Morning Joe - Morning Joe 3/9/23

Episode Date: March 9, 2023

White House rebukes Fox News over Jan. 6 portrayal

Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Thursday, March 9th, and we have a lot to cover this morning. President Joe Biden calling out Fox News for a misleading narrative about January 6th from one of its primetime hosts. Plus, a Republican congressman accused of giving tours days before the attack on the Capitol will now lead an investigation into the January 6th committee. Also ahead, Ron DeSantis tries to debunk what he calls myths about his education policy. But his presentation of the facts seemed to fall flat. We'll show you what happened and we'll have legal analysis on the DOJ's report on the Louisville Police Department. A lot to get to along with Joe, Willie and me. We have

columnist and associate editor for The Washington Post, David Ignatius, Washington bureau chief for the USA Today, Susan Page and the host of way too early White House bureau chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire. We have a lot to get to, Amika, but first, I just love to hear you talk a little bit about what happened last night. Yesterday, of course, iconic interviews with really women who made a huge difference over the past 50 years. But that day of iconic interviews turned into an evening of really history making speeches. And I must say, at times, just speeches that took your breath away, made the audience members cry. It was it was extraordinary. You know, it was a really beautiful event on so many levels, so many different cultures and generations coming together. That was the point of the summit,

to have cross-cultural, cross-generational mentoring. But we also saw legends of our time, women who have truly changed the world, getting around a woman who didn't, didn't, it wasn't a choice, but she is in the position of being a woman who is changing the world. And that is Elena Zelenska. And to have her in Abu Dhabi, this was last night at the Louvre with Gloria Steinem, Billie Jean King, Hillary Clinton, and so many others getting behind her and celebrating her, but also celebrating these legends. There were many messages that came out of last night, but the most important one was, and especially on International Women's Day, is that women can change the world. And together, I think we made a little bit of history. Well, you really did. It was Willie. It was just an absolutely remarkable evening, a remarkable day.

And I must say, and I'd be curious what David Ignatius thinks of this as well. But first, Willie, to you on this. As we sat down yesterday, Mika interviewed, of course, Elena Zelinski, yesterday morning here and last night at the event, sitting there with Hillary Clinton, with her, with others, I was struck, and so was Mika, by how young she was. I always remembered a photographer taking a picture of John Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy together and commenting on. They were stunned. The photographer said, oh, my God, young men, young men's hair. And as as we saw her and talked to her yesterday, I thought, my God, what has been thrust on on this woman and her husband and the people of Ukraine. But I must tell you, there's just a remarkable display.

She proved herself to be an extraordinary goodwill ambassador. Not only did this event, but also meeting with the leader of this country and others around. It really it is it is remarkable what the Zelenskys are doing. It is remarkable. And it's remarkable that she was even there and that she wanted to be a part of that, given that her country's in the middle of a war, that she would take the time and the effort, clearly the effort with everything that comes along with her traveling, to go and be a part of this. It was extraordinary to see her on that panel yesterday. And I hear that there is a an even more extraordinary. I'll let you characterize it better, Mika,

but interview coming with you and Ms. Zelenska and with Hillary Clinton talking about this war, talking everything that's her country has gone through in the last year or so, much more than that, actually. So we really look forward to hearing that. But just to have her there as a presence, along with all those other iconic women, really gives this an urgency, this event that you're hosting, Mika. Well, there's no doubt, Mika, that she was here to deliver a message, not only to the people in that audience, but also to the people of this country, to the people of the world, to this region. And she did it. Yeah. And I think Hillary Clinton and the many, many incredible women here wanted to make sure they put a frame around her, but also to so many other women

who have made such a difference in the fight for equal pay, equal rights, and all the different fights around the world. Everything was aired out at this summit here in Abu Dhabi, which proved itself to be, once again, the crossroads of the world where you really could have such an intersection, where these conversations were happening and really happening. And also, everyone just seemed so happy. I think the lineup and the way these women came to the table to really talk about things, it was an incredibly joyful event, even given the many challenges that women face around the world. We'll have much more ahead. We'll get now to the news and more on 3050 a little later.

