Morning Joe - Morning Joe 5/21/25

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

House Rules Committee meeting on Trump’s megabill

I think we have unbelievable unity. I think we're going to get everything we want. And I think we're going to have a great victory. I think it was a really great — that was a meeting of love. Let me tell you, that was love in that room. There was no shouting. I think it was a meeting of love. There were a couple of things that we talked about specifically, where some people felt

a little bit one way or the other, not a big deal. And I covered them. It wasn't so much a speech. I covered certain points. President Trump speaking to reporters yesterday after a closed door meeting on Capitol Hill, hoping to sway holdouts on his budget package. We're bringing the latest from Washington as the House Rules Committee is hours into a meeting on the legislation.

Plus, we're learning more about former President Biden's medical history amid his cancer diagnosis, including the last time he had a screening for prostate cancer. And New Jersey Congresswoman LaMonica McIver is our guest this morning ahead of her federal hearing on charges alleging that she assaulted an agent at an ICE facility. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Wednesday May 21st. Good to have you right here Joe. A lot to talk about today and we're gonna be talking about tonight as well, Willie. So it begins.

Yeah, Knicks game one Eastern Conference finals at home. The Garden will be rocking tonight at eight o'clock when the Indiana Pacers come in. We got through that series with the Celtics, of course, a couple of nights ago. It's a really good Pacers team. The Pacers bounced the Knicks from the playoffs last year. But there is real genuine excitement in New York right now that one step at a time, but this could be the team that gets them to the finals. Although we got a little preview,

whoever gets to the finals of the potential opponent last night, the Oklahoma City Thunder look really, really good. They look great. So I don't know if everybody's playing for second place or not, but the Knicks, it's gonna be crazy. It's gonna be...

Everybody's gonna be there, not me, but everyone else. Everyone is, everyone will be there. Everybody's gonna be there. I'll be watching on TV. Everybody. Yes. I bet Barnacle will be there. Front row.

Yes, okay, let's get right to the news. The House Rules Committee is holding a meeting right now on the Republican Party's massive domestic policy bill to advance President Trump's legislative agenda. The lawmakers convened at a 1 a.m. hearing to process and debate any changes to the legislation. More than 500 amendments have been submitted to the committee, most of them from Democrats. This meeting comes after President Trump visited Capitol Hill yesterday to pressure some party members to get on board with the bill.

Behind closed doors, Trump warned conservative hardliners against steeper cuts to Medicaid. He also criticized some blue state Republicans pushing to raise the state and local tax deduction cap known as SALT. President Trump spoke to reporters afterwards. I didn't even talk about it. In fact, it's the opposite. I think we're going to get to that. I'm not losing patience. We're ahead of schedule. Anybody that told you that is a liar. And this morning, we're learning that House Republicans may be closing in on a deal to address the state and local tax deduction for Republican sources familiar with the matter. Tell NBC News. You know, yesterday we had J Mart on, and basically he said the ideology is Trump.

And if he goes to the Hill and he tells them what to do, you know, they'll say, well, what's the process for it? What's the ideology? And he'll say, just get it done. This was Jay Mart yesterday morning, and looks like that's exactly what happened. And now even on SALT, looks like they're coming close to a deal on salt.

Yeah, President Trump has reported, have said in the room to Congress and Mike Lawler of New York, who's been pushing for a higher cap like a lot of other New York and some blue state Republicans saying, Mike, just drop it. So after all that, we'll see if they drop it fully, but it may not, they may not get what they want those Republicans. And there are many sticking points, by the way, Donald Trump supported raising the cap on salt during the campaign. But there are sticking points from conservatives like Chip Roy, who's saying, which you've

been saying all along, Joe, is that we're supposed to be fiscally conservative as Republicans. And if this passes in its current form or even close, it's going to skyrocket the national debt well beyond what it was post World War Two. Or they're going to set a new record, 125 percent, 130 percent of GDP. Right. That's not supposed to be who we are. So we'll see if they can hold the line there. I mean, they already set those records in Donald Trump's first term. And now if you are on Capitol Hill and you claim to be a conservative, fiscal conservative,

you cannot vote for this bill. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I was, you know, shoved in back corners of leaders' offices and said, you have to do this or else. Just can't do it. Like, we determined we were going to balance the budget even if it meant that we were going to lose all support from everybody in leadership and we did and we still got reelected and we balanced the budget and these guys are sitting there and everybody's saying, oh what can I do? What can I, my party's coming on

and the president came down. You can say no. You can just say no. I mean, it worked for us. And by the way, you don't need a ton of people to do it. We had like 11 people. 11 hard no votes. And there aren't two or three people that don't wanna add, like that are gonna go along with adding 10, 20 trillion dollars to the national debt. I'm telling you

