Morning Joe - Morning Joe 5/17/23

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

Biden says progress has been made in debt limit talks

Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Wednesday, May 17th. Good to have you all with us this morning. He's not in the race yet, but Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is drawing a clear line on the issue of abortion, seizing on Donald Trump's inconsistent comments on the issues. We'll have much more on that straight ahead. Plus, the House Democrat is going to force Republicans to go on the record when it comes to George Santos. We'll explain what's happening with that on Capitol Hill. Meanwhile, chat GPT has the attention of members of Congress. We'll show you the moment when a senator faked his own opening remarks,

if that doesn't bring it home. And we'll look at the fallout from Elon Musk's tweets on a frequent target of the far right. With us, we have the host of Way Too Early, White House Bureau Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, professor at Princeton University, Eddie Glaude Jr., former White House Director of Communications to President Obama, Jen Palmieri. She's co-host of Showtime's The Circus and member of The New York Times editorial board, Mara Gay. Joe will join us in just a bit. But, Willie, we have a lot to get to. I know we're not starting with this, but Rudy Giuliani was sued. Did you hear about that?

I did. And there are some explosive and wild details that are coming out of that lawsuit that I think we're going to be talking about in just a few minutes. Do you want to ask you first, though, Jonathan Lemire, about this latest debt ceiling meeting at the White House, the big four getting together, some glimmers of optimism. I guess we're grading on a curve here, though, based on there being no optimism out of the meeting a week ago. That June 1st date that Secretary Janet Yellen has been warning about now for several weeks is inching closer. What came out of the meeting yesterday? Are there real hopes that there might

be a deal here? It's a step in the right direction, but a small one. That's what both parties seem to indicate. They were, indeed, Speaker McCarthy, a little more optimistic than we've heard from him before. Same with the president. But there was very little progress made on the substance yesterday. Staff is still working on the budget on a parallel track. But both sides appointed new negotiators. The president and some of his top people are now going to be leading this, the talks with the White House, with the House of Representatives. And there's sort of an

acknowledgement that it's time to get serious. And to underscore that, President Biden did announce yesterday that he's going to be cutting short his upcoming trip to Asia. He is still leaving later today. He is still heading to Japan for the G7, one of those crucial summits you really can't miss. But now he's coming back on Sunday, cutting short his trip by several days, no longer going to Australia and Papua New Guinea. That had been a real meant to go and show American commitment to that region to try to curb China's rising influence. That's no longer happening because he's got to get back and he's got to continue these negotiations. Staff's going to keep talking over the weekend. The president will

rejoin talks early next week, Mika. But the clock is ticking. We're just two weeks out. And there is a sense from both sides that they'll get there, probably. But they're also almost certainly not going to get there until the 11th hour. We'll keep an eye on that and talk about it more throughout the show. But we want to turn to politics now. And Florida Governor Ron DeSantis appearing ready to draw the political battle lines with Donald Trump over the issue

of abortion. On Monday, the former president said of the six week abortion ban that Governor DeSantis recently signed into law, quote, If you look at what DeSantis did, a lot of people don't even know if he knew what he was doing. But he signed six weeks and many people within the pro-life movement feel that was too harsh. During the town hall last week that Trump was on, Trump declined to detail what kind of federal action he would take on abortion if reelected president. Yesterday, DeSantis reacted to the former president's comments. Protecting an unborn child when there's the detectable heartbeat is something that almost probably 99 percent of pro-lifers support. It's something that other states like Iowa under

Governor Kim Reynolds have enacted. And I think that as a Florida resident, you know, he didn't give an answer about would you have signed the heartbeat bill that Florida did. They had all the exceptions that people talk about. The legislature put it in. I signed the bill. I was proud to do it. He won't answer whether he would sign it or not. Trump responded to that by calling into Newsmax last night, saying, quote, I'm the one who got rid of Roe versus Wade. So we could go on and on about that, but we won't. Jen, the politics of this, though, is so interesting because there are primary issues and then there are primary issues. And I that that the rest of the nation will not unsee. Right. There's political and political partisan primary issues and then primary issues that are primary in people's brains.

