Morning Joe - Morning Joe 6/19/24

Episode Date: June 19, 2024

Trump pressed about staying in Milwaukee in TV interview ahead of convention

Right now, millions of Americans across the country are getting blasted by a brutal heat wave. Yep, this week when you open the weather app, it just shows you the middle finger emoji. It'll be so hot in Maine this week, the lobsters will be getting in pots just to cool down. It is, it's so hot in New York this week, the rats are wearing crop tops. It is, it's so hot in New York this week, the rats are wearing crop tops. It's so hot in South Dakota, Christine Holmes. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It's going to be very hot Wednesday, June 19th. June 10th.

With us, let's bring in the host of Way Too Early, White House Bureau Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, former White House Director of Communications for President Obama, Jim Palmieri, president of the National Action Network and host of MSNBC's Politics Nation's Reverend Al Sharpton and professor at Princeton University, Eagle Out Junior. So good to have you all with us. We're going to get to some record setting heat first. But but Rev, let's talk about today and Juneteenth and why it's so important. It's very important. Juneteenth is really a celebration, but also a reminder that after Abraham Lincoln had signed the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863, those in Texas were not even aware they had been freed until June 19, 1865. For two and a half years, slaves continued to work as slaves in Texas until the Union Army came in and made it clear they were free and enforced it. And the reason I think it's so important, Joe, today is the issues in this election for people like me is around states' rights, where you have states. I was in Florida last night trying to ban books, trying to stop women's right to choose.

It's an issue that's still alive. States rights against the union, the federal government protecting women, protecting blacks and protecting us all. History studies and other things. And the ability to communicate when you get your news from the wrong source, you can be freed and don't even know it. Yeah. And Eddie Glow, it's one more striking reminder that even when progress is made, we have to keep striving to enforce those laws, keep striving to move toward a more perfect union. Absolutely, Joe. And just to echo what Rev just said, you know, freedom is not an end. It's not something that happens and then we can just wipe, you know, clean our hands and just move forward.

Freedom is a practice. Freedom is a practice. That is that we have to constantly defend it in our lived relationships with each other. And Juneteenth reminds us of this. And I want to be very, very clear here. Juneteenth is not just simply a holiday for black folk. Juneteenth is a national holiday for the nation to really understand its journey on, you know, in relation to this very, very vexed question of what do we mean by our commitment to freedom, Joe? And we're still grappling with that question today, still grappling with it and will for a very long time. The goal is to be moving in the right direction.

And that's a lot about what the next six months is about. Let's talk about off the top. But what we heard, which is, I mean, it is hot. It is it is hot across the Northeast. There are record temperatures across a lot of the country. It's led officials to declare emergencies as the heat index is soaring over 100 degrees from Texas, yes, to Maine. A heat dump continues to hover over the Midwest and East Coast. About 150 million people experienced temperatures above 90 degrees yesterday and more than 100 record highs are going to be possible today through Saturday. Even nighttime lows could bring records for heat. There also may be no wind in sight.

According to forecasters, most of the country is expected to see higher than usual temperatures for at least the next three to four weeks. And this should come as no surprise. According to NASA, the last 10 years have been the hottest on record. And Jim Palmieri, I'm just sorry. I don't know where climate deniers go. I'm not talking about the forecast this week. I'm not talking about what's going to happen next week. I'm talking about what's happened over the past 20 years. One record after another record after another record is broken. And over the last 10 years and all of the numbers one through 10 are the last 10 years. And it just keeps getting worse. And it's and it's not just the heat. It's like it's the extreme weather.

It's the weird it's the weird it's the microburst storms. And, you know, a lot of people accept that things have changed. Whether or not they accept that human actions are responsible for it and there's something that can be done about it is a big question. But there is, it does feel that, and I think that Pauline shows that people are understanding that there has been a change and it's something that people have to adapt to. But the, I mean, I think a heat dome, that's new, right? I don't I don't ever remember hearing that term before. So, Jonathan, Jonathan O'Meara, you're our practicing meteorologist here. Heat dome. What what in the world is that? Yeah, I don't have my board to point to with the forecast.

But no, we've had heat domes before, sadly. But it's when basically the heat shows up and it gets stuck. And I believe the jet stream has a role here. See, it keeps it in place. Look, that's what I heard from Michelle Grossman about an hour ago. But what it means is punishing heat for days and not going anywhere. And it's also something where further evidence of climate change, but also disproportionately impacts the least advantaged in our country. The poor live in whether it's urban or rural areas. And I think that, you know, certainly we encourage everyone to try to stay cool as possible this next week or so and check on your neighbors.

