Morning Joe - Morning Joe 7/12/23

Episode Date: July 12, 2023

NATO offers vague terms, timeline for Ukraine

In the final year of his administration, we end up with Dr. Fauci, you know, the de facto head of the country. He's incredibly thin-skinned and he starts to lash out. Our country can't keep dealing with this chaos and this negativity. We've got to go forward. Donald Trump better show up on that stage, because if he doesn't, he's telling everybody that he's afraid to defend his record. He's afraid to face the men and women on that stage.

And I don't want a coward being nominated against Joe Biden. He's afraid to defend his record. He's afraid to face the men and women on that stage. And I don't want a coward being nominated against Joe Biden. A few of Donald Trump's challengers in the 2024 presidential race with direct criticism of the former president. Tough talk. Yeah, a little bit. It comes as the Department of Justice will no longer defend him in a defamation lawsuit. We'll explain why the DOJ is backing off its previous position. Plus, Republican Congressman James Comer doubles down on his defense. Wait a second. I'm so confused. He's doubling down on his defense of a guy who illegally is an agent of the communist Chinese government and illegally is funneling Iranian oil to Chinese communists and who is an illegal arms dealer and lied to authorities about all of those things.

And now is actually on the run after being indicted. That's that's who James Comer and the Republican Party is defending. That is this so-called whistleblower is now facing charges. So we'll have more on that. Meanwhile, Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville of Alabama is backtracking on comments about white nationalists serving in the military. who like funnels illegally arraigning oil to the communist Chinese and is an illegal arms trafficker and illegal agent for the communist Chinese. And then on the Senate side, you've got a 57, 58 year old guy from Alabama who refuses to call white nationalists racists. Is this, I guess, I don't know, is this their 2024 strategy? And Senator Tuberville had to be dragged kicking and

screaming to that position. He's been defending white nationalists now for many, many weeks and say, well, that's your definition. You know, I define white nationalists one way, you define it another way. And finally, yesterday, under pressure from other Republicans said, OK, yeah, if you define them the way you're defining them, then they're racist. That's only one part of his day. The other part of Senator Tuberville's day is threatening military readiness by holding up all these appointments in the Marine Corps and beyond. So he's he's on quite a roll. And in doing that, he's also, you know, preventing women from really wanting to join the military if they want to get health care while they're in there. I mean, it goes on and on and on with that man,

along with Joe, Willie and me. We have MSNBC contributor Mike Barnicle, Washington bureau chief for USA Today, Susan Page and White House editor for Politico, Sam Stein. Well, so so Mike Barnicle, let me just in the words of my grandma, Clark, let me just just tear the rag off the churn and tell you, I always find all star games to be horrifically boring. But I sit there and smile with everybody around the TV set acting like I love this midsummer treat. But really, you know, when they're sitting cross-legged in right field and sometimes lying back in the grass and talking to the announcers, it's all a bit too casual for my liking. I want Pete Rose, like, I think Rose started a fight in the 1970s in an All-Star game, going in spikes high into second base and starting a brawl.

I mean, instead of these guys just kind of, you know, just kind of jogging around, taking it all in. Am I wrong, Mike? No, you're not wrong. Neither was Grammy Clark. Grammy Clark was right too, Joe, you know? I mean, she was right. And Pete Rose crashed into the plate, not second You know, I mean, she was right.

And Pete Rose crashed into the plate, not second base, and ended that catcher's career, basically, at that All-Star game in the 70s. He played hard every time he played. The All-Star game last night was a terrible bore. You're absolutely right. I mean, I fell asleep at about the fifth or sixth inning. First of all, I'm appalled at the uniforms they wore. Terrible. The National League looks like they werealled at the uniforms they wore. Terrible. The National League looks like they were working at a jiffy loop. Just terrible.

Oh my. It was horrible. I'm angry. And Willie. A jiffy loop. The thing is, Willie, that these are such incredible athletes, and they're really entertaining guys. And, I mean, you just look, the first two fly outs, deep to right and then deep to left,

they're great athletes, and I don't know. They need to do something to put a little bit of edge, a little bit of competition into this game. I don't know what it is, though. Well, this is always the problem with all-star games. You anticipate, and then you could say that's certainly about the Pro Bowl. They had to change the format because that game was so bad. It didn't even resemble football. NBA all-star game becomes a pickup game where they score 180 points

and nobody plays any defense. But I don't know. I think it's a nice break. It's fun to see all these guys in the same place. I didn't mind Mookie Betts and Freddie Freeman talking to each other. They were great. They were great together because they've got the mics and the IFBs during the game. But, yeah, if I'm being honest, I think I turned it off in the fourth inning, too.

What about when they had Nadia Valdi wired up? The starting pitcher, Joe. I mean, I was annoyed that they were annoying him. Yeah. Leave him alone. Well, I was annoyed. But, you know, Nico will tell you, you know, I can do two, three, four or five things at a time. I'm a multitasker from way back. But Sam Stein, when Nate Evaldi is sitting there trying to figure out how to get like batters out and he's sitting there talking, doing color commentary on his next pitch. I, like, started, like, sweating for him.

It was like, I will say, at that point, it was like seeing the end of Oppenheimer. I had no idea what was going to happen. Yeah, no, I agree. That is nerve-wracking, to say the least. I basically become a pool of sweat when someone is talking to me during an outro, and so I could not throw a baseball with that type of distraction. And I will join the chorus here. The game is a bore. I mean, it just is plainly a bore.

I do like the home run derby. I feel like they've spiced that up. It's nice. It's funny. I believe in Japan they have these contests during their version of the All-Star Game where you can like, who can lay down the best bunt and stuff like that. And maybe that's just where we should go is like individual skill sets. Like let's see who could throw the furthest, you know, the ball the furthest. Who could hit the cutoff man the most times or something like that.

