Morning Joe - Morning Joe 5/9/23

Episode Date: May 9, 2023

Texas mall shooting victims include 3-year-old boy and his parents

Look at that beautiful sunrise in New York City, 6 o'clock on the East Coast. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Tuesday, May 9th. Can you imagine waking up every morning there? What a view Mika has. Again, I don't know about the satellite dish, but you know, whenever she sees the ram, she goes out and she just moves it a little bit west, picks up. Yeah. Some people have the red zone package.

Mika just gets out there game to game. If the team gets in a red zone, she turns it in that direction. Yeah. And you can watch the end of that game. I've never been invited up there. I wonder what the team is like. Well, I haven't either, but I mean, sometimes she lets Jack go up to move the satellite dish. Jack, I'd like to see you upstairs, downstairs.

Oh, no. Miss Mika. You know, it's funny with the two of you in New York City saying all this. Well, it is kind of funny. Are you up there? No, she's up there. This is straight up. Like, 78th floor.

15 years of this. 15 years. And you know what? It just keeps getting easier. 78th floor. 15 years of this. 15. 15 years. And you know what? It just keeps getting easier every day, baby. No. Wow. Just wow. Look at that.

This sun. I want to sing some Cat Stevens. Morning is broken. Come on. Look how beautiful that is. You can see all five boroughs in New Jersey from that view. I wouldn't know, but I'm told you can see it. Exactly. Exactly.

Exactly. Eddie Glaude, how are you doing today? It's Dean's Day at Princeton. I'm excited. It's Dean's Day. Yay. Oh, that's wonderful. That's interesting because in Alabama we'd have Ribs Day.

So that sounds really hoity-toity. But we just go to Dreamland Ribs and, you know, talk about the football team. But Dean's Day, what happens on Dean's Day? All the papers are coming in. All the written work is due. It's near the end of the semester. So the students are at the home stretch. They're crossing the tape now. Can I ask you one thing? Yes, sir. What's the dean?

What's the dean? Yeah. Oh, it's the dean of the college. It's the dean of the college. It's not a restaurant. Oh, my God. So it's like football coach at Alabama. Yeah. Kind of it's the dean of the college. It's the dean of the college. It's not a restaurant. Oh, my God. So it's like football coach at Alabama. Yeah. Kind of. I think. Because we'd have Coach's Day down there. Yeah. Right after Ribs Day. Get your picture made with the coach. Yeah. Yeah. On the riblet. It was real. I'm telling you, it was great stuff. Now, it's amazing. College. Have you ever been to Tuscaloosa, Ralph? I have been to Tuscaloosa.

I joke about it a lot because, of course, they're embarrassed that they let me in, but you know, it's an incredible place. Well, I brag about it. I know you in Tuscaloosa, so don't worry about it. I always tell everybody. Oh, thank God. I'm Joe's friend. After, you know, I do

my morning work, I just got back downstairs because I go upstairs. Mika lets you use a gym? Only for a minute. I get on the balcony and go, let there be light. That's my job every morning. Lamir, have you been invited up there, too? Because she never lets me go up there.

No, not once. I spend a lot of time in this building, particularly in the early morning hours, but no, I've never been up either. It does look very, very nice. I have to do the let there be light for Mika every morning. It's amazing. Mika, of course, at the top floor right now there. And Katty K, of course, I know four o'clock because I hear about it. Hey, Katty's coming over. We can't do the conference call at four. We're having tea and crumpets every day. It's amazing, isn't it, Cady? Well, you have to have the clotted cream as well, right?

You've got to have the scones and clotted cream at four, and that takes like 45 minutes. And then it's cucumber sandwiches time, so that gets us through to like five. I mean, there's a lot to do in an afternoon. Because for Cady, it's actually noon. That's a lot. I mean, Tuscaloosa, we had ribs and white bread. No cucumber sandwiches. No cucumber sandwiches. You go into Dreamland and they say sides and it's just white bread. Yeah. So, Katty, I haven't talked to you since the coronation. How did how did King Charles do?

Any any fights break out with the family in the middle of Trafalgar Square? Is everything go okay there? Well, he got a crown on his head, so that's a plus. You know, that was the bottom line. That was the gist of it. There was a little bit of a hitch. It didn't all go as smoothly as we had planned. For some reason, Kate and William turned up late.

I mean, it's a coronation. How do you turn up late? I know. Right? In fairness. No, seriously. So in the running order, the order of service, the Prince and Princess of Wales, Kate and William to you, are meant to be sitting there in their seats when the king comes up the

abbey in his procession. No Kate and William. We don't know what happened. Anyway, they roll up. The king gets there in his carriage and then has to sit there for a few minutes fiddling his thumbs. Come on, man. It's a power move. Let me tell you something.

It is a power move. But you know what he's saying? You're going to be dead in a few years. I'm going to be king. I don't think you should be saying that on your dad's coronation. It's what he was saying. No, Katie, here's the deal. That is such a male response.

I'm sorry. No, it's a Nikki Haley response. They have three small children and one of the children, something went wrong. Don't you think, Mika, right? Little Prince Louis had a hissy fit before. Every working parent's nightmare. That's what happened. Let me tell you.

Let me tell you something. So Mika was saying to me, she's saying, oh, did Charles like did Charles like have a hissy fit? Like, you know, I really say, oh, Charles is really angry and everything kind of like the pen thing. And I said, listen, if I'm being coordinated king and any one of my kids are late, I'm not going to be happy. Like the fact that Charles stayed in his like Cinderella, I would have like broken it out. Like that would go up and down with the phone going, where are you? Come on, man. So there he is.

Yeah. Speaking of Tuscaloosa, we do that a lot in Tuscaloosa. It's a fatale. All right. Yeah. So anyway, so but anyway, it's very interesting that I'm going to I'm going to leave it at this. I looked like right before the coronation about their approval ratings, these royals, and they all seem to be doing pretty well. Charles is going up.

Camilla still having some problems, but everybody else going up. But I will tell you, I don't think it's the case in America, but in Britain, man, Prince Harry and Meghan at the bottom with Andrew, huh, Katty? Yeah, they don't like Prince Harry. There's really no sympathy for Prince Harry from the book he wrote and for the tell-all. There's very much been a reaction. Listen, if you have these problems with the family, you keep them to yourself. You do not need to make a lot of money by doing a tell-all book about the royal family. So there's not a lot.

