Morning Joe - Morning Joe 7/11/24

Episode Date: July 11, 2024

Joe: Democrats must unite against Trump

While congressional Democrats are conflicted, we got a clear message today from our nation's most powerful Democratic leader, George Clooney. George wrote a New York Times op-ed titled, I love Joe Biden, but we need a new nominee. Adding, we also need a money guy, a safe cracker, an acrobat, and Brad Pitt. It's the plot of Oceans 24. Amal's busy with human rights stuff and I got bored. Yeah, you know you're in trouble when even Danny... George Clooney, a highly influential fundraiser for the Democrats, is now calling for a new nominee. It comes amid more dissent on Capitol Hill among Democrats. The first sitting U.S. senator and now nine House Democrats have publicly said President Biden should leave the race. Today will be a huge test for the fate of the president's campaign.

He will try to calm fears with a news conference in Washington after spending the day with world leaders at the NATO summit. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Thursday, July 11th. Along with Joe, Willie and me, we have the host of Way Too Early, White House Bureau Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire. And also with us, MSNBC contributor Mike Barnicle and U.S. special correspondent for BBC News, Katty Kay. Also with us, congressional investigations reporter for The Washington Post, Jackie Alimany is with us this morning. So a lot going on. I mean, new cries for the president to step aside and the debate. You can hear it across the country. You can hear it across the country. You definitely can hear it, Mika, across the party. You know, in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus said to religious leaders, every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided

against itself will not stand. Lincoln, with the specter of a civil war rising over slavery, quoted Jesus, a house divided against itself cannot stand. Lincoln said, I do not expect the union to be dissolved. I do not expect the house to fall, but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other. Lincoln encouraged his party in 1858 to stand together once again. Quote, two years ago, we did this under the siege of impulse of resistance to a common danger with every external circumstance against us. Lincoln's words then are all too relevant to the Democratic Party this morning. This morning, we report to you that there is a deep rupture running throughout the Democratic Party, a split tearing at the party's very foundation, a divide that's only going to

serve to elect a man who has repeatedly promised to be a dictator on day one. President Biden is on one side of that Democratic divide. We all know Biden supporters saved American democracy in 2020 by defeating a malignant force promising to undermine the Constitution itself, make common cause with America's enemies and refuse to accept any Democratic election result that declared him defeated. President Biden endured the bloody aftermath of January 6th riots, the stealing of nuclear secrets and sensitive war plans by Trump, his calling for the execution of Joint Chiefs Chairman and the hanging of his own vice president, his writing that the Constitution should be terminated if that was required to overthrow election results. Against that grim backdrop, Mr. Biden passed more bipartisan legislation than any president this century. He created more jobs than any

president this century. He led America out of COVID more strongly than any country on this planet, has overseen the strongest dollar in half a century, and the strongest economic growth in the world. America's economy is the envy of the world, period. Under Biden, our military and alliances are stronger relative to the rest of the world than any time since World War II. This, my friends, is not a matter of debate unless you get your news from hucksters on TikTok or on a cable news channel that is allergic to the truth. Despite what Donald Trump says, America is great, America is strong, and America is respected across the world. Joe Biden's leading a NATO summit this week that with Biden's leadership is now the strongest alliance in the world's history. Now on the other side of this divide are many of the most powerful Democratic politicians, thought leaders and donors. And they are all saying privately,

and they may soon say this publicly, that Joe Biden cannot win this election. That is now almost a universal sentiment among the hundreds of Democrats who have spoken out over the last 36 hours, many of whom have called me and voiced these very real concerns. They say Democrats' poll numbers are collapsing, fundraising is drying up, and any chance of saving the Senate and House from Trump rule over the next four years is vanishing before their eyes. Two sides in this Democratic divide with two compelling arguments. But the window on saving American democracy is closing. Joe Biden is dug in. He's got the votes. He's got the delegates. It is his rightful nomination. But also dug in are those who revere the president, but cherish American democracy even more. For them, this

is a zero-sum game. That is why a handful of Democrats that President Biden greatly respects, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kaufman, Jim Clyburn, Chris Dodd, John Kerry, Ron Klain and his family, Jill, Val and Hunter Biden, need to come together this weekend and talk about the consequences of this campaign and this candidacy on this country's future. Democrats have to unite against the immediate threat before America's 240 year constitutional republic is no more. Lincoln finished that 1858 speech telling his fellow party members against strange, discordant, even hostile elements. We gathered from four winds and we fought the battle through under the constant hot fire of a disciplined, proud and pampered enemy. Did we brave all then?

Default or now? Now, when that same enemy is wavering, deserved and belligerent, this result is not doubtful, Lincoln said. We shall not fail if we stand firm. We shall not fail if we stand together. Because so said Lincoln then, and so says a watchful and very worried nation now. Yeah, it's such a great point. What we need more than anything at this moment and what we have noticed this week in covering this, especially among the Democrats, is what we don't have is unity on this. And Willie, it is it is taking a toll absolutely on the campaign, the poll numbers and on conversations about Biden's presidency. And of course, anybody who's running against Donald Trump wants the focus to be on Donald Trump. Yeah. And that is the concern of people of good faith on both sides of this

argument. Democrats who believe Joe Biden should get out of the race so that they can do exactly what Joe just described and beat Donald Trump and those who believe he needs to stay in the race because we need, Democrats say, to defeat Donald Trump. Good faith arguments on both sides, but there is a gamble. Push Joe Biden aside, put up a candidate. We don't know who yet who could lose to Donald Trump as well. On the other side, Joe Biden could stand and lose as well. It is, by definition, a gamble. So we'll see.

