Morning Joe - Morning Joe 4/1/25

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

Wisconsin and Florida host the first major elections of Trump's second term

In some of his strongest comments yet, President Trump says he's considering his options to serve a third term in office, a breach of the Constitution's two term limit for presidents. I'm sorry, considering the option? What, are you trying to order off menu from the Constitution? Who cares what he won't rule out? I won't rule out lying down on the Krispy Kreme conveyor belt and letting the glaze just take me. But that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

The Constitution forbids it. President Trump said in a new interview that he is not joking about seeking a third term and added, quote, there are methods. In response, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer announced that Democrats will have a plan in place to stop him by 2032. All right, some late-night hosts making fun of President Trump considering a third term in office.

We have a lot to cover this morning, except that story. Right now, we're following key elections today. Voters are headed to the polls in Wisconsin, where there is a high-stakes Supreme Court cover this morning, except that story. Right now, we're following key elections today. Voters are headed to the polls in Wisconsin, where there is a high-stakes Supreme Court race taking shape. And in Florida, where the outcome of two special elections could further narrow the GOP's House majority. We'll break down what to expect, what to watch for.

Plus, hours from now, a group of Democratic senators will force a vote on a resolution to end tariffs on Canadian imports, and some Republicans are now considering joining them as they scramble to shield their states from the looming impact. Also ahead, top Senate Democrats are calling on Attorney General Pam Bondi to appoint a special counsel to investigate the Signal Group chat. But will she listen and open up a DOJ probe? Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe.

It is Tuesday, April 1st, April Fool's Day. The worst. Anybody have an April Fool's Day? Never would I. Now, let's just talk I now is that he did. Do you want to know she was all. So great she told me that they discontinued my coffee. Maddie on what was yours. She said it was her last day.

Yeah, and then she said to me it's my birthday. I actually moved in my dear friend, Maddie who gets us going and runs the scenes and then I'm sorry mine was the worst it was at sick. Actually I don't know if I'll ever. We're very vulnerable at this hour. Really can't do stuff like that to us. No, we strip down, yeah. Right.

All right, with us we have the co-host of our fourth hour and contributing writer at The Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire. Pulitzer Prize winning columnist and associate editor of The Washington Post, Eugene Robinson is with us this morning. Co-founder of Axios, Mike Allen is here. NBC News national affairs analyst and a partner and chief political columnist at Puck, John Heilman, and MSNBC contributor and author of the book How the Right Lost Its Mind, Charlie Sykes is with us.

So we've got a lot to get to this morning, but I think we start today, Willie, in Wisconsin. And Charlie's the right man to have with us because voters head to the polls today in Wisconsin's hotly contested Supreme Court race that is drawing national attention Conservative Brad Schimel a former state attorney general and current circuit court judge backed by billionaire Elon Musk is facing off against Progressive Susan Crawford a former prosecutor who is also a current circuit court judge. Musk has become a main character in this race, if you will, holding rallies in support of Schiml while he and groups he funds have combined to spend more than $21 million on this race, which is now the most expensive judicial contest in American history. During a tellerally last night, Musk bashed federal judges whose rulings have impeded

the policies of President Trump. But we've got this issue with judges that are activists. They're not judges. They're just pretending to be judges. They're just politicians wearing judges' robes. And that's a huge problem. In fact, I think that's just generally a problem. It's not just a challenge with tomorrow's election

in Wisconsin, but with the federal judges, where it's like, hey guys, you're really undermining faith. Like these judges are undermining faith in the legal system because they're supposed to be objective, but they're clearly not being objective. They're being just politicians. And this is not right. We should have an independent judicial system where it's not a matter of politics. So Charlie Sykes, we can put that larger argument to the side.

It just so happens, coincidentally, that only the judges who disagree with Donald Trump on constitutional grounds are the ones that Elon Musk and Donald Trump believe are somehow violating their duty. So let's talk specifically about Wisconsin, why this race is getting so much attention and so much money. What are the stakes here? Well, first of all, the irony it burns because virtually every piece of literature supporting the conservative candidate has Donald Trump's picture on it saying we need to support the Trump agenda, we need to provide Donald Trump a support network, so much for independent judiciary.

