Morning Joe - Morning Joe 6/19/23

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

Former allies break with Trump

Donald Trump's position on the national debt is identical to Joe Biden's. There have been promises made about draining the swamp, building the wall, doing all these things. You know, none of that came to fruition. He's a petulant child when someone disagrees with him. He's also a fundamentally flawed person who engages in reckless conduct. I don't need to read the indictment or believe its allegations are true, although I'm pretty confident they are. Clearly, it was unauthorized, illegal and dangerous. I view them serious and disqualifying, actually, for commander in chief.

Anybody who doesn't want to look at the facts, they should be disqualified from running, not just Trump. You know, so many of those people that were saying that worked for him. You had his attorney general. You had his national security advisor. You had his attorney general. You had his national security advisor. You had his secretary of defense. You had his top-ranking officials. All Republicans, all supporters of Donald Trump,

all people that stood by him until January the 6th. They're the ones criticizing, not like left-wingers. They were on the inside and worked with him, and they know exactly what he's about because they've seen it. We're going to have much more of the mounting criticism on the former president and his campaign amid a federal indictment, among other legal challenges, with the possibility of another indictment coming this summer. Meanwhile, one of Trump's challengers in the 2024 race, Chris Christie, dismisses one of the RNC's requirements to participate in the debates.

We'll show you his comments on that. It all comes as President Biden's reelection campaign appears to be off to a slow start, but there are signs that it is picking up some steam. We'll explain. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Monday, June 19th. And with us, we have the host of way too early White House bureau chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, the president of the National Action Network and host of MSNBC's Politics Nation. Reverend Al Sharpton joins us. Rogers chair and the American presidency at Vanderbilt University. John Meacham is here and founder of the conservative Web site. The bulwark, Charlie Sykes, joins us. We'll get to all of that. I just want to ask John Meacham really quickly, John, how I mean, how remarkable is it that you again,

the people that are criticizing a political opponent, it's not progressive Democrats. It's not people that served in the Obama administration that are out there this week in criticizing Donald Trump. It's his former national security adviser. It's his former secretary of defense. It's his former attorney general who who was was so loyal to him that he was willing to perjure himself in front of the House and the Senate Judiciary Committees. Yeah. No man is a hero to his valet or his attorney general. Apparently, the what I think we are seeing is the people who know the most slowly saying what the what what the unspoken part, the tough part out loud. And the great question, the question on which so much of the country's future hangs is to what extent can Republicans who see the truth about Trump, can they make a difference in turning a party that has been a remarkable force for good in many, many ways

back into a functioning constitutionally strong party. And saying it is the beginning. But they've got to break with the they've got to make sure that he doesn't keep winning. And that's a very different thing than saying something on television. Yeah. And, you know, Charlie Sykes, I saw a great column, I think it was about a week ago, I believe it was Nate Cohn, who said, I'm not looking at the poll numbers for a while to see how Donald Trump's doing because they're going to stay artificially high because pollsters are going to call them. They're going to reflexively get in line because of this, quote, attack they see from the left. He said, I'm going to be watching Fox News. I'm going to be watching what Republicans say about him.

And by that standard, if you if you look at the Weathervane vice president who started out immediately afterwards saying, oh, this is a Democratic hit job. This is blah, blah, blah. And then suddenly, you know, the next day I'm going to pardon him. And then he goes the next day talking about how horrible this information was. And the next day saying, well, I'm not going to pardon him yet. I'm going to see what it looks like. He actually it took him three or four days, but he actually got to where every American should be, which is this looks really bad.

He's innocent until proven guilty. And why in the world are we even talking about pardons before convictions? And so it does seem if you use that test of not looking at polls right now, but instead looking at Republicans, it is a mixed bag at best for Donald Trump. It is. And we don't know whether the cumulative weight of all of this will make a difference. But that montage you played at the beginning was really quite extraordinary because those are voices from within the Republican Party and from within the Trump administration saying, look, we were in the room with this guy. This is who he is. This is how he's behaved. And this is where he's wrong. And we need to move on now. Again, I don't know what that's going to make a difference. It hasn't made a difference so far.

