Morning Joe - Morning Joe 6/10/25

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Protests over ICE raids continue in Los Angeles

Are you going to deploy Marines in California? Well, see what happens. I mean, I think we have it very well under control. I think it would have been a very bad situation. It was heading in the wrong direction. It's now heading in the right direction. And we hope to have the support of Gavin because Gavin is a big beneficiary as we straighten out his problems.

I mean, his state is a mess. And I'd like to get somebody involved in the rail because, look, personally, it should have never been built because you can fly there for $2. And what are you doing? They're doing that. You could drive. You could do lots of different things. President Trump pivoting to the topic of high-speed rail after being asked about deploying Marines

to California. Hours after that statement, the Pentagon activated hundreds of Marines, sending them to the LA area. We're gonna bring you the latest from Southern California in just a moment. Also ahead, HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has removed all members of the CDC's Independent Vaccine Advisory Committee,

something he told a Republican senator he would not do prior to his confirmation hearings. Plus, Russia just launched one of its largest air attacks on the capital of Ukraine, which followed a massive drone strike yesterday. And Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is set to testify before multiple congressional panels this week. It comes as the White House is struggling to hire senior

advisers for the former Fox News host. We'll dig into that new reporting. Good morning and welcome to Morning Show. It is Tuesday, June 10th. Along with Willie and me, we have the co-host of our fourth hour, contributing writer at

the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire. MSNBC contributor Mike Barnicle and politics bureau chief and senior political columnist for Politico, Jonathan Martin. And Willie, we begin and continue to follow the news out of Los Angeles. Yeah, and it's not just high-speed rail. There are protests that continue throughout downtown Los Angeles, overnight this time less violent than what we saw over the weekend. Fewer clashes reported yesterday with law enforcement as groups marched across the city

in protest of the Trump administration's immigration raids. Despite that, the White House deployed another 2,000 National Guard troops, bringing the total number to 4,700 Marines also were activated. California Governor Gavin Newsom says the deployment of troops is unnecessary and only sows more fear and anger. He's also calling the president's decision to mobilize the Marines illegal, saying he will file a lawsuit against that move, just like he did for the National Guard troops yesterday.

In that lawsuit, the state of California alleges the Trump administration violated both federal law and the Constitution, claiming the Defense Department did not communicate directly with the governor's office about deploying troops. President Trump, however, told reporters yesterday he does not regret sending in the National Guard. We stopped it. We were able to make it much better. But it still looked pretty bad.

And in watching clips last night, people were saying, this is really a big problem. And until we went in, if we didn't do the job, that place would be burning down, just like the houses burned down. There's so many different places where we let it burn. We want it to be politically correct. We want to be politically correct. We want it to be

nice. We want to be nice to the criminal. And what you're doing is destroying the fabric of our life in this country. Now we did the right thing. We'll have much more on the lawsuit when California's Attorney General Rob Bonta joins us a little bit later this morning. Joining us now from Los Angeles, NBC News correspondent, Camila Bernal. Camila, good morning. So we are hearing it was a little quieter overnight than it's been for the last several days in the streets of Los Angeles. Is that what you've been seeing? It is, Willie. Good morning. And we could be entering day five of protests, but things are very calm right now as we ended day four of protests. It always tends to end with police declaring

an unlawful assembly, meaning everyone has to be cleared out or else they're going to get arrested. So you have more peaceful streets right now. It's obviously three in the morning here in Los Angeles. There is still a large police presence in certain areas in downtown LA, and there is a lot of cleanup to do here. Business owners and of course local officials because there was a lot of looting overnight and when you do walk around some of the streets in downtown LA, you're going to see a lot of the graffiti. But local officials saying that they are going

to investigate all of this and likely arrest people in the coming days as they continue to look through surveillance video and look through to see who exactly is responsible for the looting. But it is really important to point out that throughout the day, mostly peaceful protesters, a lot of people who have gone out to try to get their voices heard, but who have been mostly peaceful. And some of these demonstrators even reporting trying to stop some of the people who are wanting to

escalate things. There's usually one or two people or a group of people that just want to get more violent and want to get things escalated. And that's when you see those police officers coming in with the flashbangs and coming in with the tear gas, trying to disperse the crowds. That's when you see sort of the stampedes of people trying to get out of the way of these officers. Mayor Karen Bass, in the meantime, pleading with the federal government to stop the ICE raids.

