Morning Joe - Morning Joe 3/6/23

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

Another Norfolk Southern train derails in Ohio; Trump airs grievances in CPAC speech

We must reach out and appeal to the patriotic and fundamental ideals of average Americans who do not consider themselves movement people, but who respond to the same American ideals that we do. I'm not talking about some vague notion of an abstract, amorphous American mainstream. I'm talking about Main Street Americans in their millions. They come in all sizes, shapes, and colors. Blue-collar workers, blacks, Hispanics, shoekeepers, scholars, service people, housewives, and professional men and women.

They are the backbone of America, and we can't move America without moving their hearts and minds as well. They want all electric stoves all over the country, but we don't have the electric power for that. And we want electric stoves, but we also want gas stoves. It's April Fool's. Why do they want that? CPAC then and now, the conservative conference has shifted in recent years to grievance politics. Those two speeches, 41 years apart, now led by former President Donald Trump, who delivered a dark speech telling a sparse crowd at CPAC, quote, I am your retribution. We'll have more of his remarks and what they mean for the 2024 presidential race just ahead.

Plus, we'll get a live report from Springfield, Ohio, where another Norfolk Southern train carrying hazardous material went off the tracks, the second derailment in that state in just over a month. Also ahead, we'll be joined by Reverend Al Sharpton, who was right next to President Joe Biden as they crossed the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Alabama, marking the anniversary of Bloody Sunday. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Monday, March 6th. I'm Willie Geist. Joe and Mika off this morning with us, the host of Way Too Early, White House Bureau Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, former aide to the George W. Bush White House and State Department's Elise Jordan, and former White House press secretary,

now an MSNBC host, Jen Psaki. Her new show, Inside with Jen Psaki, debuts on Sunday, March 19th. Good morning to all of you. We'll get to some news in just a minute. Let's start with the developments out of CPAC. We'll get to those. We'll begin with the National Transportation Safety Board investigating another Norfolk Southern train derailment in Ohio. 28 cars came off the tracks on Saturday near Springfield, just west of Columbus. No injuries were reported. Officials say the train was carrying hazardous materials, but not in any of the cars that derailed. Still, residents were ordered to shelter in place for several hours as a precaution.

The crash happened just over a month after a Norfolk Southern train carrying toxic chemicals derailed an East Palestine along the Pennsylvania border, renewing calls for rail safety. In a statement, Democratic Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown wrote, Ohio communities should not be forced to live in fear of another disaster. It is unacceptable. He called on Congress to pass immediate legislation. NBC News correspondent Jesse Kirsch joins us now from Springfield, Ohio, with the latest. Jesse, good morning. Willie, good morning. You can see this area still blocked off behind us here. This morning, we have no word on any public health threat, no reported injuries from officials. But as you mentioned, this train was carrying hazardous materials, according to Norfolk Southern, even though those cars did not derail, according to the company.

And now the National Transportation Safety Board says federal investigators will be heading to the scene. Another Norfolk Southern derailment again in Ohio. The harrowing moment captured on camera. This driver backing away from a railroad crossing Saturday as several train cars came off the tracks in Springfield. Norfolk Southern says that train was carrying hazardous materials, liquid propane and ethanol. The company says those cars did not derail. No release of any chemical or any hazardous material to the soil, to the air, to the water. Officials reporting no injuries and no public health threat, but they asked less than a dozen residents within 1,000 feet of the site to shelter in place for roughly nine hours overnight.

Some who live miles away, largely unfazed. I assumed that, you know, if it was anything important, I'd probably get on my phone. So you weren't to work because you weren't getting any kind of alert. Yeah, exactly. Authorities also say they were not aware this train had hazardous material on board before the derailment. We were not notified, which is not uncommon. This Dayton area incident comes about a month after Norfolk Southern's toxic derailment, roughly 220 miles away in East Palestine, Ohio. State officials say they were not aware of that train's hazardous cargo either before its derailment. What do you say to people who say you shouldn't be operating right now?