And especially if they're elderly or vulnerable during what's going to be a really tough few days. All right. There's our weather report and also our community action bulletin board by Jonathan O'Meara. We all, of course, agree with him. You do wear a lot of hats. So let's talk, Jonathan, about the dust up yesterday, about Donald Trump, who can't really seem to stop from kicking the most important city in American politics over the next six months. That, of course, is the largest city in Wisconsin, which is seen as the ultimate swing state. Of course, he's now backtracking. But he was, according to the Chicago police, he was planning to stay in Chicago during the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee. And his about face came after reporters found out that he was going to be staying in the Windy City instead of Milwaukee when it reportedly involved Trump staying at a Trump Tower in the Windy City, commuting 90 miles

north, all so he could stay out of Milwaukee overnight. Of course, Trump lied and told NBC that he had planned to stay in Milwaukee all along. But hours later, Chicago law enforcement confirmed that they were, in fact, planning security for a Trump stay during the RNC convention as recently as yesterday and had been coordinating safety measures, both the Trump campaign in person and by phone. According to the chair of the city council's public safety committee, the Trump campaign abruptly changed their minds yesterday and communicated with the city to say, we're not coming to see the Cubs after all. Trump's been on the defensive, of course, about his views in Milwaukee after he told Republican lawmakers in a private meeting last week that the city was, quote, horrible.

One week later, when he's in Wisconsin, he's saying that he, quote, loves Milwaukee. Jonathan O'Meara, again, you think they could handle this a little bit better, but the guy just obviously has contempt for Milwaukee. Doesn't matter how much people spend it on Fox News, because I heard some people, even on Howie Kurtz's show, trying to spend it, that it was misinformation what was said about Milwaukee. Now, not not if you take what Republicans were saying in the room, the fact they were going around in circles saying, oh, no, he didn't say it. And then they find out later that he admitted to saying it. Oh, yeah. And it's just back and forth and back and forth. But obviously, he like a lot of Republicans in Wisconsin have a real problem with Milwaukee.

Yeah. Joe, first I did meteorology. Now I'll do geography. Chicago, not in Wisconsin have a real problem with Milwaukee. Yeah, Joe, first I did meteorology. Now I'll do geography. Chicago, not in Wisconsin. Chicago is not in Wisconsin. Chicago in Illinois, a state that's going to safely go Democratic. Milwaukee, though, is the biggest city in arguably the biggest battleground state on the map in Wisconsin. And this is not new for Trump. Trump, back in 2016, the RNC was slated to be was in Cleveland. He attacked Cleveland repeatedly, probably saying he didn't understand why the RNC would be there. He's doing the same here. And Trump is a known creature of habit. He likes to sleep in his own bed each night on campaign trail. He flies back and forth in order just to get back to Mar-a-Lago or Bedminster or wherever it might be. And in this case, he was going to go to Trump Tower in Chicago,

that hotel there. But Jen, this points to a bigger issue. I mean, the Biden campaign, their theory of the case all along has been once Trump was returned to the campaign trail, once the trial was over, Americans start tuning in over the summer and then more and more in the fall, that Trump's going to keep making self-destructive acts or comments. This feels like it could be one of them. And even if he alienates just a percentage of Wisconsin voters, maybe not Milwaukee residents, the city's probably not going to go for him, but maybe some suburban residents who have pride in Milwaukee or the Brewers or whatever it might be. It's a big unforced error. Yeah. Or the Bucs, right? I wondered wondered why he had I mean, I did not realize that about Cleveland as well, that he would that he would trash talk Cleveland in 2016. He doesn't I mean, this is a thing, right? He wants to stay in Trump hotels, right?

Like there's not a Trump hotel in Milwaukee and that's why he wants to stay in Chicago. But also, I wonder if he doesn't want to be someplace where he loses. And if he's not loved in Milwaukee and he's not loved in Wisconsin, he's lost in Wisconsin before if he doesn't want to go back there. And I do think, you know, I know that some Republicans in Wisconsin don't love Milwaukee either,

but it does seem to like get at some kind of pride of the state when you're attacking their, you know, you're attacking their biggest city. And the more he's on you know there's a lot of crazy stuff they said when he was in wisconsin last night the more he's on the campaign trail the more fodder there is for this this kind of thing but what do you like make on how this well i think that uh i've noticed he's been very selective on the cities that he attacks they usually have black mayors they They usually have a large urban community.

And I had the mayor of Milwaukee on Politics Nation the other night, and we talked about that. You know, he never attacks certain cities who has some of the same challenges. But I think that we're getting ahead of ourselves. He has a sentencing four days before the convention, and who knows, the judge may have other accommodations prepared for him. I think that we're getting ahead of ourselves. He has a sentencing four days before the convention. And who knows, the judge may have other accommodations prepared for him. I don't know.