That's really at the center of this issue, at the center of the protests, because so many here in Los Angeles of minority descent, so many here of Latino or Hispanic descents, and people who are undocumented. That is just the fabric of Los Angeles. So a lot of people saying, these are our friends, these are our neighbors who are getting separated from their families. Yesterday we heard from family members of those who were detained by ICE during the raids here in Los Angeles, and they were in tears pleading with federal authorities for the release of their family members for just essentially figuring out where

they even are because many of them have not even been able to talk to their family members who have been detained by ICE. So that really is the center of these protests, the center of this issue and why a lot of people here in Los Angeles don't want to see the National Guard and don't want to see the Marines So again less violent protests yesterday We're waiting to see what happens today as this all continues to unfold here in Los Angeles So Camila as I mentioned 2,000 more National Guard troops now being sent in by the Trump administration The governor the mayor even the LAPD itself says the LAPD

can handle what is in the streets of LA right now. We don't need the National Guard. So from your reporting and from what you've seen, what exactly are the National Guard troops who've been deployed, because not all of them are out and deployed, what are they doing in this operation? Yeah, so most of them are guarding a lot of these federal buildings and standing in front of the buildings that are run by the federal government. So you have a lot of protesters who approach these areas who want to be there to protest

essentially in front of them. But you do really have LAPD and the sheriff's office really taking charge and trying to figure out they're sort of caught in the middle and trying to keep the order. But local officials, like you mentioned, saying that the LAPD and the sheriff's office, they are big police and sheriff's departments. They can handle these kinds of protests. I've been out in the streets for multiple protests here in downtown LA. You usually end up on the 101 freeway because it's so close to the

downtown area. So it's really not the first time that you see this sort of protest in Los Angeles. It obviously has escalated because of the politics behind all of this and the back and forth between the federal government and local officials. But it's not necessarily uncommon to see these protests in LA and in downtown LA. And of course, they do cause some disruption in the area. But it's not something that the LAPD hasn't seen before, and it's not something that the Sheriff's Department hasn't dealt with before, Willie. NBC's Camila Bernal reporting from Los Angeles this morning. Camila, thanks so much.

Let's bring in retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Mark Hurtling. His military career spans more than three decades of service, including as the commanding general of the United States Army Europe and the seventh army general. It's always good to talk to you when I say you hear National Guard being sent in by the president, when you hear about Marines, active duty Marines being called up to a civil disobedience, to protest, to demonstrations in the streets. What does that trigger for you in your mind as a general? It triggers a couple of things, Willie, and it's a great question because we keep using

the word and the word that's being headlined is deployment of troops. They're deploying troops, whether it's the Guard or the Marines to Los Angeles. Is that a legal thing to do that the President can do that? Yes, it is. The President can deploy soldiers or Marines anywhere. The fact that we have to look at is what is the mission set? What are they attempting to do? And you hit this very well in your conversation just now.

What's their job? The National Guard's job, unless it's under the Insurrection Act, Now, what's their job? The National Guard's job, unless it's under the Insurrection Act, is to provide support for civilian authorities. In fact, that's the mission set, which means they guard buildings. That's okay. Why the White House has deployed Marines,

I can only venture to say it's because they want to use the intimidation factor of Marines being there. But Marines can't do anything more than provide support to civilian authorities either. And truthfully, Marines don't train in that mission set. So that's very dangerous. When you pull Marines into that area, as you saw, there's a couple of pictures of Marines training with the shields and the batons. That's likely the first time they've ever touched those kinds of equipment. When you put them up against local citizens,

civilians within the Los Angeles area, they're going to be anxious. Let's use that word as opposed to scared. They're facing their fellow citizens and they haven't been trained in the right way that police use to disperse crowds or push crowds around. They can do the stomp and drag, as they call it, with batons and shields, but that really doesn't have an effect.

Guarding buildings, fine. That's a legal order. But it's truthfully, the tipping point is going to be if the president calls an insurrection act, which is defined as trying to overthrow the government. We haven't seen any indicators of that yet. That's when it's going to become dangerous. He can deploy troops to support civilian authorities, but they don't arrest, they don't touch,

they don't handle people. Secretary Hegseth put out a tweet yesterday that said something to the effect that we're now deploying Marines and they're gonna round up these criminals. I'm telling you, if that happens, that's an illegal act. So General, let's talk about that dynamic. You just very effectively pointed out how this is being an unfamiliar situation for

Marines, some of them anxious, never been in a place like this. Also, look, the sight of these Marines, these National Guard members is evocative. It's provocative for those who are there protesting, who see military, US military on the streets of an American city. Tensions could certainly rise. What is your fear then of an escalation? If something just goes wrong, one side or the other, somebody makes a mistake, and then suddenly we're in a whole new place.

