Morning Joe - Morning Joe 6/12/23

Episode Date: June 12, 2023

Trump to appear in court Tuesday

He's not a victim here. He was totally wrong that he had the right to have those documents. Those documents are among the most sensitive secrets that the country has. They have to be in the custody of the archivist. He had no right to maintain them and retain them. And he kept them in a way at Mar-a-Lago that anyone who really cares about national security, their stomach would churn at it. Former Attorney General Bill Barr disputing Donald Trump's claims in the classified documents case. We'll go through the many new developments tied to the indictment and show you what the

former president had to say about it over the weekend. It comes as Trump's rivals for the 2024 Republican nomination rally to his defense. We'll have those comments. Some of them do. Some of them kind of do. Some equivocate. Some of them don't.

Some do and some don't. Sort of a mixed bag. Yeah. You know, it's all a sad. What is the strategy there? Sad, pathetic scene. Plus the latest from Ukraine, where the country's counteroffensive

is claiming small victories over Russian forces. Also ahead, an update on the I-95 collapse, a disaster that has shut down a section of one of the busiest highways in America. Good Lord. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Monday, June 12th. With us at the table, we have the host of Way Too Early, White House Bureau Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, professor at Princeton University, Eddie Glaude Jr., and the president of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass joins us. Richard has notified us, Jonathan, that there's so much news going on, we cannot talk about sports. Can't spare even a minute? Not even a minute to talk about what happened at Yankee Stadium

or the stadium as they call it. The Red Sox taking two of three from the Yankees. We don't have time to talk about that? We don't have time to talk about the fact that a Little League team beat a team with a payroll that's actually larger than Man City's. No. We don't have that time. No time to talk about beating

Garrett Cole, the Yankees ace, on Friday and coming back in the late innings yesterday? Listen, I would love to, but I find it hard to get past all of the excuses people are making for a former president stealing nuclear secrets. Oh, that. I mean, that is so bad. So no time to even talk about last night at all. Okay. No time to talk about that Red Sox win and series win.

But I understand. No, no, no. You guys are getting a little ahead of yourselves. Was it just one win that Red Sox win and series win. But I understand you guys are getting a little ahead of yourselves. Was it just one feeling better to two? We're going to get to the news in a second. But I just want to say about all of this stuff that you're talking about that we've been talking about all weekend, just a couple of things. OK, first of all, it appears it appears by his own words, by his own deeds, by his own actions that he stole nuclear secrets. Right.

So let's just break this down because there are people that are talking about Hillary. Well, what about Hillary? What about Biden? What about this? What about he stole nuclear secrets? Allegedly, is there a difference in his own words? And he knew what he was doing He's on tape and then he got it. They got him dead to right. He hit it. He lied to the FBI

And so everybody's like oh my god the republicans i'm not looking at the republic. I mean Do they real if they want? To harbor a fugitive politically that like stole nuclear secrets. Good luck. You're going to lose even more in 2024. Lose even more in 2024. And these people say, oh, we're going to commit acts of violence. OK.

Guess what? Guess what? Guess what happens? That's been tried before. Yeah. They're in jail or going to jail. So if you think you're intimidating anybody like FBI is just OK. They're so they said that they said that. OK. How many more do we have enough

jail cells? Yeah, we have enough jail cells. Right. So go ahead. We've seen this all before Jonathan Lemire. It went very badly for him on January the 6th. If they hate America so much that they want to if they want to overthrow the government, it doesn't work. You end up in jail, and the people who try, try to have a conspiracy conspiracy, in jail for 20 years, right?

And Republicans, they want to go down this path even more, harboring a guy politically who stole nuclear secrets and figured out what documents to steal that showed America's greatest weaknesses. Why did he do that, do you think? They talk about that like on the 19th hole while having I don't know. We don't know why, but it doesn't matter. He stole some of the worst stuff. And so they can do the what about. Listen, listen, listen.

You break my heart. You break my heart. Official newspaper of Morning Joe. That is really still you don't have to play to the dumbest readers that you have. You really don't. But anyway, so we're going to see a lot of that noise. But as one admiral said to me, you get ground noise and you get the signal. Ignore the ground noise, Joe. Focus on the signal. The signal is we have a guy as president who has committed the worst crimes in the White House and outside of the White House of any chief executive in the history of this republic and my feeling is if the republicans want to defend him if they want to completely destroy their party have at it we have seen this before as far as what happens when they defend him and this is the worst yet and yet a lot of

them are still still too stupid to realize they're just giving up 2024 by doing it. Yeah, now, federal authorities are certainly concerned about that noise. Trump's calls to first supporters to fight that rhetoric. Yeah, they are getting ready. They may have to arrest another 2,000 people, throw them in jail for the next 20 years. They're hardening the courthouse around Miami today in advance of the appearance tomorrow. So that is one certainly concern. But let's set that aside for the moment.

But the politics of it, you're right. This is, these classified documents, the material found within, is about as serious as it gets. It's the most sacred secrets the United States has about our own capabilities, about relationships with allies, about intelligence, about information collected from other nation's spies who now have to wonder if they can trust us with it. By the way, enemies caught on tape. Talking about it.

Talking about it. And the documents are stored in boxes at the Mar-a-Lago ballroom and bathroom. Next to a toilet. Literally next to a toilet. Was he going to flush them down the toilet? Next to a toilet. Were they moved in there? I don't know.

And yet, over these last few days, most Republicans rallying around him. Not all, but most. Including those who want to beat him for the nomination. This is their chance. This is their chance to finally get away from this unbelievably undemocratic person. Why would they? They didn't after January the 6th. I know.