Right. Exactly. And it seems to me that this is a race to the bottom between Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump as they sort of scrap over this. But Ron DeSantis is racing against someone who's going to lie and then lie again and then lie again about his position. Meanwhile, he'll double down on something that will not work in the general. Am I wrong? Right. So, I mean, it is interesting, though, that I this is the first time I've seen DeSantis and Trump actually have have have a substantive disagreement. And for Trump to raise his head and say, suggests that the six-week abortion ban is too stringent, that is something new in Republican presidential primary politics. How far he can go with that, I don't know.

He did say that when he did the thing with Kate and Collins last week, he just refused to answer what he would do on abortion and what kind of restrictions he would allow. And I don't know how long you can stay in that position in the Republican presidential primary. I don't think DeSantis is right when he says 99 percent of Republicans are pro-life Republicans support a ban at six weeks. But they you know, but there's probably a pretty big majority. So this could be a problem for, you know, for Trump may have to back off or just be, as you suggest, unclear. Except, Mara, Donald Trump is right about that last comment he made to Newsmax when he said, I'm the one who got rid of Roe versus Wade. He appointed three Supreme Court justices. So I don't think pro-life Republicans are going to quibble with what week he decides abortion should be illegal or illegal. He got them the holy grail. Yeah, you know, I actually I agree

with you, Willie. I think that what we're seeing is some of Donald Trump's killer instincts. He really has good political instincts in many ways. Now, I disagree with him on almost everything, and I'm certainly not his target audience. But this is a man who, you know, really does have his pulse, I think, on what matters to a lot of Republican voters. And we've already seen, you know, he's delivered for them on Dobbs. So I think he's really forcing DeSantis to point out just how extreme his position is. And, you know, there's smart politics in that. It's the kind of those are the kind of instincts you can't really teach. And so I hate to say it, but, you know, what we're seeing is is Donald Trump, I think,

coming out swinging. Now, we should point out Donald Trump has evolved. If you want to be generous when it comes to the issue of abortion over the years, the former president and former Democrats said this back in 1999. Well, look, I'm I'm very pro-choice. I just believe in choice. And again, it may be a little bit of a New York background because there is some different attitude in different parts of the country. And, you know, I was raised in New York and grew up and work and everything else in New York City. But I am strongly for choice. That's Donald Trump on Meet the Press in 1999. Then, of course, he decided to run for president as a Republican and flip flop so dramatically, he even stunned some anti-abortion advocates. Do you believe in punishment for abortion?

Yes or no? As a principle. The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. For the woman? Yeah, there has to be some form. Woman should be punished, he said to Chris Matthews in that town hall during the 2016 campaign. Despite that draconian position, last week he waffled when asked where he stands on a

national ban on abortion. So just to be clear, Mr. President, you would sign a federal abortion ban. I said this. I said this. I want to do what's right. And we're looking. And we want to do what's right for everybody. We're looking. And then after Ron DeSantis criticized Donald Trump for that, Trump reverted back to the other position again. I got us out of the Roe v. Wade with a pro-life people had absolutely nothing to say. And if you talk about radical, the radical are the people that want to kill the baby literally after birth. So, Eddie, a lot to digest there. Donald Trump puts his finger in the wind

and decides that he won the presidential election in 2016 on his new his latest position. But the question about getting through a primary and winning a general election, this will haunt Ron DeSantis. He signed in a ceremony a six week abortion ban. If he finds his way past Donald Trump in a primary, Democrats are going to hang that around his neck in a general election. Well, absolutely. I mean, I think I take I take Mars point to be right that Trump's political instincts are good. But every time Ron DeSantis gets a chance, an opportunity to to, shall we say, be more right than Trump, he will do it. Yeah, because that's an effort to kind of in some ways corral the Trump base. So if he sees that opportunity to be to the right of Trump, he's going to do it. And whether that that's going to be play well in the in the general election,

we know it probably won't. But he will still do it because that's the way to get out of the primary. Yeah. But his political instincts are just lies. I mean, we've seen what he's done as president. And yes, he did put those judges in. And yes, he has a record on this. And he will say whatever needs to be said. So he will ruin the any Republican candidates who try and beat him on this because he's on the record of saying women should be punished.

