Morning Joe - Morning Joe 5/23/23

Episode Date: May 23, 2023

E. Jean Carroll updates 2019 Trump lawsuit, seeks new damages

We're optimistic we may be able to make some progress because we both agreed that default's not really on the table. We've got to get something done here. And the consequence of failing to pay our bills would be that American people would have a real kick in their economic well-being. As a matter of fact, the rest of the world would, too. President Biden and Speaker Kevin McCarthy continue to take positive, have that positive tone on the debt ceiling and how it's going. But there's still no deal with just over a week until the country could default completely. We'll look at the disagreements that are holding up a deal for now. Also ahead, Donald Trump's comments about E. Gene Carroll during his town hall could cost him more money as the writer takes new legal action against the former president. Meanwhile, Trump has a new challenger in the 2024 presidential race.

We'll show you Senator Tim Scott's pitch to voters and part of his wide ranging interview with NBC News after yesterday's announcement. Plus, a top Republican in the House seems to admit the real reason for an investigation into the Biden family finances. We'll show you that moment. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Tuesday, May 23rd. Along with Joe, Willie and me, we have the host of Way Too Early, White House PR chief at Politico, Jonathan O'Meara, former White House director of communications to President Obama. Jen Palmieri joins us as well. So we'll jump right into it.

Writer E. Jean Carroll is updating her original defamation lawsuit against former President Donald Trump in response to the comments that he made about her during a recent town hall event. You wish that you had testified. No, it wouldn't have made a difference. This was a rigged deal. This was a, my lawyer said, sir, you don't have to do it. I actually said, I think I should. It would be respectful.

They said, sir, don't do it. This is a fake story and you don't want to give it credibility. One thing you can go. One thing you did do this. And I swear and I've never done that. And I swear to I have no idea who the hell she's a whack job. You know, his insecurity is just again, we've talked about this before, Willie. His insecurity is just so overwhelming that he feels the need to say, sir, sir, sir. But I just again, you talk about a tell. It's just the greatest tell. This is like the most insecure man in public life. Yeah, this John and I were just knowing the sir story. That was just an excuse to tell another sir story, which, as you say, is usually a tell that the thing he's

about to say didn't happen. He just wants to show that someone gave him some respect. But Mika, he can keep defaming people in public. But as E. Jean Carroll taught us and that jury taught us in Manhattan a couple of weeks ago, he's not going to be doing it with impunity anymore. So what E. Jean Carroll and her legal team are saying is you can keep going out and trashing me and we're going to keep taking five million, maybe ten million dollars in this case from you every time we do it. And sending the message that finally someone is drawing a line in the sand with Donald Trump. Yeah, I mean, if you're going to lie about Sandy Hook parents

and say Sandy Hook children never never existed, you're going to pay a lot of money. If you go around lying about somebody and you get busted for defamation and then you go out two days later, this isn't this isn't the world that Trump thought he had created over the past few years. Like I said, gravity's return. There are debts that have to be paid for for so many of the things that he does, including defamation. And if you tracked his entire career and life, as many have, I think this is the first time he's faced a word that is very, very alien to him. It's accountability. In a new court filing, Carroll's attorney asked for at least $10 million in compensatory damages, as well as a, quote,

very substantial punitive damages award. This lawsuit was first filed in 2019, a separate from the civil case that Carroll won earlier this month, where a jury found Trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation. He was ordered to pay five million dollars and is currently appealing that verdict. The 2019 lawsuit stems from comments Trump made that year after Carol came forward with her allegation that he raped her in a department store. Now, her attorneys say Trump's latest remarks, quote, show the depth of his malice toward Carroll. Trump's lawyers say they plan to fight the motion, writing in a statement, quote, Ms. Carroll's 11th hour attempt to amend her complaint exposes the true motivation behind her numerous lawsuits. The true motivation is for her,

for Donald Trump to stop lying about the woman repeatedly. And not only will this cost him money in the end, if he loses again, E. Gina Carroll has already won one suit against him. He has to spend all this money on lawyers. And that's just one of the many cases that are closing in on him. Again, he thinks he can keep lying

