Morning Joe - Morning Joe 4/1/24

Episode Date: April 1, 2024

Trump spends Easter posting 77 times on social media

That's right, it's Easter, the time of year when I compare myself to Jesus Christ. That's just a thing I do now and people seem to be okay with it. I'm going to keep doing it. And if you think that this is a bad look, imagine how weird it would be if I started selling Bibles. Well, I'm selling Bibles. Look at this beautiful Bible made from a hundred percent bible sounds like a joke and in many ways it is but it's also very real

as you know i love bible it's my favorite book i have definitely read it uh my favorite part is probably the ending now it all wraps up but this is a very special Bible and it could be yours for the high, high price of $60. But I'm not doing this for the money. I'm doing this for the glory of God and for pandering and mostly for money. Saturday Night Live's take on Donald Trump hawking his own version of the Bible. The former president then spent Easter Sunday ranting for hours on social media, saying things that you wouldn't say on any day. We'll discuss why that matters and how the Biden campaign is responding.

Plus, we'll get legal analysis on the gag order in Trump's hush money case after he repeatedly criticized the judge and the judge's daughter. Also ahead, the latest from Israel, where thousands of people protested yesterday in Jerusalem calling for new elections in the country. It is the largest demonstration since the war against Hamas began. We'll talk about that for sure. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Monday, April 1st. With us, we have the host of Way Too Early, White House Bureau Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, U.S. Special Correspondent for BBC News, Katty Kaye, the host of the podcast On Brand with Johnny Deutch. Johnny Deutch is with us and Deputy Managing Editor for Politics at Politico, Sam. Donnie Deutsch is with us and deputy managing editor

for politics at Politico. Sam Stein is here also with us, MSNBC contributor and author of the book How the Right Lost Its Mind. Charlie Sykes is with us. What a great group to have on this Monday morning with so much to talk about. And we're going to take it step by step here because there's a lot. We begin with Donald Trump spending another religious holiday on social media on really what you would call a bender. Just that, I mean, like dozens turned into 40, 50, 60, 70 hosts through Easter, through the Easter holiday. While most people were spending time with their families, maybe in church, we were in church. Trump appeared to be glued to his phone, posting 77 times on Truth Social. From sunrise to sunset, the presumptive 2024 Republican nominee spent the day airing his grievances and sharing far right news

coverage that cast him in a positive light. And as is customary for Trump on the holidays, one all caps post wished a happy Easter to his perceived enemies, including the quote, crooked and corrupt prosecutors and judges that are doing everything possible to interfere with the presidential election of 2024 and put me in prison, including those many people that I completely and totally despise because they want to destroy America. Trump also shared two articles that compared him, him to Jesus Christ. One was titled, quote, the crucifixion of Donald Trump. And the other wrote that something, quote, supernatural was happening with Trump, whom the author described as a miracle and the chosen one sent by God. And in typical Trump fashion, one of his final posts on the day

was a photo of him receiving a golf trophy for a tournament that he create and hosted. Chances are didn't win, but that's just me right there. President Biden, meanwhile, marked Easter Sunday with a solemn message that reads, Jill and I send our warmest wishes to Christians around the world celebrating Easter Sunday. Easter reminds us of the power of hope and the promise of Christ's resurrection. As we gather with loved ones, we remember Jesus' sacrifice. We pray for one another and cherish the blessing of the dawn of new possibilities. And with wars and conflict taking a toll on innocent lives around the world, we renew our commitment to work for peace, security, and dignity for all people,

from our family to yours. Happy Easter, and may God bless you. There's so much here, such a contrast, and there's so much more to report. And it's easy to get triggered and to go down a tangent. That's sort of the Trump strategy. The shock opera, the constant shock. Knowing that the base will be there. They'll accept anything. So what you can do now is mangle the truth, warn people about how you're going to lead, which he's doing, and trigger the media. Go after Joe Biden. Trigger the Democrats. Threaten what you're going to do. Threaten

democracy. And I think that, you know, the parallels to Jesus, the parallels to himself being Jesus are just the next level. And something that is not to be triggered by is to expect in a cult leader. You know, Charlie Sykes yesterday, you know, celebrating Easter, we went to church, we heard from a pastor who made this point. I mean, there's so many good points in his sermon, but it's that Easter was a day for renewal, to think about your relationship with God, to think about your relationship with Jesus because he loves you unconditionally, because it's a relationship that you have with your God, with God, and not religion. It's not a relationship with religion. It's not a relationship with religion. It's not a relationship with politics.