Yeah, I'm anxious about it, Jonathan. It could happen. Anytime you put people with guns or batons in front of people who are angry or upset about a situation, there's always, and it's a mob, there's always the potential for higher levels of damage. That concerns me, but what also concerns me is the fact that you're putting uniform police, or excuse me, uniform military, both National Guard and Marines, alongside federal workers, the ICE agents, the FBI agents, and then you put a third factor in, the LA police who are just

trying to do their job. So it is the Northern Command commanders requirement to coordinate all this with all of the civilian agencies, the police, the FBI, the ICE agents. And that four-star general really has to say, what am I trying to do here? What's the mission set? What are the rules of engagement? Who's doing what to who? It's a lot more complicated than just putting forces there.

And there are indicators out of the White House right now that they have not done a very good job from the Defense Department in providing rules of engagement to these military personnel. The last thing I'll say is you're seeing ICE agents and others with masks on. You're not going to have military with masks, but they are going to be dressed the same way as many of these militarized police forces. So there's going to be confusion, and it's also contributing to a damage of the institution of the military, which is supposed to defend against outside agitators, enemies of the country. And instead, we're putting them face to face with civilians who are using their

First Amendment right to protest and use free speech. General Hurtling, first of all, happy birthday to you and the Army, 250 years old today. Secondly, could we talk about the cost of what's going on? You have literally a battalion of Marines being transported from 29 Palms to downtown Los Angeles. That's a difference of about 150 miles. I don't know how they got there, but they're there. Secondly, when they're there,

along with the National Guard, none of them, not combat-ready Marines, not the National Guard weekend people, none of them have the power to use the three magic words that are magic in calming things down in the city, those words are you're under arrest. What is their role? What is the cost of having them there?

Well, when you either mobilize and deploy National Guard armaments, the government's paying for a mission they didn't anticipate. When they transfer National Guard soldiers from Title 32 to Title 10, I don't want to get into that craziness, it costs the federal government money, especially when the state says we don't need them. So the National Guard is all being paid for by Washington, D.C., and our taxes. The Marines, I mean, they're serving every day. If they're active component Marines, then it's just a transfer. And I know 29 pounds well, because I used to serve at Fort Irwin, California, which

is just across the road in the middle of the desert where we do our training. It's not tough to move military forces anywhere, but when they get there, again, are they being used the right way? Are they given a mission? Are they given rules of engagements? Are they coordinated with the right way? Are they given a mission? Are they given rules of engagement? Are they coordinated with the other federal agency? Those are all parts of the support to civilian authorities. But you bring up a very good point is how much is this costing?

I'd suggest it's costing a lot because you're not only transporting and trying to house, even though we saw some soldiers sleeping on the floor in various buildings last night that obviously didn't have a place to stay, but you're also feeding them and caring for them while they are deployed. That's very tough. There's money involved with that. It's a deployment that's unplanned for. Yeah, Barnacle mentioned the Army. We're going to be talking to General Hurdling about the 250th birthday celebration that

is taking place this Saturday in just a moment. There's some other issues with that as well. But President Trump is endorsing the idea of arresting California Governor Gavin Newsom. Trump made the comment to reporters yesterday following his border czar Tom Homan's statement that anyone who impedes ICE efforts in Los Angeles would be arrested. Gavin Newsom is, he's daring Tom Homan to come and arrest him. Should he do it? I would do it if I were Tom.

I think it's great. to come and arrest him. Should he do it? I would do it if I were Tom. I think it's great. Of course, Gavin likes to publicity, but I think it would be a great thing. Jaymart, yeah, you're, yeah, yeah, a lot of guys going, yeah, me, yeah, me, you. I don't know. It's just words at this point,

but not great language at a time like this, I guess. He's responding like he's being asked if, you know, he wants to get Chinese food tonight. I would do it, you know. I mean, it's so flippant. It's so unserious. It's not on the level. He doesn't want Gavin Newsom to actually be arrested. He's doing WWF stuff here. You know that. I know that. We all know

that. But the problem is he's the President of the United States and he's the Commander-in-Chief. I'm less worried about him popping off on the White House south lawn and saying, arrest Gavin, when we all know it's BS. I'm more concerned about the fact that he's deploying active duty Marines to an American city. This is so far beyond the pale. It is so wildly uncalled for. And also politically, it is deeply challenging because if you are the Democrats, as the saying goes, if you're explaining, you're losing. It's a hell of a lot easier to say, there's people burning American flags and destroying cars in an American city and we're going to crack down and restore order. That's a lot easier message than saying, well, you know, section 403 of U.S. code says that

you can't actually get, if you say those words, it's already over. You're already losing. So it's a deeply challenging issue on the politics for Democrats, but it's sobering, I think, for all of us as Americans. Yeah, front page of your newspaper, The New York Times, Tyler Pager's piece, Trump leaps at chance for clash in California. He thinks as a rule that he's winning if we're talking about immigration. Elon who?

