Morning Joe - Morning Joe 4/8/24

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

Israeli military pulls troops from southern Gaza

In a new interview, Donald Trump also claimed that President Biden was high on cocaine during the State of the Union, saying he was all jacked up at the beginning. By the end, he was fading fast. Huh. It almost sounds like Donald Trump knows exactly what it feels like to be on cocaine. You know, like at the beginning, you've got a lot of energy. But then by the end, you're fading fast. Just recently heard that Saudi Arabia and Russia will repeat. It's too good. There's so much. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. Projection our confession. It is Monday, April 8th. And speaking of Donald Trump, he spent the weekend trying to cut into President Biden's large lead in campaign funding.

We'll tell you about his fundraising dinner with Republican mega donors, how much he says he made and how the Biden campaign responded. Also, Congress returns to Capitol Hill today, but the increasingly chaotic atmosphere there has several House Republicans choosing to leave Washington rather than serve another term. We'll tell you what that means. Plus, an undefeated season ends up in a championship for the South Carolina women's basketball team. We'll show you how they knocked off the great Caitlin Clark and the Iowa Hawkeyes. It was an incredible game. Also today, the long-awaited total solar eclipse will move across America this afternoon. And a safety warning, if you plan on looking at the eclipse, please wear protective glasses and don't do this. No. Just FYI.

With us, we have the host of way too early, White House Bureau Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire. Don't do that, Jonathan Lemire. No, he didn't last. Do not do that. Put on Coke bottle glasses and stared straight up at least. So pretty. bottle glasses and stared straight up at it. Well, at least he put the glasses on. U.S. national editor at the Financial Times, Ed Luce, is with us. Columnist and associate editor for The Washington Post, David Ignatius. Former Supreme Allied commander of NATO, retired four-star

Navy Admiral James Tavridis is here. He is chief international analyst for NBC News and author and NBC News presidential historian Michael Beschloss joins us. Thank you all for being with us on this Monday morning. We'll begin with the Israeli military reducing its number of ground troops in southern Gaza. Officials made the announcement yesterday saying the country is pulling the 98th Commando Division out of the area to, quote, recuperate and prepare for future operations. Now, it's not clear if this is just a simple troop rotation raising fears that the Israeli military may be preparing to launch a ground defensive in Rafah, where more than a million people have sought refuge. The move comes as Israel marks six months since the October 7th terrorist attack.

Yesterday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu praised the military's achievements in the war thus far and reiterated his call to release the more than 100 hostages in Gaza, saying there will be no ceasefire until that happens. The war is now the longest involving Israel since the 1980s, and some have been questioning whether Netanyahu is dragging out the conflict to prevent the collapse of his right wing coalition and extend his time in office. This as the war has caused ramifications beyond the Gazan border. As the New York Times notes, the war has derailed efforts to normalize diplomatic relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia, prompted protests in Arab states, strained Israel's international legitimacy,

and has threatened to evolve into a regional conflict. And of course, there's the hostages and the families and the country of Israel and others who are in misery, in agony, awaiting to learn their fate. The hostages now being held over six months, it's just unspeakable what the families are going through, unspeakable about how things have been so badly mismanaged in Israel by Netanyahu from the very beginning, how badly they were mismanaged when they had information that this attack was coming and they didn't act on it. When they continued to fund Hamas, Netanyahu continued to fund Hamas. You've had over 240 people that were kidnapped on October 7th, 123 released. Four Americans among know you did, with many people involved in this conflict. There is frustration and anger on the Israeli side saying we have to go in Rafah.

We can't allow Hamas to survive. And then the rest of the world is saying you don't have the political space to kill 10,000 more civilians to achieve your military goals. So here we have this tough reality that we always talk about. Two truths. One, I believe, and I think a lot of friends of Israel believe, Hamas must be destroyed. That said, 10,000, 15,000 more civilian deaths to do that and the onset of a famine to do that is just something that is not politically possible in the United States, across the region, across the globe. So how does this play itself out over the next month? So, Joe, we're going to be watching, I think, over the next week, I'd say,

strong possibility, maybe even likelihood of a hostage deal, which would obviously be a joyous moment. You think about the six-month anniversary of this war, and you think first of how it began, just the absolute horror of October 7. I think like you and Mika had the painful experience of watching the GoPro videos of that massacre as it happened. Israelis will never forget those images. I won't either. But that's how it began, with this horrible attack that's still in the dreams and nightmares of Israelis. We have to remember that.

