Morning Joe - Morning Joe 7/14/22

Episode Date: July 14, 2022

Trump tried to call a White House support staff member who was in talks with the Jan. 6 panel, source says

It is so unprecedented. And I've been a part of many congressional investigations that have been contemporaneous with Justice Department investigations. But it is unprecedented for Congress to be so far out ahead of the Justice Department in a complex investigation. They've got potent tools to get information. They can enforce their own subpoenas in a way we can't. We have to go hat in hand to them to enforce our subpoenas or to enforce a criminal contempt. And the idea that a year and a half after these events, they would not have talked to these witnesses, that even the Fulton County District Attorney is way ahead of them is, I think, cause for great concern. Congressman Adam Schiff on the slow pace of the Justice Department's investigation into high-level figures connected to the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Now there is more for the DOJ to consider after the January 6th committee reports a possible case of witness tampering by Donald Trump. This morning, we are learning more about the person the committee says the former president tried to contact. Plus, new concern this morning that the U.S. could be headed toward a recession after another dismal report on inflation. We're going

to discuss the pressure this puts on the Fed to help get things under control and how they do that. And President Biden on the move in the Middle East this morning, he began a meeting with the prime minister of Israel just a few moments ago. We're following that. A news conference is set to begin in about an hour. We'll be monitoring, of course, all of this happening ahead of tomorrow's unprecedented direct flight to Saudi Arabia. Good morning. A lot to cover this morning. Welcome to Morning Joe. It is Thursday, July 14th. Joe is off. Later this hour, we'll speak with Capitol Police Sergeant Aquilino Ganel, who was forced to retire

because of the injuries he sustained by the pro-Trump mob on January 6th. He has testified before the committee and on Tuesday embraced one of the rioters and accepted his apology. Ahead this morning, former Oathkeeper spokesman Jason Van Tattenehove, who testified before the committee on Tuesday, will also be our guest. He broke from the group in 2017 and is now speaking out about why. Willie? A lot to get to this morning. Let's begin with the latest on the January 6th investigation

and that new revelation from the committee that former President Donald Trump tried to make contact with a witness. A source telling NBC News the person is a member of the White House support staff. Committee Vice Chair Liz Cheney said Trump called the witness sometime after the bombshell June 28th testimony of former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson. Cheney said the person declined the call and told their attorney about it. The lawyer then alerted the committee, which in turn alerted the Justice Department. Sources tell CNN the person was concerned because he or she is not someone who routinely communicated with former President Trump. When asked to respond, Trump's spokesperson pointed to a tweet that criticizes Congresswoman Cheney, but doesn't answer the question.

Joining us now, NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Ali Vitale and White House bureau chief at Politico and the host of Way Too Early, Jonathan Lemire. Guys, good morning. Allie, so a White House support staff, as we all know, having covered these for some time, is a pretty broad term. Do we have any sense of who this person might be, how much access they had to what was going on around January 6th? No, Willie, it is a broad term and our source was willing to go there with us. But the larger concern from the committee is the security piece of this and it's not the first time that we've heard that either You'll remember part of the reason why they popped up that emergency hearing around Cassidy Hutchinson Was in part because of concerns that they had over her safety now again

This is a witness who we have not yet heard from publicly, that they are now trying to make a point of showing that it's part of a pattern of outreach from, in this case, the former president, allegedly, but other members of his orbit. They have said and been public about the fact that other members of Trump's orbit have been in contact with other witnesses, specifically in the case of Cassidy Hutchinson. That's just one example that the committee has shared publicly. And so this marks a pattern. But what we do know is that now that category, although it is broad, is a little bit less broad and allows us to be more focused and targeted in how we're thinking about who this witness could be and why the former president

might want to be in touch with them, especially because pieces of Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony brought us inside the room at the White House, not just in key meetings with officials, but the aftermath of emotional outbursts from the former president, things that he was doing like throwing plates at the wall. So we are in the room because of the committee's ability to get people to cooperate. This could be an example of the way that the committee is in the room in a way that we don't yet know of publicly, but that they are planning to tease out, especially because this next hearing is going to be about those key 187 minutes that the Capitol was under attack. And they want to

heavily juxtapose the violence and the chaos that we all experienced through our television screens. Many of our colleagues and these very lawmakers experienced themselves. What they want to do is juxtapose all of that imagery and experience and violence with the lack of activity and urgency to stop it within the Trump White House. So it would make sense that it was someone who was close to the president in that way, potentially, who could lend credibility to people like Cassidy Hutchinson and others who were in those corridors of the White House and

can lend a little bit of insight into what was happening there that day. And that hearing Ali is describing takes place one week from tonight in primetime, which will be gripping to hear about those three hours, just over three hours. So, Jonathan Lemire, important detail in Ali's reporting here is that this is a person who declined the call from President Trump because he or she was not regularly in touch with him. This was not a buddy of Donald Trump's who were talking about their backswing or something. This clearly was somebody who Donald Trump had heard through the grapevine, through attorneys, through other witnesses, perhaps was going to testify and got a call brazenly, some might say stupidly, because