Illegal immigration. Elon who never heard of him. Doesn't really have any. Right. Or chaos in American cities. He feels like that is really good ground for him to be fighting on. And he says, you got people, look at the picture. We just heard that.

He said, you saw clips of police cars burning and people spitting on American flags. He thinks he's winning this argument. The whole energy for Trump and Trumpism is the sense that things have gone too far in this country. It's a vague idea of it's just all too much. And you can use the word, whoa, gizmo or whatever. But really it's the sense of it's gone too far. And boy, isn't this the perfect illustration of what Trump has been living off of for, by the way,

10 years this month. He went down the escalator, now it's his candidacy. 10 years he's been talking about precisely these kinds of issues. And for him, it's a gift in his lap. It's immigration, which we talk about all the time on the show is his it's that's his reflex to go back to immigration when he feels like he needs to change the subject but Mika it's also this is a fight he's been spoiling for

for a long time it is a he always needs a foil. California governor Gavin Newsom is a good foil for this moment it's a blue state Newsom's a controversial figure to those on the right this is a a fight that he wants, and he's always been one to talk about deploying American troops on the streets of American cities. Let's remember, it was June of 2020, right about five years ago, where he mused about the Insurrection Act because of the protests

that followed the George Floyd murder, the gatherings at Lafayette Park that he had dispersed with federal law enforcement. He even asked the Defense Department then if he could have federal troops shoot American protesters in the legs. That would be a way to end this. He was told no. Defense Secretary Esper, Chair and Joint Chiefs of Staff Milley, said, absolutely not.

I don't think there's a lot of people in his orbit now by design who would tell him no All right still ahead on morning Joe. We're gonna bring in the latest on the war in Ukraine as Russia launches a massive strike in Kiev plus as we mentioned preparations are now underway for this weekend's army parade in Washington DC will dig into those details and the, the Morning Joe podcast is available each weekday featuring our full conversations and analysis. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You're watching Morning Joe. We're back in 90 seconds. Segilary is making headlines this morning. The Japanese military says Chinese warships are venturing into new waterways amid a flurry of military exercises in the Pacific.

A Chinese aircraft carrier and at least seven other Navy ships were operating east of Iwo Jima for the first time. According to the Wall Street Journal, the region is considered strategically vital in any potential conflict with the United States. A new study is tracking the impact of a 2010 decision by the Supreme Court that limited the ability of state and local governments to regulate firearms. The findings show gun deaths of children and teenagers rose significantly in states that enacted more permissive firearm laws. According to the New York Times,

in states that maintained stricter laws, firearm deaths were stable after the ruling, and in some states even declined. And officials in Washington are stepping up security ahead of Saturday's celebration marking the founding of the United States Army 250 years ago. Thousands of people are expected to attend a massive military parade and festival along

the National Mall. Battle tanks and fighting vehicles are being shipped to the nation's capital by the dozen. The event coincides with President Trump's 79th birthday on Saturday and will cost up to $45 million. Some streets around Washington will be closed for four days. General Hurtling, so Saturday is the 250th anniversary, the birthday of the United States Army, a day, of course, worthy of celebration. I remember your friend and ours, Jack Jacobs, Colonel Jacobs, the Medal of Honor recipient,

saying, we're not at tanks in the street country, saying that over the years in the past, but on Saturday we will be. How are you feeling about it? Well, the 250th, Willie, for the audience, is a critical event for the U.S. Army. It's not only 250 years, but that coincides with a year before our country was declared a nation. So our Army is older than our country. It was originally the Continental Army. And I agree with Colonel Jacobs that I'm all for celebrating soldiers, and there's going to be a lot of soldiers at this parade. I'm personally, truth be told, I'm not a parade kind of guy,

to be honest with you. I hate parades, even when I was a cadet at West Point. But this is an indication of mission creep, foisted upon the Army, I think, by the politicians. Because what we're seeing is an event that was going to be static displays at the mall, soldiers marching at downtown, has now been turned into a very high-profile event and as you see as you're going over all those vehicles you know Mike Barnicle asked before how much is this going to cost it's going to cost a lot not only are those vehicles used a lot have they been transported from different military bases but as you can see looking at those tanks and Bradleys

