Morning Joe - Morning Joe 6/21/24

Episode Date: June 21, 2024

For the first time in months, Biden takes the lead in national polling averages

Now. The first presidential debate is just one week away. Forget the debate. I say we put them both in a hammock and the first one to stand up is our next president. Biden has secluded himself at Camp David where he's preparing for this bout like Rocky Balboa, get ready for a golf club or

laying. And Trump is hard at work right now deciding whether to go with the scented Aquanet or unscented. Biden will be gathering with aides this week at Camp David, where his debate prep will likely be fueled by his favorite drink, orange Gatorade, which explains this new ad. Is it in you? Yes. Good. Good. I'm glad.

You've got to stay hydrated. You've got to stay hydrated. You've got to stay hydrated. I like orange Gatorade, too. Lemon lime, probably my favorite flavor. Oh, no, I have a blue one. Blue for me. I'll say this. In Wilmington, Delaware, there's a store near where his transition headquarters was. So I spent a lot of time there in the fall and winter of 2020.

And there was a store that sold souvenir scented candles, Joe Biden themed scented candles. The scent, orange Gatorade. His love for Gatorade is well known. And as you just heard from the late night comics, both campaigns are in debate prep mode with less than a week to go before their showdown in Atlanta. We're going to go through the strategies for both President Biden and his challenger, Donald Trump. And speaking of the former president, there is new reporting on alarming comments he made about the use of nuclear weapons. And could today be the day we finally get a ruling on Trump's immunity claim? The Supreme Court is expected to release more decisions later this morning.

And, Cady, as we had heard from some legal experts on this show yesterday, the delay, in many ways, is the decision. We might hear from them today on the immunity case. It might spill into next week. But because it has taken them so long, there's little to no chance that the January 6th federal trial can even happen before the election. So many feel, many Democrats feel for sure, that the court has already put their thumb on the scale. Yeah, I think we're inching into the no chance realm, aren't we? That seems to be the consensus of most lawyers. And it's not that Chief Justice Roberts is going to go to members of the Supreme Court on the bench and say,

look, can you hurry this up? That's not the way that I'm told the Supreme Court works. So if there are justices who want this to be delayed, then they can slow walk this one. So let's see if we get it today. Everybody is waiting. For the first time in months, however, President Joe Biden has overtaken Donald Trump in national polling averages. According to the poll aggregate site FiveThirtyEight, Biden took a point one percent lead in the race yesterday. That is the first time that Biden has led since at least March, which is as far back as the website's tracker goes. The change comes after a series of recent polls show Biden narrowly ahead of Trump, though all those results were within the margin of error.

Trump has continued to lead in a number of swing state polls, most also within the margin of error. Meanwhile, President Biden traveled to Camp David last night. He will spend the next few days there with a team of advisors preparing for the upcoming presidential debate. The plan is for Biden to remain at Camp David until at least Monday, but he may stay longer if he needs to. As the June the 27th debate draws closer, preparations will likely include full length mock debates. Campaign officials say the president is gearing up to hold Donald Trump accountable for the ultra wealthy and corporations. So we know that Joe Biden is preparing to have a fairly conventional debate prep session. From my understanding, from talking to the Trump campaign, I'm sure you're hearing the same thing.

John, that is not necessarily the case with Donald Trump. Well, the words conventional and Trump rarely end up in the same sentence together, Tradi. Certainly on the Biden side, we showed an image there of him flashing a thumbs up as he was boarding Marine One, the presidential helicopter. That was in response to a question from a reporter asking how the debate was going. That's all he had to say. And really, it was just a hand gesture. And they're being very tight lipped as to how this is going to go. But we do know that Ron Klain, his former chief of staff and a veteran of Democratic presidential debate prep, is part of the team there at Camp David. Bob Bauer, his former his lawyer and the man who played Donald

Trump in the 2020 debate prep, he will be there as well. And they're going to go through and prepare the president for what will be likely deeply personal attacks from Donald Trump, including against about Hunter Biden. They encourage him, of course, to retain the presidential field. But flashing a little temper, I'm told, not a bad thing. It's going to be humanizing. That'll be something that I think a lot of will connect a lot of voters, particularly voters whose own families have struggles with addiction. And while Donald Trump and his team have long downplayed that he does any formal debate prep at all, Trump, well, he's not exactly winging it. He's been holding informal policy

sessions where he discussed topics that will likely come up. Issues the Trump campaign has maintained are notable weaknesses for President Biden. We're told here at NBC that he discussed the economy and inflation with Senator J.D. Vance, immigration with former White House aide Stephen Miller and former acting ice head Tom Holman. He also held a session with former acting director of national intelligence Rick Grinnell on national security. The senior advisor says Trump has also spent time meeting with Marco Rubio and Eric Schmidt. Next week, Trump is planning a debate watch party in Atlanta, which is set to be attended by several allies and vice presidential hopefuls. What is

clear is that that debate next Thursday, a huge early moment in this race. And to talk about it, we're lucky to have former aide to the George W. Bush White House and State Department, Elise Jordan, Pulitzer Prize winning columnist and associate editor of The Washington Post and MSNBC political analyst, Eugene Robinson. And deputy managing editor for politics at Politico, Sam Stein. You just saw Sam host way too early and do so adeptly, I might add. Adeptly. That'll be the last compliment he gets from me today.

