Morning Joe - Morning Joe 7/24/23

Episode Date: July 24, 2023

Trump shares QAnon post in social media tirade

Is it something that concerns you of, you know, of the people making sure that they don't go out of their right mind if something like that happens? Because I know what I'm thinking of could happen if that, for example, they do say Jack Smith says, OK, I'm going to put Donald Trump in jail. I think it's a very dangerous thing to even talk about because we do have a tremendously passionate group of voters. And I mean, maybe, you know, maybe 100, 150. I've never seen anything like it. Much more passion than they had in 2020 and much more passion than they had in 2016. I think it would be very dangerous. Yeah, there's been no deterrence put in place. Well, that's not entirely accurate. There have been some deterrence that have been put in place.

But I mean, just look at like you just said, Donald Trump's last words about it's dangerous to go down this route. So, yeah, it could happen again because you have a group of individuals like you have an audience for him and for what happened on January 6th. So, yeah, I believe it can happen again. That's Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn, who defended the Capitol during the January 6th insurrection, reacting to Donald Trump's veiled threat about another January 6th style attack. The former president spent yesterday rage posting on social media amid new reporting on how his legal troubles are draining resources from his 2024 presidential campaign. We're going to dig into all of that. Meanwhile, it was a rough weekend of headlines for Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. Not only did he seem to downplay the severity of

that attack on the Capitol, he's taking a lot of criticism for his state's new teaching guidelines on black history. Also ahead, more looming labor strikes could have a tremendous impact on the United States economy, putting the famously pro-union President Joe Biden in a tough spot as he heads into his own re-election bid. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Monday, July 24th. I'm Jonathan Lemire. The rest of the gang has the morning off. But fear not, we've got a great group here in Washington with me. We have Washington Bureau Chief for USA Today, Susan Page is here. White House correspondent for Politico and co-author of the playbook, Eugene Daniels. Congressional investigations reporter for The Washington Post, Jackie Alamey, as well as White House editor for Politico, Sam Stein.

Great to see you all on this Monday morning. Thanks for being here. But we start with the greatest question of the weekend, maybe of our age. Barbie or Oppenheimer? Barbie or Oppenheimer. Who saw what this weekend? You know I saw Barbie. I saw Barbie. Great movie. Fun. Lots of fun. I have kids. There was a bunch of adults that were in there, which was kind of fun. Laugh out loud. Easter

is hilarious. She's the president. So you know there's the political angle for us there. Hilarious movie. I couldn't go to Oppenheimer. I can't spend three and a half hours watching a movie about a bomb. I just don't have the patience for it. So I didn't see Barbie, but I certainly saw people who were seeing Barbie. There were people who were dressed in pink or Barbie outfits throughout the streets all weekend long. It did blockbusters, almost record-setting numbers. Anybody else? Jackie, did you get to anything? I feel like I've failed on my patriotic duties in Cajun either.

I tried to get tickets, but everything in D.C. has been sold out. I did not plan ahead. There you go. We can see the worldwide box office numbers here. $337 million for Barbie, $174 million for Oppenheimer. I will say I did see Oppenheimer at a 10 a.m. show on a Friday. It was completely sold out. It is three hours. It's 10 a.m. on a Friday.

I was wondering where you were. It was one of those theaters that served beer and food. But it was, it lived up to the hype. Cillian Murphy is spectacular, like truly spectacular. The cast was great. It was, it's probably Christopher Nolan's best film, and he's had quite a few. He's had a few, yeah.

He's had quite a few. What does it say that you chose Oppenheimer and you chose Barbican? I would have chosen Barbie, by the way. Exactly, if you know us. Yeah, Vegas didn't even let you bet on that. No. Off the board, that's how that was going to break down. We're going to have more on a blockbuster weekend that may have saved the summer movie season after some disappointments.

We'll get to that a little later in the show. But now let's dive into the news. And a date has been set for the first federal trial of a former president of the United States of America. On Friday, Judge Aileen Cannon announced that Donald Trump will be due in court on May 20th, 2024, to face 37 counts related to his alleged mishandling of classified documents. Now, you'll recall the Justice Department had asked for the trial to be held in early December of this year, while Trump's team requested that it be postponed until after the entirety of the 2024 election. So here, Judge Cannon appears to split the difference, writing in part this. The court rejects defendants' request to withhold

setting a schedule now. Nevertheless, the government's proposed schedule is atypically accelerated and inconsistent with ensuring a fair trial. And news on the documents case comes as Trump awaits other possible charges for his alleged efforts to interfere in the 2020 election results. In a series of posts on Truth Social last night, the former president railed against prosecutors as well as President Joe Biden for what he falsely claims is election interference for the 2024 race. One message read in part this, do they understand the damage being done to America? It will only get worse. We must stop these monsters from further destroying our country. Trump also shared this ominous post, which read, nothing can stop what is coming. Nothing. If there was any doubt about the meaning behind that message, the user who initially posted it later re-truthed himself, this time with a QAnon slogan as a hashtag directed at the so-called leader of the far right group.

