Morning Joe - Morning Joe 5/30/23

Episode Date: May 30, 2023

White House and Republicans reach tentative debt ceiling deal

I do want to thank the president's team that he put together. Very professional, very smart, very strong beliefs that are different than ours. And I think at the end of the day, people can look together to be able to pass this in the House and the Senate together to sign it and send it to the president. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy expressing praise for White House officials in the wake of a debt deal. We'll have the latest on where support stands from members of both parties as leaders try to secure their votes. Plus, President Biden and former President Trump mark Memorial Day with very different messages. Meanwhile, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis makes a pitch to voters ahead of the first event of his presidential campaign. We'll show you what he said. Also ahead, we are following a developing story out of Moscow this morning. Drones attacking residential areas for the first time since Russia invaded Ukraine. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Tuesday, May 30th. Along with Joe,

Willie and me, we have the host of Wait to Early White House Beer Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, U.S. special correspondent for BBC News, Katty Kaye is with us and Pulitzer Prize winning columnist and associate editor of The Washington Post, Eugene Robinson. And Joe, on the debt ceiling, you said they'd get there, but how'd they finally do it? They had no choice. They got there. And, you know, we live in this world that's designed, this political world that's designed to promote discord, division, hatred, where our political opponents are actually our sworn

enemy. And I do know that there are far too many people who want to want to set aside Democratic elections. We saw it happen on January the 6th. There there is much to mourn about the direction that some have decided to take this country in. But but you look, Willie, and you see that you actually have in Joe Biden and here, Kevin McCarthy, but you have a Democratic president and Republican Senate and now House that have worked together in pretty historic ways over the past year and a half getting bipartisan legislation. And let's look at Kevin McCarthy really quickly here. This is Kevin McCarthy, who many, many said for quite some time, for good reason, were concerned that he was going to go sideways on supporting freedom fighters in Ukraine. We heard him shut down that Russian reporter said, get out of their country, stop killing their children, stop committing war crimes.

And here, you know, the nation's economy was on the line. And, you know, he behaved responsibly. Biden behaved responsibly. They were grownups. And so, again, we should worry about things that we should worry about. But there are days we should wake up and say, you know what? Things are getting done. And it's not always quite as bleak and catastrophic as people who get paid a lot of money to say it is on whether it's cable shows or online or in podcasts or in political speeches or in books. Sometimes grownups are actually in charge in Washington, D.C., and things get done. Yeah, this is a serious moment that required seriousness from its politicians. And so far, anyway, from the leadership, we've gotten that from the president.

Speaker McCarthy yesterday, after announcing the deal a couple of days ago, went out of his way to thank the president's team for their professionalism and for the way they conducted themselves during the negotiation. So there are still votes to count here. They're going to have to cobble it together, but they have to get to 218. It looks like they will. But Jonathan Lemire, obviously, as Joe said, the usual suspects are throwing their bombs and sending their tweets and everything else about Kevin McCarthy having abandoned the Freedom Caucus with this deal and saying this is the end of civilization and et cetera, et cetera. But it does look like I say this a little bit hesitantly because we don't know where it's headed, in the next 24 hours or 36 hours that they will get to 218 to get this thing passed. Yeah, the House starts bringing it up today. Vote tentatively slated for tomorrow. We're not quite

sure when the Senate will take it up, probably the day or two after that. Whip operations in both parties feel pretty confident that they'll get there. To your point, yes, there are extremists on the right who have made it very clear they want nothing to do with this, and they're throwing bombs left and right on Twitter. Press conferences saying this is a disaster of a deal. It's a Democratic blank check was among the rhetoric used. I believe also turd sandwich was tossed about. And we've got some progressives on the left who are also expressing some concern, saying that they don't like this bill either. But the White House sort of expected that would be the case. But they do feel like a major group of centrist Democrats

yesterday, nearly 100 of them, came out and said they like this bill. They're going to support it. They feel like they'll get there. And it is a moment of bipartisanship. Biden and McCarthy really had no relationship going into this, but they've been able to work together. And it's another moment here where President Biden, who said said my whole agenda is going to be trying to work across the aisle, even in this polarized time, he's been able to pull it off a number of occasions. Yeah. I mean, Joe, you have some senators, people that you could predict saying that some Republican senators acting like they've never negotiated in Washington before saying I won't vote against it because I didn't get every single last thing that I wanted. And,

you know, going on their podcast and talking about that. But, you know, having been up on the Hill for many years that sometimes you take what you can get, you give what you can get and you make a deal to help the country pay its bills. Yeah, exactly. I mean, and I've been a backbencher and my hair has been on fire. And, yeah, the republic's falling if we do this or that or the other. But, you know, after remember, after being up there for about six months, I turned to a friend of mine who was in the freshman class. You know, it's funny. We keep saying the world's going to come to an end if this bill passes or that we're still here, aren't we? At some point, they just aren't going to believe us anymore. So maybe maybe we should stop throwing bombs. I got to say, Lemire talked about throwing bombs, Willie.

Uh-oh. I saw some bomb throwing last night. I mean, man, I mean, the Celtics could not put one in last night. You talk about being grownups and responsible and getting the job done. That would be the Nuggets, Willie. That would be the Nuggets. Yeah, the Nuggets were waiting for this one. The Celtics were on the doorstep of history.