But this little, this nine inning game just becomes not watchable. Joe, I'm not sure the bunt contest is the solution. No, no, you've got to watch it. You've got to watch it. It's so good. It's so good.

I'm going to put an end to this. I was going to say, Susan Page. No, you're totally wrong. Put an end to this. In an era of home runs, I'm not so sure the kids would go, hey, Johnny, you've got to watch this. You've got to watch this in front of the TV set at 9.30 p.m. at night. Find the video. Find the video. It's so good. And well Nate's bottomed down the third baseline.

No, it's so good. You guys are so wrong. Unbelievable. Worst call ever. All right. I'm putting an end to this. Thank you. We've got to get to our top story.

You're welcome. That wasn't our top story. You guys went way too long. That was too much. All right. It wasn't good. Okay. Except guys went way too long. That was too much. All right. It wasn't good. Okay. Except for Mike Barnicle.

All right. We're following some major developments out of the NATO summit in Lithuania. The alliance says it will invite Ukraine to join, but only when allies agree and conditions are met. These are live pictures of Ukrainian President Zelensky addressing world leaders right now. The group did not give a timeline or details on what those conditions might be. The vague wording is in line with what President Joe Biden said last week, calling a pathway to membership for Ukraine premature while it is at war with Russia. As The New York Times points out, it appears the president and like minded allies have prevailed over Poland and Baltic nations that wanted a formal saying for six months, a lot of people in the foreign policy community inside and outside of the administration that have been saying for six months that at one at some point they're going to need to figure out how to bring this war to an end because it was looking like it would end up in a stalemate.

And a lot of a lot of people in the administration were predicting exactly what's happened with the spring offensive. So it shouldn't be a surprise that they're not they're not going to wave this red flag in front of Russia at this point as they're trying to end the war. And also there are if you talk to leaders in the EU, they say, yes, we want Ukraine in, but they have to meet certain standards that we're not going to waive for anybody. So I know it's very frustrating for Zelensky and very frustrating for those of us who support what Ukraine is doing. But, you know, this is not going to be rushed, is it? No. And in fact, if if if Ukraine were part of NATO now, would we not then have an obligation to be battling Russia? And as President Biden has said, wouldn't that be World War Three? I mean, they did make some steps at the summit yesterday in telling Ukraine that when it when the war is over, they can kind of jump the process. They can avoid the initial process for getting into NATO.

That was something. And I think no surprise to Ukraine. It's been a consistent position in the United States. The United States continues to say privately to Ukraine that there will ultimately have to be a diplomatic solution to this war, diplomatic resolution, probably not a military one. And that's a hard that's a that's a hard message in some ways for Ukraine. But it is probably the realistic one as we look ahead to what's going to happen with this war. Let's go to the summit in Vilnius. NBC News White House correspondent Monica Alba is there for us. Monica, good morning. So we know President Biden will meet with President Zelensky in a bilateral

meeting coming up in just a couple of hours from now. And the subject of the conversation will be perhaps President Zelensky's frustration that Ukraine has not been admitted into NATO. President Biden, Jake Sullivan, who we'll talk to later, the national security advisor, who say that day is coming. But frankly, the member states of NATO don't want to be dragged into this war with Russia militarily. Exactly, Willie. And that day isn't coming soon enough for President Zelensky. And I think you can expect him to continue to make his case for why Ukraine should maybe be continually fast tracked as a member nation for NATO, even though the U.S. and other Western countries have said very plainly that the time is not right because conditions haven't been met yet from a security reform perspective and from a democratic reform perspective. But you saw yesterday before he got here, President Zelensky called this unprecedented. He said that this kind of uncertainty says something about the weakness of this position. And ultimately, the U.S. officials and the White House this morning

are responding by saying, we agree this is unprecedented in terms of just how much support we're stepping up and continuing to give to Ukraine. So that will be the message today. Yesterday, the focus was on what Ukraine was feeling they weren't able to get in the short term in terms of a timeline and commitment for ascension into NATO. Today will be all about what they are going to get in the long term when it comes to security. And you're already seeing some of these NATO countries pledging to train Ukrainian pilots on those F-16 fighter jets, something that we had talked about over and over again in recent months in terms of the U.S. delivering those after a lot of deliberation. And then I think you'll also expect to see President Biden today continue to

talk about the weaponry, those controversial cluster munitions that the U.S. is going to be providing to Ukraine. But then also the fact that they are going to be able to say to Ukraine that now individual countries are going to be able to make some bilateral security agreements with them, that Ukraine will be a bigger part in terms of being raised from their current status to a new status here at NATO, which means they can basically call a meeting with all of the member countries. Of course, the newest being Sweden and Finland, which we expect to happen imminently, which was a huge headline out of this summit as well. So continue to expect President Biden to tout this unity, this show

of support, despite President Zelensky still saying thanks for all that. But we would still like to see even more, Willie. And we will see those two together, as I said, just a couple of hours from now. NBC's Monica Alba at the summit in Vilnius, Lithuania. Monica, thanks so much. So, Mike, President Biden will meet with President Zelensky a short time from now, saying we have been with you from the beginning of this war. We'll be with you for as long as it takes to win this war, to end this war. But not enough in this moment anyway for President Zelensky, who says we want to be in NATO. What do you expect President Biden to say to him privately today? Well, I think I think the president of the United States is certainly aware that every single

day Zelensky puts his life on the line in this country. And then he has been a noble, an honorable and a heroic leader of Ukraine, giving that country strength, moral strength, physical strength. And out and so outgoing that he has managed to assemble a group of allies who are keeping the country alive. The president of the United States knows all of this, but the president of the United States also knows that without the United States leadership, that strip of film that we just showed with all of the NATO leaders on the stage, grouped together, and they are together. That was stunning to Vladimir Putin 18 months ago. He never expected something like that to happen. And it happened because of Joseph R. Biden.

