Morning Joe - Morning Joe 5/23/25

Episode Date: May 23, 2025

House passes sweeping domestic policy package after Trump and Speaker Johnson win over holdouts

I couldn't care less if he's upset. I'm concerned about my children, my grandchildren, and the fact that we are stealing from them. We are stealing from our children and grandchildren. Thirty-seven trillion dollars in debt and we're going to add to it as Republicans? That is unacceptable. And that's why there's no way I'm going to vote for this bill in its current form. The House bill is going to add about four trillion to the debt ceiling. The Senate bill adds $5 trillion. There's nothing fiscally conservative about expanding the debt ceiling more than we've ever done it before. I mean, the Senate's going to want to put its own stamp on this.

We'll write our own version of the bill. I talked to the president about this last night, and his instructions were pretty clear. Don't cut Medicaid. You're hearing it there. Many Republican senators simply not buying what the House is selling when it comes to President Trump's massive tax and spending bill. We'll go through the possible changes that could come from the upper chamber. Meanwhile, several Democratic lawmakers are calling out President Trump for his private

crypto dinner over its apparent conflicts of interest. We'll bring you more about that controversial event in just a moment. Plus, a prominent international university is putting out an open invitation to thousands of Harvard students after the Trump administration banned them from the Ivy League institution. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Friday, May 23rd. I'm Jonathan Lemire. I'm in for Joe, Mika, and Willie. We have a busy morning ahead.

Thankfully, we've got a great group with us to help us sort it out. That includes the host of Way Too Early, Ali Vitale, Pulitzer Prize winning columnist and MSNBC political analyst, Eugene Robinson, and Chief White House Corresponder for the New York Times, Peter Baker. Thanks to you all for being with us.

And we'll begin, though, this morning with the latest developments on the shooting deaths of two Israeli embassy staff members Wednesday night. Police have now charged a suspect with first-degree murder for those killings. Police say the 31-year-old gunman confessed to shooting Yaron Lashinsky and Sarah Milgram outside the Capitol Jewish Museum in Washington Wednesday night.

The suspect then walked inside the museum where he was promptly detained by event security. According to an affidavit, when police arrived at the museum, the gunman said this, I did it for Palestine. I did it for Gaza. I am unarmed. The suspect did not enter a plea during his arraignment hearing yesterday. It's believed he shot the couple multiple times. Police recovered 21 shell casings from the scene and they found the gun nearby. Yesterday, authorities searched the gunman's home in Chicago. Police say he flew to DC on Tuesday

and legally checked the gun with his baggage. The suspect is college educated and had a job at a medical association. Peter Baker, let's talk about this for a moment. First and foremost, this of course is a human tragedy. These two young people just starting out their lives. Reports are traveling to Israel soon where they were to be engaged. Just a horrible, horrible moment.

It also speaks though to this larger culture of not just anti-Semitism, which of course dates centuries, but just anger and hate that we have seen that's really accelerated in the last year and a half or so since October 7th and then the resulting war and crisis in Gaza. Just as someone who knows Washington so well, speak to us just about what is the mood there? Were there events like this that happen multiple times a week and now it feels like people are looking over their shoulder not knowing what could be next? Yeah, I mean, effectively, it's an act of terrorism here in the nation's capital, right? The employees of a foreign diplomatic mission, an ally, have been gunned down right here,

not far from the White House, not far from the Capitol, and for no other reason than they work for the Israeli embassy, no other reason than the fact that this person obviously had a political motives in terms of what's happening in Gaza. And it's in flames, a situation that's already been pretty hot as it is since October 7th, both over the Hamas attack on Israel and the response to that. Now, it seemed things had calmed down a little bit here in Washington. I drive by the Israeli embassy most every weekend, and the protests are mostly gone. The security that had been so ramped up for months,

the sense of bristling tension there had seemed to fade. But this now, of course, will just add to the sense of fear, the sense of uncertainty, and the sense of, you know, instability about life here in the nation's capital, where you don't expect this kind of thing. And we will, of course, bring you any updates on this story as they develop throughout the morning. Turning to politics now, the sweeping domestic policy bill that House Republicans narrowly

passed yesterday is running into some fierce early resistance over in the Senate. NBC News chief Capitol Hill correspondent Ryan Nobles has the latest on the fight to advance President Trump's agenda. A major victory for President Trump after his signature legislative package cleared a big hurdle, narrowly passing the House Speaker Mike Johnson, making good on a promise to pass the bill before the holiday weekend. The House has passed generational, truly nation-shaping legislation to reduce spending and permanently lower taxes for families and job creators.