They get what they wanted after being down 3-0 in the Eastern Conference Finals. They evened it at 3-3, and they get a home game in Boston, a Game 7, absolutely nutty atmosphere. The crowd was bananas waiting for them to do their thing, and they just never did it. In fairness, Lemire, clearly Tatum's ankle wasn't good. He rolled it in the first minute in the game. But otherwise, how do you not show up for a game seven? They lost by 19 points last night. Yeah, first we'll start by giving credit to the Miami Heat. This is a smart, tough, really well-coached team. A team that, losing three straight, having blown a 3-0 series lead, they could have collapsed last night. Instead, they didn't. They played really, really well coached team, a team that losing three straight, having blown a 3-0 series lead, they could have collapsed last night. Instead, they didn't.

They played really, really well. It was the Celtics who collapsed. Yes, Tatum got hurt in the game's first minute. That definitely changed things. Celtics also missed their first 11 three-pointers. They couldn't hit a shot all night. And what was more upsetting as a Celtics fan is that their defensive intensity also went away.

They gave up easy shots to the Heat, particularly in the second half. Every time the Celtics tried to make a little run, they couldn't do it. And they missed a chance to make history. There were 2,004 Red Sox in the building last night. It didn't matter. The Celtics really collapsed. And I suspect there'll be some real changes for that team going into next season. And now Miami Heat, Denver Nuggets, and the Miami Heat, only the second number eight seed ever to make the finals. Yeah, and Joe, it was one of those games where you're waiting for it to swing. You know, the Heat were in control the whole way, and you go, okay, second half,

the crowd is still in it, Boston's going to make a run. They just never did, and the Heat ran away from them to go to the NBA finals. Well, you know, they kept making runs. In the third quarter, there were several times where you had making, they kept making runs in the third quarter. There were several times where you had the heat, I'd say the nuggets. I'm already thinking about the, the, the, the finals, but, but you know, the heat were up by 13, 14 Celtics knocked it down to nine, eight, seven. That happened quite a few times. You said, okay, this is where the Celtics are going to make their run. Gene, they just never made their run.

They never got there. So now we have a Miami Heat-Denver Nuggets final. Wondering just how many viewers. I think maybe Succession will have more viewers. The final of Succession. To that NBA final. This is probably not the final that the league wanted. I think the league would have preferred, say, Boston, L.A.

That would have been a final they would have loved. However, they didn't get it because, you know, the Celtics, this is a frustrating team. That team has so much talent. They're so talented. And the dynamic duo of Tatum and Jalen Brown, I mean, they, at their best, at their finest, they remind me of Jordan and Pippen. I mean, they are really, really good, yet they don't play together very well. They, you know, and they played with no brain and no spirit for most of that game.

I mean, Derek White was the most aggressive and he was the most kind of into the game. I just don't get that team, the Celtics team, with all that talent, much more than the Heat had. They actually, you know, the Heat actually, I mean, they lost three in a row, but that third game, the one that Derek White won with that tip-in at the last two-tenths of a second, the Heat

actually almost won that game, right? They came back right at the end, and they had him, and they just didn't box out White on that tip. And so they actually had a bit of momentum coming into this game seven. But the Celtics, you know, they had their home crowd in the garden on the parquet floor. I'm sorry.

That was just pathetic. It was pathetic. Yeah. You know, that that's exactly what Katty Kay had said. I mean, she called me. I said they didn't box out white. They didn't box out. What in the world happened, Katty Kay had said. I mean, she called me. I said they didn't box out white. They didn't box out. What in the world happened, Katty, really quickly?

We do need to just before we move on, we'll quickly congratulate you on Man City once again winning the Premier League. OK. Yeah. And actually, I think next weekend we're going to go and see Man City Man U at Wembley. That's a secret, by the way. I'm going to get tickets for my husband. I haven't told him yet. So I guess it's not a secret anymore.

But that's what we're planning to do. But, yeah, I agree what Gene said. That was the smart take. What Gene said. All right. Let's get to President Joe Biden, who honored the country's fallen troops yesterday by visiting the tomb of the unknown soldier at Arlington National Cemetery. In his Memorial Day message, the president spoke about preserving the legacy of those who died to protect democracy and his

own personal experience with losing a child. Tomorrow marks eight years since we lost our son, Bo. Our losses are not the same. He didn't perish in the battlefield. It was cancer that stole him from us a year after being deployed. As if I can still hear him saying, Dad, it's my duty, Dad. It's my duty. Duty. That was the code my son lived by and all those you lost lived by. Today, we once again gather in this sacred place at this solemn hour to honor fallen heroes, those who died so our nation might live. Meanwhile, President Biden's most likely 2024 opponent, Donald Trump, had a less reflective Memorial Day message on his social media website. The former president compared himself himself to the

country's fallen heroes, wishing a happy Memorial Day to quote those in line of a very different but equally dangerous fire, stopping the threats of terrorists, misfits and lunatic thugs who are working feverishly from within to overturn and destroy our once great country. It's brutal, Joe. I mean, I don't even know what to say. I guess it's a step up from what he said in the past about our fallen heroes. Well, I mean, what he said in the past, I mean, you look at the Atlantic article back in 2020, where he basically called men and women who gave their all suckers. And it's always been his attitude about it. He has contempt for those who would sacrifice for their country. And Willie, I mean, this is again, we're not surprised by what Donald Trump says. I will say I'm surprised that there's still such a large number of Americans,