I would say that, first of all, safety is our number one priority. The railroad says the train had 212 cars and two crew members, with four of the 28 cars that derailed having previously carried either diesel exhaust fluid or an additive commonly used in wastewater treatment. It's honestly weird that like this is actually happening like happening everywhere. This is Norfolk Southern's fourth derailment in Ohio in less than five months. As you mentioned, Willie, Senator Sherrod Brown calling this unacceptable, making another push for legislative

rail safety reform. That's something we know has bipartisan support on Capitol Hill, where the CEO of Norfolk Southern is expected to testify later this week. And again, Willie, the investigative focus here intensifying today. We expect federal authorities to be looking into this on scene today. Willie. And you can understand why residents there in Ohio are skeptical of any declarations right out of the box that it's safe, that there were no hazardous chemicals spilled. They've been watching for over a month East Palestine as well. So, Jesse, just on the safety question, you've been covering these train derailments now, as you said, in the last five months, several of them just from Norfolk Southern. What's going on there? What exactly is happening?

Is this common for this many trains to go off the tracks? Well, frankly, Willie, and we've talked about this before, and obviously, as you mentioned, we've been watching this for over a month now as well. Derailments happen. That is a part of this business. And that's something that we are becoming more acutely aware of, I think, because of the high focus that has been placed on the aftermath of East Palestine. Norfolk Southern yesterday, when I asked them, I pushed one of the representatives on this idea of, should they be operating right now when you see these happening time and again? And the representative said that safety is their number one priority. The Norfolk Southern representative said they investigate all of these derailments.

And if there are safety learnings to be taken from that, they will be put into place. But obviously, Willie, we still do not know the official cause of the derailment in East Palestine. And now we're looking at investigators coming to figure out what happened in another one. Again, just about a month later. NBC's Jesse Kirsch covering another train derailment in Ohio. Jesse, thanks so much. We appreciate it. Turning to politics, the weekend saw a number of developments with the 2024 presidential field. Former President Donald Trump, as we showed you a moment ago, returned to the stage at CPAC, speaking for nearly two

hours on Saturday. That is when former Republican governor announced he will not run. Meanwhile, during their annual retreat last week in Baltimore, House Democrats agreed they will stick with President Biden for 2024. NBC News White House correspondent Ali Raffa is tracking all of the developments. On this bridge, blood was given to help redeem the soul of America. President Biden paying tribute to the heroes of Bloody Sunday, the seminal moment in the civil rights movement that led to passage of the landmark Voting Rights Act nearly 60 years ago. The right to vote, to have your vote counted, is the threshold of democracy and liberty. With it, anything's possible. Without it, without that right, nothing is possible. The president hoping to make good on a 2020 campaign promise his administration is trying to keep in the spotlight ahead of an expected second presidential bid.

I will not let a filibuster obstruct the sacred right to vote. Across the aisle. Republicans must compete using every lawful means to win. President Biden's potential 2024 rival calling for a different kind of change. That means swamping the left with mail-in votes, early votes, and election day votes. Have to do it. We have to change our thinking because some bad things happened. Former President Donald Trump laying out the framework of his campaign in a wide-ranging, nearly two-hour CPAC speech to a heavily pro-MAGA crowd Saturday night,

saying he would not suspend it if indicted on any charges from the multiple investigations he's facing. The field of candidates taking shape more than 19 months out from Election Day. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who still hasn't thrown his hat in the ring, touting his own leadership. You've seen massive gains in states like Florida. Meanwhile, former Maryland governor and fierce Trump critic Larry Hogan announcing he will not challenge Mr. Trump in 2024. Having Trump call me names on Twitter didn't didn't really scare me off. NBC's Ali Rafa reporting for us there.

So, Jonathan Lemire, let's step back and take the big view of this. We had Donald Trump at CPAC speaking to really the distilled down core base of MAGA supporters. He won the straw poll, as expected by a wide margin. But Nikki Haley was the only other candidate who even showed up there. And after her speech, she was chased by a crowd into an elevator. Her aides had to get her out of there as they chanted Trump 2024. So we know what CPAC was at the breakers in Palm Beach, a group of other potential candidates and candidates were there talking to donors, raising money. So you did have this divide in the party, these two groups, one that want Donald Trump there, the other that would like to turn the page. But for now, I mean, you just look at the polling. This is Trump's nomination to lose.