It's not a relationship with a person. It's a relationship with God. And today is your day to maybe it hasn't been so good, but here's your day to come back. Um, it was very beautiful. Um, and then, you know, reading in for the show this morning, it was very jarring to see a candidate, the frontrunner for the Republican nominee, just, there's a word I want to use, but just tear all over that, that concept and make it about himself. Well, of course, and by the way, happy April Fool's Day. But unfortunately, this is the reality. This is the real world. And what you saw over the weekend was not an actual parody. The Saturday Night Live episode really sort of nailed it.

But it's it's difficult to come up with a parody of what Donald Trump is actually doing, peddling the Bible in in just the crudest possible pandering. But again, you know, the split screen between Joe Biden, who is, whatever you think about his politics, is a sincere and committed Catholic. He is a believer. And then Donald Trump off on the 70-plus rants, unhinged rants. But I also have to point out, though, the split screen. What was going on in terms of the alternative realities we live in here? So all week long, Donald Trump had to answer for this cynical pandering with the Bible. But right-wing media was focused on two things over the weekend, and they pounded it and pounded it and pounded it.

Number one was the very misleading charge that somehow Joe Biden had replaced Easter with Trans Visibility Day. There must have been a thousand tweets about that. And then another completely misleading story about how the Biden White House had banned religious symbols on Easter eggs. In fact, this is this has been a policy that's been in place for decades, including the Trump administration. But, you know, in the split screen world, you have Donald Trump with the unhinged rants, but his base is hearing, you know, this other message that it is Joe Biden who is the enemy of God and of faith. And it is and it is Donald Trump who is the defender of the faith.

It is it's so absurd. But I think we need to understand and come to grips with the way in which we have this, this completely alternative narrative out there that has really no relationship to reality, but which is very, very potent in American politics these days. Yeah, we have a fact check

on what you just mentioned in just a moment, and then we'll go through it point by point. But Trump's social media frenzy yesterday fact check on what you just mentioned in just a moment, and we'll go through it point by point. But Trump's social media frenzy yesterday came after he posted a video depicting violence against President Joe Biden earlier on the weekend. On Friday, the former president published a video which appeared to be taken by one of his senior campaign advisors, Dan Scavino. That's a guy who worked at his Briarcrest country club like years ago, driving him around on a golf cart, handling people coming in. And now he's the front guy. He's been there and he has lasted. Just think about that. We're not going to play it here, but the video shows a truck driving down a highway with a decal of Biden on the back depicting the sitting president

hogtied and kidnapped. In a statement, a Biden campaign spokesman slammed the post, writing in part, quote, Trump is regularly inciting political violence and it's time people take him seriously. Just ask the Capitol police officers who were attacked protecting our democracy on January 6th. And Donnie, I'll let you take it from here. There's so much more, especially kind of breaking down the whole story of the funeral that Trump went to. But he made Easter a religious holiday about himself. Who is surprised? Nobody on our set. It's more when are Americans, all of them, going to understand this as more of a warning? You know, the thing that he posted, Joe Biden hogtied in the back of a truck as an image that he wants to send out there,

that's more than a warning. That is a complete tell of what the violence that he is provoking could possibly and will probably happen as a result of him either winning or losing as a president. It is. I saw that and I had to check with five different people. Is this real? Because it was unfathomable. And at the same time, as he talks about him being this Christlike figure and selling Bibles and whatever religion you are, whether you are Catholic, whether you are Muslim, whether you are a Jew, whether you are Episcopalian religion, I've yet to find a religion that promotes violence. So there's this ridiculous irony that on the one hand, he is sending himself up as the Messiah and this religious figure. On the other hand, he is the stoker of violence of the most extreme kind of violence.