That's the only reason it happened. Bringing NATO together like that in support of Ukraine, in addition to all of the incredible technical support, armaments, and other support, intelligence support as well, that the United States has provided Ukraine. So I think there's going to be a balance in this conversation. And I think President Zelensky clearly knows he has to show deep gratitude to the United States has provided Ukraine. So I think there's going to be a balance in this conversation. And I think President Zelensky clearly knows he has to show deep gratitude to the United States. This is not like applying to get into Augusta National. I mean, you've got to wait your turn

here. And they're involved in an active hot war each and every day. So we'll see what happens at the meeting. And Mike, I completely agree with your comments and your attitude here. You know, I've got to say, it's always rich when this leader that we've supported, Zelensky, who I've said on the show many times is a hero, and he's acted in extraordinarily heroic ways from the very beginning. He's a great example. Compared him to Churchill, said at times he and his family were in greater danger than Churchill and his family ever were at the height of the Battle of Britain in 1940 and 41. But when he starts attacking allies and when he starts talking about, quote,

weakness, I must say it's a little rich. And perhaps he could read a little bit of history from Winston Churchill and the way he worked FDR. I only say that because we've given Ukraine over 40 billion dollars. We've given them twice as much as I believe Europe combined. We've given them extraordinary amounts of munitions. We've given them extraordinary amounts of anti-aircraft weapons, tanks, jets. We're supporting it all. And we do it gladly because we're not just doing it for the Ukrainians. We're doing it to defend freedom in Europe and to push back against an illegal and immoral invasion. We get all of that. But Sam Stein and I suppose perhaps we all would be saying what

President Zelensky is saying if he were in his position. But but I will say from Joe Biden's point of view and from the point of view of many Americans, we have a president and a Congress that have been that have been walking on a razor's edge for a year and a half between balancing freedom and possibly starting World War III with a country that has more nuclear weapons than any other country on the planet. Sometimes we can't just put our heads down and charge ahead like a bull in a China shop. Right. And this is what we asked White House spokesperson Emily Simons this morning. Is there any frustration in the administration over that Zelensky comment yesterday, which, to your point, Joe, seemed to have an absence of gratitude, I guess is the right word, for what has been delivered so far to the

country. And of course, you know, diplomatically, she sidestepped the question, saying everyone's on the same page and they all have the same sort of general agreement about where we should end up. It's just a difference of timing and process. But I think, you know, what we should consider here is that hanging over all this discussion about NATO membership is the very real possibility, in fact, the likelihood that any diplomatic resolution to this current standoff, like war in Ukraine right now, will involve some sort of negotiation around Ukrainian NATO membership. The Russians will not sign off on any diplomatic end to the war if there isn't a guarantee that Ukraine forgoes NATO membership.

And so I think Zelensky is probably looking at that future and saying, I need to get in under the under the wire. And I think the NATO allies themselves, including the U.S., are probably looking at that future and saying, we can eliminate that diplomatic card right now because down the road we will need to possibly play it in order to end this war. I think that's the big unstated factor here as people are gathering in Lithuania. Yeah. I mean, what makes NATO, NATO is that all the countries in it agree and meet the same requirements. That's number one. Number two, for a country that's not a part of NATO, they're doing pretty well. They are getting the support of NATO unlike any anyone has ever seen in the world.

This is unprecedented. So I think there's agreement on that. At the same time, Zelensky is going to fight for what he can get for his country and for his people. And he's also representing his people. And they want to see him fight for everything. Well, again, if you're in his position, you understand him pushing as far as he can push and be very careful about, again, attacking a country that's given you over 40 billion dollars and an alliance that has literally kept kept the country afloat and kept him alive. And I will say right now, it may not be NATO membership, but if the United States comes to you and starts talking about the Israeli model, it's not a really bad model to follow. Nobody's going to invade Israel.

No foreign country is going to invade Israel without understanding they're going to have to go through the United States. And that's been the case since 1948. So this is going to be messy. It's not going to be perfect. As I said yesterday, if we really want to get to a resolution where you have a peace agreement and you stop future invasions of that area by Russia and we actually as a world, actually stand by our word in protecting Ukrainian sovereignty, unlike 2014. Well, then that's going to mean we're going to bring in a lot of people around that peace table, including the Chinese, to get a deal that at the end of the day protects Ukraine, not only for next year, but for the next generation. And that's again, it's not going to be perfect. That's why that's a few negotiations are.

We have a lot more coming up on this, but let's turn to politics here at home. Republican House Oversight Committee chair James Comer says he still wants to talk to Gal Luft, the so-called whistleblower who Republicans have claimed would expose alleged corruption by President Joe Biden and his son, Hunter. That's despite the Department of Justice indicting Luft on charges of acting as an unregistered agent of China, lying to law enforcement and arms trafficking. Luft is currently on the run and considered a fugitive by the DOJ. He was initially arrested in February before skipping bail. Congressman Comer is now questioning the DOJ's timing of unsealing the indictment against Luft. I'm sorry, wasn't the DOJ challenged to actually show the charges? Yeah. I mean,

a couple of days ago they said, oh, well, why don't they show the charges? They show the charges. It's always a conspiracy theory. So what's happening is you've got James Comer standing on the side, I suppose, of of of people who are, maybe spies for China? People that are engaging in illegal arms trafficking? People who are illegally funneling Iranian oil to the communist Chinese? Is that who he wants to defend? That's what Comer told reporters

yesterday, followed by his appearance on Fox News. He's a credible witness because he worked for CDFC, just like Hunter Biden. I'm not saying those witnesses are guilty. I'm just saying that he worked for the same company that Hunter Biden worked for. And I want to know what the company did and what, if he has any knowledge of what role the Bidens play. With respect to the DOJ, I find it odd that they were very quick to move on making their indictment unsealed. But at the end of the day, you look at what they indicted him for, Brett.