at least telling pollsters that they would still support this man who, again, whether it's Memorial Day, whether it's Mother's Day, whether it's the 4th of July, whatever it is, he tries to be as hateful and disrespectful as possible. And again, I'm not I'm not catastrophizing here. He just he I'm saying earlier, there were Republicans that were grownups. Most would never do something like this. And yet the person that runs the party right now is the most hateful, has been the most hateful. And even even staying stays like Memorial Day when we should all stay focused on those men and women who gave their all in battle and across the world so we could be free. solemn, heavy day filled with gratitude from people who fought for our freedom in 1776, all the way forward to Iraq and Afghanistan and people who've lost their lives since coming back from the war. That's what we think about. That's what most Americans think about. But,

Katty, you know, when you look at the comments that Joe's talking about in The Atlantic magazine, the post yesterday shouldn't be surprising when you have Donald Trump saying to General John Kelly on Memorial Day 2017, as General Kelly was going to visit the grave of his son, Robert, who was killed in Afghanistan. Donald Trump saying to General Kelly, I don't get it. What was in it for them? Looking at all those headstones, why would they serve in the military? Why would they sacrifice? He doesn't get it. And he did call, and it was confirmed by many sources after that Atlantic peace, soldiers who died in France, American soldiers, losers and suckers. We know everything he said about John McCain. He's shown us how he feels about people who serve the country

and about veterans and everyone else. He can give lip service to it, but we know how he really feels. Yeah, and interesting now that you've got Fox News as well confirming those comments by President Trump, too. You know, I remember having an interesting conversation with somebody I know quite well, a general who'd worked in the military, retired, and who'd actually been pretty conservative, pretty keen on President Trump. And it was when those comments came out that he really decided he'd had enough and that he felt disgusted by what he heard and that that lack of support for U.S. troops just was something he couldn't countenance anymore. And it made him change his mind. And you wonder how many other people in senior positions throughout the military felt that.

But you also know that the former president has quite a lot of support amongst military members. We know that on January the 6th, there were a higher proportion than the average of the population of former security and military members up on the Hill that day. So, you know, it's mixed, the reaction amongst military personnel to President Trump. And partly, I think, the fact that there are people who still support him in the military helps to explain the broader swath of his support across the country. Well, his opponent, his chief opponent, Ron DeSantis, is kind of kicking off his tour, the Florida governor now, calling the Great American Comeback Tour. He'll start today in Iowa. In an interview yesterday on Fox, DeSantis was asked for the rationale for his campaign.

Why is he running? Why should people look at him, take a vote for him over Donald Trump? Here's what he said. Why is right now the time for Ron DeSantis to run for president? Because everyone knows if I'm the nominee, I will beat Biden and I will serve two terms and I will be able to destroy leftism in this country and leave woke ideology on the dustbin of history. So there it is in a nutshell, Joe. He says he can beat Joe Biden, suggesting that Donald Trump can't. He'll serve two terms. Donald Trump can't. He's already served one. And then just on the issues on this, you know, the shining city on a hill the morning in America, it is defeat woke ideology. I mean, Gene Robinson, we're so far from Ronald Reagan

at America is a city shining brightly on the hill for all the world to see, you know, the last great and serious point here, here too because well actually let me play you this clip because this is when i just started thinking you know we used to have a football coach that would say you boys are majoring in minors focus on the big things this is this is what ron desantis is doing he's majoring on the minors on things that may get a small sliver of the population. But it's not like Reagan. Reagan would say things that maybe 50 percent of Americans agreed with, but it's said in a way that 90 percent of Americans would go, yeah, this guy's on to something. Reagan was always trying to reach out. That's maybe why he won 49 states and why Republicans under Donald Trump keep losing election.

But Ron DeSantis, for some weird reason, I don't get it, seems to be following that path. And moments later in that interview, he was asked whether he could win Iowa. This is what he had to say. We obviously have a lot in common with Iowa in terms of what Florida's done and what they've done under Governor Kim Reynolds. And I think the groundswell of support has been really, really strong. And, you know, we're going to press the case. I mean, you know, they had mentioned there may be some differences with me and Donald Trump. And I think that those differences were down to my benefit in a place like Iowa.

I mean, for example, you know, he's taken the side of Disney in our fight down here in Florida. I'm standing for Florida. I'm standing for parents. I'm standing for children. And I think a multibillion dollar company that sexualizes children is not consistent with the values of Florida or the values of a place like Iowa. Disney sexualized. Ron DeSantis decides that he's going to launch his his campaign by talking about how the Magic Kingdom sexualizes children. This is something that, again, we've all grown up with Disney. You and I, Gene, when we were young, we'd see the wonderful world of Disney every Sunday night. It's continued through. And and and, you know, it's not like things got crazy.

My kids growing up, you know, I've seen The Lion King like 87 times. And The Little Mermaid and all of these other shows, it hasn't radically changed or shifted. What's happened is for some reason, this has become this weird sort of cottage industry deal. And I guess maybe people get ratings doing this. Maybe they make money. Maybe people listen to their podcast by bashing Disney. But I can tell you as somebody that knows a little bit about Florida,

this doesn't even sell in Florida. I mean, Disney is loved. But this war... Joe, he got married there. He got married there. It's a happy place. The happiest place on Earth, I think, is what all those quarterbacks from Super Bowl say. Again, Gene, my bigger point is this.

