Morning Joe - Morning Joe 5/26/25

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

Trump posts Putin 'has gone absolutely crazy!'

Beautiful shot of New York City. 6 a.m. here in the East Coast. Good morning and welcome to a special holiday edition of Morning Joe. It is Monday, May 26th. It is Memorial Day. We thank you for spending part of the holiday with us, and of course, we thank all of those who made the ultimate sacrifice in the name of our nation's freedom and defense. We have a lot to get to this morning, including President Trump's tariffs.

He's delaying a major increase on the EU, something he threatened just a few days ago, but he is for now standing by a possible 25% tariff for Apple and other smartphone manufacturers. Also ahead, we'll go through the strong opposition from Republican senators to the sprawling domestic package that House Republicans passed last week. Plus, we'll bring you highlights from an incredible comeback last night in Indiana as the New York Knicks suddenly have new life in the Eastern Conference finals. With us, we have the host of Way Too Early, Ali Vitale. Ali, good morning, great to see you.

We have a lot to get to on this Holiday Monday, so let's dive right in. We'll begin with President Donald Trump expressing growing frustration with Russian President Vladimir Putin amid the Kremlin's latest assault on Ukraine. In a social media post last night, he said Putin has, quote, gone absolutely crazy. In the same post, though, he goes on to criticize Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky while blaming him,

Zelensky, Putin, and President Joe Biden for the war. Earlier in the day, on the tarmac in New Jersey, outside his golf club there in Bedminster, President Trump spoke about the situation to reporters. I'm not happy with what Putin's doing. He's killing a lot of people and I don't know what the hell happened to Putin. I've known him a long time, always gotten along with him, but he's sending rockets into cities and killing people and I don't like it at all.

Okay? We're in the middle of talking and he's shooting rockets into Kiev and other cities. I don't like it at all. OK, we're in the middle of talking and he's shooting rockets into Kiev and other cities. I don't like it at all. What do you want to do about that? I'm surprised. I'm very surprised. We'll see what we're going to do. What am I going to tell you? You're the fake news, aren't you? You're totally fake. Any other questions? I don't like what Putin is doing. Not even a little bit. He's killing people. And something happened to this guy and I don't like what Putin is doing, not even a little bit. He's killing people. And something happened to this guy, and I don't like it. It is hard to argue that President Putin of Russia's behavior has changed at any point

during this war. Trump claims things are there. But the residents' comments come just hours after at least 12 people were killed throughout Ukraine as Russia launched over 350 drones and missiles into the country overnight into Sunday, dozens more were injured then in one of the largest assaults of the war so far. It was followed up with more attacks this morning after Trump's words, marking the third consecutive day of large-scale strikes targeting civilians. Now as Russia launched missiles and drones throughout Ukraine, both sides did complete

their largest prisoner swap of the war. It was done in three phases, from Friday to Sunday, and included hundreds of soldiers from both sides. The terms, which were agreed upon in those meetings in Turkey earlier this month, included 303 soldiers exchanged yesterday, 307 combatants and civilians on Saturday, and then 390 back on Friday. President Zelensky posted on social media celebrating the news while vowing to bring home every soldier captured by Russia in the war. Joining us now, the editor at the Insider, Michael

Weiss. Michael, we're always so grateful when you join us to talk about the situation in Ukraine and a lot to get to. Let's start with President Trump's words just now, where he is claiming somehow that Putin's behavior has changed during this war, when it has not. Putin has been dead set on claiming Ukraine, or as much of it as he can, since February 2022, if not earlier. or as much of it as he can since February 2022, if not earlier. And also, tell us about that, the shift you're seeing. And also, you know, Trump has been angry at Putin before, briefly, hasn't done anything about it. Putin seems to know that, and that's why he's acting in such defiance, continuing these

strikes. I think the most generous interpretation we can make is that Donald Trump genuinely believes that the force of his own personality, and I suppose his charisma and his intellect could bend Putin to his will, and that Putin, as a gesture, good grace, if you like, would stop the war, pause the war, diminish his capacity to do harm in pursuit of these negotiations. The Russian president's response is, F off, basically. He's humiliating Trump. He's embarrassing Trump's so-called peace process.

He's showing through fire and steel that he has absolutely no interest in stopping the war either temporarily or permanently. The Russian goal has been from day one, the complete conquest of Ukraine. What they can't capture through military means, they seek to capture through political means. I mean, Dmitry Peskov, Putin's press secretary, said this in the New York Times, or was quoted in New York Times rather saying, we would very much appreciate if America's political structures would essentially complete our ambition for us, which is the wholesale capture of the state of Ukraine.

