Morning Joe - Morning Joe 5/15/25

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

Trump speaks to U.S. troops at military base in Qatar

The other, of course, is Syria. We took out the sanctions, and that's been... I didn't even realize it's been many, many years that they've had sanctions. And as you know, there was a very big change at the top. I met the new leader of the country, and he's got a, you know, strong past. I'll be very nice. He's got a strong past.

But I liked him a lot. I think he'll be a great representative, and we'll see. That was President Trump earlier this morning talking about one of the major moments of his foreign trip. Right now, he is speaking to U.S. troops at a military base in Qatar. It was used as a staging ground during the U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and has supported the recent US air campaign against Yemen's Iran-backed Houthis. Good morning and welcome. Good morning Joe. It's Thursday May 15th along with Joe, Willie and me we

have the co-host of our fourth hour Jonathan Lemire. He is a contributing writer at the Atlantic covering the White House and national politics. Also with us here at the table, columnist and associate editor for The Washington Post, David Ignatius. Good to have you all on. Before we get to the news, let's get to the news. What news? Bloody hell.

That's the back of the New York Post, the Daily News, the same shot. So, talk about last night. 24 hours ago, the Daily News, the same shot. So talk about last night. 24 hours ago, you may remember I said the Celtics are still really good even without Jason Tatum. They had all-stars, Olympians, six men of the year, veteran big guys, really good team. When they're making their threes, they're hard to beat.

Good first half, close first half, and the Celtics blew out the Knicks at home in the second half. 127-102, 25 point blowout. Derek White was great last night. So now comes back to the Garden for game six and it's a little bit of a tense time now. You really really want to close it out at home. You don't want to have to go back to Boston for a game seven because John Tatum crushing heartbreaking injury but as I say even without him Celtics are still really good. Yeah heartbreaking this year because John Tatum crushing heartbreaking injury, but as I say you without him so that you're so

really good. Yeah heartbreaking this year over Jason Tatum next year likely as well so they showed a lot of heart last night. I'm not surprised to kind of one at Forte in the crowd was really good didn't want their season to end on their home court. They had a very strong second after what you mentioned Jalen Brown the word the name of the corner has never been mentioned on the show before I will give him a shout out now you go he was terrific. So yeah and the Celtics I mean as a Celtics fan it's frustrating

because they have played the Knicks the vast majority of the quarters of the series, yeah, but yet they're down 3 to 2, but I think that's right that the Knicks a little next up 3 to certainly still the favorites to finish the soft tomorrow night, but there's pressure to do so because you got to do it at home because you just simply don't want to go back to game seven at Boston. And the pressure actually will be even though obviously this has been the next series of pressure real the next tomorrow night. They'll know they have to win it at home. Yeah the Garden is going to be absolutely rocking because the fans know that too.

They do not want to go back to Boston for a game seven. By the way, Luke Cornett, you point out six, seven blocks last night, something like that, maybe more. He was great. He's fine. Vanderbilt guy. Yeah. His dad, Frank, played at Vanderbilt. His mom, Tracy, right, is a WNBA NBC anchor in Nashville. Wow. Big Nashville family. Great. Sad the Knicks lost lost but happy for Luke and Bill Russell last night. And in other Boston sports news.

I was once again happened blue again. At the end of the we have we lead we lead the league and blown saves we lead the league in law one game losses there was one incredible catch to have this incredible catch. The Alex so we can show what this is this is you know this is what happens when you keep losing games you know get excited about one get play. Look at that. So Paul is going to be it's going to be a home run and one

outfielder will your brain to He hits it with his glove keeps in the park into the hands of his teammates and I'm about rafael a so they team up to steal away a home run. I will say you know watch baseball my whole life I have never seen this before but you're right it comes amid another heartbreaking loss of the socks that gets swept by the Tigers yeah, it has just been a run of grizzly defeat. It's been grizzly defeat and that just just one blown

save after another but the exciting about that catches we only lost by one run yeah, I got a status post to go let's go to mention at the top of the show president Trump is speaking at a military base in Qatar after this speech. He will then had to the United Arab Emirates the final stop on on his four-day tour of the Middle East. Earlier today, the president spoke about his efforts to strike a nuclear weapons deal with Iran. There's two steps. There's a very, very nice step, and there's a violent step. The violence like people haven't seen before.