It's maybe unlikely, but I wouldn't rule it out. We shall see. Stay tuned on that front. But Eddie, I mean, the ref really just, I mean, he broke the code, really. I mean, after Trump trashed Milwaukee, people were saying, oh, he would never say that. And then, OK, well, we found out he did say that. And they made a lot of difference. It was about crime. It was about the Brewers Middle Relievers.

It was about this. It was about that. No, it wasn't. He trashed Milwaukee. But if you read the articles surrounding it, Republicans in Wisconsin have been trashing Milwaukee for a very long time. And it's all, as the ref said, it's about cities with urban populations, with black mayors. Republicans have always talked that way about Philadelphia. Oh, they're going to just sit and wait and see how many black votes they can steal in Philadelphia because Philadelphia is so corrupt or Detroit. You know,

David Frum has a piece out about Donald Trump trashing Detroit. Again, it all comes down to, you know, we heard what he said about Africa and about Caribbean nations. you might as well say it about cities, too, where there's a predominantly black population. Chances are very, very good that Donald Trump is not going to like that city. Right, Joe. And then you add that to his conspiracy theory that these are the places that led to the election being stolen. Remember when he was talking about 2020, what was happening?

It was what was going on in Atlanta. What was happening right in Milwaukee? What was happening in Detroit? What was happening in Philadelphia? So it makes it difficult for him to be in Milwaukee making the case, right, that the election was stolen in 2020, right? When in fact, he's actually holding his convention in the very city that he thinks participated in the heist, as it were. So not only is it racist, Joe, it kind of cuts against

the grain of the theory that he's been spouting ever since he lost the election. Yeah, happening right now, Russian President Vladimir Putin's meeting with Kim Jong-un and earlier today, the North Korean leader hosted Putin for a lavish welcome ceremony with portraits of both leaders strewn atop surrounding buildings throughout the nearby streets. Think Washington, D.C. in 2025 if Donald Trump wins. It's been 24 years since Putin visited the reclusive nation as his war on Ukraine stretches into another summer. North Korea's ability to arm Russia with weapons and artillery is critical for Putin's war aims. And as both leaders face escalating standoffs with the West, we're learning they signed a deal to help each other in case the other is attacked. Let's bring in Roger's chair of American presidency at Vanderbilt University historian John Meacham.

John, we really are seeing a shift here. There was a time not so long ago when Russia was largely dependent on Germany and other countries in the European Union to help fuel their economy. Obviously, China has been depending more and more on Europe and the West for quite some time. You're now really seeing, quoting David Frum, who we just talked about a great piece he has in The Atlantic about Detroit. You're really seeing this axis of evil with Russia, North Korea, communist China, the most repressive communist nations on Earth. Putin would like to call himself a communist leader, but the most repressive nations on Earth coming together to unite against the West, to unite against NATO, to unite against America, to unite against freedom.

And I've got to say, the most frightening part of that, I mean, because standing alone doesn't cause a concern if you look at our economic might and our military might. But the most concerning part of that alliance is that Donald Trump considers himself to be close friends with every one of those tyrants. That's the picture that we should all focus on right now. It is arguably the most important part of this unfolding political campaign is that the Republican nominee wants to be in that frame. He wants to be walking through squares like that. He, by his own admission, he admires that. He admires the authoritarianism. He admires the toughness. And I would just say to all of my friends and your friends, too, who consider themselves Reagan Republicans, look at these images and explain to me, explain to us why somehow or another it is in the American interest to support Vladimir Putin against United against American intelligence agencies, against American interest, against the longstanding, sometimes ambivalent, sometimes

unsuccessful, sometimes contradictory, but persistent support of democracies around the world on the part of the United States. Our collective security after World War II was based on the idea that democracies tended not to go to war with each other. Autocracies tended to go to war against democracies. That is the pattern. And it doesn't necessarily predict the future, but it's a pretty good diagnostic guide. And if you want to understand the global stakes of what we're facing, those are the images to show. You know, it's what's so remarkable here,

John, is John Meacham, is that you look at Donald Trump's words, and we've talked time and time again about the Peter Millar Republicans in the clubhouse sitting there. Well, it's Republican versus Democrat. And Biden, he's a socialist. How's your 401k? Oh, making more money than ever. How's your stocks?