and there are no consequences to it. But Gene Robinson, the real consequence here. Oh, Gene's not here yet. Oh, Gene's coming. Jennifer Palmieri, the the one of the consequences of this is you look at the punitive awards, the punitive awards. If she wins this case, they're likely going to be much greater because this happened days after a jury found him liable for sexual abuse, sexual assault and for defamation. So to go back at there two or three days later, again, I would think that they would be looking very closely at really hitting him hard with punitive damages to stop the type of behavior in the future. And it is something that we're experiencing with him with accountability. I mean,

voters have held him accountable, right? He didn't win in 2020. He tried to pursue extraordinary means to stay in office. It didn't work out. The courts backed democracy in that case. And the courts have weighed in again to hold him accountable in a way that we haven't seen happen to him before. And I think so this is, you know, that's a positive thing. That's democracy working. That's our institution standing up. But I imagine he'll keep doing it, right, because he was so angry about that first judgment. And then plus it's a woman coming after him. He never likes that. And I bet he'll continue to to say these derogatory remarks about her. And they'll continue to be accountability in and in the courts, you know, let alone all the other accountability that's illegal on the legal fronts that, you know, are likely to come his way this summer, too.

And there's some news in one of the other legal cases against Donald Trump here in New York, where he is charged in connection with that alleged hush money payment. Prosecutors say he ordered to be made to adult film actress Stormy Daniels. The former president will appear today by video for a hearing so the judge can explain to him the rules of a new protective order, which bars Trump from using evidence in the case to attack witnesses. Prosecutors from the Manhattan District Attorney's Office requested that order earlier this month, and the judge agreed. Under the rule, the former president and his lawyers will not be allowed to share evidence to third parties, namely posting it on social media, going after people in the

case. It also requires certain sensitive material shared by prosecutors be kept only by Trump's lawyers, not shared with the former president himself. They don't trust him with it. Trump has pleaded not guilty to 34 felony counts of falsifying business records. In that case, a trial expected to begin next year. So bottom line on this hearing today, John, is that they don't trust Donald Trump with evidence in the case because they think he's going to use it, post it on social media, taint a jury with the trial coming up here. That seems like a pretty reasonable fear. And obviously these cases are separate, but the E. Jean Carroll matter reinforces why you do that. He keeps talking. He gets himself in more trouble.

And now this is an effort, of course, the judge is saying, don't do this because we don't want you to impact the legal proceedings. And we have seen Trump in the past, when the midst of litigation, he uses social media, previously Twitter, now Truth Social, to go after people involved. And it could be intimidation. It could be an attempt to influence things. And it can't be a full gag order because he is running for president of the United States. The court seems to acknowledge that.

But they're restricting what he can do and say. And that's sort of an important step here. And, again, to Mika's point, one of the first times that he's had to face any kind of accountability or restriction. He's not able to just do what he wants per penalty from the court. And you look, and we're talking about accountability. It's really it's really across the board here. I brought up the Sandy Hook lies. Right. And there was something where, again, people just started thinking you can lie. You can say whatever you want to say. There won't be any consequences. We obviously know what happened with the voting

machines, what happened there. We see what happened to Donald Trump in Manhattan. We saw what happened with this jury verdict. We also are seeing it every day. The Justice Department continuing and the FBI continuing to pursue people to beat the hell out of cops. Rioted on January the 6th. Try to overthrow a peaceful American presidential election. Again, there are consequences. And again, it appears that Donald Trump will be the last person that understands this. But there definitely are.

It's going to come in Georgia in August. It's going to come with Jack Smith and the feds. And when you have Trump's former attorney general, who basically did whatever he told him to do. And you have a former legal counsel of his saying this could land him in jail. The Moralago obstruction of justice part of that case. Now, yeah, consequences have come. They will continue to come. The question is, when's Donald Trump going to figure it out?

He I know he lives in a world that he's created all unto himself. But at some point, well, if you believe one of his former former attorneys and this was one of his former attorneys say it's not what I say, because I think this guy has gotten away with so much. But Ty Cobb says he didn't team up in jail. Yeah, that guy's been on the inside and has seen what's going on. It's one question as to whether or not Trump will ever get it or if he'll just keep throwing a fire hose of falsehoods out in front of every case and try and drag it out as much as possible. But the other question is Republicans in the House, Republicans who still continue to follow him as they are watching this man continue to touch the hot stove and pull his hand away and lose. The House Republican leading an investigation into the Biden family's finances may have inadvertently revealed the true intention of his probe. In a Fox News interview yesterday, Oversight Committee Chair

James Comer was asked whether he thought his investigation was the reason for an uptick in media coverage about the Biden family's business dealings. His response was to cite head-to-head poll numbers between President Joe Biden and Donald Trump. Do you think that because of your investigation, that is what's moved this needle with the media? Absolutely. Absolutely. There's no question. You look at the polling, and right now, Donald Trump is seven points ahead of Joe Biden and trending upward. Joe Biden's trending downward.

