Morning Joe - Morning Joe 4/25/23

Episode Date: April 25, 2023

Biden announces he is running for re-election, framing 2024 as a choice between 'more rights or fewer'

Hi, I'm Jimmy Fallon, one of the few TV personalities who's still employed. Tucker Carlson, Don Lemon, what the hell's going on out there? Everyone's talking about this today. Fox News announced that they are parting ways with Tucker Carlson. Some people aren't sure what led to his exit, but Fox said they can think of almost a billion reasons why. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Tuesday, April 25th.

Along with Joe, Willie and me, we have the host of way too early, White House bureau chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, former White House director of communications under President Obama. Jen Palmieri, she's co-host of Showtime's The Circus, Pulitzer Prize winning columnist and associate editor of The Washington Post, Eugene Robinson, and attorney and contributing columnist for The Washington Post. George Conway joins us this morning. It's great to have all of you here. Willie, why don't you hold up Morning Joe's official newspaper of record

and let's see what's on the front of it. What do we got? It's happening, Joe. It's happening. Aaron Rodgers coming to the New York Jets. Leaving the Green Bay Packers. It's going to be an exciting new era for the team that has not been to the playoffs in a dozen years. It's going to also be very, very exciting for headline writers at the New York Post as conspiracy theories spill out at postgame press conferences. I mean, my God,

this is like a dream come true for the headline writers at the Post. Yeah, Jets fans are excited. They've needed a quarterback for a long time. They had Zach Wilson for a couple of years as an early pick That didn't quite work out the way they'd hoped it was. So they got their man. He was an MVP just two seasons ago. He can still sling it. But, yes, he does come with a lot of extra storylines as well. Jonathan O'Meara, the Jets had a pretty good team last year, top to bottom.

Quarterback problems, obviously, but they started off strong. Aaron Rodgers could actually be a puzzle that fits right into their plans. Might be, I don't know, might be the vaccine that they need to get rid of loser's-itis. Well done, Joe. You did your own research before that particular comment. Yeah, look, the Jets have a strong defense. They've got some good skill players. This is the kind of move you make

when you're one player away. Rodgers did show some signs of slippage last year. He's certainly an upgrade as to what they've had, frankly, just about ever at the quarterback position for the New York Jets. Their fear, though, is if he goes into another darkness retreat during the season, that might cost them a couple of games.

Well, and they obviously hope as well, Willie, that he doesn't start blaming conspiracy theories surrounding Jeffrey Epstein on, let's say, a defensive scheme that doesn't work during, you know, a game against the Patriots or something else. So, you know, there's, again, a lot of material for the New York Post headline writers. Yeah, he has apparently some thoughts and theories about 9-11 also, which might be interesting to the to the New York media. We will see. Mika, I understand we have some news that might be a little bit more important than Aaron Rodgers.

Actually, President Joe Biden officially running for reelection. This just happened. He just announced his 2024 plans in a new video out right now, exactly four years to the day after he jumped into the 2020 race. Take a look. Freedom. Personal freedom is fundamental to who we are as Americans. There's nothing more important, nothing more sacred. That's been the work of my first term, to fight for our democracy. This shouldn't be a red or blue issue. To protect our rights, to make sure that everyone in this country is treated equally, and that

everyone is given a fair shot at making it. But you know, around the country, MAGA extremists are lining up to take on those bedrock freedoms. Cutting social security that you paid for your entire life, while cutting taxes for the very wealthy. Dictating what healthcare decisions women can make. Banning books and telling people who they can love, all while making it more difficult for you to be able to vote. When I ran for president four years ago,

I said we're in a battle for the soul of America. And we still are. The question we're facing is whether in the years ahead, we have more freedom or less freedom. More rights or fewer. I know what I want the answer to be, and I think you do too. This is not a time to be complacent. That's why I'm running for re-election Because I know America I know we're good and decent people I know we're still a country that believes in honesty and respect

And treating each other with dignity That we're a nation where we give hate no safe harbor We believe that everyone is equal That everyone should be given a fair shot to succeed in this country. Thank you for choosing us. Every generation of Americans has faced a moment when they have to defend democracy,

stand up for our personal freedom, stand up for the right to vote and our civil rights. And this is our moment. We, the people, are not inside. We're not blowing up. We are right here! We, the people, are not inside. God bless you. We are Biden! Yeah! So if you're with me, go to JoeBiden.com inside.