And he did follow through with putting those judges in there. I don't even know why it's worth listening to hear him talk about this issue. We have his record and he can't be trusted. No matter what he says, you don't know whether or not it's a lie. It might be just a momentary feeling that he feels like saying politically for this moment. Other candidates, they've got a long way to go on this because it's not where America is. Good luck in your primary destroying yourself for the general. Meanwhile, let's look at what's happening in state legislatures.

Yesterday, we talked about the North Carolina state legislature, which has voted to override the governor's veto of a 12 week abortion ban, now making it law. The Republicans supermajority in both houses along party lines to pass the override. But if one if only one Republican had voted against it, it would not have passed. Democratic Governor Roy Cooper responded in a statement after the vote, quote, North Carolinians now understand that Republicans are unified in their assault on women's reproductive freedom. And we are energized to fight back on this and other critical issues facing our state. Some provisions of the law, including the 12-week ban on the procedure, will take effect July 1st. Demonstrations against the law were held throughout the day. Protesters surrounded the streets of the statehouse in the state capital of Raleigh. The state's business

community also came out against the override with more than 200 business owners signing onto a letter that states abortion bans are bad for business. Jen, they're bad for women's health. Women will die. Women will have unbelievable trauma. Women will become incapable of having more babies after they have to pass through fetuses that are dead, that doctors will not help them with. I mean, this is happening right now. And this is the result of these bans and those protests you saw in North Carolina. I just wonder, is this across the country? Are we going to see similar types of of of struggles for women just to have basic health care? And women will likely leave the state if what happens in North Carolina is what happens. It's

what's happened in other red states that have passed six weeks or 12 week bans. Doctors will leave the states because they feel like they can't provide women's health care in this state. And then you saw how like this is not what the North Carolinians support. And you saw how people were were protesting against this. This is not what the majority of North Carolinians want. And there's going to be payback in both that there's a governor's race this fall or this in 2024. And also a, you know, the Republicans have a supermajority. Those seats are the Democrats and independents that are upset about this are going to fight back and try to take the

state legislature, at least get take away the Republican supermajority. It's not, you know, it's about women's health. But then there's the fundamental piece of women feeling like their rights are eroded, women and men that are both concerned about that. And, you know, that impact gets felt well beyond just this issue. Yeah, it's a health care issue, of course, first and foremost. But through the political lens, we are seeing this play out on states across the country. We're seeing ramifications politically, but also economically. We saw, you know, just mentioned there, some businesses suggesting they're not going to do business in North Carolina anymore. The Biden administration is now rethinking a plan to have Space Command move from Colorado to Alabama,

in part because of the changes to the laws there, abortion in particular. And what Trump is trying to do, I think Mika is right, is that he says one thing at a moment. You know, he reads a room and just says something that people will like in that moment. But that threading the needle has worked for him in the past. No doubt. They're lies. We can call them as lies. But he does have a knack, to Mara's point, his little instinct is such, where he can say something that allows him to wiggle off the hook in a way that other candidates, including other Republicans, simply can't. And I do think when DeSantis moves to Trump's right on every issue, yeah, maybe that helps him temporarily.

That's not going to help him next year. But DeSantis, his aides suggest to me, they don't really feel like they have a choice. That's the only space where they can run against Trump. But this is all going to be a problem for these candidates in 2024. Let me tell you something. Ron DeSantis is going to have some issues with teachers, with a lot of different, with all of his pet issues, but on abortion, he'll have huge problems given what he has done in the state of the in the state of Florida, where he is basically. He has I'm trying to think of a nice way to say it, but he has destroyed the lives of women. And there are going to be women who choose not to come to this state because of what he's done when it comes to abortion and the health care that they will not be able to get here. And in North Carolina, my Lord, good luck going to college there. I bet you some kids will choose not to go to college

in North Carolina, which has a lot of great educational institutions. Kids will choose not to go there, young women, because they will not be able to get health care there. Do you want a state that does not offer health care, that actually leaves you to die, to bleed out if you're in a situation where you have a abnormal fetus or something else and you can't get a DNC, you can't get basic health care. And we're going to talk about it a lot because apparently men need to understand what women's health care is about. It's not just about a live baby that's a day away from being born that somebody wants to abort. That's not what we're talking about. I can't believe we have to say this. That's number one. But Mara, you know,

first of all, Donald Trump, I don't need to see another soundbite about him talking about abortion. We know where he stands. We know who he put in place and we know what happened with Roe. There's his record. So he will stand next to that. He can't hide from that in a general election. And I wish him the best of luck because he won't have good luck with women in America. But I want to add to something. When you look at those protests and many more that we'll see around the country, we're not going to just see women protesting. We're going to see men protesting. There are men behind this issue, too. There are men who love their women, who love their daughters, who love their mothers, who do not want to see the fate that is happening to women in this country right now because of abortion restrictions happening to the women they love.