And I don't, I hope we we're not gonna have to do this. I don't wanna do the second step. Some people do, many people do. I don't wanna do that step. So we'll see what happens, but we're in very serious negotiations with Iran for long-term peace. David, you know, we're talking an awful lot.

We've been talking a lot. Everybody's been talking a lot about the jet from Qatar, which again, we will, we shall see if that ever comes to fruition. Move past that and talk about all the things that have happened this week with Syria, with Iran, with Netanyahu being shut out, the hostage negotiation where Donald Trump basically says, to hell with Bibi, I'm going to do this on my own. You could go down a long list of things that have really, in a very significant way, sort of reshuffled the board.

And now here we come to Iran where Bibi wanted to invade. Trump said, no, not going to do it. And now negotiating with B Bibi sworn enemy. So the big issue for me on this trip is where Trump isn't and where Trump isn't is in Israel. Right. Physically and symbolically in deciding that he's going to recognize President Al-Sharah, former al-Qaeda affiliate as the new ruler of Syria. An amazing break from what Israel would have wanted there.

Similarly, in continuing to press for negotiations seriously with Iran, Israel's mortal enemy. He's moving further and further away from Israeli positions. And finally, negotiating directly with Hamas, still characterized characterized a terrorist organization, basically giving up on President Netanyahu, Prime Minister Netanyahu's ability to deliver the American hostages being held. Those are big steps. I'm sure there's high anxiety in Israel about what this trip means in some. And Willie, Trump was hands-off of Syria the first term, allowing obviously Vladimir Putin and Russia to go in

first time they'd been in the Middle East since I think like 1973. This is a significant break even from his first term. Yeah, and we heard it as we came into the show, the comments getting a lot of attention that President Trump describing Al-Sharah, the leader now of Syria, as a young, attractive, tough guy with a quote, strong past.

A strong past as a commander with Al-Qaeda. That's pretty strong, isn't it? So yeah, I mean, Israel has obviously expressed concerns about this leader. Because of his past, they worry about his leadership in Syria. What do you make of Donald Trump's coziness here with this new leader? Is it, well, he's the rebel, he took out Assad, that's a good thing and let's see what we can do with him?

So, you know, one thing is you don't disrupt things and Trump is famously the disruptor without breaking some of them and this breaks what had been a strong rule, thou shalt not negotiate with former terrorists. Al-Sharah has a chance to put Syria back together. Syria was a wonderful country that was shattered by a civil war. I covered that, just the misery and pain that Syrians felt. And here's a leader who may actually be able to recreate a Syria that works. And the idea that the United States will help that, we've been assured by Turkey, I don't

know how much that's worth, but there is strongest backers that this person has changed, that he's not a terrorist. And so Trump's willing to give that a try. I don't think that's crazy. It sticks in the craw a little bit given his past. But what we're seeing is a president who's willing to challenge received assumptions, traditional ways of doing things, different balance in the relationship with Israel, and that's opening the way to many possibilities, mostly good. It'd be good to have a new nuclear agreement with Iran.

It'd be good to have a real relationship with Syria, with this new president. So I think we just have to hope that he's getting advice from real experts and not just winging it. Right, and also good that he's not just sitting back waiting for Netanyahu to define what's going to happen in the Middle East and what's not going to happen in the Middle East. Fascinating, though, there has been, John, blowback from Republicans, from conservatives,

and of course, when things get shaken up, you're going to get blowback from both sides. But a Fox News host and a vocal supporter of Donald Trump, Mark Levin, is taking a tough tone in reaction to the president's current trip to the Middle East yesterday on social media. Levin, without mentioning the president by name, blasted Saudi Arabia for playing a significant role on the 9-11 slaughter of our people. He also slammed Qatar for having protected the leader of the 9-11 attack from the FBI before he was able to launch his war on America that killed our people. And you're certainly hearing a lot from

Mark Levin, Ben Shapiro was critical, a chorus, you know, Ted Cruz and a chorus of Republican senators critical on the Qatari jet. He's hearing about as much from the right as he is from the left. Yeah, on a number of fronts. Certainly some of these saying these are not countries we should be cozying up to. You know, there are some on the right,

certainly who think that they were upset that Trump is not going to Israel this week, has turning his back a little bit on Netanyahu. And certainly, the jet is symbolic of this, is that it's hard to find any voices who say this is a good idea. I was gonna ask, if you found any, because I've even, people very close to Donald Trump,

when I'm calling them and asking them to defend it. So what's the defense? They start laughing, and they them to defend it. So what's the defense? They start laughing. And they're like, the jet? I swear to God, yesterday, like a nonstop defender of him laughed and goes, the jet? Are you kidding me, Joe?