Look, the stakes in Wisconsin, of course, are very, very high objectively. This election will determine control of the court. It's got a 4-3 liberal majority. If Brad Schimel wins, it will flip to a 4-3 conservative majority. Huge consequences for abortion rights, for congressional redistricting, public employee rights. But the reason we're talking about this is because it's been nationalized. It's a proxy race now between Trump and the Democrats.

And quite frankly, it has become a referendum on Elon Musk and his money, and it's become a referendum on the first 60, 70 days of the Trump administration. We're not California, we're not florida we're not new york a hundred million dollars in a state like wisconsin is extraordinary would be extraordinary for a senate seat

much less a judicial seat so i think that what you're seeing here is that you are must is flexing his muscles he wants to uh... show uh... the rest of the republican party that he is the biggest the stick in the country that he is the number one enforcer uh... that he is uh... that he is the number one influencer and so he's got a lot riding on this is why he's put

so much money into this race yet where the cheese had their on stage uh... rally that's not so we know this act president and children's uh... few months back was razor thin in the state of Wisconsin. So what are the sort of betting odds here? How are people predicting this might go tonight? Oh, look, nobody knows.

I mean, everything in Wisconsin is always on a razor's edge. Almost every major race has been decided by 20,000 votes. And the Musk folks and the republicans are testing their theory is that they can turn out low propensity trump voters the kind of voters would normally sit home during a low low turnout judicial race and so they're trying to get them to come out like they did in no november the democrats are testing uh... the theory that they can they can make this a referendum on elon musk and elon Elon Musk's attempt to buy a seat in Wisconsin.

So, you know, we have these dueling theories here and because they've never been tested out before in an election like this, nobody really knows. The polls have been close. Elon Musk is not particularly popular in Wisconsin. Poll taken earlier last month showed him underwater with a 41% approval rating, 53% disapproved. But that was before a lot of things have happened, right? I mean, that was before we had the stories about Social Security and Medicare. That was before SignalGate. So this race, again, has big consequences for my home state,

but I think it's really going to shape the national narrative about the popularity of the Trump agenda. It will either play into Republican jitters about the economy and about congressional races, or it will be the moment in which Elon Musk says, you know, I am the master of the universe. You can send me anywhere in America with my big stick and my $26 million and I can determine the outcome of races in swing states. So it's going to be, I think the significance will be the way it will shape the national narrative over the next few days. So voters in Florida are also heading to the polls today for special elections in two

traditionally deep red congressional districts amid growing concerns from Republicans that both races may be much closer than anticipated. In Florida's first district, the state's chief financial officer, Republican Jimmy Petronas, is running to replace former GOP Congressman Matt Gaetz. Patronus is facing off against Democratic candidate Gaye Vellemont, a former activist with the group's Mom's Demand action for gun sense in America. And in the 6th district, GOP State Senator Randy Fine is running to replace former Republican Congressman Mike Walz, who is now

Trump's national security adviser. Fine is facing off against Democrat Josh Wheal, a public school teacher. Wheal has outraised his Republican opponent by millions of dollars. Republicans say they expect to win both races, but some are concerned a Democratic outperformance could fuel a narrative that Democrats have the momentum going into the 2026 midterms. This could be tough in Florida, don't you think, in these districts? Yeah, I mean, Florida, of course, in recent elections, has become more and more red. It's become certainly pretty safe Republican territory.

But the race to replace Mike Waltz, in particular, Mike Waltz, man in the news of late, has gotten tight and has raised GOP anxiety levels. Yes, speaking to some Republican operatives the last couple of days, they feel like they're going to win. But that one, much more than the other district in Florida, could be really close. And John Haman, this is sort of political in some ways silly season, right?

Where we're still very much in the president's first hundred days and the first election that we see after a presidential contest, we always try to draw sort of outsized meaning to them. And often that's the New Jersey and Virginia governor's races. Those usually come the year after, those come the year after a presidential election. And that still will apply a few months from now.