Sam adeptly. So, Eugene, let's talk about this debate. You know, both camps are being pretty tight-lipped as they're going to prepare, which makes sense. You don't want to tip your hand to the other side. But before we get into the nitty-gritty, let's just frame the stakes. Why next week matters so much? Well, look, this race is balanced on a knife edge. You just went through the polling, you know, by having inched ahead in

polls that have been within the margin of error for a long time, the state polls still showing Trump with a lead. This is, it's such a close race at anything, you know, any moment when the two are together and you can compare them side by side, potentially has a huge impact on which way this thing is going to go, because it's going to go, you know, obviously one way or the other. So it's a really, really big moment. I think the Biden camp really sees it as an opportunity to, for the first time, really get the American people to focus on the stark choice. And I think the Trump team, you know, feels he can kind of pour it on in the way that he tries to pour it on. It's going to be fascinating. And it's also a weird format, right?

Because no audience, there won't be any cheering, there will be the mics muted when they're not. So what I'm looking for is whether any sort of back and forth between the two of them is allowed. And that we'll see. Yeah, it certainly there's a sense that because the Biden team really pushed for it. No crowd because Trump plays off the crowd so well, he'll be deprived of that. There was a coin flip yesterday, and the Biden team won the coin flip, picked which podium to have, as opposed to the ability to go last. So actually, it'll be Trump who delivers the closing argument next Thursday, at least.

So Eugene's point, the Biden camp, we can tell how important they think this moment is for when they'd want it to have it. June, the earliest. We've had a general election debate in decades, because they do need to remind Americans this is the choice. I need to remind Americans, hey, this is who Donald Trump is and who he will be again. Well, the Biden campaign needs to set the narrative early that

Biden is competent and capable, capable to lead going forward. And he absolutely cannot have a senior moment at this debate. That's what I heard from, I was in Wisconsin and Michigan two weeks ago for a lot of focus groups. And what I heard from voters, Democrats who support Biden is just that they are going to be watching and they want to make sure that he's up to the task. They might still be planning to vote for him, but if they, but they still, they're uncomfortable about the age, and it really is an albatross that is hanging around this candidate and campaign. So as John was just saying after that toying flip, we now know who will have the last word

in the debate. And according to CNN's Biden's campaign, won that flip, they opted for the right podium, right-hand podium on stage, which means that he'll be on the right side of your screen as you're looking at it next week. The podium positions will be identical to the candidates placements during both of the 2020 debates. Trump's team then chose to get the last word in, marking the first of their debate matchups in which Trump will deliver the final statement. He did interrupt Biden's closing remarks back in September of 2020 debates. You may remember that. Sam, this is all the kind of, you know, jujitsu around debates. I don't know that it makes a ton of difference who stands where or, you know, who has the very last word. One thing

that I'm hearing from the Trump campaign is that they think they need to warn him to watch his facial expressions, because whilst his microphone will be muted, they'll be on different podiums. But when we look at that screen, they're still going to be on a split screen, right? So we'll still see Donald Trump's reaction as to what Joe Biden is saying. I don't know how weird that's going to be for the audience if Donald Trump or Joe Biden is trying to interrupt and it's on mute. But I guess that the person on the stage will be able to hear. I mean, is there a chance that even though he's muted, Donald Trump's either facial expressions or interruptions will still be heard?

I hear what you're saying, yeah. Will he be picked up almost on Joe Biden's mic? Probably, right? And if anything is... Or at least presumably Joe Biden will hear him. Yeah, and past this prologue, I assume that Trump will be unable to stop himself from interrupting, right? And so it could create this weird image or moment where you can hear him

sort of in the background and you're wondering what he's saying and Joe Biden's distracted by it. I think ultimately your first point is the valid one, which is this is a visual experience for people as much as it is an audible experience for people. And by that I mean with Biden, everyone knows, will he come out of this night looking sprightish,

looking like someone who can handle another four years in office, dispelling the concerns around his strength and stamina. And with Trump, it's somewhat related but not the same, which is will he come off looking more grounded and sane? Or will he be this kind of rabid caricature of an ex-president that we've come to be accustomed to? And so I think for that reason, this debate matters. It's a visual experience.

And that's been true sort of historically, right? Back to Kennedy-Nixon, it was just sort of looking at these two men and who was young, who was up and coming versus who had that five o'clock shadow. And so that's where Nixon won on the radio, but Kennedy won on television. Exactly. So yeah, to your point that it is a visual debate. Johnny, what are you going to be watching for? Yeah, I think there are a number of things we should remember that there have been other tests of Joe Biden's vitality and ability to do the office state of the union, most notably. And he tasked that with flying colors and put those questions to rest for a time. I do think some Democrats have said privately that if Biden has a very bad night, there'll be real worries about whether he can continue forward this campaign. But his team feels confident. They think he'll do well.

And we should note, usually in these debates, the incumbent president is at a disadvantage, right? That incumbent president, usually not challenged in the Oval Office, usually did not go through the primary process. So therefore, didn't have to debate the opponents in his own party. And that's true. Biden hasn't done a debate in a long time. But neither has Trump, because he sat out all the Republican debates this time around. There's a chance that he will be equally as rusty. And the Biden team is betting that when Americans hear him again, they'll be reminded of the chaos of his four years, but also recognize he's even gotten worse.