And of course, some of this language, as we heard also in that radio interview at the very top, Sam, comes, just invokes a lot of the ominous warnings of surrounded January 6th. We know what happened that day. Doesn't seem like Donald Trump's being particularly subtle here. No, it's, I mean, it's the same notes over and over again. Same stuff that we heard prior to January 6th. Really ominous. Enough of it is vague that he can get away by saying he never actually incited what's to come. But the trial date combined with the very likely fact that he will be the nominee

means that sometime in the spring of 2024, we're going to have a tinderbox of a political situation, which is Trump's just coming out of the primary, victorious. This trial begins, maybe one of several trials on the horizon. And this type of messaging is only going to be amplified, right, because he's going to say this is why you're doing this in the context of the election. You're trying to diminish my standing. This is the only thing you have going for you, and then we'll see where that goes. And, you know, look, I don't know what you're hearing on the Hill or what you're hearing from the Justice Department, but I have to imagine that they read these things. They see these things.

I mean, how do you respond internally? How do you respond to that if you are sitting there near Merrick Garland or anyone else who's involved in these types of prosecutions? Well, The New York Times had a really interesting dive over the weekend about the budget that Jack Smith has said. It's around $25 million a year funneled just to Trump prosecutions. And amongst that pool of money, $1.9 million, I believe it is, is going to security for Mayor Garland and Secret Service detail because of the level of threats. It's clear that the former president hasn't changed his behavior in terms of riling up his supporters in ways that can ultimately end in, as we all saw, really dangerous situations. But on the other side of the coin here, the Trump campaign is

really in an unprecedented situation right now. I mean, has there ever been a presidential candidate that is simultaneously toggling multiple criminal investigations? It's a rhetorical question. You know, campaigning to be the president of the United States and and raising records amount of money that are in the same vein going to his legal bills. So it's it's really an unusual situation. And we should we should note, Susan, that Trump, of course, last week said he received a target letter as part of the January 6th election interference investigation. There is some thought that the indictment could come as early as at some point this week. So that's going to be another moment where we already know, put this May, I want you to talk about the trial date set there

in May. It is, to Sam's point, probably coming out of the primaries at this moment. He's the front runner in the polls. He'll be the Republican nominee. It's in that window between the primaries and the conventions and between when the general election really ramps up. And we may have the Republican standard bearer flying from courtroom to courtroom because there's a New York trial date set, too. We've never been here before. You know, there are the legal issues. First former president to face this kind of legal peril. There's the political issues. It seems to be so far helpful to him, not harmful to him, at least in getting the nomination. There's just the logistical issues, too. There are multiple trials that are going to be going on. Some of them will require his attendance.

The judges are going to have to coordinate so that they don't have more than one trial date at the same time requiring his presence, not to mention the primaries in the campaign. I mean, to say that we've never been here before is to understate kind of the enormity. And I mean, there's almost a comic aspect when you look at the calendar for next year. Yeah, I mean, when you look at May for the Republican Party, this is kind of the worst case scenario, right? You have him having to go to court. Independents aren't going to like that.

There are Republicans who aren't going to like that, to see all of that information coming out, to see him flying around the country, going to these different venues, talking to judges, maybe pleading the fifth, because it's hard to see how his lawyers allow him or want him to talk in these moments. And that is going to be too late to change anything. That man, if he is a nominee at that point, he will be the nominee in November. And it is hard to see how the Republicans get out of this one. I think, you know, I talked to some folks over this weekend. They said, well, you know, we could—you know, if things go really bad, we could try to flip it and try to get a new person, like they tried to do for—they had an idea of in 2016 after the Access Hollywood tapes came out. But that is not going to work. I don't understand. I don't see, especially as he's these veiled threats, barely veiled threats are working out. And if the