I don't know where I grew up. Those two things don't necessarily go hand in hand. And yet there were some on the right, some writers who suggested that, yes, that Trump might be a Christlike figure sent to redeem this nation. We saw that over the weekend. As Charlie mentioned, though, the White House is pushing back on Republicans' criticism of President Biden for issuing a proclamation in support of transgender people. In a statement released on Friday, Biden proclaimed March 31st as Transgender Day of Visibility. Now, that day has been celebrated on March 31st every year since 2009. But this is the first time in 11 years that it has overlapped with Easter. Despite Biden following precedent, Republicans ripped the president for his proclamation in a post on Twitter X. House Speaker Mike Johnson

claimed that Biden, quote, betrayed the central tenant of Easter. Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene also wrote that there was no length Biden and the Democrats won't go to to mock your faith and to thumb his nose at God. And in a statement, the Trump campaign called on Biden to apologize to Catholics and Christians, separating them oddly, for his blasphemous declaration. Those same Republicans also took exception to the White House's guidelines for the annual Easter egg roll, asking for decorated eggs not to include, quote, any questionable content, religious symbols, overtly religious themes or partisan political statements. But those guidelines, well, those have been in place for nearly 50 years. Katty, it is just one bad faith argument after another. As noted, President Biden is a Catholic of deep faith. He, of course, went to Easter Mass yesterday.

No word if Donald Trump went to any sort of religious ceremony. But it's another issue where facts don't matter, where Republicans are leaning in on the imagery that Trump is perhaps sent from God. He can hawk his own Bible and no one seems to care. We had the lead story in the New York Times this morning is about how Trump is leaning into images of evangelical Christianity as an appeal to supporters. The Biden White House is simply following tradition,

but yet that's not breaking through. Tell us what this means right now, the state of our politics. I mean, tackling misinformation and disinformation in this era for us, let alone for the campaigns, is incredibly difficult. Right. We would be spending huge amounts of time on it. I know that, you know, BBC, we have teams of people doing this. I'm sure in the Biden campaign they have teams of people doing it as well. The question is, you know, even if you do correct the record, even if you do say, look, actually, this story.

Yes, there was a day recognizing trans rights that happened to be on the same day as Easter. That is the day that it is always planned. Does that get through to any of Trump's ardent supporters? Probably not. Does it get through to a few swing state voters that are actually going to be the people that decide the election. I guess that's the key. And that's who the Biden campaign needs to keep trying to reach out to say the information that you are getting, what you are hearing on Truth Social or other forms of media that you're listening to is not necessarily the facts. It's incredibly hard. I mean, combating we know this combating mis and disinformation is is really, really difficult. There is some indication in polling that Donald Trump's support amongst

white evangelical Christians may be softening. Yes, he's still getting 68 percent of the white evangelical vote in the latest Fox News poll, but that is down from 73 percent in October. And look at the pushback that he got against that Bible sale from some evangelical leaders, Christian leaders. And I just wonder whether sometimes Donald Trump does something that even they find too difficult and that softening of the support that you're seeing. I think that's going to be, I mean, it's still a large chunk of evangelical Christians and they still see him as a kind of a messianic figure. But it's interesting that it's down a bit. And I think it's going to be an interesting trend to

watch over the next six months, how much they stay with him if he carries on doing things like this. All right. Everyone stay right there. We're going to take one minute break in one minute. We're going to come back and talk to you about exactly what the Biden campaign is doing about this, how they're responding. We'll be right back. One minute. she's gone crazy. She's a very angry person. She is not presidential timber. I don't need votes. We have all the votes we need. She's gone haywire. There aren't that many never Trumpers anymore. How do you bring these Nikki Haley voters back into the tank? I'm not sure we need too many. That's a new Biden campaign ad highlighting Donald Trump's attacks on Nikki Haley in an effort to attract her supporters. Meanwhile, NBC News is learning key details about President Biden's newest campaign

strategy, and that is getting under Donald Trump's skin. In the past few weeks, the president has ramped up the personal attacks against his Republican opponent in both private and public settings, targeting Trump's financial challenges, campaign tempo and even his weight. Multiple Biden aides and advisers familiar with the approach tell NBC News that the strategy has largely been driven by Biden himself and they're just following his lead. One Biden aide said, quote, There's just something about Joe Biden that gets under Donald Trump's skin more than anybody. And I think Joe Biden knows that. In recent days, the Biden campaign has posted the following attack lines calling Donald Trump feeble, confused and tired, weak and desperate, broke, done. Campaign can't raise money, lying about having money he definitely doesn't have. A loser. He must have injected bleach, old and out of shape. Well, there is that, Sam Stein. The Biden campaign has been really good on rapid response.