The crisis that's going to ensue from this fiscal insanity over the past 20 years I'm gonna say push mainly when when Republicans are in office if you add up the numbers We're gonna come to a cliff we're gonna fall over and it's all gonna come back to this vote This is the time they have to get serious. Moody's is downgrading us. You've got Ray Dalio and others on Wall Street warning. It's much worse than you think it is. Jamie Dimon's getting a little warning.

This is not a close call. 37 trillion going toward $38 trillion. And I swear to God, I say it every year. And every year they pass crazy budgets. I don't get it. And it's a fiscal crisis potentially, but also make a political one with some of these Republicans,

especially in those swing districts, saying you're gonna ask me to vote for something that gives a massive tax cut to rich people and to corporations, but make all of these other cuts somehow to make up for it. You want me to get rid of a bunch of Medicaid for people? Oh my God. That's not going to work for me politically, some of these Republicans are saying.

Let's bring in U.S. special correspondent for BBC News and the host of the Rest is Politics podcast, Cady Kay, the host of Way Too Early, Capitol Hill reporter as well, Ali Vitale, and chief White House correspondent for the New York Times, Peter Baker. Ali, let's start with you and get the lay of the land of what's happening in Congress with this situation right now. Yeah, they're keeping way too early in Morning Joe hours, and we love to see it, honestly. I love when more people are awake with us.

But look, they're actually quite behind schedule here in the rules committee. They were expecting all of these amendments to be introduced by like five or six o'clock this morning. They're still hearing from the more senior members on some of these committees. There you see Jim McGovern, who's one of the Democrats on the rules committee, holding court there as this rules committee hearing

continues on. There's the procedural piece of what we're gonna see this morning. It's gonna look like more testimonials from Democrats and Republicans alike, but then it's also going to be the introduction of hundreds of amendments. We could potentially see some votes on those in the rules committee later this morning. And then what we're really anticipating is this so-called manager's amendment that the

speaker or another member of Republican leadership will basically drop into this bill and it will show the concessions and negotiations that he had that Johnson has been having with key members of the Republican conference. So I would imagine that one of the things we see in there is the agreement that they've come to on salt. At least our understanding is that the salt cap deduction would be raised to $40,000 for people making less than $500,000 a year, and then it would go up 1% annually and then stay there after 10 years.

So a win for the SALT caucus, or at least one that they could get behind despite being told to drop it. And then the other piece of this that we're waiting to see is what happened with Medicaid work requirements. The concern from some hardline conservatives was that these new restrictions didn't snap in soon enough And so they wanted to see those clauses come into play sooner Chip Roy and Ralph Norman and other hardliners that we often talk about

Have been negotiating hard on pieces like that that could be cost cost saving mechanisms that assuage some of their concerns on the deficit But I have to tell you I think that Joe Joe's read on the Congress on this situation is right, which is that despite people who have been deficit hawks, Trump coming in and saying just past this thing, honestly, is likely enough here. And it doesn't tackle a lot of the deficit concerns that these conservatives said that they care about. So, Peter Baker, you had the president of the United States yesterday just telling every Republican, it's time to get on board enough.

Let's get this one big, beautiful bill as they're calling it through Congress. We had the president of the United States yesterday just telling every Republican, it's time to get on board enough. Let's get this one big, beautiful bill as they're calling it through Congress. He's asking, though, as Joe and I were just discussing, conservative Republicans to vote for something that projects almost $4 trillion added to the deficit over the next decade or so. So I guess the question is, do you stick to your principles as a conservative or loyalty to the president? Well, I mean, look, you know, what we've seen time and time again is that some of these

hard right conservatives will make their displeasure known with bills like this. They'll come up the works for a while, but then Trump will come in, crack the whip, and ultimately they go along. And so far, there's nothing to suggest that Trump doesn't continue to have, you know, the dominant hand in this party. That's why he they sent him to the hill yesterday. He's not negotiating details. He doesn't know the details probably all that well. It's not his thing. His thing is there to go up there and say, look, guys, time's up. Enough of this. Get on board. And he has made clear to them the consequences if they don't, those who don't get on board

