up in Boston. Some snow flurries. Some blizzard. Oh, and Catty's here.

Hello, Catty. How are you doing? Catty loves baseball. Loves when we talk baseball. I'm feeling left out. I want to be around the table with you guys. I know. What are you doing? Cady loves baseball. I'm feeling left out. I want to be around the table with you guys. I know. What are you doing? Team Cady.

No doubt about it. There is hope. Unless you're a child of Donald Trump and you want to inherit some money.

Do you see this, Willie? I haven't seen it, but I've heard about it. It's really one of the best things. I guess they're not getting a lot in like years. I don't know. Maybe they won't work on the campaign. But, you know, it's so funny. These are the type of videos I always think of. Like when when when people who hate Biden go, oh, he's he's losing his mind.

And then you see this and go, no, I stutters. And, yeah, sometimes he falls off a bike. But this is just pure, unadulterated, crazy. Now, allow me just to say one thing about that. Yeah. His campaign in the context of kind of making him appear to be a more traditional, normal candidate, has been putting out policy videos on the Trump 2024 website. Oh, we have that, yeah. And so this is a, like, two-camera, ostensibly scripted policy statement on farmers.

Sometimes he just wanders off into right field and is looking around. He's like, what's my name? And he's saying, I don't like my kids here. Look at this here. This is supposed to be lining them up for farm voters in Iowa. He's got this big Iowa push. He lost it before. He's talked about ethanol.

So he's going to talk about when he got all this money for farmers and then he wanders off into left field and starts like taunting his children. Take a look. And I made farmers happy and rich again, and they're doing a fantastic job. And you know what? Someday, it'll become time for them to leave this beautiful Earth, and they'll be able to leave their farm without taxes to their children. I got rid of the death tax on farms so that when you do pass away, on the assumption that you love your children,

you can leave it to them, and they won't have to pay tax. But if you don't love your children, you can leave it to them and they won't have to pay tax. But if you don't love your children so much, and there are some people that don't, and maybe deservedly so, it won't matter because, frankly, you don't have to leave them anything. Thank you very much. Have fun. Have fun.

Yeah, I saw you on it! And if you don't love your children, some of them deservedly so, fun. I saw you on Twitch. And if you don't love your children, some of them deservedly so. You don't have to leave them anything. Thank you very much. Have fun. Have fun is the key. That was a teleprompter.

What? Somebody punched that up. Somebody's obviously concerned about his kids not working on the campaign. Someone's cut off. of you but if you don't happen to love your children just that concept has a presidential candidate ever said but if you don't love your children here's how you can screw them well and by the way you might not love them for good reason and this is the, when he starts doing this, like, you know, evangelicals and everybody else.

So he's Jesus's only son. He's Jesus's representative on Earth. He's that you just sit and watch all this crazy stuff and all this hating stuff. And you just say, come on, this is the best you've got. Jen, have you ever seen anything like that and this isn't like a oh he's a disruptor this is like he's out of his mind well yeah and you know what and but you know what uh i saw last night a poll from fox news for him 50 at 54 percent of the republican right right so up up from last month from 43%. Okay, so he has jumped 12 points.

He was up, last month he was up 15 points over DeSantis. Now he is up 30 points over DeSantis. Well, you know why? I mean, because he's being Michael, because DeSantis might as well move to Massachusetts by Michael Dukakis' lawnmower and mow the lawn while he's getting crushed every day. I mean, what what did Dukakis learn in 88? If you don't respond to attacks like you

start sinking in the polls and people I know are too old for that. People too too young for that reference. But, you know, Bush kept attacking Dukakis and Dukakis. I'm just up here taking care of my lawn. And he had his little push lawnmower. And, you know, he turns around and he loses like a 25 point lead. And DeSantis doing nothing while Trump's doing this. Ron DeSanctimonious is being crushed in the polls, all of them. Many globalists are having second thoughts. RINOs like Karl Rove, Pauline Ryan, and Jeb, low-energy Bush, are beside themselves.

They don't know what's going on. They've rarely witnessed a cratering of this magnitude. These polls are going down rapidly. Maybe they should have told Ron that trying to destroy Social Security and Medicare and having voted to destroy them three times is not a good thing to do. Also, his record on China virus crime and education is, despite his ever spinning PR machine, absolutely abysmal. Thank you.

TJ, if there's a side sort of a cutaway shot of me, that makes me look that crazy. You can just please stay off of that one. We call it the neck fat. I'm so stuck on it. If you don't love your kids and sometimes deservedly. So, I mean, it's what they wanted us to see. They edited that and they put it out. Right.

Like that is what he wanted us to see. I know that and they put it out. Right. Like, that is what he wanted us to see. I know. That's the edited part. That was the point. And, you know, people are around him going, he goes, how was I? Good, boys. Good. I know.

Who are these people? Poor Tiffany. I know we like to play this. First of all, like, this is just the thing of, I mean, if I'm Ivanka, Tiffany. No, no, no. They're cut out. No, no. Talk about this. Cut of all, like this, just the thing of, I mean, if I'm, if I'm a vodka, Tiffany, That's new. That might have been an ad lib. That could have been an ad lib. But Jen's right. We can laugh around the table. And that was laughable. They're all laughable. He's only getting stronger.

He's people wishing him away. He's not going away. He's not going away. He got indicted four times and he's not going away. His support in the Republican Party is so strong. Ron DeSantis, as we've been saying for a long time, is an idea. He's the alternative, the potential alternative for some people who hope and wish that Trump would go away. He's not even a candidate yet.

It's Donald Trump's to lose. And there's nothing that we see in any data or anything we know about the party or Donald Trump that says it's going to change. Well, I like it when your voice slipped into Trump right there a second ago. He's only getting stronger. Donald Trump only getting stronger. I didn't mean to. Just air to children. Thank you very much. Have fun. Have fun. Have fun. Have fun. Have fun hating. Have fun. The thing is, Democrats really, I just, Republicans, I just, I got to tell you what, they're like, you think that it's like it used to be where they're behind like the door doors at night.