And then I watched from Israel, from Gaza, the confusion that is true up to this very day on the Israeli side about how this ends, about what comes after, what will Gaza be like in the future. It's something Israelis oddly never really gave systematic thought to. So we had an announcement Sunday by the IDF that they will be withdrawing all their major combat forces from Gaza. They will have one brigade left where they once had four divisions, an enormous force in Gaza that they're down to a very few people. There are no signs, I'm told, that they're actually preparing for an assault on Rafah. Netanyahu keeps talking about it, but they haven't put the troops in place, certainly haven't put the provisions for civilians in place. There is now a surge that seems to be underway finally, finally

in humanitarian assistance. There were over 330 trucks that went in yesterday, the highest number since the war began. I'm told that that number will grow this week. And finally, we have some real pressure at last on Qatar to insist that Hamas take part in this ceasefire arrangement and begin to stabilize things. I'm told that the message from President Biden to Sheikh Tamim, the ruler of Qatar, last Friday was, look, if Hamas does not agree to these terms, Hamas cannot have a place in your country where Hamas has had refuge. So finally, that would be an important move. But to sum it up, Joe, this war has brought devastation, horror to everyone. I can't imagine that Netanyahu will stay in power much longer. He's deeply unpopular in Israel. It's a war that could lead still to

a breakthrough in a more stable region. But today, looking, what you see is devastation, the enormous tragedy of war for civilians. Well, and Admiral, you read this military strategy, military history, going all the way back to the art of war uh thousands of years ago um the past six months of course started with absolute hell for the israelis but you can't help but look at what's happened and think that the gazans that the uh that haas got exactly what they wanted. Israelis coming in, killing a lot of civilians, getting more than a black eye across the world,

having younger Americans turn against them. The question is, what do we do from this point? I'm sure you agree with me that Hamas has to be destroyed as a fighting force. I also, not to put words in your mouth, agree with me that 10,000, 15,000 more Gazans, civilians can't die to achieve that mean. So how do you do it? Well, militarily, let's start with the, in my view, perhaps hopeful sign that David just mentioned of the pulling out of massive troops. And I'll add two other factors that went into that decision. Certainly, the U.S.

pressure is starting to have real effect here. Number two, six months into a war, an army like Israel's, which is based largely on reserves. They called up every reserve they had, understandably, immediately in October. Those folks are the backbone of the Israeli economy. They're the butchers, bakers, candlestick makers. They need to get back to running shops and cyber offices and the entire office and economy of Israel. So they've got to start putting people back to work. And then third and finally, if you look at this, those Israeli forces have been in intense combat for four months and they are going to need a break, a rest and refit. I think it's kind of a combination of those things. But here's what I at least read into it. Again, talking to my sources, just as you and

others have been doing, the hostage deal is closing. And a good sign is the presence in Cairo of our CIA director, Ambassador Bill Burns, Arabic speaker, former ambassador to Jordan, a former ambassador to Moscow as well, a master diplomat, as well as currently plugged in at the highest levels of all of these governments. So I think we're moving toward that and the hostage deal, a ceasefire of some length, let's call it 45 days. And then you can really flood the zone with humanitarian aid. In that window falls the construction of the U.S. beer, which really unleashes a huge amount of aid moving in. The Houthis are striking less in the Red Sea.

Things are trending somewhat positively. But I'll close with a cautionary note, Joe. Hanging out there is the Iranian response to the attack on their embassy, their consulate. I believe a justifiable one. Iran certainly will respond in the next five, 10 days, probably go after an Israeli consulate. Iran, however, not looking to widen the war. So I think if you look into the future, there's a narrow window here where we may be able to move toward some form of a ceasefire that could be built upon. So many caveats as it pertains to the hostages. We don't know the fate. We don't know how many are alive and what state they're in. The Israeli military has recovered the body of a man who was taken hostage