Yesterday, we showed you a number of Republican senators, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, criticizing Fox News over how one of its primetime hosts has portrayed the January 6th attack on the Capitol using select footage from the day provided by House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. Yesterday, President Biden joined those Republicans in speaking out against Fox News for allowing that whitewashing of the insurrection. The president tweeted more than 140 officers were injured on January 6th. I've said before, how dare anyone diminish or deny the hell they went through. I stand with the Capitol Police. I hope House Republicans feel ashamed for what was done to undermine our law enforcement. A White House spokesman also released a statement saying, quote, we agree with the chief of the Capitol Police and the wide range of bipartisan lawmakers who

have condemned this false depiction of the unprecedented violent attack on our Constitution and the rule of law which cost police officers their lives. Willie? And an important part of this story is that it all comes against the backdrop of a $1.6 billion defamation suit against Fox News by Dominion Voting Systems. As part of that suit's discovery process, hundreds of pages of evidence, including full excerpts of testimony from depositions, along with text messages and emails, have been published, providing an inside look at how network executives and hosts not only knew claims the 2020 election was rigged were false, but that they had open

contempt for former President Trump. Now, Trump and his son, Don Jr., have taken to attacking the network in recent weeks, with the former president going after Fox chairman Rupert Murdoch by name, while his son, Don Jr., has accused executives of the network of harboring an America last war forever garbage fold to the Democrats agenda. That's a quote from Don Jr. there. Joe, it remains perplexing that some parts of Fox News, but mostly that Republicans in the Congress and that former President Trump want to reopen this wound of January 6th and revisit it and give President Biden and give the rest of the country who believes its own eyes the opportunity to relitigate that terrible day. Well, and it's just so stupid politically. We've said it here day in and day out.

Republicans, and I guarantee you that Republicans in the Senate that are being critical, even Lindsey Graham accusing them and other people of whitewashing the news. It is so stupid for Republicans. They're splitting their party in half. They're turning voters that had voted Republican their entire lives against them. And now you're seeing actually the 45th president and the 46th president attacking the same news network. And, you know, my gosh, this is this is sort of an ideological, a political civil war, Jonathan Lemire, where where you now have Donald Trump attacking Fox News and Fox News hosts heaping extraordinary contempt, extraordinary contempt against the ex-president. Yeah, it's been extraordinary to see because we're getting

met looks now at these text messages that were sent in real time, that were sent during the final days of the Trump administration, during his effort to have the election overturned in the wake in November, December, and then, of course, around January 6th. And I think it just shows in full display the hypocrisy and the lies that Fox News hosts would say one thing on air, say that Donald Trump had a case to make, that the election may have been stolen, and then off air suggests that, of course, they knew that he was lying. And we should keep that in mind as we consider what one Fox News host in particular in the evening is doing to try to downplay what happened on January 6th. And I think, Joe and Mika and Willie, it will be useful to go through some of these text messages. The New York Times has reported from one host in particular, Mr. Carlson, in the evening.

He has said these things about Donald Trump per the lawsuit with Dominion. He said that Trump is good at destroying things. He's an undisputed world champion of that. He has said that on Biden's decision to skip, on Trump's decision to skip Biden's inauguration, it's disgusting. I'm trying to look away. He has badmouthed Sidney Powell, of course, who was Donald Trump's lawyer at the time, he said that he hates Trump passionately. I hate him passionately. And then he said this, Willie. He called Tucker Carlson, called Donald Trump a demonic force, a Joe, a destroyer. But he's not going to destroy us.

I've been thinking about this every day for four years. He said, we've got two weeks left. We can do this. That was sent on January 6th. And again, I think it's so instructive to pull back the curtain here and see what he thought in real time while he said something so very different on air and continues to push those lies to this very day. Well, it's nothing new for supporters of Donald Trump. We've been talking for years about, for those four years that he was saying he worried about every day, we've been talking about members of the House, members of the Senate, Republican leaders throughout the states, heaping contempt on Donald Trump behind the scenes, saying how much they hated him,