So what did you see in all those events over the weekend? Yeah, you're right to point out this sort of a nifty, tidy split screen of where the Republican Party is right now. And one side's louder than the other, for sure. Now, to be clear, there is an effort among some of the Republican Party to seek alternatives to Donald Trump, to believe that putting him at the top ticket of 2024 would lead to another loss. And at the moment, anyway, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who has not yet announced his candidacy, he seems like the preferred choice. Per polling, he is by far the leader in the field were he to jump in. But even he, per most polls, is well behind Donald Trump. And look, this was not a surprise this weekend at CPAC. This was a dark grievance field, almost dangerous speech, I'd say, from the former president with

the key line being, I am your retribution, suggesting what his next four years in office would be like. We're here to be elected again. But at least those, look, CPAC attendance down. A lot of big names skipped it uh but trump to no one's surprise put up the big number in the straw poll but people i did talk to there say yeah maybe it's only a portion of the base that's still with trump but it's still a bigger portion than anyone else has and they're not going anywhere and no matter where that where this field goes pace that trump is going to be able to count on their support. Well, the big question, even if someone else managed to prevail in the Republican nomination primary field, would those voters go with the new candidate and vote Republican still? I don't know that they would.

You look at what happened with CPAC this weekend, and it's just such a changed landscape and really a microcosm for the Republican Party at large. Think about 2015 and how every single candidate in the Republican field went to CPAC and they spoke and they were received, you know, to different levels of enthusiasm. But it wasn't what it is now. There were different ideologies, different stripes of the Republican Party represented there. This year, CPAC was just essentially a Trump super PAC. And I, you know, one Republican operative said, you know, CPAC's the swamp on the clearance rack. And I thought that was hilarious. But it does kind of show you it's seen now as something that's almost corrupt and just a pay for play event. And it really shows the demise of CPAC as an event. John mentioned that line from former President Trump.

I am your retribution. It kind of was the core of his argument about grievance. Here's exactly what he said at CPAC. Our enemies are desperate to stop us because they know that we are the only ones who can stop them. They're not coming after me. They're coming after you. And I'm just standing in their way.

That's all I'm doing. I'm standing in their way. If you put me back in the White House, their reign is over. Their reign will be over. And they know it. And America will be a free nation once again. I am your warrior. I am your justice.

And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution. I am your retribution. I'm not going to let this happen. So, Jen, it really is extraordinary to listen to a former president of the United States, a guy who lived in the White House just over two years ago, framed himself as the outsider. Put me, send me to Washington, put me in the White House, and I'll be the one who can take it back for you. I'm the one who can stand in the way of they, them, whoever he's talking about there. Not a surprising speech from him. I mean, we know that's what he says all the time, but still kind of an extraordinary lane

for him to try to be in. Yeah, it certainly is. I mean, I think what's what he says all the time. It's still kind of an extraordinary lane for him to try to be in. Yeah, it certainly is. I mean, I think what I heard there, Willie, was it wasn't about party. It was about him. So them and they could be everyone. I mean, he also had some language in his speech where he kind of said we're not going to go back to the party of and he named a number of prominent Republicans from the past. I also thought one of the most interesting things he said this weekend, not surprising again, was when he was asked in a gaggle about what he would do if he were indicted. And what he said was, oh, absolutely, whether he would leave.

Oh, absolutely. I wouldn't think about leaving. Meaning this isn't even about winning the Republican primary. This is about him, him leading his movement and his intention, as we've all been speculating, to stay in the race no matter what happens. Yeah. To pick up on that point, Willie, this is a lot of same old, same old from Trump on Saturday at really great length, nearly two hours. Some people in the back were leaving as he was talking. But the one thing that was new is he went through all of the investigations he's currently facing.

And there are many. So that took some time. And he, of course, discredited them. But he did make that point that he's going to stay in no matter what. And he's also been not necessarily from the stage, but otherwise his aides are already putting out there that like he's not necessarily going to guarantee that he'll support whoever the Republican nominee is if it's not him. So he is setting up the groundwork here that he is in this for the long haul, no matter where this race goes, almost assuring a fractured party and therefore defeat for the Republicans in November of 2024, unless he is the nominee. So he's almost playing a little hot. He's doing a little blackmail here with the GOP, with all the legal peril surrounding him. Yeah, that is a big piece of this story for him going into 2024. And you hear some of the Republicans, Nikki Haley, who is in the race, saying, are you tired of losing? It's time for a new generation.