They emphasize these really small things that gin up a small part of the base. Instead of being like Reagan, looking over the horizon and saying, how do I unite Americans? And in the process, win 49 states. Yeah, it's it is incredible. I mean, Joe, you and I, we both spent a lot of time in Iowa. We both know that, you know, you're walking down the street and you you ask voters, you know, what's what's what's on your mind? What are you thinking? Republican voters say that Disney. I hate Disney. I wish somebody would go after Disney. I mean, it's just ridiculous. It's ridiculous. This is the centerpiece of—I can't believe that he

mentions that as part of his argument why he should be the Republican nominee, let alone president of the United States. Again, I don't—this is Ahab-alike, this pursuit of Disney. It can't be a really winning issue for him, I think. But all he's got, apparently, is I'm against woke ideology. And that, yeah, that's going to touch a chord among the base, among the hardcore base. But, boy, that is a tough sell if you want to be president of the United States, because you've got a few more things to worry about other than pronouns. You know, you've got a lot of other stuff to do. Yeah, I mean, Jonathan Lemire, the guy, the guy can talk. He can express himself. He's he's he's intelligent. And yet he always, again, goes down to the lowest common denominator. I'm not

really sure. But, you know, this Andy Woke crusade, you notice Tim Scott. Tim Scott did something, I think, I think pretty smart in his announcement. He never talked about woke. He talked about things he disagreed with that some people might say, oh, well, that's woke. But but all this talk, it's it's at this point, it's ground noise when you go up and woke is Florida's where woke goes to die. Like this is like Donald Trump and like being fat Elvis and like repeating everything that he did in 2016. And and, you know, he's like Elvis in 1977. He's he's repeating the same act over and over again. And again, if you want to be new and you want to be different and you want to take your party in a winning direction, then then don't go to the lowest common denominator. Again, it just doesn't make sense. Or to paraphrase the criticism that was levied against Rudy Giuliani during his

campaign, they're saying this is noun, verb, woke. That's it. It's all it is. And he's talking to us, this small piece of electorate, sort of the Fox News primary. Yeah, maybe right now he'll score some points in Florida. He could score some points among diehard conservatives in some of the early states. But even Disney's not perceived among Republicans as this unambiguous win. There's a lot of Republicans who are like, this is a major business here, a beloved American institution. You just lost a lot of jobs for your state because of this. So he's opened himself up to those sort of attacks, too. And it reinforces some concerns that the donor class has started to have of attacks, too. And it reinforces some concerns that the donor class has started to have about DeSantis. And look, he raised a lot of money in

his first day, no doubt. But that was supposed to be one of his major advantages. He was going to be the palatable Republican to those who were tired of Donald Trump. But he's really boxed himself in in a lot of extreme positions. And now, look, he hits the road today. It begins, Joe and Mika. He makes his first stop out in Iowa. He's going to hit a couple of these early battleground states, his early primary states. And we will see what sort of retail politician he proves to be, because to this point, the reviews have been pretty unfavorable, that he's had trouble connecting with voters, connecting with doters, connecting with supporters. And he's going to have to show that he has the ability to be charismatic, but also to fashion an argument that separates himself for Trump, who right now has definitely

got the better of their matchup. Joe, to your point about majoring in minors, most Americans, the vast majority of Americans hear him say that Disney is sexualizing children and just go, what is he even talking about? What is the story behind? What does that even mean? Most of them were going out to see Disney's The Little Mermaid for, you know, $150 million it made at the box office or whatever it was this weekend. So you have to sort of picture he's running to be president of the United States. If he's standing on a debate stage with Joe Biden and he starts talking about Disney sexualizing young children, does that turn on voters in the suburbs of Atlanta and Philadelphia

in Milwaukee? Is that something that they're concerned about or that they even understand? We'll see. I get it. This is a primary. He's trying to win a primary first, but he's got a lot of stuff, including the six week abortion ban that he's going to have to unwind if he becomes the nominee. And that's going to be very difficult to do. Yeah, it's so crazy. What did we hear repeatedly in the summer of 2022? What we heard was the biggest issues are inflation, jobs, the southern border. You go down the list, gas prices, you know, you go down the list, these these issues, these economic issues. And Republicans said Democrats won't talk about them. And then they go into the 2022 election and they're talking about these issues, again, that a small number of Americans care about. And they get absolutely walloped at the polls in 22.

Mika, listen, I think I don't agree with the conventional wisdom about Ron DeSantis. I think right now he's even money. And I know a lot of people would laugh at that. I think Ron DeSantis right now is even money to be the next Republican nominee for president. I do think that if he learns how to get out of his way, and we're still, you know, nine months off from elections, he could beat Donald Trump because he is so much more competent than Donald Trump. And he's supposed to come without the baggage that Donald Trump has. As he said in his press conference, he doesn't know a whole lot about paying off porn stars. So he can't really answer those type of questions. There could be a great contrast. But here's the deal. If he runs as Trump

he loses. If he runs as a Main Street Republican who is for balanced budgets, a strong military and and and small C conservatism. I think he wins going away and he is a really formidable opponent for Joe Biden in the fall. But saying that Disney sexualizes kids is not going to get you from here to there. That just gets Donald Trump re-nominated. Well, before you get to the cartoon stuff, the Disney stuff, I mean, just stop right there at a six-week abortion ban. I'm not sure how that works. That's a problem.