Republicans saying how much they loathed him, Republicans saying how ill suited he was for the presidency. And then the camera lights would turn on and they would lie to their voters. They would lie to their constituents. And David Ignatius, what is so extraordinary here is it's all out in the open. right? And it's all, we've known this for forever because you've talked to Republican leaders, as have I through the years, who would heap contempt on Donald Trump behind the scenes, but never say it publicly. They would tell their base what they thought their base wanted to hear. Now we have this extraordinary moment in American democracy where you have the majority of one party actually being fed lies and actually believing those lies and spreading those lies,

not only about an American election, an American presidential election that even the biggest disinformation broadcasters are saying was won by Joe Biden. But they're not only lying about that, but now they're lying in the middle of a lawsuit, for God's sake, in the middle of a lawsuit about what happened on January 6th and the brave law enforcement officers, the cops who were beaten up, beaten within inches of their lives and lying about cops who lost their lives. David, it's just it's extraordinary. How does a political party continue to exist based around these toxic lies that are now being shouted from the mountaintops. You know, Joe, political parties are unfortunately pretty good at living with hypocrisy. And as you say, we've seen that two faced approach from Republicans through the Trump years. Like you, I've heard so many Republicans in private criticize what he's doing, express concern about its effects on the country

and then go right out in public and support him because they're afraid, they're afraid of their base. What's striking about the Dominion lawsuit is that we're seeing that hypocrisy baked into what's supposedly a news network. And seeing some of this testimony and depositions, you realize, I hate to say it, how far Fox has strayed from being a reliable source of news. People say things in private that are accurate, honest assessments of Trump, and then go on the air and make claims that are divisive of the country. You have a sense that, like the Republican politicians you and I were talking about, Fox is chasing what it imagines its viewers, the public on the right, want to hear. And that's just never a good position.

And I wonder how Fox is going to recover from this if Rupert Murdoch and others really want the network to become more stable again after the Trump period. Joe mentioned Senator Lindsey Graham. Here's what he said yesterday. Quote, this is Lindsey Graham saying, I don't want to be part of any day. I don't want to take any part in whitewashing January 6th. It wasn't a stroll to the Capitol. It was an attack on our Capitol. The people involved in violence should go to jail, said Lindsey Graham yesterday, saying again, it was not a peaceful day. Let's bring in staff writer at The Atlantic, Mark Leibovich. Mark, you've spent a lot of time covering Fox News. You've written about Fox News

in your most recent book as well. What do you make of this? I guess it's not terribly surprising, but to see it all in black and white, because we know, having covered these politicians for so long, what they say in private and what they then go out and say in public about Donald Trump are usually 180 degrees. But what do you make of these releases, particularly in the Dominion lawsuit, I mean, we've seen this hypocritical two-step, you know, in the Republican Party really baked into it since Trump came on in a really large form. I mean, obviously, like he said, I mean, hypocrisy is nothing new in American politics in either party. But just the level has really been ramped up. And also, around the election, around January 6th, around really everything since then, litigating everything from even the text messages and the emails that came out around the January 6th committee, we saw a lot of the same trepidation, a lot of the same really hypocrisy, two-facedness that we're seeing around these Dominion suits and the emails and the discovery that's come

around from that. Again, it's so striking to see ostensibly a news organization go through this. Again, I don't think it'll affect their bottom line too much unless Dominion wins. Dominion could very well win this suit. It's a $1.6 billion lawsuit, which could really hurt and it could have a lot of ripples. But ultimately, their ratings, I assume, have been pretty high over the last few years. They probably will continue to be. For the most part, the viewers are not getting this news. We are talking here, it's clear as day to anyone who's following this story, but the

vast majority of people who are watching Fox all day are not following this story because they're not getting it from Fox. So ultimately, I mean, it's it's just the the information ghetto just gets narrower and narrower and narrower. And again, I mean, you know, I'm sort of sick of asking how these people live with themselves. But but ultimately, this is the central dynamic of the Republican Party, of so much of the right of the Trump kingdom, of Fox, of so many entities that have sort of dominated the right over the last several years. And Susan Page Marks, exactly right. It's the same dynamic at play here, isn't it, that you have Republican members of Congress, Republican politicians afraid of their own base.

So that's why they won't criticize Donald Trump. And you see again in black and white in these emails and text messages, hosts at Fox News afraid of their own viewers saying we got to feed them what they want. We don't believe any of this stuff, but our numbers are dipping here around January 6th, around the inauguration of President Biden. We got to get back on board with what our viewers want. Let's feed them things that we know are not true. And, you know, what's extraordinary is that the only people in America who watch news and aren't aware of these remarkable disclosures from the Dominion lawsuit are Fox viewers, because it's a story that Fox is not covering. Howie Kurtz, Fox's longtime media critic, said he has been told he is not allowed to cover that story. So it's not as though they are the network is apparently abashed by the revelations that we've seen come out from this lawsuit.