The massive 1,000-page bill delivers a slew of President Trump's campaign promises, including extending $4.5 trillion in tax cuts passed in the first Trump administration, eliminating income taxes on tips and overtime, and provides billions of dollars in funding for the border wall and mass deportations. It also makes changes to Medicaid, imposing work requirements for the able-bodied adults without dependents in order to stay on the program.

Democrats oppose it, saying it will lead to millions losing health coverage. This day may very well turn out to be the day that House Republicans lost control of the United States House of Representatives. But the bill now faces a rocky path in the Republican-held Senate. The Senate's gonna wanna put its own stamp on this.

We'll write our own version of the bill. Senate Republicans can only lose two votes, and GOP senators are already saying the bill does not cut spending enough. We are stealing from our children and grandchildren and that's why there's no way I'm going to vote for this bill in its current form. Alley of a tally we know that House Speaker Johnson has a

couple of times now really caution the Senate look we put a lot of work into this the bill is perfect as is don't touch it well they're not listening. The Senate doesn't like to be lectured from the House to begin with. And there's a lot in here that we've been playing this morning that the Senate is simply

they're not comfortable with. So take us take us inside the GOP there in the upper chamber. What is going to be the game plan as they look at this piece of legislation? So I think the conversation that as they look at this piece of legislation? So I think the conversation that we were having at the end of way too early is actually the right way to tee this up.

It's around the idea that the Senate is going to make changes, but the extent to those changes is sort of up in the air because yes, you've heard Republican senators say that they are uncomfortable with the idea of cutting this much from Medicaid, of taking away food assistance programs and other pieces of the legislation. And yet, it's really not going to be easy for them to find more cuts than the House was able to find. And so that might limit their ability to make these kinds of changes. And then don't forget the fact

that Trump is looming over all of this and has shown that he's willing to bring everyone in, give them a verbal lashing, and then say that they need to get on board with the bill. And so Eugene, whether there's changes or not, Republicans in the house are still going to have to defend the package that they hear initially voted for. And it's full of things that mean that people could lose food assistance programs and lose healthcare.

Yeah. There's lots of reasons for this bill to be unpopular. And one of them, of course, is this huge cut to Medicaid, which affects so many people, it affects rural hospitals across the country, affects red states as well as blue. And so that is a very big deal. The other thing that's a huge deal is that this adds trillions of dollars to the deficit. The Republican Party, I'm old enough to remember when the Republican Party really cared a lot about trying to reduce our accumulated debt, which is now greater than 100 percent of our GDP. But this just makes it worse by continuing

these enormous tax cuts. And so they got a lot of explaining to do and I think the Senate is going to rightly be worried that a lot of voters are gonna have questions about various parts of this big, I don't think so beautiful bill. Yeah, other folks have been substituting various adjectives for beautiful. Joining us now, contributing columnist for The Hill, Matt Lewis. Matt, good morning. The bill certainly has elements of it that would appear to be politically rather unpopular,

but it's also, and this is an interesting aspect of this, we heard from these Republican senators, by their definition, it's actually not conservative, not conservative at all. Where do you see, as you see here Charles C. Cook, a conservative writer, says the Senate should rip it to pieces. Give us your sense as to what this bill actually is and what its future might be. Yeah, look, it takes a lot of hoods, but pass a bill that raises the deficit by trillions of dollars and call it conservative. It seems like their definition of limited government is spending like a drunken sailor

who just won the lottery. So it will be interesting to see. Obviously the House Freedom Caucus mostly went along with this, and we'll see if some of the deficit and budget hawks in the Senate do as well. Let me say though, I am impressed with the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson. This is a guy who, I mean, this is like finding out the guy who volunteers to run the church potluck somehow rewrote the tax code.