during the October 7th attack. Officials say 47-year-old Elad Katsir was killed in mid-January. It's believed he was being held in Gaza by Palestinian Islamic Jihad. His body was found buried underground in Khan Yunis. Katsira lived in a kibbutz near the Gaza border. Over a quarter of the residents there were either killed or abducted on October 7th, including his parents. His father was killed in the attack while his mother was taken hostage. She was released in November as part of a brief ceasefire deal. And as we said, over 240 hostages were taken by Hamas and other attackers on October 7th. Six months later, at least 134 remain missing. And among those include an Israeli-Argentinian mother and her two very young sons, her youngest just 10 months old on October 7th. Now he's had his first birthday

as best we can imagine in captivity, a time when most babies are learning to stand, say their first words, take their first steps. Also among the hostages, his four-year-old brother. A 26-year-old woman who was abducted from the Nova Music Festival has a mother with stage four brain cancer whose last wish is just to see her daughter one more time. I don't have a lot of time left in this world, her mother said. The oldest hostage, an 86-year-old Iraqi-born carpenter and grandfather of 12. His family says he loves ice cream, so they asked the public to eat frozen treats in his honor. The desperation is beyond imaginable. So, Ed Luce, it's been six months.

The protests, of course, rising to a fevered pitch for families wondering why this has dragged on for six months and whether Netanyahu and the government's focus, according to these families of hostages, has been on getting their family members and their loved ones back. And here we are six months later and their frustration growing by the day at the government's policies, our lack of policies focused on freeing the hostages. Yeah, and the most recent when the families of the hostages gathered together over the weekend to commemorate this six-month hell they've been going through, not a single member of Netanyahu's government attended that. And the reason why is because all along the families have been shunned, ignored, sidelined, disrespected. Netanyahu hasn't wanted a hostage deal.

There's been many occasions where he could have had a deal, but he hasn't wanted one because that would bring about an earlier end to this war. And as we all know very well, his only method of surviving in the job he's got is to prolong this war. So there is no constituency in Israel that is more critical and cynical about Israel's prime minister than the families of the hostages, because they know that they haven't been a priority for Netanyahu. And signs now that they might be becoming a priority and that, you know, Bill Burns's presence, as Admiral Stavridis pointed out, is very, very important in Egypt right now. And the conversations with Qatar are very, very important.

The reason why there might be a deal in the offing now to release the hostages is because the Biden administration is finally putting real pressure on the Netanyahu government. And we see what pressure actually does do. It opens it opens the gates to more aid to the Gaza Strip. It produces a possible hostage deal. American pressure does work. And we're seeing that happen now in real time. So the hostages, that's the best thing we can hope for in the next few days. And it might well happen.

Let us pray that it does jonathan but if you're a member of the hostage if you're a family of of hostage members uh obviously we've seen the frustration at the netanyahu government uh this weekend and and over the past several weeks especially and for good reason as people who watch this show know, it was Benjamin Netanyahu who allowed illicit funds to continue flooding in to the coffers of Hamas so they could build their war machine that they use to kill and rape and savage and kidnap Israelis. It was Benjamin Netanyahu's government who had these plans for October 7th a year beforehand. And Netanyahu and his government ignored warning after warning after warning that Hamas was coming and the attack was coming. It was Benjamin Netanyahu's government that, you know, he sent the head of Mossad to Qatar three weeks before the attacks. And Qatar's leaders asked, do you want us to keep feeding money to Hamas, keep building up Hamas?

And Netanyahu's government said, yes, of course we do. Of course we do. So he continued to prop up a terrorist organization. And he did. He propped up and funded by his actions a terrorist organization dedicated to killing Jews, wiping Israel off the face of the earth and seizing hostages and now holding them for six months. Yeah. And as we hit that six month mark, so many of these relatives of hostages are speaking out over the weekend. We had a family here on Morning Joe at the end of last week. It's a visceral fury, visceral fury at Prime Minister Netanyahu for allowing this to happen. The security

failures allowed to happen in the first place, but also to not prioritize the return of hostages. There is this real sense among those family members and candidly, many in the Biden administration who believe that Netanyahu simply has not been interested in making a deal to get the hostages home because it would mean the war would ending and that would mean his own grip on power could come loose. Certainly, he was in real dire straits before October 7th and even more so now. And Michael Beschloss, of course, the president and his advisers know there's a domestic political consequence here for Joe Biden running for reelection. Well documented that many young and progressive voters are unhappy with his handling of the Gaza war. I did some reporting over the weekend about how this is also just fear that his inability to control Netanyahu is sort of undermining one of his central arguments for reelection is this idea of competency, the idea of restoring America as a valued, a global statesman. And Netanyahu has just been

