Morning Joe - Morning Joe 8/10/22

Episode Date: August 10, 2022

FBI seizes about 12 boxes of material from Trump’s home ...

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Actually, Trump supporters think Biden knew about the raid beforehand, but the White House said that he didn't. Biden can't win with Trump supporters. One day he's completely senile, the next he knows everything. Trump was pretty upset about the search, and he put out a statement that said, they even broke into my safe. They even broke into my safe.
Starting point is 00:00:25 Trump was like, damn it, I knew I should have flushed that safe down the toilet. I knew it. All right. Six o'clock on the East Coast. There are new developments on the Justice Department investigation of Donald Trump, including confirmation that the FBI search of his Florida home, Mar-a-Lago, was related to the handling of classified information. We will have the outlandish claims from his attorneys, desperate for some sort of defense here, I guess. Plus, the former president is set to be deposed in New York State's investigation into the Trump organization today. And a sixth Trump backed candidate wins a Republican
Starting point is 00:01:08 primary for governor this time in Wisconsin. We'll have the latest on that election and others. Also, the very latest from Ukraine. New information this morning on how Ukrainian forces are pulling off some pivotal attacks against Russian targets. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Wednesday, August 10th. With us, we have U.S. special correspondent for BBC News, Katty Kay, former aide to the George W. Bush White House and State Department's Elise Jordan and White House editor for Politico. Sam Stein is with us this morning. Good to have you all.
Starting point is 00:01:46 Joe, I thought we'd kick the morning off because we've been talking a lot about not just what happened at Mar-a-Lago and the FBI search, but the response to it. Sort of the strange and dangerous ironies of Trump's Republican Party, so to speak. Well, and you look at how Republicans are doing right now, whether you're looking at the generic ballot, you look how they're doing in special elections, they're underperforming what was done in 2020 by five, six points in a lot of these special elections.
Starting point is 00:02:20 They continue to fall. When you look at what happens in polling, you look in the Senate races, they're underperforming in a year that should be massive for the GOP. And they just can't seem to connect the dots. And now they're all rushing to the defense of a guy who likely broke the law and who's going to be brought to justice. They keep careening closer and closer to a cliff of political oblivion. And Americans can see it. They can see how hypocritical this Republican Party is. Yes, I understand people are upset because they're going, this is war.
Starting point is 00:03:04 This is war. Let's tan this is war. This is war. Let's tan our testicles. This is war. They're so extreme. And they're hypocritical. And Americans can see through this grift. You see, they're shocked by a legal search for classified documents. A legal search.
Starting point is 00:03:24 You read Hugh Hewitt's column yesterday in the Washington Post, a very good column that spelled it all out. He said, well, of course, a former president can be searched, but we need transparency. I agree with Hugh on that. But they're shocked by a legal search of a residence by law enforcement authorities. But they're just fine with riots that Donald Trump let loose on the U.S. Capitol. They claim to support law enforcement. But now they're screaming about needing to defund the most important federal law enforcement body in America that protects you and your family and all of us.
Starting point is 00:04:09 These Republicans, they attack any kind of investigations that look into Trump's un-American activities, his un-American actions. They call them a witch hunts. McCarthy promises, if you elect us, we're going to once again launch our own witch hunts against law enforcement agencies who were trying to do their jobs, trying to enforce the law and trying to keep Americans safe. It's tortured logic. These twisted actions all meant to defend a failed reality host at the cost of harming America, its constitution and its promise that no man is above the law. That's that's not radical. It's not a radical concept. It's sort of at the core of who we are as a nation. And the fact that the Republican Party of Washington, D.C., are melting down the way they are. It shows why they're in political trouble right now, and that's going to continue if they continue to look back for inspiration in their future.
Starting point is 00:05:26 It's bad news, Mika. It is tortured logic. That's a really good way of putting it. And they are preying upon people who don't have the time or who have too much on their hands to deal with whether it's true or not. Taking advantage of people. Tim and Tammy Faye Baker routine, except they're not exploiting Jesus for gain, for money, for power. They're exploiting people's, well, their sense of patriotism and lying to them every day, exploiting them for money, for power, for the big grift. Anyway. But what I see here, what concerns me about what they're doing and also those who echo it or try and torture that logic even more for hours and hours every day is that this will promote violence and unnecessary, untrue hatred based on lies and could roil up even more than what we've already seen. And it is beyond irresponsible whether you are a politician or a member of the media.