But, you know, to your point, this is extraordinary, an extraordinary moment. No president has ever had this many former cabinet members, former top aides, people who had been, you know, intimate associates of his administration, now coming out and saying, you know, this man is not fit to be the president of the United States. Now, look, I mean, a lot of these guys like Bill Barr, you need a healthy gag reflex to, you know, sort of accept him. But, you know, coming from Bill Barr, this is a story. This was not on my bingo card for 2023 that he would be the most vociferous and effective critic of Donald Trump. But in terms of how do you break Donald Trump's hold on the Republican Party,

I don't know if it's possible or will happen, but it has to be something like this. Other Republicans saying he's not really conservative, he didn't deliver his promises, and he's a petulant nine-year-old child. Now, do you look at what Andrew McCarthy is saying for the National Review, what you're seeing on the headlines and drudge every day, what you're seeing from other conservative thought leaders and people who have been aggressively anti-anti-Trump shamelessly over the past several years? You look at the National Review that turned anti anti Trump ism into an art form. They're all coming out saying this is much worse than it looks.

Well, we're going to have more on these leading Republican voices speaking out about the former president in just a moment. But we want to get to developing news out of Beijing this morning, where Secretary of State Anthony Blinken met with Chinese President Xi Jinping. The Associated Press reports their meeting lasted roughly 35 minutes. The AP also cites footage from the meeting released by Chinese state media in which Chinese President Xi is attributed as saying, quote, the two sides have agreed to follow through on the common understandings President Biden and I have reached in Bali. So that meeting taking place this morning. Yeah. Very early. Yeah. Very early this morning for us. Not so not so for them. But Jonathan O'Meara, this has been coming for some time. I must say, just I've I've been saying on this show since 2007, I think the supremacy of China has been overvalued by Americans. I think China is obviously the rising power and we're going to share the world stage with them for the next 30, 40, 50 years. They certainly aren't going to dominate us. But I also think this talk of this talk of just absolute collapse in the relationship

has also been overstated. Both sides have been jostling for position. Biden has been far more aggressive. He's finally done something that every president said they were going to do this century. And he's actually done the pivot toward Asia, strengthening America's positions in Guam, strengthening our positions with our allies in the Philippines, in Japan, in Australia. I mean, in a massive way. And obviously, that's the pushback that other presidents talked about doing, but none of them did. It's what actually Biden has done. And so that's obviously, that's the pushback that other presidents talked about doing, but none of them did. It's what actually Biden has done. And so that's obviously you can understand from China's point of view, wrangled some feathers. But at the same time, you know, they they had a very constructive speech because we need China. China needs us. It's just that simple. Whether you're talking about the economy,

whether you're talking about the environment, whatever issues you're talking about, global security, we need each other. So, you know, they obviously were talking about some problems they've had over the past couple of years. I'm sure they talked about economic issues, military issues, and probably closed up. And I'm just speculating here, probably closed up with a Red Sox sweep of the Yankees, which everybody's talking about. That is the top global headline this morning, Joe. Yeah, this, of course, is the meeting that was originally scheduled for February that was postponed when that Chinese spy balloon was spotted over the United States. And really, tensions escalated between the two countries.

And it took them several months to get to the point where they could have this meeting. And it was widely expected the secretary of state would meet with Xi Jinping at the culmination of his time in Beijing. But there was a wait to see how his talks went with his counterpart, the Chinese foreign minister, first, to make sure that they didn't devolve like they had done in the past. But they went well, both sides say. And therefore, Blinken got his audience with Chinese President Xi Jinping. The Chinese president referenced his mention with meeting with President Biden at the G20 in Indonesia last year. There is a hope, U.S. officials tell me, that later this fall, at the next this year's G20, the two men might meet again. But that's certainly not scheduled just yet. But there is, Joe, certainly there's been a number of flash

points between these two countries over the last year or so. But senior aides tell me over the weekend, they do feel like things are heading in the right direction. And of course, President Biden, as you say, has tried to have this pivot to Asia. The war in Ukraine slowed that some. But they feel like this is he has framed his entire foreign policy as this battle between democracies and autocracies and suggesting, though, that doesn't have to be conflict with China, but rather competition. And though there are still tension between the Pentagon and the Chinese military, there's been a few moments where the Chinese have buzzed American aircraft or boats recently. There is a sense that things

have cooled down just a little and they feel like they're heading in the right direction now. All right, we'll be following this and any more from the White House on this meeting. We turn back now to a number of former allies,