an open defiance. So talk to us about what you're seeing from Netanyahu, if you'd like, but also just simply this challenge being posed to President Joe Biden right now. Well, I think you've got it exactly right. You know, I'm sure that Joe Biden and his people do not look at this primarily through a domestic election political lens. But, you know, the Democratic Convention is going to be in Chicago this summer. There was a pretty rocky Democratic Convention that came apart over a war in Vietnam in 1968. The last thing they want to see is crowds outside the convention hall protesting a war that's still going on and a president that doesn't seem to have managed it. So you go back to history. You know, Israel is

there because of the Holocaust. Let's remember that. On the 7th of October was the worst attack on the Jewish people since the Holocaust. And at the same time, since then, tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Gaza who did not need to die, and a prime minister who has stayed on against most expectations in Israel after his own failures. So what does that mean? What that means, I think, historically, go back to history. Almost every single Israeli conflict, the Americans have been strong allies of Israel in most cases,

but also strong critics. And your critic is your friend. 1956, Suez. 1967, the Six-Day War. 1973, the Yom Kippur War. The late 1970s, Mika's dad, Dr. Brzezinski and Jimmy Carter brilliantly both encouraged and, you know, applied, you know, very strict pressure on the Israelis to say, we think you need a Camp David peace treaty that will lead to peace in the Middle East without the American influence. That peace, which the Israelis have benefited from for over 40 years never would have happened. So I think what you're seeing is a president who is acting in the way that Americans have American presidents in the context of past history and at the same time knows that you can't get into a fall election where something like this is so much in play and international actors know that they can mess around with the American campaign by causing trouble. Yeah. You know, it's so interesting. It's almost like we wrote notes for each other because down the side, I have Eisenhower, Suez crisis. I have Nixon and 73 war

Carter at Camp David and Bush for Bush 41. Great minds think alike, Joe. Great minds think alike. Bush 41 and the growing settlements where in each one of these cases, American president said, we love you. We support you. We're not going to let you take these actions that are going to undermine our interests and long-term your interests in the Middle East. On that front, David, we have to face the fact that we are now dealing with a prime minister and many leaders that have turned their back on a two-state solution. Now, I've said on this show since October 7th, I do not expect the Israeli people right now to be clamoring for a two-state solution with Palestinians.

I completely understand why they would not want to talk about it, discuss it, even imagine it. The fact is, though, the leaders have to be looking down the road, and I wish that Netanyahu and the cabinet had read your column right after October 7th, where you're talking about the day after the war. And we all know, as we look over the horizon, despite the feelings of the Israeli people right now, and again, justified feelings, a time will come where we have to have that two-state solution. And yet we have radicals in the Israeli government. We have radicals on the Palestinian side who once supported the two-state

solution who now don't even talk about it. How do we get from where we are today, where it seems implausible to where we need to be, where a two-state solution is inevitable. So, Joe, we get there by hard, careful work led by the United States. You're absolutely right that today a strong majority of Israelis would reject the idea of a Palestinian state. They see the Palestinians as implacable enemies. And that's why the U.S. has to insist on a new Palestinian authority that gains the trust, first of Palestinians who think the PA has been corrupt and incompetent, but more fundamentally of Israelis who see this as a possible partner for living

side by side. It's going to take a while. That's why people, I think, sensibly talk about the two-state solution as a process or a horizon. That's the way that Secretary of State Blinken talks about it often when he goes to Saudi Arabia and says, as this horizon dawns, we'll have normalization of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel. That's a big deal. So that would be a tangible way for Israelis to feel we're moving into an era of greater security as the PA gets stronger and more competent. Saudi Arabia begins to have our back, not our throat. And the world begins finally to look more secure for Israel. Just one more point that we do need to touch on. Even as Gaza is heading toward a much lower level of conflict, it appears,

the situation in the north remains extremely tense. 80,000, 100,000 Israelis can't go home because of the danger of rocket fire from Hezbollah. There is a feeling I hear from my contacts in the IDF that this is going to have to be resolved maybe by military force. The Hezbollah fighters are going to have to be pushed back. So when this Gaza conflict ends, that doesn't mean that the story is this horrific story is over because what happens in the north has to be resolved. All right. Still ahead on Morning Joe, a top Republican lawmaker is warning that Russian propaganda is being repeated on the House floor. We'll show you those new concerning remarks. Plus, Donald Trump panders to the ultra wealthy promising to keep their taxes low if he's elected in November. How the Biden campaign is responding to that. And President Biden heads to Battleground, Wisconsin today.