we had just heard days before that that Cassidy Hutchinson had gotten some pressure and others had gotten pressure. Liz Cheney and members of the committee made a point that witness tampering would not be tolerated. Donald Trump still picks up the phone. Yeah, the guy can't stop committing crimes, really. Yeah, just in the face of those warnings, apparently the former president picked up the phone. Anyway, we know that that is what he does. He's on the phone constantly calling allies, calling former aides, calling those close to him. But it is striking that this is someone who is not regularly on his call list. And if this person, he or she, a member of the support staff, does indeed have firsthand knowledge of what the president was up to on January 6th,

that's a pretty small pool of people. The White House was largely hollowed out by then. A lot of staff had departed. It was just two weeks before Joe Biden's inauguration. There had been a COVID outbreak not long before that. And some people just simply never came back. Either they left their jobs or were working remotely to finish out their two weeks. Some were still in quarantine or sick themselves. So this is a person, if he or she has firsthand knowledge, it's a pretty small list and it's going to be potentially very gripping testimony. We know through media reports, we know through conversations with Republican lawmakers that the former president spent much of January 6th in a private dining room.

It's just off the Oval Office of accessible basically only to him, where there is a he installed a bank of televisions and he would often go in between meetings throughout his time there, either to actually to eat or just to catch up on his favorite cable news shows. That's where he spent basically those entire three hours, his dereliction of duty. And we know he watched the proceedings at the Capitol and his rest of the nation was horrified by the violence that we all saw. He heartened by it, encouraged by it, cheering it on at times, rewinding to watching certain moments again and again. There's no question the committee has been building to this moment. Their finale all along was going to be what he was up to that day.

It is going to be a damning indictment of a president abandoning his duty. Yeah, 100 percent. And Jonathan Lemire, just one more point on the witness tampering. It seems just from the experience that Joe and I have had, Willie perhaps as well, with Donald Trump, it fits a pattern, you know, making a call, thinking you can try and talk someone into maybe, you know, trying to smooth something over. And I remember time and time again, the man being shocked that a phone call would not change the way we covered the story. He's extremely undisciplined and has this sort of sense of power of himself that he thinks he can push through whatever he wants done, even if it's not correct.

So it'll be very interesting to hear more about that phone call and who that witness is. Next Thursday's primetime hearing is the last one on the schedule, but the committee is not ruling out future hearings this summer. They're wide open to more. The chairman pointed out to that surprise June 28th hearing with Cassidy Hussington saying, quote, something could come up. Another member of the committee said additional hearings would, quote, depend on where the evidence takes us. So, Ali, I've heard that tons of evidence is still coming in and that they're pouring through it all. Is there a sense that the committee would have to, you know, have at some point a deadline to finish these hearings as we get into the fall and also as we get closer to the midterms?

Look, that's the question that I keep asking Chairman Thompson and other committee members, because that's what he told me when I said to him, is this the last hearing next Thursday in primetime? He said probably and that he hopes so, but that he's open to the possibility of more. It's the same thing that Congressman Jamie Raskin told me when I asked him that question. And it's because they've been operating on these two parallel tracks for the entire summer, actively laying out their public investigations findings while also actively finding more things to publicly report. This is the balancing act that the committee's been doing all summer, and they are trying to leave themselves open so that they can tell the fullest version of

this story while also sticking to the timeline that they laid out at the beginning of the summer. These public hearings, you guys will remember, we started the year thinking that we were going to see them in March or April, and then it became May or June. And now here we are sitting in July squarely in the middle of the committee's schedule. They have, though, also left open the possibility, and Chairman Thompson told me this after the last hearing, that when they release the final report that they continue to drive us to, they will probably do a hearing around that. So even if it's not a whole nother series of hearings, we will at least likely see one more hearing when they release their final report. Because again, this committee has really wanted

to control its own narrative and be the one to lay out what they have found. It makes sense then that they might want to do that around their final report. But again, I did ask the chairman, I said, at what point do you put down the pen? And none of them necessarily have a concise answer to that because information does keep flowing. Wow. NBC's Ali Vitale, thank you very much. Of course, we'll be watching this. We appreciate it. We have the latest now on soaring inflation as prices are rising at the fastest pace in 41 years. This as the Consumer Price Index shows Americans paid more last month for just about every necessity from gas prices to rent. NBC News correspondent Tom Costello has the details.

For anyone struggling with daily expenses, especially seniors on fixed incomes, the inflation report is not just an economic stat. It's very real. The highest inflation in 41 years. In Delray Beach, Florida, the cost of electricity to keep the AC on is crushing 66-year-old Veronica Boeleg. She just received last month's bill, but she's already a month behind. The total bill was $592.11 for two months.

$592. Veronica has a disability and is raising a granddaughter after her own son's untimely death. My social security is not getting any higher, but my bills are getting higher and higher. Too high. I didn't mean to do this. Veronica, among the tens of millions of Americans struggling with ballooning prices for just about everything. The cost of housing, shelter up five and a half percent in one year. Electricity up 13.5%. Natural gas up almost 40%.