former President Donald Trump breaking with their former boss. Here is more of Attorney General, former Attorney General Bill Barr unleashing a new scathing assessment of Donald Trump's conduct related to the classified documents case. This is not a circumstance where he's the victim or this is government overreach. He provoked this whole problem himself. Yes, he's been the victim of unfair witch hunts in the past, but that doesn't obviate the fact that he's also a fundamentally flawed person who engages in reckless conduct and that leads to situations, calamitous situations like this,

which are very destructive and hurt any political cause he's associated with. And this was a case that entirely of his own making. How strong is the special counsel's case on obstruction specifically? Well, it's very strong because a lot of the evidence comes from his own lawyers. And furthermore, there's evidence of him saying things that are completely incompatible with any idea that this was an innocent document dispute. Do you believe he lied to the Justice Department? Do I personally believe it? Yes, I do. The legal theory by which he gets to take battle plans and sensitive national security information as his personal papers is absurd. It's just as wacky as the legal doctrine they came up with for, you know, having the vice president unilaterally

determine who won the election. Trump has, election. Trump has many good qualities and he accomplished some good things. But the fact of the matter is he is a consummate narcissist and he constantly engages in reckless conduct that puts his political followers at risk and the conservative and Republican agenda at risk. He will always put his own interests and gratifying his own ego ahead of everything else, including the country's interests. There's no question about it. This is a perfect example of that. He's like, you know, he's like a nine year old defiant nine year old kid who's always pushing the glass toward the edge of the table, defying his parents to stop him from doing it. It's a means of self-assertion and

exerting his dominance over other people. And he's a very petty individual who will always put his interests ahead of the country's, his personal gratification of his, you know, of his ego. But our country, our country can't, you know, can't be a therapy session for, you know, a troubled man like this. Oh, my God, that's worse than I thought. And there are millions of questions, millions of questions as to why he didn't do this earlier, why he actually can tell this story as he was witnessing it from the inside. At the same time, he clearly knows Donald Trump very, very well. And I guess the biggest takeaway here is that this must be so bad he has nowhere else to go, Bill Barr, but to say exactly the truth. This guy, I think the word he used is toast.

Well, yeah, he knew he knew this Donald Trump when he worked for him. Anybody that is with him for more than five minutes knows that he puts his own interest in front of the interest of the country. And it's certainly anybody that worked with him inside the White House figured that out very quickly. But you look, Reverend Al, at some of these some of these words that Barr said. He's not the victim, which, of course, that's these snowflakes. There's such snowflake. I mean, it's a great irony. It's projection, isn't it, that that you have all of these Trumpers that talk about snowflakes who were triggered. They're the biggest snowflakes ever. They're the victims.

They they they they're victimized by by by biographies of Roberto Clemente and Hank Aaron. They're victimized by America trying to protect their nuclear secrets. They're victimized by everything. And here's Barr telling them you're not a victim. He also does say he says Trump's very destructive. This is entirely of his own making, which, of course, everybody knows it is. He lied. I mean, Barset, he lied to the Justice Department and reckless conduct that puts everybody puts puts his own interest, his petulant self-interest ahead of that of the countries of the conservative movement of the Republican Party. And I thought the most damning part but also i you know the part that that is going to cause the biggest obstacle for him for staying out of jail is the part where barr said um he's in big trouble he's toast because the most damning testimony comes from Again, not left wingers, not Democrats, but from his own lawyers.

No doubt about it. You know, we can argue about Barr should have come forward earlier. Why did he come now? It's really secondary to the fact that you're talking about a man that was the attorney general under Donald Trump, making all of these statements and saying it unequivocally and really going to the fact that the law has been violated willfully by Donald Trump. His motives are completely narcissistic. He cares little about the country. And I think that this is devastating. I don't care how Trump and anyone tries to spin it.

You made William Barr the top man in the Justice Department, not Barack Obama, not Joe Biden. He was your choice. And if this is the man that you entrusted with the Justice Department saying this about you. You can't talk your way around this. And for him to say that Donald Trump needs therapy, many of us knew that on our third conversation with Donald Trump. That doesn't make him criminal. The rest makes him criminal from who he put over criminal investigations at a federal level. Yeah, I mean, look, there's no value in looking back and going,

why didn't you? Why didn't you? Why didn't you? Whatever you think of Bill Barr, he's clearly doing the math here and seeing there's there's no way out. And not just him. Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper under Donald Trump also spoke out against his former boss. You work closely with Trump. I've heard two different theories as to why he had these documents. One from Stephanie Grisham, who said he just likes, you know, these are mine and he's like a child with a toy. And one from Michael Cohen. He said he thought that Trump had these documents because he wanted to use them to further his own power or financial well-being in some way.