But today we have this test. The seats in Florida to be sure, but in particular the one in Wisconsin, where I think a lot of national Republicans and Democrats are looking to see what kind of meaning can we draw from this, referendums on Trump, but Musk, and also just where are Dems going after November's disaster? Yeah, Jonathan, it's true. There's always a lot of focus on these off-year elections and on special elections in the president's first term.

I think it's, you know, if a large trend emerges over the course of the year, it's not unfair, and history would support the notion that you look at that large trend and say that it's telling you something. It's way too early in this year to come to that conclusion. But I got to say, this Wisconsin race, you know, you could talk about all the various ways in which it's seen as a proxy for a lot of things. But I mean, really, the Musk factor here is really much more of a referendum has been turned into a referendum on Elon Musk, even more than it is the Trump agenda and I can tell

you that there are Republicans all over Washington who quietly would be perfectly happy to see the Republican lose that race in order to take some of the wind out of Elon Musk's sails. There are a lot of Capitol Hill Republicans who are concerned about having an increasingly unpopular Elon Musk's sales. There are a lot of Capitol Hill Republicans who are concerned about having an increasingly unpopular Elon Musk put around their neck like an albatross going into the midterm elections and they would like to be done with him and give the president, President Trump, a sense that perhaps it's not in his or the party's best political interest to be seen as the party of Elon Musk.

And losing this race in Wisconsin would have various negative implications for the Republican Party, but it would also take Elon Musk down a peg. And I can tell you, as I say, there are a lot of Republicans who wouldn't mind that happening. So, Mike Allen, as we talk about these Florida races, we should manage expectations. Democrats aren't going to win them. They want Republicans won by 37 and 30 points.

Trump won those districts by 37 and 30 points, but they could, Democrats could cut into those margins. Wisconsin, for all the reasons, Heilman just laid out with the Elon Musk factor is there. We had that surprising result in Pennsylvania last week, a Democrat winning a state level race in a Trump district. Where are Democrats focusing right now? What are their hopes? I guess they hope some of the polling shows up in these results, which is that Americans,

it turns out, don't like tariffs, that Americans, it turns out, don't like mass layoffs, chaotic layoffs where people they know, their neighbors, family members themselves are losing their jobs with the chainsaw guy, the billionaire. So what are you going to be looking for tonight? But broadly, what are we looking at here nationally in terms of how Democrats might do? Yeah, thank you, Willie. And first, welcome to April.

And happy unbirthday to the team up there in New York. Why tonight matters for Democrats is this is a chance for them to get off the mat. Like, a big showing, a big win tonight, that's going to bring in money, coin, energy. And I can tell you that in Wisconsin, the White House behind the scenes feeling terrible about how that looks. Charlie, of course, is right about Wisconsin always being a razor's edge. But I can tell you that inside the

Republican Party, not a lot of optimism about Wisconsin. Down in Florida, feeling great about the seat that Matt Gaetz used to occupy there in the first district, in the sixth district in Florida. Really getting nervous about that Mike Waltz seat despite that remarkable 30-point margin that you just mentioned. A little behind-the-scenes story for your viewers. This is from Axios Mark Caputo, who lives down there in Florida. And he said that behind the scenes, Mike Walz,

of course now the president's national security adviser, which is why they're having to fill this seat, Mike Walz is saying to colleagues behind the scenes, Randy Fine, the Republican candidate you just saw there, he said, if Randy Fine wins, I'm definitely getting fired. Okay, President Trump is expected to unveil his sweeping plan for reciprocal tariffs tomorrow. And while many details are still unclear at this point,

Trump says his tariff plan will be inspiring. It's a rebirth of a country because what, how we could have afforded to do what we did, we helped everybody and they don't help us. I really, the term I like best probably is the liberation of America. It's the liberation of this country because it's incredible. Look, we have $36 trillion in debt for a reason, and that accumulates over a long period of time. So I think what you're going to be seeing over the next couple of days will be very inspiring to a lot of people.