Now they're going, oh, my God, how stupid are Republicans? How dumb are Republicans? They're going to drive this clown car over the cliff again and lose again. Should I go through the years? You know, the years you haven't won since 2016 got four hours that's like chicago cops stuff right there you haven't won since 2016 yeah and to the point to jen's uh mentioned the poll trump has doubled his lead into sanis over the last month it is doubled what you're gonna show yeah i think we're gonna show Let's show this poll where Americans just

don't care. Well, I mean, Republicans don't care if he's indicted. Should it disqualify him for running for president? 57% say yes. Only 23% in the Republican party.

And 75% of Republicans say it shouldn't disqualify him for running in Congress. 75% say this. Three out of four. They're going to... You know, I just... I used to be a Republican. I don't know if you guys knew that. Is that right? Yeah. I used to run for Congress. When was that?

And when literally, I told the story before, Mika loves this story. It's very fulfilling about my dad. We were driving around in my first reelect. I had 73% of the vote and I was sitting in the front seat. We were picking up yard signs and I thought my dad was going to be proud. Who the hell are those 27%? Joey, you got to go after them. What in the hell is going on? So people want to know why I'm crazy because Because that's how all Republicans used to be. We used to despise losing, hate it.

And now they're just a bunch of losers. They want to lose. Yeah, it's hard to see. As stronger as Trump is getting in the primary, he's going to be that much weaker in the general election. Like, what voter voted for him in 16, broke away from him in 20, and now says to themselves, you know what, 2024, now's the time. I like what Trump's done these last four years. That farmer's video really got me. I'm for him right now. And that's what the Democrats are looking at too. And they understand there are some perhaps enthusiasm issues coming with President Biden, but they look at this potential

rematch, this matchup, and they go, well, people are going to turn out those independents and swing voters as well as Democrats coming out to turn out to vote against. What did we learn in the midterm elections? What we learned in the midterm elections, Jen, is that Joe Biden's low poll numbers and Republicans don't have to believe this if you don't want to. I don't care. I want you to keep losing as long as you act like fascist. Joe Biden's low poll numbers, they're false positives. His numbers are low because people think he's old. They think he's too old to be president. They love his policies.

They think maybe he doesn't have the energy. They want somebody younger, somebody more vital. When push comes to shove, and one of my kids told me this the other day. She said, you know, you can start having conversations now with friends that we disagree with. She said it's the weirdest thing. Like nobody likes Joe Biden, yet everybody understands it because Joe Biden, the temperature's gone down like 30 degrees. I said, that's the best thing I have heard all week. And it's true. So maybe, maybe people are like, oh, he's too old. I have heard all week. And it's true. So maybe people are like, oh, he's too old. But at the end of the day, they're false positives. We found that out in the midterm elections.

And Republicans, again, running the clown car off the cliff. They're just going to lose again to Biden. I mean, people, the public proved in 20, they proved in 22, they understand what's at stake. They understand there's, they understand that democracy is on the line. They understand the big issues that are on the line and they will, they're going to turn out, you know, they turn down big droves to vote against him in 20. They turned down big droves to go to vote against election deniers in 22. And, you know, I don't know where the strategists are. Big picture for the Republican Party.

But here's a,'s a go ahead. Let's make one small amendment to that. Yeah. If I'm if I'm Joe Biden's team. Right. I'm not psyched about a large number of people in the country worried about who don't like the idea of a president in his 80s. And I'm really worried that the Republicans will get their act together and put forward something that's not Donald Trump. Yeah, but they're not. But that's my thing. It's like, this is what makes it even crazier for the Republican Party.

Because if there were actually somebody in charge of the Republican Party, you'd be sitting there going, this guy, whatever people think about his policies, they don't like the idea of a guy in his 80s as president. If we just put somebody up who's a normal candidate, we have a decent shot here. When somebody keeps losing, I always say, what do you want to do? You want to turn things around? Yeah, I go, you got to change the dynamic. What's the dynamic you have to change so the game changes, so your business changes? Change the dynamic. Republicans, they're not doing it. And as long as you don't change that dynamic, if you've lost in 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, you're going to lose in 24. But they're not because if it's Ron DeSantis versus Joe Biden, we all have our problems with Ron DeSantis. You've just changed the dynamic. And the Biden team has a reason to be very worried. If it's Trump, Biden, go to France for a mind.

He's lost his mind. He's given you, he now is fighting his own children. He said he wanted to terminate the Constitution. Go to the South of France. They'll still win. And what did you really learn in 2022, which is that the country doesn't like election denial. They don't like that insurrection.

They didn't like what happened on Capitol Hill January 6th. And who's the guy the Republicans are rallying behind? The guy who's up on stage with the January 6th convict choir. The convict choir. Talk about not changing the dynamic. The convict choir. Talk about sticking your hand in a wood chipper over and over again. It's like, what are you doing?

It's just really, it's unbelievable. They got the convict choir. Donald Trump says he wants to terminate the Constitution. Yes. And look at the numbers. he wants to terminate the Constitution. Yes. Yes. And look at the numbers. He wants to terminate the Constitution. And Mika, there's a new piece in the St. Louis Dispatch. So this is sort of backing up the point here in a different way. Columnist Lynn Schmidt says it's too late to challenge Trump and his control of the party and base. Trump has enough voters. He has control of the state parties.

He has a significant influence over the national party. And his opponents have done too little to distinguish themselves from Trump, let alone explain why he shouldn't be president again. The resentments that Trump voters feel haven't changed over the last seven years. And they and to think they have is foolish. My neighbor just replaced his somewhat tattered Trump flag with a brand new one, which incidentally. Fly it high, Fran. Fly it high. Biden 2024. He, like other Republican base voters, still loves Trump.

The time for wishing Trump out of the national picture is long gone. They've this is me now. They've missed their window. I mean, the window is unfortunately now and these crazy moments. Yeah, I don't know if he's missed his window. The question is, can he go toe to toe with Donald Trump? But I think the answer we've seen is no. It just doesn't seem like the Republicans have missed their window. I think is spot on. It's something we've been saying around here for a long time. Let's see who else gets in. Let's see if somebody will take him on directly. Ron DeSantis is probably the best guy to do that. But again, there's just nothing in the data.