when he counts, when he's paying attention, they get primaries, or at least that's the threat. And they know that he sometimes makes good on that and the fact that he has more popularity among their constituents than they do. So it's a technique that's worked for him over the years. It's also worth remembering that you're asking these House members, these Republicans,

to take a vote on something that's not even gonna last. This is not gonna be the final version of the bill. It's gonna go to the years. It's also worth remembering that you're asking these House members, these Republicans, to take a vote on something that's not even going to last. This is not going to be the final version of the bill. It's going to go to the Senate. Senate's going to do a very different thing with it. We don't know exactly how it'll be different, but you may end up as a House member taking a vote to do something that won't be in the final bill, but you'll pay a cost for it politically back home anyway. Yeah, and and and, Cady, as and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, districts that need to go along with Donald Trump to win the primary, but going along with something like this bill will likely make some of these people that won in Biden districts actually endangered politically and most likely will make them lose the election. And we just keep seeing this cycle over and over again.

And you just wonder when people actually start worrying about, one, what's best for the country, and two, what gives them the best chance to win a general election? Yeah, I mean, why is Mike Lawler pushing for more salt deductions? Because he's living in a blue state where Donald Trump pushed up the tax costs for people living in his district,

and he knows that he has to campaign against that. But you're right on what's best for the country. I mean, the warning signs are everywhere. That trip I just took talking to European business members, this was a topic of conversation, Joe, that came up repeatedly. Like, what is the health of the American economy? Should we now be looking at reweighting our investments out of the United States? The American market has been fantastic for investors. Ever since 2008, it's been booming.

But there's a real sense around the world now, particularly in Europe, that this is not the place to put your money. America is too risky. And the thing that is risky is partly the politics are too volatile and the tariffs, but the other thing that is risky is this underlying financial irresponsibility,

that the debt is just out of control. So Peter, to you, when members are debating these issues, just to Joe's point, how many of them are actually just thinking about their short-term survival and how many are thinking this is actually potential? I mean, there are a lot of warning bells out there. Ray Dalio is not the only one who's saying this is a crisis looming. How many of them are thinking, my God, this could be something really serious that we're on the brink of?

Well, you've never lost money making bets in Washington on short-term imperatives over long-term, you know, health of a country, no question about that. And you're right, you know, this is, they're looking at what happens in the next two years, not what happens in the next 10 years, not what happens in the next 20 years. Remember, Elon Musk told us in last year's campaign that they would be

cutting the deficit, not adding to it. He was asked at that Madison Square Garden rally right before the election, I was there, how much would we cut out of the deficit if Trump gets elected? He said, we'll cut $2 trillion out of the $6 trillion annual spending from the government. Instead, of course, rather than cutting anything that will change the overall fiscal picture, they're adding to it. They've made a lot of cuts, they've hurt a lot of agencies,

thrown a lot of people out of work, but they're simply adding to the deficit anyway through big spending on certain items that they care about and through tax cuts that will cost the treasury even more money over the next 10 years than previously. So the truth is this has been a bipartisan issue for a lot of years. There's not been much of a constituency

for long-term fiscal help in this country, really since the 90s when Joe was in Congress, really since the Bill Clinton Republican Congress era when they balanced the budget. It has not been a political imperative to care much about the deficit, frankly, for either party. They give lip service to it, but the last serious effort to make any real dent in the

deficit was more than a decade ago during Obama's presidency. It didn't last very long. That's been a victory of short term over long term for quite a while now. The pressure from the White House is real. They put out a list yesterday targeting Republicans saying 20 reasons Congress must unite behind this bill, going through them one by one.

Then Donald Trump, the president was there in person to do it himself, but also wanting to distance himself from the parts of it that are gonna be unpopular, saying don't mess around with Medicaid. He used to expletive to them, but this doesn't mess around with Medicaid. He used to expletive to them. Don't but this mess around with Medicaid. Of course, there are pieces of this that are going to be deeply unpopular

and cost people their jobs and underline something. Peter said this may be an academic debate because Republicans in the Senate have said we're not voting for this. Yeah, I mean they are they're going after Medicaid in a very, very aggressive way. And it's not just work requirements. And so the idea that it's like, oh, waste, fraud, and abuse. No, it's what everybody's so, you know, anytime they're great with the debt going up, they go, we're cutting waste, fraud, and abuse.

And then you look at the numbers, there's nothing there. Which also reminds me, we're talking about Elon Musk, Willie. And here's the guy. yeah, they were saying, oh, we're gonna cut two trillion. And we said, no, you're not. Oh, yeah, we're gonna cut two trillion. I started to go inside the administration. No, you're not.