Yeah, I mean, they clearly want to agitate Trump. They want to get him on sort of side pursuits. They want to get him to say crazy things. And I think, you know, you went down the list. One of the more interesting ones is they've accused him of hiding in his basement during the past month, which is an inverse of what Trump himself was accusing Biden of in the 2020 campaign. So clearly, there's like a larger strategy here. They're trying to do a version of psychological warfare against the candidate himself. And it's pretty telling because you can see Trump's reaction in real time on True Social. I will say on the rapid response front, you know, I did notice they

quickly moved to go after this fake attack around, you know, branding Easter Transgender Visibility Day. They were very quick up with it. I think they understand what Katty was talking about, which is that these stories, these myths, this disinformation can travel in these sort of closed off ecosystems pretty fast. And it's hard to reach these people who do not consume news from traditional means. They'll get it from True Social, from other avenues where you won't get a correction. So you do have to move fast. And let me just say, you know, I don't celebrate Easter, obviously. I thought the whole thing was bizarre, though, because, you know, what was the actual problem here of having Transgender Visibility Day that

happened to coincide on Easter? Why is that problematic at all? Isn't it supposed to be a holiday of acceptance? And I thought that was the fundamentally weird part about this whole faux controversy, which is that, what are you actually mad about? Why does it make a difference that the days fall on the same day this year? So it's so interesting that I think the strategy, Charlie Sykes, of making a mockery of Trump is a good one because he doesn't get jokes. He doesn't like being embarrassed. It will really get to him. When he posted. And this sounds so little in the grand scheme of things. But Trump posted about winning a golf tournament and he did some big all caps announcement about a tournament he won at one of his own clubs where he probably

picked up the ball and put it in the hole. But whatever. And the Biden campaign posted back or tweeted back, good job, Donald. Like it was a joke to everybody. But Donald will not get it. Not saying he's stupid. I'm saying he doesn't. There's something missing from his personality where he does not. And I've seen this firsthand. He doesn't get jokes about himself. They are lost on him. But make no mistake, these times that we're in are dead serious. There's no joke about them at all.

And if you look big picture at Trump's twisted strategy that is working on his base, it's to say something, but then say the opposite, but to get them to agree with both. So you say immigrants are rapists. They're disgusting. They are bringing in, you know, all sorts of diseases. And then you have your politicians in Congress who are too weak to have their own minds. you have them block the border bill. Yeah. You say you're for national security, global security, being strong. And Ukrainians are dying today because aid has yet to come. The list goes on, Charlie. And I guess the question is how the Democrats, because this isn't going to be an

election about Democrats or Republicans, it's going to be an election about democracy. It is no joke. These are dead serious times. How is Joe Biden and the Democratic Party going to be able to not get sidetracked, not get triggered by these daily rituals of freaking people out about whatever the issue of the day is, transgender posts that ends up being something that's been done, making a lie. How do they focus Americans on what's at stake? Well, it's obviously difficult because of these alternative realities out there, but they what they need to do is not so much get under Donald Trump's skin to make him say crazy things, because he'll do that on his own, right? It is to point out that he's a fake and a phony, and the things that he claims to be are actually absurd. So, for example, on Friday, his big photo op was to go to the funeral of a New York police officer. I think people need to be reminded that Donald Trump, you know,

continues to promise that he's going to pardon the January 6th rioters that attack and beat cops, tased cops, that police officers died as a result of the violence he incited. So here is somebody, and again, this is the juxtaposition, what Donald Trump claims to be versus the reality. And I think that that can be highlighted. You mentioned this. You know, he's the big patriot, but he kowtows to the world's thugs. He claims to be for law and order, but he has aligned himself with people who attacked police officers.

