Morning Joe - Morning Joe 3/7/24
Episode Date: March 7, 2024Sen. McConnell endorses Trump for president ...
Transcript
Discussion (0)
January 6th was a disgrace.
American citizens attacked their own government.
They used terrorism to try to stop a specific piece of domestic business they did not like.
Fellow Americans beat and bloodied our own police.
They stormed the Senate floor.
They tried to hunt down the Speaker of the House.
They built a gallows and chanted about murdering the Vice President.
They did this because they'd been fed wild falsehoods by the most powerful man on earth.
Because he was angry, he lost an election.
Former President Trump's actions preceded the riot were a disgraceful,
disgraceful dereliction of duty.
Therefore, I am endorsing
Donald J. Trump.
The one thing we cut off there,
and maybe it's not fair to Mitch,
is right after that
he broke into a rousing tune,
had a band,
Happy Days Are Here Again.
It was like the 32
convention. I couldn't believe it
but yeah also a little discordant you know song didn't go with the message but you know that's
mitch the mitch mcconnell there that was in 2021 that was about a month after january 6 blaming
donald trump for the insurrection the attack on the capitol squarely yesterday mitch mcconnell
endorsed donald Trump for president.
Who saw that coming?
We also should add in that Donald Trump has relentlessly attacked in a racist way.
Racist.
Mitch McConnell's wife.
But he says, you know what?
I have said for a long time that I will endorse whoever the nominee is,
even if it's the guy I blame for an attempted coup against the United States government.
Exactly.
You know, here's the thing, OK?
We say a lot of bad things sometimes about Ted Cruz here. But let me say there is a difference
between Mitch McConnell and Ted Cruz. All right. If Donald Trump had ever attacked Ted Cruz's wife,
that he never called her ugly, ever, ever struck out at her in the most personal of terms.
That is Texas tough right there.
He's a real man.
That's a line. No BS.
You can't cross that.
You cross that line with Ted.
You know what?
You might as well have crossed the Rio Grande, my friend.
On the way to Cancun?
Oh, yeah.
That would not have worked.
You can't.
Look, if you call Senator Cruz's wife ugly or suggest that Senator Cruz's father assassinated JFK, he won't support you, at least for a few months.
He won't do it.
At least not at the convention.
No, no.
He'll vote your conscience at the convention and then a few months later do a phone bank for Donald Trump and leading to.
Well, I guess a Lindsey Graham is another.
There's a guy, though.
No.
I mean, that guy. Profile in courage. Mr. Spine. Go on the floor. Enough is enough. There's a guy, though. Like, no, he would. I mean, that guy.
Profile card.
Mr. Spine.
Go on the floor.
Enough is enough.
I'm out.
I'm out.
And then three rednecks and a hound dog chasing around Reagan National.
And he's like, I mean, it's not like somebody doxed him and put his cell phone.
Yeah, it's not.
Yeah, I mean, put his cell phone up there.
I think we need a compilation.
I might start with Chris Christie and the McDonald's episode. On McConnell, though,
I will say the two moments that led to Donald Trump's comeback post-January 6th. One is how
Speaker McCarthy soon to be wanting to be Speaker McCarthy heading to Mar-a-Lago and posing for a
photo beginning that rehabilitation tour. The other is McConnell choosing not to try to convict
Trump in that second trial to push all pushing it until after the inauguration,
having it in February, believing things would cool off, voting to acquit himself.
And had he voted to convict and whipped others to do so, Trump wouldn't have been able to run
for office again. McConnell chose not to do that. Here we have that open the door for the Trump.
I will say there are a lot of things that Mitch did that we we saluted on the show. And and he he stood up. He stood up to Trump at very
important times. And yet at the end, if you want to take this endorsement at the end of his career,
basically, or if you want to take what what what happened at the end of that process where there really was
a question could mitch mcconnell have gotten enough republicans to to convict donald trump
and that impeachment proceeding he made the call we'll let the courts play it out yeah and we see
more aware that's lettuce george yeah I mean, part of being in leadership
is showing some leadership and at least attempting to do what you think is right. I mean, we, you
know, we all have political minds. We talk a lot about strategy, but there's also just such a thing
as right and wrong. And at the end of the day, it sounds like a lot of people have forgotten why you
go to Washington. It's supposed to be to serve Americans.
It's supposed to be to be a public servant.
And this just looks like it's about power.
It's shameless.
And Americans understand that.
They see that that's part of why so many voters are deeply demoralized and cynical about this process at this point.
And it's shameless, but it's also bizarre.
I mean, here's a man.
How old is Mitch McConnell?
Old enough that it doesn't matter.
Old enough that it doesn't matter.
I'm old enough that it doesn't matter.
That's right.
I mean, why not go out and just say what you think?
And he did say what he thought on that for that brief shining moment on February 13, 2021, where he said not only the stuff that we just saw on tape.
Right. He said there is a criminal law in this country.