Don't ask me to defend that. Yeah. They're not there. I wrote on this for this morning for the Atlantic and no one does. The president himself wants to keep the jet. He is very frustrated that Air Force One, he believes is outdated, that he thought that the new one

was supposed to be delivered during this term. It hasn't happened yet. Boeing obviously has faced all these delays. He has told people privately that he feels like the Air Force One is so old that other world leaders are laughing at the United States. We know how that is a thing that really gets him going. But no one thinks this is a good idea.

First of all, of course, just the fact that as a $400 million gift when federal workers, as we've been talking about all week, have to report things, it's over $20, they can't accept that. And then the security implications. First of all, it's a symbol of American power, Air Force One. You're going to outsource that to the Qataris. And then beyond that, the amount of work it would take to tear this thing apart, make sure it's not bugged, to rebuild it in adherence to American military standards, it would be

years and extraordinarily expensive as well. So we are seeing pushback on the Hill, as well as true believers in the MAGA world, like Ben Shapiro and even Laura Loomer. And true, what you said at NBC, our colleagues reported yesterday it would take a billion dollars and many years to make it safe and to make it Air Force one perhaps beyond his term so it never would serve for him as Air Force and the other Boeing jet would be ready by then perhaps so yeah there's no one who suggest I mean I think

there's some doubt with this deal will actually happen but even just talking about it has overshadowed this trip in some ways and has been a distraction often with Donald Trump president Trump it's not that complicated he kind of gave it away in that interview with Sean Hannity they were sitting on his plane he looked out the window at the planes of the princes and kings from the Middle East said see how nice their planes are ours is crappy I want one of those playing them that's what

it is I will say also David the thing is and it but for this plane distraction that has overshadowed the trip for a lot of people, like you said, there are a lot of very significant policy moves here that if they come to fruition, if they are successful, rewrites the map of the Middle East in a significant and yes, positive way unless you're Bibi Netanyahu and want war, permanent war declared on places like Syria and Iran. Trump seems to be willing to question basic assumptions. The most interesting example in some ways is his war on the Houthis. Back in March, we'll remember with Signalgate, they decided they were gonna

bomb the hell out of Yemen to get these Houthi rebels to stop shooting at American ships. Trump was all for it but he said I want to look at the results of this after 30 days, what are we getting out of it? And the New York Times in a super piece this week said that he concluded that after 30 days we'd spent a billion dollars firing the most exquisite weapons at Houthi rebels in caves. It just didn't make any sense and so he just declared victory thank you very much and that's it. It's the solution that Senator George Aiken

famously proposed for the Vietnam War, declare victory and get out. That's new, that's different and it's appropriate. We ought to look at these military commitments and say, hey, wait a minute, what are we getting for this? Does this make sense in terms of the kind of trade of expensive weapons chasing fairly primitive rebels? So, you know, he's trying new things, he's going to make mistakes, he is Donald Trump. You wonder whether he's really thought through any of these things carefully. And the details do come back and bite you. But it's a week where other than the jet, which is an absolutely dreadful idea, people ought to take a careful look and think, that's interesting. That's different. So while all that's happening in the Middle East, the president about to leave Qatar to

go to the UAE. Big news coming out of Turkey. Moments ago in the Turkish capital of Ankara, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky arrived ahead of peace talks set to begin today with Russia in Istanbul aimed at finding an end to the war. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, along with Presidential Envoy Steve Witkoff and retired Army Lieutenant General Keith Kellogg expected to join the negotiations tomorrow.

Secretary Rubio arrived in Turkey yesterday for meetings with NATO officials. Russia's Vladimir Putin is not expected to attend this week's peace talks in Turkey. President Trump addressed Putin's absence from the negotiations during a business roundtable earlier today in Qatar. No, I didn't anticipate. I actually said, why would he go if I'm not going? Because I wasn't going to go. I wasn't planning to go. I would go. But I wasn't planning to go.