Breakfast, lunch, and dinner is more expensive. Food up 10.5%. But this is where inflation is really biting. Gasoline in June cost nearly 60% more than a year ago. Oil up almost 100%. In Maryland, Alex Nielsen runs a landscaping business with 45 employees. He says this summer he's spending $3,000 more each week for fuel and oil. You've gone from $1,000 a week in fuel cost to $4,000? Yeah, the price of mix of oil bar and chainsaw oil,

50-50 mix for the weed whackers and the blowers have all gone up. The price of diesel, everything's gone up. Now forced to pass a fuel surcharge onto his customers. There is some good news. Gas prices have now dropped 38 cents in a month. The hope? Inflation may have peaked in June. There is no question that we still have work to do. The Fed is going to say, oh my goodness, we've got to stop this snowball from getting bigger and bigger and turning into an avalanche. NBC's Tom Costello reporting there. Let's bring in CNBC senior markets correspondent Dominic Chu. Dom, good morning.

There seems to be no area really of the economy that inflation has not touched. The White House pointing to gas prices ticking down for the last month or so. But as Tom just showed in his report, still 60 percent higher than they were last year. Oil almost 100 percent higher than it was last year. So what is the Fed's move here? So the Fed's move right now is to raise rates. And it's a certainty, Willie, that they will. It's going to happen at the meeting that they're going to have later on this month. The question now is by how much. The issue for the baseline scenario on inflation is that the Fed is going to continue to raise interest rates. And the consensus prior to yesterday, and I'll get to the reason why I mentioned yesterday, the consensus prior to yesterday was the Fed would raise interest rates by another three quarters of one percent or 75 basis points.

Well, yesterday, the markets repriced everything because of comments from Atlanta Fed President Rafael Bostic, who left open this idea, this this notion that the hundred basis point or one full percentage point rate hike was still an option on the table. At that point, when those comments came out, the interest rate futures markets rejiggered everything. And now there is a 50-50 chance in the markets right now, that's what's being handicapped, of either a 75 basis point or three quarters of a percentage point hike or a one full percentage point hike. And by the way, Willie Mika, that's important because the Fed has not hiked interest rates by a full percentage point since going all the way back to the early 1990s when it started to first use interest rate policy on that overnight interest rate policy as a real way of influencing money in the marketplace. So this would be hypothetically a very significant

step by the Fed if it again, if it were to hike rates by a full percentage point. But that's the reason why this is so important right now. But I will point out that many parts of the market are looking at inflation as possibly peaking. That narrative from the White House right now is key heading into this midterm season. And by the way, you cannot juxtapose all of this with any more clarity than what President Biden is doing right now in the Middle East, where many investors view this particular trip to Saudi Arabia specifically with the intention to try to lower gasoline and oil costs for many parts of the world, especially for Americans, guys. Yeah. And so, you know, Jonathan Lemire, when the president hops over to Saudi Arabia and he's there tomorrow, clearly this is he's going to have to at least display and show that he's putting some

pressure on the Saudis to help with this problem, because the fact of the matter is the Fed is the big solution to this problem. The Fed is the backstop to this. Nothing the White House has tried in these last few months has done anything to bring inflation down. Yeah. And the White House has pointed to the Fed as being the lead on inflation. But they also recognize that they know how it works. If prices are up, the president's going to take at least some of the blame. And we're seeing that in Biden's poor poll numbers right now. And it's important, the White House believes, for him to demonstrate to the American people that he's out there trying his best with whatever limited tools he has, one of which, of course, trying to push Saudi Arabia to get more oil in the market. And Don, let me ask you that. There's been some skepticism, though,

about how much Saudi Arabia is actually able or willing to do and what sort of impact it may still have. What is the sense from the experts that you talk to as to what sort of relief we may get if, let's say, in the weeks ahead, Saudi Arabia agrees to do more? So, I mean, Saudi Arabia does have some spare capacity as do its partner countries in OPEC and some others. Of course, the big variable for the last several months has been Russia, because Russia is one of the biggest producers out there and there are sanctions in place given the war in Ukraine. The supply side is going to be part of the discussion with regard to lowering oil prices. But remember, you know, John, if we look at oil prices, right,

futures contracts for U.S. benchmark oil were almost around one hundred and thirty dollars a barrel in just the last couple of months here. And they've now fallen all the way below one hundred. That's a big move lower. A lot of that is not necessarily supply related, right? It's not Saudi Arabia possibly pumping more or the U.S. even maybe pumping more. It is now the idea that there is an inflation narrative or story that is now maybe shifting a little bit more towards a recessionary narrative. And that's the demand side of things. If the economy really does start to slow down, not just here in America, but around the world as well, especially in places like Europe. Does that mean fuel demand will ultimately go lower as a result? If it does, oil prices have to come down.