Why do you think he held on to these documents and went to such lengths to stop them, to prevent them from being turned over to the government? Yeah, look, I think both theories could be true and likely are true to some extent. Who knows? People have described him as a hoarder when it comes to these type of documents, but clearly it was unauthorized, illegal and dangerous. Based on your experiences working with the Trump and the actions alleged in the indictment, do you think Trump can be trusted with the nation's secrets ever again? Well, based on his actions, again, if proven true under the indictment by the special counsel, no.

I mean, it's just irresponsible action that places our service members at risk, places our nation's security at risk. You understand the seriousness of this better than than I do. Why is it why is it a risk to the nation's security to have these documents lying around in Mar-a-Lago? Well, imagine if a foreign agent, another country, were to discover documents that outline America's vulnerabilities or the weaknesses of the United States military. Think about how that could be exploited, how that could be used against us in a conflict, how an enemy could develop countermeasures, things like that.

Or in the case of the most significant piece that was raised in the allegation about U.S. plans to attack Iran. Think about how that affects our readiness, our ability to prosecute an attack if indeed we know that Iran eventually develops a nuclear weapon and we need to act on it. I mean, those things affect our ability to effectively execute policy and could also affect, again, the lives of our military members who are sent forward to do such type of operations. So I'm quite concerned about this. These are very serious allegations and need to be taken seriously by everybody involved. Again, Charlie, this is just not anybody. This is who Donald Trump

chose to run the Pentagon, to run America's military. And this is what he said. What Donald Trump did was unauthorized, illegal and dangerous. He cannot be trusted with America's national secrets. And he places these actions, if proven true, places servicemen at risk and places our country at risk. Again, let me just say it again. Not a left winger, not a Democrat. The person that Donald Trump chose to run the Pentagon now saying that he can't be trusted with America's secrets because he will put servicemen and servicewomen's lives at risk. And he's dangerous. And when he was asked directly, can Donald Trump ever be trusted with the nation's secrets again? He said no. So that soundbite side by side with with Bill Barr is really extraordinary. And I hope we keep drawing a

line under it. This was somebody that Donald Trump chose. He was the secretary of defense. These are the voices coming from within the room. In many ways, his comments are more damning than Bill Barr's comments, because he's specifically talking to one of Donald Trump's strength, which is that that he's in favor of a strong military, that he supports the troops, that he supports veterans. And there's Mark Esper saying, no, this guy actually put them all at risk. So, again, you know, I agree with Mika that we can go back and say, you know, why didn't you see this earlier? You'd been warned about this. But in the moment we're in right now, I do think that it's worthwhile emphasizing all of these voices coming from within the administration. And, you know, whether Republican voters are going to listen, I don't know. But this is far more, I mean,

this is far more damaging than if this critique had been coming from the usual resistant suspects. I mean, these are people who served in the Trump administration, who at one time he thought were so trustworthy and were so trustworthy and were so reliable that he put them in charge of the most important agencies in the federal government. And now, of course, he's throwing them under the bus. Bill Barr, Esper, Christie, they're all going to have to deal with themselves, look in the mirror and figure out why they didn't say something earlier. But the fact that they are now, these are the people with the most information who have seen him as president and they are saying, watch out. And by the way,

we can get into this later, but maybe he didn't just put people at risk and our foreign policy at risk. Maybe he acted on it. Who knows? Who knows what he did? We really don't know. With this information. And there's no, there's no way, unfortunately, that we can know. I mean, this is the reason why you don't want these secrets outside of protected spaces in the government is because of that possibility that other people could see it, that other people could be led into a go into that room with this room or that room. You'll find something there if you look in this box. We don't know what happened. But, you know, this this presumption that there just seems this presumption that it's funny that he just threw these boxes there and no damage was done to America's national security and our