And we continue to learn more about his time in office, because now the former governor of Puerto Rico reportedly says that Trump talked to him about preparing for nuclear war while he was president. According to The Hill, which has obtained an excerpt from an upcoming memoir by Ricardo Rossello, the conversation happened when Trump visited Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria in 2017. While overseeing the storm's damage from a helicopter, Trump allegedly told the ex-governor, quote, nature has a way of coming back. Well, it does until it doesn't. Who knows with nuclear warfare what will happen?

Trump then allegedly added, quote, but I will tell you what, if nuclear war happens, we won't be second in line, pressing the button. In a statement to The Hill, a Trump campaign spokesperson did not deny that the former president made those remarks, but instead said that he abhors the idea of this kind of war. Gene Robinson, it seems like if the governor is to believe that Trump brought this up out of nowhere, we know that while he's in office, there's been

other reporting that he has a real preoccupation with these types of weapons. This seems like another moment to remind Americans to just, you know, what those four years were like. Well, what the four years were like and remind Americans that that comes with the job, right? That comes with the presidency. You have the nuclear suitcase trailing you around and you can push the button. And I think so. So when we talk about this, I think people need to to realize that, you know, you are entrusting this vast power to one of these two men. And now you could argue that, well, both have successfully managed not to get us into nuclear wars during their presidential terms. Nonetheless, it does focus you on the stability and, frankly, the sanity of the two candidates. And, you know, there are crises going on, but there can be a real crisis. You look at Russia and North Korea, this closer relationship, what Russia potentially is going to do to help North Korea better its nuclear program. So the North Koreans could hit any U.S. city potentially, which they can't do now.

What does the U.S. president do then? And that's like a very real possibility. So who do you want? You know what the hell? Well, no, this is a continuation of Trump's fascination with nuclear power. He's long fancied himself to be some nuclear specialist because he had an uncle who was some kind of scientist at MIT, MIT, and he's talked about it since the eighties and he bragged, you know, he would be in, he scared countless journalists in the run-up to the election. He would do these off the records and he would talk about nuclear, you know, Mattis says nuclear is really bad. It's really, really bad. It says nothing after nuclear. B minus Trump impersonation.

I know, I know, I'm not that good. So he, you know, he seems to have a little bit of B minus Trump impersonation. which is what voters judge him on versus Biden and his age and not being in judging his acute, his mental acuity. And Trump's is a mental acuity of the other side of the coin that he's never possessed. And so anything that the Biden campaign can do to draw that out and to draw out the existential stakes of Trump having the button, that's a good thing for the Biden campaign. I was part of the presidential pool at Bedminster back in the summer of 2017 when Trump threatened fire and fury at Kim Jong-un in Korea. So this is a very real possibility. And to your point, one potentially. Watch that situation. That could get really, really bad really quick. Yeah, we'll have more on that later in the show. Next up here in Morning Joe, two federal judges in Florida have

reportedly suggested that Judge Aileen Cannon should recuse herself from the Trump classified documents case. We'll dig into that brand new reporting about the concerns raised by her more experienced colleagues. Plus, a group of Democrats are calling for the repeal of a law from the 1870s. Why they say the Comstock Act could be used in lawsuits seeking to ban the abortion drug nifepristone. You're watching Morning Joe. We're back in just 90 seconds. Look at that beautiful shot of the White House. It is 20 past six and already daylight.

Nice sunny day here in Washington. We are going to ignore the fact that it's going to get up to 100 degrees and just enjoy that shot. Not mentioning that. There is new audio of Donald Trump admitting that he lost the 2020 election and then quickly reverting back to the original lie. It comes from research for the new book Apprentice in Wonderland by Ramin Sittuda. He spoke to the former president six times and recorded the conversations. Trump's admission that he lost

came during a conversation about his relationship with Geraldo Rivera. What was Geraldo like? He was good. He did a good job. He was smart, cunning. He did a good job. And are you guys still close or are you no longer? No, I don't think so.

He is, after I lost the election, I won the election, but when they said we won, he called me up three or four times. After I lost the election, I won the election. In another conversation with, between Trump and and Satuda, the former president claims that Joan Rivers voted for him in 2016. Joan said she was a Republican. Did you know that? I thought she might have been a Republican. I know one thing. She voted for me according to what she said. One small hitch with all of that. Joan Rivers actually died two years

before that election. Sam, so we hit this former president saying in his own words, the Joan Rivers stuff aside, I lost the election. But he does very quickly then say, actually, he gets back on track. He gets back on message. Pavlovian there. Yeah. I don't read too much into it. Me neither. I think he has. I think he knows he lost the election probably, but he's convinced himself otherwise. He's never going to say it. He's never going to say it. It might be a slip up here and there. And the idea that he would ever admit it to me seems almost impossible because it's so core to his political appeal,

this idea that something was taken from him and relatedly from his supporters. I mean, that is essentially why the basis of the campaign, he talks about it all the time, it's retribution, right? And what are you having retribution for? For this grave injustice that was done to you, which is the election being denied. That was rightly yours. Of course, everyone knows it's a lie.