that you're showing right now they they've all been freshly painted. The last time a bunch of tanks were brought to Washington, DC, it was at a last-minute time frame, and they looked bad. I mean, they were not a good reflection of the Army. So obviously, the commanders and the soldiers who take a great deal of pride in their vehicles want them to be looking well. And, you know, that's created more cost other than the train load and the railhead and the helicopters are going to be flying overhead and the fuel that's going to be used and the support for the almost 8,000 soldiers that are going to be marching inside of that column with the other vehicles to represent wars that the nation has fought

in in different period dress and uniforms. It was a good idea by the army to celebrate this and use it as a recruiting tool. It's generated a lot more interest because of the connection with the president's birthday, that's for sure. Yeah, and updated estimates on cost, 50, 60 million dollars, perhaps more than that because of the streets of Washington likely gonna need to be repaved and fixed because these tanks, of course, are so heavy.

And we should, you know, certainly this comes, Mika, just days after, you know, we're amid what we're seeing in Los Angeles about American troops there. I think that's triggering for a lot of people. And we reported on this last week, but it's worth repeating that the Army is not the only branch of service celebrating a 250th birthday this year. The Navy is doing so in October, the Marines in November, but neither of them are getting

a parade in Washington. Only the Army, only because its birthday coincides with that of President Trump. Well, we'll be following that. There's also the war in Ukraine. And overnight, Ukrainian officials reported a massive attack by Moscow targeting the port city of Odessa and the capital, Kiev. These strikes followed what Ukraine described as the largest drone assault of the war so far, which occurred the day before. This morning, explosions rocked Kyiv, sparking fires in residential neighborhoods.

Video footage from the city shows blasts lighting up the skyline. It's still unclear how many people have been injured in this latest wave of attacks. General Hurdling, your comments, your thoughts on this war that the president said he could end so easily. It continues. Well, first, if you don't mind, Mika, I'd like to address the strikes, because what you're seeing is Russia targeting the key population centers with over 2 million people, three in the case of Odessa. At the same time, you're seeing Ukraine striking targets that are in the middle of nowhere,

but are strategically significant, like the airfields, the oil refineries, the places that support the military. It's the difference between a criminal activity and a fact that one nation, Ukraine, is fighting for its survival hitting military targets. Yeah, it is a last-ditch effort by the Russians. They know they're in bad shape.

Their economy is in very bad shape. And they are trying to do a last-ditch effort to perhaps set up the potential for gaining an advantage in a peace talk. I personally don't think they're going to get that. I think the will of the Ukrainian people is still strong. But again, I just come back to it's obvious what the Russians are targeting. They're targeting civilian infrastructure, capital cities of different oblasts in Ukraine, as well as the civilians that live in those cities, not the military.

Jay Mark, you wrote a piece we talked about on the show yesterday from Politico Magazine as the civilians that live in those cities, not the military. Jay Mark, you wrote a piece we talked about on the show yesterday from Politico magazine about some Republican senators. There is a little caucus trying at least to push President Trump away or drive a wedge between him and Vladimir Putin and say, look what he's doing. If this is retaliation for the drone attack that was 18 months in the planning by the Ukrainians that took out planes, military planes. The retaliation is against civilian targets as the general says. So what are the what's the case that these Republican

senators are making to the president? We have to punish Putin and hold him accountable so that we can get him to the negotiating table with more leverage and the way you do that is is you basically drain his economy and you do that by barring Russia from selling oil and gas to other countries and that way you'll make Putin desperate for a peace deal and get him to give the best possible deal to the Ukrainians. One small problem, Trump doesn't want to take punitive steps toward Vladimir Putin. He just wants the war to end and he really views both sides as equally culpable here. And you can tell him that it's civilians versus military targets until you're blue in the

face, Willie. He just sees violence on both sides. And I'll say that over and over again. With the German Chancellor last week, he was asked about the sanctions bill and he actually floated the idea of taking steps against both sides if they don't come to the negotiating table. So I'm just skeptical that he's ever gonna sign off on this bill. And frankly, I think ultimately it's gonna come down to does John Thune wanna bring up

a bill that Donald Trump has not blessed? And the answer right now is almost certainly no. All right. Retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Mark Hurdling. Thank you very much for your analysis and insights this morning, we appreciate it. And coming up on Morning Joe, Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has removed every member of a vaccine advisory committee

saying that this will quote, reestablish public confidence in vaccine science. NBC News medical contributor, Dr. Vin Gupta, will join us for the look at the impact this decision could have on Americans. That's straight ahead on Morning Joe. 36 past the hour. Welcome back. Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is dismissing all 17 members

of the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices. The panel acts as a key advisor to the CDC. It assesses the safety and clinical need for vaccines across the country. Insurance companies and government assistance programs are required to cover vaccines recommended by the panel. Secretary Kennedy announced the move in an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal yesterday, saying this will restore public confidence, as some of the members he is relieving of duty are Biden administration appointees.