So I think Donald Trump is finding out the hard way that he cannot end this war. Certainly, he wasn't able to do so in 24 hours, as he famously said on the campaign trail. He can't even do so in the space of more than 100 days of his second term. Now, the question is, and here's where I'm a little bit skeptical, actually more than a little bit skeptical, the question is, what is he prepared to do about it? There's a lot of things in the US arsenal, and I don't just mean weapons arsenal, sanctions, financial penalties that can be inflicted. Lindsey Graham, who is the Trump whisperer in the Senate, has this neutron bomb of a sanctions package, which would impose 500% tariffs on any country importing oil,

gas, petroleum products, or uranium from Russia. He says he's got more than 80 senators on board to pass this bill. It's a veto-approved majority. Where is it? It is well past time to impose a cost on what Russia is doing. And yet here we are talking about future talks, possibly at the Vatican. Trump is very upset, but he's upset not to the point of preparing to do anything policy-wise.

So this is the source of Ukraine's frustrations. Give us the weapons, give us the sanctions. Yeah, that's just it. I mean, we know we've chronicled for a decade that defenential Trump has been to Putin. There are these rare flashes of anger, but never any follow through, and there's not a lot to suggest that that will change. Of course, we'll be watching. So talk to us about the state of the conflict, Michael.

Right now, at least, the US is still sharing intel, aid is still going. That would be significant if that were ever to change. But what is Ukraine getting from Europe right now? How are they able to hold up under this new Russian onslaught? So if you strip away all the noise and the rhetoric and the tweets or true social posts, what is happening right now is not as catastrophic as it may seem. The United States is currently selling weapons to Ukraine directly, but most important of all, Jonathan, we are allowing third-party transfers of some of the most important platforms

and ammunition that the Ukrainians require. They need three things that only the United States can source. Long-range air defense, such as the Patriot missile, rocket artillery, such as Atacams and Gimlers, which are the ammunition used by High Mars, and howitzer ammunition, 155-millimeter shells. We're not donating anything to the Ukrainians. We are allowing third- allies such as Germany to transfer weapons systems and ammunition that they have purchased from the United States to the Ukrainians. The Germans, for instance, just sent 100 Pact 2 Patriot missiles plus 125, I think, gimlers to Ukraine. As long as that continues, and the Europeans now suddenly they've got religion

in the sense that they realize Donald Trump is not on board with their 30-day ceasefire, is not willing to sing from the same hymn sheet as they with respect to punishing Russia. Now they're realizing all they need to do is buy stuff from the United States and transfer it to the Ukrainians. So the thing to watch here in terms of Donald Trump's deference or fealty to Putin, if he puts an end to the end user authorization for these weapons systems, in other words, if he tells the Europeans,

you can buy from us, but don't be transferring any of this stuff to Ukraine. That is the death knell. That is the full scale abandonment of Ukraine by the United States. That happens, game over. And Michael, it's Ali Vitale here in Washington. You can sort of see the Europeans and the Ukrainians

preparing for any eventuality, including that one, as they hew much more closely to each other. The Europeans, for example, putting in place their own new sanctions package just a few days ago, not willing to wait on Washington. But can you talk about where you think this ends up if the U.S. ultimately does pull out of its role in negotiations? We've seen the administration say, OK, we're leaving sanctions off the table just for now because we want to keep the line of communications

open. Do you think that Russia would pull away if those sanctions were in place? But also, what does it look like not to have the US as a negotiating partner in this? Well, it's very interesting.

If you look at sort of the Russian information campaign, influence campaigns, what they're trying to do now is they're attacking, mercilessly attacking the Europeans, because they understand that if Europe is responsible for sustaining this war, it can actually do quite a lot on its own. The good news here is when we talk about who time is on which party's side, right now, as of today, what Ukraine needs for

its own defense capability, it's about 40% is domestically sourced, including and especially these innovative drones that they're manufacturing at scale, both seaborne drones, aerial drones. There's a 25 kilometer buffer zone across the entire contact line, about a thousand miles, which is a sort of no man's land of drones. This is why neither side can break through. So 40% Ukraine makes at home. The other 60% is about evenly split between the US. We provide 30 and the Europeans provide 30.

The more time goes by, the more Europe will be able to procure weapons and provide the Ukrainians more of what they need. So this is the reason I think you see this kind of kabuki theater or this fandango with Zelensky and the Europeans trying to keep Trump seized of the moment, if you like, or on board, because they do need the United States to continue to provide, as I've said before, these long-range air defense systems, rocket artillery, and ammunition. But the more time goes by, the more Europe will be able to step up, and the United States won't be as vital an ally as it is today.