He literally inspired a riot. And they didn't move January the 6th. I know literally this is a chance, a riot, and they didn't move away from them. And just I saw the CBS poll yesterday that a lot of people were freaking out. Oh, the Republicans. What do you expect? This is what they did after January the 6th. But there was one poll, Alex, I hope you have it. There's one poll that showed where the core of the Republican Party was, it was going to vote in primaries. How many people think that that stealing nuclear secrets is bad among the core? 30, only 36 percent. Yeah, but look at this. Wait, hold on, hold on.

Which means I'm not great math, but I think that means 64 percent of Donald Trump's Republican Party. They don't think it's a bad thing to steal nuclear secrets. 64%. Hey, good luck with that party. Good luck with I guess I got a couple of wigs that would like to talk to you. But Richard, that goes to the rest of the country. And this is what I've been saying till I'm blue in the face since 2017. You keep narrowing down your base until you have insurrectionist weirdos and freaks. And that's where we are. Everybody look, you're freaking out about what's going on. Look at that number. That is us. People who actually give a damn about a president of the United States who steals nuclear secrets and

then lies about it to the FBI and then lies about it when the FBI tries to retrieve nuclear secrets. Things that are not his. 80 percent. That is us. That is us. We are the majority and we will stay the majority as long as these insurrectionists, weirdos and freaks continue to say it's OK for Donald Trump to do whatever he wants to do, including, well, what Marco Rubio said back in 2016, 17, cause a severe counterintelligence threat to this country. That's what the Intel Committee led by Rubio said in, what, 2016 or 17. It's still the case now. Even more so. You and I are old enough to remember when the Republican Party used to stand for two things. One was strong national security. Right.

And the other was law and order. Yeah. What does this bring together? National security and law and order. It really does. And the idea that so many Republicans, including several of the people who want to be president of the United States, are not willing to take this on frontally. To me, it's again, it's yet another statement of what has happened to the GOP. Yeah. Which is something less than a grand old party as as as as a result. And we can argue the politics of it. We basically say this is not a winning formula, but just also it's just, to me, a tragic commentary on what has happened in this country,

that this could happen. And put aside the politics, just people just don't anymore stand up and say this is unacceptable. It's not a tough call. The thing is, they lose. Makes me feel sick. That's what I don't understand. This behavior has cost them the election. And now I think I need to say it. In 2017 and 2018 and 2019 and 2020 and 2021 and 2022 and 2023, this nuclear secret. This is their chance. They're cool with Trump stealing nuclear secrets. There goes 2024. And by the way, the National Review knows that.

A lot of other conservative outlets know that. They're like trying to beg their own base. Wake up, wake up, look what you're going to say. And you're right. Let's go to the law and order thing. What do conservatives what have conservatives mocked for 50 years? Social scientists saying, yes, yes, Johnny, he and a gang broke into the Neiman Marcus and they looted the store. But we don't need to look at that act. We need to look at all the things that they were victims of growing up. So it's not that led up to this. They this system is corrupt.

And so you cannot blame what Republicans are saying. Oh, poor Donald. Poor Donald. He's been set up. It's not his fault. They always look at what Joe Biden did. Look at what it's that. It's that old.

It's that old. Look at the bird. Look at the bird over there. Every time Bill Clinton got in trouble, our our good friend from Louisiana, look at the bird over there trying to distract. They're trying to do it with Donald Trump. And I guess that would work if you're talking about porn stars or Playboy bunnies. But somehow not as effective when you start talking about nuclear secrets.

Yeah. Partisanship, trumping, patriotism. Yeah. That 80 percent, Joe, you're right. That's who we are. That's us. But these folks, do you believe I want you to because I hear you. I'm hearing you loud and clear. Do they pose an existential threat to the country in jail? I mean, if they're going to commit violence, not in jail, if they're saying that they go. And as far as elections go, if if they're running around, I promise you, in the suburbs of Philly, if they're running around defending a man who stole nuclear secrets and wouldn't give it back and lied to his lawyer and lied to the FBI and lied to everybody around him and lied to the DOJ, not really good. That's not a 90-10 in the suburbs of Atlanta. That's not an 80-20 in the suburbs of Philly. That hurts him in the suburbs of Detroit. That hurts him in the suburbs of Detroit. That hurts him in the suburbs of Milwaukee.

All the places he needs to win back. This drives him even further away. And the Republican Party that get trashed in those areas because of abortion, because of January the 6th. You add this. My God, I promise you this morning there are Republicans in those states going, do we just pull up the tent stakes? Because we can't we can't take any more on board. So let's get to Chuck Rosenberg and Dave Ehrenberg, despite claims from Trump and his defenders that the indictment is a, quote, witch hunt. The charging document, as The New York Times writes, quote, did far more than merely lay out seven crimes against

the former president. The Times adds, quote, though the strength of Mr. Smith's case will ultimately be tested by Mr. Trump's lawyers, the evidence that the special counsel and his team assembled was abundant and varied. The indictment included photographs, a transcript of a recording of Mr. Trump, and, of course, the lawyer's notes, which were obtained through a highly unusual legal tactic of working around attorney-client privilege. On Fox News yesterday, Trump's own former Attorney General Bill Barr had a similar take and offered a damning prediction for the former president. I was shocked by the degree of sensitivity of these documents and how many there were, frankly.