Let's finish this job. I know we can. Because this is the United States of America. There's nothing, simply nothing we cannot do if we do it together. All right. That that video released by the Biden-Harris campaign just moments ago, Jen Palmieri, I heard some key phrases there that we've heard before from President Biden. Let's finish the job. What can we expect in the next few weeks? Will Democrats get behind President Biden? Yeah. I mean, I think if anybody thought that they could beat him, they would be running. The fact that, you know, there's I think they're going into this race with a great record of accomplishment, a lot more of it that can be done.

You know, Biden even laid out an agenda in that video. Low approval ratings. It's a difficult time to be president. It's a very divided country. But if somebody thought that they could win the nomination, if somebody thought that they could do better than him in the general election, they would be running. And nobody thinks that because they think, you know, Biden is a person that we have coalesced around four years ago and still the best person to unite the country. And if it's Trump, that's the you know, that's the best move. And if it's not, Biden proved in the midterms that we could he can also defeat Trumpism, even if it's a different kind of MAGA Republican that's at the head of the ticket. So, Gene, for all the polling we've seen where even Democrats say we don't want Joe Biden to run for reelection, if you ask the second question, which is, will you vote for him if he does it? Well, of course. Oh, yeah, of course. So it's getting into the race.

As Jen said, it's keeping other people out of the race. Exactly. That video goes that extremism that we've seen Republicans abortion guns, things like that. Abortion guns. You saw cameos by Marjorie Taylor Greene and Ron DeSantis. Interestingly, I don't know if we saw Donald Trump or not, but we certainly saw DeSantis. So, yeah, that was that's the argument. And a big part of Joe Biden's argument in 2020 was I'm reason I'm sanity. And this other party is crazy. And so please vote for me. And that's going to be the argument again. And the argument, John, which is similar in 2020, which is we need to stop Donald Trump from sitting in the White House. And Joe Biden did that job in 2020. It's his job again in 2024. The age question is out there. It's not us saying it. It's polling that says it even among Democrats who support Joe Biden. He'll be pushing his 82nd birthday on Election Day. He would be 86 at the

end of his second term. We should point out Donald Trump would be the second oldest president. He's about to be 77 years old. Yeah, he's just a few years, few years younger there. This was the president has since taking office has said it was his expectation to run again. He always would caveat it that he's a believer in in fate. The knowledge of things could change. But this was always his plan. It's going to be a very slow election ramp up here. This is about raising money. This is about starting the fundraising process for the money that's going to be needed for what will be an extraordinarily expensive general election campaign. Today, though, he is giving a speech about his manufacturing plans. He's addressing a union in D.C., which is appropriate enough. We should also note the vice president today addressing about abortion

rights. So that is the pillars here. It's the economic comeback and it's the women's right to choose and personal freedoms. Those are what this administration has been about. And that's what this campaign is going to be about. And yes, a potential rematch with Donald Trump looms. That's a race this White House likes. They think that they would beat him again. And we're obviously a long way from November 2024. But that journey starts today. Joe, we also noted the four of us sitting at the table, a lot of Vice President Harris in that video to go along with the message about extremism

on the other side. Yeah, I mean, there's been a lot of talk about the Vice President and are they gonna replace the Vice President? And you always get this, by the way, you always get this, by the way, you always get this. The vice president's always turned into a secondary figure for good reason, but also a lot of people leading up to reelection campaigns to say, well, are they going to dump this? But no, she's she's there.

She's their voice on abortion. Yeah. And she certainly has been their voice on abortion. She had a successful trip to Africa. And and Gene Robinson, there's absolutely no reason why they should upset the apple cart. As as as I said, Joe Biden not only beat Donald Trump, Joe Biden did something that no Democratic well, actually, no president has done since 1934 with FDR. And he actually picked up seats, governor seats in his first midterm reelection. He also did, obviously, extraordinarily well leading the party during the midterms in the United States Senate as well. And wildly outperformed Kevin McCarthy's own expectations in the House. These numbers, these soft numbers right now, this matters as much as the soft numbers in the summer and the fall of 2022. And people whining, Democrats especially, whining and whimpering

and bedwetting about how weak Joe Biden is. Go back and look at what you were saying in the summer and the fall of 2022, how there was going to be a red wave. It never materialized because Biden is normal. There's craziness everywhere. When people pick up the phones, do they go, oh my God, I'm so excited about it. Hope and change. It's morning in America.