Editor for the Insider, Michael Weiss. Michael, thank you for starting us off this morning. We really appreciate it. We'll have more on the war in Ukraine later in the show. Returning now elsewhere, a US citizen has been charged after investigators say he planned to firebomb a branch of the American embassy in Tel Aviv, Israel.

Joseph Neumeyer, a dual US and German citizen, was deported from Israel to New York City over the weekend. One week after, officials say, he approached the building with a backpack full of explosives. Neumeyer allegedly fought with security guard and then tried to run away. He dropped his backpack as he fled, which the Justice Department says contain, quote, three rudimentary improvised incendiary devices commonly known as Molotov cocktails.

Neumeyer had made several threatening messages on social media before the incident, including one post that read, Deaths through America. He also made posts threatening President Donald Trump. If convicted, Neumeyer faces up to 20 years in prison. Joining us now, NBC News international correspondent Matt Bradley live in Tel Aviv. Matt, good to see you. We should note the main US embassy in Jerusalem,

not in Tel Aviv. This is still an outpost of that. It comes, of course, at a time where here in the United States, we have the killing of those two Israeli embassy employees here in Washington just a few days ago, obviously heightened tensions, both here in the US and there in the Middle East, of course, of what's going on in Gaza. What's the latest about this investigation?

Yeah, I mean, as you mentioned, Jonathan, you know, it's interesting. This embassy building behind me that was the subject to this attempted arson just last week, it was the US embassy to Israel up until 2018 when Donald Trump changed it to Jerusalem. And now as you can see the lettering underneath, we're calling it the branch office now. So this isn't the official embassy. But this was where Jonathan Neumeyer, as you mentioned,

he approached guards here about a week ago. He spat on one of them and they tried to detain him. They tried to grab him. But in that kind of altercation, he dropped his bag as knapsack. And that contained, according to Israeli police, ingredients for what looked like molotov cocktails, three of them that he could have used to try to attack the US Embassy. As you can see behind me, a bunch of molotov cocktails probably wouldn't have done all that much damage. But he had said on social media earlier that day,

May 19th, that he was going to burn down the U.S. Embassy and invited others to come and participate. He had been here in Israel for the past month. And as you mentioned, he just had his day in court yesterday. He appeared before a judge in Brooklyn. He was detained by the FBI at JFK International Airport after having been deported from here in Israel following his arrest for this attempted violent crime. And then when you looked into social media posts, man, he just has more and more things

to say. Wants to say death to Americans. He used a, well, a swear word to describe the West, the F word to say the West, and he wanted to talk about killing President Donald Trump. We don't know what his ideology was, but of course all of this comes after the twin assassinations of that couple who worked for the Israeli embassy in Washington. So all of the speculation and all of the focus on that nexus between the U.S. and Israel and diplomacy and whether or not this character, Jonathan Neumeyer, this 28-year-old young man who is now in custody and is now facing some pretty serious charges

that could land him a maximum of 20 years in jail, whether or not he's part of this sort of anti-Israel effort that we've been seeing that might have contributed that well very clearly contributed to those twin assassinations of those Israeli embassy officials or whether or not there's something else going on because his social media is pretty all around them all across the board there was one that I saw on his Instagram that showed an Israeli flag and said that he was standing with Israel. So it's unclear exactly what he was targeting, what he was thinking, or whether or not he was thinking much at all, to be honest.

But now he's in custody and facing these very serious charges. Meanwhile, I spoke with Kristi Noem, who was dispatched after that killing, that assassination last week. She went to the Western Wall in Jerusalem last night after President Donald Trump very hastily sent her here to the Holy Land. She prayed and then I got the chance to kind of put my microphone in her face and ask her a few questions, namely about why she was there. Here's what she said. Madam Secretary, are you here to try to heal the growing rift between the Trump administration and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu?

I'm here to meet with the prime minister and visit with him about specific security concerns and what the United States can do to continue to support Israel and their security at the present time they are facing. Are you going to be asking him about bringing more aid into the Gaza Strip? I'm going to be visiting with him quite a bit about several different topics, but also talking about the two lives that were lost in America. It's been a tragic situation and our hearts go out to their families. What about sending immigrants to Libya? What is the latest on that plan?