Breaking records every day. But he's a socialist. So, you know, I'm just going to vote for the Republican acting as if this is Dole versus Clinton in 1996. Let's look at the words and your friends and my friends. How do they justify the fact that they're still considering voting for a guy who called President Xi, the head of the Chinese Communist Party, who asked him at Moralago reportedly about building concentration camps for Ouijers and Trump offhandedly said, yeah, sure. Yeah, sounds great. Who called, he praised President Xi as being incredibly powerful with an iron fist, a brilliant guy with an iron fist and respected the fact he had an iron fist and could repress over a billion of his citizens. He called Vladimir Putin's invasion of Russia brilliant.

Brilliant. I say that to all of your friends at the 19th hole and my friends. And then, of course, went on and on about his love letters to Kim Jong-un, a man who's considered to be the most bloodthirsty communist tyrant on the face of the globe. This is who your friends, some of your friends, some of my friends, some of your family, some of my family and everybody on Fox News is supporting. It's it's one of the great puzzles of and I mean this, I can argue the domestic side. I understand. I don't agree with it, but I understand the taxes and judges argument for domestically supporting the Republican nominee, whoever it might be. And boy, we have now tested three times whoever it might be. But this one doesn't make sense to me. This is a party whose modern incarnation,

most recent incarnation before the Trumpification of it was Ronald Reagan's philosophy of the Cold War. We win, they lose. Right. It was a negotiating position from the former president of the Screen Actors Guild who called him an evil empire and then brought Gorbachev to the table. And the Soviet Union falls on George H.W. Bush's watch Christmas Day 1991 without a single American troop being in a forward combat position. Something unimaginable. But it was the product, yes, of a bipartisan coalition where we argued about the relative projection of force against Soviet tyranny. But we never argued about the fact of Soviet tyranny, not in a serious way. Here you have a three-time Republican nominee for president, right? Which is only, let's see, Nixon got it four times. That's the record. So Donald Trump

is closing in on Richard Nixon and his record for winning the Republican presidential nomination. We have a nominee who argues that Russia is a more reliable partner than his own intelligence agencies and supports the rawest kind of aggression against neighbors, which is the tenet of the international order. Right. So how does and I'm not asking this in sort of a MSNBC hyperbolic, you know, moment. How does a Reagan Bush Republican support a Republican nominee who puts not America first, but Putin first? How do you justify it? Well, and and not not just Jonathan Amir, not just Putin first over his own intel chiefs that he appointed. And of course, you asked that question. But again, praises the leader of

communist China as a brilliant man with an iron fist, praises the fact that he's able to repress over a billion of his people, that he's able to put Ouijers, a million Ouijers in concentration camps. Kim Jong-un, again, talking about love letters and what a remarkable relationship he has with Kim Jong-un. Again, this is, as John said, I mean, this is what moved my family, who were Cold Warriors all along, from the Democratic to the Republican Party. It's why my dad loved Reagan. Well, first Nixon and then Reagan so much because they were tough on on communists. They were tough on tyrants. They were tough on on on on dictators like Kim Jong Un, who threatens the West all the time, who threatens America all the time. Tough, tough on on on people like I mean, I could go on and on down the list. But John's, of course, exactly right.

This is what held the Republican Party together for so long. That was the fact that we were we were all children of Reagan. We you know, we supported we believed in Western democracy. We believed in Western freedoms and believed that there was, in fact, a battle between East and West politically and ideology. It defined Dr. Brzezinski's life. It defined Dr. Brzezinski's life. It defined Dr. Brzezinski's writings. And like Reagan, he had a very simple view. And most Republicans had this view as well. The strategy for Dr. Brzezinski, the strategy for Ronald Reagan, the strategy for Jean Kirkpatrick,

the strategy for Madeleine Albright, the strategy for Robert Gates, we win, they lose. Donald Trump has it completely reversed. He attacks democratically elected leaders in Europe who are freely elected, and he admires and praises communist tyrants. And again, the point there is, again, that's who the Republican Party is lining up behind this year like they did four years ago, like they did eight years ago. And they wonder why they keep losing. Yeah, if there's a strongman out there,

Donald Trump has tried to cozy up to him. And this is not a secret. He's doing it in plain sight. Republicans know this, and yet they're voting for him anyway. Someone who would praise Putin, Kim Jong-un, Xi Jinping, and the rest. And we know the preservation of democracy is a core tenant for the Biden campaign. They feel like that worked in 2020, largely on domestic issues. They now feel like it's even more important in the post-January 6th world, but also internationally with what we're seeing in Ukraine, the war there, that this is Putin, an autocrat, trying to illegally seize a democracy in Ukraine. And they feel like this will matter again,

that it's not something that always is picked up in the polls, that this is not an issue that is as buzzy as, say, as inflation or other matters or whether Joe Biden is too old. But they think that among a core group of Americans, in particular, older Americans who remember the Cold War, who care about these things, who care about standing up for democracy, that this will matter, Joe, that this is an issue that will matter come November. All right. And still ahead on Morning Joe, we're going to take a look at the life and the legacy of one of baseball's greatest and most beloved players,