There's nothing we know about the modern Republican Party. There's nothing we know about Donald Trump for the last eight years or whatever it's been that says the dynamic is going to change. If he can lead a coup, an attempted coup against the United States government and get away with it and still have 75 percent of the party say, I don't think they should do anything about it. Even if he's charged with something, he should still run for president. If that doesn't matter to them, what's going to change the dynamic? If staging an attempted coup against the government, an attack on the Capitol doesn't change the way people feel about him within the Republican Party, I don't think Nikki Haley or even Ron to say this is going to. I mean, early, early polls, early polls right now. And this is, it's March, still March. It's like super early polls, but it's polls for the last eight years

that have had, you know, it's not polls from a, but it's polls for the last eight years that have had, you know, it's not polls from a new batch of presidential candidates that the voters have never seen before. He's led in presidential primaries for eight years. And that, you know, it just doesn't, you know, I saw the Post had a story you talked about and I'm way too early about, I think that's probably Republicans within D.C. getting nervous about Trump and looking around at alternatives. And Scott Reid, who ran Bob Dole's campaign, is in that piece. And he's like, you know, around the fall, people start getting nervous in Iowa. And a couple of people will get a look, you know, maybe Nikki Haley will get a look or Chris Christie if he

gets in or the vest is. You know, we love sports analogies here. And I am loathe to compare Donald Trump to anybody favorably. But this is Mike Tyson when he's heavyweight champion. As far as the Republican Party goes, you had Tyson and everybody else. Maybe Buster Douglas lands a punch. I don't think so. And so this isn't one of these things. You don't back into a fight with Mike Tyson. And that's what all of these people are doing. They're such wimps. They have

got to go after him hard. They've got to smother him in the center of the ring. They have to be relentless. They have to do what we're doing here. And going, dude, if you have problems with your kids, I assure you, nobody in Iowa wants to hear about it. You take that into your little fake gold plated living room with all of your trust fund babies and you do it. OK, we'd rather talk about like, oh, I don't know. The economy, you know, the price of bread, the cost of prescription, whatever it is. It's not that hard. Donald, you can. Nobody can do it. You can be the candidate for all the Republican voters who don't love their children.

I, on the other hand, will be the candidate for voters in the Republican Party who love their children. Right. Let's put let's just stack that policy. I think they think they can say things like, I don't kick sideways. Instead of, that's wrong. I'm trying to figure that out. I don't. It's an excuse not to be strong. And people want strength.

Saying things like that, getting around saying, look, a convict choir is wrong. It's sick. It is an insult to our democracy. And I would never do that. I don't even understand what's going on there. Katty, the question was asked yesterday. What would Republicans do if in Bernie Sanders' last campaign, he went around the country with a convict quiet?

In his mittens. In his mittens. And puffer. Like, what would Republicans say? Okay. Let's do it again. I'm not going to do it again, but this is my convict choir. And they're going to sing the song, and I'm going to pledge allegiance to convicts.

What would Republicans say? Yeah, I mean, I suspect that even Bernie Sanders would have gone around and said he loved his kids, right? Or that his supporters loved his kids. I don't know that even he would have gone that far, mittens or no mittens. You know, the only sort of counter argument to all of this is that there are glimmers that DeSantis has a window, an edge with some key voters, and particularly that Monmouth poll showing that he was ahead with evangelical voters. Is there a chance that come to Iowa, you know, Trump has an upset like he did in 2016? I mean, I know he accused Ted Cruz back then of stealing. I think it was stealing or fraud in Iowa. Sounds familiar, right?

But I just I think there are there are possibilities for DeSantis. He's just got to show that he has the backbone to take on Trump. And we haven't seen any of that yet. But certain evangelical voters are looking at they're not looking at Trump the same way. It doesn't look like he's going to get 80 percent with you. Already, they've got their Supreme Court that they want. They've got their judges that they want. They've had Roe overturned. So there's a window there for somebody, I think, with that section of the certainly with a Republican base to say.

You guys have been out. Do you get that sense? I love my kids. And by the way, vote for me. Good. I mean, I went to a Mike Pence event. I went to a Mike Pence event at Bob Jones University. Yeah, there you go. This is an evangelical school. Yeah.

And everyone, they loved Vice President Pence. They love hearing him testify to his faith. It would be amazing if we had a Republican nominee like that. But will you vote for Donald Trump? Absolutely. But we'll take the guy who hates his kids and wants to terminate the Constitution. Because of sanctity of life.

That's what every single person I talk to says. I ask you, Joe, as you were talking about the Mike Tyson's analogy, which is, you know, we've got to have a plan, right? And Tyson's thing, everybody's got a plan until you get hit in the face. At least DeSantis could,

Kai's right. I think there is a window. He's going to have to go to a debate stage against Donald Trump. How did Ron DeSantis do against Chris Christie? Against Charlie Crist? Against Charlie Crist. Charlie Crist made him look foolish. And Andrew Gillum.

And Andrew Gillum. I know. No, that's why I've got to say, I just, DeSantis really is another Florida governor that's going to get crushed by Donald Trump. You know, if DeSantis runs against Trump, Jonathan O'Meara, his best shot. And I mean this. He's got to bow out of all the debates. He's got to say, I don't need to debate that guy. That guy's crazy. I don't want to hear about him hating his kids. No, I'm just saying he can't take him on one-on-one on the debate. He just can't.

So do what Republicans are talking about doing in the general election. Don't do debates. That's his only shot. Yeah, I mean, the Republican apparatus does seem, at least part of the establishment, wanting to rally around DeSantis. We know that his super PACs hired some top name, big name operatives. There's going to be some fundraising that's going to come. They're making optimistic noises about, but he's not in.

He's not going to get in. And the danger here is if you remain silent like this, you let your opponent define the race. And the opponent is Donald Trump, who is defining the race by bludgeoning him each and every day. Oh my God, though. Alex Corson. Yeah.