Maybe you'll get 100 billion. Maybe, maybe. There's not a serious person in Washington, D.C. that believed anything that Elon Musk said, because they knew the money wasn't there unless you go after defense whether you Don't extend the tax cuts for the rich Whether you you know go after Social Security whether you go after Medicare

Whether you go after Medicaid whether you figure out how to reform entitlements in a way that doesn't savage the American people But they just didn't put the work into it. And so, what do they do? I mean, this is, it's ghastly. You have the richest billionaire in the world, a chainsaw-wielding South African immigrant coming to America, wielding a chainsaw, doesn't understand our government, doesn't understand how it works.

Obviously from a lot of things he tweets, he doesn't understand the Constitution. And the richest man in the world decides he's going to show fiscal prudence by taking food out of the mouths of the poorest starving children on the planet. I mean it's just what's happening. I mean the idea that they're going after USAID to cut the budget, the money's just not there.

Rounding error. Rounding error. And they're desperate to figure out how to give tax cuts to the richest people, billionaires, multinational corporations, like people who run tech monopolies. You could make this up. Like a Democrat who would say this. Nobody would believe that this would happen. It is happening and Republicans are setting themselves up like dominoes to be knocked down. It's kind of what some of these Republicans are saying.

You are setting us up. We're going to lose our seats. And then you're never going to have the votes two years from now in anything you want to do. But that seems to be falling on deaf ears at the White House. By the way, Elon Musk was challenged in an interview yesterday by Bloomberg on exactly what you're saying. You said a trillion dollars. We ran the numbers. You're never going to get close. And he sort of had to melt down and insulted the reporter

because the math just doesn't work. It never added up. I mean, anybody that spent five minutes looking at a budget, trying to figure out how to balance it would know. That's not where the money is. I mean, you're looking at the things that people call government, maybe 9, 10 percent of the entire budget. As people say, as some people have dryly said about the United States government, it's an insurance company with a military. And it is. I mean, again, 90% Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security,

defense, and interest on the debt. And you're 90% there. So they say, okay, we're going to savage the 10% that people actually need, whether it's education, whether it's Veterans Affairs, whether it's, you know, you go down the list, basic health care for the poorest among us, there's not the money there. I remember, I'm sorry, I'll just say one final thing about Medicaid.

There's a very conservative Republican in 1995 contract with America was going through. I voted yes on most of the things, balanced budget, go down the list. And they got to cutting Medicaid. And their big thing was, oh, we've got to balance the budget, we're going to cut Medicaid. And even 1995 version of me said, you're saying that like we've got a national deficit because we give the poor too much? That's funny. I mean, the world's changed since then. And then it was less rural and more urban. Now the benefit goes more to red state America, to Donald Trump's America.

So again, I- They're gonna feel the cuts if that were to happen. Why is he going on and on about this? Because I can't believe Republicans are going to allow themselves to walk into this political gauntlet. And show constituents exactly who they are.

Exactly who they are and exactly what they're not. Not conservative. You vote for this bill on the deficit, on the debt. You're not conservative. Forever not conservative. All right. And the host of Wait Too Early, Ali Battali and Peter Baker of The New York Times. Thank you both very much for your insights and reporting this morning.

And still ahead on Morning Joe, Secretary of State Marco Rubio defends the Trump administration's foreign policy as he gets grilled by Democrats during a tense Senate hearing. We'll show you some of those exchanges. Plus, does Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem understand the meaning of habeas corpus? We'll take a look at her response when asked to define that legal principle. Also ahead, he was best known as Norm on the hit sitcom Cheers. Emmy nominated actor George Wendt has passed away at the age of 76. We'll take a closer look at his career.

And a quick reminder that the Morning Joe podcast is available each weekday, featuring our full conversations and analysis. It'll change their life. Want it? Yeah. Morning Joe podcast. I know a lot of people who listen to podcasts. Helps you back swing. And this is what I don't believe.

Don't you make fun of our podcast. It reverses my pattern both. I, everybody I talk to is like, I listen to podcasts. Listen to podcasts. I didn't know I had a podcast. All right, you can listen wherever you get your podcasts. We're back in 90 seconds. You gonna miss the White House at all or no?

My rough plan on the White House is to be there for a couple days every few weeks and to be helpful where I can be helpful. What do you say, Norm? Well, I never met a beer I didn't drink. And on it goes. Evening, everybody. Good evening, Norm. Norman?