He was endorsing Jack Smith before Jack Smith was even appointed. saying that the man was a criminal, that he did and that he did cause these people to engage in
violence on the Hill and that one of the remedies could be criminal prosecution. And so where is he
today? You know, and it's for what he's done. Well, for what? And I'm sorry, I'm just going to
ask. And I say this is a cruise. I say it of Lindsay. I say of all of them. I say it of Lindsey. I say it of all of them. I say it of just all the people Trump
insulted. What man? I ask that as a man, I'd say, or woman. But as a man, I say, what man
would put up with it? I had a very powerful Republican slander a friend of mine.
20 years later, 20 years later, he pulls me aside before his speech and begs me to stop.
And he says, Jesus Christ, Joe, it's been 20 years.
It's been 20 years.
So you shouldn't have said that about my friend.
It's going to be 20 more years.
I mean, that's what we would all do.
Well, except for my friends. Except for my friends.
When Donald Trump said I was a murderer and I should be executed, a lot of them voted for Donald Trump.
But the rest of us here.
But that even raises a question, Willie.
What is it about Donald Trump?
It's his brilliance.
People can insult someone's wife or husband.
In Mitch McConnell's case,
continue racist slurs against his wife.
And they're just fine with it.
I just, that's not,
I'm not even looking at Donald Trump there. I'm looking at these people. I'm looking just fine with it. I just I that's not I'm not even looking at Donald Trump
there. I'm looking at these people. I'm looking at my former friends. Yeah, I called you a murder,
but vote for him anyway. Regulations, you know, they're going to be down on this.
It's crazy. Yeah. Well, you and I have talked about this on and off the air. What are those
looks in the mirror like in the morning or at night for Lindsey Graham or for Ted Cruz or any of those guys? If you have any personal pride,
not talking about politics here, if you have any personal pride, how do you do it? How do you
swallow all that down and then go out and support the guy who's attacked you relentlessly? I mean,
he attacks Lindsey Graham in his home state during the primary. The crowd's booing Lindsey Graham while Lindsey stands there
and he mocks them, takes their support for granted.
And he should, because there's nothing he could do to them
that they wouldn't fall in line anyway.
But it is, it's again, not politics.
It's as a person who has personal pride.
How do you do it?
I don't know.
Lindsey's first words are,
hey y'all, my first two words if somebody did that to me would be markedly different.
And I don't think I'm outside of the norm here, Lemire. I just again, this this is so bizarre.
I want to underline again, Mitch McConnell insulted repeatedly, said this guy tried to basically destroy American democracy.
He's watched his wife attacked with racist screeds repeatedly.
And he said, I endorse Donald Trump.
It's so deeply cynical and it's based all out of a fear of Trump.
And McConnell, of all people who has announced he's not he's stepping down from leadership.
He's not going to run again.
He would seem to be a person who doesn't have to do this.
And yes, he does want a Republicans to have the majority of the Senate again, even if he's
not going to be the leader there. Yeah, but Donald Trump took that from him. Of course he did. Twice.
Yes, twice. He would have been Senate majority leader over the past four years, except for one
person and one person alone. The two men have not spoken in years, and yet McConnell still,
still backs this. And he defended it by saying yesterday that, well, you know, right.
You know, in February 2021, just days after that speech, I said I would back whoever the Republican nominee was.
And and that, of course, became because he's putting party before country.
That's what he's doing. Party before personal pride, too.
But, George, that's that's an old custom that I understand when it's George H.W.
Bush or Ronald Reagan or John McCain or pick your Mitt Romney, whoever it is, you Bob Dole,
George H.W. Bush. Right. But you've said it's not that high. You said this is a man who may
face criminal prosecution because he led an attempted coup against the government. So maybe
you could change the tradition just for this one case. and it's not just doing it for the country.
If he only cared about the Republican Party,
he would have spoken out and said,
we've got to get rid of Trump long ago.
Even if he wanted to sacrifice himself just for his party,
that, I mean, why not do that?
We have to just try to balance things here as we always do.
We have somebody here from a remote location that's going to be defending not only Mitch McConnell.
Hold on.
Let's try it again.
Here, cut that.
Cut that.
We'll do that.
Okay.
All right.
Here we go.
You know, we try to be fair.
TJ, we're cutting that out, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
You know, we always try to be fair here at Morning Show, so let's bring in Sam Stein.
He believes that what Mitch McConnell did was great.
A proud, honorable, manly thing.
Sam, explain.
Sorry, what?
Called him a true patriot.
You called him a true patriot.
The Paul Revere of our day.
I appreciate the setup.
Thank you.
Look, I'm not totally surprised.
I don't think we actually are surprised by this because this was coming a long way away.
He had always said he was going to support the nominee.
It was baffling to a degree because of precisely the criticisms he had already registered.
Look, there's nothing
really more to add on what you're saying. He obviously Republican politics is basically
dictated by a fear of Trump and his base. And I think that's the fair assessment throughout this.
And frankly, if you're being utterly cynical about it, you know, the people who have stood up to Trump, who have followed
their personal convictions, have paid a political price for it, mostly. Those who voted to impeach
him in the House, the Republicans, many of them, if not all, have been ousted. The people who
voted for conviction have either left or are leaving or are now, you know, scampering away.