We'll take a look at the administration's new effort to win over a key voting bloc ahead of November. You're watching Morning Joe as the sun comes up over New York City. Thank you. It's a beauty. We'll be right back. We've got to be ready to govern, and we're going to turn this mess around 180 degrees. But we've got to get through this difficult valley to get to that other side. It doesn't help when people leave early.

My job is to keep this team together, to keep everybody rowing in the same direction so we can deliver and grow the majority, because our mission is to save the country. Without a Republican majority, we have no hope of doing that. That was House Speaker Mike Johnson acknowledging the challenge his party faces as Republican dysfunction on Capitol Hill continues to drive a wave of House retirements. So far, at least 21 House Republicans have decided to leave their jobs this year, a trend that shows signs of a broader drop in morale within the GOP. So why is this happening? Some cite difficulties in passing legislation, the party's inability to govern and growing fears of maintaining the majority in November. After Wisconsin Congressman Mike Gallagher resigns next Friday, Republicans will control 217 House seats to the Democrats, 213, meaning Republicans can only afford to lose

one vote when all the members are present. Out of the 21 leaving, some have included powerful committee chairs and rising stars inside the party. At least five are seeking higher office, while others plan to spend more time with the family or pursue other opportunities away from Capitol Hill. And it's not just members of Congress heading for the exits. It's their staffers as well. In a new report, the Congressional Management Foundation found that the toxic rhetoric and partisanship have made half of the senior staff on the Hill consider leaving public service. The survey sums up the feeling in Washington with just three words, quote, Congress is broken. The nonprofit, whose stated goal is to improve lawmaker effectiveness,

also found that the desire to head to the doors is higher among Democratic staff members, but also almost six in 10 Republican staffers said they thought about leaving because of their own party's actions. So in many ways, it feels like the wheels are falling off the bus because of this extreme partisanship. And in terms of problems getting things done, the perfect example is the border deal. Well, bipartisan border deal. And you just look at the data, Michael Beschloss, just the data shows that this is the least effective Congress in a generation. They're just not getting things done. It's calculated not to get things done because they have people in their caucus, unlike a lot of the committee chairmen and chairwomen.

But you have a lot of people in that Republican caucus who are interested in gestures. They're interested in posting on TikTok what they're doing instead of instead of working. You know, I was I was by almost all ratings, one of the most conservative members in Congress when I was there. And every time I walked into the House floor, I took a left turn and I went and sat with Democrats and I gained Democratic friends that I still have. And we got things done. I just talk about how radically things have changed, especially over the last five, six years. They've been getting worse. I mean, my friends there have told me they've been getting worse for some time. But talk about how this is what Trump was monumentally bad. They've got now that if a Republican talks to a Democrat, Donald Trump is going to tweet at them and, you know, and and say they're they're

communists. Right. And they are all terrified. And I do not want to put you on the spot this morning. But I have to tell you, Joe, the number of times I have watched this program and wondered if under current conditions in Congress, if a young idealistic Joe Scarborough would have wanted to run for Congress in 1994 to be in the midst of all this? I don't I don't want an answer. I'm just telling you that that question has been on my mind. And it's totally out of keeping with what James Madison and the founders wanted. They wanted everyone to duke it out. You know, this was not the British monarchy. They thought the best policy would come out of big policy fights. But at the same time, they expected negotiation. They expected compromise. They expected even friendship, just as you demonstrated among members of the House and

Senate who were from different parties. And it doesn't happen. And I cannot help but think that Donald Trump and the people around him think that they will benefit if the entire system looks broken. So if you get a border deal, that may suggest that Congress works. If you block one and it doesn't happen and the border problem gets worse, it allows Trump to say, you know, I'm running for strong leadership in a system that is not working. So you have to think that there's a cynical candidate here. Admiral Stavridis, House Intelligence Committee Chair Mike Turner, says he's heard some of his Republican colleagues repeat Russian propaganda on the House floor. Let's take a look at his new remarks.