Just gave me the name that is the future. You ghost your opponent. You become the Katie Hobbs of the Republican Party. I'm going to go home and sit in

my living room. That's not what she did. And watch reruns of Sopranos. That's not what she did. No, she did. She did avenge, but she did not do debates. Let's not what she did. And watch reruns of Sopranos. That's not what she did. No, she did! She did avenge, but she did not do debates. Let's not rewrite history. I'm not. I'm just, I'm bringing some... She's the governor. She is the governor. It works. I doubted her strategy.

And we doubted her. By the way, everybody doubted her strategy. Democrats. And by the way, you're like, Katie Hatt. Only repeating what every Democrat in Arizona told me, what every journalist told me. It seemed also to make sense. I look forward to the day when the DeSantis campaign announces that it's following the Katie Hobbs strategy to take down Donald Trump. I'm looking forward to that moment when the background reporters, you know, they work for Katie Hobbs against Carrie Lake.

So that's how we're going to do it against Trump. It's kind of coming after Trump. It's a good idea. I like them. All right. Let's we'll get back to politics in just a moment. We've got breaking news out of Russia to get to. The Russian news agency Interfax is reporting that a Wall Street Journal reporter has been detained on spying charges, according to Russia's Federal Security Service. Evan

Gershkovich, a reporter covering Russia, Ukraine and the former Soviet Union, is, quote, suspected of espionage in the interests of the American government. Interfax notes that Gershkovich, a U.S. citizen, faces up to 20 years in prison. The Wall Street Journal released a statement that vehemently denies the allegations from the FSB and seeks the immediate release of our trusted and dedicated reporter. Jonathan, here here's Vladimir Putin acting like a thug again. Russia acting like a country again that never wants to be back into the world community. This war is going to come to an end at some point.

And and him doing this, he might as well be Iran. Yeah, he's just a thug. It's a criminal regime. And if he thinks that this is going to help in any way, he's badly misreading the West. This reporter's most recent byline was about the decaying state of the Russian economy, obviously angered some people within the Kremlin. He's now detained. We have not yet heard from the White House, the American government about this, but surely we will soon, as you just read, the Wall Street Journal condemning this. But it is true. And first of all, it underscores the dangers the reporters are going through reporting, whether it's in Ukraine or in this case in Russia, knowing as Russia cracks down

on free speech, cracks down on any dissident thought. And now this reporter is being detained, an American citizen being detained. And to your point, Joe, it just it shows that Putin is has is severing connections with the rest of the world, that he knows there'll be consequences here. But he's willing to make that calculation, perhaps even for a trade. We don't know yet if he's going to try to barter something with this reporter or not. That's been some early speculation. But it's dangerous. We've got to trade some F-16s. Here's a tell you what, we're going to give Ukraine 10 F-16s. Here's a... Tell you what, we're going to give Ukraine 10 F-16s. Here's a test. Or we'll give them 20.

Yeah. Give them back to us, or we'll give them 20. I mean, this is... Would you like to join in the conversation? Well, I'm just thinking that's a test for Republicans going forward, wouldn't you say? Because I was trying to complete it. That's okay. Go ahead.

No, I thought you were... Please, I didn't mean to cut you off. It's a breakfast table. It's what we do. Jump in, baby. I saw Mika was thinking the same thing I No, I thought you were right. Please, I didn't mean to cut you off. It's a breakfast table. That's what we do. Jump in, baby. I saw Mika was thinking the same thing I was. I did this. Here's a test for Republicans.

Now, we're all, you know, we've seen a lot of Putin love. Yeah, a lot. Not just from Donald Trump, but just as other people. Here's the test. Are Republican presidential candidates and other Republican leaders going to rally around this reporter and criticize what's happening? Do you know Vladimir Putin has a higher approval rating of the Republican Party than Joe Biden? I'm sick.

I did not know that, but I'm not surprised. He does. I mean, scary. That's a big test right now for the Republican Party. OK. Kidnapping journalists, killing civilians in Ukraine, and he's got a higher approval rating. Just horrendous.

Yeah, in the party. We've got some breaking news out of Kentucky this morning. Several casualties being reported after two U.S. Army Black Hawk helicopters crashed during a training incident. It happened last night near the Army base Fort Campbell. The extent of the injuries or the number of the people involved not yet released.

However, Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear said fatalities are expected. In a tweet, the Army's 101st Airborne Division wrote it is focusing on, quote, the soldiers and their families who were involved. We'll bring you more details. Absolutely. On both those stories. A lot of breaking news. All right.

Still ahead on Morning Joe. We're following the very latest on the investigation into this week's mass shooting at a school in Nashville. We'll have that and a look at where the fight over gun safety stands on Capitol Hill. Plus, the CEO of Starbucks and Senator Bernie Sanders face off over allegations of illegal union busting tactics. Also this morning, bipartisan opposition to banning TikTok is emerging on Capitol Hill. We'll have the latest on the fight over that popular app. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back.

And I made farmers happy and rich again. And they're doing a fantastic job. And you know what? Someday it'll become time for them to leave this beautiful earth and they'll be able to leave their farm without taxes to their children. I got rid of the death tax on farms so that when you do pass away on the assumption that you love your children, you can leave it to them and they won't have to pay tax. But if you don't love your children so much,

and there are some people that don't, and maybe deservedly so, it won't matter because, frankly, you don't have to leave them anything. Thank you very much. Have fun. Mike Pence has not announced he's running for president yet, but he was chatting it up with voters in Iowa today, where I'd like you to pay special attention to the man in the background to his right, who seemed more interested in his breakfast than in the former vice president. Wonderful to be with you. I appreciate you all coming out.

I'm looking forward to hearing what might be on your mind. President Joe Biden is weak in the morning before he can go to bed. Another, literally you can trace back to one of my unworthy son-in-laws. He's a lieutenant in the United States Navy. And my life has changed a lot since the last time most of us were together. And the young pastor earnestly said to him, well, what do you think we ought to do? And the farmer said, he said, Reverend. But the first time little Avery Grace looked up at me, stretched her arms out,

started a little church in rural Indiana. About what she could say that. And then, of course, the runaway. The Bible got out his notes. Forty-five minutes later, he made the strongest military in the history of the world. And I've told him things he didn't want to hear. Anybody that thinks that Vladimir Putin will stop if he takes your client has, as we say back in Indiana, another thing coming. Secured our border.