And McConnell, what stood out to me here about McConnell is all of the things you said,
but also the fact that this guy is a self-proclaimed institutionalist.
And what he did after January 6th is he took the political power that he possessed and he forfeited it.
He just said, I'm not going to use
it. I'll kick it to a different branch of government, the judiciary, and I'll let them
decide. And here's a man who is known to be a sort of Machiavellian, ruthless practitioner of
politics, utterly powerful, who in that moment, in that critical moment, decided he was going to
just not use it. And I thought that was always an
extraordinary decision on his part. And ultimately, we're now left with him leaving leadership and
Trump potentially ascending back to the White House. Yeah. And as Sam says, the sad part is
the inevitability of all this. And by the way, he wasn't alone yesterday. Joni Ernst endorsed
Donald Trump. Governor Glenn Youngkin of Virginia endorsed Donald Trump, a long list
of others. George mentioned the part of that speech that we didn't hear back in February of
2021. So again, just a little over a month after January 6th, where he said Donald Trump could face
and should face criminal prosecution. President Trump is still liable for everything he did while he was in office as an ordinary
citizen.
Unless the statute of limitations is run, still liable for everything he did while he
was in office.
Didn't get away with anything yet.
We have a criminal justice system in this country.
We have civil litigation.
And former presidents are not immune from being accountable by either one.
How do you reconcile your Trump endorsement with the fact that you called him practically and morally responsible for January 6th and the fact that he insulted you and your wife repeatedly?
On February the 25th, 2021, shortly after the attack on the Capitol,
I was asked a similar question. And I said I would support the nominee for president,
even if it were the former president.
Mr. McConnell, in April of last year,
you indicated and didn't really directly answer the question as to whether or not you were comfortable with Mr. Trump
if he was in the middle of criminal trials and indictments
and he was the nominee.
I presume that means you're comfortable with him.
I don't have anything to add to what I just said.
I said in February of 2021,
shortly after the attack on the Capitol,
that I would support President Trump if he were the nominee of our party. And he obviously is going to be the nominee of our party.
So, George, to answer your previous question, Mitch McConnell is 82 years old,
on his way out of leadership, likely in the next few years out of the United States Senate.
Not a lot to lose. This could be a moment where you show a little bit of courage.
Yeah, why not? It's not really courage.
We have, I mean, for the country, I mean, he really was, other than the vote for the acquittal
that day, he was a patriot that day by calling out Donald Trump. And I think he truly believed that he didn't have to take the step of barring Trump
from public office. But it didn't work. So why not? Why not as a parting shot? Not for himself,
but for the country and even his own party say this is a bad thing. I just, it is beyond my comprehension. I mean, you look at Nikki Haley
over the last few weeks, okay? I mean, she's not perfect. I mean, she could double back anytime,
but you know, there are certain, she seemed liberated. She seemed happier to be able to speak
truth, not the full truth, but she was getting there. She's
leading people toward the truth and it's liberating. But where does that story end? I hope,
you know, I hope Nikki has become liberated and understands the Republican Party that I used to be a member of desperately needs
somebody like her carrying the torch in these dark times. But what are the odds that at the end
she will find her way to endorsing Donald Trump, even after and we'll show even after the insults
continued last night? It doesn't look good. I mean, we almost need a psychologist here at this point to understand how an 82 year old man like Mitch McConnell feels the need to continue to express this fealty to someone who has done nothing but destroy the country and the institutions that Mitch McConnell has served. And, you know, I'm honestly to the point
where I just want to say, what is it?
Is it about money?
Are you trying to make money when you leave office?
I mean, you're 82 years old.
Is it you want to be friends with the Trumpers
in the country club and you don't want to be shunned?
Well, I mean, do you have to justify your decisions?
So that's Lindsay.
I remember John McCain telling me near the end of his life, he said, you know.
We've already lost Lindsey. This was actually maybe not.
But this I think this is in February of was it 17, maybe.
And he said, Lindsey's just so excited to golf off with the president of the United States and do anything.
But Mitch McConnell, he ain't going to go off. And so why?
And it's not like he doesn't understand history. He knows how he will be painted in history.
He knows how Trump will be painted in history.
Does that not matter what your children and grandchildren and people think of you after you're gone?
It's also just it's embarrassing, I think, for all Americans to see this.
This is not what we want from people who are supposed to be serving.
We're supposed to be different in this way.
It's not supposed to be about some cult of personality.
I mean, there's there's something very dark about it.
And I think, you know, people like Vladimir Putin are going to be watching this with a smile. Yeah. And you know who else will? Donald Trump's guest at Mar-a-Lago today,
Orban. That's Friday. He'll he'll he'll be looking at it. And as Donald Trump
tries to model himself into a position to be the next Orban right here in the United States. When we come back, we will show you Donald Trump's response to Nikki Haley,
saying, hey, maybe, Donald Trump, maybe you can work to gain some of my supporters
as you move towards the November election.
Donald Trump, his response, more insults.
We'll show you when we return.
President Biden and former President Trump both had huge nights.
Yep. Now it's pretty much certain that we're going to have a rematch between Biden and Trump.