They're reciprocal. So whatever they charge us, we charge them, but we're being nicer than they were. We have a lot of countries, friend and foe. I always say friend and foe, but the friend in many cases is worse than the foe. But we're going to be very nice. Relatively speaking, we're going to be very kind. Some top Democratic senators are expected to force a vote today on a resolution that would eliminate President Trump's tariffs on Canadian imports. The resolution, led by Senator Tim Kaine, would end the emergency declaration President

Trump declared in February, citing fentanyl trafficking and illegal immigration. The vote could be a true test for Republicans. Senator Rand Paul has already indicated he supports the measure and according to Politico Senator Susan Collins plans to back the resolution as well. Senator Tom Tillis may also vote in support. The resolution would only need a simple majority to pass in the Senate but it's not clear whether it would get enough support in the House. Gene let's talk about Liberation Day, which has a lot of different contexts. Different countries celebrate it for different reasons.

It has history. But in this case, is there anybody who thinks there will be a positive outcome to these tariffs? And Susan Collins, that makes a lot of sense, because Maine, on the border with Canada, is really suffering right now. Yeah, that's right. Maine, you know, used to get thousands and thousands of tourists across the border from Canada who are not coming now because of this administration's antipathy, its hostility toward our Canadian neighbors, which is no one understands except Donald Trump and I guess Peter Navarro. And they're the

only ones who think that Liberation Day, in quotes, is going to be a positive thing for the United States. The only people I can find who really believe that. The stock market is not the economy, but look at how unsettled and how pessimistic the stock markets have been over the last few weeks in anticipation of these tariffs, which by every economist's light, every respectable economist says, this is just insanity. This makes absolutely no sense.

It's going to needlessly raise prices for Americans. It's going to start a trade war that the Wall Street Journal called the dumbest trade war in history. But here we go, unless of course the president decides to pull the rug out from everybody once again at the last minute and say, oh well, you know, we'll forget about this, we'll postpone them. He likes to do that. He likes to play Lucy in the football. Yeah, the Wall Street Journal's editorial board continues this morning, as Gene mentioned, its steady criticism of these proposed tariffs. The new piece titled A Six Trillion Dollar Trump Tax Increase, the journal writes this, financial markets have the shakes as President

Trump prepares to launch his next big tariff salvo on Wednesday. And nerves are appropriate since Mr. Trump's chief trade adviser, Peter Navarro, is boasting about what he says will amount to a six trillion dollar tax increase from the tariffs. In the real economic world, a tariff is a tax. If you raise $600 billion more a year in revenue for the federal government, you are taking that amount away from individuals and businesses in the private economy. By any definition, that is a tax increase, and the $600 billion figure would be one of the largest in U.S. history.

Americans are being told to accept the pain of higher prices, a slower economy, and shrinking 401K balances in the name of Mr. Trump's project to transform the American economy into what he imagines it was like in the McKinley era of the 1890s. The I couldn't care less quote Charlie Sykes that the president gave to Kristen Welker over the week when she raised the prospect of Americans having to pay more, a lot more for their cars because of these tariffs saying he couldn't care less. How is this playing in a place like Wisconsin? Well, I have to tell you that, you know, if you go to coffee shops and truck stops in the Midwest, you won't find many

people saying, hey, you know, I wish we could go back to the McKinley years. I wish we could be more like the 1890s. This is not what people voted for. And it's really interesting that he's being hit from the right, from the Wall Street Journal, which is pointing out that he is about to impose unilaterally one of the largest tax increases in American history, if not world history. And think about that in terms of what conservatives used to claim that they were in favor of what Republicans used to say about massive tax increases. And yes, it's all a show with Donald Trump. He may impose it one day, he may impose it another, but he can't have it both ways. He can't count on the revenue from the tariffs at the same time that he is on and off. So what we're seeing here,

of course, is just tremendous uncertainty. Small businessmen, investors, who just simply do not know how to plan. And uncertainty is really deadly to an economy because nobody knows what to invest in, how to plan, what their prices are going to be. And so you're seeing this showing up in consumer confidence as well as the stock market.