Zippity-doo-dah. Hope and change. It's morning in America. Zippity doodah. No, no. What they do is they think, you know, he's all right. And then they go into the voting booth and they go. Normalcy. Like America is America again. There's not the fascism. There's not the radicalism. There's not the violent overthrow of governments attempted. Here's a guy that does his job, works with Republicans, gets things done. That may not show up in polls a year later, but that's something that probably will put the Democrats back in the White House for another four years. No, I think it probably will. I mean, you know, all the hand-wringing. God gave Democrats hands in order to wring them, right?

And that's what Democrats do. And frankly, I think the sort of, you know, will they dump the vice president? It's been particularly, and I think unfairly, intense about this vice president, about Vice President Harris. She connects with parts of the Democratic base in a really important and valuable and significant way that I think people don't acknowledge enough. And so this is the team. This is the team that won in 2020. This is a team that's going to run again in 2024 and make the same argument, I think, that they made, except they've got the accomplishments also to tout. And then the abortion issue is so salient now that that's going to be a big part of this campaign.

And to that, Jen, there was never any suggestion that President Biden was going to dump the vice president. In fact, how prominently she features here in the video is part of what aides have been saying to me all along. There's an understanding the vice president is going to play a much more central role to the campaign this time around. And it is it's an implicit acknowledgement of the president's age that, you know, he is 80. He will be 82 years old taking another term in office. That's by far the oldest president we've ever had. She is indeed one heartbeat away. The Republican attacks have already started. They're going to be making that argument. And the Biden team wants to say, look, we are not only comfortable with

this choice, we're excited about the choice. She's part of us. Right. And you see her as part, I mean, that was a very, we saw her a lot in that video. That was a very deliberate thing. And I know from, you know, doing these kinds of things, these kinds of videos before, you think really carefully about how you're going to present the whole, the team, those two as a pair. And it does show, I think that, you know, I've written a lot about this, about how she's, about how Harris in particular, first woman, first woman of color, is sort of covered in this job and treated in this job. But when you see what she's actually doing, the trip down to Nashville, all of the work on abortion, a lot of the work on voting rights. And all the foreign policy, too.

The foreign policy trip to Africa. She is an incredible sort of crimmer in foreign policy. These are key issues for the Biden-Harris team. And it is, you know, they want to show you this is part, this is our leadership team. She is very much part of it. And it's smart to back her that way. Yeah. We're going to move now to the surprising announcement from Fox News yesterday that it has parted ways with right-wing host Tucker Carlson. Both the New York Times and the Washington Post cite a source who say the decision to let Carlson go was made on Friday by Lachlan Murdoch, who is the CEO of Fox Corporation, and Suzanne Scott, who is the chief executive of Fox News Media. I just, I don't buy

that. Anybody, I mean, I got to stop right there. Anybody that has dealt with Fox News over the past several years, they don't believe that either. This was a decision made by Rupert Murdoch. He doesn't want to go on the stand again. Let's bring in George Conway here. He doesn't want to go on the stand again. He doesn't want to face any of this. There's more lawsuits. Yeah, there are more lawsuits.

And again, I'm really surprised. I mean, I understand reporters are fed what reporters are fed. But the first story was correct. And it was Steve Battaglio with L.A. Times saying, this decision came from Rupert Murdoch. Every time I talk to somebody over the past several years saying, who's calling the shots there? Who's calling the big shots? Why aren't there guardrails around Tucker Carlson? Or the same thing. He and Lachlan are tight, but it goes up to Rupert. Rupert would be the one making that decision, and he's disengaged.