And I believe that the media is looking around, scratching their head, and they're realizing that the American people are keeping up with our investigation. Because a Republican poll that just came out recently, Public Opinion Strategies, which is, of course, as we've said here, is the most respected Republican pollster in Washington. Most Republicans would suggest that. Been around for 25 years. Their latest poll has, I think it's from the 13th to the 15th of May, has Joe Biden up over Donald Trump, has him up even over Donald Trump in Georgia. We could go through all of it. It's tight. But but there's nothing nothing coming out of Comer's investigation, but more embarrassments from him. I mean, he hasn't produced any evidence, any evidence. And by the way, even right wing allies in the media say that would prove members of the Biden family engaged in any criminal activity. But of course, Willie,

you listen to that. It kind of reminds you of somebody else, doesn't it? When when we were all asking, wait, why are they freaking out so much in hearings and screaming, taking a tragedy and trying to turn it into some big political hit job on Benghazi. And let's play the tape and we can see the parallels. There's a match. Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping. Why?

Because she's untrustable. But no one would have known any of that had happened had we not thought and made that happen. So, Jen Palmieri, that is Kevin McCarthy in 2015 saying the quiet part out loud, that her poll numbers are down, that it's proven Hillary Clinton is untrustable. Sorry, by the way, for using one of your trigger words, which has been Ghazi as someone who worked on the 2016 campaign. But there are notable differences here, at least. And that was only what, eight years ago. At least they pretended or they tried to publicly say Republicans did that. Benghazi was about getting to the bottom of the deaths of Americans at Benghazi. And they said this is not about Hillary Clinton.

They said that publicly. And by the way, after Kevin McCarthy made those comments, Trey Gowdy, the chairman of that committee, the Benghazi committee, called him in, made him apologize publicly, said it was disappointing. He's my friend, so it's especially disappointing. Republicans made a big show of saying how disappointed they were in Kevin McCarthy and condemning what he had said. Not here, because ostensibly that was about the deaths of Americans. But explicitly in the case of this Biden family investigation, it is about Joe Biden. It is about

his family. So they really can't say anything other than we're glad to see, at least in one poll that they found, that it is taking a toll. I mean, it just shows you the erosion of the integrity of the Republican Party, even in the last eight years, and also how young Kevin McCarthy looked in that, right? That was like, it's shocking. You know, responsibility ages people. But even, you know, that, what Kevin McCarthy said in, that was in 15 about Benghazi. First of all, one of the best days on the Clinton campaign because it proved our whole theory that this was all political and not within merit about what actually happened to Benghazi. But then that was seen as costing Kevin McCarthy the speakership,

that move. And he did have to backtrack it. And as you said, Trey Gowdy did go after him. And now, you know, Jim Comer, the chair of the committee, just goes ahead and asserts that is the purpose. The purpose is to the purpose is to drive down Biden's standing with with the public. And I mean, alone, like Joe's point about the fact that these polls, you know, most of these polls definitely do not show Donald Trump beating beating Biden. But it shouldn't be the point. And also they are failing even in trying to, you know, assert any kind of real case against the against the Biden family here. Yeah, it's the exact same playbook that we have seen the Republicans use against Hillary Clinton in 2016, but it's a really diminished sequel. It hasn't worked. We saw it in 2020 with Tony