He claims to be a Christian. But, you know, what exactly is the content of his Christianity? And the way you highlighted the contrast about Easter. People look at Donald Trump, but Donald Trump claims to be something, and he has been for his entire life a fraud and a phony to the extent to which they can point this out that donald trump who claims to be this world-bestriding successful businessman is in fact somebody who has defrauded himself to much of his wealth it is not as rich as or successful as he claims to be and i think this is a chip chip chip away because there are people who look at donald. And this is one of the really weird things about our world. I don't know if you've seen the sort of the online Trumpist porn where he's portrayed as looking like, you know, this buff superhero flying on an eagle carrying an AK-47, when in fact, he is a soft, you know, he's a soft wannabe. And I think to the extent to which you highlight the

gap between what Trump is pretending to be and what he really is, you might make some progress. We often say that truth social is a window into Donald Trump's soul, as it were. And I think it's reflective of when he's really feeling pressure. And we should make sure we note yesterday's Easter screed. Well, two weeks from today is when he has to be in court. Jury selection begins for a criminal trial, historic first criminal trial for a former president. That's happening here in Manhattan and clearly weighing on him. He also finally returns to the campaign trail this week. He's got a couple of events. We'll watch what he has to say. But I wanted to pick up something Sam said a moment ago about Transgender Visibility Day and why should it even matter if it's on Easter? And again, it's just a coincidence of the calendar

that it was. It is an inclusive holiday. It shouldn't matter. But Donnie, Republicans are seizing upon trans issues as like their go-to wedge issue this time around. We've covered it. Joe talks a lot about it, about the issue of just how small it really is in sports and high school and college sports. But, you know, but Republicans think it's this huge, huge deal. We saw them lean in heavily all weekend on this very online right wing Trumpist presence, thinking this is going to be an issue that really resonates with voters. I mean, you have your finger on the pulse as to what people care about or not. Do people care about this? And if this is what Republicans have, is this the best they have? That's not going to be enough. Here's why I think the Republicans so heinously seize on the trans

issue. It's not obviously the numbers are not there. The amount of trans athletes competing as men with women is point zero zero zero one percent. But it's an issue that if you're an American and this is said and things don't make sense to you anymore as far as what's going on, that the country is becoming white, you're a minority and globalization and everything that's happening. This is an issue that, oh, wait, boys can be girls, girls can be boys. That is this simplistic. I know the world doesn't make sense to you anymore. Get it. See what's happening.

Boys aren't even boys anymore. Girls aren't even girls anymore. And it's this like dumbed down version of we'll make sense of the world for you if it doesn't make sense to you anymore. It's this like sliver issue. And it's the irony is it's an issue of inclusion. It's an issue of what America is all about. But they'll turn it upside down and say, you see, it doesn't make sense. The world is not yours anymore. The world is coming to hell. And it doesn't make sense. And come with me. I'll make it make sense again. That's the dumbed down, simplistic issue issue of why they go after the trans issue. And it's tragic and it's disgusting. Yeah. Don't disagree. Charlie Sykes, by the way, thank you so much for being on this morning.

We appreciate it. And coming up, a conversation on the state of the war in Ukraine. Without new aid from the U.S., the country's president is facing tough decisions on the next steps for his army. We'll discuss that with The Washington Post's David Ignatius, who is just back from Ukraine and interviewed President Zelensky. Morning Joe is coming right back. Thirty two past the hour. Thousands took to the streets outside Israel's parliament in Jerusalem yesterday to call for new elections in the country. The New York Times reports it was one of the most significant demonstrations against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government since the Israel-Hamas war began. Look at this. And it comes one day after thousands

took to the streets of Tel Aviv in separate anti-government protests. Netanyahu himself underwent surgery last night to treat a hernia, with the hospital releasing a video this morning calling the procedure successful. Meanwhile, in Egypt, an Israeli delegation held ceasefire talks on Sunday. That's according to two Israeli officials who spoke to The New York Times on the condition of anonymity. Joining us now, columnist and associate editor for The Washington Post, David Ignatius joins us. David, I know you were just back from Ukraine and we look forward to that conversation. But first, can you tell us about the the stress brewing within Israel itself and and around the Middle East about Netanyahu's leadership?

Mika, you have the sense that Prime Minister Netanyahu is running out of road in Israel. He's under attack now from both the left, critics of his policy, people who want to focus on release of the hostages, and from the right. His right-wing coalition partners are upset at proposed legislation that would require ultra-Orthodox Jews who don't serve in the military to serve. That could break his coalition. So he's increasingly on the hot seat. He's not popular. He is promising a quick end to the war in Gaza. It's not coming. We'll see what these latest hostage release talks can produce. The U.S. has placed enormous stress on this, thinking that once you get a ceasefire temporarily for however many weeks,

you begin to be able to deescalate the situation, help the poor Palestinians whose situation is desperate and begin to stabilize the region. But we just got to see whether the first steps are even possible in those talks. But for Netanyahu, this is a pretty narrowing set of options. And, you know, given his basic unpopularity with the public, he's got to be worried. David, let's turn the conversation to Ukraine. You've just got back and you interviewed President Zelensky. First of all, how did you find him? And how did you find him, given that he is having to make choices imposed on him by a lack of U.S. weapons supplies?