At this point, the only thing that can stop them is a flight of stairs.
Yeah. After the results came in, both guys threw big victory parties with confetti made from shredded classified documents. It was touching. Nikki Haley officially suspended
her presidential campaign. But here's the good news for Haley. She's only 52, which means she
can run for president at least eight more times. So if you do the math, you might be right. Jimmy
Fallon last night upstairs here.
So November rematch between Joe Biden and Donald Trump essentially set this morning
following Nikki Haley's decision to drop out of the 2024 presidential race.
Haley did not endorse Donald Trump in her speech yesterday.
One big question is now, though, where will her supporters go?
Haley says that is up to Donald Trump.
It is now up to Donald Trump to earn the votes of those in our party and beyond it who did not support him.
And I hope he does that.
At its best, politics is about bringing people into your cause, not turning them away.
And our conservative cause badly needs more people.
This is now his time for choosing.
How did he choose?
That was nice outreach. That was pretty nice.
Yeah.
Let's say this is a time you can grow your base.
Well, Donald Trump responded during Haley's speech
while she was saying that with this untrue social quote,
Haley got trounced in record-setting fashion.
He then invited her supporters
to join the MAGA movement. It's worth noting Trump previously said anyone who contributes
to Haley's campaign would be, quote, permanently barred from the MAGA camp. Meanwhile, President
Biden welcomed Haley's supporters into the fold, writing in a statement, Donald Trump made it clear
he does not want Nikki Haley supporters. I want to be clear, there is a place for them in my campaign. I hope and believe we can find common ground. A Biden campaign official told NBC News
the finance teams for Biden and the Democratic National Committee recently have been reaching
out to Haley's donors. Additionally, the Biden campaign has been studying Haley's performance
in the primaries, watching those more moderate and independent voters who say they will never vote for Donald Trump.
On Super Tuesday, the Biden campaign focused on where those voters are located to target them, potentially persuade them to vote blue this November.
It was a pretty sizable margin, depending on the state, not only that voted for Nikki Haley.
We talked through some of those numbers up to obviously she won Vermont, but even in places she lost 20, 30, 40 percent of Republican voters and a big
percentage of those saying they will never vote for Donald Trump. So will they go out and vote
for Joe Biden? Will they stay home? That's what's up in the air right now. I mean, Sam, it really,
if you're an incumbent, Donald Trump basically is a three time incumbent now. A bleak, bleak message, losing 20 percent, 30 percent, 40 percent of primary voters before you go into a general election.
And yet the media seemed transfixed over the uncommitted in Michigan or Wisconsin or whatever.
The numbers were about the same as Barack Obama
before he trounced Mitt Romney.
What do you make of how each of these candidates
go into the general election?
I mean, I think they each have their own set of vulnerabilities, right?
Trump, it's fairly obvious.
Nothing's really changed in terms of the script.
He does very little to expand his coalition,
although his team would say, hey, we're trying to reach out to black Hispanic voters.
We're trying to reach out to union workers. But more or less stylistically, Trump is not going to
soften the edges. He'll assume that Republicans will go back home and he'll do very little to
try to earn over those people who gravitated to Nikki Haley because they were frustrated with
his presidency or just because they were repulsed by how it ended. With Biden, it's a different case. For him,
there's a lot of angst among the progressive base. I think that's fair to say. I think there's a lot
of angst over his handling of the Israel-Hamas war. But he has made and will continue to make
overtures to expand towards those Nikki Haley voters. And he is, as we've seen in the past couple weeks,
trying to soften his approach to the war in Gaza
in an effort to round out his support among the base.
And I just think it's stylistically,
it's like totally different presidents going at it.
And so, you know, it's to be seen
how the coalitions are built.
So Biden has to bring voters home.
He needs to bring young voters home. He needs to
bring people of color home that may have faded maybe 10, 15 percent there. Obviously, Israel,
Gaza is having an impact. What does Joe Biden need to do between now and Labor Day to start
consolidating that base.
I've thought a lot about this.
I've been traveling, talking to voters in several states,
and it's clear that he needs to be much more visible.
He needs to be talking not only about his victories, and he's got a lot of accomplishments to discuss,
but also telling voters he understands their frustration. He understands their weariness.
He understands that for some of them, the economy is not so great right now. The rent is high.
Wages still haven't caught up with inflation. He needs to speak to that. People are still paying
a lot of money in student loans. If you're a younger American,
we've talked about this on the show. If you're under 40, 45 years old, you're starting to wonder,
can I afford to have kids? Can I afford to buy that house? So he's got to really speak to those
concerns. And then, of course, he's got to be able to speak even more movingly about the plight of Palestinians, I believe, and what he's
going to do to ensure that their human rights are protected alongside Israelis. And I think he's
started to do that, but he needs to be louder. Right. And the president certainly has an
opportunity to do that tonight in the State of the Union. He's actually spoken very little about
the war in Gaza since those initial weeks of the conflict.
I think that'll change as he tries to frame exactly what's going on there.
But reports out of this morning that ceasefire talks broken down there in Cairo.