Bobuluski or whatever that guy's name was. I just did a Tony Bobuluski name drop here. The business partner of Hunter Biden, who was the surprise guest at the debate in 2020, which was a pale imitation of the surprise guests that Donald Trump brought the Clinton accusers back in 2016. And we've seen it time and time again. They're trying to make this happen. And it just isn't. And we as we've talked about, Joe, you know, we'll see if Hunter Biden is charged with a crime later this year. It looks like maybe on tax filings or, you know, he shouldn't have had a gun when he, you know, possession in his possession. We'll see that we'll deal with that as it happens. We'll feel that we'll see if there are any electoral impact. But even then, there's no suggestion that the president did anything

wrong. And at least at this point, the Republicans try as they may. And as many hours they spend on Fox News, they have not been able to create anything about the actual Biden crime family that seems to be changing any voters minds and instead turning off voters who say you should be focusing on other things. Well, I mean, and it's so awkward. I mean, it's just so it's as awkward as Ron DeSantis trying to laugh spontaneously at an Iowa event. Please don't. Don't show that. I'm not going to show it.

It's just it's very awkward. But you look at Durham. He has his he tries two cases. Oh, we're going to prove that the FBI spied and Hillary Clinton. And the juries, two juries come back out. No, not even close. Twenty four jurors just said no to Durham. His cases were so horrible. He never proved anything. And now you have Comer coming along and they put out a report. Even people on the right who have been lying time and time again about the, quote, Biden crime family have to say, well, there's no smoking gun there, is there? There's not really anything there, is there? Nothing going back to Joe Biden.

And there's not. But it's just again, it's awkward because they're so bad at this. And and as Willie said, with Benghazi, you had an underlying tragedy. Of course, that kind of makes it even more grotesque that they decided that they were going to exploit the deaths of four Americans who gave their lives in service to America to try to drive down Hillary Clinton's poll numbers. But the underlying investigation was a worthy one to see what happened in Benghazi. They just again, they just it's perverse that they said, well, let's use these four dead Americans to drive down Hillary Clinton's poll numbers here.

They literally have nothing. They will have Hunter and focus on Hunter, I think, continues to backfire because I just think I could be wrong, but I think there's a kind of a bad reaction to going after President Joe Biden's surviving son. And, you know, who has written a book about his struggles, who has been open about it. And yes, if something you're right. And all of us have said this, if there is a charge against him, we will cover it as we would cover anything else. But the kind of personalization of the politics against Joe Biden, who is widely known as a very empathetic man, who is widely known as a very good man, who seems to many people like a good guy. And they go after his son like that.

And I think it just kind of is cringeworthy. It doesn't work. The thing is, they've got investigations. We've said it here time and again. If Hunter Biden's indicted, if he's found guilty, very sorry about that. But that's the justice system. Something we would cover.

And yeah, but it's not even the covering part of it. It's a Democrats wouldn't go out saying they're going to tear down the rule of law that, you know, Democrats wouldn't go out and say what Marco Rubio says about the jury system, ripping out, trying to rip out a basic pillar of America's judicial system, wouldn't go out saying the sort of things that Donald Trump says, which is if something's not if courts don't rule in my favor, then let's terminate the Constitution of the United States. That's the extreme viewpoint. That's the excessiveness where they put this failed reality show host over the United States Constitution and the rule of law.

We don't do that here. Democrats don't do that. They're not going to do that if Hunter Biden does end up getting indicted or even going to jail. That's what separates right now Trump Republicans from the Democratic Party. But again, it's not Joe Biden they're going after. Still ahead on Morning Joe, we'll have the latest on the debt ceiling negotiations. President Biden and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy are calling yesterday's meeting productive. But there is still no deal in sight. Plus, Republican Senator Tim Scott officially jumps into the 2024 White House race. We'll take a look at some of his wide ranging interview with NBC News on the heels of yesterday's announcement. Also ahead, Republican Senator Josh Hawley gets mocked in a new campaign ad featuring a little Hollywood star power.

And former two time candidate for Georgia governor and voting rights activist Stacey Abrams is our guest this morning. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. The U.S. Secret Service has arrested the driver of a rented box truck that crashed into security barriers near the White House last night. According to a witness who spoke to Reuters, investigators found a Nazi swastika flag inside the truck. The Secret Service believes the driver may have intentionally crashed that vehicle. U.S. Park Police are expected to file charges. No injuries were reported. Mika, he didn't get very close to the White House, but certainly made an attempt. Yeah, we'll be following that. It's time now to take a look at the morning papers. We begin

in Michigan, where the Detroit News reports on Governor Gretchen Whitmer signing into law the Extreme Risk Protection Order Act. The legislation allows judges to temporarily confiscate guns from those deemed a risk to themselves or others. It is the last of a three-part package of gun regulations lawmakers introduced following February's deadly mass shooting on Michigan State University's campus. In Florida, the Tallahassee Democrat has a front page feature on Governor Ron DeSantis asking that a federal judge be disqualified from presiding over a lawsuit filed by Disney. DeSantis says the judge has referenced his dispute with Disney in unrelated hearings, claiming that means he can't be impartial in this case. Disney is suing the Florida governor over allegations the board he appointed to oversee the company violates Disney's rights, right to free speech, as well as the contracts clause.