So the truth, it seems, George Conway slipped out at first, and that is that this was a decision made by Rupert Murdoch. Because come on, who's going to fire the most popular host, one of the most popular hosts in Fox history? It ain't going to be anybody under Rupert Murdoch, is it? It's impossible. I mean, it was their highest rated show. It was their show that made the most money. And so, you know, it had to go up to Rupert. If anything goes up to Rupert Murdoch, it would have to be that. And he would be remiss as the chairman of the board not

to have had any involvement in the decision. So I think that's absolutely right. I mean, I think the story that it was something that was made at a much lower level is just poppycock. And the fact of the matter is, I mean, Suzanne Scott has just almost as much culpability for what has happened to Fox News and the seven hundred and eighty seven point five million dollar payout as some of these anchors. I mean, she was the one she was the to the Dominion lawsuit, which, of course, ended in a seven hundred and eighty seven million dollar settlement. You wonder, are they're getting their ducks in the row for dealing with the same problem, saying the problem is gone or do you not see any potential parallel here or connection? Well, that is an interesting, that's an interesting point. I mean, I think you could go two ways on this. One is you could decide to fire him before all these other lawsuits get resolved because you want to be able to show that you're trying to clean house. On the other hand, it's kind of an admission of liability in a way. I mean, it's an admission that your people,

at least some of them, engaged in misbehavior. I think the reason why the former choice was made, the first choice to get rid of it now is made, is that the $787.5 million settlement payment is basically a it's a floor for the Smartmatic case. They've already the truth has already come out. And so that's why I think they decided, well, let's just do this now and get it over with. So, Joe, there's the question of the inner workings of Fox News and what prompted this. And then there is the question of Tucker's role in our culture, frankly, and not not just in conservative culture, but in American culture. And I think you understand that better than anybody sitting around the table here, which is you had people from all over. You had podcasters and talk show hosts and the former president, the United States and other prominent figures in the Republican Party, members of Congress lamenting this decision and saying that Tucker, you know, in some ways was

as big a figure recently as someone like Rush Limbaugh. What's your reaction to all this? Well, I thought yesterday it was one of the more surprising announcements. And yes, I know that Bill O'Reilly sometimes got higher ratings than Tucker Carlson. But Tucker Carlson held a unique position in the debate over the future of America. We've had a debate in America. There have been people on the Trump right that have turned their backs on Western democracy, that have turned their backs on basic American freedoms, that have declared war against some institutions that conservatives used to actually be the most strident defenders of. And rightfully, the United States military, the men and women in uniform.

Tucker Carlson was the guy who told all of his followers that they were woke and that the military was going to bring helicopters that they used against people in Afghanistan, the Taliban in Afghanistan, and they were going to come use them against Americans. It was a sickening, sickening attack of the proud men and women who serve in uniform every day and protect our country. The same thing said about law enforcement personnel. The same thing said about our college campuses, which, again, I've been critical of for years. But this idea that they're completely bankrupt and nobody's learning anything there is just absolutely preposterous. Our universities are the greatest on the planet. People all over the world

send their children here and again, attacks on the intel community. But there's a straight line, George Conway. If you look, there's a straight line. And the support for autocrats are people with autocratic urges who actually despise Western democracy, despise freedom, despise the rule of law, despise a free press. And they're always attacking it. It's Donald Trump in the United States, Viktor Orban in Hungary and Vladimir Putin in Russia. And those three, and that's sort of, I guess that's sort of the line that goes straight across the through line. And Tucker Carlson, in the opinion of me, and in the opinion of a lot of people who actually have long been defenders of Western democracy, was on the wrong side of every one of those, the debates surrounding those leaders and seemed to embrace the autocrats and constantly mock

the institutions that uphold Western democracy. That's absolutely right. I mean, remember, Tucker's the guy who went to Budapest to hang out with Orban. And he's always been you know, he's always been supportive, essentially, of Putin's position in the Ukraine war, which is that we have no business. The United States has no business defending democracy there. And it's really a business of Russia's and that Ukraine really is part of Russia, or at least the Crimea is. And he, you know, he is that that is absolutely.

And that's the appeal of him to the MAGA base, because they want to they want to make things simpler for themselves. They don't want to think for themselves. Democracy is complicated. Democracy is messy. Democracy is diversity. We don't like that. These people who watch Fox News and Tucker appeals to that, not just the authoritarian streak, but also, you know, the great replacement theory.

He wants to gin up the gin up the right, you know, with racism. We should also note that Tucker Carlson has the January 6th security tapes from House Bureau Kevin McCarthy. Curious as to what happens to those now. Gene, I want to also bring you in on, I think this can't be overstated, to Joe's point about just what a loud voice, the loudest voice he probably had in conservative media and the timing of this as the GOP primary starts to shake out. I heard in the minutes after this announcement yesterday from several people very close to former President Trump who were outraged at this, who were already calling for Trump supporters to boycott Fox News, to not watch any longer.