Starting point is 00:06:36 Well, if you can't look back to see what happened on January 6th, you can't look back to see how their words led to January 6th, inspired people to go up and riot. You can't see that. Well, we're starting in the wrong place. Guess what? You're going to face the same problems that so many people, unfortunately, are facing now that took part in the riots on January 6th. I mean, when are they going to ever learn? Well, let's get to the news on this. We have the latest developments on the FBI search of Donald Trump's home. Sources familiar with the matter tell The Washington Post that federal authorities were concerned that Trump had not returned to the National Archives all of the material that he had improperly taken
Starting point is 00:07:23 to Mar-a-Lago after leaving the White House in 2021. He returned 15 boxes about seven months ago. You might remember that reporting and the video of the boxes leaving Mar-a-Lago. Twelve more boxes were seized in Monday's search. Trump's attorney, Christina Bob, says the former president's legal team has been in discussions with the Justice Department since the spring about whether additional records were being stored at Mar-a-Lago. She says Trump's attorneys met with federal officials at Mar-a-Lago on at least two occasions. Sources tell NBC News at some point during the probe, Trump personally showed investigators the room where
Starting point is 00:08:06 the materials were stored. Here's what he heard from Trump's legal team yesterday, including Christina Bobb, the attorney who was on the property during the FBI search. I don't think that there was actually anything there that's worthwhile. I will see what they come up with. You know, if they did, it'll be interesting, especially since they precluded me from actually watching what they did. But at this point, I don't necessarily think that they would even go to the extent of trying to plant information. I think they just make stuff up and, you know, come up with whatever they want. And that's the way that they will have to proceed in order to actually try to indict the president, because they don't have anything. There's just nothing there. This is a joke. This is memento. And
Starting point is 00:08:51 quite honestly, I'm concerned that they may have planted something, you know, at this point, who knows? The New York Times reports the investigation is being led by the Justice Department's National Security Division. Trump and his attorneys do have a copy of the warrant that explains the probable cause of the search. Why won't they? Why won't they release a warrant like Donald Trump? There's nothing you had said yesterday. Donald Trump can release a warrant. He should release the warrant if it's such a scam, Donald. Right. Hey, Donald, I know you watch. If it's such a scam, listen to me, release the warrant. They would rather actually have it hanging out there. Donald, you've got the warrant.
Starting point is 00:09:36 You've got the warrant. Okay. Stop the scam. Stop the grift. Release the warrant. Let us see why they came in to Morilago. Let us see what they're looking for. Let us see what illegal actions they believe you're taking. You've got the warrant in your hands. Let us see it. I think it'll be good for America. And by the way, if it's a scam, we'll be able to tell on the face of that warrant. Just release it now.
Starting point is 00:10:15 The search is prompting strong criticism from top Republican leaders. A statement from Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell yesterday reads, quote, the country deserves a thorough and immediate explanation of what led to the events on Monday. Attorney General Garland and the Department of Justice should already have provided answers to the American people and must do so immediately. Let's stop right there. I want to stop right there.
Starting point is 00:10:40 Here's Mitch McConnell. Now, I'm sure a lot of people would see this and go, oh my God, that's horrible. How could Mitch McConnell. Now, I'm sure a lot of people would see this and go, oh, my God, that's horrible. How how could Mitch McConnell say that? It's just the worst, worst thing ever that Mitch McConnell would say such a thing. That's what Walter Isaacson said yesterday. Now, that's what Walter Isaacson said yesterday. By the way, I agree with Hugh Hewitt that Donald Trump should release a warrant. I also agree, Katty, that the DOJ needs to be transparent.
Starting point is 00:11:12 Is Katty Kaye here? OK, great. She is here. Fantastic. I thought I was talking to a wall. So, Katty, the DOJ needs to be transparent. This was a historic moment when you're going to a former president. We don't need to be in the dark.
Starting point is 00:11:29 Like last night, I'm reading through the latest New York Times article, trying to read between the lines, trying to figure out who was leaking what, trying to figure out what they really had on Donald Trump. Two things can be true at one time. Donald Trump, they could have probable cause for Donald Trump. And the DOJ, as Walter Isaacson said, needs to be transparent. We still really don't know what's going on here. Yeah, we live in an age of crazy conspiracy theories and crazy conspiracy theories thrive in darkness, thrive when there is not clarity and when there is not transparency. This is an unprecedented step that has caused a huge amount of outlaw, much of it predictable. We knew that the Trump base was going to fly off the handle when this happened. But it's very quickly leading to threats of violence, to things that are a real danger potentially to the American public.
Starting point is 00:12:26 One way, and I'm not saying it would go all the way to clearing this up and to stopping some of those threats of violence, but one way to help would be for as much transparency as possible, for the DOJ to be completely transparent, for Donald Trump to release that warrant, for us to know what the facts are, why the FBI went in, why this was why this big step was signed off on, because that would help mitigate some of the craziness that is flying around in the Internet right now. We just need we need daylight on this as much daylight as possible to minimize the risks of violence and something crazy happening in the country. A lawyer, an older lawyer, told me early on, if you have a jury, a reason to think the worst
Starting point is 00:13:09 about your client, they will think the worst of your client. So you put everything out there right up front in the opening statement, let them know everything and then proceed with your case from there. Now, listen, I understand, Mika. All right. Even if Merrick Garland comes out and when he explains all of this, the haters are going to hate. The liars are going to lie. The grifters are going to grift. We get that. All right. Quarters, this is for people of good faith on both sides of the aisle to understand what was behind this historic search of a former president's property. He needs, and again, I agree with Walter Isaacson, he needs to be transparent. Can I just, I mean, I agree with you. And I, transparency is always what I'm going to be pushing for, no matter what it is. It's what we do. We want answers. That's what we're built to do. But in this case, I know that we know everybody knows that no matter what comes out, no matter what happens, the far right and Trumpists are going to torture logic, to twist the truth, to jump all over
Starting point is 00:14:27 things, perhaps, perhaps even inside a riot. I'm only talking about the things we know. We have witnessed our Capitol, our U.S. Capitol get desecrated, vandalized. People died on the steps of the U.S. Capitol. People were injured. People were traumatized for the rest of our life. And people have gone to jail. And yet there are Republicans who still won up the chaos that he stirred up on January 6th, who has a bunch of idiots, a bunch of idiot cult followers who megaphone his voice across America, whether it be Steve Bannon or members of the media, respected members of the media who are at major cable networks that many Americans watch all day, every day.