I mean, it's stunning to me what he has pulled off. But of course, it's not Mike Johnson pulling it off. It's Donald Trump. And to me, that's what the big story here is. It's this Republican Congress, with a couple of exceptions like Thomas Massey, is going to do whatever Donald Trump tells them to do. And so, yes, I think that the Senate will find a way to put their stamp, as Josh Hawley

said, on this bill. And there will be tweaks, but at the end of the day, this is a party completely beholden to Donald Trump. I don't think he really cares that much about the details, about Medicaid, about spending. I think he likes getting things done and having a deal. And so this will happen. He likes getting a deal and he likes the tax cuts to be sure. So Peter Baker, let's natural segue to you here about how the White House is looking at all of this. President Trump has certainly posted on Truth Social

a few celebratory messages in the last day or so since the House passed the bill. But look, aides I too speak to, they see some of the misgivings the Senate is expressing. People you've talked to within the West Wing, how are they going to approach this? Do they anticipate the Senate, like the House, will eventually fall in line?

Yeah, I think they think that eventually it will. It doesn't mean it's gonna be a pretty path to approach this. Do they anticipate the Senate, like the House, will eventually fall in line? Yeah, I think they think that eventually it will. It doesn't mean it's going to be a pretty path to get there. There's going to be plenty of twists and turns. They still hope to get it all done by the 4th of July so he can make it a patriotic act of signing the bill. President said the other day, I think that it will be the most impactful, most extraordinary legislation in the history of the country, which of course one can debate, but he has attached that much importance to it, right? And therefore it's too big to fail, right? It's not going to let Senators qualms get in the way of a final passage. And I think to your point, to Matt's point, I don't think he cares

what's in it today. As long as he's able to say he has big tax cuts, he does want to deliver on specific campaign promises like eliminating taxes on tips and overtime, things he can point to and say promises made, promises delivered. But beyond that, he has no problem if the senators want to fiddle around with it as long as it doesn't poison it in a way

that means it can't be passed also again in the House once it returns there. I interviewed his chief tax policy person from the first administration a few years back about the original tax cut bill. And he said Donald Trump had nothing to do with it. He had zero to do with any of the details. It was crafted entirely by the Hill.

That's what's gonna happen again here, but he is the hammer. He's the guy you bring in at the end to say, okay, enough fiddling around, just pass it. And I imagine at some point they'll get to that same stage, whether they can get it done by the fourth or not, you know, open question. Yeah, his grip on the Republican Party remains vice-like. More news from the Trump administration yesterday.

It has now revoked Harvard University's ability to enroll international students, the latest escalation in its battle against that Ivy League school. The Department of Justice announced in a letter yesterday ability to enroll international students, the latest escalation in its battle against that Ivy League school. The Department of Justice announced in a letter yesterday that it is pulling the school's exchange visitor program certification saying Harvard's created an unsafe campus environment that is, quote, hostile to Jewish students, promotes pro-Hamas sympathies, and employs

racist diversity, equity, and inclusion policies. The DOJ also accused the university of coordinating with the Chinese Communist Party. Harvard called the action unlawful and says it's working to provide guidance and support to students and the community. The university has nearly 7,000 international students which make up about 27% of the entire student body. Meanwhile, just a few moments ago, the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, a big, elite school there, shared an open invitation to international undergraduate

and postgraduate students currently enrolled at Harvard, inviting them to continue their academic career at their school over in Hong Kong. The university says it will prioritize expedited admissions, credit transfers, and tailored support, including visa assistance and housing to ensure a smooth transition. And Gene Robinson, there are a number of beats we need to cover on this.

First of all, this is unprecedented. The federal government would step in private university There are a number of beats we need to cover on this. First of all, this is unprecedented. The federal government would step in private university like this and tell them who or who they cannot admit. But so speak on that please. But also, you know, this is going to be furtherance of a brain drain we are seeing here in the United States. We've already seen these research grants be cut earlier in the administration.