President Biden has said he is not going anywhere, despite what we heard yesterday. A major, major moment today, though, at 530 Eastern Time, when President Biden will hold his first official news conference since that poor debate performance last month. White House officials tell NBC News the president has been preparing throughout the week, expect to face intense scrutiny from the press. President Biden plans to highlight the contrast between his policy positions and those of Donald Trump. Officials are not specifying how many journalists the president may call on today or how long the news conference will last. This comes as the first Democratic senator

is publicly calling for President Biden to drop out of the race. Senator Pierre Welch of Vermont wrote an op-ed in The Washington Post urging the president to withdraw for the good of the country. He writes in part, I understand why President Biden wants to run. He saved us from Donald Trump once and wants to do it again. But he needs to reassess whether he is the best candidate to do so. In my view, he is not. For the good of the country, I'm calling on President Biden to withdraw from the race. Vermont loves Joe Biden, writes Senator Welch. President Biden, Vice President Harris received a larger vote percentage here than in any other state. But regular Vermonters are worried he can't win this time. They're terrified of another Trump presidency.

Senator Welch continues states that once were strongholds are now leaning Republican. These new shifts in Minnesota, New Hampshire, Nevada, Arizona and Georgia must be taken seriously, not denied or ignored. The senator concludes, writing, we have asked President Biden to do so much for so many for so long. It has required unmatched selflessness and courage. We need him to put us first, as he has done before. I urge him to do it now. That's the op-ed from Senator Peter Welch. So, Jonathan Lemire, let's talk about that news conference 530 today. We should point out it comes at the end of a long day for President Biden. He's got a bilateral meeting with President Zelensky of Ukraine, among other meetings around that 75th anniversary of

NATO. What should we expect at about 530 tonight? First, you're right to note the schedule. It also comes after a long day at NATO yesterday that included an evening event. So it's been a pretty grueling week for the president. He also heads to Michigan tomorrow for an important campaign rally. But all eyes will be on this news conference at 530 p.m. The president has not done many of these extensive solo news conferences since the early days of his term. And in fact, the first news conference he did, which was, I believe, in March of 2021, went more than an hour. And after it did so, First Lady Jill Biden reprimanded staff, saying it was too long. The president's performance had faded as it went along. Normally, we see him in smaller events, usually staying with a foreign leader. And each,

it's known as a two and two. Each leader takes two questions from a pair of reporters. But this one is going to be the president alone. We don't know how many questions yet, but we've been promised it will be substantial. Now, whether that means four questions, six, ten, we'll have to see. But it can't be overstated. This is a big moment, the biggest for this president since the debate. And let's separate his performance in office, which all Democrats continue to praise, versus his continued viability as a candidate. And so many Democrats in the last 24 hours have said, especially as the defections continue in the moment with Speaker Pelosi on our air on Morning Joe yesterday, that they need to see a strong, they want to be reassured. They want to see a strong performance. And he will be up there.

He'll be off the cuff. It'll be spontaneous. There will be no teleprompter. The first time he's had a moment like this since that debate that went so poorly for him. And it is a chance to reassure Democrats if he does well. Now, what is the standard of doing well? That remains to be seen. What sort of performance does he need to deliver? At the moment, the momentum suggests that no matter how well he does tonight, it won't silence all Democrats worries, Joe. But it could certainly help. It could certainly help.

And if he does poorly, then I suspect the avalanche will only grow for costs they have to get out of the race. Yeah. You know, Mike, so much of the panicking is connected to polls.

And so many of the polls, the internal polls that House and Senate members have been seeing, the private polls, not the media polls, the private polls have been horrific. The public polls, the media polls have not been quite as bad. Give you an example. As far as the horse race goes this morning at 6 a.m. As we came on this show, The Washington Post and Ipsos released a poll.

Now, it showed 67 percent of Americans think Joe Biden needs to get out of the race. He is too old to run for president. There's a majority of Democrats. Let me get the exact number. A majority of Democrats, 56 percent of Democrats believe that Joe Biden should get out of the race. So that is those are two things that those wanting Joe Biden out of the race will certainly point to. And what will Joe Biden point to today, Mike Barnicle? The fact that this Washington Post Ipsos poll shows.

A dead heat, 46 percent to 46 percent. Polls have been all over the place. A lot of the media polls have been bad. But this poll today will be one that Joe Biden will be holding up. I'm tied. Show me. I've heard there's one poll that shows Kamala. I tell you, I've seen a ton of polls and neither Kamala nor Gavin Newsom nor any of the other Democrats are doing as well against Joe Biden are doing against Donald Trump as Joe Biden is. I am not making the argument that he stays in the race or goes. I'm just saying here's an example why there's a great divide. Democrats who want him out will say

two out of three Americans, Mr. President, say you are too old to serve. You cannot win. And then Joe Biden will come back with the same poll saying, yeah, and I'm tied with Donald Trump, tied with Donald Trump, even after the worst performance of my life. Explain that, Mike. Well, yeah, I'll try. Joe and Mika, you both know Joe Biden very well. And you know, in Joe Biden's mind, there's a huge difference between someone trying to push him out and people seeking to give him the option of leaving on his own. That's why what you mentioned at the top of the hour, the possibility of a group of people who he respects, knows, admires, and even loves, Nancy Pelosi, Jim Clyburn, John Kerry, Chris Dodd, others like that