This is not going to be pink hats only. This is going to be a country that will be on fire behind this issue. Men are getting it. It's so interesting, Mika, because, of course, we know from Donald Trump's personal behavior, what he thinks about women in general. And so, you know, he's sorely mistaken, to your point, if he thinks that most men across America share his view, his absolutely caveman view, in my opinion, of who women are as human beings, of what we deserve. And most people, I believe, in this country still firmly are of the opinion that women deserve equal citizenship and are equal humans to men, that all people are equal. And so that's why I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding about the politics around this issue from Republicans, from politicians, these state legislatures, but also from Trump himself, because Americans don't want this. It's not just what's in the polls. Their lives are being impacted. Everybody

who has a uterus, everybody who knows someone who has a uterus, anybody who has needed to go to the doctor for healthcare, anyone who has had a baby and watched that process unfold and the incredible burden on a woman and her body that that takes, understands this is a decision that should happen between her and her doctor. And people are feeling this viscerally. This is an issue that is going to motivate people to the polls. We saw that in Kansas. We saw that in the 2022 midterms. And this is a losing issue for Republicans. It's a loser. And as you say, you'd think they would learn just from a cynical political point of view from the midterm elections. Oh, this was a resounding rejection of some of

this abortion legislation, and yet many of them continue to drill deeper into it. We're going to continue to cover this a little bit later in the show. Meanwhile, the CEO of the company behind ChatGPT is urging lawmakers to regulate artificial intelligence. Sam Altman is his name. He testified before a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee yesterday. Lawmakers asked him about the popular tool that can produce human-like text and also about the risks associated with it. Altman, in return, pitched his own ideas on how legislation can help to improve the industry and to protect consumers. My worst fears are that we cause significant, we, the field, the technology, the industry, cause significant harm to the world. I think if this technology goes wrong, it can go quite wrong.

When Photoshop came onto the scene a long time ago, you know, for a while people were really quite fooled by Photoshopped images and then pretty quickly developed an understanding that images might be Photoshopped. This will be like that, but on steroids. And the interactivity, the ability to really model, predict humans well, as you talked about, I think is going to require a combination of companies doing the right thing, regulation and public education.

In an effort to show the dangers of AI, Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut opened the hearing with a recording of his own voice. And now for some introductory remarks. Too often, we have seen what happens when technology outpaces regulation. The unbridled exploitation of personal data, the proliferation of disinformation, and the deepening of societal inequalities. So that wasn't Blumenthal's own voice or his own words, even Blumenthal instead used chat GPT and a voice cloning tool. The senator that explained how the technology could easily have produced something he would never say, like endorsing Russian President Vladimir Putin. Senator Blumenthal, by the way, will be our guest ahead on Morning Joe. Eddie, it's so interesting to hear many of the people who

have created AI, like the godfather of AI, who a couple of weeks ago left his job at Google so he could speak freely about the dangers of AI. They're the ones sounding the alarms about what's coming very quickly here. Right. And many of us grew up on sci-fi that had at its core this worry about technology overrunning society in some ways, from the Terminator to Matrix to all of this stuff, right? But here I think what's really important is we already have an erosion of trust at the heart of our democratic society, that people don't really feel that they can trust what's coming out of the mouths of their fellows. And that impacts the way in which we deliberate, the way in which we engage in self-governance,