Republican Party actually has the gall to do this. But there's no sign the Republicans want to. Exactly. Right. Exactly. I mean, one one reason that this is strengthen this position in the party, not not weakened is because this is the direction that this Trump defined Republican Party is heading and and not unhappily. Yeah, and it's very two different things. It may help him this year in the primaries. It could be very different in the general election. Certainly, the White House and the Biden re-election team is like,

OK, if this is going to happen, we're going to step back and let it play out. Don't get in the way if he's self-destructing. But let's talk a little bit about how some Republicans are handling it now in these primaries. As Florida governor and, of course, 2024 Republican presidential candidate Ron DeSantis appeared to downplay the January 6th Capitol attack in an interview he gave on Friday. Here's some of what he said on the Stay Free with Russell Brand podcast. It was not an insurrection. These are people that were there to attend a rally and then they were there to protest. Now it devolved and it devolved into a riot. But the idea that this was a plan to somehow overthrow the government of the United

States is not true. And it's something that the media had spun up just to try to basically, you know, get as much mileage out of it and use it for partisan and for political aims. Meanwhile, former Vice President Mike Pence, another 2024 White House hopeful, also weighed in on the January 6th attack over the weekend. Now, despite rioters calling for him to be hung that day, Pence still stops short of saying that Trump should be criminally charged. The president's words were reckless that day. I had no right to overturn the election. But while his words were reckless, based on what I know, I'm not yet convinced that they were criminal. I do think the Department of Justice has lost the confidence of the American people.

I mean, in one town hall after another across New Hampshire, I heard a deep concern for a perception about the unequal treatment of the law. And I think one more indictment against the former president will only contribute to that sense among the American people. And as I said, I'd rather that these issues and the judgment about his conduct on January 6th be left to the American people. And as I said, I'd rather that these issues and the judgment about his conduct on January 6th be left to the American people in the upcoming primaries. Sam, Sam, Sam, this is, in a nutshell, the conundrum the Republicans are in, where for some of them, particularly the Florida governor, the theory of the case of their

campaign is that Trump's going to implode and we'll be the next person just to pick up the pieces and embrace his followers. But yet they can't bring themselves to attack him because they'd risk losing the followers. And therefore, nothing happens except his lead grows. Right. And it's like this is sort of the fundamental question of the election, is like, did Trump lose? That's first and foremost. And if you can't bring yourself to say, yeah, Trump did lose in the 2020 election, then you really don't have a proactive case for why you should run, because he rightfully was taking the presidency he was taking away from him. Second thing is, did he act fundamentally in a bad way on January 6th?

And if you can't attack him for that, then there's really not much you're going to attack him for. No offense to the other issues that are out there, but I don't think you're going to go after Trump because he didn't build the full wall. I don't think people are going to care as much. But that is the fundamental question, is how he acted on January 6th. And DeSantis can't bring himself to make these attacks. It does suggest an inability to go for the jugular. I will say we crunched the polling data on this about how Republican primary voters feel about January 6th. And the predominant sentiment is that they just want to move on. I mean,

they don't necessarily think Trump was in the right. In fact, a lot of them think Trump was in the wrong. But overwhelmingly, they say it's in the past and we need to move on. And I think what Pence was getting at there is that sentiment. Even though he was the target of people who wanted him hanged, I think he wants to say, look, I'm not obsessing over this. Let's move on. We have to get on with it. I just don't think that's a winning issue in a primary, but it does reflect the will of the primary voters. Certainly. And it's also a direct effort of two years now of Trump and his allies trying to downplay what happened that day.

Not just downplay. Turn it into something that they could use as an advantage. I mean, Trump plays the victim in there, fundraisers off of this. He says he's being persecuted wrongfully over this. I mean, that is him trying to turn what should be objectively a weak spot for him into a political advantage. And January 6th shadows all of this, Jackie. And you've got some new reporting about a key figure who sort of disappeared off the

radar in recent months. And that's Mark Meadows, Trump's former chief of staff. He was chief of staff on January 6th. What have you learned about what he's been up to? It's been easy to forget about Mark Meadows. He's been conspicuously quiet. He hasn't tweeted in months. We have a bunch of reporting from over the weekend about sort of his behavior that has raised eyebrows from his allies and have them feverishly speculating about the forget that he was a key person in propping up Trump's efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

He was someone. We sort of go into this text message that he sent between him and Eric Hirschman, White House counsel at the time, joking about his son, Blake Meadows, who actually was, Meadows had dispatched to try to help him find the unsubstantiated claims of election fraud and said that even his own son had trouble scrounging up any evidence that what Trump was saying was true. Yet we continued to see Meadows publicly and in private with Trump fuel this argument and this conversation in a way that obviously ultimately ended up being fairly dangerous. You see, I think the most interesting part of this is that Jack Smith has been asking

people about these text messages in conversations in these grand jury testimonies. He's been asking witnesses, you know, did they privately express and believe that election fraud did not happen? You know, there was countless studies that the Trump campaign actually commissioned. They came back from outside groups, outside consulting groups that said they couldn't find any any such claims to back up what Trump was saying or evidence. And then and then publicly, why were they saying something else? But I have to say, you know, it's been really interesting to see these Republican candidates sort of recalibrating their answers to the January 6th question.