The Kansas City Star leads with a Missouri bill that would allow public schools to offer elective courses on the Bible. It also requires that schools not show any favor or hostility toward any religion. Some critics worry this might violate the spirit of the separation of church and state. The legislation passed both the state house and Senate and is now with the governor. And finally, the Republican American reports that the Connecticut Senate has approved a bill to regulate artificial intelligence. The measure sets requirements for the development and use of AI systems in the state government. It also proposes creating a group that can make recommendations on how to regulate the tool in the private sector. U.S. Senator Richard Blumenthal says the bill

could serve as a model for the federal government. And coming up, TikTok files a federal lawsuit against Montana, challenging the state's law that banned the Chinese-owned app because of privacy and security concerns. Plus, U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy joins us with a new warning about social media and mental health. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. Beautiful live shot of New York City this morning. TikTok is suing Montana, the state of Montana, over the state's new ban of the Chinese-owned social media app. The company argues the ban violates the First Amendment and several other laws. The governor signed the bill last week amid concerns the Chinese government

may have access to TikTok's data. TikTok says it has never been told to share its information. Montana's law bans the company from operating inside the state, and app stores are not allowed to offer it there. Any entity found in violation would be fined $10,000 a day. Individual users, though, will not be punished. A group of TikTok content creators filed a separate lawsuit against the ban last week, Mika. Meanwhile, the United States Surgeon General has issued a new advisory this morning, warning about the adverse effects of social media on our younger population. According to the Department of Health and Human Services and the Surgeon

General, nearly half of the teenagers they spoke to say social media makes them feel worse about their body image. Over 60% say they are exposed to hate-based content on social media, either often or sometimes. And nearly 75% say social media apps and sites are only doing a fair to poor job of addressing online harassment. Joining us now, U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy. Thank you so much for being with us, Mr. Surgeon General. So tell us about your Surgeon General's advisory over social media and the mental health of youth in America. Well, we're living in the middle of a youth mental health crisis in America. And I've said before, this is the defining public health issue of our time. And the reason I'm issuing this advisory

is I am very concerned now that social media is an important factor that is driving this youth mental health crisis. You know, I talk to parents all across the country, and the most common question that they ask me is, is social media safe for my kids? And the truth is, when we look at the collection of publicly available evidence, when we talk to researchers and subject matter experts, we can't say that social media is, in fact, safe for our kids. And in fact, what we do see is growing evidence of harms. And specifically, you think about the fact that kids who use more than three hours of

social media a day face a greater risk, in fact, double the risk of depression and anxiety symptoms. This is especially concerning when you consider the fact that the average amount of use by kids is three and a half hours a day. So the bottom line is, this is a real point of concern here. When nearly half of kids are telling us that social media use makes them feel worse about their body image, I think about that as a father who has two young children. And I want what every parent wants. I want my kids to grow up

confident, to grow up feeling good about themselves. I want them to be able to thrive. We should make sure that social media is, in fact, a place where our kids get benefits and where they're not harmed. So what does an advisory do at this point in terms of spreading the message? I think a lot of parents are living the message and social media has become a part of the fabric of young people's lives. It's not something as a parent, you have a lot of power over, you have some, but you don't have a lot. And in other cases of things that were dangerous toward children, there were regulations or laws or bans. They can't smoke. They're not supposed to smoke cigarettes. They're supposed to wear a seatbelt. They can't drink