There's been countless lawsuits to litigate this, extensive corruption overturned, but that's just the world that he lives in that we're forced to live in. Yeah. And as you say, Sam, there have been plenty of people that testified during the January the 6th committee hearings that said that he knew it was a lie as well. John, I agree with Sam. I don't think this is going to have a huge impact on the campaign. Sounds like a slip of a tongue that he very quickly wanted to put right in his own mind. Yeah, in his own mind. Yeah. The bigger question is who's Joe Niver is going to cast her ballot for this time. Yeah, no, I think that is definitely important because we know that dead people vote. So obviously that is part of Donald Trump's lies.

No doubt about it. Moving to the present day during a radio interview yesterday with a Milwaukee-based vice president, Kamala Harris, suggested that Donald Trump's comment about Milwaukee as being horrible in a meeting he held with House Republicans last week represents a larger pattern of the former president attacking predominantly black cities. Your opponent thinks Milwaukee is less than wonderful. In fact, he called it horrible. I know you've been here many times. Madam Vice President, have your experiences in Milwaukee led you to believe that this is a horrible city? Let me tell you, I love Milwaukee and I keep coming back to Milwaukee. You look at what Donald Trump did to apparently criticize Milwaukee. You know, he did that with my home city of Oakland.

He did that as it relates to Baltimore, as it relates to Atlanta and Philadelphia. And I'll let your listeners connect the dots in terms of what all those cities have in common. But there seems to be a pattern at play. Trump later denied that he called Milwaukee horrible, claiming he was only referring to the city's crime rate and what he claims are voting issues. Gene is also reporting that he originally planned to stay in Chicago during the national. Yes. No doubt at the Trump hotel, which would allow him to build Secret Service staying with him. So we can find a thing. Yeah. So we could make some money off of it while he's there. But there's no doubt that he is that the cities he criticizes often many, many times have black mayors, certainly have large black populations.

And he uses them to to create this image of chaos and fear and crime, usually not backed up by the numbers. But it's part of his pitch. It's part of his pitch. This is not new. You know, you go all the way back to the Central Park Five and just draw the line right to the present day. I mean, and look, let's be honest. I mean, that is part of his appeal to his base. Not, you know, not explicitly we hate black cities, but atmospherically, you know, tribally, he he makes that pitch. And it's, you know, so it's it's not coded language anymore. It's just kind of, you know, bullhorn. Well, it's just a joke. Trump's idea that he's going to woo black voters from Biden in significant numbers enough to change the narrative. I mean, basically what he's doing is he's trying to make white voters who

think that Trump is racist and have good cause to think so feel that perhaps, oh, well, Trump's doing outreach. So maybe that's how he stands to potentially win, much like Ron Johnson ran those ads in Wisconsin about all that he had done for the black community. And that wasn't to win black voters. It was to reassure white voters. And so Trump, that was one of the funniest moments at a focus group in Detroit with some black voters and asking them about Trump's comments and to respond. I mean, it was just laughable, laughter, laughter, full on laughter. You're right about trying to create a permission structure for people to vote. Still a bold choice to alienate the residents of the largest city and perhaps the biggest swing city.

Where you're going to have your convention. Yes, it's really like an unorthodox playbook. It's also such a cool city, too. I love Milwaukee. I think it's a great city. If I had to choose like a Midwest place, it's a good city. Good baseball field. You got good beer. You got a lot going on the waterfront. Yeah. Beautiful. There's been a lot of Milwaukee love on the show in the last week and rightly so. And we've got an important programming note to tell you about. This Monday is the second

anniversary of the Supreme Court's decision to reverse Roe v. Wade. And to mark that day, Mika will be sitting down with the aforementioned Vice President Kamala Harris for an exclusive interview. Again, that's this Monday only on Morning Joe, the Vice President and Mika. Still ahead this morning, another high-profile Democrat is planning to boycott the Israeli prime minister's address to a joint session of Congress next month. We'll tell you who it is as the White House and Benjamin Netanyahu continue to spar over his accusations that the U.S. withheld arms from Israel. Plus, Wikipedia labels the Anti-Defamation League as an unreliable source for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and for anti-Semitism. The head of that organization will join us with his reaction.

That's next on Morning Joe. Welcome back. One of the world's most popular information websites has declared-Jewish hate is not a reliable source for information about the Israel-Palestine conflict and anti-Semitism. The editors cited the ADL's roles as both an advocacy and research organization, claiming that prevents the group from providing unbiased accounts on these topics. The move, of course, comes amid a surge in anti-Semitic incidents on college campuses across the country since the October 7th Hamas terrorist attack on Israel, with more than 1,800 incidents reported in just the past eight months. That's up 700 percent compared to last year. Joining us now, the CEO of the Anti-Defamation League, Jonathan Greenblatt.