Starting point is 00:15:30 And they listen. And they don't tell the truth or they don't hold back and wait for the truth. where they want to go with it. It is very tough, I think, to find a way to investigate wrong and not create more of a scene or a problem. I mean, we're 24 hours out of this. Right. Three weeks from now, I'll be screaming the same thing. No, no, no. Here's the thing. And that's what I said. You're going to have no matter what he does, you will have these these people who it's scary, who have dedicated their lives to defending a failed reality TV host over defending the United States Constitution, the rule of law. You'll have them hating. You'll have them grifting, raising money off of this. You'll have them doing all the things that you just said. Storming. But we're a 50-50 nation, right? Okay. So I don't really care anymore what conspiracy theorists, idiots, yahoos think. If they want to go to Chinese religious cults, if they love
Starting point is 00:16:39 Chinese religious cults so much and want to study their websites and study other conspiracy theories, what can we do about that? That's up to their family members that love them to bring them back to reality. But I think, again, for those of us, whether it's Walter or a lot of people watching today that are concerned about transparency, that are concerned about what the other two thirds of Americans think. It's important. It's important to do this right, because we've seen the consequences of what happens when it's done wrong. Yeah. And I could bring up several things that went wrong in past investigations of Donald Trump, like the like the dossier, like the Steele dossier, for instance, which, by the way, on the first day we said doesn't sound right, actually.
Starting point is 00:17:31 But things go wrong in investigations. You need to be transparent. You need to be straightforward, not for the conspiracy theorists. OK, so everybody, you just take a deep breath and don't tweet at me because I'm not going to read it anyway. We're talking about the two thirds of Americans and more importantly, the 10 percent of Americans. Who are going to decide who runs this country over the next two years? Those are the people that the DOJ needs to be transparent for. Well, former Vice President Mike Pence, who Trump reportedly said deserved to be hanged on January 6th, is also calling on the DOJ to
Starting point is 00:18:13 explain its actions. In a tweet, Pence wrote that he shares the deep concerns of millions of Americans about the search and that it undermines public confidence. OK, first of all, that's nonsense. That's absolute nonsense. Let me again, just wanting to be clear here, there's not a deep concern except among conspiracy theorists and people who want to kiss Donald Trump's butt. So there's a deep concern for Mike Pence because he thinks Sam Stein, this may help him. He thinks this may. And I see we have Lindsey. I'm not going to read Lindsey Graham. Why would I read? Well, we're not going to talk about what Lindsey Graham says kissing Donald Trump's, but we're not going to do it. OK, I'll just I'll just say, though, Sam, again, you can be for transparency and still think that what the FBI did was was within the realm of of of what they legally needed to do to move forward. We have classified documents that Donald Trump refused to turn over classified documents that obviously have to do with national security.
Starting point is 00:19:17 This is something if anybody else in America had taken all of these classified documents to their home after leaving public office, they'd already be in jail. Yeah. And look, I think I'm sort of with Miki here and you. I believe that there obviously needs to be more transparency from justice here. It's for the public benefit. I'm a journalist. I would love to see what's going on. I would love to know what the documents were, for instance. The department's position on this is that it's procedure not to talk about these cases and that you can get in trouble when you do talk about these cases. So the most prominent example, of course, would be James Comey coming out in the midst of the 2016 campaign with that press conference in the summer and then the letter announcing that he had found Anthony Weiner's laptop. And we all know the history there. So obviously, there's some
Starting point is 00:20:09 issue. They don't want to go down that route. And Merrick Garland, as we know, plays it by the book. And so that's probably where they're coming from here. But to your point, Joe, someone else could be transparent here, too, which is Trump, who has a copy of the warning, put it out at any time. They could talk about what the materials were that they believe that were taken. They don't need to suggest that evidence was planted, as the lawyers have. And I guess I would just end on the sort of larger picture here, which is what you were getting at early on. It was like this amazing split screen happening right now, which is Trump is going to have to be questioned by the New York Attorney General's office today over his business feelings. His campaign, a little notice yesterday, released all of its 2016 staff from their NDAs. The House
Starting point is 00:20:50 Ways and Means Committee yesterday was granted access to Trump's tax terms. And we have this FBI search of Mar-a-Lago. At the same time, last night, this is all in the last 24 hours, at the same time last night, a slate of Trump-end trump endorsed candidates won their nominations for critical offices across the country so we have a ex-president under siege having multiple fronts where he's taking by blows and yet his grip on the republican party remains incredibly strong i just don't know how tenuous that is for the Republican Party. Yeah, I mean, his grip remains strong. Look at this guy. Wouldn't this be the time to walk away? I say, look at this guy, and they take Donald Trump off the screen. TJ,
Starting point is 00:21:41 please, what have I ever done to you? Look at this guy. Here we go. Thank you, TJ. Look at this guy. This guy brought the Republican Party losses in Georgia. So they won. So Democrats won the Senate two years ago. This is the guy that have given Republicans Dr. Oz in Pennsylvania, a man with negative ratings higher than any negative ratings I've ever seen in a competitive Senate race. And it's not even that competitive anymore. This is the guy that gave Republicans in Ohio butters, butters, a guy who goes, I love Silicon Valley. I hate Silicon Valley. I love San Francisco. I hate San Francisco. I love venture capitalism. I hate venture capital. This is a guy that's done that. And you look what's happened in Arizona. We've got hope and change, Kerry Lake in Arizona. He's taken the swing states that he lost.