Is that something? We're here to focus on Israel today. So as I was mentioning, I mentioned already about those two Israeli embassy officials who were killed in Washington last week. At the same time, I was asking her about that growing rift between the Trump administration and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. That is a very interesting development because, of course, when Donald Trump came to power in the United States, there was a lot of enthusiasm here in Israel that he would be totally different

and much more pro-Israeli than President Biden. That hasn't necessarily turned out to be the case, though it looks as though there still is a lot of excitement around President Trump. But President Trump has been going around the Middle East making deals that have been going way past Benjamin Netanyahu. He had that maiden voyage to the Middle East just a couple of weeks ago where he visited Gulf countries but not America's main ally in the Middle East, Israel. He's been speaking to the Iranians about nuclear deals going past Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime

minister, against his wishes. He made a deal with Hamas to release the last living American Israeli soldier in the Gaza Strip that doesn't seem to have included Israel at all. So it looks as though Kristi Noem, while she doesn't really have a foreign policy brief, and she was sent very quickly after the killing of those two Israeli embassy officials, she might have been here in a way as a gesture to try to show that the Trump administration is still very interested in keeping up ties with Benjamin Netanyahu, is America's main ally in the Middle East.

Yeah, it comes at a point, of course, where a lot of questions about the growing distance between Netanyahu and Trump personally. Matlow, let's turn briefly to the situation in Gaza. Israel has stepped up its assaults there, some latest attacks. Tell us what's been happening. Yeah, I mean, this has just been some appalling images that we've been seeing out of the Gaza Strip. At least 30 people were killed in a strike on a school that was housing displaced people. Now, the Israelis said that this strike was targeting what they said was a Hamas command and control center, but we saw images of people being burned alive. Most of those people who were killed, about 18 of them, this according to Gazan health officials, where Hamas is ruling, most of those,

of the 31 that we now have in terms of deaths, 18 of them were children. So we're also seeing this on a daily basis, dozens of people being killed killed sometimes into the hundreds on the regular and we just saw over the past weekend the deaths of 9 people from the family of 9 children from the family of one doctor and the bodies and the injured were taken this is a horrifying story to this woman's hospital where she was working and she as she was on shift dealing with so many many other injuries came in, saw her entire family in body bags

brought into this hospital, a nightmarish situation and one that we're seeing unfortunately, quite regularly coming out of the Gaza Strip. But the big question that we're seeing now on the political level is one of aid. The Israelis just broke their 11 week blockade of the Gaza Strip. And when I'm talking about a blockade,

I'm talking about a complete block. Food, fresh water, fuel, medicine, all of it. None of it was allowed in for 11 weeks. And so that's why aid organizations and advocacy groups were raising alarms, saying that the Gaza Strip, and it's more than 2 million people, were teetering on the edge of famine.

Now we've heard that there are some goods that we're getting in. We have some images of children eating bread, but aid agency says it's not nearly enough. They want the Israelis to open the spigot and let all the aid in hundreds of trucks a day. Jonathan? Simply horrifying stories out of Gaza, seemingly worse by the day. NBC's Matt Bradley live from Tel Aviv. Thank you, Matt. Still ahead here on Morning Joe, we'll bring you the latest in the legal escalation between Harvard University and the Trump administration as a federal judge weighs in on the fight. MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin will join us for more on that.

Plus, the latest from Capitol Hill, as two Republican senators voice real criticisms of the sweeping domestic policy bill passed by House Republicans last week. We'll be right back with that. Live shot there of Reagan National Airport in Washington. Quiet for the moment. That may not last. It's certainly a busy holiday travel weekend.

Let's bring in NBC News meteorologist Michelle Grossman now for the forecast as people are hitting the roads and taking to the skies. Michelle, how's it looking? Good morning, Jonathan. Well, we're looking at a holiday washout throughout portions of the South, especially the Southern Plains into the Mid-South. And we're looking at storms earlyout throughout portions of the South, especially the Southern Plains into the Mid-South. Then we're looking at storms early this morning with a lightning,

seeing the lightning, hearing the thunder as well. Radar showing us where those storms are happening. Lots of lightning throughout Oklahoma, Texas into Arkansas, also Louisiana. You can see those orange boxes. Those are severe thunderstorm warnings. And we also have tornado warnings this morning. So really active. And we're going to watch this all throughout this Memorial Day.