Willie Mays, the say hey kid who passed away yesterday at the age of 93. We're back in 90 seconds. If you watch baseball as much as my family and I watch baseball, you know that this is the catch in Major League Baseball history against which all other remarkable

catches are measured. That is Hall of Famer Willie Mays making the most of his famous catch in history and game during the 54 World Series, which his team would ultimately win. The baseball legend passed away yesterday at the age of 93. Known as the say-hey kid, Mays had the rare combination of power and speed and defense, playing center field for New York and the San Francisco Giants. Mays was a 24-time All-Star, a two-time MVP.

He won 12 gold gloves, hit 660 home runs, which is sixth all-time. All of that despite missing two seasons in the early 1950s while serving in the Army during the Korean War. Mays was a first ballot Hall of Famer, of course, in 1979. He was the oldest living Hall of Famer, of course, in 1979. He was the oldest living Hall of Famer until his death yesterday. The World Series MVP trophy is also named after him. In 2015, he was awarded the Medal of Freedom by then President Barack Obama. We told the audience that day that it's because of giants like Willie that someone like me could even think about running for president. Moving words from

President Obama with us now to reflect on his legacy, MSNBC contributor Mike Barnicle and longtime sports columnist and New York Times bestselling author Mike Lupica. Mike Barnicle, how do you put into words all that Willie Mays did and all that Willie Mays meant to baseball and America? Well, it's pretty hard to put it into words, Joe. But that clip taken on September 29th, 1954, Willie racing out to center field, deep center field in the old polo grounds to make that spectacular catch. The game was two to two. It was the top of the eighth inning. Willie Mays from Birmingham, Alabama, made that catch. He is the greatest major league player in history ever. There's no doubt about that. But it's also

indicative of how much has changed in the game and in America. I mean, that game was a Wednesday afternoon game, a World Series game played on Wednesday afternoon. I mean, that game was a Wednesday afternoon game, a World Series game played on Wednesday afternoon. I remember watching that game vividly, standing on Main Street in the neighborhood that I grew up in, watching the game on a TV set in the window of a furniture store because there weren't a lot of TVs around. And I was watching the TV in that window

with a crowd of people around. It was also indicative of the fact that so many black ballplayers, maybe just as great as Willie Mays, were never given the chance to be Willie Mays. And this Saturday or I think Thursday, actually, in Brickwood Field in Birmingham, Alabama, the home of the Birmingham Black Barons, the Giants, San Francisco Giants now are playing the St. Louis Cardinals. And Willie was supposed to be there. I can remember having dinner with Willie Mays here in New York. And the amazing thing about him and a lot of other ballplayers, he could remember every pitch he ever took or every pitch he ever hit off of who he hit it in the major leagues. He was absolutely the greatest player ever to play the game and also a spectacular human being. And also Mike Lubick, another kid from the state

that my all-time sports hero was from, Hank Aaron. They shared a lot of similarities. Two of the greatest players to ever play the game. I've got to say, though, many would agree with Mike Barnicle that Willie Mays was the greatest all-around player of all time. What do you say? When you watch that catch in the 54 World Series, you remember a great line from an old baseball man named Fresco Thompson who said,

Willie Mays' glove is where triples go to die, and did again that day. Reggie Jackson had such a great description of what Willie Mays was like on a baseball field. He said, with Babe Ruth, you wanted to see him do one thing. He said, with Willie, you wanted to see him do one thing. He said with Willie, you wanted to see him do everything. And the only thing that you can tell younger people is he was Michael Jordan at that time. Vince Scully once told me Willie Mays is someone we must pass on, that he wasn't just someone relegated to the past. He's the greatest pound for pound baseball player who ever lived. Joe, he hit 660 home runs and spent most of his career in Candlestick Park in the wind and the cold and the rain. So there's no telling how many home runs he missed out on.