And now international students, if they can't practice their craft here, if they can't learn here and then potentially go on to careers here, other universities around the world, other countries will be happy to have them and will be poorer for it. Yeah, just in order, Jonathan. First of all, Harvard says this is unlawful. It seems to me to be yet another bill of attainder, which is prohibited by the Constitution. You can't go after an individual like that

with an official action. And so I'm sure they'll go to court. And we should keep in mind that Harvard has a $53 billion endowment. It has the money to fight this fight and to hold out potentially, I guess, for the four years of the Trump administration, if it has to. But anybody who's not worried about the brain drain really ought to be. Because there's not only this, we're not only driving away these brilliant students who, yes, contribute a lot

to Harvard's bottom line, but they have to be the smartest of the smart from around the world to get in. And they come here and they make huge investments of their brain power in new technologies, in new medicine, in all the stuff in which the United States is a leader. Our system of higher education is or has been the envy of the world. And that is being simply ruined. If you're a brilliant student in India

or in Belgium or anywhere, and you were thinking about, boy, they have just the program I wanted at Harvard. What are you going to do now? You know, you can't come to Harvard right now, and you're going to look elsewhere. This on top of the cuts to research funds that are driving scientists, not just foreign-born scientists, but U.S. scientists abroad, where they are being welcomed by other great universities around the world. This is a serious brain drain, and it really

will have serious implications in the years to come. It's the warning that we were hearing consistently after all of those Doge cuts at NIH and CDC and other places. Exactly. And it makes sense, of course, in the way that it trickles to educational institutions. Well, exactly. And there are schools just saying, OK, we'll fund your lab.

You know, Europe is basically saying, come on over here. You can have your lab. You can have money. That's what they're going to do. That's what they're going to do. But, Matt, it strikes me, and I think we all know this, Trump always needs a foil. It strikes me that he might be trying to make Harvard one of them, given the fact that he doesn't have an obvious Democratic rival right now.

Is that what this feels like to you? What's behind this assault on higher education from the administration? And if we're applying litmus tests of is this conservative, is this not, in the way that we were talking about the reconciliation bill, what do you make of this piece, the way that the administration is going after Ivy League schools like

Harvard? Right. Well, I would say long before Trump, you know, there was a sense amongst conservatives that the commanding heights of culture were dominated by liberals, progressives, and by the left, and that culture

is more important than politics. And therefore, if the left is driving academia, if the left is driving Hollywood, the movies we watch, the music we listen to, the things our children, young people are taught, then eventually, this long march, they win, right? Because that's how you take over. You take over the culture first, and then eventually you have the elites, everybody else falls into play. That's sort of what mainstream conservatives have long feared.

I think with Donald Trump, there's an added aspect to it, which is he likes to pick his enemies. And what he wants to do is pick people that are unpopular in the populist sense. And so going after immigrants are easy marks for Donald Trump. Going after the pointy heads, academia on college campuses. There's not a lot of defenders for these people. If you go to the average person at a diner, they're not too worried about some foreign student at Harvard, right? It's almost like a tailor-made to demagogue them and to villainize them.

But of course, as everyone has pointed out, one of America's big secret weapons actually is the fact that we are a magnet for brilliant people to come here and to give us ideas, discoveries, inventions. And what we are seeing is that is coming to an end. And I think that it's not going to happen overnight, but there will be very serious long-term implications when it does happen. No question there. And also, one wonders if this is going to stop with Harvard. Everybody stay with us.

We're gonna sneak in a quick break. We have a lot more to get to. Now coming up next on Morning Joe, we'll talk about the new ethical concerns surrounding a private dinner hosted by the President of the United States for the top holders of his personal crypto currency. Plus, we'll bring you a check on the Memorial Day weekend forecast as millions of

Americans prepare to hit the road. And a quick reminder that the Morning Joe podcast is available each weekday, featuring our full conversations and analysis. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Morning Joe back in just 90 seconds. Here the United States Armed Forces are ready to party. The Navy is turning 250. Celebrate across America with fleet weeks, air shows, and demonstrations.

And the Army is also turning 250. Salute the Army with nationwide parades, concerts, and reenactments. And we almost forgot the Space Force is turning 6. Celebrate at the Youngers Chuck E. Cheese from 2 to 4 p.m. this Sunday. Come on! Where are they? Where on Space Force? They're representing?

How many people we have from the Space Force? Three people. Hey! Nice to see you. Thank you for your service. Nice to see you. Thank you for your service. Come on! Got to make sure we get them over to Chuck E. Cheese on Sunday. All right, we got it. Big celebration. I always appreciate a good Space Force joke,

but, of course, we appreciate everyone's service as we head into this Memorial Day weekend. In a record 45.1 million people are expected to travel over this holiday weekend. According to AAA, more than 38 million people will drive to their destination, most of them across the Staten Island Expressway. That's what I'm convinced.