But I think a lot could change in the next two weeks once we see an indictment. Jack Smith is sitting on a ton, a mountain of evidence, far more than we learned during the January 6th committee, the congressional committee's report. And I think once that gets into public view and everyone pours over it, I think we could maybe see these answers. There's never been a party that has had the candidates not be able to go after the biggest vulnerability of another candidate. This is his biggest vulnerability, and they be able to go after the biggest vulnerability of another candidate. This is his biggest vulnerability, and they are unable to go after him because they know it hits them. His voters go against them, and it makes him stronger.

We saw him get more money in quarter two than he did in quarter one after he was federally indicted. These are things that all of these candidates in these campaigns have never, ever had to deal with in history. I wonder if the pivot here is if the Republicans can't attack Trump's conduct, but they start, especially after this next indictment comes down, if it is as damning as we're led to believe, if the argument then becomes they make it about his electability. Like, look, fair or not, he can't win because of all these things. But that's what I'm saying. They're doing that right now. It's not breaking through yet. They have to do sharper than they are now.

They're certainly not. But his legal acts, Trump's legal problems are shadowing this entire campaign. In fact, also the dividing lines between his campaign and his criminal defense are continuing to blur. The Washington Post reports that as charges against Trump mount, quote, fighting those prosecutions is increasingly dominating his time, resources, and messaging, making the centerpiece of his candidacy an appeal to stay out of prison. The Post continues, what is likely to come is a campaign like the country has never seen before. A candidate juggling multiple criminal

indictments while slashing the Department of Justice and his opponents, shuttling between early primary states for rallies and courtrooms for hearings, and spending his supporters' money on both millions of dollars worth of campaign ads and burgeoning legal bills. To illustrate the impact, more than half of the money Trump raised last quarter went to a PAC footing his legal bills. However, and unsurprisingly, Trump is not relying on any of his own personal fortune to cover that. According to the Federal Election Commission, of more than $35 million raised between March and June, the campaign received just under $18 million. The rest went to the Save America PAC, which has been spending millions

of dollars on lawyers representing Trump and allies in the multiple ongoing cases. According to the newspaper, as the legal and political efforts merge, the campaign is no longer enforcing traditional boundaries between the teams, with the understanding that aides involvement in discussions about the cases could lead them to face their own subpoenas or liability down the road. And Susan Page, I mean, first of all, there was not a glimmer of surprise at this table when we learned that Donald Trump is not paying and if using any of his fortune to pay for his legal bills. But this is this right here sums up the dilemma that he and the Republican Party ran. You know, you said that they're blurring the lines.

There is no line. Trump's political strategy is his legal strategy and his legal strategy is political strategy. The best thing that can happen legally to Donald Trump is for him to win another term in the White House. So it would put him in a very powerful position to do what he wishes in terms of federal prosecution. More complicated if he gets indicted by Georgia or the cases in New York. But it's all one. It's all one in the same. It's Trump, Inc. And that is this election that we are now hurtling into.

That was the theory. He jumped in this race so early, in part thinking that might prevent the charges from coming. That didn't work. But now he's running to win to try to stay out of prison. I think that's pretty clear. We'll have more on that as the morning goes on. But next on Morning Joe, there is major criticism over the controversial new guidelines for teaching black history in the state of Florida. We'll show you how Governor Ron DeSantis is responding. Plus, we'll go live to Jerusalem amid mass demonstrations against a controversial law that would really limit the power of Israel's Supreme Court.