At all. I'm so glad you reminded me of that. You are right. That is going to be tough in the general election for him to get through. All right. Still ahead on Morning Joe, gunfire erupts along a beach boardwalk in Florida. What we're learning this morning about a Memorial Day shooting that injured nine people. Plus, former GOP Congresswoman Liz Cheney goes after Republicans during a commencement speech at her alma mater. We'll show you her new comments also this morning.

Wanted in Russia. We'll take a look at why Moscow has issued an arrest warrant for Republican Senator Lindsey Graham. And the must read opinion pages, including a new piece on masculinity by David French that got a response from Republican Senator Josh Hawley. You'd be so surprised at what it was. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. Just past half past the hour, police have one person in custody and are looking for more suspects after a shooting that injured nine people yesterday in South Florida. Investigators say it happened around 7 p.m. on the Hollywood Beach boardwalk when a fight broke out and someone pulled out a gun. Five adults and four children were taken to the hospital. The youngest victim, just one year old. Hospital officials say they are all in stable condition. That's remarkable. We'll go live to the scene later in the show.

And the man accused of crashing a box truck into barriers near the White House last week may have intended to seize power and harm the president if necessary. This is according to a memo filed by federal prosecutors. They're looking to keep the suspect behind bars with no conditions while he awaits a potential trial. Prosecutors say the man had a journal that included a coup speech he allegedly planned to give once he took over the government. They also say he was a Nazi supporter. The suspect's defense has not yet filed a response, and it's unclear if he even has legal counsel. The federal public defender's office did not respond to a request for comment. The suspect is due back in federal court today. My God. Yeah. Well, you know, anti-Semitism on the rise. And again, all the hate speech has been mainstream. I'm afraid we're going to see more of this. Just like Katty, we see more shootings by the day, even going to the beach with your family, Memorial Day

night ends in tragedy. Yeah, I mean, kind of a grim weekend, right, to have another reminder of the weaknesses in America at the moment. You've got the shootings and everybody now kind of assuming that and polls showing us this, an increasing fear of gun violence in the country, that you might go to the beach or you might go to a mall or you might go to your synagogue or your church. And the chances are there is a chance that you could be shot. It just it shouldn't be that way. Yeah, no doubt about it. It is. But, but, but Mika, again, it's so important. We were, this is a choice that politicians are making and it's a choice that voters are making by what politicians they put into office. This is going to be, we're going to see,

just as we've seen with abortion, 10 yearyear-old girls fling the state after getting raped. And other politicians talking about young girls being raped by their uncles being a perfect reason why we have to have forced births sanctioned by the state. We saw what an impact that had, a social issue that had helped Republicans in a lot of states. Now, without any doubt, it's just a huge drag on Republican candidates, especially in swing areas. Same thing's happening with guns. The same thing's going to happen with guns. Not supporting the Second Amendment or gun rights, which I have my entire life, my entire public life. But the extremism, supporting, again, supporting just guns, the proliferation of guns on the street without

a universal background check that 90 percent of Americans support, red flag laws that keep guns out of the hands of dangerous, crazy people, which 80, 85 percent of Americans support. And of course, the massive proliferation of military style weapons, assault, military style assault weapons that 18 year old kids can buy on their birthday and then go shoot up schools. We've again, Americans have had enough of this. Yeah. They support the Second Amendment. They do not support the radicalism of these gun laws and just the killing of Americans, whether they're at schools, whether the country music concerts, whether they're in churches, whether they're in synagogues, wherever they are, Americans are tired of it. And as Katty said, the numbers show they're scared and they're fed up. That is going to have an impact on American politics. Coming up on Morning Joe, the latest

out of Ukraine as Russia launches a third attack on Kiev in just 24 hours, damaging buildings and vehicles. This as the Kremlin reports new drone strikes in Moscow. Plus, former FBI Director James Comey is our guest this morning. He's using his insider knowledge of the American legal system for a new project. We'll explain that ahead. We're back in just a moment. Live picture from the top of our building here at 30 Rockefeller Center. Another beautiful morning in New York City. It's 641 here on the East Coast. Some new images out of Kiev this morning show the latest barrage of drones launched by Russia into Ukraine's capital city. At least 20 Iranian-made drones were shot down within Kiev's airspace in Russia's third attack on the city in less than 24 hours. At least one person was killed in this morning's attack

when a high-rise building caught fire. Ukraine reports 29 out of 31 drones were shot down around the country, mostly in that capital region. Meanwhile, Russia also reported being struck by drones this morning. Moscow's mayor said on social media drone attack caused, quote, insignificant damage to several buildings. The Associated Press reports it is the second attack on Moscow itself after Russia claimed Ukraine sent drones at the Kremlin earlier this month. Joining us now, president of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass. Richard, good morning. So if this is accurate, and we always have to take big grains of salt when Moscow reports something, if there were drone attacks inside Moscow, inside the borders of

Russia from Ukraine or some Ukrainian-backed entity, that would mean what? That would mean it's a really bad idea to do it. It's not going to help Ukraine militarily. Doesn't change anything on the battlefield. It seems to justify almost tit for tat the unwarranted Russian attacks on Ukrainian civilian areas. It feeds Vladimir Putin's narrative that Russia is the victim. Russia is facing all of NATO and somehow that everything it's doing is warranted. So who's ever behind this, assuming it's some Ukrainian-related entity, if not the national government? Really, really counterproductive.