Starting point is 00:22:35 And he's backed the craziest wackos. And in Georgia, Herschel Walker. God help us. I need an Ovaltine decoder to try to figure out what that guy's saying at all times. So yes, he did it again in Wisconsin. He did it across America. This guy is driving the Republican Party over the cliff. And Mitch McConnell knows that and other John Thune knows that and another Republicans know that they won't say it publicly. Well, Mitch said it publicly. They know that. And yet this is pulling them even closer to him. My God, when will they ever learn? And at least I want to follow up on what Sam Stein just said.
Starting point is 00:23:21 And by the way, Sam Stein now is the Harold Ford chair for Joe Studies because he said, I agree with Joe and I agree with Mika. You have to be diplomatic, have to be diplomatic. Being very diplomatic. But there is there is this need for transparency. And at the same time, you know, Democrats don't need to apologize. Others don't need to apologize. If the Department of Justice is doing what the Department of Justice is supposed to do, going after classified documents that a former public official refuses to turn over. Which is just insane that boxes of documents were hauled out of the white house i remember when i
Starting point is 00:24:08 worked at the white house as a low-level staffer in speech writing and before i left that time and before i came back to work at the nsc i had to be so detailed and make sure that anything i had written on in a meeting with a top official, that that was submitted. And really just, they did a good job of scaring the death out of you, that if you broke that law, that you would not be right with the authorities. And just to take those documents so cavalierly down to Mar-a-Lago, it still is just jaw-dropping. That said, how many years is it going to be before we really know what's in the documents if they're classified? I do think the content of the documents is going to matter in terms of how it's going to shape public opinion.
Starting point is 00:24:58 And I'm a longtime proponent of changing the way that the government overclassifies virtually everything because so much of it is so antiquated and unnecessary. Our standards of how we classify. Yet again, it's going to be another story where Donald Trump does not face the consequences that anyone else who had committed the act that he did would face. Yeah. And you're exactly right. It's a couple of things, at least, though, that first of all, let's follow up also with what Sam said about James Comey, who decided not to indict Hillary Clinton, then held a press conference to explain it. He was rightly criticized. He was roundly criticized for going out. And I remember we said on this show, you either indict somebody and go after him or you don't indict somebody and you shut up. So I guess it is a little hypocritical to be saying Merrick Garland should be telling us everything today when we actually were critical before of James Comey
Starting point is 00:26:12 for going out and worrying about the political nature of a case and talking too much about it by DOJ standards. So, Elise, there is no doubt as as we keep talking about he he needs to be more transparent. There is no doubt there is a balancing act here, isn't there? Definitely. And I just you read some of the rhetoric that's coming out of the far right. And I feel like the January 6th commission had had political impact just, you know, in turning the four to five percent that needed to turn away from Donald Trump. And if there's not a big there there, I worry that those supporters could see this as yet another example of Donald Trump, the victim and return to him. Well, if you're going to go in and execute a search warrant on a former president's
Starting point is 00:27:06 residence and business, there better be a big there there. I mean, let me let's just say that right now. There better be a big there there, because it was a very significant act and there better be a significant concern by the FBI and the DOJ to do that. The more transparent they are, the less questions any of us will have about that. And finally, Katie Kay, I just want to, as we talk about a Republican party gone mad, I want to bring up my favorite tweets yesterday from from political hacks who were trying to kiss up to Donald Trump, who will say, if this can happen to the president of the United States, it can happen to you, which I think is the most patriotic thing I've ever. They mean it. What they mean as an insult is actually the greatest compliment to America's rule of law. If you can be found guilty of
Starting point is 00:28:02 something or if the FBI can come search your house, they can search a former president's house. To me, that's really reassuring. And it means, what does it mean? What does it mean? Republicans that put that out there? Here we go. No man is above the law. No woman is above the law. No one is above the law. And Katty, how bizarre that they don't seem to get that. As Merrick Garland said to Lester Holt, it turns out he was serious. No one is above the law, not even the president of the United States and no, not even the average voter. I mean, I think that's, you know, in a way that I guess the gratifying thing about this and we and I agree that it's we there has to be a there
Starting point is 00:28:41 there because this was an unprecedented step. And if the White House had been involved in this, would they have chosen the week that they wanted actually to be talking about their spending bill and their legislative victories? I think what was remarkable is that it sort of showed that the Justice Department was independent and the Justice Department was functioning in a way perhaps we didn't see during the Trump administration in exactly the way that it's meant to be functioning. No one is above the law. And when they have something they have to act, they don't take the White House's political calendar or Congress's political calendar into account. They did it on their own basis on on the issue of whether it's worth the transparency and whether any minds will be changed.