Officials say the panel will still meet as scheduled at the end of the month, but it's unclear when the new members will be selected. Let's bring in NBC News medical contributor Dr. Vin Gupta. Dr. Gupta, I guess, first of all, what might be the impact of this move? And was there any other reason that these people could have been dismissed except for the fact that they were appointed by Biden? Short answer is no, Mika. You know, if it's still up,

and it was up two minutes ago, I encourage all your viewers to Google ACIP and the CDC. You'll go to the roster that's still live, I'm surprised it's live, probably for the next few hours. You can read the bios of the individuals currently on ACIP through end of June. These are professors of infectious diseases like Dr. Helen Chu at the University of Washington. They're professors of epidemiology like Dr. Jane Zucker at SUNY Downstate, not far from you. In no way. There are conflicts. Kennedy in his piece at the Wall Street Journal said that there was conflicts of interest, that somehow these individuals are in the pocket of

pharma. That's not true. They have to submit very rigorous conflicts of interest forms that are scrutinized. They cannot hold stock in advisory committees, anything to do with vaccine manufacturers. So there is no relationship between any of these individuals and their credentials in a conflict of interest, number one. But to your point, what is this gonna mean? I'm very close to the American Academy of Pediatrics, and we just had a town hall in this conversation in the wake of his announcements over the last few weeks.

What does this rolling thunder set of announcements make it mean for public health? And it's pretty darn clear, no clinician likes the fact that he's doing what he's doing. He's doing exactly what he's been doing. Well, he's doing exactly what he's done for the last 20 years, which is reducing confidence in vaccines. But no clinician wants a lack of transparency and a lack of clear guidelines. That's not expert driven, and that's exactly what he's doing. Number one. Number two, he also knows that insurance not expert driven. And that's exactly what he's doing. Number one.

Number two, he also knows that insurance companies rely heavily, Medicaid relies heavily on what ACIP recommends. If ACIP says we need to get a flu booster or MMR every few years, they're going to have to cover it. It's actually statutory by law. So he knows what he's doing. He's actually undermining the very framework of how we get vaccines covered for the American people, including kids.

And he's going right at the heart of that. As you say, Dr. Gupta, this was all advertised. We knew who Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was, who he's been for the last several years, once a great conservationist, environmentalist, now guided in his public life by vaccine skepticism. So you started to get at it, but just for even parents watching at home, what could change in their relationship with their doctor, with their pediatrician and vaccines if this board comes in, we expect, filled with fellow vaccine skeptics? Well, Willie, you know, what I would say, number one, is look at the doctors, so-called doctors, that he has surrounded

himself with, RSK. These are former doctors who once practiced medicine, or doctors, in name only, who have never practiced the art of medicine at the bedside. So, why does that matter? If you don't have somebody that understands the consequences of something fundamental, like we're going to ruin the vaccine or the infrastructure for people to have access to vaccines. If you've never dealt with the consequences of caring for a patient, you're going to run

roughshod. You're not going to have accountability. And so that's the phenotype that I worry he is going to surround himself with in government and these types of committees really. What does that mean fundamentally? He has this ACIP, a revised ACIP, he can now appoint all new 17 members. He doesn't have to wait till 2028, which was the original deadline. They had to wait till 2028. Now he can do it tomorrow if he wanted to or in

July. The worry here is that this committee is powerful enough to completely revise the vaccine schedule for children. He can go on and say, or this new committee can say, you know what, we don't like the recommendations as they exist today, we're going to completely alter them. What does that mean for the everyday family? That means that once covered vaccines by insurance companies may go away. Unfortunately, that is part of the risk here, Willie. What I hope, and just to say, I hope insurance companies fundamentally rethink how they cover vaccines because they can no longer rely on ACIP or what the government says.

So this clearing out of the vaccine committee by RFK Jr. breaks a commitment he apparently made to Republican Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana. Here's what Senator Cassidy said was promised back in February before RFK Jr. was confirmed, followed then by the Senator's response to reporters yesterday when asked whether he now regrets his vote. He has also committed that he had worked within current vaccine approval and safety monitoring systems and not established parallel systems. It confirmed he will maintain the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices recommendations without changes. You can refer to our tweet on that.