You know, I'm just looking at these pictures having flown back to Washington. Yeah. And I do kind of see how ridiculous it is. Yeah. No, it's great. No, this is great. This is great stuff. Come on.

And I love it, but I'm looking and thinking. No, it's awesome. Come on. Exactly. I agree with you, Caddy. It's great stuff. We love it,

and we're looking forward to Williams in a few years. Exactly. Long live the king. Long live the king. Yeah. So, yeah, that's the problem. He talked. Don. Long live the king. Yeah. So, yeah, that's a problem. He talked.

Don't talk out of school. Don't talk about your family. Don't talk about, like, your mom and, like, you know, her favorite lotion. It's just all, like, come on, what's he doing? Whatever the opposite of a royal watcher is, that's me. So my insights might not be the best here. I share Cady's view, and I'm glad she said it, and I didn't. The shot with the hats or whatever those were, the crowns.

Yeah. It's silly. I mean, it is, and we're still doing it. But Harry was given a third row seat, not invited to the after party or whatever the thing after the thing was called, and just got on the plane and went back home. So yeah, tough love over there. Third row seat's pretty good. That's better than Bob Euchre or I got, right?

You know Euchre's still alive. I didn't know he was still alive. He still calls games. He's still alive. He still calls games. That guy's such a hero. Yeah, Hall of Famer. Best seats in the house, Mika.

Best seats in the house. I have got no control over this situation. Yes. You will notice that unlike Harry, I've written no tell all books about you or your penthouse apartment or the rev coming up, working out up there and everybody else. I mean, I'm keeping it all to myself. She just leaves me in a shack, leaves me in a shack down by the river. Let's say, why don't you stay right there? Ahead this morning, President Biden. She got the news. It's six. Oh, wait, Kevin McCarthy. Seconds. Go ahead. To discuss the debt ceiling. It's their first face to face on the issue since February. We'll

go through what is expected to come out of this afternoon's talks, plus an update on Donald Trump's civil rape trial as the case goes to the jury for deliberations in just a few hours. And we'll take a look at a much more muted Victory Day celebration in Moscow today and what it says about the popularity of Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine. But first, we are learning new information this morning into the investigation into Saturday's mass shooting at an outlet mall near Dallas that left eight people dead and several others injured. Social media postings reveal the gunman shared extremist beliefs online with rants against Jews, women and racial minorities. One post included a series of shirtless pictures with visible white

power tattoos, including SS lightning bolts and a swastika. And in the weeks leading up to the attack, he posted more than two dozen photos of the Allen premium outlets where the shooting took place. We've also learned the gunman had a brief stint in the army. He entered military service in June of 2008, but was kicked out three months later for a physical or mental condition. He did not complete initial entry training. Right now, investigators are analyzing evidence found from two locations, his family's home and a hotel. A law enforcement official familiar with the investigation tells NBC News it may take weeks or even months for investigators to gain a more complete picture of the gunman's ideology. At this point, he has no criminal record that authorities are aware of.

Willie, let's go live to Allen, Texas, where we find NBC News correspondent Maggie Vespa. Maggie, good morning. As we talk about the shooter in this case, in this horrific case, another horrific case in our country, focus on the victims as well, some of them as young as three years old. Yeah, Willie, children, young children, as you point out, from two North Texas families among the victims. It obviously speaks to why the memorial behind us is so large and growing by the day. We had a huge vigil out here last night. There was actually somebody directing traffic into the parking lot and he was stopping people

and saying, are you here to pay your respects? And if people said no, he said, then you can't come in here. This is what this parking lot right now is being used for. We do briefly, and we're just gonna, you know, talk about the shooter as little as possible, but motive is always a huge question, right? And those haunting social media posts that have come to light in the last 24 hours, really shedding a lot of light, investigators say, on what may

have been behind this. Obviously, the shooter was killed in a shootout with police. We have an update on that officer here in a minute. But a senior law enforcement official telling NBC News that those posts, and no surprise here, will absolutely and already are a key part of this investigation, including another post, in addition to all the ones that Mika highlighted, that seems to show a receipt for $3,200 worth of firearms and ammo and weapons. That, again, also part of the investigation at this point. Also, obviously, turning to politics, that's also a backdrop right now. Days after this horrific shooting here on Saturday, Texas Republicans, including Senator Ted Cruz and Governor Greg Abbott, saying that guns are not the problem, pointing to mental health, kind of using the same rhetoric that we're used to hearing in times like these and

facing the familiar backlash that we're used to seeing in times like these. Given all that, again, we do want to zero in on the victims. So everybody's coming out here to honor day after day. We have some new names as of last night. So I'll make sure I read these correctly. Three-year-old James Cho, the youngest victim, but that you pointed out, he was killed along with his parents, Cindy and Q Cho, his six-year-old brother, William. This little boy just turned six, is the only survivor of his family. Also the Mendoza family. They lost 11-year-old Daniela, this little boy just turned six, is the only survivor of his family. Also the Mendoza family. They lost 11 year old Daniela, eight year old Sophia. Their mother is in critical condition from the shooting. Also among the victims, 32 year old Elio, Cumana Rivas, 26 year old Ashwaria Tata Kondita, and 23 year old security guard here at the mall,

Christian LaCour. So everybody doing their best to kind of name them again, as much as possible, at least far more than the shooter, which we always make a practice of. And finally, we want to point out again, that police officer who authorities say killed the shooter here at the mall in that shootout. He was wounded, being hailed as a hero this morning and over at an attorney saying the officer is quote, doing well, adding he is a brave servant with a gentle heart. So obviously all of our hearts go out to that officer, to his family and to the families of all those wounded and killed in America's latest mass shooting. Guys, I'll send it back to you. At an outlet shopping mall on a Saturday afternoon, NBC's Maggie Vespa in Allen,

Texas. Maggie, thanks so much. Let's put that picture up again. Joe, this is what we're talking about here. This is a family that was out for a day of shopping at an outlet mall. All three of the people in that photograph are dead for the crime of walking around a mall. Their six-year-old son, as Maggie just pointed out, William, survived. So now he will grow up without his parents, without his sibling, because they went to a mall on Saturday. And Willie, this tragedy is repeated every day, repeated every day across America, every day, whether we report it or not, because, you know, we don't have the time in a four hour show to report all the killings that take place in America.