Donald Trump Jr. later went on publicly to condemn the decision. You know, in the early stages of this race with Trump in the lead and DeSantis trying to find his footing, other candidates jumping in, how do you think this departure is going to impact that? You know, it's a good question. It kind of depends on how Fox plays it from here on out. I mean, how do they, you know, they're not going to have a permanent host to replace Tucker immediately. But how does the tenor of Fox News deal with this Republican contest? You know, Trump or DeSantis? Trump or not Trump, basically?

Where is their emphasis and where is their tilt? And so, we'll find out. I don't know what they've decided, frankly. I don't know which way they'll go. I do know it is extraordinary. We're talking about a cable TV host. And yeah, a lot of people watch Fox, but not all that many compared to the U.S. population. And it's the lead story in the New York Times. It's the lead story in the Washington Post. You know, it's an incredible moment. It is not the lead story in the New York Post, however, owned by Rupert Murdoch, which led with Aaron Rodgers.

And even inside just has Tucker as a little sort of thing inside. You know, Tucker's going. We wish him well. Yeah, Jen, it was interesting. We were talking about Donald Trump was on Newsmax last night and he was asked about this. It was kind of a tempered for him anyway. He said, yeah, I'm surprised by the news. Tucker was always terrific to me. It wasn't a full broadside against Fox News, which he, I suspect, knows he's going to need as he goes through this campaign here. But Steve Battaglia made the point as well that, you know,

everyone said when Bill O'Reilly left Fox News, the place is going to crumble. He's the tent post. Here comes Tucker, becomes arguably the most popular and influential host in their history. Yeah, I mean, I do find it like I do find it sort of perplexing. Remember last week we heard that Jeannie Jeanine Hero and that Maria Bartiromo might get fired. Those are people who were telling lies on air, but believe them. Right. And then Tucker does get fired. He's somebody, you know, nothing about Sean Hannity, nothing about Laura Ingram. Didn't Trump just do an interview with Tucker recently? Right. That just happened.

You know, Trump was being let back in after being sort of shadow banned from Fox for months. He did an interview with Tucker. It was the first time since September that he had done one. And then he gets fired. Yeah. Right. So it is, you know, If Fox seems to still be trying. I don't know. Maybe it's very possible they don't know what they're doing.

I mean, that I know in politics, a lot of times people think that things are more complicated and more, you know, more orchestrated than they really than they really are. But they don't seem to have figured out where, you know, where they are in relation to Trump. They'll and, you know, Tucker Carlson's got a big following. And it's 2023. He could go somewhere. He could have his own platform. He could go to another outlet and take, you know, and possibly take viewers with him. Maybe the others weren't as critical of Fox management in their texts.

And maybe that's part of it. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I think there are legal questions about whether or not there's more fallout from this within Fox News. And I think the question about the January 6 tapes

is a really big one. What exactly happens to those? Do they stay in his possession? Still ahead on. Again, that just shows how ridiculously. I know know, outrageously irresponsible it was of Kevin McCarthy. Oh, don't even start me. We're trying to go to break to send security tapes to a conspiracy theorist. Yeah. And how just again, it just mind bending that that he

sends this information to somebody who is supporting an insurrection against the United States of America and provide security tapes. That's what any insurrectionist, future insurrectionist would want to see. It's all frightening. It's really frightening. Still, McCarthy needs to get the tapes back. He does. And he needs to get lawyers to have documents signed that they're not going to be used anywhere else in the future or any of its contents revealed. And I wonder why only Kevin McCarthy has say over those security tapes. I mean, I understand he's a speaker, but there's got to be some there's got

to be some way for others to put some control over. It's really shocking. I mean, it puts the Capitol Hill police in danger. It actually puts members of Congress in danger, puts everybody in danger that works the United States Capitol. But he did it. So we're like you said, where the tapes now, where they go still ahead on Morning Joe in Georgia. The Fulton County district attorney has been investigating Trump for alleged interference in the 2020 election. And she's out with a new timeline for when we could see a possible indictment. Plus, Democratic Congressman Jim Clyburn, whose support was critical to Biden's 2020 White House win, is our guest on the heels of this morning's reelection announcement. Also ahead, the latest