credibility. Can we I mean, listen, the government would never, never make that assumption. Military would never make that assumption. Oh, what? We just hope for the best. We hope that they were just stacked there for a year and a half. We hope that they were just stacked there and not shown to anybody. Why? What evidence do we have that actually grave damage has not been done to America's national security. There is no evidence of that. And nobody in America's intel community can come to that assumption. All they can do is they can look at the pictures. They can look at the evidence and see that a crime, a very serious crime has been committed. I mentioned Chris Christie in a new interview, former New Jersey governor and candidate for president. Chris Christie pointed to the contradiction between Trump's praise for the people in his administration when it first began and his criticism of those same people as they one by one left the White House. Either Donald Trump, if you believe what he said when they left, that means he didn't pick the very best people and doesn't know how to pick personnel. If you believe what about them, what he said at the beginning, the great stuff, then this guy is the worst manager in the history of the American presidency. Either way, Republicans should listen to what he says.

He's a petulant child when someone disagrees with them. And I say what we ought to do for tomorrow, Alex, is we should get Donald Trump's quotes when he's appointing these people and line them up with what they say right now to show because Donald Trump right now will just dismiss them as losers or whatever. Now, that's not what he said. His judgment, his judgment is absolutely horrific. If if if he believes, in fact, that they are this this twisted now, John, John Meacham, you and I were talking and you had said early on in 2016, as Donald Trump was tearing the Republican Party to shreds, tearing the Republican establishment to shreds. You said this was like a hijacker taking over a plane and the passengers cheering on the hijacker. It looks like at least a few of the passengers now are having second thoughts. But you and I both talk to people in the Republican establishment who will say Donald Trump is a

threat to the Constitution. Donald Trump's a threat to national security. Donald Trump is Trump is dangerous. Donald Trump, this Donald Trump that. But then he'll say, yeah, but we'll vote for him if he's the nominee, because, oh, my God, we could never vote for a moderate from Delaware who actually passed more bipartisan legislation than anybody in 50 years and actually pushed back Russian aggression in a way nobody has since Ronald Reagan. We could never vote for that guy. So I wouldn't want that. That crazy socialist Biden. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a growing understanding, John. At the same time, there are even some respected people in the party who who some elders in the party who won't come out and say the obvious. Yeah, it's this to think about the connection between the distance

we still have to travel between a former attorney general, a former secretary of defense, a former would-be chief of staff, Governor Christie, seeing what they see, saying what they say now and what that view, how that view can translate. I'm going to I'm going to torture the metaphor of the hijacking a little bit. Right now, the first class cabin seems to be against the hijacker. But there's a huge part of the plane that's still with him. And that's a hugely that's the plane that's still with him. And that's the hugely important point here. I have a theory. Don't hold me to the numbers exactly, but 34 percent of the country still supported Joe McCarthy long after he was censured and fell from power in 1954-55. 34

percent. So that's not 1954-55. 34 percent. So that's not a bad indicator that 34 percent will believe almost anything. Right. The moment we're in is shaped by the fact that the 34 percent has a delta of about 14 other percent, you know, 47, 48 percent that will do what you're saying, that will vote for Trump because the triumph of a reflexively partisan instinct. entire constitutional experiment at risk for judges and tax rates and this fantasy version of what the Democratic Party in this case is supposed to be. But that's, to me, the entire work of 2024 is reaching just enough people in that 14 percent, in the right states and say, look, policy comes and goes. The Constitution has to endure. And that's the essential thing.

And that's why I think what General Barr did, what Esper did, what Christie's doing. I think it's really important, not because it's going to reach the 34 percent that that's baked in. Right. I think. But in that 14 percent, which include the kind of Republicans we're talking about, you and I've joked before, they're the Peter Millar vest Republicans. Right. Right. They are. Exactly. All right. You see, you used to be the duckhead khaki, Basque conservatives. No, no, no. This is Peter Millar. Now it's totally the Peter Millar vest conservatives.

Right. And so they're watching the U.S. open and thinking they're still going to vote for Trump because of judges and taxes. Right. And some, again, some sort of projection, some sort of old view of Biden without taking account of the facts of the matter, as you articulated them. I think that's it. And I think that the fate of the republic is in the hands of I don't know the numbers well enough, but probably a million people scattered across five states and how they vote in November 2024.