They sent Roe v. Wade to the ash heap in virtually every city. If anybody asks a question, it was the greatest honor of my life. Thank you, Iowa. There you go. Holy cow. That was amazing. Several courses. Trying to stay awake.

With a nap in the middle. I was going to say, that was Joey Chestnut in Iowa. Except it was eggs and not hot dogs. It looked good. It looked yummy. It was a play in three acts. He ate. He had the food coma.

Laid his head against the wall. And then pulled himself off the mat. Couldn't they zoom in? He came back and went for the third round. I don't know. The Mike, we talked about Tyson. The Mike Tyson of eating. I think they could have zoomed in.

The ref tried to count him out. He was saved by the bell. Came back for round three. He finished the fight. He won on points. Okay. The circus was there. So I'm sure our cameras zeroed in on that.

I'd like to see that on the circus. All right. We have there is more evidence that Fox News new claims of election fraud were false, but continued to air the misinformation anyway. A judge just ordered previously redacted slides presented by Dominion's lawyers to be made public. The voting machine company is suing the network for defamation, claiming that it was severely damaged by claims put forward by Fox News hosts and guests. The slides show internal communications and testimony at Fox, including messages from the Fox brain room, which was responsible for fact checking at the network. One communication from the brain room 10 days after the 2020 election says claims about Dominion switching or deleting votes were 100 percent false. Wow. Another message reads the facts.

There is no evidence of widespread fraud in the 2020 election. Another important revelation comes from Fox News CEO Suzanne Scott. It's an email she sent to another Fox executive complaining about a reporter fact checking claims from then President Trump. It was a massive dump of votes. Mostly Biden, almost all Biden. And to this day, everyone's trying to figure out where did it come from? We just heard the president say it. He brands it a massive dump of votes. But election officials say it is not what he implies. They say there's no nefarious big batch for Biden, just votes they insist that are being counted properly as the law requires. Now, after that aired, Scott wrote, this has to stop now. This is bad business. The audience is

furious. Bad for business. A Fox News spokesperson said that Scott was not opposing fact checking itself. This is not about fact checking. The issue at hand is one host calling out another, the spokesperson said. There's also an exchange between the staff of a Fox News primetime show about MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell, who is still pushing election conspiracy theories to this day. They justify having him on the show because he's a major advertiser on the network. Quote, I know there is a concern about him being a conspiracy theorist now, but he has bailed us out loads of times when no one else would. And he's also been moving to newsbacks lately. Might be a good business move to signal that we wouldn't desert him. Then another staff member writes, he is crazy and about to get sued by Dominion.

WTF is going, WTF, is he going to say on our air? Fox also released a statement about the slides, quote, these documents once again demonstrate Dominion's continued reliance on cherry-picked quotes without context to generate headlines in order to distract from the facts of this case. It goes on to say the network will continue to fiercely advocate for the First Amendment in protecting the role of news organizations to cover the news. And just to underline one thing, there also are Fox News hosts who called for the firing of people who told the truth on the air. So that wasn't just limited

to the Suzanne Scott instance there. But, Katty K., you've seen this in Britain, News Corp being sued for a variety of reasons. And in this case, it looks like the judge is having none of none of the protests about having Rupert Murdoch protest saying he's talking about flying around on his honeymoon. He can fly from New York to Delaware, Wilmington, Delaware. So in the case in London, did you have Murdoch and all these other big news TV hosts coming on and testifying on the stand?

No, I mean, look, there is a different standard here in the UK. And this is, I think, what is worrying people inside News Corp reportedly, is that what's called the fit and proper requirement to be a media organisation owner in the UK could impact Rupert Murdoch's businesses here. We've already seen that happen. It was back in 2013 because of libel suits here and legal suits around phone tapping. That was what split off Fox News from News Corp originally to try and protect Fox. But here it's the question, is Murdoch going to be, if he's done by the Dominion suits,

if he's found, if Fox is found culpable over their reporting on 2020 and there is, you know, a big charges and fines against them, would that then impact Murdoch in the UK, who owns Talk TV, which is the show that hosts Piers Morgan's show? And that could then have a wider impact, I think, on his businesses around the world. And that's what's worrying people inside News Corp at the moment. Jen, you know, we always sit and say, how do how do Trump supporters get around all the facts that they're presented with every day. People say, well, they just watch one network or another network. They still get the facts. They still not. And by the way, I don't really think they believe most of. In fact, I know they don't. They're just they're just reading news that that makes them feel good.

So in in this case, though, I'm just curious, how do they process same thing off the air about Donald Trump that liberal Democrats say off the air about Donald Trump, that they worry every day when he's president of the United States, that the country may not survive, that he's detestable, like all of them talking trash about Donald Trump. I mean, I'm just curious, is that breaking through with Fox News viewers or they just ignoring those two? Or do they think that they're lies, that all of these hosts never said that? So I've talked to I've talked to Trump supporters about, you know, about these specific set of questions. And most people I talk to, when you say, are you aware of the Dominion lawsuit?