gathering with him and talking this out because it has to be talked out because right now he's being cannibalized by his own party, by different rumors and by different various senators and congresspeople saying, you know, it's time for him to leave. His problem is now one of reality and one of perception, both married together. The perception is among a lot of people since the debate is that he's just too old to serve another term. And the problem politically is he has a strong base of support, oddly enough, among senior citizens, always had had that support among senior citizens. Anybody 70, 75 years old or older is going to look at Joe Biden and think, knowing their own lives, saying, geez, it's possible he could die in office. That's a reality. And that's a reality

that everyone has to deal with. He had a tough debate. He's talked about it. And Jonathan is correct. This afternoon at 530, that press conference is going to be vital to his survival as a candidate for the presidency. But before that, it's got to come down to a group of people who know and admire him, who he knows knows and admire him, people he trusts sitting down in the White House and talking this through rather than have this political death by cannibalization every single day. You know, Willie, we learned many things from the debate. We learned that Joe Biden

obviously had had something go terribly wrong with him that night. And we still don't know what it was. As I said before, for those those carnival barkers that are screaming about a media cover up, you find the person that saw Joe Biden like that and and and and bring him on our show. We'll be glad to interview him because I never saw anything that looked like that. But it was horrifying that night. I say that to also say that in even the New York Times Siena poll, even after that horrific display, Joe Biden picked up independent voters. Even after a divided and desolate Democratic Party torn at the seams, while the Trump campaign is talking about a landslide now, they are planning for a landslide. We have a Washington Post Ipsos poll coming out this morning that says two-thirds of

Americans consider Joe Biden too old to be president, and yet he is tied with Donald Trump, which, of course, is an argument for both sides. Biden can say, I'm tied with Donald Trump. The other side can say, yes, you're tied with Donald Trump, despite the fact you couldn't complete a sentence throughout absolutely impossible to square with with their vision of what a president should be. That's exactly right. And that's what I mean when I say these are two sides of good faith within the Democratic Party who want one thing to make sure that Donald Trump does not return to the White House. And they have two different views about the best ways to prevent that from happening. Some believe it's to stay with Joe Biden. Others believe in the unknown. And they'd like to see a plan, I think, as part of the problem. OK, if Joe Biden steps aside, what's your plan?

And we haven't heard a definitive plan other than handing it off to Vice President Kamala Harris, which, of course, makes the most sense. Others say open it up at the convention, but still no signs, Jackie Alimany, that the president is stepping aside. He sent that letter could not have been more clear on Monday to congressional Democrats. I'm not going anywhere. He actually made many of the same points that Joe is saying this morning, which is the longer this goes on, the longer we fight this out in public, the more it helps Donald Trump. Let's get together. Let's fight this guy. Let's beat this guy. So what are you hearing on Capitol Hill right now? What we've heard is privately people are worried about Joe Biden. They're worried about his age. They may even think he needs to step aside, but they hesitate to say it publicly. Nancy Pelosi on this very show yesterday morning, of course, with some innuendo saying he needs to make a decision soon.

Talking about President Biden, to which the Biden campaign says he did make a decision. He sent that letter on Monday. He's staying in. So where is that Democratic caucus this morning? Yeah, well, that letter clearly wasn't clear enough for people like former Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who made big news, subtle news, but big news and a significant reframing of the conversation on on the show yesterday. yesterday and and her interview really sent shockwaves through the halls of Congress, especially, you know, amongst Democratic aides and staffers who were all are already on edge. You know, there was this feeling last week when when members were at home and were really frustrated and felt like there was going to be some momentum coming back into Washington, D.C., to maybe have some influence and try to convince Biden to potentially at least be open to the discussion of stepping aside. That conversation quieted early in the week. Then yesterday, Pelosi sort of reopened the door there. And it looks like

she's kind of paving the way for a potential exit ramp or at least providing cover for members, for these frontliners, these vulnerable Democrats who are seeing the polling that we're all talking about. And perhaps, you know, polling that we're not seeing internal polling that is showing some some really damning results for them. As one House aide put it to me yesterday, a senior House aide, we have no path to take back the House if Biden remains at the top of the ticket. And I think that's why you're now seeing the former speaker speak out the way that she did, again, to try to reframe this conversation. She's an institutionalist. She's someone who lives and dies by the House. At the end of the day, that is her priority. Democrats need four seats to recapture the majority. There is a lot of, you know, happy

talk publicly about getting behind Biden and ultimately having Hakeem Jeffries be the speaker of the House in a Democratic majority next year. But I think the writing's on the wall for an increasing amount of members that that's not going to happen if Biden stays at the top of the ticket. That one of the big problems, though, Willie, is exactly what you just referenced, the lack of a contingency plan. And I think that's why we're not seeing more members come forward right now. That is the sort of back half of this conversation that that is troubling a lot of members, the lack of logistical prowess, a fear about some measures around ballot concerns in states. If Biden were to come off the ticket and needed to be replaced,

could that actually logistically be done in a way? Or would there have to be litigation, legal fights like we've seen in Ohio? And then the consensus around that candidate. A lot of donors, these members are hearing from donors that they want an open process and they're not necessarily rallying behind Kamala Harris. Yeah, that lack of a contingency plan is an absolute key question for Democrats who are actually stepping out and saying that Joe Biden should step out of the race. Also, the inability to move the conversation to the real alternative

because Democrats so far have not put an alternative out there. So the alternative is Donald Trump. And after staying out of the public eye for days to let the Democratic infighting play out, Donald Trump returned to the campaign trail on Tuesday night, holding a campaign rally in Doral, Florida. The former president rejoiced at how much the political landscape had changed since his debate against Joe Biden. And yet, as The New York Times points out, at various points in his 90 minute performance, Mr. Trump sounded eye wateringly cruel. He gleefully asserted that Mr. Biden had undergone many botched facelifts and has really bad hair.