If even half of it is true, then he's toast. I mean, it's a pretty — it's a very detailed indictment, and it's very, very damning. And this idea of presenting Trump as a victim here, a victim of a witch hunt, is ridiculous. Yes, he's been a victim in the past. Yes, his adversaries have obsessively pursued him with phony claims. And I've been at his side defending against them when he is a victim. But this is much different. He's not a victim here. He was totally wrong that he had the right to have those documents. Those documents are among the most sensitive secrets that the country has. They have to be in the custody of the archivist. He had no right to maintain them and retain them. And he kept them in a way

at Mar-a-Lago that anyone who really cares about national security, their stomach would churn at it. We can't forget here that this entire thing came about because of reckless conduct of the president. If he had just turned over the documents, which I think every other person in the country would have done, the government's documents, their official records, they're not his personal records. So it's important, again, always great to keep things in perspective. We see insurrectionists, weirdos and freaks defending the stealing of nuclear documents.

We understand, OK, they're weirdos, insurrectionists and freaks. We get that. You got that down? Got it. That's what they are. But you have Bill Barr, who defended him through everything, I think shamelessly defended him, was was was as bad of an attorney general as John Mitchell, if not worse, because it also lie in front of the Senate and the House to defend Donald Trump. He was shocked by what he took, said he's not a victim and said these were the most sensitive secrets this country has that he took. I heard that from other people. I don't want to reveal who they are that worked in the Trump administration that were very high up when it comes to national security, heard this weekend. They thought it was going to be bad. They could not imagine. They could not imagine they were this bad. I mean, just people who

worked for him that were absolutely stunned and shattered. You look at the National Review. I talked about the National Review. They defended him time and again. All this what about Hillary nonsense. Not this time. This is worse than we could have ever imagined. Andy McCarthy, a very tough, very smart conservative jurist. Andy also writing that this was this was terribly bad.

Trump's not a victim, that this this is just horrific. So, yes, yes, you have in some insurrectionist weirdos and freaks out there that are going to defend him. But there are also a lot of other strong conservative voices out there that understand. Patting nobody on the head because you steal nuclear secrets shouldn't be that hard to come to the conclusion. This is really bad. But there are people that are coming to that conclusion. There are. I talked to senior Democrats, Republicans alike over the weekend. It was unanimous. This was far worse than people anticipated, even though, of course, this has been a scandal that we've been living with now for a year or so. I mean, a lot of the Trumpists turn their back on Bill Barr when he refused to go along with January 6th. But we should remember, of course, that Bill Barr shaped the Mueller report, the role he played in the public opinion there.

But there are some Republicans who like Bill Barr or will listen to Bill Barr or those who are akin to Bill Barr who are deeply worried by this. We should note Barr gave that message on Fox News. That's a moment for conservatives to hear that. And it does speak to the seriousness of this matter. We should note Donald Trump responds to Bill Barr calling him weak, totally ineffective and a gutless pig. We're seeing it again. Again, can we all say in unison, only the best people, because for all you weirdos, freaks and insurrectionists that are tuning in to Morning Joe this morning, and there are some of you there. Hi, how are you? I can see you.

This is like romper room and I don't have to even hold up the mirror. I know who you are. Little Johnny. How are you? Little Donnie. Little Timmy. So even though they do that and talk that way, it's again, it's terrible. They know how horrible it is. And even those that are defending Donald Trump right now understand he put himself into

a corner. It's going to be pretty hard for him to get out. So let's get to the legal aspects of this. Let's bring in state attorney for Palm Beach County, Florida, Dave Ehrenberg and former U.S. attorney and senior FBI official Chuck Rosenberg. Chuck, I'll begin with you. First of all, having had the weekend to really take in the indictment and every aspect of it. What do you think the most concerning part of it is? Sure. Well, of course, it's the retention, the willful retention of highly classified information. But what makes this case prosecutable, what puts Mr. Trump at so much risk are the obstruction of justice charges.

Let me explain that, Mika. The federal prosecutors, all prosecutors always have to prove intent that an act was done willfully and intentionally and not by accident or mistake. When you obstruct the investigation, when you mislead your own attorney, when you urge your own attorney to mislead the FBI, all of that evinces, demonstrates intent. Had he just returned the stuff, let's say you find stuff in your house in Indiana like Mr. Pence or in your house in Delaware like Mr. Biden, and you notify the FBI and you cooperate with their investigation and you turn everything over and you are truthful with

them, there's no criminal case. But here, where you obstruct the underlying investigation, you demonstrate for the world and ultimately for a jury, Mika, your own intent. And that's what's that is what makes the willful retention prosecutable in a court of law where I believe Mr. Trump will ultimately face justice. Let me ask you, though, obviously a bizarre, a bizarre appointment for this judge. Can it? I mean, the fact that there are, I think, 15 different. Is she definitely the judge? Well, that's the first thing I want to ask. Is she definitely the judge when I, I mean, listen, this is, I looked it up last night

because, you know, I don't have much of a life. Mika thinks I'm a nerd by doing things like this. I want to read what the 11th Circuit said about this woman's decision earlier, said to create a special exception here would defy our nation's foundational principle that our lie applies to all, regardless of numbers, wealth or rank. The law is clear. We cannot write a rule, says the extremely conservative 11th Circuit of what the judge tried to do before that allows any subject of a search to block government investigations after exception of the warrant. Nor can we write a rule that only allows former presidents to do so. Either approach would be a

radical reordering, which is what they're accusing her of doing, a radical reordering of our case law limiting federal court's involvement in criminal investigations, and both would violate bedrock separation of powers limitations. I mean, I could go on, Chuck, but they basically say this woman just violated bedrock principles in the Constitution to try to protect Donald Trump. It was one of the most scathing, scathing rulings I've ever seen, overturning a lower court's ruling. And this person's in charge of the case? Does she stay in charge throughout the entire case? Probably so, Joe. So the 11th Circuit, and I read their opinion too, was not gentle in their review of her actions.