And I said, I don't think he's going to go if I don't go. And that turned out to be right. But we have people there. Marco, as you know, is doing a fantastic job. Marco's there, Secretary of State, and we have people there. But I don't, I don't, I didn't think it was possible for Putin to go if I'm not there. Let's bring in NBC News Chief International correspondent Kier Simmons live from Istanbul, Turkey.

Kier, what's the latest there? Well, really, Marky Marko Rubio isn't here right now. Not here by the by the Bosphorus here in Istanbul. He's in Antalya, where there is a informal NATO meeting. Long planned. The Russians are here, but they are a much reduced group of negotiators than might have been expected, led by Vladimir Medinsky, the former culture minister in Russia, a man who does not have the stature, for example, of Foreign Minister Lavrov or other members of the Russian delegation that have been negotiating with Steve Witkoff.

So it's difficult to tell exactly what we're going to get. It doesn't seem to be going very well. Right now, President Zelenskyy is in Antakya, the capital, and he is there meeting with Erdogan. Already, though, the Russians and Ukrainians throwing abuse at each other from a distance. So Zelensky saying that President Putin has simply sent stand-in props for these negotiations. The media are here in force believing that we might get the first Ukraine-Russian talks in three years.

You can see the crowd here behind me. That's the former Ottoman palace where in 2022 I was here then too. The negotiations that failed took place. Why everyone thinks it's going to be in there, not clear because first of all it was thought that it was going to happen at 10 a.. local time this morning. Then after 12, still no sign of negotiators. Maybe the only reason everyone's here is because this is where it happened last time. One Russian TV crew tells us that they've booked their flight home tomorrow, expecting it to be a day, a day that hasn't started. And meanwhile, as I mentioned, the Secretary of State not here yet, but talking to reporters about why the US still believes this is important.

The big issue on everyone's mind is what's happening with Russia and Ukraine. The President of the United States has been abundantly clear he wants the war to end. He's open to virtually any mechanism that gets us to a just, enduring and lasting peace. And that's what he wants to see. He wants to see an end to wars. He wants to keep wars from happening. Big headline, Willie, is that President Putin saying, making it clear that he's not coming.

And then, as you heard at the top there, President Trump saying, well, that's probably because I'm not coming. So this isn't the face-to-face leaders' summit that we thought a few days ago might be possible. Kyrgyz, was there expectation that President Putin would be there from the Ukrainian side, and are they disappointed that he's not?

Oh, I think the Ukrainian side are deeply cynical about all of this. I mean, really what's happening here is both the Russians and the Ukrainians are trying to stay on the right side of President Trump, even though President Trump isn't here, trying not to be blamed when the talks... Well, if the talks fail, but you think when, don't you, really?

Because the Russians are saying, well, we're here to talk about what they call the root causes, and we're here in Istanbul to pick up the negotiations where we left off. Well, those negotiations were talking about things like that Ukraine should be largely neutral, something the Ukrainians would never sign up to now. On the other hand, Ukrainians are making clear that the only thing they really want to talk about here is whether Russia is prepared to begin a full and lasting ceasefire. There's a huge... It's the size of the phosphorus between them.

And I'm not sure how you bridge that gulf. NBC's Keir Simmons live in Istanbul. Keir, thanks as always for your reporting. David, sounds like expectations pretty low for these negotiations in Turkey. For the moment, Willie, this is a blame game. It is interesting. President Trump said that he wanted a 30-day ceasefire.

Zelensky responded, OK, I'll have a 30-day ceasefire. Putin stalled. President Trump said, I want to see a meeting in Turkey between the two sides. Zelensky, within minutes, said, I'll be there. And Putin is in sent, it says sending very junior people to represent Russia. So this is a situation which Zelensky is trying to tell Trump you're being played by Vladimir Putin. Wake up and the hope that he has, I just was in Kiev last week, the Ukrainian hope is that Trump will see that he needs to put pressure on Russia

in a way that he's put pressure on Ukraine to get these negotiations into a real phase where it's not sparring and who's gonna be here, but a real negotiation. But they're trying, as I say, they want no distance right now between Trump and Zelensky. And there are signs that it might be working. In the last few weeks, President Trump has really changed his rhetoric towards Putin. He's expressed real impatience with his unwillingness to get to

a deal. We heard from the Secretary of State there saying the president basically would take any mechanism to get a ceasefire, to get the fighting to stop. And Russia continues to drag its feet. We reported last week about the sanctions they're considering. President Trump talked about them again earlier this week that they are on the table. He has still never in his career really defied Putin. So I think there is skepticism among those in Washington, certainly those in Kyiv, that this might be the moment to do so. But this is the closest he's come.