Obviously, that's a swipe at Donald Trump, though, an indirect one. It wasn't well received at CPAC, which is a Trump friendly crowd. And then you had Mike Pompeo, who is considering anyway a presidential run. He took aim at the Trump administration's record on fiscal policy and an administration, of course, he served in. During an appearance on Fox News Sunday, Pompeo highlighted how the Trump administration spent six trillion dollars more than it took in, adding to the deficit. Would a President Pompeo do a better job at managing the deficit and debt than a President Trump did? I think a President Pompeo or any conservative president will do better than not only we did during the four years of the Trump administration,

Barack Obama, George Bush, the list is long, Shannon, folks who come to Washington on one theory and aren't prepared to stand up and explain to the American people how we're actually going to get that right. It matters to the next generation. The system is at risk. If we don't get it right, we are $31 trillion in the hole. We've got to begin to grow the economy, build it back with lower taxes. And when we do that and grow our economy, we'll get it back right. It's going to take a true conservative leader, Shannon. Are you saying that President Trump wasn't a true conservative leader? $6 trillion more in debt. That's never the right direction for the country. And a couple of days earlier, Pompeo made this remark during his speech at CPAC, viewed by some as a veiled reference to Trump.

We can't become the left following celebrity leaders with their own brand of identity politics, those with fragile egos who refuse to acknowledge reality. This is a tough world, both abroad and here. And we need, we can't shift blame to others, but must accept the responsibility that comes to those of us who step forward and lead. So, Elise, there are veiled references to Donald Trump. Nikki Haley, as I said, made the one about, you tired of losing time for a new generation? Mike Pompeo talking about the deficit. Let's put grievance behind us. But no one, no one, including Ron DeSantis, who's not in the race yet or if he does get in, has been asked about Donald Trump, has not taken him on in a frontal way.

No one really goes after Donald Trump. And they're going to have to figure that out because he is just dominating the space right now. Well, Willie, that's why I think that Donald Trump is in a pretty strong position, because you look at back when he first vied for the Republican nomination in 2015, 2016, he had other Republicans attacking him from all sides. You had candidates who would go up against him and granted they would be vanquished, but they were at least going up against him. And you see now how hesitant all of these candidates are and still tiptoeing around Donald Trump, even after

he had, you know, he, he allegedly incited an insurrection. I would say, I don't know if I have to say allegedly for legal reasons, since it's still in the courts. But we all know his role in that. And they're still tiptoeing around it. Even Mike Pence, his own vice president, who was run away from the Capitol and chased to the sounds of hang Mike Pence. Yeah. And Mike Pence and others won't answer either. They say, well, we're going to have better options. He's not going to be the nominee. That sounds like wishful thinking to a lot of people. So, Jen, let's take this from the Democratic side. Not a big stretch for you to think hypothetically about working in the White House. What is Joe Biden? What is his team thinking as they watch all of this play out where it really does in this moment anyway, until Ron DeSantis makes a decision that Donald Trump is the guy. Well, this feels a whole lot different if you're sitting in a White House right now with President Joe Biden sitting in the Oval Office than it did a year ago, even because a year ago, remember, last summer, there was some speculation and chatter behind the scenes of whether or not

President Biden should run. There were other candidates who were thinking about running. I mean, that could certainly still happen. But what happened over the course of the last couple of days is you had Pramila Jayapal, the leader of the Progressive Caucus, enthusiastically endorsed Joe Biden, say she wanted him to run again. That's pretty great if you're sitting in the White House right now. And meanwhile, on the other side, you have this complete circus chaos where Trump still has a hold on the core of the party, as we saw at CPAC. And you have other candidates running who are scared to run against him. And, you know, that is interesting, I think, if you're in the White House, because you're going to you're going to let that play out. You're going to see when somebody finally throws a punch at Trump, when the next person throws a punch at Trump.