Also ahead, say goodbye to the bird. We'll have a look at Elon Musk's overnight Twitter makeover. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back with all of that. The sun's come up here in Washington, D.C. Beautiful shot of the White House on this Monday morning just before 6.30 a.m. here on the East Coast. Let's get to some more headlines now. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis appears to be trying to distance himself from the recent changes that have been made to his state's public school curriculum. Now, last week, the Florida Board of Education approved new guidelines for teaching black history, which suggests that enslaved people reaped benefits from skills acquired during

centuries of forced labor. Reaped benefits. The move comes just months after DeSantis criticized an advanced placement course on African-American studies. The changes are now facing significant backlash. Vice President Kamala Harris visited Jacksonville on Friday and slammed the new curriculum, calling it extremist propaganda. This prompted DeSantis to defend his state while also denying any personal responsibility for the new education standards. Take a listen. Well, you should talk to them about it. I mean, I didn't do it and I wasn't involved in it, but I think what they're doing is I think that they're probably going to show some of the folks that eventually parlayed, you know, being a blacksmith into into doing things later later in life.

But the reality is all of that is rooted in whatever is factual. They listed everything out. And if you have any questions about it, just ask the Department of Education. You can talk about those folks. But I mean, these were scholars who put that together. It was not anything that was that was done politically. Sure. Some Republican presidential candidates are also speaking out against the Florida Board of Education's new guidelines. Former Congressman Will Hurd wrote on Twitter this. Unfortunately, it has to be said, slavery wasn't a jobs program that taught beneficial skills. It was literally dehumanizing and subjugated people as property because they

lacked any rights or freedoms. Here's what Chris Christie had to say, too. I didn't do it and I'm not involved in it are not the words of leadership. You know, look, Governor DeSantis started this fire with the bill that he signed, and now he doesn't want to take responsibility for whatever is done in the aftermath of it. And from listening and watching his comments, he's obviously uncomfortable. He only started to focus on this when he decided he wanted to run for president and try to get to the right of Donald Trump. And so I think people see this as politically manipulative. And I'm talking about, Margaret, we're dividing our country into smaller and smaller and smaller pieces. And politicians are pitting them against each other to create conflict. And that's not going to make the country bigger, better, stronger or freer.

So, Eugene, let's just start with how inaccurate and offensive some of this teaching is from the Florida new curriculum there, but also how Governor DeSantis and his anti-woke policies have put him in a box with speaking to a seemingly smaller and smaller portion of the electorate. This is what happens when you base your entire kind of political career on this. When you say that everybody needs to be anti-woke, this is where you end up. And when you talk to folks in Florida, the whole point of the bill that came through, this is in reaction to a bill that he wanted. It was making clear what he wanted to vote.

And it's because he felt, and a lot of people around this country are starting to feel, that we can't teach the correct history of this country because it makes white kids uncomfortable. That is at the base of this, right? That it is uncomfortable to hear that people that look like you put people that look like me in chains and made them do things and beat them and rape them. That is uncomfortable for kids to hear. That is what these folks are saying. But then when you use that as a political cudgel, you have to own it, right? At this point, this is on Ron DeSantis. He may not have created these policies with the school board, but at the end of the day, he made it very clear to what he wanted to the folks in that state. Yeah, no, completely agree. I think you have to put it in the context that

there's been an effort to sort of desanitize American history, specifically American colonial history. And this was done in that context. The actual curriculum, if you read it, it's just one line, right? It's just one line. It does use the word benefit. And that obviously is problematic. And what's striking to me beyond just that it got to this point to begin with, which is crazy, is that there's not someone in that orbit, in his universe, who has the maturity and the capacity to say, this wording is problematic. Maybe we can go back and revise it. We recognize that we've sort of lit a fire. Let's try to revamp it. Because that would be sort of a rational human thing to do is like, look, we didn't mean to offend anyone.

Let us scrub it and replace it with something else. But in a political context, you can never admit that you've made a misstep. And more importantly, I think for DeSantis, he doesn't want to back down from something that goes with his brand, which is we are going to push back against all these efforts to promote diversity and inclusion, and we want to sanitize our history. And I mean, it also is, it has real impact on the state, his anti-woke agenda, because Florida has a teacher shortage now, right? It has become harder for people in the state to want to teach. Yeah. And this will get into a little later in the show. Some of the fundraising issues that DeSantis is having right now and staff firings he's had to conduct.

But, Jackie, this just seems like it's another political fight that he's picked and now losing. I mean, even just looking at his body language during that statement, it was like bobblehead DeSantis was back. But it does. I think Sam is absolutely right. It speaks to an issue that people have long criticized DeSantis for, especially some of the people on the Trump side of things who previously worked for DeSantis in Florida, which is he can't he can't keep staff because he doesn't take advice from anyone. He doesn't have any senior people around him to help him navigate this. And he is speaking to an increasingly small slice of the base, not even the electorate.