That said, I'd like to see the Russians produce some of the pieces of these drones, just so we know for sure where it's coming from. We should note that the New York Times reported a few days ago that U.S. officials do believe that Kremlin attack was carried out by a pro-Ukrainian force, though not, they believe, ordered from Kyiv itself. So let's talk about this moment in the war, though, where we have drone strikes at Kyiv, we have this incident in Moscow. Are these the two sides trying to shape the conflict a little bit here ahead of that Ukrainian counteroffensive that we've been waiting for for quite some time and is believed to be more or less imminent? I see this sort of stuff as more political and psychological,

but none of this affects the battlefield. So it's something of a distraction from the war itself. Also, history suggests that this kind of random civilian attacks or bombing doesn't do anything really but harden the resolve of the people. And that's the kind of reporting we're seeing out of Ukraine. So this makes no sense militarily. I actually don't think it helps any of the parties, I'll be honest with you. Yeah, it just doesn't seem to make sense. So tell me your thoughts about you see the offensive coming. Where are we right now?

What does it look like as far as the spring offensive and the possibility of some sort of negotiations on the other side of that offensive? Well, clearly some sort of a quote unquote offensive is going to happen, Joe. I don't think any of us has a really great understanding of what exactly the dimensions of it are, what the specifics of it are. But let's assume that there's some kind of major military push in the east. I doubt against Crimea early on, some greater use of tanks, potentially even aircraft. I don't see it fundamentally changing the battlefield. I might be in a minority here. So I think for the next six months, this is fought out. I don't think there's any diplomacy. I think the real conversation about diplomacy starts at the, say, November or so. And the question is, OK, we've now had two

fighting seasons, don't have all that much to show for it in terms of regaining territory. What now? Do we want a third fighting season? Now, it also can make a difference, Joe, and it feeds into something you've talked about here a lot, which is what's happening with Republican politics. If Vladimir Putin's looking at all this and says, look, I'm not winning on the battlefield, but depending upon what happens in 2024 in America, I could have someone in the White House who doesn't support this war. It increases his inclination to hold out for at least through one more fighting season to see what what politics can bring if his troops can't deliver it for him. Well, exactly. If Donald Trump does well moving through the 2024 election, he has every reason to hold on because he's got somebody in the White House. He could have somebody in the White House in January 20th, 2025, who actually wants him to win the war. So there's no doubt there's going to be, he will sit, wait and see there. Let me ask you, Richard,

about the New York Times article I saw over the weekend that talked about the use of AI and basically scraping up all the data they could from the Russian public, telegram messages, chat rooms, online traffic. And the Times says that there's reporting that actually Russians are starting to turn against the war, not dramatically, but a growing sense of frustration, especially with the amount of Russians, the number of Russians who have been killed. Well, two reactions to that. One is the use of AI. Obviously, this will be something that will help authoritarian regimes, Joe, in terms of greater visibility into their own population, just something to think about it.

In terms of Russians turning against the war, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a smoldering resentment about the war, given the human loss and the rest. I just don't see where there's anywhere for it to go. Politically, it seems to me Putin's in a pretty safe position. There could be a tipping effect one day that when it changes, it changes. But if I were advising our side, I would simply say, do not in any way assume that there's going to be any break on the Russian side. Assume that Putin's in control, has the narrative going his way. Most Russians buy into it, that it's him against Russia, against NATO. Lots of Russians are sympathetic to the claims on Crimea and so forth. And I just wouldn't depend on any real weakening in Russian resolve.

I'd love to be wrong there, but I would be really surprised. So, Richard, let's talk about the gesturing that keeps going on in China toward the United States. Now, they're saying they don't want to meet with Secretary of Defense Austin. Obviously, they were going to she was going to meet with Blinken before the spy balloon was shot down. But the gesturing, it seems, just just continues with China. What are they trying to prove? How do we how do we break the ice on this? Again, they were truly unhappy or angry, whatever word you want to use about the Blinken cancellation of the trip. So they're still not over that. They like the idea that we seem to want to meet with them more than they meet with us. The months sets of meetings, Joe, that keep going on are on the

economic side. Gina Raimondo, the secretary of commerce, has met with her counterparts. So the Chinese seem to be indicating they're comfortable with meetings that deal with trade, but not so much else. It also doesn't help that the defense minister that Secretary Austin would like to meet with is under American sanctions. It would seem to me that if we do wanna have that sort of a meeting, we might wanna figure out a way to remove those sanctions.

But this is dangerous, because what worries me about this is that if there are some kind of an incident, be it over Taiwan, the South China Sea, what have you, right now what we don't have are really good, confident mechanisms that the United States and China could do crisis communications. I don't know if you remember going back to the first months of George W. Bush's presidency, the American reconnaissance aircraft coll collide into a Chinese plane. And over a week or 10 days went by when we couldn't we couldn't find anyone in China who is home to talk to. We don't want to have that problem now, given how much more advanced and capable China is militarily.