So they may not get that in place for Ramadan as they had hoped.
You know, George, you know, we've seen President, he's been on the road a little bit more lately.
He's talking to the media a little bit more.
They know that tonight's also a moment to try to show his vitality for the job.
There have been questions about that. We see the polls about his age.
And I think tonight, certainly he'll draw contrasts with Donald Trump, whether or not he mentions Trump by name.
But he also needs to make a positive case for the next four years.
And that's something that some Democrats say he hasn't really done. How would you recommend it?
Well, I just think, I mean, I agree with everything Laura said. He's got to be empathetic. He's got to be himself. He, I think at the end of the day,
he doesn't have to do a hard sell. He doesn't have to, he does have to get out there. He just
has to be normal. And the reason that's all he really has to do is Trump won in 2016 because Hillary was the issue. Trump lost in 2020 because
Trump was the issue. And in 2024, Trump will lose again because he will be the issue. He will make
himself the issue. He cannot help but make himself the issue. And what Biden needs to do is just
basically say, that guy's crazy. He doesn't have to refer to him by name. He just has
to say, the guy's nuts. Let's be normal, America. That's the theme of this campaign, I think.
To that point, Joe, Wall Street Journal op-ed page, the top GOP's third gamble on Trump.
Republicans are elevating the one man who could lose to Biden and getting in exactly what George
is saying,
that Biden may just step back and let Donald Trump do his thing.
Yeah, exactly. And by the way, it's very interesting. Let's be normal. The original
lyrics to Prince's Let's Go Crazy. Just the last second of the studio, he switched it. He said,
I think this may have a bit more of an edge. It was a good tweak. It probably was.
It's hard to dance. Let's be normal.
Unless you dance like that.
So it's crazy. It's crazy that that's where we are, that it's such a low bar to be normal.
But that's what Donald Trump does. And again, that's what Nikki Haley's
warned him about the Wall Street Journal editorial page time and time again. The Republicans have
select the only guy, the only guy that can lose. But but he can. But I think it is going to be
important. People understand people. There's just such a it's such a short attention span. I think he does have to hammer some of the
things that he's accomplished. And he does have to show the contrast. You talk about student loans.
People are frustrated. You interview people. Oh, well, he promised he was going to cut it.
You need to explain how Trump's Supreme Court actually overruled him. And he's still trying to get student loan relief.
There are black voters who are upset about the Civil Rights Act not being passed.
He needs to explain it was the it was the Senate that refused to do that.
And you can go down the long list.
I mean, it's a study of contrasts.
And in that study, you've got to line it up for the people. We did this,
they did that. We're for this, they're for that. And of course, the most dramatic example of that
is abortion rights. I mean, that is going to be the number one issue for many voters this November.
I do think that if the Biden campaign can do the job right, things are going to shift over the summer.
Most voters, you know, most general election voters are not really engaged at this point.
So over the summer, that usually changes ahead of a November election.
And once Democrats, especially younger and I believe black voters, progressive voters, nonwhite voters,
once they start seeing more of Donald Trump
and remembering what that experience was like from the escalator and talking about Mexicans
as rapists down to killing Americans in a pandemic, they probably are going to come
home, I believe, and turn out. And, you know, the anger and frustration that many of
them feel about Biden being too old in their eyes, not listening to their concerns. I do believe that
many voters at the end of the day are going to put that aside with Donald Trump on the ballot.
You just don't want to take that for granted. Right. And it is the Biden campaign's responsibility.
If the issue is Gaza to explain it. OK, yeah, we've been trying, trying to do everything we could do to get to get Netanyahu and the government to pull back.
And we're continuing to do that. By the way, the other guy is saying, just finish him off. Just finish him off. The other guy, he supported a Muslim registry. So if you were a
Muslim, you and your child would have to register with the United States government and law
authorities. He's we're on the anniversary of his revised Muslim ban. This isn't a close call. It is up to the Biden
team, though, on the campaign trail to make sure people see that very clear contrast.
And by the way, the humanitarian aid the Biden administration is trying to get into Gaza is hung
up by the House of Representatives that won't pass that immigration bill that also has foreign
aid in it. It's all connected. George Conway, always great to have here.
Just be normal.
That's our phrase of the day.
Just be normal.
Just be normal.
Thanks, George.
We've got a packed show ahead of tonight's State of the Union address.
House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries will be our guest,
as well as National Co-Chair for the Biden campaign,
Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina.
We'll also be joined by White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre.
Plus, we'll tell you about the new effort launched by former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney
to keep Donald Trump out of the White House. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back.
And here, we're playing Let's Be Norma.
Yeah. Let's go crazy.
I'm gonna let the elevator break.
...have been killed in a Houthi missile strike in the Gulf of Aden.
U.S. officials say four other people were injured in yesterday's attack, three of them now in critical condition.
In a statement, U.S. Central Command wrote in part,
these reckless attacks by the Houthis have disrupted global trade and taken the lives of international seafarers.
This marks the first death since the Houthis began launching attacks on ships over the war in Gaza.
The terrorist group says it fired missiles on the Barbados flag bulk carrier as, quote,
part of the response to the American-British aggression against our country.