And meanwhile, they're just going to keep building support on the Democratic side. And that's very, very good for them if that lasts for the time being. You're right at that meeting of Democratic lawmakers really coalescing around Joe Biden, those questions going away about whether or not he should run. We'll see if he makes an announcement sometime soon. Still ahead on Morning Joe, much more from CPAC, including Nikki Haley's veiled jab at former President Trump, plus President Biden's message to Democrats

about getting tough on crime ahead of 2024. Also ahead, Reverend Al Sharpton will join us live from Selma, Alabama, on the heels of the president's visit there commemorating Bloody Sunday. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. The sun is up over the White House at 625 in the morning. President Biden traveled yesterday to Selma, Alabama, to commemorate the 58th anniversary of Bloody Sunday. That day, of course, marks the police attack on a group of black marchers who crossed the Edmund Pettus Bridge in 1965. This was Biden's first trip to Selma as president. He marched across the bridge with several lawmakers and civil rights advocates.

In many of your faith traditions, Sunday is the Sabbath, the day of rest. But on that Sunday morning of March 7th, 1965, Amelia Boynton Robinson and 600 of her fellow children of God chose different pews. On this bridge of her beloved Selma, they were called to the altar of democracy. Unsure of their fate, but certain of the cause was righteous. So she would go on to say, quote, you can never know where you're going unless you know where you've been. We know where we have been. My fellow Americans, on this Sunday of our time, we know where we've been. And we know, more importantly, where we have to go forward together.

So let's pray, but let's not rest. Let's keep marching. Let's keep the faith. The president yesterday in Selma, Alabama, joining us now, the host of MSNBC's Politics Nation and president of the National Action Network, Reverend Al Sharpton and president and CEO of the National Urban League, Mark Muriel. Gentlemen, good morning. It's good to see you both. Rev, we saw you there yesterday side by side with the president crossing the Edmund Pettus Bridge that, of course, hallowed ground in this country. What was it like to be there yesterday with the president? Well, it was mixed feelings.

It was a great thing to see the president of the United States, only the second president while in office, the first being Barack Obama, march across that bridge with us. now more than ever since 1965, threatened with different states that are changing the voting laws and that we're not just commemorating, but we're trying to continue a struggle. When I was marching across that bridge next to the president, holding hands with Reverend Jesse Jackson, who was in a wheelchair, who was the generation that was beaten on that bridge. He marched as a student there. I was only 9 or 10 years old, but he was a college student. He marched there. And I'm looking at him and that generation of his, John Lewis and others, that paid the price 58 years ago, and here we are 58 years later,

seeing states use gerrymandering, use all kinds of schemes to stop early voting. So it's not about just remembering what happened, but it's saying we can't let it go backward. And that's why I think President Biden's speech was right on target. And I think his presence was exactly what we need at this time. And Mark, obviously, the symbolism is always strong crossing the Edmund Pettus Bridge being in Selma. But you all National Urban League kicking off your legislative policy conference this week, talking about a little bit what Rev got to there, which is the actual on the ground meat and potatoes of legislation that helps people who have been held back in this country. So what would you like to see this administration focus on? Well, Willie, we good morning to all and good morning, Reverend. Good morning, Willie. We are going to we have 500 urban leaders

arriving in Washington today. We'll be here today at the White House, tomorrow at various agencies and on Capitol Hill, and on Wednesday on Capitol Hill. So we're going to bring the message of voting rights, democracy and economic inclusion directly to lawmakers, Republicans and Democrats, and we'll engage with the administration. Yesterday was important, and I hope for President Biden it is the start of a re-energized effort to pass two important bills, the John Lewis bill and the freedom to vote bill. Those bills would protect, would create, if you will, a firewall against the kind of absolute insanity we're seeing at the state level. This year alone, in 2023, there have been 150 voter suppression bills introduced in 32 states, and it's only the beginning of March. So the

movement to undercut, undermine democracy is taking place at the state level in state legislatures. And the only way to stop it is with two important federal bills. Hey, Rev, it's Jonathan. Certainly, President Biden spoke powerfully yesterday, and he has had a lot of success his first two plus years in office passing legislation. But I know that many Democrats, yourself included, were disappointed the federal voting rights law wasn't one of them. So as we start thinking about 2024 and we know what a significant percentage of the Democratic base is made up of by black voters, there were some civil rights activists who in the past have said that if he couldn't get this stuff done, they weren't sure they would be with him next time around. Obviously, we're a long way from Election Day. But where do you think that stands right now? Is he going to be able to if he can't get this stuff, this voting registration done, the law is done, is he going to be able to have their support? I think that it's something that he does not take for granted,