He was 5'11". He brought the basket catch. His cap flew up. He played the game with flair. Johnny Keene, the old Cardinals manager, called him the magic man. And that's what he was. I heard someone say one time, the genius is something that you look at and think, well, if I got really good, I could do that. And then there was magic. And Willie Mays, from the start of his career, even when he was old, there was magic. I was standing with him in spring training when he came down one time to coach with the Mets. And he said, what bothers me is people who only saw me when I was old forget what I was like when I was young. And I said, with all due respect, sir, no, they haven't forgotten. No, no, they have not, nor will they,

as long as the game of baseball is played. You know, it's so fascinating, Jonathan Lemire, that Mike Lupica is so right, that Willie Mays was Michael Jordan 30 years before Michael Jordan was Michael Jordan. What's so fascinating is Michaels was Michael Jordan 30 years before Michael Jordan was Michael Jordan. What's so fascinating is Michael Jordan was Michael Jordan 20 years after the Civil Rights Act passed, after America had gone through some pretty dramatic changes on race. Willie Mays was doing what Willie Mays was doing and was a hero to millions of kids in the 50s and in the 60s. Like a good bit of Hank Aaron's career before the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act

passed and a hero to so many. And just like Jackie Robinson, a guy that actually did so much more than just star in baseball games. He he helped lead America out of the dark ages on civil rights, like so many, so many baseball heroes. Yeah. Thursday's game in Alabama is going to be a beautiful, important moment. It was always going to be a beautiful important moment it was always going to be about willie mays now it still will be but with a touch of sadness of course now that he has passed certainly the best all-around baseball player we have ever seen here's my favorite stat uh he won 12 gold gloves as noted no outfielder has ever won more the gold glove award wasn't invented until six years into his career.

So he probably would have had 15 or 16 more in total. A truly, truly extraordinary. But Reverend, let's get let's get you in on where Joe was starting to talk there about his impact, not just on the field, but off the field, what he meant for for black Americans and Americans writ large. He meant more than you could really put in the words. I grew up in the 60s and 70s. And you must remember in the 60s and 70s, the baseball giants, particularly in New York. I grew up in Brooklyn with Mickey Mantle and Roger Maris. Mays was the one that made us feel like we could be part of america's pastime and uh i was a little too young to know when jackie i wasn't born when jackie robertson broke the color line

but willie mays broke that color line in that age before the civil rights act 64 was civil rights act 65 voting rights act so toward the end of the 60s, you had a Muhammad Ali that was a rebel, the guy that played for us every day, that made us feel like we were part of the American mainstream, was Willie Mays. And he did make a lot of speeches. When I met him a couple of times, I used to say that he wasn't a guy that spoke like Hank Aaron.

He spoke with his bat and with his skill. But we could go to school. I'm in elementary school at that time. We could go to school without chess out every time he caught a ball because it made us feel like we belonged even before legislation made it so that we did belong. And this is the key, Rev. I mean, for me as a country boy from Moss Point, Mississippi, looking at Willie Mays, well beyond, I'm young, so I never really saw him play. But he's from Birmingham, Alabama, Hank Aaron, Mobile, Alabama, right? These Southerners who are out there doing amazing things.

What they illustrated and what Mays illustrated, at least for me as a young Southern kid, was excellence. Right. Right. That is to say, you own your craft. You be the best at it as possible. And so it's through his example of excellence, not through his mouth, not by speaking. That's right. He spoke against Jim Crow in a very specific way, Mike.

You know, when he made that catch at the age of 23, it was his first full season in the major leagues, 1954. Where had he been prior to that? Serving in the United States Army. That's right. That's right. Absolutely. Wow. Yeah. You know, there's Mike and the say, hey, kid. And what what what a baseball player. What is what a hero for for for millions of young boys and girls and their families.

So remembering Willie Mays this morning. And Mike Lupica, we saw what happened with Mookie Betts a couple of days ago. Last night, a huge sigh of relief in Yankees world after Aaron Judge was hit on the hand by a fastball in the third inning. They have to leave the game. Oh, I just I hate seeing that. I mean, ball gets away from pitchers and man, that is just so brutal. But anyway, he went to the hospital for testing where the results from the X-ray and the CAT scan on the hand came back negative. As for the games, the Yankees won 4-2 and now hold a two and a half game lead over the O's in the division. And I've just got to say, Mike Lupica, Red Sox, man, looking pretty good. Sadan Raphael just doing some extraordinary things.

You know, the Red Sox, again, for making their trades in the offseason with little more than all-you-can-eat buffet coupons to Barn Hills Buffet in Pensacola, Florida. They put together a pretty good team. They are in the top ten, Jack Scarborough tells me. They are in the top ten in both run scored and team ERA. I'm not sure how Alex Cora is holding it together and Andrew Bailey, but they're holding it together. Joe, let me tell you something.