What's youring, everybody. Good morning. Norman? What's your pleasure, Mr. Peterson? Boxer shorts and loose shoes. I'll have a bottle of Nettelford beer. Afternoon, everybody. How's life, Mr. Peterson?

I'm waiting for the movie. Evening, everybody. What can I do for you, Mr. Good evening, everybody. What can I do for you, Mr. Peterson? You'll hope with my wife. What do you think? Good afternoon, everybody. Norman?

Hey, what's happening, Norm? It's a dog-eat-dog world, Sammy, and I'm wearing milk-thone underwear. Norm, that's the loved actor George Went known best known best of course as Norm on Cheers. He died yesterday at the age of 76. NBC News national correspondent Morgan Chesky has a look back at Wint's life and career. In a place where everybody knew his name, George Wint made all our troubles feel the same. As the lovable Norm at the Boston Bar Cheers, Wint was never without a beer or a trademark

one-liner. Hey, what's happening, Norm? It's a dog-eat-dog world, Sammy, and I'm wearing milk-thone underwear. Wint nominated for an Emmy for six consecutive years over the show's 11 season run. It's one of the great perks of employment history. I get free beer wherever I go. Born in Chicago, the beloved everyman found his footing on stage at the famed Second City. But it wasn't until he landed in Cheers in 1982 Wint became a household name. Appearing in everything from movies to Michael

Jackson music videos and Saturday Night Live. The Bears. The Bears. A family spokesman confirming Wint passed away peacefully at home. Cheers co-star Ted Danson sharing he's devastated and sending love to Wint's wife and children. You know what I think the most important thing in life is you want to know what I love. The or no. Fans for one for the one and only.

That was nbc's Morgan chesky reporting. All right, 26 past the hour. Let's bring in the co-host of our fourth hour, Jonathan Lemire. And look at this. It's big. I mean. Norm. He's our norm. He is.

He cheers up late. There you go. I'll take that. I'll take it. To view Cannon's Cliff Clavin. There you go. A poor man spins a car. It's hard for people to...

We were just talking about it. This was one of the last great stretches of television in its glory days. I remember watching this show, first season, loving it, but thinking it was going to be canceled because nobody else was watching it except a handful of people. And NBC had the wisdom to say, no, no, we think there's something here.

And I will tell you that just that became an institution of the 80s. And when you went to Boston, the first place you had to go after going to Fenway, you had to go where's the cheers bar? Still. And still, and still. I had a friend actually that we went to see a Red Sox game this year. He goes, I got to see the cheers bar. You know, I think, I think I might be wrong, but I think Grant Tinker was the head of programming for NBC at the time. And he stuck with Cheers at its inception, its first season. And every character, and I know you two kids haven't watched it a lot. No, I'm going to push back. This was my favorite show, too.

Okay, every character was perfect. Yeah. Every character. Woody Harrelson's character, the fireman in it, you know, George Wynn, Cliff Claven, Sam Malone, the bartender, Diane, his girlfriend. Shelley Long, Ted Danson, everything was perfect about it and you know, John, the thing also that made it so great is it was a comedy but there were also times the writing was so damn good. I remember when Coach, the older guy at the bar, was talking to his daughter about how beautiful she was. I don't think anybody watching that wasn't crying at home.

And it was just, it was an extraordinary show. And George went, it was such an important part of it. Yeah, the show had a lot of heart beyond being just clever and outrageously funny. And the writing was so good, they introduced Frasier Crane, of course. Yeah, the show had a lot of heart beyond being just clever and outrageously funny. And the writing was so good, they introduced Frasier Crane, of course. And the thing that, it was my parents' favorite show at the time, I got into it and then caught up later

in reruns, it was always so clever about, they'd set up a joke and you'd think it was going one way and it's thin at the other. And it was just, it was always got a laugh. And the norm characters is iconic. And I think it's actually, we showed the montage there of his entrances to the bar and fitting the final scene of the show is actually just Sam Malone and Norm

saying goodbye to the show and to the cast. Yeah, certainly a wonderful career beyond Norm too. And so simple, it was almost a play. I mean, we think of like TV now is cinematic, Netflix and everything else. The bar is the stage. They're just on a stage, and the characters walk in and out for all those seasons.