They're like, oh, Dominion. You know, they think it's about, they don't think it's about Dominion suing Fox. They think it's something having to do with Dominion being responsible for the algorithm that robbed Donald Trump of millions of votes. Some people are familiar with the text messages. A couple of people I talked to were like, yeah, it's disappointing. But, you know, they believe what they want to believe. And they look for the they look for the facts that they can, like, hold on to that make everything OK. You know, the ecosystem that Donald Trump builds so that they can believe what they want, what they're inclined to believe. Anyway, the only time, the only people I talked to who said they would no longer watch Fox

with anything to do with the election was because they had called the election. For Arizona. Right. Arizona. That is why it is for Fox telling them the truth is that they will no longer watch Fox. And this, Jonathan, this is this is legally this is a big challenge again and i don't really it's very complicated no no way to tell how this is going to turn out uh but as far as the fact pattern that would be more troubling for fox is

the fact that i've never seen a network lose as many viewers as quickly as Fox did to Newsmax. And I guess OAN got some as well after that Arizona call that you're talking about. So put into context all of these panicked calls to stop telling viewers the truth, to stop fact checking. That came with a backdrop of them bleeding all of these it would have been far different if if their numbers had stayed different but it's very clear you look at the fact pattern they were responding to i what i remember calling phil griffin saying phil i've never seen anything like this this is the greatest shift because everybody's like we're gonna hire so-and-so and our ratings are gonna go up in cable news no it's like a wave it starts like in the indian ocean and it creeps

up cable news is it is a years-long endeavor right so you don't gain audiences fast you don't lose audiences fast um but, more than anybody had seen, lost all those viewers, like you said, after the Arizona call. So all of these texts, all of this stuff comes with that backdrop. So they had a reason to behave maliciously, is what Dominion will say. Yeah, why do their viewers viewership? Yeah, viewership. I'm going to be polite.

Yeah, the viewership collapsed after the election, after that Arizona call. They were the first to do it. We know that the White House, Jared Kushner, others called angrily trying to reach Rupert Murdoch to reverse it that night. They didn't. But it took them a while to repair that viewership, in part because there was this residual anger. So they don't want to touch that again, it would appear. And I think we have now seen this interesting walk going forward where they have slowly started after sort of putting Trump to the side and giving DeSantis a lot of favorable

news coverage. They have slowly started to re-embrace Trump. He sat down with Sean Hannity the night of his first Fox interview in months. The Dominion lawsuit is real. There are people over there that I've talked to who are nervous about it. But it also is going to shake the politics going forward, because let's recall, if you're the President Biden and the Democrats, do you deal with this network right now after you know they willingly lied? They willingly lied about the election and leaked advertising data,

campaign ad strategy to the Trump campaign. You know, you deal with you deal with everybody. You just do. I know people don't don't like but pete budaj going on fox news actually has an impact with fox news viewers i hear it i i mean nobody's ever going to vote for him that watches but it does have an impact but but you're right though um i mean they had a reason and yeah and it's it's going to be difficult the real-time correspondent is pretty compelling because it really was like they saw the viewers fleeing. They're like, we're freaking out there. And they had a host. They had hosts actually saying, we've got to reverse the call.

And it's the Arizona call on election night. And then, you know, they were right with all the other networks in declaring Biden president, you know, Saturday, a few days later. Right there, you know, alongside everybody else. You know, let me stop you. They had the call first, and they refused. They had actually built the most advanced, best system to project. That's how they got Arizona right. It's the brain room. They had the when called, and they refused to call it because they didn't want to make

people angry. They didn't want to be first again, which has never been their pattern of practice. I think the interesting question around this case that everybody keeps asking is, why has Fox not settled it? Clearly, it would be in their interest. Murdoch would pay a lot of money to not have these texts come out. Will we see the lawsuit actually eventually get to court? The judge is not going to do a summary judgment.

We are going to have a court date in April. And I think the interesting suggestion of people who have seen these cases a long time is that the fact that we got to the place where all this discovery became public suggests that probably Fox News tried to have the settlement discussions with Dominion already. Dominion has already said, we're not interested in settling. We want to have our name cleared in a public court. We're not going to take your $1.6 billion. That's not probably what they offered. But the settlement negotiations have already failed. And that we're already in a place where there's not a way for Fox News to settle this case if they want to. And that would be an incredible spectacle. Rupert Murdoch,

all of these primetime hosts paraded through court, asked about these emails and text messages. Amazing thing for Fox News to have. You know, Tucker Carlson, when you wrote that you hated Donald Trump, what exactly did you mean? Well, there's always a number that people will take. Maybe Fox didn't go high enough. Well, there was a number that might have been from Fox News in the process. I mean, look, how much would you pay?

I don't know. Yeah. Well, it's worth an awful lot to stop that spectacle. It's $6 billion. All right. Coming up, for the first time since 1968, all 30 Major League Baseball teams will play their first games of the season on the same day. You don't like really reading stories about baseball, do you?

What I was saying, hi, Theo Epstein. I was just trying not to get it wrong, because then you all would look at me, because this is important to you all. We're going to talk opening day with MLB consultant Theo Epstein, the former Cubs and Red Sox executive joins us straight ahead on

Morning Joe. And the wind of the young girls are glory days Glory days Back to full. Red Sox fans have longed to hear it. The Boston Red Sox are world champions. Here's the 0-1. This is going to be a tough play. Bryant, the Cubs win the World Series. Bryant makes the play. It's over. Thank you, Greg. You know, it's the funniest thing, Lemire. I seriously, and I mean this, I don't remember a single pitch from the 2004 World Series. I had to see the Drew Barrymore movie.

To remember, fever pitch with Jimmy Fallon. To remember that. Because for me, the season ended, of course, Yankee Stadium. It ended in Yankee Stadium when johnny damon hit that grand slam and you know we all reacted differently i think barnacle teared up you know i just started i just started screaming at yankees yeah i was there that day in the stadium and that very last row of the upper deck my brother and i were there and we looked at each other with shock disbelief feared for our lives briefly surrounded by by Yankee fans, and just screamed.

Just screamed. Just screamed. We didn't beat you up that night? I escaped. I escaped that night. That's a huge miss by our fans. I ran track in high school, so I was going to finish away. But you're right.

The ALCS was a passion play. The World Series in some ways felt like an afterthought, but it was still so perfect what had happened. It's amazing. Let's bring around our architect of those two winning teams. At the 2007 Red Sox, Theo Epstein, after a storied career as general manager and president of baseball operations, he's now an MLB consultant. Just like Mike Barnicle is a consultant for Morning Joe. Exactly. And keeps us on the air every day. Every day. Because Joe, don't't do this today and then our sports reporter is here and then of course our sports reporter richard haas golf course golf golf correspondent

mike let me start with you uh you you you've been through a few of these uh what does what does opening day at fenway mean to you oh you know it means actually it's the start of the year we have new year's day but opening day is the real start of the year. And it's like you go back to your summer home. You have a summer house. It's in Fenway Park. It's box 29 for me. And you see people you haven't seen all winter.