I know you're asking different questions, but you're trying to give us something similar. And I'm not going to comment on that. So Senator Cassidy directing reporters to this statement on social media where he wrote, Of course, now the fear is that the ACIP will be filled up with people who know nothing about vaccines except suspicion. I've just spoken with Secretary Kennedy and I'll continue to talk with him to ensure this is not the case. So, J-Mark, that first clip we played with Senator Cassidy back on February 4th. What a difference four months makes. He got this guarantee before locking up Senator Cassidy's vote from RFK Jr. that he would not do what he apparently is ready to do. Which was the pivotal

vote we should tell folks, right, if it wasn't for Cassidy on the finance committee, he wouldn't have gotten confirmed. Cassidy's a doctor, by the way, we should remind people. He is a physician. And he was anguished over this vote. And I think it was very difficult. Classic challenge politics and principle colliding here, Willie. And he's facing a tough reelection and a deep red state. He already voted to impeach President Trump in 2021.

And I think he came to realize he wouldn't have a chance if he torpedoed Kennedy for the cabinet. And so he voted to confirm him. But before he did, he did get these assurances. But it turns out, like so many of the cabinet folks, those assurances weren't with the paper that they were written on. And they were only offering those assurances to get through the confirmation process. And now once they're free and once they're out of the purview of the Senate, they're going to do whatever they want to do. But just real fast on this, we're talking about the riots in LA, which is obviously

terrible politics for Democrats. This is a reminder though that Trump giveth and Trump taketh away. Trump will always do stuff and say stuff that is going to alienate people. So yes, it looks terrible to have people in the streets of LA burning American flags, burning cars, but yet Trump has his top appointee get rid of this board of serious doctors to replace it with quacks. It's just a reminder that Trump will always do stuff to keep Democrats in the game somehow. So Dr. Gupta, how concerned or worried should parents and pediatricians be

about the future access, availability, and approval of vaccines that are critical to children's health as well as adults? Mike, they should be worried. And unfortunately, until we start to see a different way for insurance companies to think about a different framework, Mike, in terms of how they cover vaccines, new vaccines, boosters, because right now it is heavily dependent on what Kennedy is hollowing out. ACIP, CDC, FDA recommendations that he has complete control over. He has a lot of authority and power. He is exercising it irresponsibly. But until insurance companies say, you know what, we're gonna think about this differently because by the way, prevention is cheaper. They think

about the bottom line, unfortunately. Prevention is cheaper than caring for a child in the hospital. That's how they're going to think about it. And in this case, they need to be thinking about the benefits of prevention, a political view on evidence, and we need to have a framework here that has not existed in decades, which is them ignoring fundamentally what is coming out of HHS. Mike, unless we see that start to happen, and I suspect we will, if we do not see that start to happen, access is coming out of HHS. Mike, unless we see that start to happen, and I suspect we will, if we do not see that start to happen, access is going to be significantly hampered. All right.

NBC News medical contributor Dr. Vin Gupta, thank you very much for your insights this morning. We appreciate it. Politico's Jonathan Martin, thank you as well. Always good to see you. And straight ahead on Morning Joe, we're going to get a look at Time Magazine's new cover story and investigative piece on the Trump administration. Plus a look back at the life and legacy of musician Sly Stone.

Morning Joe, we'll be right back. the sam bennett lays a big hit in the defensive zone to set up his nhl playoff leading fourteenth goal on a breakaway in the second period playing at home for the first time in the stanley cup final the florida Panthers pummeled the Edmonton Oilers in game three last night. The blowout turned into a brawl midway through the period. Eight players ejected. Like to see that in the Stanley Cup.

You don't always see it. Panthers go on to win the game six one. Now lead the series two games to one. The teams remain in South Florida for game four on Thursday night in this rematch, Jonathan, of last year's Stanley Cup final. Florida Panthers there they're big their physical they're a little bit dirty they are they pride themselves that they

drive me not say they've eliminated the Bruins a few times the playoffs last couple years there so so tough last night expert and Brad March and I will say fits in well with Florida other fans fans of the teams find him annoying to score a minute into the game. Set the tone But I will say, fits in well with Florida. Other fans, fans of other teams find him annoying too. Scored a minute into the game, set the tone immediately. This one was, when the Oilers cut it to 2-1, Florida scored a minute later.

3-1, 4-1, 5-1, they put, they poured it on. So they're up 2-1, and if you're Edmonton, remember last year in this series, Edmonton fell behind three games to none. One three straight, but then lost game seven. They lose tomorrow night, or this next game in Florida, fall down three to one again. That is a very tough task.

First of all, I love the Panthers. I love the way they play. They're unrelenting, and they do exactly what you're supposed to do in a critical playoff series like this for the Stanley Cup. They get the other team trying to play their game. The other team cannot play their game unless the other team is on the losing end.