Jonathan, thanks for being here this morning. Let's just start very simply. What is your reaction to what Wikipedia did? Well, look, Wikipedia, Jonathan, is an organization that we deeply respect. It's a website that I think we all use. We count on it a great deal. But I'd also have to acknowledge that its processes are a bit of a black box. The standards are a bit opaque, and we just don't have total access or transparency into how it works. But this happening today, at a moment when Jewish people around the world are facing incredible vulnerability, suggesting that the leading Jewish organization tracking that vulnerability somehow isn't valid, that

our processes aren't rigorous, that our data isn't accurate. It's flat out wrong. And I think what we're beginning to understand is there's a handful of editors at Wikipedia who are basing this decision, if you will, or asserting this claim because of the fact that we do, as a Jewish organization, support the Jewish state, because we do use the standard definition of anti-Semitism used by governments and organizations around the world. And these are the positions we take. And frankly, it's not a basis to kick us off of Wikipedia or any other place. That would be doing an incredible disservice

to the public at large. And their claim that because it's, you guys are both, in their words, advocacy and a resource organization, so therefore the advocacy taints the research. What do you make of that? Look, our processes are absolutely rigorous. Our methodologies are sound. They stand up to scrutiny. Everything is transparent and done very above the board. We have a team of PhDs who does this work. I mean, I find it really incredulous that, you know, I think we should listen to black people when they tell us about what racism is. I think we should listen to LGBTQ groups when they tell us what homophobia or transphobia is. I think we need to listen to Jewish groups when they explain what anti-Semitism is. Yeah, well, I actually think that's right. I

mean, you know, to me, the ADL is not the same thing as the Washington Post or the New York Times in terms of trying, you know, to be, you know, they are not, we are not advocacy groups. Sure. We are journalists. You don't pretend to be a journalistic group. Correct. But as far as I know and have ever known, there's never been anything wrong with the ADL's research. I mean. The numbers hold up. The accounts of various incidents hold up. And so it is possible to disagree with advocacy or policy positions that the ADL might take

and still respect the research. I wouldn't say that makes you unreliable. I mean, look, again, I think it's a handful of people basing this on a series of issues or positions we've taken that, again, are not grounded in evidence. They're not based in fact. And we're going to do everything that we can to explain to the leadership of Wikipedia why we think they're getting this wrong. Isn't this kind of the same as Reddit, though, and the different moderators that just, you know, these are these online forums and this is how they police and based on their own rules. And so it's really these

outside forums. We can't have much to do with what Elon Musk decides can go on Twitter. So a little bit, it's just kind of the conundrum also of free speech colliding with bad speech, hateful speech. Yeah. I mean, it's a good point. You know, I really admire the fact that Wikipedians are volunteers and they work on these things. And there's millions of articles out there that, again, we all benefit from. And at the same time, when a small group of people could take a political position and they're not accountable. I mean, look at ADL. We have publicly available financial filings. We have quarterly board meetings. We have a very open process.

We use best practice governance. I mean, I don't look, I think we're a bit of an open book. We're trying to open the book on Wikipedia to better understand why they're making this decision. So let's go ahead. No, I was, I'm just trying to clarify exactly what happened because in Wikipedia, it's not uncommon that if, if, if like a celebrity is in the news for something bad or something like that, people jump in and they re-edit the Wikipedia bio and then that gets re-corrected and it goes back and forth. Is that what's going on or is this a central decision by the people who run the site? So as I understand it, again, and to your point, there are editors who we don't know their names and it's hard to ascertain their scholarship or their expertise. Nonetheless, a few editors have sort

of made a proposition. And again, they're basing it on information, which we would highly contest, but there isn't necessarily a kind of due process where we can get necessarily a hearing. So we're doing the best that we can to try to understand how this decision was made. And look, this again, this comes at a time. I can't put a fine enough point on it. Jonathan, we've talked about this again and again. Antisemitism is up. Acts of harassment, vandalism and violent violence are up. And if you don't have the leading organization in the world tracking antisemitism and our data on Wikipedia, anti-Semitism will continue to increase. I mean, we work with policymakers. We work with journalists. We work with elected officials. Law enforcement just shed a light on this. So if we can't shed a light on this,

I worry that the oldest hatred will continue to fest. Yeah, let's move beyond Wikipedia and talk about where things are right now. The war in Gaza shows no signs of abating. Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Biden, their teams continue to be at loggerheads about what comes next. Now, college campuses have emptied out. Students have gone home for the summer. Are we seeing, therefore, a decrease in some of these anti-Semitism incidents?

Where are we right now? Well, it's a good question. So certainly the students have left campuses for the most part. And yet we've continued to see what some activists are describing as, quote, the summer intifada. Obviously, it makes Jewish people nervous because the intifada was a campaign of violence in Israel. We saw the vandalism just last week at the home of the director of the Brooklyn Museum. We've seen, you know, ugly protests in front of the Nova exhibit

here in New York and all over the country. So I will say that while campuses are have calmed down a little bit because the students are gone, there's still a lot of anxiety out there, a lot of intensity. And I'm a little bit worried, Jonathan, as we head towards Chicago and towards the summer, that things could really blow up in the streets. That's certainly something. Can we just say the obvious once again and keep repeating it? You can go ahead and criticize the actions of the government of Israel. You can criticize Benjamin Netanyahu. You don't have to go all anti-Semitic to do it. You don't have to hate Jews to think that Benjamin

Netanyahu is a bad guy. Also, I don't know how much media attention it's gotten in the U.S., but there was a horrific rape of a young girl, a Jewish girl in France, just over the past week. That's right. And it was, that is just anti-Semitism in

its worst and most glaring sexual violence. A 12-year-old girl in its worst and most glaring sexual violence. A 12-year-old girl in Paris was gang raped by a group of youth. The French police are calling it a, quote, overt anti-Semitic act. We've seen these things explode all over the world. And yeah, you can have strong feelings about what's happened in the Middle East. You can have compassion and empathy for Palestinian civilians. And we should.