And as you just noted, we're right out of the gate here, and he is blowing through money. He had a fairly decent haul. He's blown all of it on staffing so far. He's already laying people off. It sort of feels like Rick Perry, a la 2016, had some—or Scott Walker as well, I guess. A handful of them for that matter. I have 20 of them. I have 20 of them.

You talked about his body language, showing how uncomfortable he is. Look at Chris Christie's body language. Is anyone in this campaign having more fun than Chris Christie? Because the chances of him getting the nomination pretty low. I mean, maybe if some kind of bank shot against New Hampshire. But he is making the case that the other Republicans are afraid to make. And he is having a tough time. Certainly he's positioning himself as truth teller.

And if Donald Trump skips that first debate, you can imagine Governor Christie is going to train his fire on Governor Santis. The truth teller who is the first to endorse Donald Trump. No, of course. We should never lose that context, the validation he gave Trump back in 2016. The Washington Post's Jackie Alimany. I suspect you have a busy week ahead. Thank you for-

Barbie Heimer. Yes. Yes, see that movie. Don't worry about the impending indictments. Get to the movies. Thank you for... Barbie Heimer. Don't worry about the impending indictments. Thank you for joining us this morning. Coming up here on Morning Joe, protests are intensifying in Israel as thousands march in Jerusalem in an effort to stop government plans to overhaul that country's judicial system. We're going to get a live report on where things stand. Plus, the French government undergoing a major reshuffle after a series of crises and riots erupted nationwide in recent weeks.

Morning Joe, we'll be back with all of that. Back as we turn to some news overseas now, tens of thousands of Israelis marched from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem this weekend in protest of a controversial law to be voted on today in Israel's parliament. If passed, the law would limit the ways in which Israel's Supreme Court can overrule the government. As the New York Times reports, the law would bar the court from using the contentious legal standard of reasonableness to block government decisions, giving ministers greater leeway to act without judicial oversight. Israel's government says the law would free up elected officials to perform their duties,

while the opposition insists it would hurt democracy by removing a key check on government outreach. We should know President Biden has warned against Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu from enacting this reform. And joining us now live from Jerusalem, NBC News foreign correspondent Raf Sanchez standing there among the protests. Raf, tell us what you're seeing around you and what we should expect today. Well, Jonathan, as you can see, we are seeing thousands of Israeli protesters braving the summer heat, gathering in front of the Israeli parliament in a last-ditch effort to try to stop this legislation.

Earlier on today, we saw them blocking roads, Israeli police using water cannon to try to dislodge them. A number of arrests were made. But Jonathan, this is really the last roll of the dice for this protest movement that has been so sustained for seven months, leading to what many think is the biggest political crisis in Israel's history. Few people alive today can remember a moment when this country was as divided as it is right now.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, if he were here, would tell you that this legislation is necessary to curb the powers of the unelected Supreme Court and restore the supremacy of the Israeli parliament. But many of these demonstrators will say they genuinely believe that if the legislation today goes through, it is the beginning of the end of Israeli democracy. And it is not just the people on the streets who are afraid of that. Big business today announcing that 150 of Israel's largest companies are closing their doors. These are shopping malls. These are major stores in protest at these legislation. And Jonathan, there is a real danger that what started as a political crisis may turn into a security crisis. Over the weekend, thousands of Israeli military reservists have said they will stop showing up for duty if this

legislation goes through. And this is having a particular impact on the Israeli Air Force. In some squadrons in the Air Force, half of the pilots are reservists as opposed to regular duty. And if those reservists don't show up, it is not clear that the Israeli Air Force can continue to function at full strength. We caught up yesterday with Guy Pilon. He is one of the protest leaders here. He's also a former fighter pilot. And he explains why these pilots who have dedicated their lives to defending this country have taken this drastic step. Take a listen to what he had to say. We're not going to continue to risk our lives going to serve in an air force of a country that is not democratic. It's as simple as that.