I read what she did, and I read what they said about what she did, and they had it right. Now, look, there's a big difference between a bad judge and an unprincipled judge. And I can't tell you right now that I believe she's unprincipled. She may just be a bad judge. She may just not be very good at her job. Look, there are dentists and airline pilots who are really good. And there are dentists and airline pilots who are awful. Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, how did you and I both know that you've got the luck of the draw on this

and the odds of this woman getting this with 15. Come on, man. How did this woman of all women, of all judges who, again, probably putth Circuit, one of the most conservative circuits. How could that judge be assigned this? It seems far from luck of the draw. Well, look, I don't know that it's anything but luck of the draw, Joe. I don't know that. If it's something else, if it's something nefarious, that'll come out. It always does. But here's my larger point about bad judges and good judges. As a federal prosecutor, you live with the judge you get. Some are very good at managing the case in their courtroom and their docket, and some aren't.

If your underlying facts are sound, if your theory of the case is sound, if you've investigated the case properly, you're going to be OK. This is not going to turn on the judge. I don't believe I may be wrong about that. Umpires make bad calls all the time. I understand we're not talking about baseball, but the best team usually wins. And I believe that last night, Jonathan, two out of three this weekend. We don't have time to talk about that. Dave Ehrenberg, the as you well know, the chief, the chief clerk of the federal court system in the southern district of Florida confirmed that Judge Cannon would. This is her trial unless she were to recuse herself. So it seems like that's a done deal. Give us your thoughts on that and also just preview us, please, what we're going to see tomorrow in this historic moment when a former president of the United States appears in a courthouse to face federal charges. Yeah, Jonathan, I want to show you this is the sheet where Jack Smith checked the box for the court division. And here he checked West Palm Beach. And that's why Judge Cannon had a really good chance at getting this.

It wasn't one out of 15, Joe. It was one out of four, four judges who are in that West Palm Beach division. And then it depends on workload. So there's no conspiracy here. I know the clerk of court down there, Ms. Noble, and she's awesome. She's honest. And this is a random assignment. It's just bad luck. And by the way, tomorrow, the magistrate judge who will be dealing with the arraignment

will be a Miami judge, a guy named John Goodman. It will not be Judge Cannon, though Judge Cannon is still assigned. Oh, and the John Goodman is no relation to the John Goodman from the TV show Roseanne or The Big Lebowski. Thank you for that. I was wondering. First thing I thought of. What does the magistrate do tomorrow then? OK, so magistrate John Goodman, the DOJ abides, will go ahead and just deal with it the same way everyone else will take the plea for the arraignment of not guilty. He'll set the terms of the pretrial release and then he'll go back. Trump will go back to Mar-a-Lago. Now, here's the thing. The Department of Justice had bad luck in getting Judge Kent. I agree with Chuck because, you know, she made some very

controversial rulings. But, you know, she also knows that she was publicly humiliated by the 11th Circuit. She went too far. And this three-judge panel within the conservative 11th Circuit, you cited it, they smacked down her rulings and they took her off the case. And two of those three judges were Trump appointees. So you've got to believe perhaps she's been chastened and maybe she just will act differently, not wanting to get put in timeout again. But don't expect her to recuse herself. This is the case of a lifetime.

She went out of her way to intervene in the case last year when she really shouldn't have. So why would she take herself off it voluntarily? If she goes out of bounds here? Expect Jack Smith to go to the 11th Circuit to get her removed. But I don't think it's going to happen yet. Yeah, I mean, I mean, Chuck, let's say that she comes up with more bizarre rulings and the 11th Circuit keeps striking down these rulings at some point. Could Jack Smith then go and ask for her removal? You can't get a judge removed because they're not good at their job. You can get a judge recused to remove Joe because they have some conflict, typically familial or financial.

So, look, there are a couple of really important rulings that she'll have to make, including whether or not the piercing of attorney-client privilege, which was decided by a D.C. judge with respect to the grand jury investigation, still applies to the case before her, which would be tried. That's a big ruling. If you lose that, maybe you do go to the 11th Circuit and you argue that she got the law wrong. But there's lots of rulings by judges on the path to trial. Some you win and some you lose. And as a prosecutor, you

deal with it. So I agree with Dave. I don't think there was anything nefarious in her appointment. I think she was chastened by the 11th Circuit, and that may bring her back into line. It may turn out that she is not a particularly good judge. That happens to prosecutors and you deal with it. the line, it may turn out that she is not a particularly good judge. That happens to prosecutors and you deal with it. And by the way, just again, just so everybody understands what happens, let's say, for instance, if Dave, if she rules that the attorney client privilege should not have been pierced, she makes that ruling. Jack Smith appeals and it goes up to the 11th Circuit. And based on everything we know, based on the law, 11th Circuit will reverse appeals and it goes up to the 11th Circuit. And based on everything we know,

based on the law, 11th Circuit will reverse it and it'll go back down. That'll be one more humiliation for her. So, again, if she makes these wacko rulings like she made last time, it'll go up to the 11th Circuit again. And I do love how this is playing out. It's not going to the Ninth Circuit. It's going to the most conservative circuit in America. The Trump appointed judge. With Trump appointed judges, they reverse it. It goes back down to another Trump appointed judge. And so the question is, how much does she want to be humiliated?