Now in terms of travel, we're looking at those trouble spots in the South. The Southern Plains with flash flooding, we're gonna look at excessive rainfall, also the severe storms continuing throughout the day. The Southeast, you could see some spotty thunderstorms looking good in the Northeast, mostly sunny skies, mild temperatures, still a little below average

in some spots, but better than it was over the weekend. And in the West, we're looking at a mixture of sun and clouds. So in terms of the airports, likely spots being in Oklahoma City, in Dallas for travel delays, possible impacts in Denver, Kansas City, Nashville, Atlanta, Orlando, also Miami. And we are looking at 9 million people under the risk for severe storms as we go throughout the afternoon hours, especially large hail. That's one of the threats. In addition to some damaging wind gusts,

could see a tornado or chill. Where you see the yellow, those are the likeliest spots. Jonathan, we're looking at places like Dallas, also Bryan, and into San Angelo. Back to you. All right, safe travels to all. Michelle Grossman, thank you so much. Back to the news now.

A federal judge has blocked the Trump administration from revoking Harvard University's ability to enroll or keep its international students. The ruling comes after the Department of Homeland Security terminated the university's international student certification last Thursday. That move barred the school from not only admitting international students, it also ordered current foreign-born students to transfer or they would lose their legal status. Harvard sued the Trump administration on Friday, arguing the effort to block foreign students from enrollment violates

the university's First Amendment rights and would dramatically alter its ability to operate. The president responded on social media over the weekend, claiming that 31% of Harvard students are international, while demanding to know the names of those students and the countries they're from. Trump then followed up those comments when he spoke to reporters last night. Now, a lot of the foreign students we wouldn't have a problem with. I'm not going to have a problem with foreign students, but it shouldn't be 31%. It's too much because we have Americans that want to go there and to other places and they

can't go there because you have 31% foreign. Now no foreign government contributes money to Harvard. We do. So why are they doing so many? The number of foreign students at Harvard, actually 27 percent of its total enrollment. Let's bring in now MSNBC legal correspondent and former litigator Lisa Rubin. Good morning, Lisa. Thank you for joining us. So let's let's walk through this. An unprecedented action taken by the Trump administration

to try to block Harvard, having any international students. What do you make of their legal standing? At least one judge went so far to say, is no, you simply can't do that. Yeah, and the judge didn't explain her rationale, Jonathan, on Friday, in part because she was acting in response to an immediate emergency request from Harvard to reinstate its status under the federal program that allows it and

other universities to enroll foreign students. However, we're going to see a conference tomorrow in this case and a preliminary injunction hearing on Thursday to move that rapidly. In a case like this is a signal that the administration's escalation of its war against Harvard is having real impact on the university. Because as you'll remember, this is not the first rodeo that Harvard has had with this administration. They've seen the cutoff of federal funding for alleged violations of Title VI. That's the federal statute that covers discrimination and higher education. They've had an EEOC investigation begun against it based on alleged discrimination and hiring. They've even seen an investigation start with respect to the

practices of the Harvard Law Review and who gets to be an editor on that law review, with charges being that people were given sort of a plus in the admissions process for being a member of an underrepresented minority. So this is just the latest in a war against Harvard. And we're going to find out later this week how much a federal judge is willing to credit the administration's First Amendment argument that they are being retaliated against for exercising their First Amendment rights and for standing up to the administration in those other contexts that I mentioned.

Lisa, that's certainly going to have a large impact on other educational institutions that we've seen the Trump administration targeting. So a lot of eyes continuing to look at Harvard. But the other thing that you and I have often talked about is the ongoing push from the administration against various law firms and the chilling effect that courts and others in the legal profession fear it could have on people just being able to get representation. There was another win for the firms just in the last few days before the weekend, Jenner and Block, specifically a judge ruling that efforts to target them were unconstitutional.

It comes after a judge ruled something similar for Perkins-Cooey. Can you talk a little bit about what's happening in this space and the courts doing the work of pushing back on behalf of the larger legal profession here? Yeah, so Ali, with respect to the pushback, I also want to note that in addition to those actions that you just mentioned from courts, you're starting to see some pushback from within the firms as well. On Friday afternoon, or I'm sorry, over the weekend, we learned that a number of partners at a law firm that was among the first to settle, Paul Weiss, a number of them are leaving that law firm to start their own firm. And many of them are among the most successful, prominent lawyers in that firm. To have lawyers of that prestige leave that firm is a signal to others,

you don't have to tolerate this. There are other options available to you. And it's the clearest signal we've seen yet that people from within these law firms are saying to themselves, hey, wait a second, we can represent who we'd like to represent, not just who you, the administration, tells us we can. The New York Times also documenting over the weekend how a number of law firms that have settled with the administration are getting incoming calls from people who demand to be represented by them. Why?