By the way, I think it's pretty hard to whitewash an event that we all saw in real time on television, which is what happened on January 6th. Yeah. A group of House Republicans is going after the committee that investigated the deadly January 6th attack on the Capitol. The GOP-led House administration's subcommittee on oversight is launching an investigation into the Democrat-led January 6th committee that expired when Democrats lost control of the House in January. The Republican probe will look into whether key information about the insurrection was left out from the high profile probe, along with analyzing how the January 6th panel conducted its investigation. To that end, the subcommittee has launched an online portal to collect tips from the public. Republican Congressman Barry Loudermilk of Georgia will lead the

investigation. The January 6th committee accused Loudermilk of giving tours of the Capitol complex in the days leading up to the riot. Video footage showed Loudermilk guiding a tour of House office buildings during a time when the complex was closed off to visitors because of pandemic restrictions. The January 6th committee alleged that a man seen taking photos on Loudermilk's tour later posted the photos online. The same man then apparently posted videos inside the Capitol on January 6th in which he is heard threatening Senator Chuck Schumer, then House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Congressman Jerry Nadler, and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Loudermilk initially denied giving any tour, but when more evidence came out, he then denied any wrongdoing. He has

since denied that the group he was leading was using the tour to inspect the facility ahead of the riot. Right, right before the riots. And Jonathan O'Meara, again, you wrote the book on this, on the big lie leading up to the riot and the riots. Here you have, again, another Republican that just flat out lied, got caught lying about about what he did. I mean, it reminds me so much of the the Georgia Republican who was was there with the guards trying to keep the mob out. I forget the guy's name, but they had guns drawn and he's pushing, trying to keep the mob out from killing members of Congress on the floor. And then he gets scared a couple of weeks later and starts talking about

how they were just tourists. It was just another day of tourists at the Capitol, which, of course, you take this all the way to the top and you've got Kevin McCarthy, who, of course, released this security footage that everybody's talking about right now, who was screaming at Donald Trump at the top of his lungs on January the 6th, saying you're responsible for it. It was Kevin McCarthy who attacked Donald Trump on the floor, saying he was responsible for those riots, who is now, of course, backing down, again, for the same reason that all these other things are happening.

It all comes down to cowardice, and in this case, cowardice comes at a horrific price to American democracy. Yeah, and the first example of that post-January 6th cowardice came from McCarthy when price to American democracy. Yeah. And the first example of that post January 6th cowardice came from McCarthy when he went to Mar-a-Lago a couple weeks later. And as I wrote the news in my book, he didn't just go. He apologized to Donald Trump, apologized to Trump for that harsh phone call on January 6th. And Trump's rehabilitation began in that very moment. And we're seeing that now. And we're seeing it still on the airwaves and Fox News trying to rehabilitate Trump or downplay what happened

in January 6th. Even as there are some voices there who think the party should turn the page, most of it still wants to still be holding to Trump's base, fearful of Trump's base, their viewer. And then, of course, in Congress, you're seeing Congressman Loudermilk here, whose word we, of course, cannot take because he has lied repeatedly about what happened on January 6th, taking another moment here as part of this Republican effort to investigate the investigators. This is the same with the investigation of the Committee to Weaponize Government. So much of what the House GOP is trying to do right now, which, mind you, out of step with what the American people say they want them to do.

But they're all about alleging deep space conspiracies, trying to prop up and whitewash what happened with Donald Trump and speak to a narrower and narrower part of their own electorate. So, Joe, one more note on this as we talk about the politics of it and the wisdom or lack thereof of Republicans reopening this wound and talking about it publicly. There's now a group of Republicans led by Marjorie Taylor Greene planning a visit to the prison where some of these men and women are being held, people who beat up cops, treating them like political prisoners. She went in 2021 and said it was like seeing prisoners of war, men with tears streaming down their faces, just feeding any Democrat, just feeding the president of the United States, just feeding anyone who wants it more materially on this terrible, terrible day in American history and treating it like she and the people in prison are the real victims. I just, again, you can't make so tired of asking who are these people?