So again, I don't think a lot of people had on their business, on their bingo cards that in the first hundred days of the Trump administration that he would push this country this far toward a word that we hadn't heard in years, stagflation. Whether we have a recession or not, you're hearing more and more people talk about stagflation. And that was not what was on the agenda last November. Charlie Sykes, thank you. Always good to have you on. We appreciate it.

And still ahead on Morning Joe, the White House is trying to turn the page on the signal group chat controversy. Even though a growing number of lawmakers, including some Republicans, are calling for an investigation since this pertains to our national security. Plus, a behind-the-scenes look at the 2024 election, including what propelled Donald Trump into the Oval Office and Democrats into the wilderness. The authors of the new book, Fight Inside the Wildest Battle for the White House. Join us ahead on Morning Joe. We're back in 90 seconds.

Welcome back. Time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. It's 24 past the hour. Israel's military says it carried out an airstrike inside Lebanon this morning. The attack targeted a member of Hezbollah on the outskirts of Beirut. It's the second attack near Lebanon's capital in less than a week. Renewed fighting has prompted fears that the ceasefire between the two sides could unravel. A federal bankruptcy judge rejected Johnson & Johnson's request to approve a $9 billion settlement. Tens of thousands of people are suing the company over its claims that its telecom powder

caused cancer. The court said the company used a flawed process to solicit votes to accept the deal. The company has maintained that its talc products are safe. And Oscar-winning director Sam Mendes is making four separate Beatles movies. Each will follow a different member of the band. Paul Meskal is playing Paul McCartney. Joseph Quinn is starring as George Harrison. Barry Kiyogan will portray Ringo Starr and Harris

Dickinson will play John Lennon. Mendy says the Beatles story was simply too huge to fit into a single film. All four movies will be released in theaters in April of 2028. I know someone who's going to be very interested in watching all four in succession. Oh my God. That's a lot of Beatles. A binge movie. That's a lot of Beatles. Yeah. All right.

More lawmakers are calling this morning for an investigation into the Signal Group chat where national security officials added a journalist, Jeffrey Goldberg, to a discussion about attack plans. But the White House is trying to say the case is closed. Senate Democrats sent a letter to the Attorney General yesterday asking for a special counsel to look into the national security breach. House Democrats on the Intel Committee made a similar request to the Director of National Intelligence. Democrats on the Intel committee made a similar request to the director of national intelligence.

Some Republican lawmakers also voicing concerns on Sunday. Senator James Langford of Oklahoma said an independent investigation is, quote, entirely appropriate. A number of House Republicans also echoing that sentiment. But the White House maintains there's nothing more to do here. I mean, it's real. I think the words speak for themselves. I mean, it's been made public.

I do think, I know Senator Roger Wicker has requested an IG investigation into this. And I think the real question is were any American fear, risk by this. Do you think they were? I don't know. I don't know, but I think that's the question. As the president has made it very clear, Mike Waltz continues to be an important part of his national security team.

And this case has been closed here at the White House as far as we are concerned. There have been steps made to ensure that something like that can obviously never happen again. And we're moving forward. And the president and Mike Walz and his entire national security team have been working together very well. If you look at how much safer the United States of America is because of the leadership of

this team. So, John, you have some Senate Democrats suggesting this needs to go to the attorney general and that she, Pam Bond, needs to do something about it. The problem is she has said a couple of times now that this was just a mistake and it's time to move on acting more like a White House spokesperson than the attorney general. Yeah, the Department of Justice has made clear they want nothing to do with this, the FBI as well. They're not going to look into this matter.

We heard there, that was White House Press Secretary Karen Levitt gaggling on the driveway yesterday, suggesting that the White House considers the matter closed. As I reported last week, there's certainly some deep unhappiness in Trump world, particularly about Mike Waltz, the national security adviser, that they feel like this has been a this was sloppy. It was a distraction. But the president doesn't want to give, in his words, a scalp to Democrats, and particularly the media. He doesn't he was reminded of how how many how chaotic his first term was.