the sovereignty of the people. So if there is a fundamental doubt at the heart of how we engage, whether or not this is you saying what you're saying, that distrust deepens. It actually goes to the foundation of our ability to engage in self-governance, it seems to me. And you know, Mika, the CEO there in the hearing yesterday made the comparison to Photoshop. This is not Photoshop. And he sort of made that distinction as well. This is something entirely different. And with the proliferation of social media, you can get a fake clip online. It could explode around the world within minutes and cause a real crisis, frankly. This is terrifying. We'll talk about it a lot more still ahead on Morning Joe. We're going to speak with the White House press secretary, Karine Jean-Pierre,

about where things stand with debt ceiling negotiations after yesterday's critical talks between President Biden and congressional leaders. Plus, Democrats pull off an election upset in Florida. Jacksonville mayor elect Donna Deegan joins us on the heels of her big win there. Also ahead, Academy Award-winning actress Patricia Arquette is our guest. We'll have a look at her new series on Apple TV. You're watching Morning Joe. We will be right back. A lot of picture of the Capitol just before 630 in the morning.

The man accused of attacking two congressional staff members with a metal bat has been arraigned despite refusing to appear at his hearing. Police say on Monday the suspect damaged the office of Virginia Congressman Jerry Connolly in Fairfax. He was arrested within five minutes of the attack. Yesterday, the judge proceeded with his hearing despite the suspect not showing up. The man faces three felonies as well as a misdemeanor hate crime for an incident that happened minutes before he entered the congressman's office. The suspect is due back in court for a preliminary hearing in July. Monday's attack prompted calls to increase security for members of Congress. Spokesperson for House Speaker Kevin McCarthy released this statement, writing in part,

the speaker has, quote, made clear his expectation that politics must be separated from security and empowered the House sergeant at arms to work with U.S. Capitol Police to protect all members of Congress as they deem necessary. And obviously, Mika, it was much more than property damage that we described. A couple of those staffers were attacked with a metal bat by this man. Yeah. A woman who says she worked for Rudy Giuliani during the final two years of the Trump administration is alleging that the former president's personal attorney discussed selling presidential pardons and detailed plans to overturn the 2020 election. According to a complaint filed in New York state court on Monday, Noel Dunphy says that after Giuliani hired her in 2019, he sexually assaulted and harassed her, refused to pay her wages, and often made sexist, racist, and

anti-Semitic remarks. Dunphy has stated she has recordings of numerous interactions with Giuliani. She also alleges that Giuliani talked about presidential pardons and claimed to have immunity and told her that he was selling pardons for $2 million, which he and President Trump would split. The lawsuit did not suggest any pardons were sold. Dunphy also alleges that Giuliani provided a glimpse into plans to overturn the election if Trump lost, telling her that Trump's team would claim that there was voter fraud and that Trump had actually won the election, according to the lawsuit. Dunphy is seeking $10 million in compensatory and punitive damages. Giuliani denied the allegations through a spokesperson. Mara, I want your thoughts. My takeaway is here are that,

you know, this is very early and these are her allegations, although she's filed them under penalty of perjury. But there's a lot of different potentials here for someone like Jack Smith and others investigating the president. If there is a there there to perhaps get more information as it pertains to attempts to overturn the election. Well, speaking of cavemen, right? You know, understandably, we've been extraordinarily focused on the prosecutions and potential prosecutions and the civil suits against Donald Trump. But despite the fact that he promised to hire only the best people, we also know that he was surrounded by a coterie of men, mostly, who seem to have not been able to behave themselves. One of the most prominent of those men, of course, is Rudy Giuliani, the man formerly

known as America's mayor. So, of course, as a New Yorker, too, you just think, you know, this is also a man who ran for president at one point. And that's, you know, a disturbing thought, this juncture. But, you know, there are other potential investigations that we may see. It is early. These are just allegations. Everybody deserves a day in court, of course. But I have to say, after reading the complaint, 70 page complaint, you know, the allegations that Ms. Dunphy has over the course of two years and apparently these

recordings that accompany them, are extremely disturbing. There are sexual allegations that are disturbing of sexual abuse, wage theft, but also the potential national security implications and the threats to our democracy. The picture that she paints is vivid and disturbing. And every single one of these claims should be taken seriously and vetted, in my opinion. I think you're right. And I think, you know, I don't know what the approach would be if this was completely isolated. But we're talking about a man who worked for a former president, worked for a president at the time, who right now is indicted. OK, under indictment by the Manhattan D.A. for hush money payments to a porn star and has been found liable of sexual abuse. So we're talking about an entire culture here, plus ongoing questions about the