from Sudan, where a temporary ceasefire has been announced as some Americans still struggle to exit the country. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. 33 past the hour. Welcome back to Morning Joe. A beautiful shot of the White House. So lush this morning in Washington, D.C. So we're going to find out this summer if former President Donald Trump will face charges in the Fulton County, Georgia investigation into possible election interference. Fulton County District Attorney Fannie Willis said she will announce a decision on charging during the state superior court's fourth term, which begins on July 11th and ends on September 1st. So there's your timeline. If charged, it would be the second

criminal indictment of the former president. Trump is currently facing charges in Manhattan on 34 counts of falsifying business records. He has pleaded not guilty in that case and calls the Georgia probe politically motivated. The new timeline comes from a letter from the district attorney to the Fulton County Sheriff asking the department to get ready for any potential response to her decision. A spokesperson for the DA's office has declined to comment. What do you make of that? What I make is what Claire McCaskill said yesterday on the cold show, justice delayed is justice denied. George Conway, why doesn't she just wait till like the start of the Paris Olympics in 2024? Maybe when the flame goes up to the Olympic torch, maybe she can drop it then.

Or maybe she can wait till 2027. I mean, this is ridiculous. This call was made on January the 2nd of 2021. We had a grand jury impaneled. They came back with multiple suggestions for indictments. She continues delay. And again, what's the problem with that? First of all, they've had all the evidence for a really long time. Secondly, the closer this comes to election season, the more political it looks, the more politicized it will be. I just again, I just I have absolutely no idea why this

has not been why this indictment hasn't been dropped a long time ago. It is one of the most serious of the charges against Donald Trump. And it appears to be, at least on the surface, one of the easiest to prove. Well, I, I, I, too, agree that I would rather see the case brought sooner rather than later, because I really think it's not helpful to have these cases brought to too close to the silly season, the election season. That being said, it's not quite as simple a case as you have just made it out to be. If it were just about that one phone call, I would agree with you. And that phone call, I think, was pretty damning evidence that Raffensperger recorded

about Trump trying to coerce him into finding the exact number of votes. But there's a lot of other things. The fake electors are a big issue. And that we've seen some papers recently that show that it may be some of those that may be that some of those fake electors are flipping on one another. And that's a big development. And that's something that's worth her pursuing. Gene, though, we already had a grand jury in Georgia. I'm not exactly sure why they have a fake grand jury and then a real grand jury. That seems really bizarre.

We have a grand jury. They're coming back, breaking news. Okay, they're suggesting numerous indictments. And then the next day, you're like, oh, she doesn't have to follow that grand jury. They have to now impanel a real grand jury. It seems duplicative. And this just seems like it's taken an awfully long time. And again, I understand. I understand you got to build your case. But my God, does it really take? We're at 27 months now. I just don't understand the delay. Yeah, it is a really weird system in Georgia that they're using where they have the grand jury to look into all this and go through all the evidence and that and then then sort of make their recommendations. Then they have to bring in a whole nother grand jury. Presumably, they don't have to go through as long a process with this new grand jury and they can get to a conclusion pretty quickly. So like everybody else, yeah, I am frustrated that if it's going to happen, let it happen and let's get on with it. But I do take George's

point about the fake electors who may be flipping others who knows may be flipping. Remember, remember when Donald Trump went on a rant about how I hate all this flipping, all this flipping. Well, it may be happening in Georgia. And that would make a much stronger case. And after all, you want to have a strong case if you're going to charge the former president. So apparently we'll wait till the summer to hear about that. Meanwhile, jury selection in the lawsuit brought by a woman who has accused Donald Trump of raping her is scheduled to begin today. Magazine columnist E. Jean Carroll says the former president sexually assaulted her in the dressing room of a department store in New York in the 1990s. Trump denies the allegation, saying the alleged incident never happened.