A lot of early exits, including his then national security advisor, Mike Flynn. They don't want to go down that road again. I don't think Waltz's job security is, I think, still somewhat tenuous, but Mike Allen, he's not going anywhere, at least not yet. We're seeing the White House desperately try to turn the page, and tomorrow they're going to get a lot of headlines from Liberation Day because the economy is probably going to react very poorly to that.

But talk to us about what you're hearing from Republicans, because there does a sense, I talked to some Trump advisors, we talked about this in the show yesterday. This is the first story they feel like, well, this one's stuck. This one has done some damage. And their efforts to turn the page quickly may not work. That's right. And a big factor in that is the fact that the national security advisor Mike Walz already had some people who didn't like his style, didn't like some of his personnel choices.

There was a feeling that there's a former Green Moray, a former congressman who's used to being the star, and he's now national security advisor, is a staff role. And he has a big boss, Suzy Wiles, the chief of staff, and a very big boss, the president. And so Axios reports that behind the scenes, flying back from Greenland, the Vice President Vance, Mike Walz both in Greenland. On the way back, the Vice President had a little talk with Walz about working collaboratively. And that's why he's there for a while. And the President, who, behind the scenes,

considered firing him, but cooled down, talked himself out of it, and he is keeping this team for a while, does not want to give a win to critics. So, interesting. Not only has this stuck, it's the style in which the White House went to push back the Signal story that I think really turned a lot of people off. Sort of the arrogant pushback, blaming the reporter, lots of different reasons, look over here, look over there.

And especially for military families, the signal chat scandal, the revelation as to how they were so flagrantly communicating about an imminent attack, all caps, emojis. For military families, that really cuts deep because they need to know that they can trust the defense sector, the foreign policy experts, the national security advisors, the defense secretary, and those who run our military, John Heilman, in a way that makes them feel, know, that this country is doing everything they can to keep their family members safe. And that, clearly, was such a breach.

It's chilling. And so the pushback for them, especially, and this is what I've heard personally, was even more upsetting because they don't know what to believe now. Right. And you know, Mika, obviously I think that is something, there's been reporting on this in a bunch of places, including the New York Times, about the ripple through active duty, the families of active duty military currently and in the veterans community.

This is one of these things where Donald Trump has over the course of his time in public life done a lot of things, said a lot of things, is reported to have said a lot of things that people thought on the face of them should have alienated the community, the constituency of veterans and military, including some things that Jeff Goldberg reported in the past. And yet none of them have really stuck to Trump. This is a little different. And I think you may be on to something because unlike some of those cases where it was still the case that if you Trump claimed fake news, he said a hundred times, even though there have been lots of

corroborations of it, that he never referred to people in the military, suckers and losers. If you wanted to believe that that was fake news, there was no recording of it. You could believe, you could be convinced by Donald Trump that that was fake news. This is one of these stories that really has transcended politics, and it's one of those stories that's really cut into the culture because it's such a relatable story, and maybe this is the kind of thing that will have more of a lasting effect on the way that people in the military and veterans of the military look at Donald Trump and the people around him because this is the thing that no one's really denying that it happened.

You can't deny that it happened. And the way the pushback is being handled, as you said, is very, I'd say, not just disingenuous, but disrespectful. Yeah. And to add to that, John, just one other thing. I don't think it's specifically Trump. I think it's the people around him that they are really questioning. Mike Waltz opened the chat, included Jeffrey Goldberg, and then proceeded to defame him

and accuse them of somehow sneaking into the chat, which is ludicrous. But then you have Pete Hegseth, and you have the secretary of Defense seemingly excitedly announcing these attack plans on signal in all caps and really seeming to enjoy being able to release this information to a large group of people in a number of places over a commercial app, which is just beyond irresponsible for anyone. And you don't have to be in the intelligence community to know this. Then add to that the recent reports that he's bringing his wife and other family members to high-level meetings.

It just doesn't feel serious. And if you're a member of the military or you're a family member of someone in the military, this is as serious as a heart attack. And nothing about it is funny and nothing no excuse that is given is enough. They want answers. They want changes in policies and procedures. They want to know this isn't happening right now and it will never happen again and nothing that the White House or Pete Hegseth or Mike Walz has done has helped with that at all.