That's the highest number the group has ever recorded for Memorial Day weekend. 3.5 million expected to fly, which is a 2% increase from last year. Let's go to meteorologist Angie Lassman for the holiday weekend forecast. So Angie, people are gonna be hitting the roads. What sort of weather are they gonna encounter? Jonathan, it's hard to be a meteorologist on Memorial Day weekend when people want summertime weather.

And unfortunately, we've got a couple of bumps that we're gonna have to deal with across a couple spots across the few of those. We'll see s those winds and low cloud today for parts of the ne England. Meanwhile, we've dealing with some of those thunderstorms. We're goin

ramp up later today. So t the airports that I could some delays as we get int start to see things ramp once again, those severe picture out west, not a h be likely seeing some del tomorrow, we really start for the Great Plains once storms will be in the pic a whole lot to worry about of nice and quiet and tem quite warm. We'll still b

cloudy conditions across some of those thunderstorm the southeast Nashville, spots to watch if you're of those airports or trave near there as we get into Saturday sund only getting worse for th Unfortunately, it's going

plans, places like Little st Louis, Dallas, all of deal with some heavy rain severe weather, it'll al So ST Louis and Nashville look great for sunday. Lo memorial day once again, we're spreading it a litt So we see places like At airports don't look great ahead to monday memorial areas. But now we're spre

to the east. So we see pl New Orleans, Houston, all rain. Those thunderstorms Nashville, Dallas, Austin are going to be some airpo to be likely difficult to as we get into monday Jon things look quite nice, p

and warm temperatures the I would go if I could choose. My focus the soccer fields of suburban Philadelphia. A youth tournament this weekend. How delightful. All right Angie Lastman thank you so much have a great weekend. As we tease before the break President Trump held a private dinner last night for more than 200 investors who bought into his meme coin. The event was held at his golf club in Northern Virginia. NBC News has learned that the guests paid between $55,000 and $37.7 million for the Trump coin, making the average cost of a seat at the dinner over $1 million. While the website for

the contest says the president was appearing as a guest and not soliciting any funds for it, another site says that 80% of the Trump coin project is owned by two companies affiliated or in business with President Trump. On top of that, the identities of most of the attendees are largely private, but the majority of the 220 guests are likely foreign investors based on independent research and blockchain analysis. All of this is raising ethics concerns about buying access to the president and him using the dinner to personally enrich himself. That's why there were dozens of protesters outside of Trump's golf club in Sterling, Virginia,

as guests were arriving last night. The White House yesterday, of course, dismissed any conflicts of interest, but several Democratic senators saw major issues. On the president's dinner tonight, will the White House commit to making a list of the attendees public so people can see who's paying for that kind

of access to the president? Well, as you know, Gareth, this question has been raised with the president. I have also addressed the dinner tonight. The president is attending it in his personal time. It is not a White House dinner. It's not taking place here at the White House. But certainly I can raise that question and try to get you an answer for it. You mentioned this is not a White House dinner, but the president is always the president and the Trump

family is making money off of this so can you just explain how is this not the president using the office to enrich himself? All of the president's assets are in a blind trust which is managed by his children and I would argue one of the many reasons that the American people re-elected this president back to this office is because he was a very successful businessman before giving it up to publicly serve our country. Just because the corruption is playing out in public where everybody can see it doesn't mean that it isn't rampant, rapacious corruption.

And what is happening tonight, this private secret dinner in which individuals who have put money in Donald Trump's pocket get access to him is maybe the most corrupt of all the corruption. Donald Trump is using the presidency of the United States to make himself richer through crypto. And he's doing it right out there in plain sight. President Trump is saying, open your wallet, hand me your money, and we'll consider the request that you have. This story is about Donald Trump, but it's also about Republicans.

It's about Republicans having no backbone or spine. It's about Republicans complicit in Donald Trump's corruption. Peter Baker, the concerns over the Trump hotel in the first term seem almost quaint with where we are now. Just a couple of days after the brouhaha over the Qatari jet, now we have this and that package laid out so well, the concerns about President Trump and his family enriching themselves because with this meme coin, I mean, you've covered the White House for a long time.