They indicted him for being an unregistered foreign agent. Well, that's what Hunter Biden was doing for the same company. Only Hunter Biden received hundreds of thousands of dollars more than Gall Luft received. I'm not saying Gall Luft is completely innocent of anything. He's going to obviously have his opportunity to tell his side of the story. But at the end of the day, I know this, the thing that the Department of Justice indicted him on is one of the things that I think Hunter Biden should have been indicted on for five years ago. So the fact that the Department of Justice has moved so quickly on Gall Luft, but they haven't done

anything other than turn a blind eye to Hunter Biden is is very concerning. They were like challenged to actually release the information of the indictment several days ago, if I'm not mistaken, by the fugitive himself. The fugitive said, you know, go ahead, go ahead. And I dare you to. And they did. And it was, again, illegal arms trafficking, which I guess Comer's OK with, being an illegal agent for the communist Chinese, which I guess Comer's OK with, illegally funneling Iranian oil to the communist Chinese, which I guess Comer's OK with lying to to authorities about all of these things, which I guess Comer's OK with. It's it's fascinating. Let's bring in right now, editor of The Bulwark, Jonathan Last. Jonathan, my God, I mean, you talk about looking

for love in all the wrong places. This Comer guy. It's absolutely horrific. Tell us who this gal Luft is. As you say, this Luft, this whistleblower, this grifter, this spy, this illegal oil trafficker to the communist Chinese party. Who is he? So what you have to understand is that projection is the sincerest form of Trumpism, right? This is, you know, this is, so Gallup is this guy

who's co-director of a think tank in DC. And he, unlike, you know, like Arthur Brooks at AEI or, you know, you know, he seems to spend his time running around, especially in China, doing work for the Chinese government. So he his story, this is amazing, is that he is doing this perfectly legal stuff that's all above board for the CEFC, the Chinese government's energy company,

and that his bosses at CEFC tell tell him boy this hunter biden thing that we're doing over here is super shady and because he's a patriot he decides he's going to uh go to the department of justice the fbi and spill the beans on all the really bad stuff that hunter biden is doing so he he has a meeting in brussels in 2019 which is correct me if I'm wrong, when Joe Biden is not president. And he tells he tells a delegation of people from the FBI and the Southern District of New York all the things that he has learned about the terrible illegal things that Hunter Biden is doing. And then because I guess Donald Trump's Justice Department is super apolitical, they decide not to do anything with it. And Gallup says that they then went and just buried all the evidence that he gave them. And he, in fact, told them also that the Biden crime family had a mole inside the FBI codenamed One Eye.

This is all real. Oh, my God. So, Jonathan, take us back to 2019 is when Gal Luft goes and talks to the Justice Department and Donald Trump's Justice Department, Bill Barr. Yes. They decide to do nothing with it. They found no evidence that there was a connection between Hunter Biden, the Bidens, anybody else. I mean, you have to ask yourself how how far is this? How deep does this conspiracy really go? Right. I mean, this is yes. So what he alleges that they went and they

buried all of this and and but, you know, he has the goods and we all have to take his word for it as he's putting out videos from an undisclosed location, because, again, he is a fugitive on the run. And so, Jonathan, what does that mean now for the Republicans like James Comer, who still are doubling down on this guy, holding him up as the key to the entire investigation? Are they going to stick by this guy? I mean, they got to find him first. But once they find him, are they going to stick by him as the key to the whole alleged Biden crime family? Yeah, I think so. As a political matter, I don't think they can let go of this.

They got to keep doubling down and doubling down and doubling down. But what you know, the big missing piece on all of this is I'm happy to stip stipulate that hunter biden is a bad guy and may have committed crimes and it seems from the outside that the the there's been a pretty rigorous investigation of him there is no evidence that joe biden is involved in any any of this right this is you know show me one piece of evidence that the president is somehow involved because that would be bad right Right. But but there doesn't seem to be any. And I think the Republicans just have to keep doubling down and doubling down because it's it's one more thing that they can throw against the wall. While Donald Trump has

been actually indicted himself a couple of times, maybe indicted another time or two before the election. This is one of the ways they just get to keep muddying the water and pretending. I think they need Hunter Biden to help help themselves pretend that the Trump stuff isn't so bad. Right. This is how they convince themselves that, you know, oh, he's just as bad as our guy. I'm old enough to remember when getting indicted like hurt your credibility, didn't boost it. But going back to fundamentals, where where is Sluft? And what are the odds that we're going to the american law enforcement is going to get their hands on him uh we don't know where he is i i have no idea myself i i mean he seems to be presenting he said in his his 14 minute video which he sent by the way

to the new york post which is if i was an innocent guy being persecuted by the deep state i would probably reach out to reuters or the ap or agentsence France-Presse or somebody like that. He sent it to the New York Post. Make your own conclusions on that. He says that he may be on the run for the rest of his life. So he seems to be planning for the long game. And it's just amazing. You can't make this stuff up. You really can't. Let me just just say and Willie, of course, I think at this point we need to let Jonathan know that the New York Post, the aforementioned newspaper is the paper of record for Morning Joe.