And I think there is a sense that if Russia doesn't show, I've been told, if Russia doesn't show, I've been told, if Russia doesn't show some good faith effort here, I think we might get an angry Trump feeling like Putin is trying to humiliate him. All right. Coming up on Morning Joe, the Supreme Court is set to hear arguments today over birthright citizenship. We'll talk about what to expect when that legal fight goes before the justices.

Plus, amid a fight with the Trump administration, the president of Harvard is trying to absorb some of the shock from major funding cuts. We'll explain that ahead. Morning Show is back in 90 seconds. Time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning at 24 past the hour. The president of Harvard is taking a 25% pay cut amid the university's battle with the Trump

administration. It's unclear how much money he makes, but the move is largely symbolic as the White House has blocked more than 2.5 billion dollars in federal funding for the school. Harvard has been trying to offset those costs by pausing hiring and merit-based raises for some non-union faculty members. So John Lemire, the New York Times had an article, Michael Schmidt had an article out last week that Harvard loses any way you look at this. Even if they win the court battle, how are they going to get funding over the next several

years for the research money? And as much as any school since World War II, Harvard has become very dependent on money from the federal government for research and development because that's how the United States invests in research and development. They go to the best schools, spend a lot of money. And so, yeah, so even if they win in court, the feeling is they're probably going to lose in the long run because where will the funding come

next year and the next year? You hope sanity will return to Congress, but doubtful. Yeah, I'm certainly a surge in alumni donations, but that can't offset some of the money that the federal government would direct for research. And on that point, there's such a spillover effect here. The Boston Globe actually had a great piece in the last couple of days

that Harvard and some of those other schools in the greater Boston area, because of the work that they do, has really fueled the economy of that region. And they're already seeing real changes there because of the cutbacks to these universities and the fears that more could come. So yeah, and I think other schools are obviously watching what's happening in Harvard making their own decisions. We have seen some, like Columbia, not put up much of a fight against the administration,

others looking more towards the Harvard model. You know, David, what's so shocking to me is that members of Congress understand, especially the ones that have the relevant committees, they understand that America's research and development that has kept us ahead, whether you're talking about the military industrial complex, whether you're talking about Intel, whether you're talking now about AI, whether you're talking about the technological revolution of the early 1990s, that happened happened so much of that was fueled out of research and development coming from whether it's Harvard, MIT, Yale, Penn, Stanford, the best schools on the planet that happened because the federal

government funded their research and development operations. There's not like you know Bob's R&D shop in Omaha, Omaha in Nebraska that's going to be able to take this on. So while the president's making his point America's falling further and further behind in R&D and again you know when I'm when I'm in in Britain when I'm in Europe they're getting about the fact that they're getting the best and the brightest students that were coming to the United States that will not come to the United States now but instead will be researching at King's College Cambridge or Oxford or you you you pick the school in Britain and Europe again where are the Republicans in Congress standing

up going we're losing our R&D advantage every single day. This goes on. They talk about DEI, DEI, DEI. Okay, we'll take care of DEI, but don't slash R&D to these institutions that, again, since World War II, have driven America's technological and economic prowess. You know, Joe, the scariest thing is that they may be breaking this exquisite machine precisely because it is so good. Right. Because it's elite. Because Harvard and Stanford and these other universities, Johns Hopkins, are world leaders.

And there is an anger that is inexplicable to me. But as you say, once you begin to break apart a lab, it's hard to put it back together. The kids in that lab have to go find work somewhere else. I go to Amsterdam or I go to Oxford or, and you'll never put that research group together quite again. So I hope you got it exactly right. People need to look at what we're losing and how long it will take to put it back together.