And those are the kind of folks who may, in fact, listen to these voices of conversion. And as you and I have said before, we're in the conversion business, not the condemnation business. Always in the conversion business of John Wayne wants to convert on his deathbed. The heavens open up for John Wayne. That's what we believe. John, I'm not done. The preaching starts and the God, Eastern European Catholic gets nervous. She doesn't want any evangelical talk in the morning.

Charlie, really quickly before I let you go here, I can tell you, you know, as a fellow conservative, as a former Republican like me, I'm sure you like me, our friends, our family, most of the people we're surrounded with in our neighborhoods, they supported Donald Trump. They're Republicans. They're not going to vote for Joe Biden, the overwhelming majority. I'm curious what you're finding, though, as John talks about the rest of of the party beyond the first class cabin party. I can tell you, in my experience, sheer exhaustion has set in sheer exhaustion. I don't I the same people who a year and a half ago before January the 6th were all in on Trump and would just come at me hard, will now volunteer. I'm so exhausted, man. I hope DeSantis or Tim Scott or somebody else gets it.

I'm curious if you're picking that up with your friends, your family, everybody you're around. I am. And I think that John's analysis is exactly right. Look, right now, it is not a binary choice for them between Trump and Joe Biden. It's a choice between more Trump and never again Trump. And I think this focus on that 14 percent is crucial because, of course, you know, Chris Christie is not going to break through to the people who mainline Newsmax or listen to OAN or or, you know, tune into Steve Bannon's War Room podcast. But because, you know, that that is that is unshakable. But there are these Republicans that are just exhausted, who do pay attention to these voices from inside the room. And the more Republicans who say, look, we share your values. We want what you want. And this is not the way to get it. You do not want to be lashed to this guy again. This is what we saw.

This is what we heard. And I do think that these are potentially and I can't make any guarantees. These are potentially influential voices for the 14 percent that John was just mentioning, because that right now is the crucial group in the American electorate. All right, John Meacham and Charlie Sykes, thank you both very much for being on this morning. We appreciate it. And still ahead on Morning Joe, 2024 White House hopeful and Florida governor Ron DeSantis takes a veiled swipe at Trump in Nevada. We'll show you his new remarks about a culture of losing. Plus, President Biden's reelection campaign taking shape as he plans a series of events from coast to coast. What it means for the 2024 race for the White House. Also ahead, the interview with Gavin Newsom that is renewing speculation over a potential White House bid. A lot of people where I've been

traveling over the past week, everybody's talking about his Hannity interview. It's it's it's crazy the number of people who were really impressed by him in that interview. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. To me, making Juneteenth a federal holiday wasn't just a symbolic gesture. It was a statement of fact for this country to acknowledge the origin of the original sin of slavery, to understand the war was never fought over. It wasn't just about a union, but it was most fundamentally about the country and freedom. To remember the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't just a document. It captured the essence of freedom that galvanized the country. It proved that some ideas are more powerful.

They can't be denied. It's a reminder that the promise of America is we all are created equal in the image of God, and we deserve to be treated equally throughout our entire lives. President Biden speaking last week at the White House's Juneteenth concert. Today is the federal holiday that honors the day the last enslaved African Americans in the U.S. learned they were free. 158 years ago today, soldiers from the Union Army rode into Galveston, Texas, and posted a written copy of the Emancipation Proclamation on the door of a local church. Joining us now, Pulitzer Prize winning historian and professor at Harvard, Annette Gordon-Reed. She's the author of the award winning book entitled On Juneteenth.

And Reverend Al, you have the first question. Yes. Thank you for being with us. You know, one of the things that I think a lot of people miss that you deal with in the book is that if it had not been for the Union Army coming in and posting it and protecting those enslaved, slavery would have continued, which is in many ways 100 years later with the civil rights movement asking for federal intervention. Even now, as many of us are dealing with those issues, it has always been a battle of the union or the federal government protecting people against states' rights. So in a contemporary setting, as we celebrate Juneteenth Day, talk about the policies that we still must extract from that that are relevant today about protecting the rights of those enslaved, of those that are treated unfairly, of those that are treated unequally is part of the lessons of this day. It's not about just drinking Kool-Aid and celebrating.