A heart should break for every single civilian killed. But that isn't an excuse to target and commit acts of violence against Jews in France, in America or anywhere. And it's confusing to me why everyone doesn't understand that, but we'll just keep shining a light on it. That's all we can do. All right. The CEO of the Anti-Defamation League, Jonathan Greenblatt, Thank you for being here. Thank you. Coming up next, we'll show you the special way that Major League Baseball honored the Negro Leagues at Wickwood Field last night. And also ahead. We're a morning news show, obviously, so as you might imagine, Anchorman resonates. Do you think that your action team could take the Morning Joe cast? I'm not afraid of the team of Morning Joe. Why not, Will?

Comedian Will Ferrell says he's not afraid of us here at the Morning Joe crew. You know what? I think we can take him. We'll play more of my interview with him, Steve Carell, and Kristen Wiig for their new movie, Despicable Me 4. Stick around for that conversation and plenty of laughs. That's straight ahead. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. The despicable me for stick around for that conversation and plenty of laughs. That's straight ahead. Morning, Joe. We'll be right back. And so we welcome it back here to 1954 television. So I get what we're doing here. This is how the game was shot. Yes.

Okay. And this is how it sounded. Do you think they had the split screen in 54? They did. We're told they did. Okay. With a dissolve in the middle. This is all authentic. That was part of one inning broadcasted in black and white during last night's game

between the San Francisco Giants and St. Louis Cardinals at Rickwood Field, which is America's oldest ballpark. Major League Baseball honoring the legacy of the Negro Leagues in Birmingham, Alabama, just days after the death of the legendary Willie Mays at the age of 93. Mays, who was born in nearby Westfield, played his first professional home games there in 1948 as a member of the Birmingham Black Barons. The Giants and Cardinals took the field alongside former Negro League players in a game umpired by the league's first ever all-black crew, with 99-year-old former Black Baron and St. Louis Cardinal Bill Greeson,

the oldest living Negro leaguer, throwing out the ceremonial first pitch. As for the game itself, a good one. The Cardinals have beat the Giants 7-6. So, Eugene, we were watching some of this last night. It was really well done. It was a really important tribute to the Negro Leagues writ large, but in particular, Willie Mays, considered by many the greatest player of all time. And just it felt like an important moment for Major League Baseball, just a few weeks after recognizing that Negro League statistics will count.

Exactly. It's a big deal. It is a big deal. It feels like an important moment to honor what was. I think it is. Willie Mays was certainly you know, certainly one of the greatest top five, maybe top one, who knows, ballplayers in history. He was amazing. And now that Negro League records are included, we will know more about greats like Josh Gibson and Central Page and, I mean, these amazing, amazing ballplayers who, those few who got the chance eventually to go to Major League Baseball showed just how good the Negro League was. This was really special last night.

Gene, while you're here, let's talk a little basketball. The Los Angeles Lakers have settled on their next head coach. The team will reportedly hire J.J. Redick, an ESPN analyst and podcaster who played 15 years in the league on a four-year contract to lead the franchise. So let's get your thoughts on J.J. Redick. No coaching experience whatsoever. Now gets to coach LeBron James, with whom he co-hosts that podcast. And Gene, while you're here, this could be your moment to congratulate me on the Celtics, too. Oh, yes. Jonathan, congratulations on the Celtics. That's why you're here. They're amazing. They are a great team. And this could be the first of several championships, actually.

This has dynastic potential. J.J. Redick. So he's a good analyst. He's a good podcaster. He's a good friend of LeBron James, apparently. But we have no idea if he's a good coach. He's going to be an NBA coach of the Lakers. And he's never coached in college. He's never coached in high school, as far as I know. And he certainly never coached in the NBA. So, you know, I was reading the column by Bill Pulaski, the great L.A. Times sports columnist, and he was like, what the actual blank are they trying to do? This is crazy. Yeah, and certainly the track record of first-time head coaches

jumping into the NBA mixed at best. A team that, you know, it's got one of the greatest players in history, LeBron James. It's got Anthony Davis. And that's it. I mean, so how far are they going to go? Are they, they don't have any money to add pieces. It's just crazy. And a huge spotlight for a rookie coach.

So now let's turn to a big night at the Olympic trials for U.S. swimmer Lily King. The five-time Olympic medalist qualified for her second event of the Paris Games, which was then followed up by a poolside proposal from her boyfriend, James Wells. King is poised to compete at her third Olympics next month and will be the first American swimmer to compete in the 100-meter and 200-meter breaststroke in three consecutive Olympic Games. And, Caddy, we're just about a month out or so from Paris, and I've got to say it's going to be a highlight of the summer. Yeah, I just got back from France.

It is the only story that everyone is talking about. Of course, though, they're a bit focused on the election that has now thrown Paris into a bit of a tizzy as well. By the way, that proposal, very high-stakes move. I always worry about those scenes. I mean, what happens if she says no? What happens if she wants to say no, but knows the cameras are rolling

so she can't? Complicated. What if you drop the ring in the pool? Yeah, I know. See, look at us. Pessimists early in the morning. All the things that could go wrong. Anyway, very happy for them both.