and nor should we take him for granted. I think that the enthusiasm and the turnout will be based on the genuine ability to deliver in terms of voting and in terms of criminal justice reform and economic concerns and showing the best of efforts. Now, on the other side of that, if he cannot deliver because of the inflexibility of the Republicans to at all costs dig in against us, they can, in many ways, encourage and incite the turnout that the Democrats and President Biden need. Just according to how it's played out, when you look at the fact we couldn't pass the John Lewis bill with every Republican voting against it, well, that may help the Democrats because we were not able to overcome the filibuster because of two Democrats, but all Republicans. So it is according to the efforts shown. And I think that's why on a political side, when you see President Biden himself showing up

and marching across that bridge as president, first time as president. When you see him at Ebenezer Baptist Church on King's birthday and at our National Action Network breakfast on the holiday, I think he's not taking the black vote for granted. And I think we've seen no outreach by the Republicans, none. The best they've given us is Hershel Walker, and I'll leave it up to the panel to decide whether that was a plus or minus. Mark, I wanted to get your take on the recent reports about Mariel Bowser's veto of the criminal justice law in D.C. and also the reports of the president planning to veto it? Because it's been controversial, obviously, but this is crime is, of course, an issue in big cities. And I just wanted to see what you thought about what this meant for how big city mayors would be dealing with this

issue moving forward. Well, I think the issue in that case is D.C. voting rights and D.C. independence. I am troubled by the notion that Congress or the president can override an act of the District of Columbia government, which is why part of the voting rights agenda, Jen, for a long time has been voting rights for the District of Columbia. They should have a member of Congress and two U.S. senators. They should be afforded afforded the status of a state. Mayors are on the front lines in this fight against criminal justice, this fight against violence, trying to balance reforming a criminal justice system. And how do you fight violence? I think everyone should know that experience shows that crackdown policing, the idea that

if you just crack down, that somehow you can stop violence and crime with those sort of tactics is not only discredited, but buys you more problems. And so mayors have to strike the right balance of investing in communities as well as trying to to embark on a system of intelligent and effective policing. It's not just about more. It's about effective. But you've got to do all of the other things as well. And, you know, this is something we've been talking about on this show an awful lot, especially after Eric Adams was elected in New York City, a former New York City police officer because of quality of life issues. That's what voters said in poll after poll. It's crime is quality of life. Lori Lightfoot in Chicago just lost her bid for reelection a few

days ago, didn't even make the runoff mainly on the issue of crime, voters said. So what is the balance for big city mayors? What is the message that President Biden should be sending to members of Congress about the issue of crime? Well, the balance is that we must have police reform, but at the same time, we must engage in some hands-on ways of solving crime. And that is by having better training with police, but having police work and live in the communities that they're policing, at least in those cities, and engaging in having citizens involved in fighting crime. We are not pro-crime. In fact, no one suffers more disproportionately to crime than Blacks and Browns. But we must be involved in the process of making our communities safe. And I think that that is the balance that this administration is trying to get to having many of us around the table. And that's where we have to go. The answer is not, as we've said, that someone, the far, far left has said defund the police.

The answer is define the police. Let's define how we go to police. But we cannot afford to live in communities where we don't have law, but we can't have the police out of order. Mark, I'm sure this is one of many issues that are going to come up this week as you all at the National Urban League hold that conference over the next several days there in Washington. What else can we expect? economic participation in the infrastructure bill, in the science and chips bill, in the climate initiatives that the administration got through Congress. It's important because we are a civil rights organization that focuses on jobs and economic inclusion, that those bills be implemented with a strong racial equity lens. So we'll be in discussions on that, as well as on voting rights, on hate crimes, on police reform. We've got a full agenda over the next four days. We're excited to be here. First time in person in about four years. And for many Urban Leaguers, it'll be their first

visit to the White House. And we're looking forward to that today. And we should point out, Mr. Mayor, congratulations to you. 20 years as president and CEO of the National Urban League. It's been quite a run for you. Congratulations. Not bad for a 25-year-old. You started young. You started young. President and CEO of the National Urban League, Mark Morial. Mark, great to see you. You can register and stream the Legislative Policy Conference today at NUL.org. And Reverend Al Sharpton, thanks for taking some time out on the road to join us as well. We always appreciate it. Coming up here, we're following a developing story out of the Middle East where Israel and key Gulf states are growing more concerned about Russia's alliance with Iran. And we'll have a live report from Tel Aviv amid continued protests