Because their understanding is that the law firms have committed to the administration to representing people like veterans or folks fighting anti-Semitism and now they feel entitled to representation from those firms as well. MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin. Lisa, thank you so much. You can also check out Lisa's show, Can They Do That? on MSNBC's YouTube channel. To Capitol Hill now, two Republican senators are leaning into their criticism of the sweeping domestic policy bill narrowly passed by House Republicans last week. Senators Ron Johnson and Rand Paul

are warning about the impact that legislation could have on the national budget. We have witnessed an unprecedented level of increased spending, 58% since 2019, other than World War II. This is our only chance to reset that to a reasonable pre-pandemic level of spending. And again, I think you can do it, and the spending that we would eliminate, people wouldn't

even notice. But you have to do the work, which takes time. How many other Republican senators do you think share your concerns and are willing to make work to make major changes to this bill? I think we have enough to stop the process until the president gets serious about the spending reduction and reducing the deficit. I support spending cuts. I think the cuts currently in the bill are wimpy and anemic, but I still would support

the bill even with wimpy and anemic cuts if they weren't going to explode the debt. The problem is the math doesn't add up. Somebody has to stand up and yell, the emperor has no clothes, and everybody's falling in lockstep on this, pass the big, beautiful bill, don't question anything. Well, conservatives do need to stand up and have their voice heard. This is a problem we've been facing for decades now. And if we don't stand up on it, I really fear the direction the country is going.

OK, this— So, Ali Vittali, this bill barely got it through the House. And now there's some real opposition in the Senate. We just heard from Johnson and Paul there. They think it's not cutting enough. Others have expressed concerns, other Republicans even, about where they're cutting, the programs they might touch. President Trump over the weekend suggested he was fine with the senators making some

changes to it, but he didn't get into any sort of specifics. What's the latest you're hearing there? What is the future of this bill as you talk to your sources on Capitol Hill? It was always gonna be a rocky road, but it's telling that Johnson was able to do what he was able to do. And I think it actually casts this process

in a new light for those of us who watch Capitol Hill as closely as I and you and others do. This idea that it's usually a Senate, Republican-driven process, or at least that's what senators, I think, were expecting to happen here. But the more times that Speaker Mike Johnson can come and pull a rabbit out of his legislative hat within his own conference, the more that Senate Republicans have to take seriously that the dynamics on the House side are the ones that really run the show here.

And so, yes, senators are talking about making changes. When you hear Ron John and Rand Paul there talking about the fact that there might be enough Republican senators to gum up this process, that means he's talking to...

That means he's speaking about seven, at least seven, Republican senators who, at least for now, want to pump the brakes. That's time that's built in. If you look at Leader Thune, for example, saying that this

is a July 4th victory that they're trying to notch, okay, they've got a few weeks now to play with it, but they really can't make that many changes and be able to send it back to the House successfully. And so I think that's what

we're going to be watching to see. Okay, maybe they want to make some changes to the way that Medicaid is dealt with. Maybe they want to make some changes on the SALT, the state and local tax deductions.

But even just both of those things would lose Johnson, key Republicans on the House side, and that's where the entire process starts to get off the rails, because you're constantly doing the balancing act.

And, yes, senators are doing their own, but ultimately, this thing has to make it back to the House and pass. And that's why Johnson has a lot of leverage here. And that's why I think the way that this has been done, Johnson continuing to show the power that he has over his conference with a big helping hand from the president. You and I have talked about that a lot.

It really does change the way that senators can manipulate this bill and make their own changes to it, though certainly they will. Lots of twists and turns ahead. We of course will be following it every step of the way. Coming up here, we'll turn to sports for a bit. MSNBC contributor Pablo Torre, there he is, is here to talk about the stunning comeback by the New York Knicks last night in the Eastern Conference Finals. I guess we'll get into that next.

We'll be right back. The top Fibonaut has leaned on all year, has not been great in the playoffs. In fact, it's been the worst five-day in line-up in the league in the playoffs. Bridges double-counds, cutting, and Jack hammers. And New York's got the lead. What a comeback. Carl Anthony Towns led the Knicks back from a 20-point first-half deficit against the Indiana Pacers last night To keep New York out of a 3-0 hole in the Eastern Conference finals The Knicks were trailing by 16 midway through the third quarter and we're still down 10 entering the fourth, but the Towns Let's be clear. Give him credit. He was terrific down the stretch

He scored 20 of his 24 points in that final period. Jalen Brunson wasn't great He was limited out by with 5,000 for three quarters, but he still helped close it out down the end. New York's third straight road win, finishing with 23 points in the 106 to 100 victory. Now, the Knicks do still trail in this series, two games to one, with game four set for tomorrow night in Indianapolis.