Officials in Argentina are combing through a startling discovery. Boxes full of Nazi propaganda from World War II. The documents stamped with swastikas had been stored in the basement of the country's Supreme Court for more than eight decades. That whole Argentina thing. Yeah. Check. Officials say the material was brought there in 1941 from the German embassy in Tokyo

and was intended to consolidate Hitler's ideology in Argentina. Researchers and members of the local Jewish community held a ceremony as they began to catalog the contents. Well thought that. And overdose deaths in the U.S. fell by nearly 30,000 last yea decline on record and est died from overdoses in 2 the CDC. That is down 27 prior that previous larg

was 4%. However, annual o higher than they were before the pandemic. Experts cite several factors for the decline from the increased availability of overdose reversing medications to expanded addiction treatments. And the question is, are those going to be cut now? I've heard the possibility that some of that funding is going to be cut as well. But you look at 2024, we saw crime down. We saw a lot of economic factors going up, a lot of teenage pregnancy way down, overdose deaths way down, a lot of quality of life and social trend lines going in the right direction in 2024. Yeah. I mean, this is objectively good news.

We debate things, politics is injected into everything, but this is good news when there were 30,000 fewer deaths last year than the year before, 27% decline in drug fatalities. Still way too many, over 80,000 a year. It's still the leading cause of death for young people in America. The CDC, under the Trump administration

did inject a little politics into their announcement of this giving President Trump credit for it. His first term, his first administration did start an initiative against opioids so he deserves some credit but so too of course does the Biden administration. So to your point, let's keep this going is what all the doctors are saying. Concurrently you had HHS Secretary Kennedy up on Capitol Hill talking about the cuts he's going to be making to that department. These doctors are saying, please, we're moving in the right direction on this epidemic in our country. Please don't make those cuts.

Well, speaking of coming up, HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. says Americans should not take his medical advice. When asked at a congressional hearing about vaccines, I think we all got that right? We're going to play for you those new comments. Plus Steve Ratner has charted some President Trump's executive order focused on cutting prescription drug prices and the impact it could have on the pharmaceutical industry. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. ["The Daily Show Theme"] 37 past the hour, Health and Human Services Secretary,

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. faced tough questions during two congressional hearings yesterday asking about swimming and I was wondering about great and the floating. coming in. It all sticks to you for quite some. Shop I know people asking questions. Something lawmakers on the House appropriations committee obviously deeply disturbed by that I'm sure they were even if they said something to the Senate. Help committee. We're scheduled to discuss next year's HHS

budget but amid an ongoing deadly outbreak of measles and swimming in Rock Creek focus and shifted secretary Kennedy's stance on vaccinations now the question is yeah that stance on vaccination Willie because I'm a simple country lawyer. Okay. So I don't understand. Let's sort that. When he talks about his stance,

is he talking about his stance as it pertains to his online following? Or is he talking about his stance when the doctor says, Mr. Kennedy, would you like to give your own children these vaccines? Because for that, he was like, yes, I do. I do.

Because what if we, for instance, decide years down the road to swim in Rock Creek where there's the flu and all of a late? Yeah. So is it what he says for people to do or what he does for himself, it's funny should ask Joe he was asked that very question hearing yesterday. I don't follow the. Now let me say is also. Probably for measles I you know what I would say is my opinions

about vaccines are irrelevant. Don't want to seem like I'm being evasive. Yeah. But I don't think people should be taking advice, medical advice from me. Right. No, I got that. And I'm not asking you to give them medical advice, but would you vaccinate your child for measles?

So, you know, I think if I answer that question directly, that it will seem like I'm giving advice to other people, and I don't want to be doing that. I want people to make that trouble. But that's kind of your jurisdiction, because CDC does give advice, right? Would you, can you talk about chickenpox? Would you vaccinate your child against chickenpox? I, again, I don't want to give advice.

I can't. Just one last one. Just a yes or no, please, if you could. Polio? Polio? Again, I don't want to be giving advice. It's fair. The answer, I'm just interpreting. Okay, so I'm actually a simple caveman lawyer. I do understand things that I'm saying.

So those answers were yes, yes, and hell yes, polio. And yet he goes out and tells everybody not to do it. He's got quite a following because of it. And yet he vaccinate his own children, but says don't vaccinate yours or suggest maybe you shouldn't vaccinate yours. Come on. What are you going to do next jump in like rock right now with jeans on by the way he has said in the past a few weeks

ago he attended the funeral of a child who died of polio in Texas and was asked after should people be getting the polio vaccine season measles yeah measles and he said yeah you get the measles vaccine so very evasive there yesterday as you say he's built this entire universe around himself around anti vaccination, I'm just asking questions all that yeah, the least of as he's enriched himself he's the prominent speaker at all these events.