I mean, I'm almost speechless at this. Could you imagine if Barack Obama or Joe Biden did anything like it? No, we couldn't. They never did anything like this. It's not the first presidential family that kind of profited off the White House. You can certainly find other examples of that in history. But the scale of this, the scope of this is so far beyond anything history has ever seen.

It's not just even this cryptocurrency thing, although hundreds of millions of dollars have gone to the president's family and businesses in fees because of this coin, which is basically just a reminder. There's nothing to it. A coin is not a value of anything. It's not even a stock. It's not even a share of a company that's producing something. It's just simply there for people to buy because they want a curry favor with the president. They can do it anonymously.

They can do it secretly. By the way, foreign entities can do that. We also saw as he went around the Middle East last week, the president, his family was out there, you know, sealing deals, making deals. They have been building projects. They obviously had interest from people who would like to carry favor with the president of the United States. Melania Trump made $28 million from this Amazon film, whatever we want to call it, basically

an extended advertisement for her that they have made her executive producer, and she's going to be profiting from. The endless numbers of ways that this family is making money, put even Hunter Biden, as much as the Republicans complained about him trading on his father's name, it makes him look like a piker by comparison. Yeah, it's simply not comparable. Matt Lewis, I mean, we saw Lamar Odom was the NBA star, apparently, who also was there last night.

Why do Republicans not care? Because whatever Donald Trump wants to do, Donald Trump does. And they saw, whether it's the Access Hollywood video or the indictments, that this guy is magic and he always ends up landing on his feet and their base loves him. So they're afraid of him. So some of them may care a little bit, but not enough to do anything about it. But look, the implications here are serious, right?

Democracy isn't dying, it's being rug pulled. That's basically what the message here is. And, you know, it's hard to look at what happened last night and not see it anything other than bribery dressed up as a fancy cocktail hour. I mean, it's so obvious it would be transparent if we knew who was there, but it's transparently it is obviously bribery. And, you know, as Peter was saying, we've seen something like this before, not to this extent, certainly, but I'm old enough to remember Bill Clinton and allegations of bringing out the Lincoln bedroom and Chinese donors and scandals, real scandals that I think actually damaged Bill Clinton, the accumulation of these scandals, certainly.

I wonder why that's not happening now. I don't want to blame the victims here, but I don't think Democrats have a Newt Gingrich or a Rush Limbaugh. And if they did, you know, we see those Democrats standing up there condemning this. I don't think it's landing yet. And so, you know, yes, Republicans ought to be standing up

and holding their president, their standard bearer accountable, I don't think the Democrats yet have the juice to take what is just transparently bribery and make it matter to the American people. Well, we'll hear from one of those Democrats, Senator Amy Klobuchar, a little later this morning. We'll certainly revisit this topic with her. Author and columnist Matt Lewis and chief White House cor

Times, Peter Baker, our t coming up here on morning Pablo Torre is here to ta playoffs, including a tra the Knicks the other night in on the end of an era o of the original sports de off for the final time later today.

Morning Joe, we'll be right back. ["The Daily Show Theme"] Five second different shot clock in game time. Gilder's Alexander with three pointer, knocks it down. Jay Gilder's Alexander, three pointer knocks it down. Jay Gilder's Alexander SGA making a contested step back three to extend the Thunder's lead at the close the second quarter. One night after being named the NBA's most valuable player, the Oklahoma City star showed he was the right choice scoring 38 points to lead the Thunder to a 118 to 103 win over the Minnesota Timberwolves and give them a two game to to gain lead in the

Western Conference finals. The series now shifts to Minneapolis for game 3 tomorrow. Tonight here next host Indiana Pacers in game 2 of the Eastern Conference finals. The next will try to pull even with the Pacers after Indiana's historic comeback win in the series opener. Joining us now, the host of Pablo Torre Finds Out on MetalArk Media, MSNBC contributor, Pablo Torre.