So, yes, if I were guilty, if I were guilty, Willie, of selling illegal Iranian oil to the communist Chinese, and if I were charged with being an illegal agent to the communist Chinese government, and if I were charged illegally selling weapons and lying to authorities about it, Willie, who would I go to first? You always go to the Post. Why, just this morning, Joe, they've got a front page splash about former Mets pitcher Matt Harvey's new girlfriend. I rest my case.

Let's see. Great. Let's see. So, yeah. See? I rest my case. That's it. You know, listen, listen.

Is that what they say? Is that the headline? And, by the way, I'd send it there for the headlines. OK, Edward the Bulwark, Jonathan Last. That said, Jonathan, we appreciate your time. Very much. And Sam Stein, thank you as well. Thanks for doing Wait to Really this morning.

Sam, are you really, really going to go to the Mets over a bunting contest? Do you really think a bunting contest is what American baseball needs? Yes. Goodbye, Sam. Thank you. Still ahead on Morning Joe, we'll be joined by National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan,

ahead of President Biden's meeting with Ukrainian President Zelensky this morning. Plus, a top U.S. general is warning about the far-reaching impact of Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville's decision to block military promotions over the abortion issue. Also ahead, the Iowa legislature passes a bill to ban most abortions after six weeks. We'll get a live report from that early voting state. By the way, I think Iowa and Ohio could now be in play. I would have never said that a year ago, ever. And the very latest on the severe flooding across the Northeast and the federal government's response. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. Does it feel that your life's become a catastrophe?

35 past the hour. Welcome back. Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville of Alabama is now backtracking on comments this week in which he said it's only some people's opinion that white nationalists are racist. His new remarks come after an interview in May where he implied he would be OK with white nationalists serving in the military. Take a listen to his comments from that interview, followed by his remarks from Monday. We are losing in the military so fast. Our readiness in terms of recruitment. And why? I can tell you why. Because the Democrats are attacking our military saying we need to get out the white

extremists, the white nationalists, people that don't believe in our agenda as Joe Biden's agenda. They're destroying it. You mentioned the Biden administration trying to prevent white nationalists from being in the military. Do you believe they should allow white nationalists in the military? Well, they call them that. I call them Americans. First of all, I'm totally against any type of racism, okay? I was a football coach for 40 years, and I dealt and had opportunity to be around more minorities than anybody up here on this hill. White nationalist is just another word that they want to use other than racism. But just to be clear, you agree that white nationalists should not be serving in the

U.S. military. Is that what you're saying? If people think that a white nationalist is a racist, I agree with that. I agree. A white nationalist is someone who believes that the white race is superior to other races. Well, that's some people's opinion. And I don't think I mean, pardon? What's your opinion? My opinion of a white nationalist, if somebody wants to call him white nationalist, to me is an American. It's American. Now, if that white nationalist is a racist, I'm totally against anything that they want to do because I am 110 percent against racism. After those remarks, both leaders Schumer and McConnell criticized the Alabama senator yesterday and soon after receiving backlash

from both sides of the aisle for his comments, Tuberville attempted to backtrack his remarks. The senator from Alabama is wrong, wrong, wrong. The definition of white nationalism is not a matter of opinion. White nationalism, the ideology that one race is inherently superior to others, that people of color should be segregated, subjected and relegated to second-class citizenship is racist down to its rotten core. And for the senator from Alabama to obscure the racist nature of white nationalism is indeed very, very dangerous. I urge my Republican colleagues to impress upon the senator from Alabama the destructive impact of his words and urge him to apologize. Do you have any concern that you have a member of your conference, Senator Kupferbill, who seems to have a hard time denouncing white nationalism, especially as it pertains to white nationalism in the military?

White supremacy is simply unacceptable in the military and in our whole country i'm totally against racism if the democrats say that a white nationalist somebody says that's the definition then i'm totally against white nationals okay yeah i mean everybody's got a different but i'm not getting any definitions, but I am totally against any form of racism. I was happy. I was a football coach. I dealt with more minorities than everybody in this building. And so I treated everybody with respect and made sure everybody had the full opportunity. Mike, he still didn't say, he still didn't say that white nationalists are racist. He just made a little way. He says, oh, if that's somebody's definition.

But this guy has lived in the South for 50 something years, 55, 56, seven years. He knows he knows exactly that white nationalists believe that black people and Hispanic people, anybody who's not white. They are inferior because of their race. He understands that. So I'm not exactly sure why he still has not said that white nationalists are racist. But this idea that he's backtracked, no, he hasn't backtracked at all. Well, you know, there's a possibility that Coach Tuberville might still be under concussion protocol. Who knows? But listen, Joe, the problem is that this guy's ignorance, Senator Tuberville of Alabama, his ignorance is still impeding the promotions and the pay scale ups for millions, for hundreds of American

military members. And he does it every day, impeding progress in the United States military, impeding progress that, you know, a lot of families have problems with moving to one state or another because of the lack of health benefits for women and the fear of having to need reproductive services from doctors that won't be available to them. This guy is impeding all of that in addition to what he's doing, displaying his ignorance on a daily basis. And as you pointed out, he has not changed his position. If you listen to his words, he has not changed his position. It's ignorant. And it's definition of who Senator Tuberville is. Yeah. And I would go further. Unfortunately, I wish this was ignorance that at least would explain it if he was just stupid.