And what does that mean for his war effort? What's he doing with the little that he has, the too little that he has? So, Katty, he was very frank speaking on the eve of Congress's discussion. We helped vote on the Ukraine military aid package. He was quite blunt in saying what the consequences would be for Ukraine if that aid is not provided. He said that we will have to back up. We'll have to retreat in our front lines because of the lack of ammunition. He's very specific. He got out a piece of paper, drew a kind of battle map and said, if I've got only 2,000 rounds of artillery

and I need 8,000, I've got to shorten my lines, which means pulling back. That was unusually blunt. He said the lack of air defense weapons increasingly means that Ukraine's cities are vulnerable to Russian attack. That happens every day, every night. It happened in the South while I was in Ukraine during these four days. It's just now a constant fact of life. He said it's going to get worse unless we can get these weapons to defend ourselves. I think the most important thing he said was, look, if you don't give me the weapons to prevent the Russians from attacking our cities, we have no choice but to make them feel a similar price. If we don't have energy, they won't have energy. And Ukrainians have, in fact, been attacking Russian oil refineries, other facilities. He told me that U.S. officials

had said they were not happy about that. They fear it's an escalation of the war. But in his mind, the only way to put pressure on Russia to stop this is to is to punch back. He described his strategy and then he looked at me and said, it's fair. And I think that's clearly the way he and his country, men and women feel. And David, as you well know, the White House has frowned upon some of those strikes within Russia's borders. Did Zelensky, in your conversation with him, suggest, even hint at, or conversely, completely rule out any sort of negotiation? You know, there's been a growing international pressure here, as we see, as U.S. and U.K. military officials are really

are seeing Russia is making some progress here. They are advancing into further into Ukrainian territory. There's been push to some point to bring this war to a close around a negotiating table. Did he talk about that one way or the other at all when you were with him? He expressed, Jonathan, no interest in negotiations. I think he feels that Putin, for now, imagining that he has an advantage, isn't prepared to come to the table. And he made no reference to it either. I think the Ukrainian hope is their plan B, if you will, if they can't get the weapons from the U.S., is to keep developing their own weapons. I met with people who were building Ukrainian drones, and they're pretty amazing. They're

cobbled together with wood and string, you might say, but they carry a pretty potent pack. They can go as far as a thousand kilometers, well into Russia. The attacks on Ukrainian or Russian refineries that have done so much damage, those are Ukrainian drones that are that are that are making the attacks. Their naval drones at sea have basically taken back Ukraine's territorial waters. So they're determined to keep fighting. The last time I was in Ukraine in October, I sensed growing war weariness that described the country as bleeding out. I had less of that feeling this time. People were focused on doing the things they can, hoping and praying that the U.S. Congress listens to their pleas for more assistance, but determined to continue not talking for now

about negotiations. All right. The Washington Post, Dave Ignatius, thank you very much for coming on this morning. And still ahead on Morning Joe, Politico's Jonathan Martin will join us with his new piece asking why hasn't Biden called Chris Christie? We'll discuss what impact the president courting anti-Trump Republicans would have on his campaign. Plus, Donald Trump won't stop attacking the judge's daughter who is presiding over his hush money case where he paid a porn star off to have her be quiet, having sex with her and wanted to cover it up using campaign dollars. We'll tell you what he posted this time that could possibly violate his gag order. Morning Joe will be right back. 45 past the hour. Beautiful shot of New York City. So a sitting federal judge took the rare step late last week of appearing in a TV interview to harshly criticize Donald Trump's attacks on a colleague. The judge overseeing