Lily, well done for you. OK, Gene, before you go, your latest op-ed in the Washington Post, I love this, is titled Extreme Heat Should Inspire Urgency, Not Doom. You and there is now a kind of school of thought that what we need is climate optimists to motivate us, as well as needing, of course, the climate pessimists who are driving us to take action. What do you see as the task before us as we are boiling in Washington? We are boiling indeed, and we are boiling in much of the country.

This week, there's this huge heat dome. There are extreme weather things happening around the world on this increasing basis. And so a lot of people, you know, some people are just taking this sort of doomism attitude that it's over. Why are we trying to reduce our emissions of fossil fuels? We've already lost the battle. But we have not lost the battle. In fact, the overall average temperatures are rising at exactly the rate that scientists predicted years and decades ago. And there is still time. There is still time to mitigate that. There's still time to avoid the worst case scenarios.

What has happened is that we are seeing these extreme weather events faster than was anticipated. We didn't think this sort of thing would be happening for 10 or 20 or 30 years, these extreme events. And that's because of other anticipated factors, like the fact that the Arctic is warming faster than the rest of the planet, and that differential in temperature between the air masses is lower, and so the jet stream is all screwed up. That's what's going on. But there's still time and we have to have some optimism and we have to see this as an opportunity to keep moving forward. We can't just be defeatist about this because that will defeat us. There is a good book about this. Hannah Rich has written a book called Not the End of the World. It's full of kind of solutions of things we can do, but also things

we can lobby. She's not a climate denialist by any means. I think we've moved beyond that. But there's also good news. There is good news and we need people to feel motivated enough to carry on doing the things and voting for the people who are actually going to do the things that are going to try and turn this around. Gene, thank you for writing that. Coming up, some Democrats are considering a new option for protecting access to a common drug used in abortions. We'll explain what it is and why there's some pushback within the party. That's straight ahead here on Morning Joe. ¶¶ Ahead of the debate, both candidates are busy prepping,

and believe it or not, they've actually agreed to talk to us now about the big showdown. Let's ask them some questions. I'll start with President Biden. Mr. Biden, when did you start preparing for next week's debate? That was back in 1871, I think. Oh, that makes sense.

Got it. Mr. Trump, over to you. Have you been prepping for the debate? Not even a little bit. Okay, over to you. Have you been prepping for the debate? Not even a little bit. Okay, all right. Now, the debate stage won't have any chairs, so you'll both be standing for over 90 minutes. Mr. Trump, how long before you'll need a break?

In three minutes. Mr. Biden, how about you? In three seconds. All right, well, maybe we should. Right now, Mr. Biden, just to confirm, you're sticking with the same vice president? What's her name again? Karen.

Kamala. Kamala. Kamala Harris. And Mr. Trump, are you planning to announce your running mate before the debate, or will they remain anonymous? Anonymous. Really, anonymous Anonymous, really anonymous. OK, I understand.

Mr. Biden, what will be your closing statement to the American people? I'll do what he's unable to do. I'll lead an effective strategy to mobilize children and I suffered the pressure. Sure, sure, sure. And finally, Mr. Trump, how would you sum up the biggest issue facing the world in six words? Saudi Arabia and Russia will repeat. Once you guys both rest up, Thank you so much for your time. A sneak peek, perhaps, of what we will see this coming week.

The debate, huge laughs aside, hugely important debate for this campaign this coming Thursday. So welcome back, everyone, to Morning Joe on this Friday, June 21st. Katty, we made it to Friday. Thank God. I'm Jonathan Lemire. I'm alongside Katty Kaye. Elise Jordan, still 21st. Katty, we made it to Friday. Thank God. I'm Jonathan Lemire. I'm alongside Katty Kay. Elise Jordan, still with us. And joining the conversation we have, NBC News and MSNBC political analyst, former U.S.

Senator Claire McCaskill. She and Jen Palmieri are co-hosts of the MSNBC podcast, How to Win 2024. Host of the podcast, On Brand with Donnie Deutsch. Donnie Deutsch is here. And a man who clearly needs a podcast, senior political columnist for Politico, Jonathan Martin. Great to see you all. We just noted, actually, JJ Redick, podcaster,

now coach of the Lakers. Donnie, perhaps that's in your future as well. Just goes to show. Just goes to show. Power of the podcast. Speaking of podcasts, I've never promoted my podcast. Coming up next week on the On Brand Podcast, Katty Kay and Anthony Scaramucci.

There you go. Talk about, talk about hey, listeners. We had a very good conversation with Donnie. This was a good, a fun hour we spent with you, Donnie. Thank you for having us on. We're delighted. The podcast is going great. And finally, I can say I, too, have a podcast.

Otherwise, I start to feel a little left out. J-Mark, next up is you. Exactly. I'm the last living American with no podcast. And clearly, Donnie, you need to be a guest on Caddy and the Moochies podcast. A little home and home. Have your people speak to my people, okay? Okay.