And I think Chuck asked the right question. Has she learned from the last humiliation? We'll see. But again, any bad ruling she makes will be reversed by the 11 humiliation. We'll see. But again, any bad ruling she makes will be reversed by the 11th Circuit. The only thing here is, if, let's just say, somebody wanted to drag this case out

to benefit Donald Trump, that is one thing completely within her power. For sure. Because that's what Donald Trump wants. Yeah, Jack Smith filed this case in South Florida, in part because he wanted this to be expedited. He wanted to eliminate Trump's arguments that this is the wrong venue and try to avoid all those delays. But then he got Judge Cannon. Yes, she could grant Trump all these extensions and delays. And, you know, that's Trump's strategy. So I'm not worried that she's going to dismiss this case.

And the 11th Circuit has shown that not only are they going to reverse her, they're quick to act. They know the stakes here. But she could do some things that could really hurt the prosecution, such as she could allow more Trump supporters on the jury during jury selection. She could, if he's found guilty, she could go way below the federal sentencing guidelines and give extreme leniency. So in addition to delays, there are ways that she could hurt the prosecution. But I agree with you, Joe,

she goes too far. The 11th Circuit is going to step in, but I don't think they can avoid if she delays this past the 2020-24 election. And just on the politics of it, the venue change in Florida eliminates Trump's complaint about bias. And getting it to Judge Cannon also eliminates, makes it harder for Trump to complain about bias in the trial, too. So it's harder for him to shape the narrative when it's his appointee doing it. Everything, the venue, the judge, everything breaks Donald Trump's way here. All of it. Which means, of course, trouble for the prosecution.

That said, at the end, if he is found guilty, and if he is charged, and if he is sentenced, and if he goes to jail, then that's happened, really, with him getting every single benefit of the doubt.

If it happens, he would turn on her the same way he turned on me. Well, of course. Well, I get ready. State attorney for Palm Beach County, Florida. Not that it matters because he'd be in jail. Dave Ehrenberg and former U.S. attorney and senior FBI official Chuck Rosenberg. Thank you both very much for coming on early this morning. I'm sure we'll see you tomorrow.

I couldn't help but notice, Richard, that Chuck brought up baseball. Do we have time to talk about that? No, there's no time. We have to go to a commercial break. Still ahead on Morning Joe, more on the new developments surrounding the federal indictment of Donald Trump, including the choice posed by The New York Times for the 2024 GOP field, quote, law and order or loyalty. Plus, two Republican presidential candidates promised to rename a military base. This is really sick, by the way. After a Confederate general. This is really sick.

They are elected. A traitor. What is wrong with them? A traitor who loses. Like, is there a theme here? No, is there a theme here? Why do they like losers who are traitors? They're like losers who are traitors.

All right, we'll tell you who they are. It's unbelievable. Also ahead, we'll get a live report from London following the resignation of Boris Johnson from the British Parliament. Bad air. Bad future. And the big winners from last night's Tony Awards. You're watching Morning Joe. Did you win one of those? We will be right back.

Not yet. Left the flagstick in with the maple leaf flag. Good pace. Are you serious? Oh, my goodness! Glorious and free! That is Nick Taylor sinking a 72-foot eagle putt yesterday to become the first Canadian in 69 years to win his national Open, and he did it with that shot.

Incredible stuff. Taylor claiming the RBC Canadian Open title after a four-hole playoff against Tommy Fleetwood and made the longest made putt of his PGA Tour career. Richard, that's a heck of a shot. You can do that, Richard. That was the sports news of the weekend. I just want to make it clear to both of you. You mean that in the end, the Red Sox

beating the Yankees? The Sox taking two out of three. We turn now to Paris, where Novak Djokovic earned his men's record 23rd. 23rd Grand Slam singles championship, doing it at the French Open. Breaking a tie with Rafael Nadal, and now

moving three in front of the retired Roger Federer with a straight set victory over Kasper Ruud in yesterday's final. That adding to his 2016 and 2021 titles at Roland-Garros, Djokovic now is the only man with at least three from each major, including 10 titles at the Australian Open, seven from Wimbledon, and three at the U.S. Open. Djokovic also now is halfway to a calendar year Grand Slam. He'll resume his pursuit at the All-England Club, that's Wimbledon, next month. So let me ask you, did he make any warmongering claims about Kosovo being a property of the Serbian people? He didn't do that yesterday, but he did it repeatedly during the tournament. I'm just curious if yesterday

he held his tongue on that one just yesterday. Okay, let's go to the next one. I love this. Tom Brady was there. On the women's side, world number one, Iga Sviatik took home her third trophy in Paris on Saturday, defeating unseated Karolina Muktova in three sets. You said that very

well. Thank you. To claim the fourth Grand Slam title of her career. And I'm told now that the sports section has to come to a close. We don't have time to talk about the Red Sox. We need to get the Yankees two out of three. Do we have any video from last night of this game that we don't have time to play? Can't talk about it.

Did they lose again? Did the Red Sox lose again? No, they won, Mika. They're always losing. They are always losing, but they won. Oh, Alex. No video. The EP.

You found it? No, he's a Yankees fan. No, there's no time. It's a pocket veto. Pocket veto. Pocket veto. No, the 18 minutes of blank tape. All right, let's get to other news this morning.

Good editorial judgment. One of America's busiest highways is facing a partial shutdown after a section collapsed after a tanker truck caught fire underneath the overpass on the I-95 in Philadelphia. It potentially leaves a portion of the highway unusable for months. NBC News correspondent George Solis has more. How about it, 95? An explosion leaving a major northeast highway destroyed. Something is ignited. We're not sure what it is right now. Little charcoal accident out of control here, you know. The northbound lanes of Interstate 95 in Philadelphia buckling and then collapsing

under flames that officials say erupted from a tanker truck fire underneath the overpass. I plan to issue a disaster declaration allowing the commonwealth to immediately draw down federal funds and move quickly to repair and reconstruct this roadway. The U.S. Coast Guard says the tanker was carrying nearly 9,000 gallons of gasoline. Manholes near the site also funneled flames, leading to secondary explosions. The cause of the explosion is still unknown. Governor, based on what you've seen in your briefing, is there anything that indicates that this could have been intentionally set?