We see directly coming from Russia attempts to mask communications that are anti-Ukraine and pro-Russia messages, some of which we even hear being uttered on the House floor. I mean, there are members of Congress today who still incorrectly say that this conflict between Russia and Ukraine is over NATO, which, of course, it is not. Vladimir Putin having made it very clear, both publicly and to his own population, that his view is that this is a conflict of a much broader claim of Russia to Eastern Europe, including claiming all of Ukraine territory as Russia's. Now, to the extent that this propaganda takes hold, it makes it more

difficult for us to really see this as an authoritarian versus democracy battle, which is what it is. President Xi of China, Vladimir Putin himself have identified it as such. We need to stand up for democracy. We need to make certain that we know that authoritarian regimes never stop when they start in aggression. Ukraine needs our help and assistance now. And this is a very critical time for the U.S. Congress to step up and provide that aid. Boy, it's so important for him to say that. I'm so glad to hear the chairman say that, just like Chairman McCaul has spoken out clearly and unequivocally in support of Ukraine. And similarly, in an interview with Puck News last week, House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Michael McFaul said, quote, I think Russian propaganda has made

its way into the United States, unfortunately, and it's infected a good chunk of my party's base. Admiral Stavridis, can you talk about what's going on here, a big picture and what the dangers are? I'd love to. And by the way, the two chairman you just showed are grownups on the House floor. I don't agree with them on everything, but in the realm of national security and intelligence, they are the best the Republican Party will produce for those seats. And I've worked particularly with Mike Turner when I was Supreme Allied Commander of NATO. He was the head of the NATO Parliamentary Association, connecting our Congress with the parliaments of many of the NATO members. What are the dangers? That's what we ought to focus on right now. It is precisely what Mike Turner laid out a moment ago, Chairman Turner. It is the infection, and I use that word deliberately,

of big chunks of the Republican Party with propaganda that is flowing not only from Moscow, but increasingly from Beijing. And to the chairman's point, the danger here, Mika, is the fact that Putin will not stop at Ukraine. What's in his head are, at a minimum, the borders of the old Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which, newsflash, included Moldova, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, the old borders of Russia. The latter three, of course, are members of NATO. So the danger here is if we back away from providing this sensible amount of aid to Ukraine, we can count on Vladimir Putin continuing to press forward and eventually we'll end up in a collision between NATO and the Russian Federation, which, believe me, is a collision we want to avoid, they want to avoid and the world wants to avoid.

So, Ed Luce, let's bring you in on this. Obviously, we have daily reports from Ukraine about Ukrainian soldiers there running out of ammunition, Russia making slow, grinding, steady progress, real fears of another significant Russian offensive in the months ahead. With this Russian propaganda being bandied about the House floor, Congress finally returns today from the recess, this Ukraine aid bill top of mind for many. What's your sense here as to what could come of this? Speaker Johnson has said in recent days, he's been more focused on this idea of trying to get some sort of Ukraine aid bill through. But he suggested instead of just taking the Senate bill, which passed with

bipartisan support, he might try to create his own, which I'm clear that Democrats would go for that. It also means that if there was a coup attempt for Johnson by Marjorie Taylor Greene and others, Democrats might not have any incentive to help him. How do you forecast this turning out? That's quite hard to forecast. I mean, you should remember, we're also we've been talking about the six month anniversary of the war in Gaza. We're coming up on the six month anniversary of Speaker Johnson being elected. And he inherited this Ukraine funding need and has done nothing for six months, has just avoided, parried, used excuses not to put this to the floor. And if it were put to the floor, as as chairmen McCaul and Turner show, you would get a clear majority in the House voting for new aid for Ukraine.