The U.S. and U.K. began striking Houthi infrastructure both on land in Yemen and at sea in retaliation back in January.
Joining us now, President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass.
He is author of the weekly newsletter, Home and Away, available on Substack.
It's changed my life.
Home and Away?
It's amazing.
It does.
Reverses male pattern baldness.
It's helped my backhand.
And whatever.
What's that game you play on the small pickleball?
Who plays that?
Somebody play that. Pickleball is the hottest thing going. That's what everybody keeps telling
me. I still don't know. It's good. It's like wiffleball tennis. Why don't you just play
wiffleball or tennis? Tennis actually requires some athleticism. Okay. So speaking of wiffleball,
I'm just telling you, if we move this stuff out,
home plate's actually over here.
Yeah.
Yeah, hit this way.
That's the monster over there.
Yeah.
And one second.
This is easy.
All right, Alex, we're going to have a wiffle ball tournament in here.
When should we do that?
For opening day?
We've got four hours. We've got four hours.
We could really have a full nine inning game.
All right.
Well, okay.
There's a pitch clock. It's halfway. It's a pitch clock. All right. Well, okay.
And we can play like Nerf football championship this way.
Oh, that's fun.
Yeah.
Okay.
Check our insurance writer.
I have a lot of pent up frustration.
So Richard, home and away.
It's changed my life.
That's good.
I think your life maybe needed some change. It me listen to the pot um so what what's happening richard with the ceasefire
i think we may want to have wanted it too much or maybe i read that in home and away you might well
have uh i think the hooties aren't really interested i'm not talking about stay with me
richard i'm moving yeah you're moving it's not always what the pictures show okay sometimes you I think the Houthis aren't really interested. I'm not talking about that. Stay with me, Richard.
We're moving.
Yeah, you're moving.
It's not always what the pictures show.
Sometimes you have to listen to what I say.
Do I have to?
You do.
If you want to stay on my show.
So what about Hamas?
I think Hamas, we were talking about this before.
It's kind of hard to have a ceasefire with a terrorist organization
when the terrorist organization knows that you want the ceasefire more than they do.
And also, when you think about Hamas's, how they, their modus operandi, what do they do?
They like having, quite honestly, civilian deaths. And in this case, what would be better
than during Ramadan to put the Israelis in a situation where there are then pictures throughout the Arab world showing Muslims, Palestinians essentially being attacked during the holiest month of the year.
So from Hamas's point of view, why necessarily would a ceasefire now be desirable? Also, again,
it underscores what is, you know, Hamas took the hostages. This wasn't a sideshow. This was a
central part of their strategy. They had studied Israeli history. They saw how the hostages. This wasn't a sideshow. This was a central part of their strategy.
They had studied Israeli history. They saw how much hostages mattered to the Israeli public,
put pressure on the government. So the idea that they're going to give up what they see
as their biggest leverage, not going to happen. So I think this underscores this is a long war.
This is not about to end, whether you get a ceasefire now or some other point. At most,
it's going to be temporary. But I think, Joe, we're going to be talking about this not for
weeks, but for months or even longer. So what's left in the toolbox for the Biden administration?
Obviously, been criticized heavily for what's happening inside of Gaza, not doing enough,
put enough pressure on Prime Minister Netanyahu. They started these airdrops.
They can say that the humanitarian aid we're trying to get through is held up in the House of Representatives. What else can the president do? What might he say tonight about it?
Look, the airdrops are literally a drop in the bucket. You can't feed millions of people by
meals ready to eat. It's symbolic more than anything. I think there's questions. The most
important thing is what the president says tonight and in subsequent public statements.
Does he signal some real differences in American
foreign policy, some real distance between the United States and Israel? Does he condemn the
ongoing settlement construction in Israel, which is foreclosing diplomatic opportunities down the
road? If you say you want a two-state solution one day, well, there's less and less territory
to put into that Palestinian state. Why wouldn't he do that? Why wouldn't he do that? Why wouldn't he criticize?
Let's talk about the West Bank and call the settlements what they are, illegal settlements
that have been going on now for years, deliberately meant to undermine a two state solution. Why
shouldn't he say that in the clearest, most unequivocal terms? He absolutely should. The
United States has looked the other way too long.
And the Israelis have been doing this, doing this and this.
We should call it, you're right.
We should call it out for what it is.
And we should also start thinking about ways to back up those words.
On the previous administration, I think I have this right.
We stopped labeling goods coming out of the occupied territories as that.
We said they come from Israel.
Why don't we say they come from the occupied territories?