It's an ongoing investigation. Jesus Christ. Right on 95 right now. Drivers recording the scene on I-95 as they were driving on the highway. Mark Fusetti was on the southbound lanes moments before it collapsed, capturing this video. How are you feeling now that you've had some time to decompress? A little shocked that I seen it was there at that moment. It's crazy that watching the video is where it's when I hit that dip. Knowing what I know now, it's insane. Officials say more than 500 tons of steel and concrete from the highway collapsed. I came outside. I smelled smoke. It smelled like gasoline actually. As firefighters race to put out the flames, concerns of compromised gas lines added to the danger.

There have been no reported injuries and I-95 remains closed in both directions. Authorities say delays and traffic for drivers could last weeks. Wow, I mean, how else is George Solis with that report? That's nuts. That guy driving over it right before it collapses. Right before. And again, that's interesting. The governor not ruling out foul play here, but we'll continue to follow this story. How are you and your family going to get down to Myrtle Beach? There's no way.

Yeah, I mean, that will be really complicated. Actually, this is going to really complicate summer travel. But that is the busiest highway in the country. There's no way around it. And it is, we're about to hit summer travel season. And that's going to be a huge detour. Huge detour. Coming up, new accusations of a political hit job and witch hunt.

Not from Donald Trump, but from Boris Johnson after he abruptly quit as a member of parliament. NBC's Keir Simmons joins us with the latest. Morning Joe will be right back. Forty five past the hour, Boris Johnson, the embattled former British prime minister, has abruptly resigned as a member of parliament. I never saw that coming. The former conservative party leader quit after receiving a letter from a House of Commons committee, which is investigating whether he lied to British lawmakers over lockdown breaking parties during the covid-19 pandemic. And he wasn't the only member. Also in the UK, Scotland's former first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, was arrested early Sunday by police investigating financial misconduct by the Scottish National Party before being released without charge.

Sturgeon served as Scotland's first minister for more than eight years before stepping down abruptly in February. Let's go now to London with NBC News chief international correspondent Keir Simmons. Keir, Boris Johnson being untruthful. Yeah. Whoever saw this coming. Yeah. We're here to make you feel better about your politics, Joe. That's our goal in life these days here in the UK. You're welcome. You're welcome. Listen, I mean, it is it is confusing. It is confusing. Let me try and simplify it. Boris Johnson has resigned as a lawmaker, as a member of parliament because of this report coming out, which he says is a hatchet job, but also had the implication that he was going to

have to fight for that seat, for that parliamentary seat. So instead, he stepped away. Now, that privilege committee is meeting today, and I think we'll hear more about exactly what they're alleging against Boris Johnson. But, you know, it's all about the question of whether or not he lied during Covid about parties that were happening at Downing Street and at his prime ministerial country estate. So there's that part of it. And then there's another part of it, too, which is that he gets to nominate people to the House of Lords, a resignation honours list to give honours out, if you like. That's one of the last things a former prime minister can do. Three loyalists are not on that list. And there is a furious row over why, whether Prime Minister Rishi Sunak had some part in it in the current government.

I mean, to sum it all up, politics in the UK can be poisonous and there are members of the Privileged Committee who are from the Conservative Party. In fact, most of them are. And yet Boris Johnson claims he's trying to push them out. It's something of a denouement for this battle

between the Boris faction and the other factions inside the Conservative Party. But I don't think we've heard the last of Boris Johnson. All right, Keir Simmons. Thank you, Keir. Thank you so much for making us feel a bit better. No, I don't feel better. Well, we're trying. We're working through it. Thank you so much. So let's think about this really quickly. Berlusconi passes away. Right wing populist in Italy. You have Boris Johnson going away.

Right wing populist in Britain. You have Donald Trump, obviously. You know, apparently he's stolen nuclear secrets. That's just not going to end well. Are we seeing a bit of a turning of the page? In a word, no, because the disease that led to this wave of right wing populism hasn't gone away. It happens when governments don't deliver and people will feel resentful in our country. It was everything from wars that went badly to an economy that didn't grow for the middle class, et cetera, et cetera. So people turn to right-wing populists. But again, they've lost in 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23. Yeah, but again, it lots depends upon when people vote, whether it becomes a referendum on the status quo. If they're dissatisfied,

they may turn to, again, it's too soon to say that we've turned the page. We still see it in other parts of the world, Mexico, India, Turkey. So what just happened there, the right wing populist one. So I think it's too soon to say that we've turned the page. You know, what's so interesting about Boris Johnson just for a second is that he gets nailed for this to lying to parliament about having parties during covid. Right. What he doesn't get nailed for is having taken the country over the cliff on Brexit. That will be his historic legacy. Have they changed their mind on Brexit? Don't most Brits now want back in the EU? Most Brits regret having left. The polls show over 60 percent wouldn't mind. My guess is. Can they have a re-vote? No, I think that might be true. Even Labour is not calling for a re-vote. What I think will happen is Labour will win, be the next

prime minister. Keith Stormer will win it. And what you'll have is get like 80 percent of being back in the EU without calling it being back in the EU. Now, tell me about Berlusconi. What's his legacy? Total, again, right wing populist. The personal thing mainly totally messed up the Italian economy, essentially contributed to Italy once again, being outside of Europe and just. He really was Trump before Trump. I mean, we there are a lot of people that we compare Trump to. But but Berlusconi was Trump on television. The person, the big personality, the outsider, in many ways, the closest to him.