You can't. Well, they're idiots who are doing what's not in the best interest of their party, not in the best interest of democracy, not in the best interest of this country. But it is extraordinary. Again, every day we see one example after another example after another example of these people out of control and doing things that are hurting their own party, doing things that are hurting the conservative cause. And yes, like I said before, doing things that hurt this country to investigate the investigators. They tried this with the Durham investigation. It blew up in his face time and time again. I mean, this guy was humiliated and now they're doing it again. They're investigating the investigators. It is it is a clown show. And again, you have to wonder what Republicans who actually want to win elections in 2024 are thinking. Well, even before that,

they're wasting the time and the money and the honor of their jobs. And they are wasting the American people's time with this garbage, with fake investigations, with gesticular politics, just fake, ridiculous pushing of the envelope on conspiracies. Well, and when there's real work that needs to be done. Think about cops getting beaten up with American flags. Think about cops who lost their lives after January the 6th. And their families believe and the police force believes for injuries sustained on January the 6th. And you actually have Republicans embracing the rioters. You actually have Republicans embracing the rioters. You actually have Republicans embracing the insurrectionists. You actually have Republicans saying that this sort of behavior in America that you're watching on your screen right now,

where American flags, the generations of men and women have fought and died to protect and defend the ideals of that flag and the Constitution of the United States states those flags being used to beat up cops you got a network whitewashing that to beat up cops to try to overturn a peaceful election i i i don't i shouldn't have to explain this to people that have an IQ of more than like 40 or 50. I shouldn't have to explain this to them. Right. This is simple stuff. You can't be on the side of rioters. You can't be on the side of mobs that want to overturn a peaceful election. You can't be on the side of insurrectionists. And yet, Mika, they are. Well, before we go to break, we want to share some news that we've been following overnight about Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

He's hospitalized after falling at a Washington, D.C. hotel last night. Now, according to a spokesperson, McConnell, who's 81 years old, tripped during a private dinner. He was admitted to the hospital where he's receiving treatment. No immediate details are being released about his condition. We're going to bring you updates as we learn that. And of course, we wish him the very best and hope for a very speedy recovery for Senator Mitch McConnell. And still add on morning, Joe, the latest from Ukraine following a new series of Russian missile attacks targeting critical infrastructure across the war-torn

country. Plus, the Justice Department issues a scathing rebuke of the Louisville Police Department after an investigation into the death of Breonna Taylor in 2020. Also ahead, Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren is our guest this morning. We'll ask her about the budget fight playing out on Capitol Hill. And as we go to break, here is Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin, who served as a member of the House Select Committee that investigated January 6th, speaking on the House floor yesterday against the disinformation being spread about what actually happened the day of the Capitol attack. All starts, of course, with January 6th and before that, the presidential election.

All starts with a big lie. Donald Trump's big lie. Well, they say, well, who knows? Maybe he won. Maybe he didn't. You say Joe Biden's president. We say Donald Trump's president. Nonsense. 60 federal state courts rejected every claim of electoral fraud and corruption that they put forward. 60 federal and state courts rejected every claim. They don't have a single court that ever ruled in their favor. Donald Trump lost that election by more than 7 million votes, 306 to 232 in the Electoral College. So then their big lie now has to stretch all the way over January 6th. We have to disbelieve the evidence of our own eyes, of our own ears.

We saw them come and descend upon this chamber, this Congress, wounding and injuring 150 of our police officers, breaking people's noses, breaking people's fingers, putting people in the hospital. And already they're back on the news with big lies saying, no, no, no, it was a tourist visit.

Like these real tourists up here who have to come and watch representatives of the United States Congress say there's no difference between truth and lies. Real tourists who are not beating the daylights out of our police officers you don't want to do or some like that you say no problemo and if someone comes off to you with an attitude you say eat me and if you want to shine them on, it's hasta la vista, baby. Hasta la vista, baby.