John Eilman and Mike Allen, thank you both very much for coming on this morning. Coming up, we'll take a break from politics and turn to sports and the latest success by a major league baseball player using a trendy new torpedo-style bat. Morning Joe, we will be right back. Oh Oh wow! In your life have you seen anything like that? Fern Lundquist with the call, not just one of the greatest shots in Masters history, but in golf history. 2005 at Augusta, Tiger Woods dropping that chip as he battled for what would be the fourth green jacket of his career.

Our next guest was with Tiger for three of those Masters wins as well as nine other major victories. Joining us now is former caddy Steve Williams who you saw in that high five at Augusta. He was on the bag for Tiger from 99 to 2011. He's the co-author of the new book, Together We Roared, alongside Tiger for his epic 12-year, 13 majors run. Steve, thanks for being on the show.

We appreciate it. It's so much to ask you here, but just watching that shot, can you tell me about the conversation leading up to that shot, that iconic shot at Augusta in 2005. What the two of you were thinking there. Yeah, Tiger, he got up to the shot there and had a pretty good look at it obviously and tried to pick out a spot where the

ball wouldn't we had landed on the green where it was sort of wouldn't go too far up that hill where it gathered too much speed and then come racing back down the hole and amazingly he pointed out a pitch mark which was on the green and said you know Stevie do you think if I land it somewhere near that pitch mark that'll won't gather too much speed and that was amazing because he actually landed exactly on that pitch mark. I mean he could stand there for the rest of his life

and probably never hold that shot. So yeah it was a pretty special moment obviously. Wow. So Steve Tiger Woods, one of the absolute greatest. We're not quite sure when he'll play next coming off of another injury, but just talk to us a little bit about the longevity here. Obviously, his career has had some real ups and downs, but to have another act here in his recent years, your run with him and he continued to go, speak to us about just what you saw all along. Did you have hints that he would be this good for this long because the

duration of his career is part of what makes him so remarkable? Yeah look in professional golf there's probably nobody ever that's had the amount of desire to continually to improve throughout his entire career and just keep working hard to do well. And you know, in professional sports and golf, there's lots of fortune and fame come your way as you gain success. And sometimes that success and all that fortune and fame come can make your career slow down a little bit and you take your foot off the gas a little bit. But this guy, Tiger, is a very special

individual in the golfing world because he just kept wanting to get better and better and better and keep working towards getting better and better and better and never took his foot off the gas. So his desire, his dedication and his focus to keep getting better is unlike anyone we've ever seen in golf. And he's a student of the game, a massive history historian of the game. And he just wanted to keep breaking all the records and get better and better. So, you know, a remarkable mental ability

to block everything out and just try and get better and better and better all the time. Steve, this is Gene Robinson. When I think of that epic run with Tiger and you on the back, I think of him making shots that no other golfer would even attempt. Shots out of the rough, shots out of fairway bunkers especially, where you had to put spin on the ball from a place where you can't really spin it, or you had to keep it low but it

had to still land softly. It's just stuff that nobody would even try and yet he pulls off. Did you, in your pre-shot conversations, did you suggest that he do the impossible or was that more Tiger? Yeah, I agree. A period of time when you get used to working for a player and you end up with a sense of you know when they're gonna try something when they're not gonna try something and I was always well known for walking at a pretty quick pace so when I got up to the ball ahead of Tiger I'd be a good 30 seconds ahead of him generally and I'll have an understanding straight away whether this was a shot that he was

going to attempt or not. And yeah, look, he pulled off, if you had a highlight reel of all the shots that he pulled off that were remarkable. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. But yeah, he, he had complete trust in himself. And, and to be fair, uh, you wouldn't realize, but a guy like Tiger, he practiced a lot of these shots out of the rough and from time to time, a lot of these big hooks, big fades, high shots, low shots, impossible shots, even shots where you sometimes, you know,