You're right. Yeah. Let's talk about Ukraine. Zelensky says that the counteroffensive has begun reports out of Russia. It seems that right now the foreign ministry and the Wagner group still having having battles between themselves. Looks like a real sort of battle to succeed Putin. I mean, I think that's the battle over if things go bad enough, what then what then happens. I actually take it much more seriously, Joe, than I used to when a few months ago. You know, with the offensive, we're going to be asking ourselves every day, almost like checking the temperature of something in the oven. How's it going? How's it going? You mentioned this, you measure this in months, not in days. So in a funny sort of way, let's see where they are in a

couple of months and whether there's a trend here. Do we see whether the Russians are beginning to collapse or do we see that the Russians in defensive positions can essentially, even if they lose a little bit, can essentially hold the line? That to me is the big question. By the way, you know, because I'm a conservative, I'm a big believer that things can always get worse. If you want to know how they can get worse after Putin, look at the guy who's running the Wagner group. Yeah, that's how things can get worse in Russia, far worse than Vladimir Putin. At least the public image he puts out right now. He makes Putin look like a sane actor, a rational actor.

So, Richard, to your point, U.S. officials watching this, they say, look, early signs of progress in the counteroffensive. But this is going to be weeks and months. It's too early to say. But underscore for us, like, how important is it for them to show real progress in order to keep the funding and equipment coming from an alliance at this point has been radically unified, but we're starting to hear growing whispers, both in the European capitals and among Republicans, wondering just how much longer we can keep doing this. Well, I think there's a fundamental fork in the road in, say, four to six months. If this goes

well, people will say, stick with it. Ukraine is making significant progress then even through another winter, another fight. What defines if it's going well? Well, big question. How much of it? Taking, you know, that's a subjective call, but they've retaken big parts maybe of the east back of Donetsk. That would be a big deal. Not yet Crimea, but big parts of the east. If, however, there's virtually no change in the battlefield, then I think you'll see pressured calls. OK, let's have a ceasefire. This isn't working. And think about something else. So I actually, but Joe put his finger on a big question. What's enough to show progress? And I think, and too soon to answer that question,

but there could be a debate. It's not going to be black or white. There'll be some gray here. But there has to be a sense that they've made real progress military. They've cleared the Russians out. The Russians seem to be collapsing and another season would bring significantly more progress. If that happens, I think they're OK. If it doesn't happen again, the pressure will grow dramatically for a season. I really believe going into the next one, regardless, the pressure is going to be overwhelming for all the sides to get together and negotiate. This is in nobody's best interest. So still ahead, quote, how to convict Trump. Former U.S. attorney Joyce Vance joins us with her advice for special counsel Jack Smith on how to succeed in his case against the former president. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. In duration, I'm going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information.

No one will be above the law. We also need to fight this battle by collecting intelligence and then protecting, protecting our classified secrets. We can't have someone in the Oval Office who doesn't understand the meaning of the word confidential or classified. One of the first things we must do is to enforce all classification rules and to enforce all laws relating to the handling of classified information. We also need the best protection of classified information. Service members here in North Carolina have risked their lives to acquire classified intelligence to protect our country. Donald Trump's own words. I agree with him. From the 2016 campaign, which show

he understood the importance of protecting classified information. Those comments are included in the four nine forty nine page indictment against him. And Mike Barnicle's here. Mike, these files, a lot of them were marked with five eyes classification markings only to be viewed with those in the U.S. government with top security clearance. We have nuclear secrets that he stole from the White House. You've got documents involving America's national security weaknesses that he stole from the White House. You name it. The very things he was talking about there, he took. And they were talked to national security people over the weekend, some that worked for him. Just absolutely shocked, just just flabbergasted by just how sensitive the documents were that he took. You know, is it possible, Joe, that all of that that you just listed and all of the hypocrisy

that we just heard from the former president could be the second most dangerous element that's going on now in this country? The first and the highly lethal, potentially lethal element that's going on in this country is what they're doing to the system. Vast numbers of the members of the Republican Party, especially in the House of Representatives. Eddie and I were just talking off camera. This congressman, Andy Biggs from Arizona, tweets a nigh for a nigh after these indictments are announced. This constant talk among circles in the Republican Party, and thus, unfortunately, in large segments of the American public, that there's a double

standard here. Why aren't the Bidens being indicted? Why is it just Trump? The realization of what Donald Trump has done, the damage he has done to this country over the past seven or eight years, actually, is now coming to a full head of steam with this trial coming up. Well, you know, we see it. We know where it goes, though, Mike, because we know where January 6th went. And where it goes is a lot of these people end up in jail. If somebody is looking at what Andy Biggs is saying, trying to get them to start a second civil war, they can look back and see what happened after January 6th when they tried this before. These people are in jail. More people will go to jail if they do this.

And the Republican Party will pay. Look at this number. These are the these are the amount of people outside of the base of the Republican Party who believe that Donald Trump taking nuclear secrets and classified military secrets is especially bad. 80 percent would be taking military. Would it be a national security risk? 80 percent might say yes.