And you get to watch the beginnings of the greatest game ever, ever created. Major League Baseball. Baseball specifically. It's just a wonderful game, a wonderful sport. It's wonderful being at the park, and I've looked forward to it for far too long every year. And every year, every year I say, this is the year. A lot of people saying that this year. This is the year for today.

Anyway, so Theo, a wonderful game that by our account has gotten even more wonderful because of these rules changes. I think we didn't know what to expect. How's the pitch clock going to work? Does it make sense? Is there going to be pushback on it? All of a sudden, these spring training games are 229, 237, sub-three-hour games, where in the past you'd get a four-hour

game and your kids kind of tune out or have to go to bed. You're a consultant to the MLB. Great ideas. Have they gone as well in spring training as they appear to have gone? Yeah, the reception has been better than we could have imagined. But we had an idea it was probably going to go well because we tested these rule changes extensively over 8,000 games in the minor leagues over the last couple of years. And the entire effort was an attempt to just give fans more of what they like and less of what they don't like.

So we did extensive outreach to fans for years. And what they told us was they agree with Mike and with all of us, greatest game in the world, but they want to see more action. They want to see an improved pace. They want to see the ball in play a little bit more. Their favorite plays are things like stolen bases, doubles, triples, great defensive plays. Their least favorite things are like stolen bases, doubles, triples, great defensive plays. Their least favorite things are dead time, you know, mound visits, pitching changes, things

like that. So the rules were designed to just move us a little bit closer to the very best version of baseball, giving fans more of what they like. And it's accomplished it. You know, the pitch timer doesn't change the game. It just creates and brings back this great rhythm and flow that we were all used to growing up. And even old, crusty scouts and old-school baseball people who wanted nothing to do with a timer anywhere

near the field, after watching a few games, call me and say, this is the greatest thing we've ever seen. And you know, the game that we wait for, the series we love so much, the Yankees-Red Sox, greatest series ever. Also, just the longest game. They're all over four hours.

They were nightmares. Yeah, you'd sit down and watch the Sunday nighter because that's always on ESPN. Starts at like 8. You're sitting there with your 10-year-old son. It's like 10 o'clock at night on a Sunday night and they're in the fourth inning. Not even close. What's the reception been like from the players? We know there's some old school guys who said, no, I don't like this idea. What are you hearing now after a couple of months of spring training? The players have been great. First of all,

their attitude, really open, welcoming, and collaborative about it. And for the first time ever, there's a joint competition committee, which is responsible for these rules. And there were four player representatives. And they gave a lot of feedback along the way after the test and the minor leagues helped improve the rules. And, you know, look, you're never going to please everybody. There's always going to be some critics. But overall, the reception's been incredible. The players also get home half an hour earlier.

The players don't like dead time either. They're sitting out there for a long time. And so they've been great. And we're going to continue an open dialogue with them and make sure this goes. That adds up over 162 games. That actually that adds up a lot. It's like the difference between doing a TV show for three hours a day and four hours a day. It adds up.

A lot of mountains. We're good. A lot of mound visits. We're good. A lot of mound visits. You know, the thing about the pitch clock, but I love how the pitch clock was introduced in preseason, in spring training, was the first game, like the Red Sox and the Braves. It ends with a clock off, right? And send a message to everybody.

We're not playing. You know, we don't care if it's the last out of the game or the first out of the game. We got a clock. You live by it. Are you going to lose by it? Yeah. And it does seem like players feel already sort of adjusted to it. Also, let me just say thank you again for 2004 and everything else.

Yeah. But let's talk about some of the other things that have also been put into play. Talk to us a little bit about what impact you've seen for the banning on shifts. And also a small one, but how bases have grown a little bit. Is there a sense that's going to spur more running game, more action? Yeah, absolutely. The bigger bases are designed, again, to give fans more of what they like. Stolen bases in the running game.

Stolen bases are at a generational low, only 1.3 per game attempts combined for both teams. Fans told us they wanted more of them. So I think the bigger bases are a good example of what we were trying to accomplish. Everyone knows the bases are set out on a 90-foot diamond. That's a sacred number. We didn't want to change that. But we could accomplish the same thing, tilting the scales a little bit in favor of the base runner, creating more action just by making the bases a little bit bigger. I asked all 30 major league managers how big a major league base was before we did this, and not one knew that it was 15 inches square. So we changed it to 18 inches square. It shortens the distance between

first and second by four and a half inches. And so now those bang-bang plays with the runners out at second base, now you're safe. And what we've seen is a 50% increase in spring training in stolen base attempts. Success rate's gone up from 71% to 78%. So it's just going to increase the running game and give fans more of what they like. The band of the shift is really about

putting the players in the center of the action. You asked how players are receiving the rule changes. They love the ban on the shift because it improves the in-play environment for hitters. The batting average on balls in play is up now to 320 in spring training. More balls getting through, so more action. But also, we want our players to be in the middle of the action. We don't want games to be decided by whether the front office has the perfect algorithm. So a hard hit ball goes right to the fielder standing in short right field. We want the game to be decided by whether your second baseman is quick enough, has enough

instincts, reads the play right, goes on a full sprint, dives, makes the play, gets up and throws the runner out first. The game should be, the game is about the players and it's for the fans. And so these rule changes take an aggregate, put the players in the middle of the game should be the game is about the players and for the fans. And so these rule changes take an aggregate. Yeah. Put the players in the middle of the action and give the fans more of a slide. It's two minutes past the top of the hour. And we're talking opening day with Theo Epstein, Mike Barnicle and our golf correspondent, Richard Hoffs, is here with us as well. We'll get to the news in just a moment. It's coming up soon. So just just wait a week. We'll have the questions for you. Mike, we talk about these new rule changes and, well, does it break up the tradition?