You know, the amazing thing about how great the writing was and how great the producing was, I think, when I'm a little slow, of course, but it takes you about two or three seasons to go, wait, just what you said, they've got one set. They hardly ever leave it, and the writing is so damn good. It keeps you there. And of course also had one of the best,

most successful spinoffs ever in Frasier. I mean, the whole thing was just extraordinary and they piled up Emmys and Emmy nominations and speaking of that, so too did the Barnacle Boys last night. Oh my gosh. Yay! Thank you.

Yes, they won an Emmy. Oh, you were on hand. Best sports documentary. Wait, Mike, how are you? You must be tired right now. I am. But I'm always tired. So, look at these handsome boys.

Mostly. Well, I jump back to the picture. Back to the picture. So, tell us what they won for. Look at that. They won for a documentary called The Comeback. A three-part documentary on Netflix that surprised everyone. Sports documentaries don't usually shoot to the top of the top 10 Netflix list. If it does, it falls off

right away, but this stuck on there there and it told a terrific story that was about more than baseball it was about don't give up come back yeah 2004 I mean captured the most important week of my life so congratulations to the particle boys 2004 Red Sox yeah all right sort of scrolled through it quickly yeah congratulations really good congratulations It's really, really good. That's good you're here. You might be a little, we'll get you an extra coffee. Thank you.

Yeah, no leaving. All right, coming up, the Justice Department has opened a criminal investigation into former New York governor, Andrew Cuomo. We'll dig into that and how this could affect his bid for New York City mayor. Morning Joe, we will be right back. All right, we are coming into New York City at 36 past the hour. Welcome back to Morning Joe.

The Department of Justice has... It kinda looks like The Matrix. It's really cool, John. It's kinda grim there. Well, our next story is about New York City, to an extent. Look at this, this is The Matrix. Yeah, exactly.

I like it. All right. Try to do a Matrix reference today, Willie. Yesterday I talked about Matrix revolution. You did, it's twice this week. Every day. Let's do it every day. OK.

Now, did you see? Is there a reason for this? Not many people. John Wick? Yeah. Do you ever see Matrix? Oh, yeah. Oh, you saw all three?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my god. No. Have you? I saw all three, but I just, as I said the other day, I think the quality of the sequels did decline as we went. But the first one's brilliant.

Really groundbreaking. I love the third one. I love the first and the third. I just, yeah, we're gonna talk about it every day because most people haven't seen it. So I think and I don't think I missed much. Let's keep it down in the weeds. I just. It's been 20 years since they came out. So that's a good time to revisit it. People don't realize how the first one revolutionized. Oh my god. Today it's a granted are because of the first because of the matrix. Yeah, I mean you take the matrix coming out and you take a fight club about the

same time who just defines yes, I think I did see that sort of the night team like late 1990s. LA is incredible. But now, zip it everything that has a beginning. Oh, I've got a cough. Has an end. Need some help. Come on, man. Woo! And you see what happened was, if you haven't seen it, Mika, what happened was the oracle, actually,

got inside Smith's head. Let me tell you something. And she tricked him. A little inside baseball. She made him cookies. Wow. This doesn't stop after the show. Like, people make the red pill reference today. Do they even know that that comes after the show. Like people make the Red Pill

reference today, do they even know that that comes from the Matrix? I don't know. Exactly. Yes. All right. Thank you. Back to the news now. The Department of Justice has opened a criminal investigation into former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo. Okay, hold on. If you're keeping score at home. So the Justice Department, in a couple months, they've opened an investigation into Cuomo, who's probably gonna be New York's next mayor. We heard about an investigation into Chuck Schumer like the day Donald Trump got inaugurated.

Who was it, Ed Martin? Was he the guy? He said, I'm going to investigate. He's gone now. Chuck Schumer. No, no. Is he back? Better than ever?

Never gone. Oh, no, that's right. So Schumer and, of course, and now a Democratic Congresswoman we're going to be talking to. Democratic mayor of Newark, who I guess they arrested and then released and dismissed the charges

and I mean don't forget Bruce Springsteen the president wants an investigation. Gonna be investigated. Okay can I continue please? Thanks. The probe is focused on congressional testimony that Cuomo gave last year that is according to a person familiar with the matter who spoke to NBC News. Republicans in the House requested the investigation, alleging the former Democratic governor lied to the Oversight Committee when he said he wasn't involved in reviewing a New York Health Department report on the state's handling of the coronavirus pandemic. The investigation comes just one month before the Democratic primary in New York City's

mayoral election. Wait, one month? Hmm. Wait, wait, just one month? That would be just a few weeks. But wait, I don't understand. All I heard during the 2024 election was, you can't do anything to her legs.