Why don't we say the goods produced in settlements that are exported to the United States, why don't we maybe put a special tariff on them? Why do we want to encourage
them? We should condition military aid. Why do we say if we're going to send, either we don't send
large ordnance, or we say, Israel, you can't use it in population centers. Why don't we,
President, start articulating the parameters of
a peace plan and then go to the United Nations? Why don't you, you know, Joe, for years and years
and years, the fundamental document that guided all peacemaking was UN Resolution 242 after the
Six-Day War in 67. Why don't we update it? Why doesn't the United States start articulating what
ought to be the parameters, the principles on both sides,
Palestinians and Israelis alike, that ought to shape the next year of peacemaking when it comes
to Israelis and Palestinians. And why doesn't the United States work with the Saudis, UAE,
the UAE, Jordan and other Arab neighbors who want peace there? And instead of just reacting, Jonathan, and always voting no
to somebody else's U.N. resolution, we actually put a tough one on the floor ourselves that we
can vote yes for. Yet to this point, the administration simply hasn't been willing
to cross that bridge. Maybe that will change. Why is that? The president's instinct has been
to side with Israel to this is something for decades. Well, of course, we can side with Israel, but we don't have to side with Benjamin Netanyahu doing whatever he can do to stay in office.
This is about him holding on to power.
If it had anything to do with Israeli security, these extra steps, I would be supporting him.
But this is not about Israel's security.
This is about Netanyahu's power and his security from prison.
Yeah. I mean, that's a decision from the president himself that not do that just yet.
Now, maybe that will change. Maybe that will begin the State of the Union.
Right now, though, it's the private pressure. He has not gone publicly after Netanyahu like this.
We should also note that the Israeli government says ceasefire talks will pick up again next week.
But that doesn't mean they'll be in place for Ramadan.
Richard, can we shift to Ukraine for a minute, too, which is going to be another topic tonight
from the State of the Union?
Just yesterday, a Russian missile strike in Odessa came within a couple hundred yards
of hitting President Zelensky, as well as the prime minister of Greece, a NATO country.
What does the president need to say tonight?
This Ukraine aide bogged down in the House.
Speaker Johnson is going to be perched behind him.
How does he make that case to the American people?
I don't know what he can do that he hasn't.
Traditionally in foreign policy, the executive branch,
the president has enormous leverage or latitude for better and for worse.
This is one of the rare cases you cannot do American foreign policy without the Congress.
You can't provide the aid because it's got a price tag on it.
I think it just has to keep talking about it and educate and remind people of why this matters.
And also, I think, attack the underlying isolationism.
The idea that what we're spending on this is small, that the percentage, you know, that we spend on our of our GDP,
we spend on national security is about half the Cold
War average, that our problems here at home are not because of who we're not spending.
So I think he needs to attack the isolationism writ large, make the case for American leadership
how what we've done in the world is a good investment for us.
And then I think he has to talk about Russia and Ukraine, that if we don't do something
here, we're undermining the cause of freedom, we're undermining the reputation of the United States, and we're sending Vladimir Putin
the signal that Europe is his. And I think the president ought to talk in really stark terms
about this. Richard, many Americans, going back to Gaza for a moment, many Americans are frustrated
and want to see President Biden take a much harder line with Bibi Netanyahu.
Yet, as Jonathan pointed out a moment ago, he's chosen, the president has chosen to take a more
private route. Is there any sign that that private pressure is working? How do you measure that?
The only thing we've seen at the margins is the Israelis have allowed a little bit of aid in.
But to answer your question, essentially not. I just think it's hard. You know, Joe asked a second ago, why isn't the
administration being tougher? I think it's hard psychologically for the president, generationally.
He is of an age. He came into politics half a century ago. I get it. Israel was still David.
It wasn't Goliath. It was right. Joe Biden became a senator just a couple of years
after the Six-Day
War. Israel was seen as, you know, you had all the Arab armies against it. I think it's hard for him
to pivot in many ways where Israel is seen in a lot of the country, a lot of the world now,
more as Goliath rather than David. I think it's tough. And it's just.
Well, again, think about the time. You had 67. You had 72 in Munich. You had the PLO assassinating the Israeli Olympic athletes.
You had 73. And so that was bam, bam, bam for a lot of people of that age and some of us younger.
The first impression of what are Palestinians? That was the frame. That was the framing.
And I will tell you, that was the framework for for decades.
Exactly. And he lives under that frame. Well, there's a generational thing, I think.
But for people in their 20s and 30s, the only thing they've really known, Joe, is Bibi Netanyahu.
Right. And Israeli government that's not interested in peacemaking is interested in settlement building, that it's attacking civilians really in a cavalier way. So there's a real
generational divide, which is, again, what worries me. If you care about Israel and you care about
this relationship, how short sighted is this Israeli government? Well, well, it's Benjamin
Netanyahu again, in large part, the same Benjamin Netanyahu who knew where their illegal funding was
from in 2018. Look the other way. And again, I can't say this enough. That guy on the screen sent his representative to Doha and Qatar said, do you want us to continue
giving Hamas funding three weeks before the attacks? And Netanyahu's government said,
yes, they had the secret attack plans a year before. They had, as you said before,
last time you're on, they had warning that it was coming, that Hamas terrorists were throwing away
their SIM cards. They were preparing for battle. They did absolutely nothing. Took 10 hours,
in some cases, to go rescue women that were being raped, children that were being brutalized, parents that were being shot in front of their kids, grandparents, people being burned.