It was just a stupid man. But he's not. He has lived in that state for a long time. He has served the state. He is coached in the state. He knows exactly what he's saying. And he is speaking to white nationalists in that answer. Sort of like stand back and stand by where you're nonsensical, but you're actually speaking to them. And then you say, you know, oh, if Democrats say that's the definition, he knows the definition and he will not condemn white nationalism. That's the bottom line. It's not ignorance. This was his point. The cruelty and the white nationalism was the point here. And he said Democrats were criticizing. That's right. Republicans were criticizing for it as well.

But he brings it back to Democrats and makes it political. And now the head of the Republican Party in the United States Senate and others criticize him. And again, you know, I always like to talk about this country moving towards a more perfect union. There are a group of Republicans that are taking at least their party, their their their their wing of the party in reverse very quickly. It's 2023 and you have a United States senator that that is refusing to call white nationalists racists and only says, well, if you that's what you say they are, then I'm against. That's what Democrats say they are. This is again, I just to remind you how badly things have gotten in this party.

It was not so long ago that an Iowa congressman got kicked off of all of his committees by the Republican Party for saying things that were far less offensive than what Tommy Tuberville is saying every day. Yes. Let's bring in a White House correspondent for Politico and co-author of the playbook, Eugene Daniels. He's a Morning Joe senior contributor. Eugene, what more are you hearing about this? I mean, Tommy Tuberville is in the news lately, not just for white nationalism, but for preventing

women in the military from being able to for white nationalism, but for preventing women in the military from being able to attain abortions or wanting that to happen and holding up nominations and promotions in the military as a result. Yeah, there's been a frustration in the Republican Party because of his failure to say anything against white nationalists in this country, white nationalists in the military, white nationalists in the military, because folks feel like it's distracting from what some of them kind of agree with, that he is trying to force the Pentagon to get rid of this rule that they are allowing women and people who need abortions to travel and all of that.

He's holding up these nominations because of it. And I will say, as someone who played football until my college years, you can be a college coach, you can be a coach and still have some racism in you. We'll just leave it there. But he has moved the goalposts on this, one starting with wanting a vote on this and rescinding this from the Pentagon. And now he is kind of standing even firmer in the gap, saying that he wants the Pentagon to completely retract this policy. It's unlikely that the Pentagon is going to do that. You talk to anyone within the administration, anyone in the Pentagon, in the Department of Defense, and they'll say that it's unlikely that this is actually going to happen.

And so it leaves you at this standstill. And then when you talk to a lot of these Republicans, what they say is, now the readiness, if he continues this and you have the lack of one commandant, and if that continues, then that affects the readiness of the military, which is what he says that he is trying to stop. Senator Schumer could kind of try to get around Tuberville. He could try to fire cloture, which is what it's called for folks. It would take a long time.

Each nomination would take days. And it would further—could further politicize the military in these nominations. I will say folks are looking at Mitch McConnell to kind of push him to Tuberville to do something different. McConnell doesn't seem to agree with him holding these up. He's obviously would step out and say something against Tuberville if necessary. But he doesn't usually, unless it's absolutely necessary, strong arm his colleagues, the folks in his in his conference, unless he feels like it's necessary. So it's unlikely we're going to see how this actually

ends anytime soon. And Senator McConnell has said explicitly he disagrees with what Senator Tuberville is doing in this case, holding up all these military promotions, but that one senator does have the power to do it in our system. So, Susan Page, part of the irony and the richness is something Eugene just referred to, which is that in the comments we heard where Tommy Tuberville feels like the military is getting too woke and that this white nationalist thing that he's talking about, he believes it's hurting our military readiness while he has spent the last several weeks hurting our military readiness by not getting these promotions through. And now the system is so backed up that it would take weeks and weeks and weeks to get these more than 100 promotions done and get people in positions where they need to be in the military. You know, and this is no small matter. I think about 250 military promotions are now blocked. This could involve new members, new nominated members for the joint chiefs. It's affecting these military families. It makes it harder for them to get the assistance

they need to move to a new location for a new assignment. So there are real repercussions from his actions. You know, the repercussions from his actions, which, by the way, President Biden yesterday called bizarre, may be in a way more serious than the repercussions from his words that so many people find offensive. All right. Thank you, Susan, for that. So coming up, what Democratic voters are saying about President Biden's age. We show parts of a focus group where they ask specifically, is he too old to be president? Because you hear from Washington Democrats, real concerns, coming up a focus group that talks to voters. Also ahead, an update on the next possible indictment coming for Donald Trump

as two grand juries are now seated in Georgia. We'll show you what the judge had to say to the jurors. Maureen Jo, we'll be right back. Live look at Reagan National Airport in Washington, D.C. It looks like the sun's going to be out today, which is nice. Parts of the country, especially the Northeast, underwater with severe flooding this morning. We'll have more on that ahead. Right now, we want to play for you part of a focus group recently taken from political analyst Mark Halperin's Wide World of News, in which he spoke with eight Democratic voters from across

the country about the questions surrounding President Biden's age leading up to the 2024 presidential election. Take a look. If you're concerned that if he shows signs of aging between now and next November, that the Republicans could effectively use that to beat him in the presidential campaign. Raise your hand if you're concerned about that. Yeah, that's it. Okay hand if you're concerned about that. Yeah, that's it. OK, so everybody's concerned about that. How do you feel about President Biden running for another four year term? I have sort of mixed feelings about it.

I think he's really done a lot. My goal is that that Trump is not president. I think he's actually done an incredible job. The age thing is not going to go away. I will certainly support him if he's the nominee, but I would prefer that there be somebody else. I don't have a problem with his age. The good thing about him, he has age, but he has lots of experience. I, too, will vote for him, you know, when he's, you know, the one that's probably going to be there. But I

do have, I just kind of worry. I think he's very strong. I think he's had a great career, a political career, and he's gone both sides of the aisle and he's been able to communicate with, you know, he doesn't ostracize. I like that about him so much. But my only thing is with the age issue, it's concerning. But I mean, the other option scares me. So this is I can deal with the age thing if it's this or Trump. I want to ask you one more question about about what we started with. This is a question of the president's mental capacity. Raise your hand if you think his capacity are somewhat or significantly lessened since he took office. Raise your hand if you've seen a decline of some sort since he took office.