So now this Justice Department is doing one month? Yeah. But this one I don't understand, Willie. The Matrix. So she makes those cookies. No. And she knows he's coming, right? Why didn't she make the cookies? No, this is what you don't understand.

They have to know. This assures Andrew Cuomo of being the next mayor of New York City. Like, they have to know they are getting him. Like, this is what they kept laughing at Democrats about a year ago. You do understand you're getting Donald Trump elected president of the United States by putting him on trial. Now, why don't they get a crown and put it

on Cuomo's head that says Mr. Mayor? He doesn't have to run ads anymore. It doesn't have to. They just elected him. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I mean, the fact that they're I think there's some questions targeting Cuomo this close to the election, I don't fully understand what the idea is, except that maybe they've accepted that he's going to be the mayor and they want him tangled up in legal problems at the beginning. I don't know. This would be the second consecutive mayor that they had. I mean, let's remember Eric Adams is another one, you know, has.

Well, he worked hard. He did. He worked hard for his investigation. The Trump DOJ, of course, you know, they could. The deal was cut. There was suggestions that Adams was beholden to the Trump administration because of the way the charges were filed. Now, eventually it was tossed out. But Adams, you know, who, again, some of this predates Trump,

but without some of the allegations of corruption. But this would be the second straight mayor where Donald Trump's Department of Justice has the time to put a thumb on. But you're right, certainly in this race, perhaps a political gift to Andrew Cuomo. He is the front runner. He is facing a slightly tougher race than expected

from a progressive candidate. Well, not anymore. Maybe not anymore. But he still has a pretty solid lead in the polls. It's a rank choice voting primary, so it's always a little complicated. But a month out, Cuomo is the clear favorite. This can only help. Yes, and Mike, of course, the question is not whether...

Is this politically... Whether... The question is not about his handling of COVID. Right, which there are a lot of questions. There are a lot of questions about his handling of COVID. A lot of people I know, friends I know, still blame him for the death of their parents, grandparents, the things that he said, the policies that he pursued. This is again, this is about one month before the election.

And I've got to say, just the inability of whoever decided to release this information, maybe just not understanding they have just put him through the Democratic primary. It's over. I would propose that there's an even larger issue involved here, and it's that one political party, the Republicans who control the House of Representatives, are literally, not just in this case,

but in other specific cases, are basically undermining the government of the United States of America. They are loosening the nuts and bolts of the foundations of this country by tampering with stuff like this, injecting themselves politically into a situation like this with clear political motives. I don't know whether the country is still sleepwalking through this, but some of these things that are going on are truly incredulous.

Well, again, a month before the election, after every argument we heard last year on why it shouldn't be within six months or a year before an election. All right, Homeland Security Secretary Christine Noem failed to define habeas corpus, the constitutional right against unlawful detention. Noem was asked about the constitutional protection by Democratic Senator Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire after pointing out that White House advisor Stephen Miller told reporters earlier this month that the administration was actively looking at suspending habeas corpus. So, Secretary Noem, what is habeas corpus?

Well, habeas corpus is a constitutional right that the president has to be able to remove people from this country and suspend their right to... Let me stop you, ma'am. Suspend their right to... Habeas corpus, excuse me, that's incorrect. President Blinken used it. Excuse me. Habeas Corpus is the legal principle that requires that the government provide a public

reason for detaining and imprisoning people. If not for that protection, the government could simply arrest people, including American citizens, and hold them indefinitely for no reason. habeas corpus is the foundational right that separates free societies like America from police states like North Korea. So Secretary Noem, do you support the core protection that habeas corpus provides, that the government

must provide a public reason in order to detain and imprison someone? Yeah, I support habeas corpus. I also recognize that the president of the United States has the authority under the Constitution to decide if it should be suspended or not. Katie Kay, after Senator Hassan there defined it for her, what do you make of her answer? Look, I watched this. There's no way that Kristi Noem went into that hearing

without being briefed by her staff, right? I mean, principals are prepped when they go into briefings like that. It seems to me unlikely that she didn't know what habeas corpus is. So you then have to think, was she acting for an audience of one and just trying to make her boss happy with her redefinition of it?