Hey, wait, first of all, wait, hold on. I've been there. Hold on. Hold on. Right now. But hold on. He's talking about facelifts and really bad hair. Wait, is this the whole John Heilman? Everything he says is projection or confession. The facelift thing. OK.

He went on about how revolting Mr. Biden looked. I want to make that clear. He said Mr. Biden. Yeah. In a bathing suit. He said he said Mr. Biden looked revolting in a bathing suit. And again, confession, projection like we. Thank God we haven't seen him in a bathing suit. He referred to photos of Biden sitting shirtless in a beach chair. You know, those chairs are meant for children and old people to lift. And he can't even lift them, Mr. Trump jeered. He repeatedly called Chris Christie, the former New Jersey governor, a fat pig.

Again, by a mirror. My goodness. And he suggested that Nancy Pelosi might actually be deteriorating faster than Mr. Biden. She's not doing too well, he said buoyantly, though everything was going his way. He struck familiar paranoid notes telling his listeners, who included several of his grandchildren, about a sinister plot to defraud the American public that was being woven by a shadowy establishment that hated them. And while calling for the death penalty for drug dealers, he did a histrionically sing-song impression

of a mother watching her child hopelessly dying in their arms, screaming, "'What can I do? What can I do? Help me, God. What can I do?' So, Cady, yeah, mocking a mother who is holding a dying child in their arms. And we hear this is the new and improved. I've been hearing it for the past week now. Oh, this is the new and improved Donald Trump. He's positive. But this is to your point. He's happy. He's not the old Donald Trump.

He's really been liberated. And there we have Donald Trump calling people fat pigs. Donald Trump mocking others. Donald Trump mocking a mother holding her dying child. I mean, is he mentally fit? It doesn't sound like the new and improved Donald that I swear to I swear it's all you hear from Trump people. Oh, you know, he's changed. She's not the Trump of three years ago. He's not even very much. And here he is. He's he's actually taking great joy in a mother's child dying in her arms.

Yeah. Or writing on Truth Social that Kamala Harris in a kind of clear dog whistle should come and caddy for him, you know, in a golf tournament against Joe Biden. So this is the Donald Trump that his campaign does not want particularly out there in public. It is not the Donald Trump who showed up to that debate. That was the more disciplined Donald Trump. But as we have always said, that doesn't last very long with the former president. And there he is out there again. And the frustration for the Democrats is that when they see Donald Trump performing like he did in that rally in Florida, it seems to them clear that they should be ahead in the polls, that they should be able to beat Donald Trump easily. And yet the APSOS poll shows they're tied and you can play that one either way. Like you, Joe, I've been hearing from Democrats on the Hill, from Democrats in the White House, from Democrats who are close to Joe Biden. And there is no joy in this. There is nobody there who is celebrating the situation that they find themselves in. As one member of Congress said to me, all of us who really love Joe Biden and support him wish that we could say to him it's OK to step aside and shore up your legacy and protect your legacy. And the two things that have been mentioned on the program this morning are the internal polls that one member of Congress said to me show cataclysmic results for Democrats in the House in 2024, in November, such that they wouldn't even be able to perform well in 2026 because they would lose so many seats this November. And the other thing is the money.

George Clooney's article, and we know that George Clooney is close to Barack Obama, his op-ed did nothing to reassure Democrats that the financing would be there. So the pressure, as we've been hearing, has been building over the last 24 hours in a different way. Yeah, still ahead. I'm going to check out that caddy thing. I heard that as well on Truth Social. Willie, yeah, we have we've tried to had several people send that that golf challenge and Kamala Harris and Augusta. We haven't seen any confirmation of that yet. So we'll we'll see if, in fact, that was just another phony thing, which is easy to do because you write so many crazy, bizarre things. But we'll check and we'll confirm that as well. But again, you look, I just want to underline what we've said all along. There's this great divide right now. We have a poll out this morning that says that the race is tied.

Forty six. Forty six. And two thirds of Americans say Joe Biden is too old to run for president. So here we have this Democratic debate that will continue, that has to be resolved. Yeah, I'm struck just as we've been talking since this poll crossed and going through all these crosstabs about how little the debate changed in this race. It's still tied at 46 points. 92 percent of Democrats say if Joe Biden's the nominee, we'll vote for him. So they're saying Democrats are saying what you've just said, Joe, which is let us know what we're doing here. We will support whatever the effort is to defeat Donald Trump. We're on board. That is that important to us. Let us know what the plan is. And we're on board. Ninety two percent of Democrats in this poll that just crossed after

the debate, after these two weeks of consternation say if Joe Biden is the nominee, we will support him. They just want to know what the plan is. Well, and I will say also, Jonathan Lemire, and I know you've been covering this and you've been hearing and you've been reporting about it. You know, first of all, people are saying now the early response. So this is an outlier. This fall, we heard the same thing about the Bloomberg poll that was fairly positive for Joe Biden's swing states a few days ago. Oh, that's an outlier. You can only at some point, positive polls saying, as Willie just said, the debate didn't move anything. At some point, outliers stop becoming outliers and they become actual the polls that matter. I will say one thing that we do