Last winter, the big free agent in baseball was Shohei Otani. If the Red Sox don't sign Alex Cora, who is doing the best managing job in the whole sport with what he has, the most valuable free agent next winter is going to be the current manager of the Boston Red Sox. Yeah, no doubt about it. Cora, year in and year out, does more with less than any manager. He's got a couple of kids that are of age where they're starting to play baseball,

and he may want to take a year or two off if the Red Sox aren't serious about resigning him, aren't serious about winning World Series anytime soon. And then you are right, Mike. That guy on the open market, whoa. He's going to almost be able to name his price. Joe, if Craig Council is worth $10 million a year to the Chicago Cubs, what is Alex Cora going to be worth if he hits the open market? Yeah, please.

Well, let's hope. As Red Sox fans, I hope that he doesn't hit the open market, but you can't. I mean, I don't know what they're going to what what what Red Sox management's going to want to buy next. You know, maybe they'll buy, you know, maybe they'll decide to take over Australian rules football leagues or something like that and not have the money to re-sign him. We'll see. Anyway, New York Times bestselling author Mike Lupica, thank you so much. Always great to have you here. And coming up, former Treasury official and Morning Joe economic analyst Steve Ratner is here to debunk Donald Trump's constant lie about unemployment for black people during his presidency. Also, Steve and John Meacham and I

are going to talk about really troubling projections from the Congressional Budget Office about a national debt over the next 20 years that could cripple this country economically if we don't get serious about it soon. Morning Joe. A look at LAX at 347 a.m. in the morning on the West Coast. The nation's second largest school district is one step closer to banning the use of cell phones and social media by students during the school day. The Los Angeles United School District Board of Education passed a proposal yesterday. School staff are now going to begin developing policies over the next four months for the ban. Proponents pointed to research on the effects of cell phones and the potential for distraction on learning. Let me say that again. The potential, the potential for distraction on learning. Yeah, please. We're going to have more on this ahead in our fourth hour.

The question is, why wasn't this done years ago? I'm glad that school districts are looking at it now. The Congressional Budget Office, by the way, is now forecasting a 400 billion dollar increase for this year's budget deficit. That number is 27 percent higher than the budget watchdog's original estimate back in February. Social Security and Medicare are among the key factors driving those costs up. The CBO is projecting that the nation's debt is going to top $56 trillion by 2034 as spending and interest expenses continue to outpace tax revenues? Steve Ratner, let me bring you in. Former Treasury official and Morning Joe economic analyst Steve Ratner with us as well as John Meacham. Steve, you know, when I ran for Congress, I was complaining about a $4 trillion debt.

A deficit was around $250, $300 million, breaking records. This seemed to be unmanageable. It kept exploding through the Bush years, exploding through the Obama years. And then it just spiked, precipitously went up when Republicans and Donald Trump were in power over four years, the national debt went up more in Donald Trump's four years than any time over the past 230, 35 years, all the other presidents before him. And it continues to go up. And whether there's a Republican or Democrat in power, unless something dramatic is done, it will continue to go up over the next 10, 15 years. Talk about the risks that we face as a nation and what we need to do to bring that debt down. So first of all, Joe, the risks are

enormous. But just to put this in a little bit of historical context, as you as you well know, President Clinton left office with a surplus in the budget. We still had debt, but at least we were starting to pay it down. And then George W. Bush came into office and famously Cheney said to him, deficits don't matter. Reagan proved that. And they passed two rounds of tax cuts, eliminated the surplus. And we went off into deficit land where we have been ever since. And obviously we had crises like 2008 that we had to respond to. And there was a pretty valiant effort by President Obama after that to try to get the deficit down. But we didn't make that much progress. And then Trump came along with this huge tax cut that he

said would be paid for. And it turns out it ended up costing almost two trillion dollars, according to CBO numbers, of extra debt simply from his one tax cut. And we had covid, which we had to deal with, obviously. And now here's where we are, as you just said. I think the the danger is a couple of dangers. The first danger is that if Trump comes back, his tax cuts actually expire mostly next year. He wants to extend them. The CBO has said that would cost four trillion more dollars to extend his tax cuts. So that's more debt. And and there's really no sense anymore that we need to bring the deficit down, although President Biden does have a policy that would bring it down

somewhat. But the urgency is not there. What are the dangers? Look, there are two potential dangers. One is something cataclysmic where we wake up one day and the people who buy our debt now, which are actually heavily Americans, not the Chinese anymore as much, but a lot of American pension funds, they suddenly wake up and say, we're worried and we're just not going to buy all this debt or it's just too much debt for us to buy. And then you have a huge increase in interest rates and a huge increase in the federal government's borrowing rates. The other potential outcome, which I think is slightly more likely, is what is a little bit like the parable of the boiled frog, that we just keep adding

debt and interest costs to our budget. And those interest costs just keep pushing out all the other important things we need to do in government priorities. You know, everything from spending to national parks, to cleaning up the environment, whatever you want to do is government priorities. You know, everything from spending to national parks to cleaning up the environment, whatever you want to do is going to get squeezed out as we have to pay more and more interest on that debt. So, Steve, what percentage of the GDP is our debt now? I know it's over 100 percent. Yeah, it's just a bit over 100 percent, but obviously heading high. Oh, no, you did ask me also, like, what's why?