Gasoline prices have to come down. And if that's going to be the case, maybe this fixes itself. The issue becomes how you kind of put it in terms of a view for the American public, because and traders are dealing with right now, trying to figure out if a recession, which would bring down prices, is ultimately better than trying to have maybe that modest level of inflation that people are trying to work towards target wise right now. And that's certainly what the Fed is thinking about right now, guys. 9.1 percent inflation, highest in more than 40 years. And now, Dom, you're talking about perhaps a one point hike in the interest rate, which would be the highest in 30 years.

CNBC's Dom Chu. Dom, thanks so much for breaking it down for us. Mika, we'll be coming back to the economy throughout the show. But right now, let's talk about President's President Biden's trip to the Middle East. Let's bring in its related, of course, columnist and associate editor for The Washington Post, David Ignatius. David, I'd like to start with the latest news out of the trip, which is President Biden's bilateral meeting with the prime minister of Israel. They talked about the Iranian threat. And the president made some pretty clear comments on Iran, making clear the deal should be back on and that there should not be a nuclear Iran

and even force would be necessary. What do you make of the president's trip to Israel and these comments on Iran? Mika, two basic points. I think Biden is trying to reestablish the fundamental importance of the U.S.-Israel relationship. He's been a strong supporter of Israel for decades. When he arrived, he said the relationship was bone deep in his words, and he meant it. He's arriving at Israel at a very interesting time of transition. Israel's between elections. The prime minister is meeting with Yair Lapid, is a transitional caretaker figure, but somebody Biden can talk easily with. Bibi Netanyahu, the former and perhaps future prime minister, waits in the wings.

That's a much more problematic relationship, Biden said once of Bibi. I may not agree with him about a damn thing, but I love him. Classic Biden comment. So Israel is in this transitional status, but as ever, a key ally. The U.S. and Israel have talked about the major defense projects. I think on Iran, the question is, what will the U.S. and Israel do if a deal can't be reached? Will they take action, military or other, to try to forestall the Iranian nuclear program? Those discussions, obviously, are the most secret that could take place between the two countries, but I'm sure they've come up. Yeah, here is the president.

He did an interview with an Israeli TV channel, and he talked about force only as a very last resort. But his comments on Iran were quite forceful. Take a listen. You, in the past, said you would do anything. And you say it again, that you will ensure Iran would not acquire nuclear weapons. Does that also mean, sir, that you would use force against Iran? Is that what that means? If need be? That was the last resort, yes. If you can, David, talk about what he's navigating here in terms of the relationship with Israel, who he's meeting with, and then the next trip, which in some circles is quite controversial. So Biden is trying to meet with the range of current and possible future

Israeli leaders to maintain this stability and continuity to the relationship. Biden believes in it. It's interesting that this is a rare trip to the Middle East, Mika, in which a strong effort by the U.S. on Palestinian peace issues simply isn't part of the trip. I mean, so often when presidents go, it's with a new Palestinian peace plan. It's part of a broader diplomacy. Not so here, but Biden is being very pragmatic. He knows there's not a chance for a breakthrough. I think the big news on this trip

is going to be the Saudi Arabia part of it. Biden is going in a classic exercise of what diplomats call rail politique. I looked it up in the dictionary, Mika, and the definition is it's a policy that's premised on power, raw power and the needs of power, as opposed to values and principles. And that's what the president's doing. He thinks American power requires a relationship with Saudi Arabia, especially during the Ukraine war, especially at a time when gas prices are so high. So he's going to do what's necessary to reestablish a reasonable relationship with Saudi Arabia. I don't think we'll get the news about oil and increased Saudi oil production until the very end of the trip. I think he wants,

Mohammed bin Salman, the Saudi crown prince, wants his handshake first before he says anything about oil. What I hear is that the Saudis are likely to agree to a gradual expansion of oil production. They have easily an extra million barrels a day that they could produce, but I don't think they'll increase that production immediately. One important thing is that they'll open the way for the United Arab Emirates to produce another 500,000 barrels a day, probably more quickly, which will immediately ease the market's sum. Oil prices are already coming down. I think the effect of this trip will be to accelerate that downward movement in oil prices. But this is a meeting between a

president who called Saudi Arabia and Mohammed bin Salman a pariah. And there he'll be in the kingdom shaking hands. It'll be a moment that Biden will have to take a deep, deep breath, swallow some of his pride and shake hands. Totally, totally agree that this will be something to watch for sure with all the different dynamics at play. At the top of the hour, there's going to be a news conference with President Biden and the Israeli prime minister. And David will be with us for that. David, thank you. More now on that new surveillance video obtained and released by a Texas newspaper and TV station showing the moments inside Robb Elementary School in Uvalde during the standoff with the gunman who still was shooting. Some of the grieving families are angry the video was not shown to them first

before it went public. NBC News correspondent Sam Brock has more. More fallout from that stunning video posted by the Austin American statesman, blindsided and devastated grieving families. I could be living that day all over again. And I'm sick of it. I'm tired of it. So tired. There's a video now out there in the world floating around on the Internet for the remainder of my days and my children's days of their sister's last moments. That video shows law enforcement trying to reach the classroom minutes after the massacre started, only to retreat under a barrage of bullets and not even attempt to approach the classroom again for more than 40

minutes that's when more shots ripped through the hallway ana rodriguez's daughter maite was killed she hasn't been able to bring herself to watch the video they failed our community they failed our kids ultimately a heavily armed border patrol team took down the gunmen, an excruciating hour and 14 minutes after police first arrived. When you hear that timeline, even though you haven't seen it, what do you make of that? They're cowards. I understand you're being shot at. Okay, back away. Regroup.