If that's the cynic of me, and maybe I've been in Washington too long, but otherwise she just was dumb and didn't know something that is basic about American law that she clearly should know, particularly given the position she's in and given all of the cases and the amount of times habeas corpus has come up in political and legal discussion

in this town in the last couple of months. I think she was performing. You know, there are a lot of surprises that we've had over the past three months. I think you're being very gracious, by the way. So, anyway, there are a lot of things that have surprised Americans over the last three months and a lot of things that people have gone, oh, my God, you know, where's the America

that I grew up knowing? I'll tell you one thing that I have been, oh my god, you know, where's the America that I grew up knowing? I'll tell you one thing that I have been so heartened by is the fact that so many Americans have shown pollsters, politicians, everybody else, they understand what due process is. They understand what habeas corpus is. They get it as they're right. And I will keep going back to William Goltz and Wall Street Journal op-ed where he said, elites, they don't think Americans understand the due process, you know, that debate. And he said, he showed some poll results. He said, oh, no, they understand. They understand and they like it very much.

They understand what separates America from most of the countries across the world. And you look at Abrego Garcia, you look at that situation where in most polls, you know, the White House is upside down by like 20 points. Because again, they don't love Abrego Garcia, but they're like, they said what the Supreme Court said. Can't just throw somebody on a plane and make them disappear into an El Salvador prison. And so in this respect, the American people are proving to be pretty stubborn about their rights, their due process rights.

Yeah, and it's a fundamental right and something that is part of the American foundation. And we know, we've talked about on the show, the Trump White House reflexively always, when they want to change the subject, they always go back to immigration. I think that's his signature issue. That's what's got him elected a couple of times, they believe. And they did so with a real shock and awe approach this time.

Yes, violating due process, but also those slickly produced, you know, promotional videos of those prisoners being put in, head shaved, being put into that El Salvador prison. And that's backfired. Polls suggest that Americans don't like that outside of perhaps the very core manga base. And there's a recognition even in the White House, some of the people I've talked to, this is Stephen Miller's plan, he's the lead architect of this, but he's had support from others that it hasn't quite landed the way they wanted.

Doesn't mean they're going to adjust approaches, and they haven't yet. You know, they're certainly still trying to deport migrants without due process to other places, but this hasn't been the political winner that they hoped it would be. Well, and there hasn't been the consistency because as Meek and I have explained that, you know, in some of our off-the-record discussions with the White House, it's very clear that Donald Trump had told people around him, I want to avoid those pictures of mothers being separated from their children. So, and telling people around him, that did me no favors in the first term.

But again, there seems to be an inconsistency approach because there's also the belief that these slick videos that have been highly produced of this seizure and dropping in notorious El Salvador prison, I didn't quite... and the words as we keep going to pop culture and the words of Will Ferrell and the other guys that didn't turn out the way you expected, did it? I mean it's upside down. It's interesting what moves the needle on this and it's visual stuff. I mean there was a young woman, a soft graduate student in Medford, Massachusetts, walking from her apartment to a meeting.

This is about six weeks or so ago. And all of a sudden, two black SUVs pull up alongside her, snatch her, put her in the SUV. By the way, unidentified. And it's on a cell phone. Yeah. And again, unidentified. This doesn't look like America.

And what if that's your daughter? What if that's your daughter and this is normal in the United States? Everybody that looks, every father that looks at that is thinking, okay, what if that's my daughter and she's asking who are you? Who are you? And they just say, come with me. And nobody's showing them any identification. Nobody's doing anything. And they dump her in a car. I mean, that's just, again, you don't care

what your ideology is. I don't care if you're like me and actually believe the border's there for a reason and people shouldn't come here illegally. That's not how you proceed in this country. That's why they're not getting the bounce off this thing that they thought they were gonna get to Jonathan's point. All right, still ahead, we're gonna have the latest and former president Joe Biden's cancer diagnosis and the growing concerns his health may have been deteriorating while he was in office. By the way, this whole thing,

I'm sorry Mike, we'll ask you later, but this whole thing like I didn't take a PSA test since 2014. Why? You're running for president of the United States and you're not taking a PSA test for six years before you're going into the office? And then for four years while you're in the office?

We'll talk about that in a little bit, but there's no good answer to that. That's either a lie or it's extraordinarily reckless. There's no good answer to that. 2014, and I will say I don't believe it, 2014, I know a lot of guys. They don't go, you know what? I'm going to get my mineral level. I want to see what my potassium level is, but I don't want to know what my PSA is. It's just not gonna happen in the real world. It's just not gonna happen. Especially when you're president of the United States.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm saying even beyond that, it's not how guys think. And that's not what their doctors tell them. It's like PSA test once every six months. Once every six months. You got to get it.

You got to get it. I don't know a doctor that doesn't say that. Yeah. So.