I mean, you look at the numbers. So, Greg Abbott, I mean, it's just absolutely disgusting that Greg Abbott puts up tweets saying that Texas is only number two in the states that have purchased new guns. He said he's ashamed. They need to be number one. He changes law after law after law. That makes it easier for people that are unqualified, untrained, emotionally unmoored, and they get guns untrained. And he says, I'm embarrassed. This is back in 2015, Texas, number two nation for new gun purchases behind California. Let's pick up the pace, Texans. And of course,

he wants the NRA to know that he's being a good boy. He wants the NRA to know that he's a faithful servant, that he's going to care more about the gun lobby than children that get killed in his own state. And by the way, this is about guns. You know, the whole it's not guns that kill people. It's people that kill. Oh, really? Well, let's just look at the last 10 years as guns have continued to skyrocket in the past 10 years, as gun laws have become stupider, more dangerous and more deadly. Look at firearm mortality in the state of taxes. It has skyrocketed. It keeps going up. The same thing has been happening in America since Sandy Hook. And these politicians, they know it. They know it.

You look at the mass. Well, there's the gun deaths since 2014. Again, this is not an accident. This is not like the tides coming in and going out and like it's nothing we can stop. This is an American crisis. It's not a British crisis. This doesn't happen in Britain. It's not a crisis in France. It's not a crisis in Australia. This is an American crisis and one of our own choosings. Rev, the numbers just keep skyrocketing and they keep saying the same stupid thing after Texas churches are shot up, after Texas malls are shot up, after Texas schools are shot up, after little

children are gunned down in Uvalde. I'm sorry, heartless, soulless. They are heartless, soulless politicians who continue to let these kids die because they don't want to cross an NRA that is just not as powerful as it used to be. They don't want to cross an NRA. They don't want to stand up to the gun manufacturers. When you say it is not the guns, it's the people. People could not kill without the gun. Well, and they get people, by the way, in Great Britain. I don't know. We could ask Caddy this question, but they got people in Great Britain. But they don't have more guns than people in Great Britain. We have more guns than people here.

By the way, they also don't have laws that allow people to walk in and get a gun and carry it around without any training or without a permit. I always talk about, you got guns. Absolutely. I got guns. Guess what else I had? Got training. I got a permit. I always talk about, got guns. Absolutely. I got guns. Guess what else I had? Got training. I got a permit.

Went through the process. Practice at the range. They have idiots now. When you talk to gun owner, I mean, gun shop owners, and they will go like, they'll tell me, this guy just walked in. He's an idiot. I had to sell him the gun, you know, past this cursory check. And it's again, Greg Abbott and Texas legislators are killing little children every day

because they won't do what is required to keep them safe in schools, to keep them safe in churches, to keep them safe in synagogues, to keep them safe in schools, to keep them safe in churches, to keep them safe in synagogues, to keep them safe at country music concerts. No, it is an unbelievable crisis that we have self-inflicted so that others could make crazy money selling us guns and just keep doing it. And no one's standing up. There must be a movement across all lines to stop this. That's the only way it's going to have to be. And Eddie, Governor Abbott immediately tries to short circuit any gun conversation by saying this shooting happens or another one in his state. We've got to do something about mental health in this country. And we all agree we do.

The other element of this is guns was clearly he doesn't want to factor into this. After the shooting in Nashville at the Covenant School, you had members of the delegation, Republicans in Tennessee and Congress saying, there's nothing we can do about this. We're not going to do anything up here. Sorry. It's the price of freedom. I don't think, I don't think Joe thinks, I don't think anyone here thinks that most of the country agrees with that. Right.

No one wants the price of freedom to be that three-year-old kid at a mall or a nine-year-old kid at a Christian school in Nashville. Yeah. The sad irony is that the country refuses to protect our babies and then expects those same children to grow up to save the country. Isn't that, you know, it's just terrible on a certain level. It's a corruption of the soul. It's a corruption of the soul. We talk about fighting for the soul of America, right? This reality, it reflects the kind of corruption of the soul for me. And it seems to me and I'm just going to echo something that Rev said.

We can talk about the NRA. We could talk about, you know, the gun manufacturers. We could talk about Republicans. We have to fight for a world where this is not happening. Right. Because I have a sneaking suspicion, Joe, that that data that we just showed, that mass murders are actually correlated with the availability of the AR-15. Right. Of assault weapons. And so it seems to me that there could be a general agreement among all Americans that that weapon should not be in the hands of Americans, that it shouldn't be on our streets. And so if we can't make that decision, it's not just simply about Republicans in the NRA and the gun. It's about us

if we can't fight to get those weapons off our streets so we can protect our babies. I mean, you talk to most sheriffs, especially cops in big cities. You talk to most people in the military. They don't they don't want. Americans, especially without training, to be running around with AR-15s. Those are weapons that were designed for war. In case somebody's tuning in for the first time specifically, read a 1981 Atlantic article by James Fallows. It was designed to be lighter, smaller caliber, easier to run through the jungles of Vietnam, easier to kill more Vietnamese than the heavy weapons that that were being used at the time. But you look, though, at the numbers here,

Jonathan, and I do believe there's going to be a change in America. I do believe it's coming just like it has on abortion in a way that people have just had enough. I mean, and you look at what we're showing you right there, and the AR-15 used in the deadliest mass shootings. You know why? Because the AR-15 is not designed for hunting. The AR-15 is not designed to protect our house. The AR-15 is designed to kill people,

and specifically to kill lots of people in warfare. And this is what happens in America. And this is a choice that Greg Abbott and our politicians make every day. So most Americans actually are with us, right? This is 90% wanting universal background checks, 75% wanting red flag laws, overwhelming majority of Americans want one new gun safety regulation after another. And even a majority of Americans want AR-15s banned. You know, 77% want a 30 day waiting period. Eighty one percent want there to be a requirement that somebody has to be at least