That'll be a lengthy process. My people is me, but I know that you have lots of people. My people is me also. Donnie has lots of people. Donnie, while you're here, let's talk about that debate. We've heard some laughs coming in there. Very funny from Jimmy Fallon. It is the earliest debate, general election debate in recent memory. And frankly, the stakes couldn't be much higher. Both men have real questions to answer. We know the Biden campaign hopes to use this moment to

remind America just who Donald Trump is, what he did while in office, and to make the case that the next four years, if he were to win, would be far worse. The stakes are high for both. I actually think there's a higher upside and downside for Biden, to be honest. I think there's so much riding on it for him. I mean, the concern for Biden, obviously, you see it in the jokes, is obviously, is he up to it? Does he have the energy? Does he have the stamina? I think if he comes up very short, it's going to be devastating. I think, oddly enough, Trump, his crazy is more built in.

If he hasn't, the one thing is if he's meandering, if he's crazy, if he says ridiculous things, for some reason, it doesn't have as devastating effect as what seems to be Biden's Achilles heel. So there's a lot at stake for both of them. Biden needs, I think if Biden does great, it's going to be amazing. I think if he does poorly, it's going to be really, really hurtful to him. But there's more of an up and down side for some reason for Biden. So, Claire, let's remember, of course, that in 2020, Biden bested Trump both times in their debates. The first one, famously so,

when Trump was angry and sweaty and kept interrupting him, and it turned out was likely positive for COVID. The diagnosis came a couple of days later. So what are some of your expectations for this debate? How big do you think the stakes are? I think it's pretty big. I mean, if you are into presidential politics, this is the Super Bowl on steroids. It is a big deal. Now, I do think that Biden has a secret advantage. It's not secret, though. That is that Donald Trump has been saying for months he can't even walk or talk. There have never been expectations set as lowly as the expectations are lower than the expectations that have been set for Biden. You know, and in fact, even Trump realizes he's got a problem because I think he said the other day on a podcast that Biden is a worthy debater, which, of course, is like, what?

I thought this is the guy who can't, you know, can't function, who has to have, you know. And so I do think that if Biden comes out and is aggressive, what he says is not as important as how he says it. And he's got to be a street fighter, but he's comfortable doing that. He is comfortable. He's, you know, scrappy Joe from Scranton can come out and throw haymakers because deep down, or maybe not so deep down, he doesn't respect Trump. And he will have no problem, I think, going after him, hammering tongs. And that's what he's got to do.

Jonathan, the whole thing about this debate, it seems to me, is that both of the candidates want the other candidate to be entirely themselves. Right. And like the most kind of extreme version of themselves. And that's the aim for them both. Right. The Biden camp was liked the idea of Trump's mic being muted. They pushed for that format. Do you think there's a world in which that's not necessarily the most advantageous format for them? Because actually, Trump lost that early 2020. It wasn't even a debate. Oh, my God, I still have PTSD from that debate. But he lost that performance. Too soon.

Because he jumped in too much. He was too aggressive. He interrupted too much. No, it's a really good insight, which is, you know, where do you find that line between exposing Trump's true self, but also not having such a free-for-all that the whole thing becomes kind of forgettable because it's such a S-show? I won't say the full word. That was the word I wanted. Yeah, exactly. And it's a really good insight. Do you lose the possibility of exposing Trump because you lose the mic and so you lose some of his most crazy comments or asides? That's a real possibility. But it goes to the heart, Katty, of this entire campaign. I can't recall covering a presidential

campaign or even reading about one where each campaign wanted the race to be about the other person. So much. I mean, most candidates and their strategists covet attention and want the race to be about them and want to control the message. I mean, the end goal for both of these candidates, and they would never admit this out loud, but they want to make it about the other guy because their best path to victory is making it about the other guy. Jonathan, to Claire's point, I think that it's a smart point. I've heard it as well from both sides. If Biden doesn't have a good night, how much anxiety is there going to be in Democratic circles? I don't think that the Richter scale is capable of measuring that. I think it would go off the charts in part, Katie, because there just is so much time. Right. I mean, we're going into July

here. And so there's waves of anxiety would be felt all summer, like waves crashing in every day on the beach. And it would be hard to sort of dissipate. And it would also raise the question of, would Trump do a second debate too, right? If it was that bad for Biden, would there even be a second debate? Obviously, they'd want one to clean it up. But would Trump give them one? That'd be the question. You would want those images for a debate.

The speculation about Biden being replaced, which still exists, by the way, and a lot of swamps on the right. It's just really hard to see absent health issue because Biden doesn't want to walk away. And there's nobody in the party that's going to make him. Yeah, that's clear. That talk of Biden leaving is nonsense. Sort of, as you say, John J. Martin, some sort of health issue. At least there's obviously so much focus on Biden needing a strong performance. But Donald Trump also, as we have been talking about here for months and months,

is not the same guy he was in 2020. He's also aged. He's just a few years younger than President Biden. He's shown real signs of slippage at times, harder to stay coherent in his thoughts. Isn't that possibly outcome next week, too? It's actually Trump is the one who comes out of there having a terrible night? Yes, but also it's so built in that Trump is going to say crazy, insane things and is capable of doing completely insane things. You know, you look at some of his antics back in 2016 and bringing Bill Clinton accusers to the debate against Hillary Clinton. You know, he has he's not going to shy away from anything that's incredibly dirty and nasty. And he probably is going to just relish in his attacks against Hunter Biden,

trying to get under Joe Biden's skin. So Americans are used to seeing him at just his most base, terrible, raw self. And Joe Biden is has unfortunately to hew to the higher standard of being seen as presidential. OK, debate prep fully underway, looking different on both sides, but it is underway.