Yeah, no, the red soda water is a part of it, but it's not the only thing. No, I would suppose we're thinking about making real the kinds of promise of emancipation and what the former enslaved people expected when slavery ended. And the idea was to become a full citizen, to have full voting rights, to be treated equally, the right to make contracts and to protect your family, all of those kinds of things, the sort of political and civic rights that other Americans shared. So I would think continuing making real that particular promise is something that we're still working on. And so, Annette, what kinds of policies do you think are the most prominent, most important ones that are perhaps being overlooked or even

falling back given the division that we're facing today? Well, the first thing that comes to mind is voting rights and the concern about the capacity of all registered people, adults who are citizens of the United States, to be able to vote for their representatives. There are many things. I mean, we could think of the economic disparities that still exist and so forth. But I'm thinking about what the freedmen were thinking of and they wanted economic economic equity and they wanted to be able to make a living for themselves. They wanted to be able to vote. All of those kinds of things are still pertinent today. Let's bring in MSNBC correspondent Tremaine Lee into this conversation. Tremaine, you recently visited

Galveston, Texas, the origin of today's holiday. And what did you find out? That's right, Mika. Going back to Galveston, the birthplace of Juneteenth, and talking to folks there who said the one thing that was really important to folks, the formerly enslaved, one of the first things they did was buy up as much land as possible. Community matter. They want to build institutions and houses, but it was a threat at every turn. And even in the contemporary sense, it continues to be at risk of losing everything they built. So I went down there to talk to folks about those forces

that are colluding against the black community today. Let's take a listen. You're here on the southwest corner of 22nd and Strand where the Juneteenth story began. It's been 157 years since the very first Juneteenth celebration here on the island of Galveston in Texas, where the last of America's enslaved black people were finally freed. Sam Collins is the co-chair of the Juneteenth Legacy Project. We're at the colored church on Broadway where the Union soldiers would have moved through the city and posted the notice, General Order No. 3, on the door here. General Order No. 3 required

absolute equality, but for Galveston's Black community, equality has been anything but absolute. People talk about Black Wall Street and Tulsa, but there were many communities that were successful outside of those stories of places that were destroyed. Galveston was one of those thriving communities. He says low-paying jobs, a rising cost of living, young and middle-class Black folks fleeing for better opportunities elsewhere, all drained historic neighborhoods. And then in 2008, a near-death blow to the Black community, Hurricane Ike. Tonight, Galveston is a soaked and shattered disaster zone. Seventy-five percent of Galveston's houses and other buildings were taken out by the storm, including nearly 600 units of public housing. The primarily Black residents who lived there

had no choice but to relocate. Between 2000 and 2010, Galveston's Black population plummeted by 37 percent. The city was eventually forced by the federal government to bring some public housing units back. Then came the pandemic. As struggling families dislocated, Galveston drew in wealthy investors. So many of the homes that used to be occupied by Black families are now short-term rentals. Black families moving in? No, I have almost never heard of any Black families moving in at all. Generations of June Pulliam's family grew up in Galveston in this century-old clapboard house by the gulf. I recognize this front porch. Yes, that's the front porch of where we are now. This is

my great-grandfather Ralph Albert Skull who was five the year of Juneteenth. Folks used to call this place Island of Color, a name that's faded with time. I guess what's at stake is just the preservation of this very important history. They made homes for themselves. They educated themselves. They formed organizations. I want to bring back black folks having some economic influence on the island. Longtime resident Anthony Griffin is breathing new life into old Black Galveston. We want to put commercial

development there, place a hotel on the other side of the street. We own three or four lots on the other side. His plan? Buy up as much land as he can to house and employ families still fighting for the true freedom that was promised. If you don't have economic opportunity, if you don't own land, if you're not able to participate fully in the American dream, you can't ever have absolute equality. Mika, despite everything this community is going through, they are resolute and strong and trying to make sure they hold on to everything they built over the years. But because of these economic forces, these natural forces, folks are struggling, but they're standing strong, Mika. MSNBC correspondent Tremaine Lee, thank you so

much for that report. We appreciate it. And Annette, let's talk a little bit again, just to the history behind the event. I loved your book. And first of all, I loved your your it's not an ambivalent relationship with Texas. It's not like Faulkner's. I love the South. I hate the South. But it is just so fascinating about how you really love Texas. You identify as a Texan. But then you look back at what happened then, what's happening now. And it is a very, very complicated relationship you have with that state. Yes, it is. And I'm actually in Austin now, and it's 103 degrees, so it's quite complicated. Yeah, it's a very, very, it's a complicated situation because Texas is where I grew up.