21. My God, makes such sense for all gun purchases. This is what we are saying right here. This is not like some elitist view. The isolated view is the other side, the Greg Abbott view. And yet he ignores the will of 90 percent of Americans. He does. Kids die in his state. It can't be overstated that the AR-15 is designed not just to kill people, but to kill as many people as quickly as possible. And the wounds are not meant to be survivable. The impact of a bullet fired from AR-15, the Washington Post did a series on it. There's graphic footage that came out of the mall shooting on Saturday that shows the impact of what an AR-15 does to a human body, particularly a child's body. And we are seeing, as we did after Parkland, there seems to be more of a national conversation

about guns, some political momentum here. But will it turn into action? In Texas, there was a surprise vote yesterday out of committee. A couple of Republicans voted with their Democratic colleagues to pass, this would be a legislation that would raise the age to buy an assault-style weapon from 18 to 21. Now, it's not expected to pass in the full Congress there in Texas because it's dominated by Republicans, but it does seem a step in the right direction. And at the very least, crystallizes this idea, what you're getting at is that Republicans seem

more and more out of step with the rest of the country. The rest of the country wants some sort of common sense measure here. They want some sort of change. So Americans do not have to live in fear doing the most mundane things like going to a mall on a Saturday afternoon and risk being wiped out by a white supremacist gunman. Look at that number, Miko. 14,945 people have been killed by guns in gun violence so far just this year, over five months, over five months. For 20 years, we rightly reported on the deaths and the death count of American troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. And over 20 years, that number was one fourth of what it is over five months, one fourth over two decades of what it is in America, of Americans being killed by Americans just in the past five months.

And the situation in Texas is especially gruesome, which makes Greg Abbott's lack of leadership especially painful. In the L.A. Times, columnist Elsie Granderson writes about Greg Abbott. You know, politicians talk about mental health and it's important. In fact, we need a lot more mental health support in this country, really good quality mental health support. But this governor talks about it like it's important to him and it's not. It's a political prop. It's a distractor. And this columnist writes to review the governor who identified the importance of his state's mental health services later took 211 million from them. The governor who gutted mental health care now says it's the key to preventing mass shootings. Really? This is the governor that bragged that his state

should be number one and it's only number two in gun sales. This isn't a governor who doesn't care about mental health and definitely thinks the proliferation of guns is a good thing in his state. And he's not looking at the reality right in front of him. Does he really care, Katty Kay, about these people getting massacred and many by weapons of war? Yeah, I mean, decades of budget cuts in Texas mean that there is effectively no welfare state. There is no support for people of any kind, really, in terms of public assistance in health care issues for things like mental health. I mean, it's just, it has disappeared, whether it's rape victims, child abuse victims.

The figures for all of these are higher in Texas. You know, more children die from child abuse in Texas than in any other state in the union because there are no social services. And that's a decision by a Republican legislator to cut those social services. And that's a decision by a Republican legislator to cut those social services. And it's very hard then to say, well, we have to see this as a mental health problem when you haven't addressed the mental health issue. I mean, I just it is worth reminding people things can be done. Other countries have had mass shootings in

Britain in 1996. Sixteen five and six-olds were killed in a school shooting. By the end of the following year, Parliament had banned private ownership of handguns. Assault weapons had already been banned. There has not been a single school shooting in the United Kingdom since 1996. It's possible. It's a choice you can make or a choice you cannot make to address these issues. But to blame them on mental health when you've undercut mental health resources and anyway, other countries have mental health problems. They just don't have gun shootings is seems ducking the issue, to put it mildly.

Oh, it is ducking the issue. And you look at every stupid argument that they make. I mean, there used to be 20, 30 years ago, you could have a debate over guns in America, you know, handgun shot. You can have that debate and the debate would go back and forth and it would be reasonable and rational debate on what is the Second Amendment mean? What what phrase in the Second Amendment takes precedent? That's been answered. But now, Willie, you really can't have a meaningful debate with somebody who is is in support of AR-15s and against universal background checks and are basically the 6 percent. And you can't do that because their arguments are so stupid. And after about three minutes, they're talking in circles. It's just like the abortion debate. You can't have a debate on abortion because somebody will say baby killer and they expect that to end the debate. Now, good luck

taking that to the people you're going to lose. Here you have this debate. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Oh, really? Well, why is it that now that we have so many more guns, so many more people are dying? Right. And again, Britain has people. Those people aren't killing people. France has people. Those people are mental health. It's the same thing. And Greg Abbott, I'm sorry. What? How grotesque that he hides behind the dead bodies of little babies and says we need more mental health. And he guts, he guts mental health. It's all a lie. And, you know, so if you have the mental health argument, the very people talking about mental health are It's all a lie. And, you know, so if you have the mental health argument, the very people talking about mental health are the people who have been slashing mental health and social services for 50 years. And then, you know, you have an argument about, you know,

the old bargain they love. Oh, take take they are 50. Yeah, that's what Mao did first. That's what Hitler did. That's what you know, when somebody's tried that with me last year, talking about how the state will have all the power, I said, well, think how perverse it's gotten, buddy. Think about the fact that you had like 200 law enforcement officers standing outside a school because one 18 year old freak was on the inside with an AR-15 and just one freak had more killing power inside school with little children than 200 police officers on the outside who felt like they couldn't go in and save the little children. Because one in america one freak who's 18 years old who's mentally unmoored can have more firepower than an entire police division in a small town and because of little children are slaughtered i mean that tells you how sick and twisted the debate has come there is

no debate the 90 on universal background checks, the 75% on red flag laws, the majority of Americans in the Air 15, they have all the arguments because the dead bodies keep piling up because of people like Greg Abbott. It's just, it's not even a debate anymore. Their argument is, it's my Second Amendment right.

But it's not. It's not. There's nothing in the Constitution. There's nothing in a single Supreme Court decision that suggests that is their right. They should actually read the Constitution. They should read the Second Amendment. They should read Heller. They should read all the cases around guns. They should read what Connecticut does. They should read the ban of military style weapons and see that the Supreme Court has allowed that to stand as law for nearly a decade now. And the argument that somehow still prevails is the NRA's argument that it's a slippery slope. If we if we give an inch on the AR-15, next they're coming for your handguns.