So he has to sort of keep that credibility, but we know that he's vaccinating. So what is his standing in the administration? Because it seems, it's interesting, the MAGA base at times in the past has been skeptical of him because he's left-wing on a lot of issues. But what is his standing in the administration? What is this standing with President Trump?

We're about to find out because this is sort of his first moment in the spotlight. The measles outbreak and now these hearings. He was, President Trump, deeply pleased with Kennedy, with the endorsement and the support down this stretch of the campaign that he telling people that he had a Kennedy with him. That was something that really meant a lot to him in his campaign, and he loves the idea of having a Kennedy work for him as part of the cabinet. To this point, Kennedy has been largely relatively

low profile in the first couple months. That's now changing. We're gonna have to see how this goes. I mean, this obviously was an absurd performance yesterday. As the congressman pointed out, as Kennedy said, well, I don't want to give advice. That's exactly your job. Yeah, exactly.

You are the Health and Human Services Secretary of the CDC. You give advice. You give health recommendations. Kennedy trying to walk a fine line. We will see how that plays in the administration in the months ahead. Yeah. So David, I'm not sure.

I do think at some point this anti-vax approach may come in conflict with Donald Trump and his understanding of what one of his great achievements have been in his two presidencies, because he understands and the people closest to him understand something that was said on the show I think by Ezra Klein that one of the great achievements one of the great scientific achievements over the past 50 60 years Was operation warp speed. Yep, and and the fact that they understand that that's one of the great Scientific achievements, but he can hardly ever talk about it because this anti-vax movement that Robert Kennedy is at the center of. I just wonder at what point, the deeper he goes into his

presidency, he doesn't start talking about it. He's been so opportunistic, Joe. He created, through Warp Speed, the mRNA vaccines that arguably saved a lot of lives in America. You should be taking credit for it. But then this anti-vax movement began to sweep the country, and he seems to have just tucked himself in behind it, ignoring the fact that he was, you know, in the eyes of medical professionals, responsible for funding this extraordinary breakthrough.

I think it's going to take a real rebellion by healthcare professionals and researchers to stop this. And when I say rebellion, you know, not going to demonstrations, but also putting pressure on the institutions that fund this. We just can't practice medicine the way that we're asked to with the rules that you're instituting. An early sign of conflict is that Kennedy has proposed reducing use of pesticides. The White House has pushed back on that saying wait a

minute that could endanger food supplies, that could endanger people's health. So we might see more to your point these tension moments coming up. And now there's the Surgeon General of apparently very new agey. Not a licensed doctor. That's not her job. Oh wait it is. That's a surgeon general. But now apparently some of the base not happy that her. I don't know.

She I don't know something about the moon and I don't know. There's some woo in there. Some good stuff when they talk about clean eating and I don't know what some she got some moon there. Clean eating and our children are healthier flu we're already talks about that stuff he does yeah, that's all good stuff but that is and by the way the other nominee to be surgeon general was pushed out because she supported the covid vaccine. Oh no this is so comfortable so she supported the vaccine that Donald Trump.

Correct. Galvanized. Pushed and galvanized. Operation Warp Speed. Historic. Yeah. Perhaps. OK.

OK, so the cost of prescription drugs is next. Get the kids, because Ratner's got his charts. We'll be right back. -♪ -♪ -♪ -♪ -♪

-♪ -♪ -♪ Earlier this week, President Trump signed an executive order that the White House says will reduce the price of prescription drugs for some Americans to the low prices paid by other nations around the world. Wake up, kids, because we've got former Treasury officials. Can we have... Can we have, hold on a second here now. What? It seems to me we need, I hear laugh tracks are still a thing. I read it in the New York Times. We need an applause track and a laugh track for Steve

Ratner when we call him in. I think an applause track. TJ, do you have any cheering right here? Can you press a button and get some cheering? We'll see. We'll see if Q can get something I hear you ready Because right here we have former Treasury official and morning Joe economic analyst Steve Ratner Since the reality of prescription keeping going to drugs and pricing is much more complicated And he's at the wall with it and with charts to break it down. Kids, ladies and gentlemen, big pharma. Get on the edge of your seats. The one, the only, the incomparable.