Israeli democracy will not be the same. And if this means confrontation with our brothers in Israel who think differently, then we're sorry, but this is what it's going to be. You're either for this kind of legislation or you're fighting against it. And this is something that has never happened in 75 years of existence of Israel. And frankly, it's frightening. And Jonathan, despite everything, the warnings from those Air Force pilots, the size of the crowds here on the streets, and that plea from President Biden, every indication is Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

is preparing to push ahead with a final vote potentially around 11 a.m. Eastern. Jonathan. NBC's Raf Sanchez live from Jerusalem. Thank you. And please keep us posted. Let's bring in now the president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, our friend Richard Haass. Richard, good to see you. Let's start right there. If this vote does go through, as Raf says, is expected, what does that mean for Israel as a democracy and as well as its relationships with the United States and other allies? Well, Jonathan, Israel will continue to be a democracy. The real question is what kind of a democracy? What's going to be the nature of the Israeli state? Israel has always been a Jewish state, but it's also been a secular country. And at least in principle and often in practice,

it was pursuing some accommodation with the Palestinians after the 1967 war. What we're seeing in Israel is not just a battle over this judicial proposal. We're seeing a battle for the future character of Israel. What is the role of religion in the state? How dominant will Orthodox be? Will there be any element of trying to reach a combination with the Palestinians, or will the settler movement simply take over? So yes, Israeli democracy will survive, but it will be a very, very different Israel. And that's what you're really seeing played out on the streets of the

country is a battle for the future soul and character and personality of the country. And because of political realities and demographic trends, I'll be honest with you, I think the Orthodox, I think the more conservative Israelis are most likely to prevail. So, Richard, we want to turn now to the war in Eastern Europe. Russia claims to have shot down drones both in Moscow as well as in Crimea this morning with an ammunition depot on the illegally annexed peninsula getting damaged in that attack. Reuters reports that it's unclear whether the drones in Moscow were struck in midair and collided with a high-rise office building or were targeting the building itself.

We're looking at a little of the footage of the damage now. Meanwhile, Russia continues to step up its attacks on Ukrainian port cities. Early Sunday morning, a series of blasts in Odessa killed one person and injured over 20 others, including four children. One of those blasts severely damaged Ukraine's historic Transfiguration Cathedral in that city's center. The Orthodox Cathedral was consecrated in 1809, destroyed during the Soviet era under Stalin, and then rebuilt when Ukraine became independent. And Richard, the spasm of violence from Putin comes at a moment in this war where President Zelensky over the weekend acknowledged that the counteroffensive was going really slow. He he he blamed a lack of ammunition, a lack of supplies for that. You know, certainly the West has been funneling things their way

from the start of this war. How what do you make of where we are now? And how much more time does Ukraine have here in this fighting season to show some progress? What we're seeing, Jonathan, is further evidence is there are essentially multiple wars. There's the wars between Ukrainian and Russian troops. And as you say, the counteroffensive is going slowly, possibly because of shortages of munitions. They're being churned at an extraordinarily high rate. Also, the Russians are dug in. They're in defensive positions and have shown the fields with enormous number of mines. So at the moment, defense seems to be pretty much holding its own against offense, even though Ukraine is slowly, slowly, slowly regaining some of the territorial

loss over the last year, year and a half. But we're also seeing a wider war. We're seeing a war against economic targets, against obviously the entire Ukrainian ability to export agricultural products. We're seeing it against the cities, now against the religious side. So what we're seeing is a slight widening of things. Coming to your basic question, I think in a few months, the battlefield will look somewhat like it looks today, more similar than dissimilar. So then you're going to have a big debate.

OK, we've had two fighting seasons. Should there be a third? Should there be any changes? And whether it's at the end of this fighting season or the next one, I think you're going to have a much more robust debate about whether there needs to be something diplomatic, even to use the loaded word, compromise. So we make sure there's a Ukraine that we can, at the end of the day, preserve and save. At the same time, it still pursues through other means other than military. It's diplomatic goals. So elsewhere in Europe, Spain yesterday plunged into political gridlock after an inconclusive

national elections ended with no clear majority. The far right opposition party and its coalition partners secured 169 seats in parliament, but that is seven short of the 176 required to win an absolute majority. Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez's socialist party and its likely coalition partners also fell short. They have 153 seats. The results led to a hung parliament. Both coalitions will need to negotiate with smaller parties to try and reach the majority threshold. It's also possible that a new election could be held if no deals are made. And those elections in Spain and the impact of the rise of the extreme right in Europe is something that's being watched closely in neighboring France. And joining us now from Paris, French Transport Minister Clement Bon.