And that's the thing. The freaks, the insurrectionists, the weirdos, the sycophants, that number keeps decreasing by the day. My worry is not the 80 percent. My worry is the ordinary people out there who, for whatever reasons, whatever reasons, have immense fealty towards Donald Trump. We don't understand really why they have this like an unreasonable dedication to this guy after what he he's done nothing for them. Right. I've been thinking I've been thinking for like four or five days now about 1968. I was thinking about Los Angeles and Memphis and Chicago and all the violence that ensued during during 1968. And many people, Richard, you'd remember

this, many people wondering whether the fabric of this country was coming apart, was unraveling right in front of our eyes in 1968. No matter what happened in 1968, all the anti-war stuff, all the anti-constitutional stuff, the country's in trouble, all that stuff. The Constitution, the basis of who we are as a government, as a people, was never under siege. It was never threatened. It is today. Well, the only thing I'll say is we had a president who tried to steal an election. Right. He didn't do it. We had a president who took 63 cases to the federal courts and Federalist Society judges and liberal judges and judges in between all 63 threw those out.

You had him going to what he called his Supreme Court. His Supreme Court said no, there was no widespread voter fraud here. Three of his justices that he appointed said no. The two most conservative justices, Alito and Thomas, wrote a concurrence in opinion saying there is not enough fraud out there to overturn an election. And you can go down the list. And now we're seeing day after day after day these people that beat the hell out of cops, these people that tried to overthrow the government, these people that were in a conspiracy to commit sedition against the federal government, they're going to jail 10, 15, 20 years. So I understand what you're saying. Donald Trump was indicted. And I think we need to see what happens. But Richard, obviously, it's much different. It's much different when it's coming

from the inside, when you have a former president that's that's doing all of this. And you've got about 30, 35 percent of the population going along. So that's that is I agree with Mike. That is very troubling. I would just say that it is a shrinking band of insurrectionists, weirdos, freaks, white supremacists, and fascists that are following him. Yeah, but it still should worry you. Let me give you two reasons. It should what? It should worry you.

Oh, yeah. One is Northern Ireland, where I spent a lot of time. It doesn't take a lot of people doing violence to disrupt the society. We saw what happened with that one thing in Pennsylvania with the bridge. So just say a small number of intensely motivated people want to cause real damage to this country. They can they can do it. So that to me, the the fear I have is not of a second civil war, quote unquote. It's it's random acts of politically inspired. By the way, you're not suggesting the bridge was was anything. I have no idea. Yeah. My point is simply what it does is it demonstrates how infrastructure, small amounts of critical infrastructure can be highly disruptive.

Right. And small numbers of people, if they want to commit acts of politically inspired destruction, can do it and can cause real damage to a society. That's my only point. Northern Ireland is proof of that. Secondly, you're basically saying when you say it's an intense but dwindling percentage of America. But when people go to vote, they vote on lots of things. And who knows if when they go to vote in 18 months, this isn't front and center.

Maybe it's a recession or maybe it's some something related to crime or the border. Democracy is not on the ballot. It's the backdrop to the ballot. So my point is simply what Mike is saying. I can imagine political scenarios where despite everything you're pointing out, still things go in a very different direction politically. I just want to say, first of all, Amika will tell you this. I'm anything but sanguine. She heard me this weekend. I did not sound sanguine at all, but I don't bring that on the show. I get it out. I think through it. And I'm just trying to keep things in perspective here that, yes, this is this is really deeply troubling that you have an ex-president that would still nuclear

secrets. And you have members of Congress and people running for president of the United States that say it's very cool that he stole nuclear secrets. We're cool with that. That's really troubling. I do get it. I'm just saying long run, long term, a price has at least over the last eight years, a price has always been paid by the party who endorses aberrant political behavior. You know, Joe, I think you've said over and over again that two things could be true at once. So I think both of these things, both of these claims could be true. But what I'm thinking about is the kind of the spectrum from the lone person in their basement who could be radicalized for to Kevin McCarthy, to Steve Scalise, to folks who are weapon. This is the weaponization of the federal government. And how could that that could provide cover for these folk who think that the federal government is overreached and there's a threat against liberty and all this. So I think part of part of my concern is is that we face a tragic

choice in this country. We're at an inflection point. And that tragic choice is always involved, at least when it comes to Donald Trump. Will we uphold the rule of law? Right. Or will the Cold Civil War turn hot? Will we not open up? Will we not uphold the rule of law? And will we lose our democracy? And we've been at that point with this guy for a number of years. And we're here. It's getting sharper.

But we always have that battle. We had that battle during the Civil War. We almost lost the nation. We almost lost the nation. We had that battle during Reconstruction, where you talk about backsliding. We had that. We can look at Tulsa in the 1920s.

We can look at all the Jim Crow laws. We can go to the church bombing in Birmingham where four little girls go to Sunday school and they get blown up by a white racist terrorist and killed. We can look at what happened in Selma. We can look at what happened in Philadelphia, Mississippi, where civil rights were kids, kids, kids go down. The Mississippi and get killed and buried. I mean, it's it's it's been it's been a long, hard battle. You talk about 1968. My God. Yeah. Who would want to go through 1968 again? The assassination of MLK, the assassination of Bobby, just chaos, the Tet

Offensive protests in the streets, riots all over America. I'm not saying that now is wonderful. I'm saying we always have this fight of people that are trying to pull us back from going toward being a more perfect union. You're right. I think this is worse. I think the idea that one of the two. Do you think this is worse than 1968?

Absolutely. Yeah. Actually, I thought a lot of heart about of people wrote about it in the book. I actually think this is structurally and systematically more of a threat in part because one of the two major political parties of the United States has been to some extent hijacked. I think 1968, that wasn't the case. This is qualitatively different. Mike, you agree with that?

I do agree with it because the principal figure in the Republican Party who dominates the Republican Party is a cult leader, is soon to be on trial for basically esp has a pointed attack daily on the Constitution of the United States. Fascist. That's the spine of our democracy. All right. And that's what he is doing.