attempts to overturn the election that are other litigations that are happening potentially against this former president that could lead to more indictments, it's hard to turn away and say, well, this could be nothing. It's important to take every allegation that has anything to do with trying to overturn the election or, quite frankly, mistreatment of women completely seriously when it comes to former President Trump and anybody who is close to him. Mara Gay, thank you very much. And still ahead on Morning Joe, there is a little more optimism about yesterday's meeting on the debt ceiling, whether we can get to an agreement here. White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre is standing by

to discuss that and much more. Morning Joe is coming right back. An overwhelming consensus, I think, in today's meeting, the congressional leaders, that defaulting on the debt is simply not an option. It's disappointing that our discussions in the Congressional Republicans have not been willing to discuss raising revenues, but the policy differences between the parties should not stop Congress from avoiding default. I made clear again today's meeting that default is not an option. I just finished our meeting with the president. I did think this one was a little more productive. We're a long way apart. We've got a short time frame here to try to find out how we could come to an agreement. But look, I wish we had done this back in February.

Oh, my God. Joining us now, White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre. I wish you had done this back in February, too. But that's not where we're at. Not even close. What's at stake here and how far apart is the White House and Republicans on this? I mean, I think everyone agrees that we shouldn't be in this position where politics and disagreement over policies and different things that each side wants gets in the way of the debt ceiling battle. Like, why are we doing this? That's a very good question, Mika. But let me just say this and just kind of reiterate, and thank you for having me on, what the president said yesterday. The president and congressional leaders had a productive meeting. They had a direct conversation on the importance of making sure America does not default on our debt for the first time.

And so that's one part of the conversation that they had. The other part of it is to make sure that there is a responsible bipartisan budget agreement that gets to his desk. And like you stated in the beginning of your question to me, Mika, yes, there are a range of issues that they need to discuss. The president directed his staff to have this conversation on the staff level and to deal with what how we get to how we get to a bipartisan, again, reasonable agreement on the budget. And the president is looking forward to having conversations with the congressional leader on the phone later this week and meeting with them again when he comes back overseas. Look, we are not a deadbeat nation. You've heard this from the president over and over again. This is Congress's constitutional duty to get this done as it relates to debt limit. And we should not be in this position. We should not. This is something that has been done 78 times

since 1960. And let's not forget, Democrats joined Republicans in a bipartisan way, putting politics aside three times in the last administration, the Trump administration, to get this done. So this is where we are. We have an X date from the Treasury Department on what needs to get done before that date is passing and getting done the debt limit, which Congress could do. They could have done this a long time ago. And, Corrine, good morning. It's good to see you. Mitch McConnell said the same yesterday, by the way. We are not going to default. There's going to be a deal, but that it is Speaker McCarthy and the president who are the key to this. One of the things on the table that

Republicans want out of this deal is federal work requirements for federal aid programs like Medicaid and SNAP. In other words, you'd have to show employment for a certain number of hours a week in order to get supplemental food or to get Medicaid. Progressives have said that is a nonstarter for them. The White House and President Biden have said, well, we might be there might be some negotiating within that, not not wholesale. Where is the president on the question of work requirements? So here's what I'll say about that is what Republicans are proposed proposing is essentially increasing poverty, proposing a plan that really won't save us much money at all and cutting health care costs for millions of Americans. This is a proposal that they have put forth that they couldn't get unified agreement on when they had the government,

when they had majority in the House, in the Senate, and also had a Republican president. They couldn't even get this done. So, look, the president has been very clear. He's going to fight for health care. He's going to fight for for programs that American families truly need just to make ends meet. But that's the proposal that they're putting in front of us, Willie. Hey, Corrine, good morning. It's Jonathan. You know, it's no small thing for a president to cancel a portion of a foreign trip. He, of course, is still going to the G7 in Japan, but no longer making the stops in Australia and Papua New Guinea. I know that's a region

that the administration has said you really want to focus on, in part to curb China's rising influence. So take us behind the scenes, if you will, and just what went into the decision for the president to opt to not make the second part of this trip? Look, it's, as you know, in the statement that I put out yesterday, the president spoke to the prime minister of Australia to offer up, let him know that he had to postpone that second part of the trip and also extended an invite, a state visit to the prime minister to clearly come here. And so that is something that both sides of our teams are going to discuss and have that conversation.