Starting point is 00:29:20 Remember, these are states that are won by only 10,000 votes in Arizona. You don't have to change very many minds. But clearly, you don't want to also give ammunition to those 4% to 5%, as Elise was talking about, who are persuadable. You want to try and make sure they have access to all the information they have and aren't swamped by a deluge of outrage when perhaps there may be something important that was being searched for in Mar-a-Lago. And the public deserves to know that. We're going to continue to talk about this and cover all the developments as we go to break. Some of the other stories making headlines this morning. President Biden has signed a bipartisan bill that aims to strengthen U.S. competitiveness
Starting point is 00:30:01 with China. The bill, coined the Chips and Science Act, will invest billions of dollars in domestic semiconductor manufacturing and scientific research. That's a good idea. I know a lot of Republicans wanted to kill the bill. We're whipping against a bill that would make America more competitive with China. It will also set aside $52 billion to bolster the U.S. computer chip sector. The White House yesterday began touting the immediate impacts of the legislation, saying multiple companies spurred by the chips bill have announced more than $40 billion in new investments. And there is some relief at the pump for millions of Americans as gas prices are falling across the country. For the first time since March,
Starting point is 00:30:45 the national average yesterday was below four dollars a gallon, according to GasBuddy. That's down more than a full dollar per gallon from their height earlier this summer. Analysts say U.S. gasoline inventories have risen in recent weeks, leading to less demand contributing to the price drop. And another wave of airline cancellations and delays taking a toll on passengers across the country. More than 1,000 domestic and international flights were delayed and over 100 canceled yesterday. That's according to the flight tracking website FlightAware. Those figures are down from Monday, which saw nearly 7,000 flight delays and hundreds of cancellations, but we're still probably recovering from that. Horrible. I wonder if Mayor Pete was on that note, Joe, with all the airline, excuse me,
Starting point is 00:31:38 Joe, with all the airline cancellations, we heard you urging Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg to take some commercial flights to see the problems firsthand. The cabinet secretary may or may not have been watching, and he's going to be joining us live today to talk about it with you. Can't wait to see the commercial flights win. Plus, as Sam mentioned, former President Trump is in New York and ready to testify. We'll get you caught up on the long running civil investigation into his business dealings in the Big Apple. Plus, a top Trump ally gets a visit from the FBI. What agents seized from the Pennsylvania congressman? Also ahead, the Ukrainian army appears to strike deep into occupied territory.
Starting point is 00:32:27 We'll have expert analysis on this new development in the war. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. We see all too clearly how NATO remains an indispensable alliance for the world of today and the world of tomorrow. Our alliance is closer than ever. It is more united than ever. And when Finland and Sweden bring the number of allies to 32, we'll be
Starting point is 00:33:13 stronger than ever. Stronger than ever. You know, Mika, this is the sort of thing that Americans going day to day, worried about gas prices, worried about grocery prices, worried about inflation, seeing what's happening with Donald Trump. They don't really focus on these sort of things. Presidents, generals, national security advisers for decades to come will look back at this moment and be grateful for what Joe Biden, with the help of
Starting point is 00:33:49 some Republicans in the Senate and the House, have done to strengthen the NATO alliance when Donald Trump wanted to destroy it. And adding Sweden and Finland, my God. Again, these are benefits that presidents coming up in the future, whether they're Republicans or Democrats, will be grateful for. Going to make a huge difference. He's done an incredible job with the situation in Ukraine and navigating and trying to ward off a potential World War III nuclear crisis. And all the things in between pertaining to NATO and transatlantic security. It's been it's been really I mean, there are not many leaders on the world stage of democracies and burgeoning democracies who aren't grateful to Joe Biden for what he has done on the world
Starting point is 00:34:40 stage, by the way, starting to this war, starting with President Zelensky. Correct. And again, I just want to I just want to say President Biden has done a masterful job. And we all should be grateful for freedom. Loving people should be grateful for what he has done. And I want to add Democrats and Republicans have worked together in a bipartisan manner. And that has made a great difference as well. And big changes in Ukraine. More news coming out in the war. Some really interesting developments. They are not giving up.
Starting point is 00:35:16 In fact, they're digging in. In Ukraine, a series of powerful explosions rocked an airbase in the Russian-controlled Crimea region, killing one person and injuring several others. Of course, Russia took Crimea from Ukraine in 2014, I believe. The attack, if conducted by Ukraine, would amount to a dramatic escalation in the nearly six-month-old war. The New York Times reporting that Ukrainian loyalists, residents inside Kremlin-controlled areas, have been credited with this strike and recent others. It follows widespread praise from Western analysts who say Ukrainian forces are able
Starting point is 00:35:57 to put Western weapons and training to good use. Meanwhile, Russia's defense ministry insisted that the base was not attacked and munitions blew up. Yes. Hold on. Baghdad. Bob lives. Your friend Trump. And he's working in Russia. Yeah. Baghdad. Oh, it's a fire fireworks display. In the past, terribly wrong. Russia has warned Kiev that any attack on Crimea, which Moscow annexed in 2014, as I mentioned, would trigger a massive retaliation. Oh, you mean like war crimes? You mean like the stuff they do every day towards Ukraine? Yeah, that's a problem. If you're committing war crimes against a country every day, you really take away their incentive to show restraint. Joining us now, former NATO Supreme
Starting point is 00:36:40 Allied Commander James Tafridis. He's also chief international analyst for NBC News and MSNBC. And Michael Weiss, senior correspondent for Yahoo News, joins us. Well, good to have you both with us this morning. Admiral, let's begin with you. We talked before about the importance of a campaign in the south before winter sets in. I wasn't talking about this far south, but I suspect you may think it's a pretty good idea strategically. It's incredibly good idea. We can't give Russia a pass on. Oh, we won't attack Crimea because you annexed it. That's ridiculous. And by the way, someone needs to tell the Russian defense ministry that there are these
Starting point is 00:37:25 things called satellites that look down. So everything that happens on that base is totally clear, including the destruction of some nice, tasty number of jets and helicopters. This is a very good move by the Ukrainians. And it just shows how well they are burning in, adapting, using the weapons systems that we're providing to them. And the second point to be made here, Joe, is geographically, this shows the Ukrainians pushing toward a city called Kyrgyzstan, just north of Crimea, controls the water supplies into Crimea. That will put more pressure indeed. Final point, this will cause the Kremlin to have to move troops away from where they've kind of been grinding it out up to the northern part of that map you're showing. They're going to have to