Carroll also is suing Trump for defaming her with his denials. The lawsuit is a civil case, meaning Trump does not face any charges. A jury could, however, order him to pay Carroll monetary damages that experts say could amount to millions of dollars. Trump has indicated he likely won't attend the trial due to, quote, logistical burdens. So, George Conway, Donald Trump infamously said a few years ago this didn't happen because, quote, she's not my type. Talking about E. Jean Carroll. But can you explain how the statute of limitations, there is a carve out in New York state law that allows Ms. Carroll to bring this lawsuit for a year here? Yeah, that's right. I mean, the original lawsuit that Gene Carroll brought was for the defamation that he engaged

in when he said basically in 2019 that she's lying. But then New York passed a statute that has revived claims of sexual assault for people who were sexually assaulted many, many years ago, and gave them a window of a year or two to file cases, old cases. And the idea, it wasn't really, it wasn't designed for this case, but it was designed generally for these old sexual harassment or sexual abuse or rape cases that have been sitting there over time and the victims had never reported it. And so that's what that's what allows this case to proceed also as a civil rape trial. And it's going to be a fascinating, fascinating moment. All right. George Conway, thank you very much for being on this morning.

A lot going on and coming up the The latest on the stalemate over spending on Capitol Hill. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy is moving forward with his original plan to raise the debt limit despite concern over support among his caucus. Plus, Senator Joe Manchin played a key role in passing the Inflation Reduction Act. Now the West Virginia Democrat is threatening to vote to repeal the landmark legislation. We'll tell you why. Also ahead, significant changes in staffing and funding are taking effect at the IRS. Steve Ratner joins us with charts on what it means for taxpayers. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. I only need 11,000 votes. Tell us, I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break. So look, all I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780

votes, which is one more than we have, because we want to say there's nothing wrong with saying that, you know, that you've recalculated. Forty five past the hour. What a beautiful day in Washington. As millions of Americans wait for their tax refunds with the April 18th filing deadline now behind us this year, significant changes in staffing and funding at the IRS have started taking effect. Our next guest says that's good news for those who follow the tax laws. Bad news for those trying to cut corners. Former Treasury official, Morning Joe, economic analyst Steve Ratner is at the big wall with his charts. Steve, the funding has revived IRS staffing and also enforcement.

So explain what that means. Sure, Mika. Well, look, today is a particularly good day to celebrate an important achievement of the Biden administration, which is to, in effect, reform, revitalize, whatever you want to call it, the IRS. So let's take a look at some of the numbers. What you see here is IRS staffing going back to 1992, and it has been going all the way down from almost 120,000 staff members down here into the 70,000 range. And that really was the Republicans kind of trying to starve the beast. If you cut off funding and staffing for the IRS, perhaps people cannot pay their taxes as religiously. And in fact, that's what's happened, as I'll show you in a second. But this has all

changed. It changed a bit with the CARES Act pushed through by Democrats, which increased funding for the IRS. And then $80 billion in the IRA is going to take staffing all the way back up to here, not all the way back to where it was, but a big, big positive boost. So why is the cut in staffing so important? Because here's what happened to the chances of an American getting audited. If you had over $10 million of adjusted gross income back in 2010, you had over a 20% chance of getting audited. That dropped, dropped, dropped, dropped, dropped. And now you're down here under 5 percent for 2019, the most recent year that we have audit statistics for, of the percentage of people getting audited.

So not all that staff, that staff is going to go do a bunch of things. But a lot of it is going to be to fix this problem and get Americans to pay their fair share, as the president has been promising. And Steve, some of that funding, as we move to your second chart, went to hiring new staff. We heard about the 87,000 new people being hired at the IRS. And contrary to some of the claims we heard from prominent Republican senators, these were not people coming to knock on your door with AR-15s. They were mostly people manning computers and answering phones. Yeah, that's exactly right, Willie. And to your point about answering phones and so forth, look at this. So this uses a lot of the money that CARES put in place, and it'll get better,

even better as the Biden money comes into place. But if you look here, you'll see that just last year, one year ago, if you called the IRS, you had maybe a 15% chance of getting your call answered. In 2023, the tax season that just ended a week or so ago, that number went up to almost 90%. And then similar to that, last year, if you got through to the IRS, you got put on hold, you waited for 27 minutes on average to get your call answered. And today, you're waiting less than five minutes to get your call answered. So they hired 5,000 people using CARES Act money to improve the service. And this is what you're getting. And it's going to get better as they continue to hire more of those 87,000 people who are not carrying AR-15s, as you said. Yeah. And that's good news just for regular people trying to get their tax refund, for example, that previously