What's plan B? Furious, furious, furious we are. Also fueling the community's anger. That was the most chicken way to put this video out today. Is the statesman's decision to publish the video just days before the state was planning to release it to families and then the public. The paper writing, we have to bear witness to history and transparency and unrelenting reporting is a way to bring change. Who do you think you are to release footage like that of our children who can't even speak for

themselves but you want to go ahead and air their final moments to the entire world to the person that leaked it screw you now a city's anger turning into action I was in the rock school shoot shootout. People of all ages marching. So no one has to go through what I've gone through. I felt sad because most of my friends passed away. And questions only mounting. This memorial in the town center now almost bare once again. The crosses and flowers replaced by stuffed animals for the children no longer there to hold them. NBC's Sam Brock reporting there from Uvalde. You know, Mika, you can certainly understand the anguish and the pain and the outrage of those families having their children's final moments, or at least the hallway outside where they died, broadcast to the world.

But boy, you watch that again and you say, what am I looking at? There are kids whose lives could be saved. And you have police officers milling around the hallway for an hour, again, in a way that violates every protocol that's been established in the United States about active shooters in the last 25 years, really, since Columbine. And it reveals something that might be important in the overall gun debate, just about where cops stand against these weapons of war, that young people can just walk into a store and walk out with weapons and multiple weapons, buy two in the course of a month on their 18th birthday or whatever. So listen, the parents,

I mean, I remember in local news, there's so many different facets to these stories where you think, oh, it's good we're seeing the video, but you don't realize maybe the impact it has on the very people that are impacted personally, that have had personal losses there. to say the least. But the big story coming out of this is guns in America and senators and congressmen who are still against massive gun reform. And I mean anything. Put it all on the table. They need to listen to these parents. They need to look at that video. They need to see just how many mass shootings we have every day, every week across America. And, you know, like a lot of things during the Trump presidency, it's obvious how it ends. There's going to be more and more needs to be done, even if you don't like it. At this point, we have our children getting shot up in schools. We have our children getting massacred. It's not just one event. It's multiple. And there are more coming. And so for me, I just pull back to 20,000 feet as best I can and try and implore to leaders

who may not agree with, you know, most of what the Democrats have to offer on this issue. Americans want change. All Americans want their children to be safe and they don't want weapons of war being used by 18 year olds coming into their schools and shooting up their kids. We can agree on this. We can agree that this should never happen again. And we can also know the reality. It will until we do more. It will. and it has since that shooting in Uvalde and Mika we heard just two days ago from Senator John Cornyn of Texas. This is his home state of course. Rob elementary school shooting saying we're done. Nothing more on guns. We came to the table. I worked with Chris Murphy. It took several weeks and we are done. Nothing more on semi-automatic

weapons even raising the age which you have to purchase from 18 to 21. He says we are done. Nothing more on semi-automatic weapons, even raising the age, which you have to purchase from 18 to 21. He says we are done. New this morning, Politico reports former President Donald Trump has recently been holding a series of private dinners with some of his wealthiest and highest profile supporters to quietly discuss plans for the 2024 election. Discussions have included when and if he should make his expected comeback bid official. The dinners have taken place in recent weeks in both Houston and Nashville, with the latest happening last Friday in Las Vegas. That's where Politico reports billionaire, casino mogul and longtime Trump friend Phil Ruffin urged the former president to launch another run for the White House

and do it soon. The meals are hosted by Trump's leadership pack, Save America, and have included around 12 to 16 people per dinner. It's a big sign that he's looking at running again, which is the big question about how this would work a second time around. Joining us now, the co-founder of Axios, Mike Allen. Mike, he's also expected to return to Washington later this month for the first time since the end of his presidency. So that combined with this Politico report on the donor dinners, what do you make of it? Mika, it's obvious that he's planning to make a big move. And this is a scoop by Axios. Elena Treen coming up two weeks from now, July 26th,

for the first time since he took off from the White House lawn on Inauguration Day, skipping President Biden's inauguration. Donald Trump will be back in D.C. He's coming back. He's going to be the keynoter at a conference by a group, by some of his former administration officials, America First Policy Institute. And, Mika, why this matters is even among Trump supporters, Washington's very different than when he left. A lot of people who worked in his administration are still here and day by day are seeing those revelations from the House 1-6 committee. But back in the swamp for an event where his supporters will be

heralding him, Mika, it's invitation only, but it'll be live streamed and open to the press. Wow. Jonathan Lemire, you can take it to Mike. But I mean, most discussions around the issue of Trumpism, even during these January 6th hearings, and the certain section of Americans who are stalwart Trump supporters that won't even listen to these hearings. I mean, Donald Trump still has a following, and many would argue that we're not done with Trumpism at all, especially since so many Republicans in Washington are afraid to talk about him in a realistic manner. Yeah, Donald Trump still has a significant following.