So I don't know what the precise contours of this package will look like, but I think we have deep grounds for skepticism that it won't include things that Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Bobbitt and all the kinds of people who aren't leaving Congress would like to see in that bill. We've got a spring offensive coming up from Russia. In the past two years, we've talked about a Ukraine spring counteroffensive. The mismatch now in capabilities between the two sides is so great that the only offensive that's in the offing is a Russian offensive, a spring offensive. And we're seeing foretastes of it with nightly drone and missile attacks on cities like Kharkiv, like Odessa. We see Zelensky saying, look, we're outnumbered from eight, ten to one in terms of artillery, in terms of our air defenses, in terms of all kinds of military equipment that could really easily be recycled from the United States to Ukraine. Most of this

is old equipment. This is spending on upgrading the American military stuff that's needed anyway. This is 90 percent spending at home. So I look forward to seeing what Speaker Johnson comes up with. I am very skeptical it will be good faith. Well, hopefully at some point, those who are arguing in good faith about this war being about authoritarianism versus freedom, the very things that Ronald Reagan devoted his life to and that Republicans are supposed to believe in, Hopefully they'll move in that direction. David, I want to read from The Wall Street Journal from from April the 5th. Dustin Volz following up on the misinformation, disinformation that some of these stupid Republicans are are these MAGA extreme MAGA Republicans are echoing.

And it's not just Russia. Now, it's Chinese-linked campaigns laundered false information through fake accounts on social media platforms, seeking to identify divisive domestic political issues and potentially influence elections. They've used fake accounts and AI-generated campaigns to weaken America's resolve in fighting not just against the Russians, but also China and Taiwan. Please talk about that. But also, you've discussed recently about the cyber war, that the Ukrainians are making the best of what they have. We've also got reporting that, of course, as Admiral Servetus would tell us, that the sea war has gone pretty well for the Ukrainians and Ukrainians continue, as far as the air war goes, to continue to destroy some extraordinarily important Russian assets on the ground. So, Joe, one of the amazing things about this war is just how resourceful ukraine has been

in this period where u.s military assistance has been slowed or even cut off they've been inventing their own new systems primarily drones there are now 300 companies in Ukraine making drones, sea drones, air drones, ground drones, so that soldiers won't have to cross the trenches as they have been. Ukrainians realize their most precious resource is people. They've been losing people at a horrible rate, and they just want the next phase of the war to be done more by their smart machines. So they now have drones that can reach all the way into beyond Moscow. A drone landed 200 miles east of Moscow at a target recently. They can go to St. Petersburg. These are home built. If the U.S. says we're nervous about escalation, the Ukrainians say and Zelensky said to me, it's not your problem.

You didn't make these drones. They're ours. So we really should applaud the Ukrainians for being inventive in their hour of need. It is true, nonetheless, that unless they get more U.S. basics, ammunition, artillery, rockets, as Zelensky told me, they're going to have to retreat. They'll retreat slowly, step by step. They hope their cities won't be at risk. But there's just two points I'd take away from this. One, they need us. Two, we need them and their incredible ingenuity in figuring out ways to combat Russia and this authoritarian society that wants to roll them right off the map. And they're resisting it. I wish I wrote after I was

there, I wish Speaker Johnson could listen to Vladimir Zelensky explain why he is fighting so hard for freedom. The Washington Post's David Ignatius. Thank you very much. U.S. national editor at the Financial Times, Ed Luce. NBC News presidential historian Michael Beschloss and retired four-star Navy Admiral James Tavridis. Thank you all very much for being on this morning. And still ahead, South Carolina pulls off a perfect finish, beating the Iowa Hawkeyes for its second national title in three years. Washington Post sports columnist Sally Jenkins will join us to break down yesterday's championship game. And what's next for Iowa star Kaitlyn Clark as she wraps up her record-setting college career.

Morning Joe is coming right back. Six seconds to go. Perfection with a touch of sweet redemption. Undefeated South Carolina has won its third national championship. I want to personally thank Kaitlyn Clark for lifting up our sport. She carried a heavy load for our sport, and it just is not going to stop here. That was South Carolina head coach Don Staley thanking the opposing team's star player, Iowa's Caitlin Clark, after an incredible championship game yesterday that saw the Gamecocks win their third national title since 2017. Joining us now,

sports columnist at The Washington Post, Sally Jenkins. She was at yesterday's championship game in Cleveland and writes about it in a new piece entitled Decades in the Making. South Carolina-Iowa final was a perfect finish. And where to begin, Sally? It seemed inevitable ultimately for South Carolina. They were just strong and big in their actual playing. I mean, the game was incredible. It was incredible basketball. And Kaitlyn Clark was incredible as well. She did. She got 30 points despite everything.