alcohol till a certain age. What's the solution here? And what does this advisory do? What should parents do? Yeah, really good questions, and I'm glad you brought up parents, Mika, because parents are in a very difficult situation here, and I hear this from parents all the time. They are having to deal with a technology that is rapidly evolving, that is pervasive. Around 95% of kids are using social media. A technology that fundamentally has changed how our kids look at themselves and each other in the world, but a technology that prior generations never had to deal with or contend with or manage. So parents are in a very difficult situation. What I worry about, Mika, is that we have largely put the burden of managing social media on the shoulders

of parents and kids. And now what they find themselves is pitted against some of the best product designers in the world who have designed these platforms to maximize the amount of time that kids spend on these platforms. What I care about as Surgeon General, as a doctor, as a dad, is not the amount of time kids spend. I care most about their health and their well-being. That's what we should be seeking to optimize. What this advisory does is, number one, it helps parents understand what the data tells us about the mental health impact of social media on our kids. But it also calls to action policymakers, technology companies,

researchers, and others, and lays out concrete actions that they can take. And finally, consider this. Mika, you mentioned other places where we look to support parents in making decisions and keeping their kids safe. Like, you think about cars. We don't tell a parent of a 15 or 16-year-old who's about to start driving, you know what, you figure out whether the car is safe on your own. You figure out what tools and sort of safety provisions and features it needs. We establish safety standards, and then we implement them and enforce them. That's what we need policymakers to do here, because this is too much to place on the shoulders of parents alone. Dr. Murthy, good morning. When that CDC report

came out in February, it dropped the jaws, I think, of a lot of parents that showed, especially teenage girls, young girls, 60 percent or something like that, have feelings of persistent sadness and hopelessness. And we talked about suicidal ideation, all these things that just break the heart of anybody who read that study. Is there any doubt in your mind that this huge spike in that is directly linked to the proliferation of social media? Well, I'm issuing this advisory because I'm really concerned that it is, in fact, linked. But there are open questions that we've got to answer here. And part of the challenge that we've had in getting answers to all the questions we have about the full extent of social media's impact, who's at greatest harm, what the mechanisms of

harm are, are that researchers have not been able to get all of the data that they need from technology companies. It's something I hear all the time from researchers around the country. And that's something that has to change. Look, I recognize that some of the companies have been working to make the platform safer. And that's a good thing. But it hasn't been enough. And we need to move faster. Social media has been around for 20 years. Yet I have not yet seen in all the publicly available evidence we have looked at that there is clear evidence that this is, in fact, safe for our kids.

And that's really what parents are asking for. I think it's a very reasonable ask. And finally, Willie, consider this. The other day I came home and my wife and I were talking to our daughter, who is five years old and is in preschool, and she asked us about posting a picture on social media. She's five years old. She's in preschool.

We don't talk to her about social media, but her classmates are talking about it. This is pervasive. It is everywhere. And that's why it's so important that we support parents. You know, I'll tell you what we're doing for our kids. As our kids get older, you know, our goal is going to be to delay the use of social media until after middle school, recognizing that is easier said than done. And we're going to need help. So we're looking for other parents that we can partner with because who might take a similar approach to their kids because there's strength in numbers. But for parents out there whose kids are already on social media, a couple of things I would offer. One is to start a conversation with your children about social media, about the benefits,

about the harms, but also about when they should be worried if they're being harassed or bullied, as so many kids are. But also recognize there are certain areas in your kid's life that you want to protect. Their sleep, their in-person time with others, and their time for physical activity. And making those times in their life tech-free zones is one way that we can help protect our children. We have resources in our advisory

that can help parents have these conversations. But the bottom line is, we're in the middle of a youth mental health crisis. We've got to do everything possible to help support our kids. That means addressing social media to make it safer. Couldn't agree more. U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy, thank you very much for coming on the show and sharing this with us. Thanks so much. Turning back to politics now, award-winning actor and St. Louis native John Hamm is voicing a new political ad on behalf of U.S. Senate candidate Lucas Kuntz, a Democrat hoping to unseat Missouri Republican Josh Hawley this November. Take a look. Manhood. You'd hope that means courage. Courage isn't something you can give speeches or write a book about. It's not sitting on the sidelines while others sacrifice

or denying help to those who did. It isn't putting people down or trying to control them or using your own power for profit or ambition. In Missouri, you can't fake courage. We're the showy state. Courage is something you have to show us. It shows in the working class people that pitch in to help the family next door bankrupted by medical bills. It shows in the Marine who signed up to honor and serve the community that took care of him.