Starting point is 00:38:18 bias against potential Ukrainian gains in the south. So overall, very good day for the Ukrainians. By the way, Joe, just one quick point on Sweden and Finland. Look, I know those those militaries extremely well. They deployed under my command in Afghanistan. They are turnkey operations for the alliance. It simply is on massive technology, great cyber capability, land forces, artillery, opens up a whole new front for the Kremlin. Nothing but good. It's a pretty good day around the European security circuit. It's fantastic. Michael, I was going to actually ask you about Kyrgyzstan because I saw you talking about it yesterday. But let's talk about Crimea and also the move towards Kyrgyzstan by the Ukrainian forces. Yeah, well, the first thing I'd say, Joe, is this is a remarkable data point for this idea
Starting point is 00:39:11 that we must be fearful of escalating the war with Russia. The Russian defense ministry and Russian government officials suggested that this was an accident caused by cigarette smoking. So their whole response to this is it simply didn't happen. But in fact, not only did it happen, but it's been a remarkable day. I mean, I've been following Ukrainian social media. They haven't been this ecstatic since the sinking of the Moskva, the cruise ship belonging to the Black Sea Fleet several months ago. The real question is, how did the Ukrainians do it? The Washington Post has reported that this was a special forces operation, perhaps suggested that they had assets in place in Crimea, which would also be remarkable. This is in the
Starting point is 00:39:50 southwest of the peninsula. It's about 180 miles from any Ukrainian-held territory in the mainland. So if this was a sabotage operation, that's pretty impressive. Now, if they used ammunition, it's even more interesting because, again, 180 miles away from any Ukrainian launch pad suggested that Ukraine now has long range artillery capability, precisely the thing the U.S. has been reluctant to provide. Remember, Jake Sullivan, National Security Advisor a few weeks ago at the Aspen Security Forum, was asked about these weapons known as attackums. And he said, we don't want to do that because we're afraid of risking World War III. Well, maybe the Ukrainians, this has been the reporting, have developed their own equivalent to these systems, perhaps with U.S. technical support.
Starting point is 00:40:36 You know, one of the hallmarks of Western security assistance has been, and we've talked about it on the show, quote unquote, creative solutions, right? We don't want to escalate. We don't want to we don't want to antagonize the Russians too much. So we do things. We find workarounds, for instance, dismantling warplanes and then sending them to Ukraine under the rubric of spare parts where they then get reassembled. Well, another thing we could do is send U.S. engineers to Ukraine and help them develop their own homegrown long range missile system. A senior official in the Ministry of Defense told me yesterday in response to the strike in Crimea, quote, it's just getting warmed up. So as that admiral just pointed out, this is this is a key strategic move in preparation for the coming counteroffensive in Hursan, which is an oblast directly north of Crimea. And then, Ron, I'm curious, what do you think is more likely?
Starting point is 00:41:25 Because I heard the first reports were talking about a possible U.S. weapons system, and then we started hearing reports of sabotage. I'm a little skeptical, sabotage that far behind enemy lines, but perhaps it happened. Could that be a smokescreen to avert Russian eyes away from a weapon system? Oh, absolutely. And it would also cause the Russians to be thinking, oh, my gosh, are there partisans at work here? Are the Ukrainian special forces all over us, which I believe they probably are. Joe, it's probably a combination of those two things. And militarily, the best situation you can have is special forces on the ground forward, bringing their capability, their targeting, and then add to that drones, unmanned and long range fires, as Michael points out. Overall, a very good day. One other thing being
Starting point is 00:42:19 widely reported that's worth pointing out because it gets to this difficulty Putin is going to have finding the troops to prepare to defend in the South. The Russians are evidently going into their prison system and recruiting prisoners, offering them a commutation of their sentence if they will go and fight in the front, as well as a cash bonus. Boy, that's a country in serious need of manpower. And it ties to the reporting of 70,000 to 80,000 casualties. That's half the force that went into Crimea laid out by the Pentagon a couple of days ago. Admiral, can we switch gears a bit and look at another subject that you're also looking at? You've got a new piece in Bloomberg titled the U.S.-China War over Taiwan isn't
Starting point is 00:43:11 happening anytime soon. There's been a lot of speculation that Xi might want to move on Taiwan rapidly, particularly after Nancy Pelosi's visit perhaps inflamed tensions. But you have a different point of view on this. Why? I'll give you a couple of quick reasons, Katty. Number one, President Xi is watching Ukraine and he's wondering, I wonder if my generals are as bad as those Russian generals appear to be. Pretty good question. Number two, he's looking at the fighting spirit of the Ukrainians and a charismatic leader in the form of Zelensky shift to Taiwan, I believe they will fight. Their woman president, Madam Tsai, is very steely. She could be a Zelensky if needed, in my view. And number three,
Starting point is 00:43:56 Xi is asking himself, gosh, these sanctions, maybe my economy is too big to sanction. Well, maybe. But certainly the idea of very targeted sanctions have to have a, shall we say, a clarifying effect on the Chinese mind. And finally, and you know this well, Katty, later this fall, President Xi is going to stand for, if you will, re-election. He'll be anointed as the next third term, five-year term to lead China. He's not looking for a significant dust up with the United States. So I look for tensions to kind of come down. And in fact, China announced yesterday they are concluding the military drills around Taiwan. Hey, Michael, it's Sam Stein here. I want to pick up on something you said. Why couldn't that have been cigarette smoke? No, I'm just kidding. I actually wanted to know about the endgame here in Ukraine and Russia. Obviously, we're now months in. Tensions continue to boil. What are the actual diplomatic offerings? Are there any? We saw some collaboration with Turkey on exporting grain,
Starting point is 00:45:06 which seemed to be like a nice green shoot of optimism that maybe there were some talks. But are you picking up any willingness on either side to start broaching a diplomatic off-ramp to this crisis? That's a very easy answer. And it's no, I think what we're seeing at play here is an attempt to essentially increase Ukraine's leverage for any very far away diplomatic solution or an attempt to try and strike one, you know, Ukraine wants to do at the end of a bayonet, what a lot of people have suggested the United States somehow forces it to do at a negotiating table. Retaking Herson is one way to kind of lift this blockade that the Russians have imposed. I mean, Russian state
Starting point is 00:45:51 propagandists have been very clear. Famine, starvation, hunger, particularly affecting African countries, is their way to force the West to lift sanctions. And I think the West's response, if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, in terms of this latest security assistance package, the kind of things that the Ukrainians are now able to do that they weren't weeks ago, is to say, you know what, don't worry about sanctions relief, we'll lift the blockade ourselves through military means. And I think, you know, I was in Kiev just a few weeks ago, every Ukrainian official I talked to said that the battle for the South is coming. It's going to start before the end of the summer and carry on into September.