the former president's criminal case tied to alleged hush money payments, calling them assaults on the rule of law that could lead to violence and tyranny. Republican appointed U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton spoke to CNN following Trump's recent attacks on social media against Judge Juan Mishan and his daughter. Take a listen. I can't get into someone's mind to say whether they appreciate the impact that they're doing, but I would think that any reasonable thinking person would appreciate that when they say things that can sometimes resonate with others. And I think that's particularly true when you have somebody who has status in our society

and they make certain statements. It can cause people to act on those statements, even if they don't necessarily intend for someone to do so. So I think it's very important that people in positions of authority be very circumspect in reference to the things that they say so that they're not causing others to act on what they say and maybe cause injury or death to someone as a result of that. We have had judges who've lost their lives or family members have lost their lives as a result of individuals who have been litigants in their courtroom. And I think it's important in order to preserve our democracy that we maintain the rule of law. Meanwhile, the Manhattan DA's office is looking

for clarity of the gag order imposed in the New York hush money case against former President Trump. Late last week, prosecutors sent a letter to Judge Marchand asking him to confirm that the gag order in the case not only covered witnesses and staffers, but also stretched to their family members. Prosecutors said potential trial witnesses and prospective jurors could be afraid their families would be subject to attacks similar to Trump's social media posts on the judge and the judge's daughter. Let's bring in former litigator and MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin. Lisa, has he crossed the line in this gag order? Has he broken the rule that the judge put down? In spirit, Mika, but not in letter. So when the district attorney's office wrote to Judge

Marchand last week and asked him to confirm or clarify that the judge himself and his family members are covered by this gag order. I think they have probably not the better of the argument here. On the other hand, should this gag order apply to Judge Sean and, for example, his family members, the family members of District Attorney Alvin Bragg? it probably should. But in asking for confirmation or clarity that it applies to Judge Marchand, what the DA's office is trying to do here is essentially short circuit what could be lengthy briefing that would further expose Judge Marchand's daughter to harm here. They want the judge to say that it covers her already so that they don't give Donald Trump further opportunity while that briefing is ongoing to keep doing what he's been doing and jeopardize her safety.

Lisa, we watch you report all the time on how Trump continues to cross the line. And you're saying this line is fuzzy and that when will it ever get to a point that any judge says, you know what, you're going to spend a few days in the clinic. And like, what will it take? Because it's just our judicial system is becoming a mockery or he's making mockery out of it. He is. And I will say it's a huge collective action problem, Donnie, because we need a single judge to be willing to put themselves out there and to implement those rules. So, first of all, he's not yet violated the gag order. In order for someone to say he's crossed the line, there has to be a line that he actually formally and legalistically

crosses. However, one of the things that the DA's office did in the letter that they sent last week was say at the very end, we want you to tell him that this violates your gag order. And if he continues to do it, we want you to consider implementing sanctions under two New York statutes. Anybody familiar with the New York criminal code understands that those were the criminal contempt statutes where punishment can be up to 30 days in jail. If there is a time to implement those kinds of sanctions, Judge Mershon may be the first person to really take seriously that possibility. So Lisa, this trial is rapidly approaching. Two weeks from today is when jury

selection is slated to begin. Is there anything that could derail or delay that? And if not, what is the timeline of the early stages of what this trial would look like? Well, let's talk about what could delay it, because I think you'll see Team Trump pull out all the stops here. Last week, they filed a motion to adjourn the trial on the basis of pretrial publicity. Essentially, their argument is Donald Trump can't get a fair trial in New York County, where their polling shows that predominant numbers of people in the jury pool are predisposed against him. They also say that the amount of publicity attendant to his prior trials and this trial makes it impossible. You're closing your eyes at me and sort of like giving me a dubious look.

And that's because Donald Trump is responsible for a preponderance of vast publicity. We are all privy to the true social storm that happened yesterday. I think dozens and dozens of posts. So it's very hard to complain that, for example, Michael Cohen or Stormy Daniels are responsible for the pretrial publicity predicament

that he's in when this is a situation largely of his own making. So we have that motion to which the DA's office is going to respond today. There's also a small possibility that Donald Trump will move again to recuse Judge Mershon on the basis of his daughter's job. Now, you and I and Donnie may all say to each other, she's an adult woman. What does her father have to do with the job that she has? Under New York statute, you can have a problem if a relative within six degrees to you has an interest in the outcome of a proceeding or has an interest that would be substantially affected by the proceeding. Can we bring this to Clarence Thomas at some point, by the way? Well, certainly people have said as much on my ex account when I have floated this possibility. But the argument that Trump's folks could make is that the interest that Ms. Mershon has in this proceeding is more manifestly clear today than it was last year when Judge