What do we do about it? What's part of the problem? A lot of the problem is that we have cut taxes so much. And so the federal government's tax rate as a share of the GDP, which used to be just under 19, just under 20 percent, around 19 percent, is now more like 16 percent because of all these tax cuts. And so we you know, look, it's not something that politically is so easy to say, but we have to raise taxes. Obviously, we have to raise taxes on the people and the companies that can most afford them. But we are we're operating in a fantasy land right now where we can have all these tax cuts and these deficits and not have to worry about the debt. So taxes have to go up. Trump wants to cut them again. That is completely irresponsible. And John Meacham, just to go through these numbers, just for anybody out there that is under the mistaken impression that there's one party that cares more about deficits or debt than the other. It's just not the case.

When I left Congress in 2001, we had a $155 billion surplus. George W. Bush became president. The national debt was $5.6 trillion. It jumped up to over $11 trillion. Barack Obama became president. It went from 11 trillion to 19 trillion over his eight years. Again, these are just these are horrible numbers. But then Donald Trump comes into power and it's around 19 trillion dollars and it jumps 10 trillion dollars, much closer to 30 trillion dollars. The damage he did in four years, just on fiscal issues alone, unspeakable. But, John, the biggest problem is there is just not the political will to be responsible

and plan ahead to make sure that this debt doesn't cripple America, because we're moving in a direction where it will cripple this country economically and by extension, the world's economy. Yeah, while you all, you and Steve were talking, I was thinking about two things. One was an early diary entry from George H.W. Bush when he's president elect in 1988 in December. And he talks about how he'd read, read at that book, The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers. Remember Paul Kennedy? Paul Kennedy, right. And how debt was an essential part of that and how existential that was and for which he in some ways sacrificed his presidency when he abandoned his no new taxes pledge, which helped set the conditions for the surplus you're talking about.

The other is these numbers. It reminds me of a saying attributed to Stalin. You know, one million is real. Trillions are a statistic. It's just I think it's just a very difficult matter of political public education to to lay this out. And to say there's no political will is kind of an insult to political. There's just it's just not remote, remotely. So let's save democracy and then fix the fiscal problem. Well, Jim Paul, Barry, it reminds me of of what happened during the Clinton years. You had Bill Clinton famously getting angry early in his presidency. It was recorded by by Bob Woodward. And I think the book was called The Choice. But Woodward recorded this anyway, where where Alan Greenspan said to Bill Clinton, if you don't take care of the deficit, you know, the bonds traders are going to go crazy.

And, you know, they're going to be real economic problems. And Clinton was angry. He said, you mean my presidency is being held hostage by bonds traders and to which Greenspan said, yes, yes, it is. So Bill Clinton did something deeply unpopular that I was against. He cut taxes and most Americans were against and Democrats paid for it in 1994. That's one of the reasons I got elected. And then over the next six years, we Republicans made a lot of deeply unpopular cuts to spending programs. Bill Clinton eventually went along with most of those cuts. But there were Republicans who lost their congressional seats because tough political decisions they made.

But what happened in 94 when I said I wanted to balance the budget? People laughed and said, you can't do it without wrecking the economy because you had a Democratic president and Republican members of Congress that did things that were deeply unpopular with some segments of society. We balanced the budget four years in a row. Let me say that again, four years in a row. And we did it because, again, there were people who took who made tough political choices and America was better because of it. There hasn't been a leader like that over the last 20 years when it comes to stopping these exploding deficits and exploding federal debt. And we're going to rue the day that we don't have those leaders if we don't do something fast. Clinton, August 93, a deficit reduction package, not how he thought he would spend his first year in office. And then with Republicans as part after when you all took control in 95, another balanced budget action. I think part of and actually reached a balanced budget and a surplus by the end of his presidency. And I think part of the reason why it does.

There's not the political will to do something about it now is people don't worry about it the way they did in the 90s because it got solved in the Clinton administration. I think people think it's the kind of problem that can quickly go away if you happen to have a few good years and maybe a little bit of political will. But it's just not right now. It's just not there. No, not there at all. Historian John Meacham, thank you so much. Always great to see you.