They're very good at getting under the other team's skin. I'm rooting for Connor McDavid, the best player in the league to get a cup, but down to one. And a reminder, as we've discussed on this show, a Canadian team has not won the Stanley Cup since 1993. Edmonton Oilers are the hope this year. Montreal Canadiens did it back then.

Let's turn to Major League Baseball, the long-awaited debut for the game's top prospect at Fenway Park. The Boston crowd giving Roman Anthony a warm welcome as the 21 year old outfielder walked out for his first big league at bat. He did go 0 for 4 with a walk and an RBI ground out. That came in the ninth inning last night. He cost the Red Sox in the fifth a bit, letting a single roll under his glove in right field for a two-base error that led to an unearned run, giving the Rays a three-nothing lead. Tampa would go on to beat Boston 10-8 in 11 innings.

A little bit of a shaky debut. That's okay, Mike. 21-year-old Phenom. Boston fans, including those at this table, have been calling for him to be at Fenway for some time now. Yeah, it was overdue, his arrival at Fenway and his arrival on the roster batting. Fifth last night, he showed tremendous plate discipline for just 21 years of age, just recently 21 years of age. The line drive that he hit back to the pitch, he went off the bat at 111 miles per hour.

So he's got terrific bat speed. That would prove that he has terrific bat speed that would prove that he has terrific bat speed. He's going to be a really, really good major league baseball player. It just looks comfortable already. So smooth, John. Yeah, big guy, great command of the strike zone.

Had the highest average exit velocity of anyone in professional baseball this year. As a player at AAA, hitting the ball harder consistently, more than even major leaguers. Yeah, he didn't get hit last night. He's going to be fine. But it's also another heartbreaking late loss for this Red Sox team, which has had a season far of full of far too many of them hoping he's a shot in the arm up in Boston. Let's go to the West Coast.

The latest incredible catch by A's rookie Denzel Clark. Look at this. Clark scaling the wall. He hit a high last night. Half of his body over the wall, reaching over, robbing a home run in the first inning. That is just incredible. The climb is one thing, the reach is another, and to pull himself back to the right side of the wall. There he is. Look at that.

Recording the out. That is amazing. The Angels, though, did beat the A's seven to four. You know, it's a reminder, that is amazing. The Angels though did beat the A's, seven to four. You know, it's a reminder, baseball is probably the sport most played by young kids when they're young. And you play catch with your father and everything like that. And you think he can play baseball. You forget the level of athleticism involved

with some of these guys. That particular catch we just saw, that is amazing. Just the body language involved in it. To be able That particular catch we just saw. That is amazing. Just the body language involved in it. To be able to do that. Just incredible. Sort of reminds me of when Bo Jackson ran up the wall in Yankee Stadium. Yeah. Meanwhile in St. Louis, an outfield blunder gave a home run to the Toronto Blue Jays last night. Cardinals Victor Scott trying to make a play on a ball hit deep to center. Bounces off his... Oh no, oh come on now. That's the opposite of what we just saw.

Touch him off. From the A's. Bounces off his glove. That is a home run, because it went over the wall. Solo home run. The Jays wanted to beat the Cards, five to four. That got us old school baseball fans thinking about this moment in Cleveland. Jose Canseco playing, playing good seats still available,

playing for the Rangers. The ball bounces off his head, not his glove, bounces off his head, goes over the wall for a home run. Sorry, Jose. We had to cue that up and do it again. Yeah. Not many hands in the park there in Cleveland that day. That's Jose Kinseko.

And I'm going to have to take this moment. I saw a story in Bloomberg yesterday. Baseball speaks to the health of the game. TV ratings up on every national channel, up locally, attendance up record highs. Baseball thriving right now, despite all this talk about baseball fading away. Thriving at the moment, the rule changes really helped.

And this is another reason why, and you're gonna hear us say this a lot over the next year, there's a labor issue coming. Not the end of this season, but the end of next, that a lot of people are really worried about. If baseball goes away, if there's a strike issue coming, not the end of this season, but the end of next, that a lot of people are really worried about. If baseball goes away, if there's a strike or a lockout and their game's missed, that's gonna really be damaging to the sport in a way it may not recover.

They need to solve it now, build on this momentum. It's been a fun season, Mike. Great stars, the Cubs are good this year, the Tigers are good, you got some different teams popping up at the top of the divisions as well. And thanks to Theo Epstein and Rob Banford, the Commissioner of Baseball. Now you can go to a baseball game and be out of there within two hours and 45 minutes, rather than four, four fifteen, things like that.

You can get home before ten thirty at night after going to a game. God bless them. Or stay up with your kid and watch an entire game instead of having to send him to bed. That's a big deal.