Why are we showing you a clip from Terminator 2? Let's answer that question. Mark Leibovich still with us. His recent profile in The Atlantic titled Arnold Schwarzenegger's last act. What happens when the Terminator turns 75? Mark, it's such a typically great piece from you. I was reading it last night, the detail in there, the image of the two of you speeding through red lights on your bicycles

through Santa Monica, just great stuff. So tell me what interested you about visiting Arnold Schwarzenegger in the first place at this point in his life? Well, he turned 75 this year or last year, and I was struck by that. I mean, this is someone who is so entrenched in the American mythology in sports as a bodybuilder, as just this box office legend, as someone who got into politics and was elected governor of the biggest state in the country on his first try. And he's one of these very few people who, as he's proven in the last few years, can talk to pretty much every corner of the world. I mean, he tried to make an appeal to the Russian people, to Vladimir Putin after the invasion last year. He has now made a video this week trying to appeal to neo-Nazis saying, don't go down the path you're going to. Arnold's father was a Nazi. He fought in Hitler's army in World War II.

Arnold came up in the shadow of that. I went with Arnold all over the world. We went to Auschwitz last summer. We went biking in Santa Monica. I went to Gold's Gym. We did the whole Hollywood thing. He's just this extraordinary and really singular specimen of American life. And look, he's getting old.

All of his friends are dying. It was just sort of a striking moment of sort of getting to spend a few months in the shadow of someone who was just like larger than life in the most true sort of almost literal sense of America. One of the most extraordinary profiles I've ever worked on and one of the most extraordinary American lives I've ever sort of. I noticed winter stage, you were quick to point out that you bench pressed more than Arnold Schwarzenegger when you were pushing weight. Jim, important detail, important detail there. But sort of the thread and the theme of the piece is that he's always looked for the next thing. Incredibly ambitious.

OK, he's a bodybuilder. He's going to be Mr. Olympia. He does that. OK, now what's next? Huge Hollywood star, biggest star in the world for a long time. What's next? Politics becomes the governor of California. And now he's sort of hit a wall of it's not clear what's next. What does he do from here? Right. I mean, what's interesting is that in the last few years, in a weird kind of ironic way, the Trump years have given him a purpose. I mean, he has put out these little viral videos during the pandemic, after January 6th, after Charlottesville, after the Russian invasion, and even again this week, sort of his anti-hate videos that have gone remarkably viral. And he has, in this time when there's really no political center at all, kind of taken it upon himself and sort of like Trump in some ways, leverage celebrity, but not for the

toxic, divisive ways that Trump has. I mean, you know, Arnold has sort of been on the right side of a lot of common sense issues and very core sort of American and global decency issues over the last few years. And that's sort of become a platform for him. And like so many things in this sort of quirky social media world, who saw it coming? But Arnold has this sort of unmatched authority. And all of a sudden, he starts showing up at Auschwitz. And then all of a sudden, he's sort of washing his hands and teaching people how to get through their pandemic days. And he's kind of all of a sudden in this weird way everywhere all at once

again. He sort of found himself, as you write in the piece, with social media, giving him a presence and a voice again. There's so much in here. It's a great piece, as you'd expect from Mark. The Atlantic's Mark Leibovich pieces up right now. Mark, great to see you. Thanks, William. Turning overseas, a series of missile and drone attacks struck a number of major cities overnight in Ukraine. Five people were killed in the western region of Lviv after a rocket struck a number of major cities overnight in Ukraine. Five people were killed in

the western region of Lviv after a rocket struck a residential area. One person was killed in a missile strike near the city of Dnipro. In the capital of Kiev, two large explosions were reported about an hour apart that injured at least two people. The city official says the attacks in the capital included cruise missiles and Iranian-made drones. Kiev's mayor says the attacks in the capital included cruise missiles and Iranian-made drones. Kyiv's mayor says the explosions triggered a power outage for about 15 percent of the city. Meanwhile, in the port city of Odessa, missiles struck energy infrastructure and residential buildings. In Ukraine's northeastern city of Kharkiv, a city official says 15 missiles struck buildings there as well. In total, the Ukrainian military reports 81 missiles and eight drones were fired overnight and into early this morning, with 34 of those missiles

being shot down. So, David Ignatius, this is the most missiles, the most aggressive attack we've seen in some time, particularly in places like Kiev and Odessa, where we haven't seen this in a while. What do you make of the timing from Russia here? Well, this is a spasm of violence. The reports are that the Russians actually used six hypersonic missiles, which are the most advanced in their arsenal in this wave of attacks. You can only think that the Russians are trying ever more desperately to intimidate the people of Ukraine, just as they're trying on the front lines in Bakhmut, throwing wave after wave of prisoners who were just put in there to die to try to clear lanes in this trench warfare. So in the skies, the Russians keep throwing missiles that really are anti-civilian weapons, whether they're trying to take out the power stations or other targets. I think it's a sign that Putin is determined to try to subdue the Ukrainians,