Tonight, the Minnesota Timberwolves host the Oklahoma City Thunder in game four of the Western Conference Finals. Thunder really blew out, were blown out by the T-wolves in game three. We'll see if that was a aberration or something real. That's series two one OKC. Joining us now, the host of Pablo Torre

Finds Out on MetalArk Media, MSNBC contributor Pablo Torre. So Pablo, let's start with the Knicks. And hold on. I'm going to say at least some Knick fans gave up. I have the receipts in my text messages. In the first game one was so devastating. The blown lead. And that was bad.

Game two, they just were not great. They were throttled. Arguably worse. Yeah, game two at home. And then they were down big and down big late last night. But give the Knicks credit, they showed this fight last round against the Celtics with a couple of comeback wins. And despite their doubting fans, they did so again last night.

Look, the Apostles had their doubts. They did. You know, it's a journey. I wanted to just hold up the cover, the front cover of the post today because Chokes on them just feels like one of those headlines where it's like they might have used that either way, but they got to put Townes as like the victor in this because he had 20 in the fourth quarter. But John, this is a series, this is a team over the last two series now that has been deeply antithetical to your lifestyle and lately mine because they make you watch the whole thing. So they make you stay up

late. This is the third 20 point comeback in the last month. And this game, you're right. I have friends who I will not name in my phone who fired Tom Thibodeau at halftime. Didn't adjust his worst coaching performance, but you get bailed out because on some level this is a team and again it's hard not to be the guy spouting cliches about not giving up and grit and all of this but they are a look these Knicks are in the underdog position now which is a comfort zone and right now they're feisty. They're feisty. You poke them, they're going to bite your back. And they did that in the fourth quarter.

And it's pretty remarkable. I also think there's an argument to be made. They're more comfortable on the road. There's a lot of MSG was for all the talk we give it rightly about what a special place it is. There's a lot of pressure that goes along with that and seeing the celebrities courtside all that. And they have struggled at MSG at times during these playoffs.

So let's dive in a little more. Game four tomorrow night. Yeah. I think Towns is the key figure here because if he's good, the Knicks do have some advantages up front in terms of size. The Pacers are not a big team. If he and Robinson can control the offensive glass and create second chance opportunities, the Knicks have a shot here.

I do think, though, they probably need to win tomorrow night. That's tall order. It's, again, it's a road game. Because it's difficult to see them winning three straight if they fall behind 3-1. Yeah, so the whole question of who enjoys the pressure more. We've seen the Pacers all year quietly. We just got introduced to them nationally in this series.

But they actually have thrived in clutch time, undefeated on the season. I'm with you that the Knicks under pressure. The Pacers would be the one team where I'm like, I don't want to see the Knicks in a game seven situation. Neesmith getting hurt last night feels like, again, the War of Attrition setting in. Ken Jalen Brunson, who again, people,

I'm just saying sources close to the situation, are like, he's small. He's six foot one. He's tired, he's beaten up, he plays a zillion minutes because of Tom Thibodeau, their coach. Can he hold up? I would like to see him get something resembling a break if we're going to look ahead to the NBA finals because as you alluded to, that is the real, I don't know how you beat the team coming out of the West. Yeah.

Yeah. And there's only just one day off the rest of the way. There's not much time to recover. And then, yeah, we'll see about that Thunder T-Wolf series. Yeah, Thunder looks so good those first two games. Minnesota thumped them that maybe that's just a one off at home. Maybe they figured something out. We will figure it out. But they're both series have featured some comebacks.

A man who knows a thing or two about comebacks, Bill Belichick, of course. Remember, he was the head coach of that 28-3 Super Bowl comeback. Well he's in the news for other reasons of late and Pablo you've been following the drama following the 70 surrounding the 73 year old coach and his 24 year old girlfriend Jordan Hudson. The Saga took another turn this weekend when Hudson disputed some of your recent reporting. What can you tell us? Yeah, my show, Poblatory Finds Out, John, I just want to say this for my mom and everybody who respects me.