They're going to take away the shotgun. You go hunting with the shotgun. You go defend your home with. And I think I won't speak for everyone here, but I think we respect Second Amendment rights for people. You've talked about owning guns as well. And the problem is the AR-15 has become so almost deified and glorified that it's in campaign ads. It's in Christmas. They wear pins on the floor. Some of the campaign logos that Republicans run have the AR-15 in the logo of their campaign. So giving that away is a bridge too far for so many of them. And to your point about good guys with guns, there were cops, thank God, there on Saturday.

They were already there on a different call, but not before eight people were slaughtered because a guy just got out of his car, raised up an AR-15, and killed a three-year-old and his parents and other young children as well before the cop bravely ran to the sound of gunfire and got him. But the good guy with the gun was there, but eight people died while they were shopping at a mall. The thing is, there is, Jonathan, a slippery slope. The slippery slope, though, is going in the opposite direction. Even now, gun manufacturers,

we heard from Michael Tomasky yesterday, has an article in The New Republic. Even now, gun manufacturers are making deadlier and more dangerous guns. When are we going to stand up? When are the 90% going to stand up and say, yes, there is a slippery slope, and we're going down it.

And that slope is slippery because of the blood of our infants that you are killing. I mean, there's a slippery it's going to keep getting worse until we stand up and vote. We stand up, raise our voices. We organize. We get out the vote. And we put in legislators, Republicans, independents and Democrats alike that understand this gun madness has to stop. It is going to keep getting worse. And even as the NRA itself has been weakened, the gun has become so fabric and intrinsic to the identity of so many on the right, the state of the pins, the state of the union. It is the campaign ads, as Willie said.

It is part of who that fringe right, part of who they think they are and need to be. And the hope here is that that is a shrinking percentage of the population. They still wield a lot of influence right now in a lot of state houses and right now in the House of Representatives. The thought, though, is hopefully over time that will shrink. But until then, more children will die. All right, we'll continue. This conversation is still ahead on Morning Joe.

The latest in the civil rape case against Donald Trump as a jury is set to begin deliberations today. Plus, more legal trouble for the former president as the judge overseeing his hush money case puts new restrictions on what Trump can post on social media. Also ahead, the Biden administration's new plan to compensate passengers for flight delays and cancellations and Joe's full interview with Democratic Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania. He explains how what most would think was his

happiest day in politics turned out to be his darkest and how he fought his way back. That powerful interview is straight ahead. You're watching Morning Joe. It's all right. Yeah. It's all right. It's all right. It's all right. Yeah. It's all right. It's all right. Oh! Walker guarded by Curry.

Walker, pull up. Walker hits another one. Who's that that you ask? That's Lonnie Walker The Lakers getting an unlikely boost in game four against the Warriors From Walker coming off the bench to score all 15 of his points in the fourth quarter You just never know Including that go-ahead jumper in the final minutes

LeBron James team high 27 Anthony Davis coming on here now again Scored 23 points as well with 15 rebounds. The Lakers overcame Steph Curry's 31-point triple-double to win 104-101. So now LA has a 3-1 lead in the series as the teams head back to San Francisco for Game 5 tomorrow night where the Lakers could go to the Western Conference Finals for all the problems they've had this year. So, Willie, I don't much to my son's chagrin. Joey calls me every day and says, did you see Golden State? Did you see? I just, I haven't watched the NBA

in a long, I love college basketball. I just don't watch it. You know, they walk three feet down the court and throw like an 80 foot shot and it swishes it's just it's just not things and all that said it is so great i know lamere is gonna hate me for this it is so great to see showtime back in la it's so great to see the lakers winning games again oh come on man jack nicholson was at a game the other night he's back yeah he swore keep winning. I mean, this is like L.A. comes to life. Like, seriously. But Willie, I got to say this. I'm looking through what's the paper record first. New York Post. Paper first on front page.

Codger, Dodger. It's possible Hunter indictment looms. Biden bans the post from event. Leaves press seats empty. Takes no questions. That's not why I'm showing this. Let's see what they have. Oh, they have pictures of women in bathing suits on the inside. It must be sprained. Or every other day. Or every other day, New York Post. A whole lot of trouble. Let me tell you something. More than 100 Biden's laptop, the New York Post was invented to talk about the problems of the New York Jets, the New York Mets, and the New York Knicks.

It's, I mean, they're like, you know, this is egg in their beer right now. They're happy people. It's when they shine. The Daily News as well. Jimmy two times talking about Jimmy Butler dominating the Knicks last night. If we must, here's some highlights. Knicks are on the brink of elimination. The Heat never trailed the Knicks in a 101-109 win last night.

Miami now takes a 3-1 series lead to Madison Square Garden for game five tomorrow. Richard Haas is here with us. He's the president, of course, of the Council on Foreign Relations. Richard, I watched the whole game with my son, who's a Knicks fan. The Heat just wanted it more. As, by the way, Julius Randle, the Knicks star, said after the game, I think they just want it more. Not exactly what you want to hear down the stretch, but out-hustled offensive rebounds, better team, played harder, played better. The Heat did. Oh, absolutely. The offensive rebounding, plus the Knicks cannot hit a three-point shot. The difference.

I mean, Golden State, I watched them, and they're down 3-1 with Steph Curry. I actually feel they still have a shot at it. Sure. I do not feel that about the Knicks, and that makes me sad. Can I ask you guys a question? I'm dead serious about this. I mean, the owner, is it Dolan? Dolan, yeah.

Is he like the Dan Snyder of New York? I mean, because uh is it dolan dolan is is is you like the dan snyder of of new york i mean because this is what i don't understand the knicks they're one of the they still make more money than almost yeah uh any sport in the world they're number two or three yeah but it this has been a dysfunctional organization 50 years for 50 years and i mean by dysfunctional i mean really dysfunctional. The fans have been suffering too long here. How does something stay this bad for so long? Can you imagine a great Knicks team?

Madison Square Garden would be lit up every night. It would be the greatest show on earth. It really would. It's been 50 years since the last title. 1973, the New York Knicks. They had good teams when I was coming up in high school and college. Richard Nixon was president. With Patrick Ewing.