So, you know, I understand the administration's frustration. This is dangerous, but we've probably reached the point where knocking on the door doesn't help. It makes us look too anxious for these meetings. So the Chinese are going to agree when the Chinese are ready to agree. So as we hop around the world with you, let's go to Turkey, Richard, where President Erdogan was reelected on Sunday. President Biden congratulated him, but the most enthusiastic congratulations came from Vladimir Putin and Viktor Orban. What does this mean for Turkey and for those sort of authoritarian coalition, if you will? What this tells us is where the center of Turkey is. It's

not this liberal Western country, quite culturally and politically nationalistic, quite resentful. Erdogan's a superior politician. Look, there's no silver lining to this, Willie. He is, like Orban in some way, this is an illiberal democracy. You don't want to be a journalist in Erdogan's Turkey. You don't want to be Kurdish in Erdogan's Turkey. I think you'll have continued kind of, Turkey will go its own way. It'll forge its own relationships with Russia. And it will be very difficult.

It'll be willing to use the pressure of immigrants to put pressure on Europe to get what it wants. Turkey's, the line I always come back to is Turkey's technically an ally, but it's not a partner. And that's what we have to understand. So long as Erdogan is in charge, we've got this problem within NATO. By the way, NATO's treaty has no mechanism for expelling a country. So we're just going to have to live with this. And it's a real problem given Turkey's strategic importance in the Middle East, in Europe, vis-a-vis Russia. But Erdogan, he plays his own game and it's not going to help us. But there's really not a lot we can do about it. Our final stop and our most consequential is in the Bronx, where the New York Yankees are playing very well, Richard, but still in that division, six games out. Judge hit two home runs last night. 17 on the year. Yeah, he's playing well. The Yankees are playing well, but we're all looking up at the Rays and the Orioles. What do we do here?

If I may quote Joe Scarborough, that well-known expert on Yankee baseball, Willie, it's still May. It's still May. The Yankees just pick up two games a month. Guess who's in the playoffs? Guess who's in the World Series? Just got to pace ourselves. So we're doing, look, compared to two weeks ago, it's looking a lot better in the Bronx, Willie. Looking a lot better. And somehow Judge just keeps rolling following that season. I know you're excited about how Judge is playing. Yeah, thrilled for him. It's great. Well, we can start picking on him over the last. No, we're going to let him go. We hit that already, Richard. We hit that already. There's great. Well, we can start picking on him over the last. No, we're going to let him go.

We hit that already, Richard. We hit that already. There's a lot of pain over here over last night's game, Joe. You know, though, I've got to say, Jonathan, I do like Richard. He's very optimistic about the Yankees picking up two here, picking up two there. And, you know, Gene could say if the Nationals just pick up four games every two weeks, they'll be back in the contention pretty soon. Exactly.

Between now and September. We could all say that. Jonathan O'Meara, though, I'm telling you, I'm overly optimistic about this Red Sox team. I'll be the first to admit it. But we've got a starting rotation that has some hope. Paxton, he got shelled the other night, but he's had some good outings. Sell is looking like sell at his very best right now.

You've got Whitlock back. He had a good outing the other night. Houck is up and down, but he's capable of some good outings. And there's, you know, hope springs eternal. But this is still a fun Red Sox team to watch. Yeah, it is. I agree with that. And they have defied expectations. Their expectations this year were modest, to be clear. But they've been pretty good. I mean, it's the AL East. We just saw the standings. What a beast of a division that is. The Sox are a handful of games above 500,

but yet nine and a half out. But you're right. The pitching rotation seems to have solidified. They got Kluber out of the rotation, Pavetta as well. That's some reinforcements for the bullpen. They're starting to hit. Devers could use a hot streak. He's cooled off in the last week or two, but they just went out West. Always tough. They did just fine. They come back home at Fenway starting tonight. Yeah, they're in the mix. They're okay. And we're trying to compete with those powerhouse trillion-dollar payrolls ahead of us. Well, yeah, that's the truth. What Meek and Caddy were talking about last night while they were watching the Celtics game and were FaceTiming each other about it, they said that the Yankees, the Yankees, because AL East is so strong, and this was a great point, Caddy, the Yankees, because the AL East is so strong. And

this was a great point, Katty. The Yankees would be in first place in every division in baseball, except, of course, the AL East, where they're now in third place in such a strong division. And Mika, I mean, I know like me, you were very impressed by Katty. Katty knows the standings top to bottom. We were live texting about it pretty late into the night. So, all right, Richard Haas, thank you very much. Whatever it takes to end this.

Still ahead on Morning Joe, we'll look at how Donald Trump's heated rhetoric against law enforcement is again infiltrating traditional conservative groups. Morning Joe is coming right back. Are you and other Democrats prepared for some of that finagling on the Senate floor to delay this? Well, you're really playing with fire. It's going to take at least three or four days

for this to get through the House of Representatives. And then it could take as long as a week if Republicans use all of the procedural tactics at their disposal. That, of course, would result in a default on American debt. It's too long. Yeah, something that we would never recover from. But listen, part of the reason that I was reluctant to get involved in these negotiations is that I think there's a whole big swath of the Republican Party that actually wants us to default. And you're already seeing the right way in the House or the Senate, I think mostly in the House, but some in the Senate, but I think mostly in the House. And you're starting to see the Freedom Caucus already

rallying the troops against this deal. My worry is that there may still not be enough Republicans in the House to get this deal done. Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy telling MSNBC's Jen Psaki that he wouldn't put it past House Republicans to force a default. Meanwhile, former Congresswoman Liz Cheney is calling out her former Republican colleagues. We'll have those comments. And Donald Trump claimed he was the law and order president, but he has consistently criticized law enforcement as they investigate him on a number of issues and potential crimes. We'll show you the latest example of a conservative group repeating his incendiary ramblings. It's really, it's unbelievable. It's scary.