you get on your hands and knees and hit a few balls on the drive and rains on your, on your knees. So, you know, whilst there was some amazing shots that a lot of those, and to be fair, there's always a little bit of luck in some of these shots, but also the shots that sometimes you'd actually practice and, you know, the skill set was amazing. Steve, you mentioned the word trust, that he had so much trust in his ability, but also so much trust in you. For people who don't really know golf at the level that you all competed, there has to be that trust. You're brothers in some way to get the right club, to get the right shot,

to get the right distance, to know that you'll keep your relationship private and all of those things. And at some point that trust went away for you too. You had some harsh things to say about Tiger in your previous book and when he had the car accident in 2009 and this all opened up, you said in this new book you didn't hear from him for months. So at what point did that trust start to go a little bit sideways and where are you today with him? You know you worked alongside a guy like Tiger who's obviously an amazing athlete

to work alongside and now we had an incredible relationship and obviously through the scandal and things we didn't connect as much as I'd like to connect and when I went back to work for Tiger, following his scandal, things just weren't the same. There wasn't the same connection between the two of us. And that happens, you know, you totally understand the relationship between a player and caddie,

that things change from time to time and that. So, and through time, everything, everything is an old saying that time heals. And it's very true. The last time I saw Tiger a couple of years ago at a tournament in Los Angeles, although I don't cat anymore, I was just filling in for a couple of weeks for a friend, catting and everything was good. So, yeah, look, Evan and I are hugely proud of the book and we've sent Tiger a copy of the book and I really feel like if he read the book it'd be a great memory lane for him as well as myself.

So like I said, Evan and I are hugely proud of the book. There's some sort of never heard before stories behind the scenes of Tiger and Ice and some great memorabilia shots in there, photos of different memorabilia that I was able to collect from Tiger and some personal notes and stuff. So yeah, it's a great book and we're really proud of it.

You know, Steve, Willie talked about, and John talked about Tiger being able to sort of push aside all the distractions. You look at the great ones in many sports. One of the best things I've ever heard, like his story, Mariano Rivera, you know, the greatest of all time relief pitcher, gives up a home run in a crucial spot.

His teammates expect him to be crushed. They go into the plane and he's got his headphones in and he's back and he's singing and whistling, eyes closed. It's like, you know, he shut that out because he knew tomorrow was another day. Tiger from the second he stepped onto the golf course, he had all these distractions. All the world was looking at him all the time. And I'm just curious, talk about the mental toughness. Talk about the routine with all the distractions he always had

from the earliest of ages when he stepped on the golf course. How did he once he stepped on the course, shut how did he, once he stepped on the course, shut all of that out and just focus on the next shot? Yeah, that's an incredible skill to have. You've got to be able to compartmentalize and I don't think anybody's been ever, you know, in golf has been better at being able to compartmentalize like Tyga has been able to do. You know, from a very young age, Tyga was, you know, had huge expectations on him and, you know, from a very young age, Ty had huge expectations on him and he learned very quickly from his amateur days what was expected and what was likely going to happen when he got on to the tour and the fanfare he got when he got on to the tour. It's just a skill set that he was able to develop very quickly and he was able to put

everything behind him and focus every day on what was ahead of him. He had a good team of people around him all the time and that enabled him and focus every day on what was ahead of him. You know, he had a good team of people around him all the time and that enabled him to focus on his job and separate, you know, to be able to go to the golf course. And, you know, I played somewhat of a bodyguard enforcer type role to enable him to, when he was at the golf course, practicing and to keep people away so that he could focus on his job.

When he was going to the golf course, that was his work office, that's his space, and he wanted to dedicate his time efficiently every time he came to the golf course. So yeah, that's a skill set that's worthy of any major champion in sport. The new book, Together We Roared, alongside Tiger for his epic 12-year, 13 majors run,

is on sale now, co-author and major winning caddy, Steve Williams. Thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. Congratulations on the book. Good to have you. It's great to have him here. And you know, Amir, who else has that talent? Who?

Rafi Devers. Rafi Devers. But you're thinking he's gonna have to hit the 92 mile an hour fastball floating across the center of the plate. But he remains focused on striking out and he's done an extraordinary job. He has the ability to strike out, put his head down, go back to the dugout, gather himself, come back to the plate, strike out again.