They were on the brink of winning one in 94. They lost. John Starks. Oh. The Bulls. The Bulls. But think about the fact that the biggest free agents, whenever they come up, whether it's LeBron or KD or whoever it is,

they don't want to go play for the Knicks. But what does that tell you? They have a chance to come to the Mecca, to come to the heart of New York City, the branding, the marketing, all the opportunities, all the money that comes with that. The money they could make if they came to New York, but they know it's a debt. It's a coldness. And they don't come to New York. We got Jalen Brunson, who's been great this year as our big free agent signing. But the biggest of the big names won't come to New York City, won't come to the Garden.

They'll go to Brooklyn. KD did that. But they won't come to the Garden. What does that tell you? Yeah. You know, how are the Celtics doing? They're 2-2 in their series against Philadelphia. So that's a that's a fun, fun rollback series. It's been a good series. How's Moses Malone doing? Yeah, Malone will be there. Dr. J Malone, Larry Bird, McHale, Dr. Parrish. The Chief is still holding his own. He might still be playing.

He played until he was nearly 50. I got to tell you something. The Sixers, I mean, just the Sixers, old school, first of all, Dr. J. Bobby Jones, Andrew Toney. Kids that never saw Dr. J fly through the air, especially those ABA red, white, and blue basketballs. That was like Hendricks, the Beatles, and Elvis combined for basketball.

That was man crazy. Oh, Steve Nix coming up. Oh, I love the Sixers. Professor? Oh, I love the Sixers. Look at you, Professor. Oh, I love the Sixers, especially when they were beating the Celtics. That didn't happen very often. I'll just point that out. We can point to the – yeah, the Celtics 2-2,

they lost a heartbreaker at the buzzer on Sunday when they could have seized control of that series. But, I mean, a Celtics-Lakers final is on the horizon. We've had a few of those, obviously, over the years. And especially you throw LeBron in the mix now with his own history against the Celtics-Lakers finals is on the horizon. We've had a few of those, obviously, over the years. And especially you throw LeBron in the mix now with his own history against the Celtics. That would be something. But you've got to get by Philly first. And Bede and Harden have been really, really good.

So tell me, does the garden floor still sweat? They finally fixed that because it's the ice underneath from the Bruins games. Like in 1997, right? Yeah, like just a couple weeks ago. Well, the Bruins got eliminated, so that took care of that problem. All right, so listen, first of all, we're just going to do a little support group meeting here. And I want everybody to say, I am worthy.

My baseball team is worthy. It is a marathon, not a sprint. Can you say that, Richard? It's tough to say this morning, Joe. It's tough to say? Because let me tell you something. I say this to Willie all the time, and it's true. Baseball season's a marathon, my friend. The Yankees will be back. Guys that went somewhere between 108, 115 games, you'll be fine. It's just as hard to win those 10 games back. Getting harder. We're digging ourselves into quite the hole.

Well, you're getting injured again. Everybody's hurt. Everybody's hurt. That was the Yankees except for last year. It was a weird year because, you know, Judge, God bless him. We love him. He always gets hurt. And the Yankees always get hurt.

They always have injuries, but this is unusual. But now we're almost a quarter away through the season. This isn't like early days yet. Ten games out. You have to say, though, I mean, the division is just outrageously good. Every team in that division has a winning record. Every team has a positive run differential. They score more than they give up.

The Rays, how about the Orioles, man? That is so exciting. The Jays are good. The Sox are hot. So it's tough. So look at this division. We usually have no excuse for just showing the ALEs. This year is different. The Red Sox, at least before their loss against the Phillies a

couple of days ago, the Red Sox would have been in first place in four of the six divisions in baseball. Those are five of the best eight teams in baseball. It's brutal. It's a brutes, and that's why the climb out of last place is going to be hard. Nobody's going to give up much up at the top there. They had a six-run lead the other day over the Rays, and they lost the game. Good news, though. Guess who's in town? The Oakland A's. They helped us get better a little bit last night.

And the other thing that helps the A's. By the way, watch their announcer. Holy cow. Yeah, we don't play what he said. What was that for? We're not playing that. Oh, did you miss that? The A's's we don't play what he said. What was that? Yeah. Oh, did you miss that? The answer has been suspended for something. He's not coming. The other thing that helps the American making the trip to New York. No, the least is the schedule change this year. And each

team, you play far fewer games against your division foes than you used to. Six fewer per team. So that's going to help the ALEs all stay with those records. Yeah, but there's always so many playoff spots. Yeah, we were 3-16 against the Jays last year. I mean, but we're playing teams from other – They play 12 times. You guys got to be happy, though. What a pleasant surprise, the Sox. Everybody's happy, but Mike Barnicle, he's a grump.

He keeps saying how horrible he is. We won eight games. I'm like, are you happy now, Mike? No. No, they're not hitting their cutoff throws. It's like, what are you talking about? He's managing expectations. I think he's worried that it might go well, which is sort of an odd feeling.

I think he's more worried that Heimblum may have actually put together a good team because nobody in Red Sox nation, like, want to admit that. And it's a fascinating, fascinating team. But I should say, should say though remember you mentioned the open a's vita blue yeah vita blue just passed and as a kid i used to just love the way you turn all the way back and then so those a's teams were so great but i loved watching vita blue pitch that guy was crazy so richard i'm told we have 30 30 seconds to talk about Russia, to talk about Russia and their Victory Day parade in the midst of a collapse. I think we may go past that 30 seconds. Far different Victory Day parade this year than even last year. do get the sense that this is a Vladimir Putin and this is a Russia coming to terms with certainly defeat, a defeat based, you know, compared to their expectations.

And right now they're just trying to figure out a way to spin this to the public. That's one of several things happening. You're right. Clearly, the Russians are not going to come in the same zip code as their expectations or their initial ambitions. Ukraine's going to come in the same zip code as their expectations or their initial ambitions. Ukraine is going to continue to exist. It still controls 85, 86 percent of its territory. I think, secondly, Ukraine is coming to terms with the fact, Joe, that they won't be able to liberate their territory militarily. Crimea, it's just too hard. I think China is beginning to come to terms that the bet they made on Russia was wrong. Maybe they ought to try to recover some of that prestige with a bit of a diplomatic role. So I actually think we're beginning to see, at the risk of sounding optimistic, which is something I try not to be, I'm beginning to see some of the pieces begin to align.