have to underline here just so so viewers can can follow what's going on behind the scenes is is the Biden campaign and many Democratic officials do believe that Barack Obama is is quietly working behind the scenes to orchestrate this. And if Joe Biden believes that, that's not going to get him out of the race any faster. Anytime David Axelrod attacks him, David Axelrod ensures that Joe Biden will dig himself in another day. That's basically what Obama said. Anytime the pod bros say something nasty about Joe Biden, which they have repeatedly said nasty things about Joe Biden before the debate, after the debate, every time they do that. He digs in a little bit further. The pathway to Joe Biden graciously stepping aside does not go through the Obamas or the Clintons. It just doesn't. Again, as I said,

because some people don't understand, I'm not talking about what ought to be. I'm talking about what is. And this is the reality. Jonathan O'Meara, Joe Biden is deeply resentful of his treatment under not only the Obama staff, but also the way he was pushed aside for Hillary Clinton. He's deeply resentful of those trying to shove him out of the way. He's always felt like an outsider, always felt like people have looked down upon him. And that's why I said at the top of the show and people who know him best say the only people that can talk to him are Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kaufman, Chris Dodd, John Kerry, Ron Klain, of course, Jim Clyburn and and members of the Biden family. Hold on one

second. It's not just resentment. He's been right. And he's proven them wrong. Well, yeah, a lot of these same people are wrong. A lot of these same people have mocked and ridiculed him. You can look at David Axelrod's quotes through the years, mocked and ridiculed him on his way to victory in 2020. Yeah, President Biden, his whole political career, he talks about this is he feels like he's been underestimated and that fuels his success that he has been knocked down. He's suffered a number of setbacks. He's candid about it. And each time he gets himself back up and he forges forward. He talks about how as an Irishman, he proudly holds grudges. He doesn't let them go.

And he uses that as fuel. And you're right to highlight the 2015, 2016 decision when Obama's decided to support Hillary Clinton instead of his own vice president, Joe Biden, for the presidential nomination that year. That's something that has has eaten at Biden ever since. There are a select group of people he'd listen to. You just went through most of them. It certainly has to be underlined that his family would have the most sway. Another name I'd add would be Charles Chuck Schumer, the Senate majority leader. And there have been some Democrats who feel like if Schumer were to come to him and say, look, Schumer and Pelosi, perhaps if you stay atop the ticket, the effects down ballot would be devastating. Perhaps that'd be something he would listen to. Hakeem Jeffries has said he will share some concerns directly with the president in the days ahead. But every single signal that we've gotten from Biden camp

is he's made a decision. He's staying in. Now, there are real concerns about. Yeah, he's not going anywhere. There are concerns about fundraising and not just George Clooney, who did provide some firsthand reporting as to how he felt the president seemed at that fundraiser. The Biden team, we should note, has really pushed back on that, saying he had flown halfway around the world because George Clooney couldn't change his schedule and they had to have that fundraiser that day. And the two men only briefly interacted. So that there is that.

But more than that, but there is concerns, though, about donors saying, hey, the big money might dry up here unless something changes and changes fast. So we should just note as a final thought today matters. Yes, the press. First of all, the president is doing his job. He's on the world stage at NATO. He's meeting with President Zelensky of Ukraine. That matters.

Top Biden aides going to the Senate today to try to quell concerns, to prevent the dam from really breaking. That matters. And then at 5.30 p.m., that news conference where the president, no prompter, off the cuff, answering a number of questions from journalists, that's going to matter too, just to try to get Democrats to stay in line so they can then change the conversation and make it about Trump again as he names his VP and begins his convention the days ahead. You know, Willie, there are very few guarantees in life, as we all know, and there are hardly any guarantees at all in American politics. But if Joe Biden is watching this morning and he heard the quotes from Donald Trump's performance in Doral, Florida last night, I can guarantee you he's thinking to

himself, I can beat that guy. I can beat that guy. That's a guy who has not topped 50 percent in any poll that's been taken thus far. So there's that. And by the way, this idea of the new Trump over the last two weeks, the new Trump was he disappeared. He stepped off the stage and let Democrats have this fight. And then he showed up again two nights ago and everyone was reminded exactly of who he is. Jackie Alamany, a couple of quick notes. Playbook is reporting this morning that George Clooney gave former President Obama a heads up about the op ed he was going to post in The New York Times. President Obama reportedly, according to Playbook, didn't object. We know there were prominent people in Hollywood who work with the Biden campaign,

like Jeffrey Katzenberg, trying to talk George Clooney out of publishing that op ed. So there's a lot a lot of cross currents there. But so we talk about this Washington Post poll this morning. It's a national poll. We should remind people that some of the battleground polls have shown slippage for the president since the debate, but still mostly within the margin of error. So the question for you as you cover Capitol Hill today, Jackie, is what is the Democratic leadership waiting for? What do they need to see? What do they want to see? Is there going to be some is it the press conference today? Is it something else down the road? When will they consolidate? Not all of them. We've already seen some defections that say Donald that say Joe Biden should get out of the race. But when will the leadership finally say if it chooses to? Joe Biden is our candidate. We're getting behind him.