South Carolina was the top scoring defense in the country. Iowa was the top scoring offense in the country. You had an undefeated team from South Carolina. You had the all-time NCAA scorer, male or female, in Kaitlyn Clark. It was really a titanic collision. It was something that the women's game, I think, was really excited about and felt was a real turning point for their game in terms of popularity. A little bit more about that. This was such a magical year for women's college basketball. Kaitlyn Clark, the headliner, of course, and she'll be

the first pick in next week's WNBA draft. And she has inspired so many young, young girls to play this sport. It's really great. But also, let's not overlook the South Carolina team and Dawn Staley undefeated. Last year they were as well, but they got picked off in the Final Four. This year they finish it. Just talk to us about how this is going to potentially catapult the whole sport to new heights. Well, so the viewership really built by literally millions. You had 12 million viewers build to 14 million viewers just in the last weekend. The audience build was really tremendous. Dawn Staley now enters the real pantheon of all-time greatness in the sport. The only other people who have three national championships, Gino Auriemma, Pat Summitt, Tara Vanderveer, Tim Mulkey. And number five is Dawn

Staley. So that's the company she's in now. Wow. We love Gino. I covered him as a local reporter in Connecticut and he is the greatest. But I love Don Staley. And I'm curious about the coaches that are becoming stars in women's basketball and then the up and coming stars that we saw on the court yesterday, because it's it goes it goes without saying that Caitlin Clark is incredible, is a phenom. But I saw a lot of other incredible players there just waiting in the wings for their moment in the sun. Can you talk about that? Sure. The big question with Kaitlyn Clark going in the WNBA draft is who's coming behind her in the women's game. You know, it's so star driven and it's so

narrative driven that women's collegiate basketball needs someone to come up behind her. The really good news is probably the most talented freshman class in history was on the floor in this NCAA tournament. You've got scorers like Juju Watkins at Southern California, Hannah Hidalgo at Notre Dame, the list Malaysia full Wiley at South Carolina, Hannah Hidalgo at Notre Dame, the list, Malaysia Fulwiley at South Carolina, which is loaded, by the way, for next year. This was a young South Carolina team with a lot of great freshmen on the floor. The leading scorer for South Carolina last night

was Tessa Johnson, a freshman. So there's a wave of talent coming. One of the dynamics in the women's game that makes it so exciting is that the arc of performance has risen so steeply just in the time that I've been covering the game or that you have been covering the game that I think it's really electrifying. And I think that's part of what the audience has been responding to here. Gino Auriemma said something interesting earlier in the tournament. He said it used to be that if you had a Diana Taurasi for UConn on the floor, everyone would say, oh, wow, there's a woman who finally can play with the skill level of a guy. There's no male comparison anymore.

People have forgotten that. There is so much rich talent at all five spots on the floor now for both sides, that that sort of comparison that you had to try to equal, you know, a male performance, that's really starting to go away. Kaitlyn Clark is the leading NCAA scorer, all-time male or female, and she did something that no great male scorer ever did, which was also wind up in the top three record book in assists, meaning she's the greatest passer as well as the greatest scorer. It's a truly unique achievement. Oscar Robertson didn't do it.

Larry Bird didn't do it. Caitlin Clark's the only person who did it. That's amazing. So cool. We need to go to break for the top of the hour, but I just have to ask you really quickly, was it a moving pick in the semifinal game, UConn against Iowa? It was totally a moving pick. You're talking about the UConn call with nine seconds left

that appeared to deny them a final shot. Do one thing, try one thought experiment, go back and watch that replay and watch Iowa's defense. UConn wasn't going to get the shot off, probably, because Paige Beckers is pinned on the sideline by Hannah Stolke and Gabby Marshall is coming around that moving pick for the trap. UConn was going to have a very hard time getting what they wanted out of that shot, out of that play. Okay. All right.

Okay. Washington Post sports columnist Sally Jenkins, thank you so much. We'll also talk about the men's game tonight, tomorrow.