I would bet by late this year we're going to see some potentially serious diplomacy. So where does that come from, Richard? Is it China? And if so, what power does China come from, Richard? Is it China? And if so, what power does China have really to exert over Vladimir Putin here? We come from the United States and Europe on one side, working with China. Essentially, we would try to do something with Ukraine to get them to settle in the short run for less than they want. They won't get all their territory back. We would turn to China and say, you've got to start leaning on your friend, Vlad. You need to introduce some limits into your no limits relationship.

China may be interested in doing it just for the idea. This is part of their prestige, part of their emergence on the on the world stage. That's where I think it begins to happen. I'm not saying it's not as far from anything certain, but we're just beginning to see some of the pieces. You know, the Russians don't like the Chinese any more than they like the Americans. They don't like being basically a colony of China, which they are rapidly. The longer this war goes, the weaker they get, the more they're being colonized economically and politically by China. So Putin can't allow this to continue.

The weaker he gets, the more he's dominated and owned by China. And Russians have historically seen them as a threat as much as the United States, maybe more. Yeah. And the White House is happy to use the phrase junior partner all the time when describing Russia's relationship with China. And Richard, maybe it's a sign of weakness, but remember when the Kremlin got attacked? Nothing's happened. Nothing's happened. What does that tell you? Does that tell you that this is that does that potentially rule against a false flag operation because Russia would use his provocation? Or does it also show you that maybe Russia can't escalate further, even if this was carried out by some sort of pro-Ukraine group? Well, two things, though. One was used as part

of their narrative at home where the victim and the other side is aggressive. Now, since then, we've also seen some cruise missile attacks on Kiev, a little bit more on Kiev and Odessa. So I think it was just a pretext to doing that. But it was basically a nothing burger. Hasn't changed. Hasn't changed anything. So if Putin was hoping this was some big move, clearly it's essentially it's come up empty. You know, Caddy, as you know, before World War One, there were three empires that ruled across ruled Europe. All three of those empires were casualties of a four year war. And it seemed impossible for the people of Europe that those empires would ever go away. Here we are a couple of years into a war in Ukraine. This war has changed forever. How many of us are going to look at Russia? They are a third rate military power. And I look at the pictures of those old Russian veterans, people who fought and won Leningrad, people, people who fought and won. I mean, just this this glorious war for for Russia.

And they're looking now at a country that. And this is literal that even Estonia does not fear. What a bitter pill this must be for all Russians, especially President Putin, to swallow. Yeah, you wonder throughout history how many young men have lost their lives defending an empire that some grandiose leader still thought that they could hang on to, but the writing was on the wall and they couldn't. And in this case, as Richard said, Russia's ambitions are not even in the same zip code as the reality of what they have. But I mean, Richard, talking about that, that's interesting what you say about the prospects for diplomacy coming up later this year. The reality with Ukraine is that if they even come to some kind of border that is a border that Ukraine doesn't love and Russian doesn't love,

the chances are that border is going to have to be protected for years and years to come. We know that the United States and Europe have spent a ton of money trying to give Ukraine everything it needs to defend its territory. What are the discussions that are taking place about the long term of this? Because there are going to need to be budgets from the United States and Europe for years, as far as I can see, protecting what is effectively a frozen border. You're absolutely right. Even the optimists don't think there's going to be a formal peace pact with it, with mutually expected borders. That's not on. At best, you'll get some kind of a ceasefire. De facto, maybe a non-belligerency agreement.

Even that'll take time. Both sides will continue to arm. So you're right. I think you're looking at long-term military help. You're probably looking at some sort of de facto rather than de jure NATO guarantee. You're probably looking at special economic help from the European country. So all that's going to be part of it. Those conversations have begun. And the interesting thing on the other side is whether the Russians are beginning to prepare for it. Remember Pat Moynihan, when he talked about what was going on in this country, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, talked about defining deviancy down. I think the thing to look here is whether the Russians begin to define success down.

And in my last meetings with Russian officials, they spent almost all their time talking about the rights of Russians living in Ukraine. And that was interesting to me. That suggested to me that just maybe, maybe I'm reading too much into this, they were beginning to be, that's what Putin is going to claim is a great success. He knows he can't get the territory back. He knows he can't eliminate Ukraine. Just maybe he's beginning to prepare the ground for a lesser definition of success. I don't know. But I would also just watch what the Russians are saying and not saying. All right. Thank you so much.

So as we appreciate it, go next. I'd say that for you. Thank you, Joe. It's heartfelt. And I'm so excited about the next just like everybody here. And when's the next major golf tournament? Is it the Open? Your golf correspondent doesn't have the calendar in front of him. I don't know.

When's the British Open? It's usually June. June? Yeah, June. That's got to be soon. God, you know, that's really pathetic. You've got to know these stuff. You've got four tournaments to know.

Hey, Katty, do you know when the Open is? I think it's in Liverpool again this year. I think it's in Manchester on June the 32nd. It doesn't exist. It's 3.45 p.m. All right. That's it. Katty, I was about to make you our new golf correspondent, but no.

No, it's July the 16th. John is open, apparently. But no, it's July 16th. John is open, apparently. I'm looking it up. Royal Liverpool. So I would guess then that the U.S. Open must be next. When's the U.S. Open? Wonderful. And June?

PGA will be last. I think that's in early June, maybe. That feels right. It's Father's Day weekend. There you go. It's in L.A. this year. Richard, if you could do us a favor, brush up on the dates for the four majors if you want this position and also the impact on global trade of quantitative easing. If you could do those two things, that would be great. U.S. Open is middle of June. Middle of June.