I've got to say, one of the things that really has irritated me as somebody who's been following baseball for half a century is you've got a batter that gets up, has a perfect hit. Like he hits the ball like you were taught, you know, where seven or eight or nine, hey, this is what you want to do. Hit a screamer over the shortstop. Hit a screamer over second base, right? Find the gaps. And he hits it hard, and suddenly there's a second baseman

like 30 yards out in the right field that catches the ball. And it ends up, might as well have been a lazy fly ball. That's what I love about getting rid of the shift that actually this is a more traditional move. I know Ted Williams had a shift and other, but it had just gotten outrageous. Well, Theo just put his finger on perhaps the most important aspect of the rules changes, and that's you have to have your feet on the infield for four fielders infield, say on the infield, not in the outfield grass. So for left-handed hitters specifically, it's going to make an enormous difference, I would think.

I mean, David Ortiz, the number of line drives that he hit to short right field that would have been ordinary base hits, except you have, you know, three or four players on the right side of the infield. And so he was thrown out at first base. That's going to change drastically for a lot of left-handed hitters and right-handed hitters but theo my question to you is the wiggle room in these rules and i was thinking of it the night the great night that we saw otani versus mike trout with the game on the line and the ninth inning and that pitch clock is out there and i think otani on a couple of times went over the amount of time in the pitch clock. So in situations like that, will the umpire, will the home plate umpire have a little

wiggle room to say, oh, this is pretty tense. I'm going to let it slide here. Yeah, we're going to see how it plays out. We certainly don't want to detract from the great drama and the protracted drama that really only baseball can deliver in those moments. The umpires are great game managers as well as being the arbiters of the rules. So they know when the right time is to go dust off home plate and create a little bit of extra time. And there is some wiggle room in the rules, especially for the players. It hasn't been as publicized as some of the other aspects of the rules, but each batter, for example, can call timeout once per plate appearance to gather his thoughts and get a little bit more time. The pitcher has the ability to step off the rubber twice each plate appearance

in order to just gather himself and get enough time to do his job the right way. So these rules were designed to allow the best players in the world to perform at their best in a way that makes sense to them. And the umpires are going to enforce the rules, but they also know how to manage the game and deliver a great product for the fans. Are there any rules that you didn't change that you looked at and you said, this is a bridge too far and we don't want to do this? Yeah. And our players in the minor leagues were really helpful with these experiments and helping tell us what works and what doesn't work. And we use the data as well.

We're trying to cut down on strikeouts because the strikeout rate in the big leagues now for an average pitcher is higher than Bob Gibson's career strikeout rate, for example. The ball's just not in play quite enough, and we're trying to bring that back. So we experimented in the Atlantic League with moving the mound back by a foot to give the hitter a little bit more time to react. And we were hoping that would increase the contact rate. Yeah. Speaking of sacred numbers. And it turns out it just, it didn't really work the way we wanted it to. It threw off the hitter's timing. It was sort of a bridge too far. We're going to go back and study that in a lab, but that's a good example of one that didn't make it all the way up.

So we talked about the rules. Let's talk about the players and some of the teams. Mike mentioned Shohei Otani. You know, I'm a Yankee fan. Aaron Judge deserved the MVP at the kind of offensive season we've maybe never seen before. But Shohei, I was going to say once in a generation. He's a once in a century player to be able to hit and pitch the way he has. Not since Babe Ruth.

You've been evaluating players for your entire professional life. What can you say about what this guy has done in Major League Baseball? Never seen anything like it. He's incredible. Just a phenomenon. And the way he carries himself off the field. Truly loves the game and wants to be a great representative of the game. That's all he cares about. And this guy, you wouldn't believe it if it was a Hollywood script.

He hits the ball as hard or harder than anybody else. He can pitch. His velocity is higher than anyone in the big leagues or as nasty as stuff as anyone in the big leagues. And the guy's one of the fastest runners in the big leagues. He's probably one of the fastest runners in the big leagues probably you know one of the fastest home to first times in all of baseball you couldn't make it up and it's so great for baseball we had 65 million viewers uh watching world baseball classic games when he was going up against some of the other best players in the world so yeah just great for baseball and excited to watch him play the fact that he's doing both at an elite level is just unheard of and that brings back memories of Babe Ruth. Yeah, that last strike.

Might as well have been a wiffle ball. It looked like a wiffle ball crossing the plate. No one's ever said. Come on. Yeah, nobody's ever said that. So, Mike, I also love we're going to see a lot more interleague play. And how crazy, how exciting. Can't believe I'm excited about anything to do with the New York Yankees.

But the opening game, the Yankees and the Giants, how cool is that? Not that the Yankees and the Orioles wouldn't be exciting, but the Yankees and the San Francisco Giants opening at Yankee Stadium. Wow, that's an opening day. Yeah, the Giants not far from their original home, too. I mean, there are classic franchises, and Theo has been at two of them, Chicago and, of course, the Boston Red Sox. But the Yankees, the Giants, the Los Angeles Dodgers, St. Louis Cardinals, classic, classic franchises. And it's wonderful to see this game back. It's wonderful that these rules have actually given the game back to the fans before it goes back to the players.

The fans are going to be the ones who appreciate and enjoy the fruits of these new rules. All right, so Theo, we're going to put you on the spot. You're scouting the teams. You've looked at the lineups, new offseason acquisitions, the injuries. Who do you like in both leagues? Who are the two best teams? I work with Major League Baseball now, so I'm a fan of all 30 teams. You're just passionate.

Duly noted. I'm making no predictions about the World Series. I will predict that if fans invest a little bit of time in Major League Baseball this year, they're going to see more action than they ever have. Come on. I know. We all need people who try to see more action than they ever have. Come on. I know. I mean, all the people who talk to see a better face of play.

He's going to win. Those are my predictions. He's going to win it all. You know what I just heard? Yankees pod break. Exactly. Subtext. All right, MLB consultant Theo Epstein,

thank you very much for coming on and not telling us who you think's going to win. Thank you so much. He told us. We greatly appreciate it.