over hard right reforms for Israel's court system. Morning Joe is coming right back. The media outlet Semaphore is out with new reporting this morning that Israel and several Gulf states are lobbying Russia against providing military hardware to Iran. Jay Solomon writes, quote, Arab diplomats have told Russian officials supplying Tehran with advanced weapons would not only destabilize the military balance in the Persian Gulf, but also place Russia firmly on the side of Iran in a potential conflict, isolating Moscow from its Arab partners. Arab officials say they have asked Russia to at least delay any weapons shipments to Iran if it won't agree to cancel them outright. And Jay Solomon joins us now. He is Semaphore's global security editor. Jay, good morning. It's good to have you on with us. So is there any evidence that Vladimir Putin, that Russia is heeding any of these warnings? In other words, does he care

what these other countries think? Well, ironically, the Arab states and Israel still maintain relatively good relations with Moscow. So there is some influence there. And we have seen in the past the Russians, particularly on anti-missile batteries, have not sent them over. So it's kind of early to tell. But I do think there is some hope in the Gulf that they can push back against Russia. But the relationship has really changed in the last five years, last decade between Russia and Iran into a full military alliance. And I think there's concern now because Russia is increasingly dependent on Iran in Ukraine, particularly for these kamikaze drones, that this pressure in the past that might have been successful might not be now.

So, Jay, which countries are we talking about here? It's important to this story, but also to the Ukraine story. Are these countries influential enough with Vladimir Putin, with Russia to say back off in Ukraine as well? I mean, I think the Saudis, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are the Arab states that probably have the most, you know, influence and most control with Putin. Mohammed bin Salman, Mohammed bin Zayed, theayed, the leaders of Saudi Arabia and the UAE, they still are the few world leaders that have met with Putin in recent months. Israel has what's called a deconfliction, sort of a hotline to Russia in Syria because the Israelis have been launching a lot of airstrikes against Iranian interests inside Syria.

And the Russian Air Force is very prominent there. So I would say it's predominantly these three states that might still have some direct, you know, line to the Russian leadership. But as I was saying earlier, the Iranian-Russian relationship has really gotten a lot closer over the past four or five years. And Putin seems increasingly dependent on Iran for these drones and potentially other military hardware. So, you know, I think it's a really fluid situation right now. So, Jay, what can be done about this partnership?

What is the West, the United States in particular, what avenues do they have to try to have these Moscow and Tehran disengage, which posing such a threat to so many in that region and elsewhere? Well, it's been interesting. You know, the U.S. government has had negotiations on and off for the last 10 years, basically, over Iran's nuclear program, of which Russia has been kind of a central player. So in the past, there had been some sort of coordination or cooperation to try to limit Iran's military capabilities, particularly nuclear weapons. And the nuclear agreement of 2015, which the Obama administration negotiated, that was kind of one of the key channels that the West had used to try to constrain Iran's capabilities.

That channel has kind of been frozen. But there's still some talk that the nuclear negotiations could be resumed, although there's skepticism. I say that's one channel, if that could be out again. I also think you'll probably see continued efforts by the U.S. to strengthen allied capabilities. The U.S. has had some pretty provocative military exercises with Israel in recent weeks, not so veiled examples of the capability to strike Iran if its nuclear capabilities keep engaging. So I guess it's largely those two channels, whether the diplomacy gets picked up again, but also an increasing alliance between the U.S., Israel and these Gulf states against, you know,

against Iran and Russia. I think it's a very fluid situation. It'll be interesting to see how far these Gulf states are willing to go to restrain Russia so far in the war with Ukraine. The answer is not very far. Semaphores Global Security Editor Jay Solomon. Jay, thanks so much for sharing your reporting. We appreciate it. Protests broke out across Israel for a ninth straight week on Saturday. Tens of thousands of demonstrators took peacefully to the streets to protest the government's plan to overhaul the country's court system. Joining us live from Tel Aviv, NBC News foreign correspondent Raf Sanchez.