It shows when a Missourian stands up to the powerful, when he fights to rebuild his state, to empower people, to secure our future. If you want to be told about manhood, some guy wrote a book about it. But if you want someone to show you courage, send Lucas Coons to the Senate. Jim Palmieri, Lucas Coons, that's his second really powerful ad that I've seen so far

this cycle. The question is, in Missouri, does he have a shot? I mean, Missouri is a tough state, right? Jason Kander had really good ads in Missouri as well. Also, also a veteran. And, you know, he did not he did not succeed in winning his Senate race. But at some point, you know, voters have free will. And at some point, you know, we talked about in the earlier segments how facts matter, how the fact that Comer is not coming up with any facts to prove his allegations about the Biden family, that matters. Trump being held accountable for what he says, what he says matters. It has consequences. And, you know, Josh Hawley is, you know, the footage of him running out of the Capitol, the footage of him, things that are

at odds with what he claims to be and then how he votes, how he represents Missouri, how he acts in a time of crisis like we're seeing right now. You know, those things do still matter to to voters. So could this happen in Missouri? Sure. A good candidate running a great campaign and he's off to a good start. When you have someone on the other side that is racking up hypocrisies, I think that that can still matter. Yeah. Well, also, obviously, when you have somebody on the other side that took an active part in stirring people up to overthrow the United States government, like Josh Hawley did, to riot that day, who tried to overthrow a presidential election. Yeah, I would hope the people of Missouri might actually just give a damn about that. Let's bring in Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist and associate editor of The Washington Post, Eugene Robinson. Gene, you saw the ad. What do you think?

I thought it was a really good ad. It's a really good ad. I mean, it and, you know, it goes right at Hawley's manhood thing, which is, I guess I don't know what he's trying to do with this. But I'll tell you, he's not exactly a Schwarzenegger. And it's he's a he's a terrible senator. I think his record—we've seen what he did on January 6th. We've seen his record in the Senate, which is quite undistinguished. And so, let's see if Coons can do it. Missouri is a tough state, as Jen said. It's a very red state. But Josh Hawley, you know, we'll see if he could be a vulnerable candidate running for

reelection. So we should note on the Missouri race that Eric Schmidt won in 2022 by 13 points and Donald Trump won in 2020 there by 15. So certainly a tough hill to climb, even if you've got Don Draper helping out with the ads. Eugene, let's hear about your new column. You took a look at Ron DeSantis' would-be campaign, soon to be announced officially in a matter of days. And your thought that it might be pretty short-lived. Tell us about it. Well, it's just that he has such a thin skin and such a long memory.

He holds grudges. And that's kind of the opposite of most really good politicians I know who have very short memories and very thick skin because today's adversary might be tomorrow's ally. But you look at DeSantis, you look at his crusade against Walt Disney World, you know, fighting to defeat the Magic Kingdom against Bob Iger. Good luck. You look at his at what he has done in Florida in this attempt to to not be outflanked on the right. He has gone so far to the right that he's made himself potentially, and I think actually toxic, to those suburban women voters that the Republican Party needs to win back and that they lost in 2020. They need to win back in 2024. And you look at the six-week abortion ban. You look at the loosening of gun laws.

You look at all the sort of anti-woke nonsense that he has ran through the state legislature. And you see a guy who is kind of making himself less and less electable. And you see that in his poll numbers, I believe, which have gone down as Donald Trump's have gone up. So unless he evolves and unless he changes, I don't know that he's going to stick around very long. He could be this year's, you know, Scott Walker. DeSantis expected to get into the race sometime this week with a chance, I think he hopes, to reset things a little bit. We're going to continue this conversation about the 2024 Republican primary as Tim Scott has thrown his hat into

the race. Senator Scott's message to voters yesterday as he officially kicked off his bid for the White House. We'll discuss that when Morning Joe comes right back. Holds, looking, finds James, takes a pass, falling away, baseline shot, side of the backboard. And a 24-second violation. He traveled in the backboard. There was no violation. Here comes Caldwell Pope.

Looked like players were confused there. Lakers deciding not to foul. Three-second difference. Shot clock. Game clock. Murray against Schroeder. Murray backs in. Turn.