Raise your hand. All right. Only two of you see any decline whatsoever. Just to be clear, the rest of you think he's exactly the same as when he took office? For the most part. I mean, he mean, he's got the pressure on him now. Yeah. You know, Mike Barnicle, what what was unanimous here was every one of these Democrats said they were going to vote for Joe Biden. If Joe Biden was there, they also you can tell there's respect and admiration from all the Democrats for what he's done. Some concern about age. And that does track with with what what we hear from people in Washington, D.C. But again, though, no, no alternatives to Joe Biden. I mean, right now they seem to be sticking with him. You know, that focus group tracks exactly with what you hear from ordinary people when you're grocery shopping, getting gas in your

car. Exactly, exactly along those lines. People are concerned about his age. He's 81 years of age. He's president of the United States. It's maybe the most difficult job in the world. Today, he's overseas, and he's the head of, really, the legitimate head of NATO, having brought that group together. He gets on a plane. He flies back to Washington, D.C. for another series of dreadful days that begin at 8 a.m. in the morning, if he's lucky, and end at 8 p.m. at night, if he's lucky. He gets overnight intelligence reports that would scare the hell out of any normal human being. All of that at 81. What I think the plan is for the president and his campaign is to more or less own his age, own the fact that he's 81, own the fact

that he, you know, he doesn't run as fast as he used to. He doesn't look as agile as he used to because of his age. He has a troubled foot that makes his walk look a little more lame than he is actually in. It makes it look worse than it is. But at the end of the day, given his age, given his vast experience in government, given his knowledge of the presidency, given the record that he has achieved, which arguably is better than Barack Obama's first term. I think that's what he has to campaign on. Own your age. Say things like, you know, hey, when Washington crossed the Delaware, I was there to help pull those boats in. That's how old I am. He's got to really own his age and he can do it. And if he ends up doing it properly from his birth in Scranton, Pennsylvania, telling his life story in a shorter version, a briefer version than he's usually used to telling it, he can then say, I am you. I am the American citizen that you are. I have I have owned homes that I

couldn't afford. I have maybe almost had cars repossessed. I put kids through school. I've carried the weight of an addicted child. I've lost some children. I've lost two children. I know the pain that you feel on a daily basis. I'm Joe Biden. Exactly. I can't agree more on that focus group really reflected like what a conversation we might have had with friends across a dinner table or you hear across the country. People who really care about him think he's doing a great job and he's going to be 82 when he's running. And it's interesting. You mentioned he has the foot problem. This is a man who grew up with a stutter. All those things.

If you're, I don't know, on one show on Fox News, you're going to focus on that. He fell off a bike or whatever it is and make it a huge issue. You talk to Democrats who have voted for him before and look at the alternative. Susan Page. The alternative is the same age, maybe one or two years younger. It's not like Donald Trump, if he wins the nomination, is some spring chicken, to say the least. And, you know, his presidency was full of executive time and golfing and resting and watching TV. While Joe Biden has been working his you know what off during this presidency and doing a pretty good job. So he's got the track record to match his age and to brag on it.

You know, he doesn't have any choice not to join, own his age, as Mike was saying. He cannot rewind the clock and become a younger guy. But he can do two things. One is he can deal with this with humor, with his comments like knowing George Washington. That is very disarming. And it shows that this isn't something that's getting under his skin. The other thing he has to do is what he's doing this week at NATO, which is to show himself as a vigorous leader who's on top of things, able to deliver, able to unite this alliance, come back home, able to deal with economic concerns that worry many Americans. So he needs to joke and he needs to do. And that is the only way forward in dealing with legitimate concerns

about his age. Mika, Eugene, as you talk to people inside the White House, what's their view of how to handle this for the next 18 months or so? The questions around his age, because as everyone here has said, Democrats, we all know very supportive of Joe Biden when he talked to them in private moments. Sometimes they go, oof, that press conference was a little tough or it was hard to watch him walking across the lawn, whatever it is. Again, Democrats who like Joe Biden. And when you ask them what the alternative might be, they go, well, he beat Donald Trump once and we think he can do it again. So they're going to ride with him. So how is the White House looking at this issue of age? Yeah, I mean, anybody you talk to in the

White House and on their kind of small campaign or at the DNC even, who's operating as most of the Biden campaign at this point, is that he's not getting younger. I think a couple of years ago when they first got in and Republicans were doing this, they were worried. They were scared that it was going to do something. They didn't want to talk about it. But what has happened over the last few months is that aides around him have said, you know what? Also, older aides have said, you know what? Forget it.