Starting point is 00:46:30 And the crucial thing for us Ukrainians is to show the West, not only can we hold our ground very well, not only can we take out Russian logistics and resupply capabilities in Donbass using high Mars and long range artillery, but we can recapture our own land. And remember, at the start of this campaign, February 24th, Russia was in control of about 8% of Ukrainian territory. As of today, Russia controls 20% of Ukraine's territory. So if Ukraine can push that percentage down to 15%, 10%, then they're about where they were several months ago. And that puts Putin in a very awkward position. All right. Retired four star Navy Admiral James DeVritas. Thank you so much. And Michael Weiss, thank you as well. We really appreciate both of
Starting point is 00:47:17 you coming on this morning and coming up. We'll go live to Wisconsin where a Trump backed election denier has won the Republican nomination for governor. That should go well. Plus, Steve Kornacki will be at the big board to break down that race and yesterday's other big primary contests across four states. Also ahead, we're watching out for new data on consumer prices that could show inflation is coming off its peak. Morning Joe will be right back. All right. It's just a few minutes before the top of the hour. A live look at New York City, sunny and clear this morning over the Big Apple. Welcome back. We're going to get the very latest on the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago in just a moment.
Starting point is 00:48:25 But first, two other big developments involving the former president. Donald Trump has confirmed that he will testify today in New York State's civil investigation into his own real estate dealings. Posting yesterday on his social media website that he's, quote, in New York City tonight seeing racist New York state attorney general tomorrow. He just he just wants everybody to know that the attorney general is black. So he just calls a black attorney general racist. And by the way, don't you love the fact that it's not the DOJ releasing information about the search. Wow. It's Donald Trump.
Starting point is 00:49:07 It's Donald Trump putting out racist statements about other investigations that are going on. I mean, he knows what he can. Like I said, he can he can release the warrant. He can show us instead of his stupid statements that appeal to the lowest common denominator. They really do. And both of his children, by the way, testified in that probe last week. Meanwhile, the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for Washington, D.C., has ruled that Donald Trump's tax returns can be turned over to the House Ways and Means Committee. First requested back in 2019, the release of the former president's tax returns have been tied up in the court system for years. A federal judge in December tossed out Trump's lawsuit, which sought to block
Starting point is 00:49:59 the House panel from obtaining the returns. So, Sam, these New York investigations, the tax returns, what, you know, what are your thoughts on where those stand as it compares to the FBI search? Well, they're not good for Trump, right? He's been fighting all this stuff on various fronts, you know, took the tax issue to the Supreme Court, obviously doesn't want to testify about his business dealings. He's been incredibly secretive about those. I will caution that we're not going to get information as a public from this stuff, at least not immediately. The tax attorneys do have to be turned over to the House Ways and Means Committee, but they're prohibited from publishing them. This deposition he's going to sit down with isn't going to be posted online anytime soon.
Starting point is 00:50:49 But it just on the broader theme of it, it's the walls closing in on this man on a host of fronts. Like I mentioned, he also has to turn over. He also has to relieve all his 2016 campaign staff from their NDAs. You know, and if you're Trump, it's, you know, it's like one thing after another. And yet remarkably, although maybe not that remarkably, he still has this tight grip on the Republican Party and his candidates are winning race after race after race. It's just these cross currents that I just don't know how tenable they are. Yeah, we'll be following it all. It's all really beginning to happen. Things are getting real. We are just about at the top of the hour on this Wednesday, August 10th, and we're following new
Starting point is 00:51:31 developments in the Justice Department investigation into Donald Trump's handling of classified documents and the extremely hypocritical reaction from the Republican Party. Disturbing, really. We're also awaiting a key inflation report. It's expected to give new insight into the health of the U.S. economy. And in just a few moments, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg will join us to explain why he believes air travel is getting better when major problems appear to persist. Katty Kay and Elise Jordan are still with us and joining the conversation we have, former chief of staff to the DCCC, Adrienne Elrod. She was senior aide to the Hillary Clinton and Biden presidential campaigns
Starting point is 00:52:16 and founder of the conservative website, The Bulwark. Charlie Sykes also joining us this morning. The Reverend Al Sharpton. Good to have you all this hour. A lot going on, Joe. Yeah, a lot going on. And we got an email from a Morning Joe member of the family, John Heilman, emailed to let me know he was not Harold Ford, that he did not agree with everybody. In fact, he disagreed with me a great deal. And he said,
Starting point is 00:52:46 hey, Joe, I disagree with you and transparency regarding Trump. There are very good reasons why the DOJ policy has always been to not discuss ongoing investigations. The department speaks only when and after it files charges or a declaration. These reasons are why what Comey did twice was so, I'll clean it up, screwed up. As a rule, it's wildly unfair to the target of any investigation to discuss the investigation before charges are filed, if they are filed. The DOJ didn't tell the world about the Mar-a-Lago search. Trump did. And he did so precisely for this reason to stir up. And I quote him here. All this shit.