Mr. Prime Minister, thank you for being with us this morning. Let's start right there. As you, from your vantage point in Paris, as you're watching what's happening in Spain, what is your level of concern about what's happening with your neighbor? Thank you very much. And thank you very much for your invitation this morning. And of course, we are watching closely what is happening in Spain. It is partly what we see in a lot of Western democracies, which with more difficult coalitions, hung parliament sometimes, we can see it in a lot of parliamentary democracies across EU, across Europe. What is interesting, I think, is that it was expected that far right would be extremely high. Actually, the far right party lost ground, which proves that when we fight

on European issues, pro-Europe agenda, pro-reform agenda, pro-democracy and Western values agenda, as Pedro Sanchez and the main right-wing party did, they can be first. And now there are discussions on the coalition that will probably take some weeks. But I think it's also a positive signal that far right is not on the rise, which cannot be stopped in European democracies and European countries. So interesting to hear what's happening in Spain. But let's turn back to Ukraine, because what we're seeing with this stalemated or largely stalemated military situation is kind of a test of patience for Americans. Talk about the patience that you see in France and Europe

for sustaining this battle if there is not a clear military outcome in the months ahead? It will probably take time still. But what we see very clearly is that Putin bets on the fact that European countries, the U.S., would lack patience and would sustain, support Ukraine for a few weeks, a few months, but not for a long period of time. We are ready to support Ukraine for as long and as much as necessary. We are doing it, the US and European partners. And I think there should be no doubt that we will bring the

military and civilian support, which is necessary. Nobody really knows how much time it takes, but Ukraine is up and fighting. I was there three months ago in Odessa, actually. It's really painful to see what is happening these days in Odessa. But we will bring the civilian support which is necessary, for instance, to rebuild, to rebuild the train systems, the infrastructure which are necessary. Of course, the military support, mainly by the U.S., but also by European partners, including France, in the forefront. We will not lose that and lose that support. Mr. Minister, this is Richard Haass. As you correctly said, the far-right party in Spain actually lost ground in the recent elections there. But we're not seeing that in France.

We're seeing the far-right party, the National Front, still looks very strong in the polls. We see the alienation, the polarization in French society. What confidence do you have and why that the center in France can hold the way the center seems to be holding in Spain? It's, of course, very difficult to say and to explain fully what we see, that we have a different political system from Spain or Germany or Italy, for instance. We have a presidential system. We also have a more radical, sometimes political culture. But we have stability.

And in this system, President Macron, as you know, won twice against the far-right candidates. It was difficult. It was not a given. And we also demonstrated that we were able to stand at the center with a pro-European agenda, pro-reform agenda. Of course, it's a fight which will take a long time, to be very frank, because far-right parties or extremist parties are strong because they leave, they use difficulties, the social difficulties,

the political fatigue in all our democracies. We see that in a different manner in the UK with Brexit, in the US in the previous years. So, let's be honest, it will not be a simple fight. It will not be just a few years moment. It will be, I think, a long fight for my generation in politics to fight. But there's no, what is interesting in Spain is that there's no fatal way which is leading to the far right gaining ground and gaining ground using immigration, using social difficulties to get momentum and to get votes. So we will do this fight again against Madame Le Pen, her party. And I'm sure that if we stand very clearly on this pro-European agenda, this pro-democratic

agenda against Russia, of Putin, which Madame Le Pen supported very clearly, we have a way to remain strong at the center. French Transport Minister Clement Bon, thank you so much for joining us this morning. Thank you very much. And Richard Haass, you have many titles, of course, years of government service, your role at the Council on Foreign Relations, you're the author of the substack known as Home and Away, folks should subscribe. But what you're really known for is your role here is Morning Joe's golf correspondent. The Open ended up across the pond there in Liverpool yesterday.

Give us a quick recap, if you will, of the final golf major of the year. 36-year-old American Brian Harmon won. He was leading for over 50 holes, Jonathan. Stunning dominant performance. Let me just give you one statistic. He made 58 of 59 putts within 10 feet. 58 of 59. Nobody, nobody putts that well. He was the most consistent, steady

golfer on a very, very narrow, very, very difficult golf course. Just a dominant, dominant performance. And by the way, congratulations. You were right. You And by the way, congratulations. You were right. You called it the Open, not the British Open. And that's impressive accuracy for someone who roots for a team that plays in Fenway Park.

Oh, you know, I had been so generous with you to this point, Richard. I was going to mention the Yankees sweeping the Royals, but we won't do that now. Richard Haas. I will say, one correction, though. The only time we've ever seen putting like that, Sam Stein, miniature golf. The guy doesn't miss. Don't miss. Navigates the windmills.

Got to make sure it's coming on the down. The clown mouth, all that. The crocodile. The crocodile. Richard Haas, thank you so very much.