It's unbelievable, Willie, when these people run around talking about Republicans, talking about defunding the FBI. And we're going to show a clip of somebody that runs a think tank that used to be an important think tank in Washington. Now it's just radical. But defunding the FBI, radical Republicans are for that. You know, you know who else is for that? Domestic terrorists, ISIS, our foreign enemies, drug lords, crooked politicians, cyber criminals, nuclear terrorists, biological terrorists, chemical weapons terrorists. You can go down the list, gang leaders, gang members.

Willie, it's just it's it's just it's crazy that you actually have leaders in a major party that want to define the most important law enforcement operation in America. Simply simply because they don't like some of the investigations they've had against crooked politicians. Yeah. And this is all to run interference for Donald Trump, the man who has brought them here in many ways, the man who cost them so many elections over the last five, six years. They don't like the FBI looking into Donald Trump. Therefore, it shouldn't exist or its funding should be taken away. And the military is too woke. It's kind of disorienting, Joe, to have grown up in the around the Republican Party that that we've known for so many generations to hear Republicans being the ones to say, go after the FBI and the military. But they're doing it.

Last month, you remember former President Trump called on Republicans in Congress to defund the Department of Justice and the FBI, accusing Democrats of weaponizing law enforcement. Now, here's what the president of the Conservative Heritage Foundation said. If you take a step back and look at the FBI from a policy and ideas point of view, it's clear that it's become politically weaponized. Ask Mark Houck in Pennsylvania. Ask the pro-life activist who's being hounded this weekend, probably as we sit here, Shannon, by two FBI agents. Ask anyone who's a reasonable conservative and you know that this is an agency. And I mean this very intentionally as a policy

objective. It needs to be started over from scratch and rebuilt. This is not a law enforcement agency. It's a political weapon. That's just a lie. He's lying to you. He's lying to you in a way that helps leaders of ISIS. He's lying to you in ways that make you less safe. He's lying to you. He's lying to you in a way that helps leaders of ISIS. He's lying to you in ways that make you less safe. He's lying to you in a way that provides comfort to cyber criminals, that provides comfort to domestic terrorists, that provides comfort to people who gang members, to drug dealers, drug smugglers, drug lords. I mean, the things the FBI does day in and day out and they've done day in and day out for decades. And these clowns want to defund them and make I just bring anarchy to America because Donald Trump has been investigated by the FBI.

And again, here's the most remarkable thing. Donald Trump would not be president of the United States in 2017 through 2021 if not for the FBI, if not for an FBI investigation of Hillary Clinton that went on for years with leaks to every news agency, including our own, about her emails. All leaks from the FBI, from the New York office of the FBI that hated Hillary Clinton, that kept the wind in the sails of Donald Trump's presidential campaign. And then 10 days before the letter from the FBI that reopened the investigation that even Donald Trump will tell you, or at least said then gave his campaign second life. But for the FBI, Donald Trump would never have been president. And it was clear. It was clear. The FBI was openly hostile to Hillary Clinton in 2016. I mean, you look again, you look at all of the leaks. You look at what happened the last 10 days of the campaign. This isn't even a close call.

And yet there's all of this whining by people on the right. Did you ever hear Hillary Clinton talk about defunding the FBI? Did you ever hear Hillary Clinton talking about talking about how we needed to defund the DOJ. Again, this is a party that has become so radical that some of these people are a real danger to America, America's safety, American values. They attack, Mika, the United States military. Our military is stronger now. You ask people not just in America, but across the world, they will tell you that relative to the rest of the world,

America's military might is more powerful now than any time since 1945. And if you don't believe them and you don't believe people in America who say that, maybe you can ask the family of the hundreds of Russians who bummed rushed our troops in Syria. That lasted about three minutes, ended very badly for them because America can now send 2,500 troops anywhere in the world and completely change. Yeah. Completely change the outlook for that country and bring security to it. And when you take them out, as we did in Afghanistan, again, a mistake, I believe, chaos suddenly reigns.

Those 2,500 troops kept the Taliban at bay. You take them out. The Taliban takes over the country in a week. Same thing with Syria. When our troops are in Syria and I hate to go on and on about this, but I get so angry at Republicans who keep trashing our men and women in uniform. Yeah. For political reasons. They're too woke. Really? And Mika, you know, I don't even want to mention their names. Republicans have said they wish American troops were more like Russian troops, manly like Russian troops. Really? Really? So you want them dead? Yeah. Is that what you want? Are you saying you want them to be so incompetent? So it's so extreme. It's bizarre and it's dangerous.

And and and to say you want to defund the FBI, to say you want to defund the DOJ, to attack our men and women in uniform. It's just really it's un-American.