Starting point is 00:53:34 Transparency about the investigation should come if Trump is charged. Not before. What the DOJ needs to do is to move fast to charge Trump or not. And Charlie Sykes, I take it you likely agree with that as well. I mean, it is again, the important thing to remember here is Donald Trump has the document. Donald Trump has the warrant. As Hugh Hewitt said in his Washington Post column yesterday, Donald Trump should release the warrant, all of it, so we can see what the search was about. What do you think? You know, I'm having flashbacks to when Bill Barr framed the Mueller report. Remember, he came out and he had his own summary of it, but he did not release the whole report.
Starting point is 00:54:24 And I think one of the things that Donald Trump has realized is that he there's a certain asymmetry here. He knows that the Department of Justice generally will not comment. So he's going to come out and he's going to frame the issue the way that he wants. He saw that Bill Barr did it with the Mueller report. And it's so far it is working for me. Part of this is this is this asymmetry between a Department of Justice, which has a longstanding tradition of not commenting on these investigations. But you're absolutely right. Look, Donald Trump is holding that warrant. He has he has the return sheet.
Starting point is 00:54:58 He could release that if he has nothing to hide. He could he could put that out. And so in terms of the pressure of transparency, that's the easy one putting into asking Trump, OK, why don't you show us what you have rather than the Department of Justice, which at this point, look, is probably engaged in a grand jury investigation. And there are very strict rules about what you can reveal and what you can't reveal from a grand jury investigation. So, Charlie, in your new piece for The Bulwark, you focus on the FBI search, writing in part this. They, the FBI, also must have known that by raiding Trump's home, the DOJ would be crossing the Rubicon. There's no going back now, if anything.
Starting point is 00:55:40 I think I understated the case because it is about to get very ugly. Elected Republicans who frequently remind us that they are the party of law and order could have, one, adopted a posture of strategic silence or two, given the FBI the benefit of the doubt while they conducted a court sanctioned investigation. Instead, they gave us this sort of thing, end quote. Take a look. Threats to defund the FBI, threats to the attorney general himself, claims designed to chip away at trust in our institution. It goes on, claiming a legal FBI search is the weaponization of government. Paul Gosar saying we must destroy the FBI. I mean, these guys, Joe, are a joke. Well, they're a joke. They are. But Charlie, they're a joke. They are a dangerous joke at that. I'll be the first to admit, because I guess I at times I'm a bit too optimistic before January the 6th.
Starting point is 00:56:48 I was concerned, but I didn't think that what happened on January 6th would ever happen, that people who claim to love America would ever brutalize police officers and beat them up with American flags. I never thought that they would go in and jam police officers' heads in doors and wipe excrement all over the Capitol and try to hang the vice president of the United States. So, yes, from a distance, they look like jokes. Up close, very dangerous. And the fact that members of Congress are saying what they are saying shows that absolutely nothing was learned by the insurrection of January the 6th. No, you're right. I mean, this is what is so dangerous about this rhetoric. I mean, we are seeing this massive uptick in violent rhetoric on sites that had been
Starting point is 00:57:41 used to foment the January 6thth insurrection look we are in a very dangerous situation this is a very very dangerous moment and um this would be a moment where the grown-ups would exercise a little bit of restraint would dial down the rhetoric instead from kevin mccarthy on down um they are joining in this uh delegitimizing the investigation attacking law enforcement by the way, awfully ironic from the party that made a big issue of defunding the police, now embracing defunding the FBI. And this this politics of paranoia has so deeply infected the Republican Party that you are seeing you are seeing leading Republicans who are willing to engage in what really amounts
Starting point is 00:58:26 to a cover up, willing to go along with the obstruction of justice in Kevin McCarthy's case, threatening the Department of Justice and buying into the idea that that if the Department of Justice enforces the rule of law, they will retaliate against them. So we are in a dangerous, dangerous moment here. And for people who think, well, you know, you are exaggerating the danger of political violence, we have already seen the political violence. You have to be in serious denial not to see the kind of rhetoric that's going out there and the kind of rhetoric that is being, I'm sorry, encouraged by elected Republicans who ought to know better, who are creating a permission structure to go along with this. This bizarre conflation of a court sanctioned investigation with the Stasi and the Gestapo and communist, you know, and communist regimes. I mean, this is this is the kind of rhetoric that if you saw it coming from progressives, Republicans would lose their minds. Their hair would be on fire. And yet now you look at the Twitter feed of Republican United States senators and it's almost indistinguishable.

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