It's time to bridge that gap, Willie, because I will tell you, if you love Israel, if you believe that Israel needs to exist, then then you have to worry about the severe damage Benjamin Netanyahu is
doing to the cause of Israel in the United States with younger Americans in Europe and across the
world. Yeah, we're feeling it in this country now. President Biden's feeling that pressure as this
debate goes on. Those hostages are toiling now into their fifth and six months and the suffering
in Gaza continues. Richard Haass, thank you very much.
Always good to see you, Mara.
Thank you as well.
Still ahead, we now have a verdict in the Rust movie trial
for the armorer who handed Alec Baldwin a loaded gun,
which led to the fatal shooting of a cinematographer on set.
MSNBC legal analyst Danny Savalos joins us next.
A picture of the White House at 653 in the morning.
President getting ready for his State of the Union address tonight.
A New Mexico jury has found the armorer for the movie Rust guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
26-year-old Hannah Gutierrez-Reed now faces up to 18 months in state prison.
The nearly two-week criminal trial centered on the accidental shooting on the Rust film set in 2021. The film's cinematographer, Helena Hutchins, was killed by a live round of ammunition from a prop gun held by Alec Baldwin.
Baldwin has claimed he did not pull the trigger.
Baldwin faces involuntary manslaughter charges as well.
His trial is set for July.
Let's bring in MSNBC legal analyst Danny Savalas.
Danny, good morning.
So any surprise here with this verdict, number one and number two?
What does it mean for Alec Baldwin later this year?
Yes and no.
I thought the state's case, generally speaking, this was not a strong case.
But if there was a stronger case, it was against the armor.
She was acquitted of the tampering with evidence.
That also was not a surprise because really the sum of the evidence was somebody saw a bag of a white powdery substance that was never tested.
And that was supposedly cocaine. Not a surprise,
an acquittal there. But here's the thing. A guilty verdict for the armor is good for Alec Baldwin.
An acquittal for the armor would have been good for Alec Baldwin as well. There are a couple
reasons why. Number one, Alec Baldwin's team has now gotten a free look at the entire theory of
liability against the armor and a lot of the state's evidence.
So no matter what, that's a win.
But a guilty verdict here means that Alec Baldwin's team can basically take the state's case
and make it their own as they point at other people responsible,
whether it's the armor who was just found guilty,
whether it's Dave Halls who took a plea agreement,
who had responsibility for safety on the set,
whether it's the supplier who supposedly supplied the props and the equipment and allegedly, according to the defense here, possibly even the live round. So that's all good for Alec Baldwin
in this case. And acquittal just would have meant that the overall case wasn't that strong,
because if they couldn't convict the armor, how are they going to convict the actor?
So Alec Baldwin, we can refresh our viewers viewers memories, looked like he was going to be in some criminal trouble here. Then they dropped the charges. Right. And now they're coming back.
They've indicted him on involuntary manslaughter. Anyone I've talked to, however you feel about
Alec Baldwin, who's worked on a movie set or from Hollywood, says it is not the job of the actor
to know what's in the gun that he was handed it is not the job of the actor to know what's
in the gun that he was handed. It's the job of the armorer to assure you that this is what I have.
I'm going to show you what's in the chamber. These are not live rounds of ammunition. So
what does the case against him look like? Alec Baldwin's case, defense case, is a strong one for
so many different reasons. Number one, the reason you just said an actor on a movie set,
that is probably the one place where you could say that the rules of gun safety are a little
different. And everyone who handles a gun learns the number one rule is you never point a gun
at something you don't want to destroy. But on a movie set, a gun is not a gun. A gun is a prop.
A gun is a toy. I don't say that. I don't want to sound glib because
guns are not toys. But if you're told something is not a gun and you're handed it and you're an
actor, then you're entitled to believe that it is not a gun. If this was a science fiction movie
set in the future and you were handed a ray gun, you would similarly be able to believe it's not
going to shoot a laser once I pull the trigger. So the biggest witness against Alec Baldwin in his case is Alec Baldwin. Let me tell you why.
He gave an interview where he made two really, really bad statements. Number one was that I
didn't pull the trigger. You didn't need to say that. But central in this case that was not
central in this case is going to be a lot of technical stuff about how these long colts have
a half cock, have a full cock, and what happens, whether the trigger can be pulled. That's going
to be a big factor. But I think worse for Alec Baldwin is when he said, I, as a smart actor,
know that I would never, never, never, never point a gun at anyone. This was really stupid.
And I'll tell you why. Because he should have sat back on the idea of I'm just a dumb actor.
If you could imagine if this was a 12 year old actor on some other set, they would never be blamed for thinking that a prop handed to them that they were told was not a gun was not a gun.
But now Alec Baldwin's on record saying, oh, I would never, never point a gun at someone and pull the trigger.
Bad idea. Instead, say, look, me, just gun at someone and pull the trigger. Bad idea.
Instead, say, look, me, just actor, me, know nothing.
OK, that sounds like a defense.
The prosecutors, the prosecution does seem to have it out for him.
Even in this trial, they're calling Baldwin a prima donna who ignored the rules of a movie
set and didn't listen, et cetera, et cetera.
So we'll see how that goes when his trial comes up in July.