Even if polls suggest his popularity among Republicans has declined Yeah, Donald Trump still has a significant following. Even if polls suggest his popularity among Republicans has declined slightly, he's still by far the loudest voice in the party. And we are hearing some Republican candidates eyeing 2024. A few of them might even be willing to take on Trump were he to run again. But I don't think that list is going to be lengthy and he would be the overwhelming favorite for the nomination. So Mike Allen, obviously great scoop by Axios that Trump's coming back to D.C., but he's been having these meetings elsewhere, talking to donors, talking to influential party members and allies about a potential 2024 run. He hasn't committed to it yet, but he's sure leaning that way. But give us the debate within the Republican Party as to when, if he were to do so, when he should announce.

Because there are a lot of Republicans who are very leery that if Trump jumps in ahead of the midterms, that could be an unwanted distraction for a party that seems pretty poised to do well in November. Oh, absolutely, Jonathan. If you're a Republican running for office, running for the House or Senate, you want him to wait until midterms. But there's no sign of that. The signs, in fact, all of our reporting shows Donald Trump is likely to announce sooner rather than later. And I can give you a rule of thumb, just as we've long said, the worse Donald Trump's legal problems are, the more likely he is to announce. I think the worse the revelations out of the January 6th committee, the more traction, the more viewership, the revelations from the January 6th committee get, the sooner he's likely to announce because he seems he sees it as cover. He sees it as a way to project himself.

But those people who are running and your question about the timing, if you're running for office and Donald Trump announces for president in 2024, in 2022, what are you going to be asked about any place you go? Republicans want to talk about inflation, but they'll be talking about Donald Trump if he's announced. Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting. I wonder if some of these folks are saying, could you hold off? I mean, it might be helpful. No question. Listen, Mike, some Republican lawmakers are taking a renewed interest in paid family leave.

Where does this come from? Does it have anything to do with the Roe decision? A massive change, Mika, and you're exactly right that it is the post-Roe dynamics that are causing this. And Republicans want to be seen as pro-family, and they know that they're being accused of caring about babies only before they're born, caring about mothers before birth. And so Axios has picked up on a number of Republican senators are telling Sophia Kai and Emily Peck that they want to look at paid family leave, which, of course, has long been a Democratic priority. So Senator John Thune, Senator Chuck Grassley, Senator Marco Rubio, big voices in these debates, all telling Axios that they're looking at this the way that they would probably do it. Meekin, of course, this brings back a priority of Ivanka Trump. But the way that that they would do it is rather than a direct payments.

An example would be Marco Rubio and the branding that he has shows what they're thinking about. He calls it his pro-family framework. That's very much a post-Roe reference. It would take the child care tax credit and also make it applicable to people before they're born. And Mika, a P.S. to this, Don't forget, paid family leave, one of the first elements to drop out of President Biden's build back better. OK, well, we'll be following that. And Mike, as you know, a lot of politicians watched the show, business leaders and also up and comers. And you are the co-author of the new book entitled Smart Brevity, The Power of Saying More with Less. I love this book because it has a lot of what I try to send along to people in Know Your Value, a message of

communicating effectively. Give me 10 seconds on smart. Give me some brevity on smart brevity. Yeah, this empowers any communicator, whether you're just graduating, whether you're an intern, whether you're a mogul. We show you the secret sauce of how to say more with less and be heard. All we have is noise coming at us. Right. And you need to punch through smart brevity shows. We've learned in 15 years of starting two media companies about how to be heard, whether you're writing something, whether you're giving a presentation, whether you're Zooming. I love it. Congratulations on the book, Smart Brevity.

Mike Allen, thank you so much. On June 28th, Sergeant Connell's team of doctors told him that permanent injuries he has suffered to his left shoulder and right foot now make it impossible for him to continue as a police officer. He must leave policing for good and figure out the rest of his life. An emotional moment during Tuesday's January 6th committee hearing when Congressman Jamie Raskin revealed the toll of the injuries inflicted upon U.S. Capitol Police Sergeant Angelino Ganel last year. After the hearing ended, witness Stephen Ayers, who took part in the Capitol attack, apologized to Ganel and his fellow officers who were in attendance that day. And Sergeant Ganel joins us now. We will note he's here in his own capacity and not speaking for the Capitol Police

Department. Sergeant Ganell, thank you so much for taking some time with us. Your piece in the New York Times was extraordinary and important because there has been so much whitewashing. It's entitled, I was betrayed by President Trump. So much whitewashing of what happened that day, people dismissing of how bad it really was. It was a regular tourist visit, all the things we've heard from apologists for Donald Trump. But you write in specific detail about what happened that day and the toll it took on you. And I think it's important, and I apologize, I know it's painful. I think it's important to recount your experience. You're a combat veteran from Iraq. You were on the front lines trying to hold a tactical line. And what was it like for you on January 6th? Good morning.