Shoots. Long goal. Rebound deflected. Picked up by James, lost it. And a quick timeout, four seconds remaining. The Lakers will have one more shot. Reeves holding, James comes out of the back. James on the drive, goes inside, stopped, shot blocked, gets it back. It's over! It's over!

And with that, the Los Angeles Lakers season ended last night. LeBron James coming up short on a couple of potential tying shots in the final seconds of regulation with the Lakers down two on both of those possessions, blocked on that last one. The Denver Nuggets completing a four-game sweep of the Lakers in the Western Conference Finals, moving to the franchise's first-ever NBA Finals, and good for them. Nikola Jokic led the Nuggets. He is unreal.

30 points, 14 rebounds, 13 assists for his eighth triple-double of the playoffs, breaking the NBA postseason record set by Wilt Chamberlain in 1967. Denver overcame LeBron's 31-point first half and a 15-point halftime deficit to come back to beat L.A. 113-111. As I said, in the NBA Finals for the first time ever, the Nuggets will face either the Boston Celtics or the Miami Heat. It'll be the Miami Heat. In the NBA Finals, set to tip off on Thursday, June 1st. So a long 10-day layoff for the Nuggets.

The Celtics trail the Heat in the Eastern Conference Finals. Three games to none. Heat can close it out tonight. Game four in Miami. As for the Lakers, last night's season-ending loss has LeBron James mulling retirement maybe. I don't like to say it's a successful year because I don't play for anything besides winning championships

at this point in my career. I don't get a kick out of making a conference appearance. I've done it a lot. We'll see what happens going forward. I don't know. I don't know. I've got a lot to think about, to be honest. I've got a lot to think about, to be honest. I got a lot to think about, to be honest. And just for me personally, going forward with the game of basketball, I got a lot to think about. A lot to think about. So, Jonathan Lemire, you have to take in those low moments after loss,

take things with a grain of salt. That's how you're feeling in that moment. We should say LeBron James, 38 years old, did have some injuries this year, one that's been nagging him still, left to deal with in the offseason, but he still averaged almost 30 points a game as a 38-year-old. Put this team, which had no business being in the Western Conference Finals, on his back. He clearly can still do it. I think most of us think he'll keep playing, but he's going to take some time to think about it. Yeah, we saw yesterday, he played well. He ran out of gas in the fourth quarter. He's still LeBron James, not at his peak, but still a very effective player.

I suspect we will see him again. He has talked openly just in the last few weeks that he wanted to play with his son, who is still more than a year away from potentially making the NBA. There's some thought here he's trying to pressure the Lakers to make some offseason moves, maybe even Kyrie Irving. And I'll just say here, seeing the Lakers get swept takes a little bit of the sting out of the possibility that likely tonight the Celtics are going to get swept. So at least if we can't win it, at least they can.

Yeah, I won't relitigate that game three with you. Wow. That was truly awful. So, Joe, LeBron, we hope, keeps playing. He's so great. He's such a great ambassador for the game. I suspect he will. There's a nice Olympics.

He loves the Olympics next summer, 2024, in Paris that he probably wants to be a part of. And as John said, he has indicated that he'd like to stick around long enough that if his son, Bronny, who will be a freshman this fall at USC, gets to the NBA eventually, that he could potentially play with him, which would be incredible. Wow. Yeah, you know, Gene Robinson, we just said goodbye to a man that many people consider to be the greatest running back in NFL history. But there is one thing that Jim Brown is undisputedly the best at. He was undisputedly the best at knowing when to walk off the stage. Of all the great athletes, he left at his peak.

And you see some players stay a year or two, three years too long. We've grown up seeing that, whether it was Willie Mays or Hank Aaron with the Brewers or whether it was other great football players. And I don't know, kind of, you know, LeBron's an extraordinary guy to watch, but at the same time, you don't want to see him struggling for a year or two extra, do you? No, no, you don't. And you're right.

Most of them do stick around a year or two longer than they really should. LeBron scored 40 last night. I mean, he was terrific. Yeah, he was a little tired at the end, but LeBron James barreling down the court toward you is still a really, really fearsome sight. That said, he could only carry this team so far, he and Anthony Davis, and they had no business being there. I think he'll think about it. I think he could play at a very high level at least one more year. And so I'm guessing he'll do that.