to persist in what has been so far a completely unsuccessful campaign against the government. He's continuing. There's no sign he's prepared to negotiate yet. The idea that he would use these hypersonic missiles against a smaller country pounded after so many months of bombardment is to me astonishing. Hey, David, it's Jonathan. When you speak to your sources there at the Pentagon and elsewhere in the government, what's their level of concern about what they're seeing in Bakhmut? Not that Russia might take that town, but that rather it's a pretty strategically unimportant city, and Ukraine is using a lot of resources in its defense. And there's been some chatter that it could sap their ability to really mount a major counteroff resources in its defense. And there's been some chatter that it could sap their ability

to really mount a major counteroffensive in the spring. What's the latest you're hearing there as to what the U.S. thinks that Ukraine's going to be able to do? So, Jonathan, as always, responsive U.S. officials is to say these are decisions for Ukraine and its commanders. I did note that Jake Sullivan, our national security advisor, and General Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, just talked in the last 24 hours with the commander of Ukrainian forces and the presidential chief of staff. I'm sure they're talking in part about the situation in Bakhmut.

Former General Austin, our secretary of Defense, has suggested that a tactical redeployment, in effect a retreat in Bakhmut, may make sense. This is so important symbolically that President Zelensky has decided he wants to stay and fight at least a while longer. Whether that's sensible in military terms, given, as you say, what a trivial strategic position Bakhmut is, is certainly subject to question. But the symbolic importance today is enormous. Yeah, this widespread attack just in the last 12 hours will accelerate calls for the United States to provide more support. The Ukrainian Air Force tweeting just within the last hour, we need F-16s.

David Ignatius, thank you very much. Ahead in our next hour, we'll speak with White House National Security Spokesman John Kirby on this and much more. And ahead this hour, we'll explain why the city of Memphis is delaying the release of new documents and video in the Tyree Nichols case. And MSNBC legal analyst Charles Coleman will join us to break down the Justice Department's review of the Louisville Police Department. Morning Joe's coming right back. And to President Putin, I say, you started this war. You are leading this war. You can stop this war. Now, let me close with a message to all of the Russians who have been protesting on the streets against the invasion of Ukraine. The world has seen your bravery.

We know that you have suffered the consequences of your courage. You have been arrested, you have been jailed, and you've been beaten. You are my new heroes. Justice has finished now its two-year review of the Louisville Police Department. The investigation into police practices was launched after the 2020 shooting death of Breonna Taylor. Authorities yesterday outlined systemic problems within the department, including years of discrimination. NBC News national correspondent Miguel Almaguer has details. The scathing report from the Department of Justice unveiled a damning assessment of the Louisville Metro Police Department,

saying LMPD has long engaged in a troubling pattern of discriminatory law enforcement practices, investigators from the DOJ cited serious unlawful abuses, especially against black people. Some officers have demonstrated disrespect for the people they are sworn to protect. Some have videotaped themselves throwing drinks at pedestrians from their cars, insulted people with disabilities, and called black people monkeys, animal, and boy. This conduct is unacceptable. The troubling 86-page report cites uses of excessive force, unjustified neck restraints, and the unreasonable use of police dogs and tasers. Officers also conducted searches based on invalid warrants, unlawfully stopped, searched, and detained citizens, and violated the rights of people engaged in protected speech

critical of policing. The U.S. Attorney General specifically cited a specialized unit originally called VIPER. The unit's activities were part of an overall enforcement approach that resulted in significant and unlawful racial disparities. The two-year review into LMPD was launched after the 2020 shooting death of Breonna Taylor. The botched raid in which Taylor was not a suspect helped expose what federal authorities now call a pattern or practice of conduct that deprives people of their rights. I don't even know what to think to know that this this thing shouldn't have ever happened and that it took three years for anybody else to say that he shouldn't have. The failure to protect and serve at the cost

of community trust. Miguel Almaguer reporting there. Let's bring in MSNBC legal analyst Charles Coleman. Charles, good morning. It's good to see you. So here's the review. Here's the assessment of what's wrong. Now what? What happens as a result of this? That's a great question, Willie. What Merrick Garland talked about when he did this press conference yesterday is that there's now going to be a independent monitor that will oversee a consent decree with respect to the police department. And Louisville Metro Police Department is going to be responsible for fulfilling certain targets within that consent decree. And the independent monitor will basically ensure that this takes place. Now, to be honest with you, that goes far, but it does not go far enough. We have seen this movie before, and I'm skeptical on how it will end.