Thanks for having me. On January 6th, it was horrible. I mean, you have a lot of people still downplaying that horrific day. If it wasn't horrible for them, it was horrible for myself and many of my colleagues, especially at that entrance on the West Front where I spent almost five hours fighting with the mob on and off. For some people, that day came in and went. And for me, to this day, I'm still dealing with those ramifications. You know, you try to adapt to your new normal,

but it's hard. You know, when you have multiple number of officers, rioters attacking, taking turns turns and beating you up. And then you have a lot of the people who we protected on that day down playing what happened. Sometimes I run into them in the hallway and then they pretend that not to see me uh they have they avoid me or both to the right or to the left or pretend to be doing something else i'm not going to be confrontational if you ask me uh in a year and a half since i was injured and that they know

my injuries only uh adam kinsinger and liz Cheney have approached me from the other side. I don't hold any grudges. I'm still going to be respectful to them, but they don't want to talk to me. I still want to do my job like I did on January 6th. For me to, in order for me to do my job, I don't need to express my opinion. I mean, if they want any more confirmation on that, they could take a look at my injuries as a proof that I could do my job and protect them without any political opinion expressed on my own. So, Sergeant Gunnell, are you saying that only Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney among Republicans have spoken to you, have checked in on you, see how you're doing, to apologize maybe even for what happened that day? They're the only two Republicans?

That is correct, sir. It's just disgraceful cowardice. I'm so sorry about that. And that's coming from all the people who are protected, whether elected officials or not. You know, it's disheartening. I'm not I'm not saying that I need that from them. But that that shows a lot from from the people who claim that they support the police and back the blue and are pro-law and order. And, you know, it's a fast case to me, the way that they treat us. I mean, if you look at the bill yesterday for helping the veterans. Eighty-eight of them voted against that particular bill helping the veterans. I'm a veteran, too.

But then they go out publicly and say, well, thank you for your service and this and this and that. And it's not true. So I don't know why people keep believing that they are for something. It's pathetic. These are the same people who talk about law and order. And as you say, we'll have a back the blue sticker on their car, but they won't back you at this pivotal moment in American history.

So what has it been like for you, Sergeant Connell, to sit in those hearings? You know what happened that day. You lived through it. But what you didn't know was the inaction that was taking place down the street at the Oval Office at the White House. President Trump not only driving people to the Capitol that day, we're told in testimony he wanted the magnetometers dropped so that mob could be armed as it approached the Capitol. We've been told by Liz Cheney that the president made no effort to call on the National Guard, the military, the attorney general as he watched it unfold from his dining room. What has it been like for you to sit in that room and hear about what was happening while you were trying to defend the Capitol and in your words, being savagely beaten? To be honest, it's been hard learning firsthand of all the information and hearing it from people who were advising him,

people who he selected to work around him, or as he called the best people in the White House. You know, these are people who were advising him otherwise not to do certain things or do certain things to help us. I know on January 6th, based on the evidence that the committee presented when he tweeted about Mike Pence, that's when the fiercest fighting began at the West Front where I was. That's when Mike Fanon got dragged into the crowd. Myself got hurt on my shoulder and my arm and my feet. urgency and the disregard that he had to protect the capital, protect the national security of this country.

You had the next three people in line to the succession of the presidency, the vice president, the speaker of the house and the Senate pro temp,, he had the nuclear football inside the building when the attack was happening. He didn't lift a finger to even try to influence those people, knowing that he had influence over the mob, as Mr. Iyer stated two days ago. I mean, it's and this is the same person that they want to put back in into the presidency, knowing full well that he has been emboldened since the impeachment. And if he gets away with getting back into politics and into the Oval Office, it's probably going to be a lot worse, not only for our democracy, but a lot of other things as well. Sergeant, you immigrated to this country from the Dominican Republic, as you write

in your piece, and that was a big win for our country, I must say. You served the country in the United States Army, you fought in Iraq, then you joined the Capitol Police Force where you've served for many years and then as Congressman Raskin described in that hearing two days ago, you sat down with your doctor who told you your injuries are too grave, the injuries you suffered on January 6th, for you to continue your work as a police officer. What was that moment like with your doctor? Very emotional.