Raf, it's good to see you. So explain for our viewers back here in the United States what exactly is going on in the streets right now. What are those protesters upset about? Well, Willie, this is starting to feel here in Israel like a full-blown constitutional crisis. Benjamin Netanyahu is showing no signs of backing down from his plan to weaken Israel's Supreme Court. Under his proposals, Israel's parliament, which is dominated by Netanyahu and his right-wing allies, could vote by a simple majority to simply ignore rulings of the Israeli Supreme Court. Now, Netanyahu will tell you that this is a necessary reform to curb activist judges. But Willie, 160,000 protesters were on the streets of Tel Aviv over the weekend protesting against it.

Just to give you a sense of scale, proportional to population, that is the equivalent of 5 million Americans out on the streets of New York City. And these people are very worried that Netanyahu's plan will effectively gut Israel's judiciary, that it will be a major blow to Israeli democracy. And Willie, one of the protesters we met over the weekend was the daughter of the late Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, who, of course, was assassinated by a far right extremist back in 1995. She told us how painful it was to see members of the far-right now sitting around Benjamin Netanyahu's cabinet table after he brought them into government. He gave them senior government roles and how worried she is about her country's future. Take a listen.

We are all for Jewish democratic state. It's not a matter of left and right. It's a matter of those who believe and fought for those values. Now, Willie, another prominent voice speaking out against Netanyahu's plans, former New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg, who, as you know, is a lifelong supporter of Israel, not normally someone who weighs in on internal Israeli politics. But in an opinion piece in The New York Times, he says, in part, My love for Israel, my respect for its people and my concern about its future are now leading me to speak out against the current government's attempts to effectively abolish the nation's independent judiciary. And Willie, just one last illustration of how serious this is. The Israeli military confirming to me that a number of reservist fighter pilots from one of Israel's most elite Air Force squadrons are refusing to take part in

training this week out of protest because of these plans. And Willie, these fighter pilots are some of the most respected people in Israel's society. They are the ones who would be called upon to carry out an attack against Iran's nuclear facilities if it came to that. And the fact that they are saying that they are prepared to enter this political debate, that they are prepared to refuse to attend training, is a sign of quite how serious this situation is. Will it? It really is. That is a rare move. NBC's Raf Sanchez, a great job explaining

all this to us from Tel Aviv. Raf, thanks so much. We appreciate it. Still ahead this morning, Chris Rock released his new stand-up special over the weekend, addressing for the first time Will Smith slapping him at the Oscars last year. We'll show you more of what he had to say in that live Netflix special. That's ahead on Morning Joe. It is sleepy time in L.A., 3.54 in the morning, 6.54 here on the East Coast. For the first time, Chris Rock spoke publicly about the infamous slap at last year's Oscars. Rock cracking jokes about Will and Jada Pinkett Smith during a live Netflix special this weekend. There were his first extended remarks about that incident almost

a year ago. NBC News correspondent Marissa Parra has details. Oh, wow. The face of the slap heard around the world wasted no time getting to the punchline. Anybody that says words hurt has never been punched in the face. In his new Netflix special, Selective Outrage, Chris Rock is finally tackling that infamous slap head-on. And people like, did it hurt? It still hurts! I got summertime ringing in my ears! The comedian spending almost 10 minutes of his special on the smack.

Will Smith is significantly bigger than me. We are not the same size, okay? This guy, Will Smith does movies with his shirt off. You've never seen me do a movie with my shirt off. That moment at last year's Oscars, prompted by Rock's dig at Smith's wife, Jada Pinkett Smith, whose bald appearance is due to alopecia. The comedian came swinging at both, suggesting Smith's anger at him was really resentment towards his wife. She hurt him way more than he hurt me, okay? Who was publicly admitted to having an affair. Everybody that really knows,

knows I had nothing to do with that. I didn't have any entanglements. We've reached out to the couple who have not yet commented, but Smith has given multiple public apologies. Chris, I apologize to you. I'm here whenever you're ready to talk. It's not clear if the two have since spoken. Or if jabs make it less likely they ever will again. I have rooted for Will Smith my whole life. I root for this. OK, and now I watch Emancipation just to see him get whooped. Marissa Parra, NBC News. Chris Rock unloading in that live special on Saturday night. The whole thing is worth a watch.

Coming up next, we'll have an update on the war in Ukraine, including new reporting on how U.S. intelligence learned China was considering sending lethal military aid to Russia. Morning Joe is back after a short break.