We do really serious journalism. You do. We investigate soccer team partnerships with Vladimir Putin. We look at migrant crises. We look at death row. We also have turned me into the Robert Caro of Jordan Hudson and Bill Belichick. And so Jordan Hudson, who is in control of Bill Belichick's empire, his public life now,

she went on Instagram and basically accused me of defaming her, of being targeted in my reporting, being unfair. She notably deleted the Instagram story very quickly after, which I think is bizarrely appropriate, but all of this centers around an artifact, John, that I know you have some familiarity with, but I want to introduce everybody to it by virtue of another man that you recall, John, Tom Brady, during his roast on Netflix last year.

Everybody asks me which ring is my favorite. I used to say the next one. But now that I'm retired, my favorite ring is the camera that coach Belichick slinking out of that poor girl's house at 6 a.m. a few months ago. So this ring camera, for those not familiar, you are familiar.

Sadly and deeply familiar. Just the deep exhale of familiarity. This is what it was. It appeared on the Internet in late 2023. You are seeing there of course a very topless, a bountiful Bill Belichick, I dare say. He's clearly been working out. I mean, the barrel chest is fully in bloom and he is stumbling down this mysterious porch in what was alleged to be Massachusetts. By the way, we found another video. This is him, this is exclusive to us. He has a satchel, John.

We're getting to the bottom of this. No shirt, but a satchel. He has a satchel, and the question was, where is this video from? Bill Belichick at age 70 showing up, just shirtless, randomly on a security camera. What is this? Jordan Hudson was alleged to be, of course, deeply involved.

This was allegedly her house. I can report exclusively now because I went on a field trip, a reporting trip, that it was something a little different if we play that video. So that is me. Oh, your humble correspondent on that porch. Because it turns out that porch belongs to an Airbnb, not Jordan Hudson, in Winthrop, Massachusetts, John. Are you familiar with the town of Winthrop, a seaside town

with an Airbnb of about 700 square feet? In the episode, we explain this video and its origin story helps explain a bit of what NFL teams were concerned about with Bill Balachek when he did not get jobs beyond the Patriots. And it kind of does originate with this random apartment that belongs to a couple that I interviewed on the record, that belongs to now, that I interviewed on the record that belongs to now.

Yeah, my dreams and nightmares actually. So this is a great tease for your episode. People will need to figure out. Look, Winthrop's a lot. Winthrop's a lovely town. Not Nantucket though. Not Nantucket. Not what you might think. I'm going to keep thinking about Bill Belichick as the head coach of the Patriots that led to that Super Bowl. How about him as a fisherman catching a mermaid? Less here of Bill Belichick as the fisherman. I mean, if they're in love, God bless them.

This is a story though about power and control and who wields it and the highest paid public employee in the state of North Carolina who happens to have been at Airbnb that I also stayed at, by the way, five stars. There we go. Really enjoyed it. We will tune into your latest episode of your podcast to learn more. MSNBC contributor, Pablo Torre, thank you as always. Still ahead here.

We'll take a breath and then we'll take a look at the efforts to govern artificial intelligence as our next guest warns that the company behind chat GPT could be a threat to democracy. The author of Empire of AI, Dreams and Nightmares in Sam Altman's Open AI, he'll join us ahead right here on Morning Joe. Welcome back to Morning Joe. National parks are expected to see even bigger crowds this summer, but they're having to scale back services amid a series of firings, resignations, and delays in seasonal hirings. NBC News correspondent Morgan Chesky has the details.

Our nation's parks promising pristine views, taking changes in stride amid a busy summer season. Outside Zion National Park, visitors found bumper to bumper traffic already backing up area roads. There's definitely a million people going to Zion today. Now as summer heats up, multiple parks sharing changes. At Yosemite, visitors arriving between 6 a.m. and 2 p.m. will need reservations for entry, and many are filling up fast. In Tennessee, 12 million visitors converged last year on Great Smoky Mountains National Park.

This year, six of ten campgrounds are closed until further notice. At Utah's arches, reduced staff means fewer trash cans and picnic tables. The change, similar to New Mexico's Carlsbad Caverns, or Ranger Cave tours, are suspended. There's certainly been a roller coaster. Lee Zimmerman, who runs three lodges that all serve Yosemite, says bookings haven't been this low since the pandemic. If this doesn't pick up, where does that put you?

It puts us in a really difficult situation. So if you don't get the traffic when you need it, it creates a pretty dire financial situation. He tells us fears over park cuts plus economic uncertainty have hurt his business, adding the fraught political climate has cut down on international visitors to still as we await holiday weekend numbers out of Yosemite, early reports suggest things rent smoothly, still offering the magic of a National Park getaway.

Maybe it won't be in the same numbers we're used to, but we weathered plenty of storms in our 25 years plus in the National Park, so we'll weather this one as well.