Not just on one time, but two times. You know, I have been working for the Capitol Police for 16 years. I expected to be there for another eight before my mandatory retirement. I took a test for the lieutenant test last year, a promotion to lieutenant, now I had to plan my life outside police work. You know, I'll be detailing a lot of all those things, my journey from coming to the United States, my service in the upcoming book that I'm writing. As of right now, I have it titled American Treason. Hopefully people will read it because I will be telling a lot of things that happened on January 6th and onward. You know, January 6th for me hasn't been easy. And I'm still dealing with court cases, investigations, and also having to learn how to live with

my new disabilities, not only for myself, but for my family as well. So we are talking right now with former U.S. Capitol Police Sergeant Ecolino Gunnell. I'm still at the, I'm sorry, I'm still at the, it just takes time for the process to go through. Good. Okay. Thank you for that. And as our conversation continues, I just want to tell our viewers we are three minutes past the top of the hour and we're awaiting a joint news conference with President Biden and the prime minister of Israel. Any moment now we'll be going to that when that happens. A lot happening in the Middle East with the president's very big visit. They are controversial to some and we'll be covering that as well. But continuing our conversation, Sergeant, I'm kind of stuck on the on the fact that you revealed at the very top of the interview when Willie asked you, you know, who has talked to you? Republicans from Republicans in Congress and the Senate. And you had two names. And I guess what would you want to say to them if they wanted to

listen to you? I don't know. They're the ones who had to live with themselves. I hear some people defending the political prisoners, making to to me, that tells me that they consider me the bad guy of the whole story. And it's not only me who feels that way. I think there's a lot of disheartening by the way they are going about fighting for the people who attacked the police officers at the Capitol,

continually, continually defending the whole chaos, the insurrection, whatever they want to call it. It was bad, not only for myself, but for the other officers, for the country, for our democracy. But yeah, those are the people that they are defending, the people who attacked the police officers in full uniform who were defending the Capitol on that day. AMY GOODMAN- I think what's so frustrating about this is that this is so obvious. This is so obvious what you were doing and what they were doing. And I don't know why you can't get an apology or a thank you for your service from Republicans.

And it's why I ask this question every day. Who are these people? Mika, to be honest, I'm not looking for an apology. Just hold people accountable. That's what I want. Again, what I had done in the past, I fulfilled my oath, both overseas and here in the United States, especially on January 6th, for the past 16 years. They all took the same oath. And again, I'm not looking for an apology. What I find disfranchising and demoralizing

is that we defended the Capitol. Capitol Police defended the Capitol, along with Metropolitan Police and subsequently the other law enforcement agencies that show up afterwards, including the National Guard. Those are the people who they should be fighting for, not the people who attack the police officers. Those people who attack us, they made the decision to attack the police officer fully well, knowing that we were doing our duty, knowing that we were keeping our responsibility to defend

the Capitol. It's unheard of that they're defending those people instead of the police officer who did and protect them. Because on January 6th, they were scared. The members and everybody inside the Capitol were scared. I was scared, to be honest. But guess what? I did my job.

I risked my life. I put myself on the line to give them a chance to get to safety and continue doing their duty as elected officials. And I feel abandoned regarding that. They are disregarding our sacrifices, especially like Billy Evans, Jeff Smith, and all the other officers who perished on that day, because we believe that they will do the right thing in the aftermath. And they haven't. And to put a frame around what you're saying, you're not looking for an apology. You're looking for accountability.

And I understand that. And Willie Geist, it's, I guess for me, the feeling of abandonment that this man is experiencing is just there's such a lack of humanity at play here among Trump's followers, and I include top-ranking Republicans who won't speak out or reach out to someone like Sergeant Gannell and thank him for his service and validate what happened. I mean, this is not human. This is this is a lack of humanity that I'm shocked by. I really am. And Sergeant Aquilino said it so well. They are the ones who will have to look themselves in the mirror. They are the ones who have to figure out how to sleep at night,

living with the fact that they were abject cowards and can't even reach out to tell him how grateful they are that he helped to save their lives, perhaps. Sergeant, I wanted to ask you about a moment two days ago in that hearing room after Stephen Ayers, a man who attacked the Capitol, who was one of the people who rushed in there past you and committed violence that day, approached you and your colleagues to offer apologies, mixed reactions. Some of the officers wanted none of it. They didn't accept the apology. Some of them, I think, were probably actively angry with him and maybe didn't want to even shake his hand. But you did accept that apology. Why? To be honest, it caught me off guard, but like I said to other news agencies, I'm not a vindictive person.

I might be upset at you for a moment, and that's it. I let it go. I could live with myself with the actions that I took on January 6th. I know what I did was right. The first person he should have had apologize in that room, even when he was doing his testimony when he began, it should have been to Erin Smith, who was right next to me. She lost her husband because of what happened on January 6. Mike Fanone, he passed him and he almost got killed on that day. I almost got killed several times and he passed everybody else. I'm not saying that Don doesn't deserve it. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that the first person who he should have had apologized in that room. It should have been Aaron Smith. I don't know whether he did that as for a photo op or for seeking leniency against the judge.

I did notice the his attorney kind of like telling to look one way or the other. That's up to him and his maker. I know I could live with myself with those decisions that I did. At the end of the day, he had to answer to the judges and his criminal cases and to his maker when everything is said and done. Well said, Sergeant Aquilino Ganel. Thank you so much for your service to the country. Thank you for what you did that day. I'm so sorry that it's caused you so much pain and cost you your job in law enforcement, but you've done nothing but serve this country since the day you got here. And just know that the vast majority of us are so very grateful, even if a few cowards won't say the same to you.

Thank you, Sergeant, for being here today. We appreciate it.