was taking a long, long time. Let's move to your third chart, Steve, where you say IRS funding is shrinking the deficit and going after the tax gap. How's it doing that? So when people don't get audited, they tend to start to cut corners. I'm not saying they're tax evaders, but I think you could call them tax avoiders, not necessarily paying every penny of tax that under the rules they should pay. And there have been estimates done on this. Treasury did an estimate in 2016 using numbers from 2014 to 2016. And what they found was that Americans paid an average each of those years of $2.8 trillion in individual income taxes. The IRS collected $68 billion through its audit process and getting

people to pay what they owe. But there's another $428 billion a year that the IRS was not collecting because it didn't have the staff basically to enforce its rules. So as that happens, here's what the Congressional Budget Office estimate thinks is going to happen. The pink down here is the additional $80 billion of funding that Biden and Congress are providing to the IRS. All this green are the extra revenues that they project they will collect between now and 2031, about $177 billion of extra revenues, which gives you a net cumulative of $100 billion of deficit reduction over this period of time, between now and 2031. And so not only are we going to get, hopefully, people to pay their fair share of taxes,

we're going to make a noticeable dent in the budget deficit, which we all know is a huge problem that needs to be addressed. So it is a win-win for everybody, except people who are trying not to pay what they really owe to the IRS. Yeah, some important numbers in there. Perhaps the most important of all those, Steve, to your second chart. Four minute hold times we're down to with the IRS. You can only take so much of that music. That's some good news. Former Treasury official, Morning Joe economic analyst Steve Ratner. Steve, thanks so much.

Still ahead, we'll have a look at the morning papers, including the southern state seeing an increase in women from out of state seeking abortions. We'll explain when we come right back. Democratic Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia is now threatening to vote to repeal the Inflation Reduction Act, which he was a crucial player in getting passed last year. You'll remember Manchin says the Biden administration is not holding to an agreement that won Manchin's support when it comes to the cost of the bill and its push for energy independence for the United States. In a statement, Senator Manchin said if the administration does not change course on how it implements the law, he will, quote, vote to repeal my own bill.

Meanwhile, former President Trump has racked up another congressional endorsement. Senator Steve Daines, who is the head of the Senate GOP's campaign arm, made the announcement on Donald Trump Jr.'s podcast. The best four years I've had in the U.S. Senate is when President Trump was serving the Oval Office. We had a country that was respected and strong. You know, Joe Biden has empowered and emboldened our adversaries by his weakness. He just shivers under his desk during the day. And our adversaries now are getting increasingly bolder. And that's very, very dangerous for the world. And he's got one more thing that we got to finish up on. That is, let's finish building the wall and let's finish securing our southern border to protect our communities. I'll tell you, Don, meth and fentanyl and the drugs are destroying so many Montana

communities. And for these reasons and many others, I'm proud to endorse Donald J. Trump for president of the United States. Gene, that's a pretty significant move. We've got the head of the campaign arm of the United States Senate saying we are with Donald Trump at this point. It should be pointed out that Donald Trump lost them in the Senate. Exactly. I think that's why. Many, many times. I think Steve Daines is not going to make that mistake. He wants Trump inside the tent.

And I think he's hoping he's going to get better candidates out of it, or at least he's not going to get saddled with the likes of Herschel Walker and Dr. Oz. And so if he tries to keep Trump close and keep Trump happy, then maybe Trump won't, you know, give him the next insane candidate who can't win. So is this another sign, Jen, though, of also the Trump campaign being pretty professional this time around? They're lining up a lot of early endorsements. We talked a lot in recent days about how they outmaneuvered Governor DeSantis in Florida for all those lawmakers there. It's another step in the right direction. Billy Momentum.

Yeah. And they've been doing a lot of things behind the scenes that we don't necessarily see. And, you know, I'm a Democrat. I wouldn't necessarily have exposure to that are pretty smart. The fact that like the Trump staff that I would talk to say it matters that DeSantis isn't charming. It matters that Trump is, you know, I don't see that charming side of Trump, but he writes letters to people. He works endorsements. He does say things that, you know, that actually do do matter. And that's a smart move for Trump. I don't know if it is for Danes.

No, I think it's smart for Trump. And I think it does make a difference, actually made a difference in Florida. And so far, the Trump campaign is focused solely on Ron DeSantis looking to get him out of the way as Donald Trump steamrolls to the nomination potentially.