Yeah, Willie, we're looking at a few different things today. Obviously, the 530 press conference, that's going to be a huge, huge test for Biden. If the stakes weren't already high enough, Nancy Pelosi raised those stakes. Everyone is going to be watching that today. Fortunately, though, for lawmakers, they are all flying out prior to the press conference. So we might not be able to get instantaneous reaction there. But as we've seen with leaks these past two weeks, hopefully we will get a vibe shift reading ASAP. The other thing that we're looking at is this luncheon that Senate Democrats are having with the trio of top Biden campaign advisors. There has been a lot of frustration that basically no one on the Hill

has been able to get in touch with Biden. 1A told me yesterday that they felt like if any of the top leaders currently in House or Senate leadership called the White House switchboard, they doubt they would be able to reach Biden himself directly. A lot of Senate Democrats were grumbling that Biden himself isn't coming to the Senate luncheon. But what they're looking for from this luncheon is polls, data, a game plan, as we've all discussed, for these advisers to present to the Senate Democrats to try to staunch the bleeding. We're also looking closely at the Congressional Black Caucus. They had a weekly standing luncheon yesterday. That luncheon,

actually, funny enough, had been pre-scheduled with Debbie Dingell to present House messaging, primarily to talk about Project 2025 and how corrosive it is to the country and to Democratic voters. But what we've heard was actually there was a lot of grumbling in that meeting and that there's a lot of pressure now on the minority leader, Hakeem Jeffries, to try to get the CBC to pull back on their support for Biden. That is preventing a lot of people, I think, in the House from maybe coming forward and being more vocal and public and on the record with their concerns. You know, Mika, if you want a summary, a neat summation of where Democrats are, not only on the Hill, but across America, most of them are where Congressman Emanuel Cleaver are. He said, I want somebody who can win. And if it's Biden, it's fine. And if it's someone else, it's also fine. And that's where Democrats are.

They understand the threat posed by Donald Trump is existential. Yeah, this messy middle is not helping. And this is not about personalities. It's not about personal loyalty, not even political loyalty. It all comes down to who can win. And and that's that's the battle ahead for Democrats. They need to figure it out. They need to come together and and and they need to need to go for the win.

Congressional investigations reporter for The Washington Post, Jackie Alimany. Thank you very much. And still ahead on Morning Joe, President Biden touts a strong NATO on his second day hosting world leaders at the annual summit. We'll play for you his remarks on the importance of the alliance. Plus, U.S. National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan will join us live from the White House. But first, DNC Chair Jamie Harrison is standing by to talk about Democratic support for Biden's candidacy. He joins us next on Morning Joe. We're back in 90 seconds. A waitress came over, beautiful waitress, and I never like talking about physics. She's beautiful

inside because you never talk about a person's look ever. You never mentioned. The other day I got very angry. Some man called Chris Christie fat. And I said, sir. And then he said he was a pig. I said, sir, Chris Christie is not a fat pig. Please remember. He is not a fat pig. Please take it back.

And the guy's looking at me like, no, we have to defend people. You can't call people fat. I said about nine times, he is not a fat man. The abortion issue is much simplified right now because I brought it out, you know, by getting rid of Roe v. Wade. That was an incredible thing because after 52 years and everybody wanted this, Democrats, Republicans and all legal scholars wanted it. You know, this is not true. I mean, you know, I again, if you get your news, I'd love to hear what the follow up to that was, because I know if you get your news from from liars on TikTok or carnival barkers on other cable news networks, then you may believe that. You also may believe that the moon's made of cheese, I suppose, if they tell you that enough.

But the fact is, an overwhelming number of Americans oppose the overturning of Roe v. Wade. I've got to say, an overwhelming of legal scholars that that I've read disagree with the overturning of Roe v. Wade. And so for Donald Trump to say everybody was for it, this and that and the other, you know, that he goes around bragging about getting rid of it, terminating Roe v. Wade and then tries to back off. You know, it's just such a total mess on Roe v. Wade. The fact is, Donald Trump said he terminated Roe v. Wade. He's proud of it. He said that time and time again, despite the fact 60, 65, 70 percent of Americans were against the overturning of Roe v. Wade and have been for quite some time. The overturning of a right that women had for just about 50 years.

Yeah. And what Donald Trump has done is made pregnancy a harrowing experience, denied abortion health care to women who need it and is causing a risk to their lives and to babies as well. So what you just heard was Donald Trump speaking yesterday on the Fox News radio program, The Brian Kilmeade Show. The Biden campaign sent out an email yesterday seizing on those comments, highlighting the damage it says Trump has done to the country on the issue. You know, Willie, it's very interesting. He can't seem to get this abortion issue right. I mean, he he did what he did. And one day he'll talk about terminating Roe v. Wade. It was the greatest thing ever. And everybody was for it. That's a big lie. It's fact. It's just it's called chaos for Republicans at

the polls. And then the next day he'll say, oh, we're going to soften the language in the Republican Party platform like that's going to do anything. And then he'll get angry. He'll blame pro-life voters for costing Republicans a 2022 election, for costing him the 2020. I mean, it's just again, it's just a big mess, which means Americans will go to the default, which is Donald Trump terminated Roe v. Wade, just like he said. Well, that's objectively true. He appointed three Supreme Court justices who helped to overturn Roe versus Wade. He owns it.

He said it's what he wanted. He said it's what he wanted in the 2016 campaign. Remember, Chris Matthews asked him if women who get abortion should be punishment. He says, yes, there has to be some form of punishment. That's all on tape. It's all on the record. He got his Supreme Court justices. And here we are. There's just no running from that. But he knows, as you say, that it's bad politically. So he's trying to back away from it, which is no easy task, given the fact that he had such a hand in the overturning of Wade. Let's bring to the conversation the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Jamie Harrison.