I learned to, you know, my parents loved me, my brothers, my grandparents. I think of community and family when I think of Texas. That's what draws me to the place. But I know that there are lots of problems. And certainly the country is aware of Texas's problems because it's in the news quite a bit. But I just have hope for it. I mean, that segment that you did before where you have the person who's taking measures to try to build economic strength in Galveston, who hasn't given up hope and wants to do something for the community is very heartening to me. And, you know, I love to see that kind of thing. And again, just the background, it's so remarkable that when we think of the end of the Civil War, we think about April of 1865. We think about Appomattox. We think about, and everybody

considers that the end, but as you write, and as you explain, there are a lot of people across the South, a lot of slaveholders in Texas that did not want to give up human beings as their property. No, it was their property. They had come to Texas from Georgia and Alabama and other places trying to make sure that they would be in a place where they could safeguard their property rights, but as property and human beings, and they didn't want to give up. So there was recalcitrance. What we're thinking about, one of the things that they're alluded to in the segment before is the fact that, you know, slavery ended, but that didn't end the notion of a racial hierarchy. And so there were people, the former enslavers, who enacted violence and put in place other measures that were designed

to keep black people as near to slavery as possible. So it was a continuing struggle. It was the end of something, but it was the beginning of something else. So that is black people's attempt in Texas to make better lives for themselves. All right. And that Gordon Reed, as always, we love having you on. Thanks so much for being here. All right. Coming up on Morning Joe. Great to see you. Two Republican senators are coming to Donald Trump's defense in the classified document case. Wonder who they are. I don't know. We're going to debunk their claims just ahead. And we're also following the latest out of Beijing, where Secretary of State Anthony Blinken has just wrapped up meetings

with Chinese President Xi Jinping. Morning Joe is back in just a moment. And now the stage is clear for Wyndham Clark. Who takes down all the stars in Los Angeles to win the United States Open. Wow. Wyndham Clark held off a talented group of challengers to win the U.S. Open yesterday in Los Angeles. It is his first major championship. Clark had never finished better than 75th in any major. But yesterday, he carded an even par for a 10-under total score,

one stroke better than Rory McIlroy, whose nine-year major championship drought continues. Clark also became only the fourth player in the past 100 years to win the U.S. Open after making the cut for the first time in the tournament. A beautiful story. His mom passed away when she was 54, breast cancer, and told him to play big. And he definitely took her advice. And he said he carried that with him on what a day. What a day. And Lori had a great run and missed a couple of easy putts along the way that could have made a difference. But, yeah, a very exciting tournament.

I just wish Jonathan Lemire things had turned out differently up in Boston this weekend because I'm afraid, to quote Admiral Yamamoto, I fear that all we've done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with terrible resolve the yankees are probably going to beat us by 30 games this year i don't even talk about us sweeping i don't even talk about us sweeping the yankees it makes me very uncomfortable because you know they're just going to beat us It's going to be worse in coming series, Jonathan. It does feel like any celebration is tempting fate. I agree with that.

But the Red Sox, look, they swept the double. That's true, Mika. The Red Sox swept the doubleheader yesterday. They swept the series against the Yankees. And they have now beaten the Yankees five out of their first six games this year. Now, to be clear, that Yankee lineup is not the same without Aaron Judge. They really didn't hit. But the Red Sox had a knack.

They came through in the clutch a few different times. They got some good pitching. And for first-time all-season, flashed some leather, Joe. They're one of the worst defenses in the league. Incredible catches. Yeah, one of the worst defenses in the league. Incredible catches. Yeah, one of the worst defenses in the league to this point, but they made great catch after great catch, including Duran there in the triangle with a basket catch.

I'm not sure I've ever seen that before. So at least we have this, this one shiny moment, Joe. It'll be fleeting. This will be this feeling of joy. We'll pass soon. Yeah. But at least we had a Father's Day sweep against the New York Angels. We're like, you know. Happy Father's Day sweep against the New York Yankees. We're like,

you know, Happy Father's Day. What is it? What is it? Seven year cicadas? What is it? 19 years? Whatever it is.

It's more than a deck. Yeah. 17 years. 17 years. But you know the old saying that, you know, even a blind squirrel

can find a nut once in a while. This weekend, found three. All right.