Just talk about how old you are. He started making jokes at the White House Correspondents' Dinner about his age. He started to do it at different events, just little barbs here and there. Because what it tells people is, like Susan said, it doesn't bother him. He's not trying to hide from me. It's obvious that he's older. But what he's tried to do is say, you know, I'm an elder statesman. I'm wise. I have experienced those kinds of things. And more importantly, the most important thing that he can do and has been doing and will be doing is saying Donald Trump is not only around the same age, I'm the only one that has beat him. And when you have a Democratic Party, both the voters and kind of like the elite of the

party here in Washington, D.C., who are terrified of what another four years for Donald Trump might mean, that is a powerful and has been a very powerful argument for him to make. It's why you didn't see any Democrats who probably would want to run in 2024 doing anything. The people like Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, the people that have an actual big biography that would be appetizing to voters. That has not happened because they are so terrified. And what Democrats are doing now and what the Biden campaign is doing now is also painting Ron DeSantis and the entire Republican Party and Trump continuing to point out how in Trump's image they are, because what that says is even if it's somebody else, you should still be scared of Trumpism. So they're doing a lot of work

just in case it's not Trump as well. All right, Eugene Daniels and Susan Page, thank you both so much. You know, it was a fascinating focus group. And I agree completely with Mike and the others that they own the age. Ronald Reagan, whether you're talking about Washington crossing the Delaware and Biden was there pulling in the ropes. Ronald Reagan famously said, I knew Thomas Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson was a friend of mine, got big laughs in the 84 debates, second debate after he did so terribly in the first debate. You know, again, there was a question about his age and he said he wasn't going to use his opponent's age and inexperience against him. And he he played to that. And it is disarming. It's the same thing Joe Biden needs to do. And with Reagan, they also

managed to schedule very carefully. Yeah, I think his staff needs to own his age. I'm just going to be honest. I don't think they do a good job helping out the president. And I'm not talking about it like I'm just saying if you are managing a president's schedule and you are managing a president getting on stage and getting off stage and doing getting on planes and getting off plane. And yes, he's 80. You need to be there for him and you need to make a pathway and you sure as hell better make sure he doesn't fall on a sandbag. And I blame the staff for that. I mean, these are the things that are going to hurt him. These are things that are going to be played on a loop. Okay. Let him do his job. Let him do his speeches. Let him work on policy. Let him do his connections in Congress. Unlike any president that we've seen, I don't know, since Clinton, but my God,

make sure, you know, your secret service, you're his staff that you were there and you're telling him what's next. And it's not because don't, don't take this as, oh, he can't even get from one place to another. When you're busy and you're on stage and we've been on stage, I've done speeches and I'm so nervous. I'm doing the speech. I'm trying to get it right. And when it's done, I don't know which way to go. And I'm looking for direction. So do a better job because you can't have these video images of the president tripping or the president like going the wrong way. It's not going to work in this presidency because his age is going to be a factor. His age is going to be a factor.

And it's your job to make sure he gets from one place to another. He can handle the presidency. You have to handle his schedule and where he goes. Well, and the schedule. It makes me mad. The scheduling is so important. You have with every president, you have different strengths, you have different weaknesses. If somebody were younger in the White House, they would manage his expectations to make sure that that he never looked too young or too inexperienced. Biden's getting getting up there. He is slowing down. As Mike said, a lot of people forget he he he had a I think he broke his foot or fractured his foot

during the transition. He hasn't really been the same. His walks looks a lot differently. They've got to manage a lot of things. And this is managing schedule. You know, again, that's the easy again. Again, Donald Trump, Donald Trump can't criticize Joe Biden if he's not putting in 12 hour days because Donald Trump sat with executive time and watched cable news for the great part of his presidency. There are also a couple of other presidents who told us personally, we're not going to say their names, that they like to get out of the Oval Office at six o'clock at night and go upstairs and hang out with their kids and watch TV. Or go to bed by nine. Or go to bed by

nine. So again, again, there's this is this is a management issue. And I've got to say, I think I've got to say this. It's it's we're past the top of the hour, seven o'clock Wednesday, July 12th. I want to keep this conversation going with former U.S. Senator, now an NBC News. I'd love to hear what Claire has to say. MSNBC political analyst Claire McCaskill and chief White House correspondent for The New York Times, Peter Baker. Claire, we'll go to you first. And if you would like to trash the all-star game for being boring and for the American League wearing jiffy lube uniforms, you can. But first, I want to talk about Joe Biden for a second. I think it's so fascinating. Yes. You know, in politics, style is substance. Sometimes a perception is reality. Sometimes I will say, though, you look at all the nonsense that right wingers are saying, Trumpists are saying right now.

The one thing that they're not talking about is how now Joe Biden has managed to get Sweden into NATO. I mean, hello. And NATO. Again, this is this is yet and I'll say it. This is yet another extraordinary foreign policy achievement by Joe Biden, his foreign policy team and our allies, which he's brought back together after Donald Trump spent four years trashing them publicly and privately. Yeah. And Joe Biden has united the West in a way that probably no other president could have because of the breadth and depth of his experience on stages in other countries. And listen, this is a binary choice in America.

And the majority of America not only supports Joe Biden, but most importantly, supports his policies. They don't want weapons of military war being taken into schools to slaughter their children. They don't want rape victims to be forced to have a baby by the government. They don't want these things. And so, and by the way, I i mean let's compare these two guys one is fat and out of shape and plays golf all day from a golf cart and the other is in pretty good physical shape i mean he you know and there's three years difference really we're going to use those three years as the deciding factor as to who should lead the most powerful country in the world? I mean, it's dumb. And I've never heard two indictments.

Yeah, right. Right. I mean, you know, an indicted criminal, right? So I've never once I'm waiting for a journalist to ask some of these Republicans, well, would you tell us if you think Rupert Murdoch should step down? And Rupert Murdoch should step down? Rupert Murdoch is older than Joe Biden, right? So is Warren Buffett. They're running big multinational corporations that are revered by the business world and, frankly, by most Republicans. Nobody ever talks about their age. So, you know, I get it. I get it.

And I do understand why people worry about it. But I think Joe Biden is in a commanding position right now, especially if inflation keeps going down, especially if we can manage the interest rates going into next year and the economy. I think he'll beat whoever they bring. And I think they're going to bring a crook.