He also spoke to the prime minister of Papua New Guinea to let him know that we were postponing. So, look, the president understands how important it is when we're talking about the budget and a responsible bipartisan budget, but also the debt limit, which we should be done without conditions, should be done without negotiation. That's something that the president has been very clear. But we have an X date, right? We have an X date that the Treasury Department put forth. And so we got to get this done before the X date. And that's to Congress. Congress needs to get this done. And so the conversation that he's been having with them is saying, hey, this is a critical moment. You all have to really come together and really deal with an issue with the debt limit that has been done 78 times since

1960. We are not a deadbeat nation. So the president has held the line on that. And also, we are having that second conversation of making sure that we have a budget that gets to his desk that he can sign. White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre, thank you as always. Good to see you. We appreciate you coming on this morning. All right. And Jen, I'm just wondering at this point, you know, they need to they need to get it right here because both sides, I think, suffer if, you know, we go beyond the deadline. Yeah. And I mean, well, here's here's something we have known for 30 years because, you know, the first sort of big showdown between Democrats, Republicans on like government shutdowns, debt limits was in during the Clinton

administration in 95, 96. And public opinion usually favors the Democrats and people trust the Democrats more on these issues. But that's still so that's great. You know, and Kareem made a good argument about why the work requirements are not necessary. We don't want to push more people into poverty. I think the Democrats can win that argument with the public with public opinion. But at some point you have to pass a deal and there's getting to a deal, which they seem close to being able to do. But then there's a question of like,

what can Kevin McCarthy actually pass in the House Republican caucus? And, you know, just him making a deal doesn't assure that he's going to be able to get it done. When he passed his default, you know, anti-default bill a few weeks ago, it only passed with one vote. And one of those votes was George Santos, who ostentatiously made a show of going down to the well to vote to show just how necessary

his one vote was going to be. So, you know, Hakeem Jeffries is standing on the sidelines with a discharge petition to say, let's just pass the bill, just pass the debt limit with no with with with with nothing attached to that. Unlikely that that could happen. But if you needed to get all the Democrats aligned and five five Republicans that would pass a clean debt limit, you know, that's there is sort of a tough but but but as an option. So in addition to making this deal, the president and the Democrats and McConnell, you know, who's always close to careful to say we're not going to default, we're not going to default because he knows how devastating it is for Republicans to own that.

They still have to figure out the way to get this through the Congress. All right. Still ahead. Still ahead on Morning Joe. A look at the stories making front page headlines in newspapers across the country this morning, including a new controversy in Florida involving Disney. Plus, Republican Congressman George Santos, as Jen mentioned, has already been indicted on 13 federal charges. Now he is facing expulsion from the House. We'll speak with Democrat Robert Garcia about the resolution he introduced to oust Santos from Congress. Morning Joe will be right back.

You and I looked at each other at the same moment right when we saw this three pitches ago. Watch what he's looking at. What is that? Where's he looking? You don't want to go throwing allegations around without knowing. I have had guys look back when I was catching and you obviously could see it. He couldn't see the catcher with the way

he was looking right there. Yeah, just did it again. And he pummeled it. He hit it a country mile for his second home run of the night. So that was the nonsense controversy surrounding Aaron Judge during Monday night's game spurred on by the announcers who suggested he was somehow getting a sign from the dugout to hit that home run. Just counting the fact that he had 62 of them last year as one of the greatest hitters who ever lived. Last night, Judge hit a two-run go-ahead home run in the eighth inning

that shattered a sign over the center field wall at the Rogers Center. I think he was a little upset. No peeking in the dugout. The Jays beat the Blue Jays 6-3. Here's a back page of the New York papers. Yankees beat the Jays 6-3. Back page of the dugout. The Jays beat the Blue Jays 6-3. Here's a back page of the New York papers. Yankees beat the Jays 6-3. Back page of the papers here. Take a glance at that, eh, from the Daily News after Judge hit the home run last night. Let's see how the post comes in on this one. Eyes of the storm. There was also some chat last night, Eddie, from the