Back page there, the post says, it's no joke. We'll come, save your Knicks thoughts for one second. Let's go Thunder real quick first. I would love to save my Knicks thoughts for another time. No, no, we will go into it that great length and death. But first on the thunder there is a sense we will each on the show a few days got to believe you. Yeah, well, and he said something that you know we're talking about how the playoffs have

been fun. Obviously a lot of excitement here about the next there's a chance that all along I'll say I thought this to when the South even the subjects were alive. Everyone might just be playing for second the The Thunder might just be that good. Yeah, from a regular season is actually an indicator of postseason success. You know, past performance might actually be an indicator of future results,

as they warn you not to believe in the stock market and the NBA postseason. It might be the case that the Thunder are just so well constructed, so deep. So by the way, skilled, that yeah, the team that was best almost 70 games, one in the regular season might just be heads and shoulders above everybody else. The thing about the T Wolves man, like this is a young deep team that is also constructed well, but the shade Gilder's Alexander thing, John, I'm worried.

I'm worried that we might, look, NBA fans, we love to point out when there are foul merchants. When people are playing like tax attorneys, looking for loopholes, falling down in front of cars, Shakeholtz Alexander has that reputation now, but he's also the MVP of the league. And so just don't underestimate him, even if you don't like the product and the style he plays,

because he might just be that good. Yeah, I mean the two biggest file merchants in the league are Jalen Bronson and SGA. They're both both both that is very talented. Unfortunately, correct. So let's let's turn now to to the Knicks. It's been you know, 36 hours or so since that game one loss, which was a look at extraordinary comeback for the Pacers and all time, including the you know, the bouncing ball at the end that dropped through but

also that the Knicks fall apart at that you know when they seem like they had the game one so talk to us about game 2 tonight, obviously it's a must win for New York. But what is that building going to be like next and so excited and now so shell shocked. Yeah. This was one of the greatest and by that I mean most painful losses in the history of sports and the theater of it is meant figuratively and literally the theater of what you just saw Halliburton shot by the way that done from obi top and who the Knicks let go he double pumped through it and one to win the game and underneath but. on down the line of theater in the literal venue, the literal theater of Madison Square Garden.

And so when I watch clips like this, as someone who was born and raised in the city, has tried to emotionally dissociate from the Knicks, is I see the sequencing of the Knicks genetic code. Johnny, you know what I see? I see some Mets in there. I see the whole idea of I think we can have nice things only to realize that you cannot

and that is that traumatic generational fear that now permeates the building that's the concern is that this is prologue and also our past. So Jean Robinson obviously it you know just such trauma for the Knicks but let's let's give the Pacers credit to the way they close that game. This is their 3rd unbelievable comeback of these playoffs. Tyrese Haliburton and look he brought up some NBA fans the wrong way certainly not very popular here in New York now, but the guy is

clutch and the other thing the Pacers are gene is there deep and the Knicks are not and the Pacers run You know tonight It's this is this is suddenly an uphill battle for for New York tonight at home and then two straight in Indianapolis Yeah This could be the season of depth in the in the NBA because you got the Pacers and of course you got the Thunder and They just keep in the second half of games they just keep throwing guys out there young guys who run fast and who are fresh and who run their opponents into the ground and that's

what happened I mean the Knicks have to be so traumatized by that loss punctuated, of course, by the. I like to need to see that. Reggie Miller chose inappropriate for just amazing. So I'd say, look, it's I wish the Knicks well. I hope they can win a game tonight. But we'll we'll see if they can sort of get over the psychic trauma and wound that that happened two nights ago, which was just maybe fatal.

We'll see. Yeah, the choke sign, something that makes rare appearances here on Morning Joe, far more often, though, on ESPN's Around the Horn. Pablo, you made your final appearance on that show yesterday. Today, with the last broadcast for the program, which is run at 5 p.m. Eastern, five days a week on that network since 2002.

And you talked about it with longtime host Tony Reale. Mostly, I just wanted to find out how you thought. How I was doing. I know. About. People are just checking in, being like, how are you? I mean, it's so, so I know I put myself out there in ways and I've shown, you know, you know, the ability to be vulnerable on camera, which, you know, it's, I don't even mean to say on camera,

just vulnerable in life. Right. And people, you know, are just like, yeah, how you doing? You know, I, you know, I, I am, I'm going to be surprised about how I, how you doing? You know, I'm gonna be surprised about how I am on TV that day, I think. I am, because I have no idea. I don't think I'm gonna be a mess, but my kids are gonna be there, and I'm gonna be trying to have the best moment possible. How do you say goodbye to something

that is your heart outside of your body? I'm about to be showing people that in real time. And Pablo, it can't be said enough. The the pairing of Around the Horn and Parting Interruption, that was so seminal for so long.