I want to go to the British Open one. I don't go to golf tournaments, but I want to go. I want to be like 50 raining, you know, rain going sideways, wind about, you know, 40 miles an hour. Cucumber sandwiches. Cucumber sandwiches. Just like Caddy. Caddy tells us. She'll tell us

what we have to do there because she knows so much about golf all right mika we'll send it back to you hi yeah i'm gonna tell you new york city and the comcast tower if we can just pretend this segment never existed that would be helpful coming up the latest from the 2024 campaign trail. I left a part of myself in that set. We're going to go live to New Hampshire ahead of Donald Trump's town hall event. Plus, a star-studded lineup of Hollywood heavyweights. Joe's sit down with Tyler Perry and Shonda Rimes. Also, Amelia Estevez joins us live in studio. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. Welcome back to Morning Joe. It's Tuesday, May 9th, a beautiful shot of the White House as the sun is up over Washington. On this Tuesday morning, ahead this hour, we have the latest

on two cases involving former President Donald Trump. First, an important ruling from the Manhattan judge in his criminal trial. The other, his civil rape trial, where lawyers for his accuser closed out their case using Donald Trump's own words against him. Meanwhile, an exiled member of the Republican Party is going after the former president. We'll show you Liz Cheney's new attack ad. Eddie Glaude Jr., Reverend Al Sharpton, Katty Kaye still with us and joining the conversation. We have the host of the podcast on Brand with Donnie Deutsch. Donnie Deutsch. And he's in gangster stripes this morning.

He's very good. Yes. Yes. I'm not a fan. Remember when he wore the Baby Gap t-shirts, Willie? I miss those. He wears those socially. He dresses up on the air.

He still has the Baby Gap. You pulled me aside one day. You said, son, it's not the way to dress on television. And ever since then, I've kind of just been, you know, kind of. I don't know that that was me. I think it was Mika who said, don't ever wear that on set. It's usually how things go around here. Yeah.

Some funny people are like, Mika, Mika, Mika. And it's like you read those things like they're going, poor Mika. And all the guys here are like, poor Mika. She runs the place. Oh, you know, I was watching this morning before I came out. And it's amazing the lack of decorum when she's not here. It's a mess. It goes off the rails.

I mean, it was unlike the guys. Get to the news. It's terrible. And where's Mika? And it's just, it's the anchor. She is. She is. Too, too charlie.

The anchor. Terrible, terrible television. She won't come down from her penthouse. Can't blame anchor. It's she she is. She is Charlie. The anchor. She won't come down from her her penthouse. Can't blame her. Commerce billing. I got to say, though, I just want to read this text I got from a real smart guy. OK. One of the smartest guys. He didn't go to school in Tuscaloosa, but he's smart anyway. David Remnick award winning everything with a New Yorker. And what does he say? He's really smart, isn't he, Mika? Yes, he is. No, I have immense respect for David.

This is what he says about the last segment that you were so critical of. The last 15 minutes on the Knicks has been electrifying television. Put that in a promo. Boom. Electrifying television. As long as we're talking about sports. I'm going to put the New Yorker. The New Yorker electrifying.

Now, the New Yorker had the best review of us, Mika, at the very beginning. Uh-oh. Yeah. Appallingly entertaining. Is that not a thing? Yes, ma'am. Joe. Yes, ma'am.

He's making fun of you. I'm sorry. I don't think he is. He's a sports guy. Oh, yes, ma'am. He's making fun of you. I'm sorry. I don't think he is. He's a sports guy. Oh, yes, he is. Remnick knows the Knicks. That was sarcasm and it was not electrifying. It was everything but.

David knows his sports. Well, he's making fun of me. Yeah, he is. Big time. Listen, you know what I want to do? I want to do five minutes. Like Reed's is dead. On my American floor, I want to put it right there. And I want to do five minutes. We're like Regis dead. I'm an American.

I want to put it right there. And I want to do five minutes like Regis. By the way, can we just talk about Regis? How great is that guy? Was Regis not the greatest? The late great. I can't even believe he's gone. I'm always thinking I want to call Regis, see what's up.

And incredibly kind. What a nice man. The best. Sweetheart. Talented broadcaster. Great guy. regis see what's up and incredibly kind what a nice nice man you know sweetheart talented broadcaster great guy but yeah that top of that show when he and kathy lee were doing it or with kelly come on and yeah talk about the meal he had at patsy's the night before and he ran into tony danza and it was great it was great we love regis you know people always ask they do i was like where did you get the idea from? And what's that morning, Joe?

And da, da, da, da, da. I said, I just want all three hours to be like the first five minutes of Regis' show. Yeah. Just people talking, Ralph, about what people want to talk about. Regis, man, he was a trendsetter. He was. And he made you feel like he really was into just everyday talking, nothing heavy, nothing deep. But we can only do that when mommy's not home.

When mommy's home, we watch what we're doing. Exactly. Chris used to call me that. No. Hey, Joe, you're not Regis, though. I mean, it's a good show, but we need to move on with the news. I knew Jack Kennedy. You are no Jack Kennedy. Sorry.

Just saying. You're, you know, no. No. Just took out the filet knife. It's a big no. Wow. Is that your tie? Yeah.

Come on. That was like the scene in Succession with Shiv and the husband the other night. I mean, just ripping it just to the core. I didn't see the last one. I can't wait to see it. But still, I've't see the last one. I can't wait to see it. But still, I've got to say, like one of the one of just one of the great lines in TV history. You're not serious people. I love you, but you're not serious.

You're not serious. OK, I got to say, too, I'm just going to say, have we said this on the air yet? Make his conspiracy theory. She doesn't think Logan Roy is dead. They haven't shown him. she doesn't think Logan Roy is dead. No, definitely not. They haven't shown him. By the way, it's been four episodes since he supposedly died. They still haven't buried him.

As Jeff Kepnes said, this guy ain't Jewish, obviously. Like, he's just, he's, they haven't buried him. No. We're four episodes in. They never show his body. The only person who supposedly sees it is Roman Roy, Roy, who says he's acting like he's not dead. Quit saying he's dead. Quit saying he's dead.

No, the one that saw him was Alan Rock, the brother. Yeah, but maybe Alan's in on it, too. They're all over. Yeah, you saw it. There was a little piece of his torso in the airplane just for a second. But that was it. We'll see. We'll see.

I will say this. Can we just say for people who haven't seen this yet? Like, I'd ruin it for everybody. It's just not the same show without him. It's not even close to the same show without him. You know what's amazing? How Madison Avenue just bastardizes everything. Now he's in McDonald's commercials.

Yeah. He's doing like six voiceovers. Now, come on, man. Don't judge him. Sometimes things are just too hot. Leave it alone. Let him be who he is, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. Let him be who he is. All right.