Mershon first started to preside over Donald Trump's case. All right. MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin. I think we're going to be seeing a lot of you in the next couple of days. We appreciate your insight this morning. Thank you very much. So Donald Trump's social media platform went public last week, resulting in a possible multibillion dollar windfall that could help pay his legal bills and give his presidential campaign some much needed cash. The Wall Street Journal reports, quote, the parent company of Trump's Truth Social is now worth about eight point five billion dollars. This for a company with about five million dollars in sales and

its existence. The result is a never beforebefore-seen mashup of stock market frenzy and political financing. Suddenly, Trump's supporters can back his campaign by driving up shares of his company, a form of political expression that goes beyond buying hats or Bibles. Joining us now, the author of that piece, reporter for The Wall Street Journal, Amrith Ramkamar. Amrith, thank you for coming on this morning. So how quickly could he get access to large amounts of money through this? Well, that's the million or billion dollar question in this case. Typically in deals like this one, people like Trump would have to hold their shares or not be able to borrow against them for six months. But in this case, the Trump-friendly board could decide the stock is doing really well. A lot of people are making a lot of money. Maybe

we'll give him a waiver to allow him to cash out a bit early. And if they do that, based on the stock's crazy trading volume, he could make at least several hundred million dollars. So that's something we're going to have to watch. A lot of people have said they'll probably try to wait at least a month or maybe 45 days because this deal just goes just closed. But it's it seems like an April Fool's Day joke, but it's a real story happening on Wall Street right now. So I think he has a deadline in about a week or so for at least half of the money owed in his civil judgment. Is there any possibility he could get that money? Or is it you're saying we're about a month away if he can get any? Yeah, it's really unclear for that. A lot of people have suggested he would need a bank or an insurance company to use the stock as collateral and give him a loan.

And it's really confusing when the stock goes up and down and fluctuates like crazy. And a lot of these companies are really not able to do business with Trump, given the reputational and other issues right now. So he would need to still find someone willing to do that. And it's unclear if he could. But longer term, a lot of people are looking ahead to the election. Six months after this deal closes would be the end of September, and by then he could get his hands potentially on at least several hundred million, if not more. And that could really boost his campaign if he decides to put some of his own money in. It's really unclear whether he would.

But right now, his stake in Truth Social is worth something like $5 billion, and that would roughly triple his net worth. And it's really crazy, given so much of his wealth is tied up in properties, casinos, golf courses, resorts, things like that. So the stock price is something everyone is watching. And a lot of professional traders are now using it to wager on election outcomes. And that's something we really haven't seen in modern stock market history. It's a fun new reality here, Amrith. Sam Stein here. I guess I have a very fundamental question, which I think a lot of people are wondering is, how does a company with roughly $5 million in revenues, extremely limited growth over its existence, get a valuation at $8 billion? I mean, how does that happen?

Look, this is the meme stock era, right? We've seen this at brief points over the last few years with companies like GameStop and others where the valuations got crazy, traders banded together on social media to push it up. All of those factors coming together. Then you throw in Trump and an electioneer. It's all of those factors on steroids. So this is sort of the mother of all meme stocks, the ultimate meme stock, however you want to put it. And if you go on Truth Social, you can see some of these groups. There's one in particular that has almost 10,000 traders who have banded together to

buy the stock. And they're very loyal Trump supporters, and they do view it as this form of political expression. What better way to help Trump, especially given all his campaign and legal challenges right now, than by buying shares of this company and showing your faith in him? So it's really taken on a life of its own. And like I said before, you now have a lot of professionals on Wall Street who can spot this coming a mile away. So around when this deal was closing around a week ago, you saw a lot of professionals saying, we know that a lot of individual retail investors are going to band together and buy this stock.

I want to play that, too. So it's really crazy momentum buying and selling. And we've seen over time this tends to not end well. But even if it stays this crazy high for at least a couple of more months, that could give Trump this kind of unprecedented fortune. All right. We'll be watching this. The Wall Street Journal's Amrith Rankumar. Thank you so much for being on this morning. We appreciate your reporting.