Consent decrees can only go as far as they are written on paper in terms of changing culture. But what we're talking about here is systemic, and there are no individual officers that I am aware of have been charged with respect to the wrongdoing that were that came from the report. The significance there is that qualified immunity still serves as a shield of accountability. And that is a big problem and a barrier to culture change when you're talking about law enforcement in America. And that's been a big hang up in any legislation in the Congress with a lot of members of Congress saying we're not going to get rid of qualified immunity. That's held up some of the proposed legislation. How significant is it that the Justice Department, that the national, the United States Department of Justice, took this on to maybe put down a marker,

not just in Louisville, but for other police departments of what it will and will not tolerate? Well, it is hugely significant. And I do have to acknowledge Kristen Clark and her work at the DOJ Civil Rights Division, because this is not something that was being done previously. And I do have to acknowledge Kristen Clark and her work at the DOJ Civil Rights Division, because this is not something that was being done previously. And it makes a very, very strong statement. The other thing that makes a strong statement is that the pattern or practice designation legally says a whole lot about what this means systemically about what was going on. This was not isolated. These were not a few rogue officers. This was a part of the culture of Louisville Metro Police Department. And that's clear by the officers. This was a part of the culture of Louisville Metro Police Department. And that's clear by the designation. The question that I have, though, is

when are we going to start believing black people? Yes, the federal government came in. They did an investigation, as they should have, and they uncovered what many had been saying was going on in that city for a very long time. I think that if there's anything that comes from it, it should be the recognition that we need to listen to the people who are in community and talking about what is ailing them and what is wrong with systemic racism within American policing. So obviously this is on legal merits. You make a great point there. But this is of a moment of a political moment.

And it's this balance of people calling for police reform, but also when crime is up in so many cities. How is that factoring in to what these individual departments are saying and trying to defend their officers behavior? That's a great, great question, Jonathan. I think that a lot of it has to do with the sensationalized nature and how we discuss America's crime problem. First and foremost, it's important for viewers to understand that violent crime in America constitutes less than 20% of the total crime that is addressed by police. Not to mention the fact that when you're talking about crime in America, you're not talking about data-driven solutions. That is part of the issue.

Our solution to crime in America is always more police. Throw more money to police. Give more money and more resources to police. That does not solve crime because that's not why crime occurs. Crime does not occur because there's an absence of police. Crime occurs because there's an absence of community with opportunity. And that's the issue. You have to invest in community, create opportunities, create things that give people alternatives that do not end up with a false sense of competition for resources that may not be available such that these people are able to thrive and survive. The Justice Department announced it also will open an investigation

into the Memphis Police Department. The DOJ's Office of Community-Oriented Policing Services will review the city's law enforcement with a separate probe into the department's specialized units. That city's policing practices have come under scrutiny after the beating death of Tyree Nichols earlier this year. Nichols, you remember, was beaten brutally by officers during a traffic stop and died in the hospital three days later. The five former officers who were members of the Memphis Police Department's now disbanded Scorpion unit have been charged with murder. They all pleaded not guilty last month. And the city of Memphis is delaying its release of new video of the arrest that night. The city was set to release charging documents and 20 hours of new footage yesterday.

But a judge sided with defense lawyers who argued they need time to review the video before it is made available to the public. So, Charles, what does it tell you that DOJ is getting involved here as well? Well, it tells me that they are continuing to make a very clear message that they are not going to allow police practices in America to remain broken and that they understand the severity of the many complaints that have resulted from cities like Memphis with respect to these sorts of issues around police violence. I think that establishing a consistent measure will give a guidepost to police departments

across the country that, look, the message is clear. You need to do better. MSNBC legal analyst, Charles Coleman. We always appreciate your expertise here. Good to see you. You as well.