Mr. Harrison, great to have you back on the show. We can talk about abortion in just a moment, but obviously you're hearing all the talk. You're hearing from Democrats, friends of yours, colleagues, members up on Capitol Hill who are worried about President Biden, worried about the debate. We'll be watching closely this press conference today. Is there any doubt in your mind that President Biden should be the Democratic nominee for president? No doubt whatsoever, Willie. Listen, 14 million people in 50 states and our five territories in D.C. and our Democrats abroad went to the polls, did caucuses and voted for Joe Biden to be our nominee.

So without any hesitation, equivocation, I am saying Joe Biden, who has over 90 percent of the delegates to the DNC convention, is the nominee for our party. And so, folks, it's time to follow the lead of the CBC. It's time to follow the lead of the CHC and what we saw at Labor yesterday. It's time to lock your knees and stiffen your spines and get on board to support this president. If you're spending more of your time on TV talking about Joe Biden than talking about Donald Trump and Project 2025, folks, you got to do a course correction. We got to focus on the greatest threat to American

democracy that we have ever seen. And that is in Donald Trump, a man who ripped away women's right to control their own bodies for the first time in 50 years. The daughters who are growing up now have less rights than their mothers and their grandmothers. We cannot allow that to continue and to happen. And the focus has to be on beating Donald Trump. And Joe Biden has done it before and he can do it again. So, Chairman Harrison, no question, the stakes of the election are as high as you say. We should note, though, that so many of these primary ballots were cast before that debate. These voters now have new information and so do lawmakers. And I guess my question to you is, how do you respond to like really influential Democrats

like House Speaker, former House Speaker Pelosi, who yesterday made clear she was not ready to just go along with with a Biden campaign? What is your answer to that? Well, the speaker made clear that she supports Joe Biden, has always supported Joe Biden and will support Joe Biden. has always supported Joe Biden and will support Joe Biden. You know, this is the thing that folks have to understand. Why do you vote for a president? Do you vote for a president because of their age? Do you vote for them because they debate well? Hell, if debating well was the real key to winning elected office,

I'd be a U.S. senator right now because I dragged Lindsey Graham's behind across that debate stage. That's not why you vote for a president. You vote for a president to get stuff done. And what president has gotten more stuff done than Joe Biden? This has been the most consequential, the most transformational president of my lifetime. I'm 48 years old. Think about the things that he has done to improve the lives of the American people. Right now, prescription drugs are lower of the American people. Right now, prescription drugs are lower because of Joe Biden. Right now, roads, bridges, Internet's being placed in communities. Lead pipes ripped out because of Joe Biden. Right now, a million veterans are getting more benefits to address the issues of being

exposed to toxic fumes because of Joe Biden, the largest climate investment in the history of this country because of Joe Biden. This man has transformed the judiciary. He has appointed more black women to the courts of appeal than all presidents combined. That's because of Joe Biden. First gun safety legislation in 30 years because of Joe Biden. I can go on and on and on about how this man has transformed this nation as president. That's why you vote for a president. Donald Trump can't claim that, but Joe Biden can. And that's what we need. He has earned this nomination.

It hadn't been given to him. He earned it because of the good work that he's done for the American people. And so we need to stick with him. Look at what the Republicans are doing right now. This guy has been convicted, Donald Trump, 34 times convicted felon, found liable of sexually assaulting a woman. And we're going to send that to the White House? Wake up, America. Wake up, Democrats. It's time to stiffen your spines and knock your knees and be for your president. Stop with all of the hand-wringing.

Let's focus on winning this election, not for Joe Biden, but for the American people. So, Chairman, when you hear Donald Trump in Florida last night and the kinds of things that he was saying at that event, and I erroneously quoted a Truth Social post about Kamala Harris, which is a fake, and that is my mistake. But when you hear him and the kinds of things he was saying in Florida, how do you account for the kinds of polls that Democratic congressmen are telling reporters they're seeing that show the Democrats doing so badly in House races in November, given what Donald Trump is saying out on the campaign trail this week? Well, this is the difference right now. Donald Trump is a lunatic. We all know that.

He's a narcissistic liar who wants to be a dictator on day one. His Project 25 2025 allows that to happen. His Supreme Court that says he has blanket immunity to do whatever the hell he wants allows him to do that. And what you have seen on the Republican side is them falling in line, knowing all of that that they've known, twice impeached and all, falling in line. The reason why the polls are as close as they are, and they're close, their rates are close, is because we as Democrats need to solidify behind our guy. Stop the hand-wringing, stop all of the cerebral hoops that we're jumping through, and focus on Joe Biden, a good man, a decent man, a man who has worked hard to transform this nation.

He's been doing the job for four years. He's doing it right now on the NATO stage. He has brought America back to its prominence in the international arena. So I don't understand whether I need to see this. I need to say, hell, you've seen it for the last three and a half years. What more do you need to see? We were talking a few months ago about how amazing Joe Biden's speech, one of the best speeches we've ever seen in the state of union. And because of a 90 minute debate, we throw all of that away. Come on, folks, focus on what is important, which is America's freedom. You got two men in this race, two men. You got Donald Trump, who we know who he is and what he will do because he's done it before. And we have Joe Biden, who has a track record better than any president in my lifetime.

Let's do the right thing. Let's focus on supporting this president and let's get this done. Chair of the Democratic National Committee, Jamie Harrison, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. Come back soon. Appreciate it. No ambiguity. No. See, I appreciate a lack of ambiguity. No ambiguity. That's what we need right now. Coming up as President Biden touts the importance of NATO. Some world leaders appear to be nervous of a second Trump presidency. We'll break down their concerns ahead on Morning Joe. Here's what one Democratic rep had to say coming out of yesterday's closed door meeting. You're on the same page. No. What do you mean you're not on the same page?