And Around the Horn, you know, has revolutionized, you know, a lot of how we think about sports debate. I know it means a lot to you. So give us your thoughts here as an era comes to an end. Yeah, this was a show that became a family.

And I say that to you and this set because I think there are some parallels. This is a long running show with a family atmosphere in which journalists were put on television. That's the key thing, John, as we look at the evolution of sports television broadly is there has been a movement. And by the key thing, John, as we look at the evolution of sports television broadly, is there has been a movement, and by the way, former coaches, former players, influencers even, they should be at the table too.

But journalism feels like the thing that has been sidelined. And journalism is the real heart and soul when you got these panelists, these columnists from newsrooms, John, if you remember, it it was literal newsrooms they'd be beaming in onto those plasma screens on around the horn for that happy hour of 5 to 6 p.m. every day 23 years man Tony reality 4,953 episodes today one of the great guys who was I mean look personally I changed my life, personally, it changed my life. And I think it changed the industry too, for the better, even as, by the way, I acknowledge,

it was kind of like stepping into a dunk tank. You know, Joe here would joke about how it'd be nice to have a mute button and some points. Be careful what you wish for, right? Like, it's not for the faint of heart, but that family is why everybody loves stepping into it. And when we say goodbye to something like that, that's existed for so long, I just want people to remember the people behind the scenes too. Of course. Two decades of producers, two decades of people who made journalists a lot better than they are and had any right to be on television. So thank you to them.

Thank you to Tony reality. Thank you to you guys for letting us, you know, extend the goodbye into the cable news television ecosystem. Also, I think there's many of us here, and I would count myself among them who were avid viewers of that show. I mean, I remember in high school, I would stay on the elliptical machine at the gym for as long as this show was on the air. I didn't want to miss if Woody Page would change

what was on the whiteboard. I didn't want to miss if someone was going to gait those points at the end of the show. I mean, it was magic. And I think for so many of us who love television and authenticity on television, your podcast this week was so good with Tony because it showed that a lot of

that authenticity yes came from the guests being expert journalists, but it also came from him as the host right. No question no question. Ali I appreciate you saying all that Tony reality. I use this phrase with him and as one of the great Italian Americans on television he recoils but it truly was when you're here your family. As Italians we bristle at that actually. Yeah no, understood understood. I cautiously quote Olive Garden to praise one of the great institutions in sports television. But you're right like it was it was something where we had an opportunity to express ourselves and to take sports seriously,

but not ourselves quite as much. And that, I think, is a formula that, again, like, it's not novel in that way, but when you do it for this long, and you create, by the way, a pipeline of talent that diversified sports television, that democratized it, that allowed me me you're playing a clip in which I'm not being muted which is a real treat for me because

you're also speaking to by the way I was informed this yesterday on my last ever show I did 605 shows as a panelist I am officially the lowest points per show average or in the history of around the horn so quite the bat what what what a no bit you're on pace to the same here on I've been told that reliably we we certainly end of an era and we wish everyone on the show well still ahead. We'll bring some highlights from what

Maryland graduates were calling the Kermencement. You know what it is. Plus, Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota will join us to discuss the domestic policy bill passed by the House, as well as her trip to Canada to meet newly elected Prime Minister Mark Carney. Morning, Joe. I'll be right back. Welcome back.

I love this. Kermit the Frog. Yes, Kermit the Frog traveled to the University of Maryland yesterday to speak at this year's commencement or Kermencement as some students dubbed it. Swapping his trademark collar for a cap and gown, Kermit, there he is, delivered a hopeful message to the graduates. So as you prepare to take this big leap into real life, here's a little advice if you're willing to listen to a frog. Rather than jumping over someone to get what you want, consider reaching out your hand and taking the leap side by side. Because life is better when we leap together like a movie. Write your own ending. Keep believing.

Keep pretending. You've all done just what you set out to do. And you're just getting started. Carmet is no stranger to the university. He is featured in a statue on campus next to Muppets creator and Maryland alum Jim Henson.