Blue Jays. Still, they're really digging into this, that the base coaches for the Yankees aren't standing in the boxes where they're assigned, that they may be up the field a little too far so they can peek into the catcher and steal a sign. But no sign stealing is going to prevent you from hitting a home run from a meatball in the middle of the plate. That pitch, to judge, you should have knocked it out of the stadium in so many ways, right? So one has to ask the question, given the Blue Jays and what they're asking of the Yankees. Have the Yankees been Astro'd? I'm not. I mean, look, in the age of disinformation, Eddie, you were just lecturing us in the last segment about how we need to trust each other more and for you and

the blue jays to continue to try to make something out of nothing here thank you jen out of aaron judge just looking at his at his teammates to say simmer down in there don't be yelling at the ump yes and just trying to you know instill some integrity in the game systematic electronic cheating on the one hand by the Astros to steal a World Series title versus Aaron Judge asking his teammates briefly with one glance to calm down because they're yelling at the ump before he crushes another 450-foot home run in his illustrious career. There's no comparison, my friend. Just a question. I continue to love you. Let's go to the NBA playoffs. The final moments, game one of the Western Conference Finals last night between the Nuggets and the Lakers.

Up top to James. James back to Reeves. Reeves chased off the three-point line, gets inside. Inside to James. Stolen by Jokic. 17 seconds to go. They've got a foul. Brown won't take the layup.

He brings it back out. And there's the foul with 10.9 remaining. And I disagree. Well, two-time MVP Nikola Jokic was brilliant last night. There, stealing the ball from LeBron James to force that Lakers turnover in the final seconds of regulation to seal a series-opening victory. Not pictured? Jokic leading Denver with a 34-point triple-double last night. 34-point triple-double as the Nuggets overcame a 40-point effort from LA's Anthony Davis to win game one of the Western Conference Finals, 132-126. There's Jokic missing a free throw. The teams remain in

Denver for game two tomorrow night. We're working on our highlights tonight. The Boston Celtics will host the Miami Heat in game one of the Eastern Conference Finals. Jonathan Lemire, for people who haven't really gotten a chance to watch Nikola Jokic, maybe because they're, I don't know, they're in Denver, they're not on. And when people are awake on the East Coast, my gosh, is he a brilliant basketball player as he really showcased last night. I mean, he's the best offensive player in the game by a lot. He does it all, scoring, passing. He keeps their playmaker there. He's terrific.

And Denver's basically unbeatable at home this year. And Lakers did make a big run in that game, so we'll have to see whether they've made adjustments they can carry forward or whether Denver simply took their foot off the gas because they were up so large. But, Willie, I'm going to just, for the record, note that you tried to keep the baseball highlights up there in New York and not come to me here in Washington. That was the plan, yes.

Ignoring the culture. Do you have anything else on basketball? The culture of cheating the New York Yankees. Just in last night's game, their starter, Domingo Herman, thrown out of the game because sticky stuff was found on his hands. What are you going to do? And can our friends at The Athletic, some of the best sports reporters out there, say yes, that the Blue Jays believe,

they acknowledge that the Yankees starter was tipping his pitches that day. They acknowledge that, but they say that's visible from the base luck coach's positions. And they think the Yankees were finding a way to signal that to the dugout, to the hitters. That's their theory. Obviously, the Yankees were finding a way to signal that to the dugout, to the hitters. That's their theory. Obviously, the Yankees dispute that. Is your analysis, Jonathan Lemire, that Aaron Judge needs help by cheating to hit home runs? Is that your analysis? My analysis is that the Yankees should be probably disbanded from the multiple cheating incidents we have seen in multiple nights north of the border.

Clear-eyed analysis. I'm sorry. Live with that on your conscience there, Will. Boston Red Sox, Homer, Jonathan Lemire. Many people are saying he should be suspended. What? Where are the Red Sox in standings? Just behind the Yankees.

Both of us looking up. I'd like to talk trash, but we're in fourth place. Both of us well out of first. It's not great. It's not great, but we're in fourth place. Both of us well out of first. It's not great. It's not great, but we're climbing. Actually, we're tied for third now. Tied for third with the Blue Jays. Moving on up.