You're not even in the same book. Wow, that's pretty rough. Well, could I recommend a new book? Can he beat RFK with his brain full of worm? Just ask him. Just ask him. The man loves to talk as long as you ask him before eight o'clock. Welcome back to Morning Joe. It is Thursday, July 11th. Jonathan Lemire, Mike Barnicle and Katty Kay are still with us and joining the conversation. We have former MSNBC host and contributor to Washington Monthly, Chris Matthews joins us. Good to have you on this morning, Chris. And here is more from the Washington Post poll we mentioned a few moments ago. The latest Washington Post, ABC News, Ipsos poll finds that two thirds of U.S. adults want President Biden to step aside

and let someone else run. Fifty six percent of Democrats say President Biden should end his candidacy, while 42 percent say he should continue to seek reelection. That same poll finds Biden and former President Donald Trump in a dead heat, with both candidates receiving 46 percent support nationally among registered voters. I'm going to just tee you up there, Joe. I just say, Willie, I mean, let's again look at really the main takeaways here. One, like other polls, not all polls, but there have been several polls that have shown very little slippage for Joe Biden since that debate. In fact, The New York Times Siena poll, which is usually one of the most negative result oriented polls for Joe Biden, actually showed Biden picking up among independent voters, even though he's, I think, down six. This Washington Post poll shows two thirds of Americans think Joe Biden should get out of the race because he's too old.

And yet he is tied with Donald Trump, 46 percent to 46 percent. And the question for those Democrats who throw that away, who seriously in their heart believe, as we've talked about before, that Joe Biden is too old. He needs to step aside and let somebody younger run who can beat Donald Trump. How do you push somebody out of the White House who won the primary, all the every primary contest, 90 percent of the votes, 90 percent of the delegates, and is a couple of days away from being voted, I think, online a couple of days away of being voted the party's nominee, especially when you have a poll that shows he's dead even and other polls that show he does better than any other Democrat lined up against Donald Trump. It is a it's an extraordinary moment. And this poll really puts that into relief that the race nationally is tied after all we've been talking about fully for two

weeks now. We're two weeks out from that debate where Joe Biden performed so poorly and has been scrambling to kind of keep everything together since then, keep his party together, keep his support together. 46-46 nationally. We will say again, some of the battleground state polls, the ones that really matter,

have seen Donald Trump increase his margins there a bit since the debate. But most of those still are within the margin of error. But you're right. Forty six percent of Democrats say he should get out of the race. Sixty seven percent of adults in this new poll say he should get out of the race. But it's still those numbers you're looking at are the same numbers we saw since April. I would point out that in this poll, Joe Biden's approval rating among all voters and among Democrats exactly where it was in April.

He's still the guy they believe that if he does decide to stay in the race, 92 percent, again, of Democrats say they will support him in this new poll. So, Chris Matthews, with all of that as a backdrop, fascinated to hear your thoughts about this moment, where we are, whether this president should move forward, whether he should step aside and open the door to the great unknown for Democrats. Many Democrats appear willing to take that risk and see what's behind the door. What do you think? Well, I think we have to look at all the facts. And one of the facts is Joe Biden. He's a fact. This guy has earned his way to this position in life. United States president. He got here the long way. 1972, he ran against Caleb Boggs, a three term congressman, a two term governor, a two term U.S. senator, and he beat him. He beat him well. And he rode around in a car the next day and was celebrated for having pulled that upset because he put out no television in Wilmington

or Delaware. He put out literature the weekend before delivered by volunteers, which was a brilliant, a brilliant piece of literature. John Martilla did it. He is a politician who's been good at it. He's been reelected every time since then in Delaware with pretty healthy majorities and life. He lost his wife and he lost his daughter and he found Jill. Now, who's he going to listen to, Jill or George Clooney? I'm telling you, it's personal. He's had the elite and it's so true about the elite. He is absolutely right about the elite. Look at President Obama. He served for eight years loyally, and yet Obama backed Hillary Clinton for president and didn't back him. I hear he never even invited him upstairs. He had a good reason

to be resentful, but he isn't. He puts up with it with the elite. But right now he's got the poor people. He's got minorities. He's got Hispanics. He's going to put out the labor. He's going to hold that base of the Democratic Party, which he will need in November. And I'm telling you, people are going to end up rooting for him in October because he will have a comeback. And in this elite fashioned attack on him, they're going to pay for it. But in the end, they're going to end up voting for him. So I think Biden will be the little guy. He'll be the Democrat in this race, the true Democrat. And he's going to get people to turn for him in October. It's going to be stunning. He is not quitting. He is not built to quit. That's what I think.

And I think it's the most important thing we're going to resolve here by tonight. I hope he's prepared to face the press. The press will not be easy on him. They've been kept from him. The New York Times editorial board never got to interview him before, before they came out against him. Philadelphia Inquirer the same way. He has not been available to the press. The people around him who come up this lunchtime to meet with the senators have to explain that. They have to explain why they have kept him in a witness protection program for all these months. Why haven't they let the press meet with him?

Why do they keep turning down interviews? Why do they have to prepare for days to meet with Lester Holt on Monday? Why don't they just come up to the... Why doesn't he just come up to the Hill and meet with the senators? You're up there, I'll be there in a half hour. Oh, I'll be there in 10 minutes.

Just get it over with. Meet with them. Because they've kept them from meeting with him. And I think this is a real question they're going to have to answer.