Steve Ratner, Steve, take us through the charts. Well, I don't think I can live up to that. There will not be applause at the end of this. This might be booing. Oh, no, we'll have applause. But let's just start with a quick surreal parallel universe Trump moment because Trump put out this executive order on Sunday saying that this was the most consequential thing

almost in the history of the country. He was going to lower prescription drug prices by 30 to 80%. The executive order actually does nothing. He doesn't have the authority to do any of those things. But then he said just recently, I heard it on way too early this morning out in the Middle East, wherever he is, that a lot of Democrats were going to vote for this tax bill going through ways and means because it was going to lower drug prices.

There's nothing in the tax bill that will lower drug prices. So the president is off on one universe and the world is on a different universe. But he is talking about a world that does exist. He's talking about a world in which drug prices are much more expensive outside the country than here. So if you look at all drugs and you look at these countries plus about 25 developed countries as a whole, you can see that they pay about 36% of what we pay. In other words, we pay almost three times as much. When

you look at branded drugs, the disparity is even greater. And when you look at generics, in fact it's the other way around, generics here are actually cheaper, but branded drugs are what people pay attention to. Why do they pay attention to it? Because while 90% of all the prescriptions written are written for generic drugs, branded drugs are 90% of all the prescriptions written are written for generic drugs, branded drugs are 90% of the cost because they cost so much. So drug prices are higher here and they definitely occupy a lot of people's wallet share. Why are they so much more expensive here than in Canada or other countries?

Why do you have Americans actually traveling around to other countries to buy drugs? That's a great question Joe and there are really two reasons for it. One reason for it is because most other countries, take Britain for example, which has national health insurance, they negotiate with the drug companies for the whole country at one time and they basically say here's what we're willing to pay, the drug companies don't have as much leverage, so they lower their prices. Also, versus our system where, of course, you have Medicare, you have Medicaid, you have private insurance,

you have people paying for it on their own, we have a very fragmented system, so there's no equally large force operating against the drug companies. The other reason, quite frankly, is we're a wealthier country, and we're willing to pay more. And Europeans and others would simply say no to some drugs.

We'll look at that in a minute instead of paying those high prices. OK, so when the drug prices go up, do the stocks go up? Well, that's an interesting question. You would think they would make a ton of money because it is a fact that drug prices have gone up much faster than inflation. It's a combination of reasons, but it includes the fact that a lot of new drugs, as we'll also talk about in a second, are very expensive. So you'd think this would create a great environment for the companies.

It's actually, it's not bad, but it's not been as great as people might think. So this is the S&P going back to the year 2000, and you can see the black line right there. This is an index of the 13 biggest drug companies. So it looks like they way outperform, although it comes back down a bit here. But two of those drug companies make Mongavi and Ozempic, the two big weight loss drugs that have been such a bonanza. If you take those two companies out of the index, in fact, drug companies have underperformed the S&P. They've not done as well. And it gets a lot to the cost of developing all this stuff.

So talk about how many drugs are sold in the US versus other countries. Right, so we are developing a lot more drugs. This gets back to the cost factor. Over the last 10 years, we've been developing about 41 and a half new drugs a year, and that is about 50% higher than what it was back here. A lot of the new drugs, these greens are what are called biologics, they're much more expensive

to develop. I won't get into the details of that. So you're getting a lot more drugs at a much higher price. But we also get more drugs. We had 212 new drugs sold over this five-year time period. Germany 149, UK 122. And this gets back again to cost and price and who's willing to pay the most, i.e. us, and so we get the most drugs. So we do get something for paying as much as I just showed you that we pay for

this stuff. All right. So morning Joe, economic analyst Steve Ratner. The crowd absolutely loves you. We love you too. They just want maybe for your next set of charts, you can do charts on the differing political views of the Pope's two brothers. Oh, there you go. Well, there's that.

There you go, look at that. I got that. I thought you were gonna say, why don't we get an applause in here? That's pretty good. I'm up here, but I'll we get an applause. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I know we need the Ed McGinn man laugh as well. Hey Steve, why don't you come over and next, next, what we call them, segments around here?

Yeah. We'll talk a little bit more about drug prices and the Pope's brothers. And also coming up we're going to go through more and also the Pope's brothers. And also talk. We're going to work on it. That they dropped the last lot of.