Morning Joe - Morning Joe 8/14/24

Episode Date: August 14, 2024

Trump set to hold rally Wednesday in North Carolina

The Republican Party needs to make a serious shift here. And the first thing is the Republican Party, Donald Trump, people here at Fox, quit complaining that she's not giving an interview. You don't need an interview from Kamala Harris. We need him to win. But you gotta go out and do the work. And the one thing Republicans have to stop, don't quit whining about her. I want this campaign to win. But you've got to go out and do the work. And the one thing Republicans have to stop, don't quit whining about her. I want this campaign to win. But the campaign is not going to win talking about crowd sizes. It's not going to win talking about what race Kamala Harris is.

It's not going to win talking about whether she's dumb. It's not. You can't win on those things. The American people are smart. Treat them like they're smart. Former Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley with some advice for her party. It's not hard. They're just whining. It doesn't work. Right, Willie? It doesn't work. I mean, and she's the one.

Remember, she's the one that said if you elect Donald Trump, if you nominate Donald Trump, he's going to lose. She warned him. She's warned him again. And good for her for going on Fox, issuing the warning. Yeah. Down to her last day in New Hampshire, she was saying, when you lose in November, don't come crying to me. I'm warning you now he's going to lose in November. And as we pointed out yesterday, guys, she is just the latest in the people supporting Donald Trump. Some of the very close to Donald Trump saying you got to knock this off. You got to stop going out and posting wild conspiracy theories about crowd sizes, talking about her race and everything else and focus on the issues. But as we know well and everyone watching the show knows well and everyone in the country at this point should know well, this is not a man who's going to change who he is and suddenly become a great policy wonk.

This is who he is. He's guided by his own grievance. And he's upset that Kamala Harris in this moment is getting the better of him. And, you know, it's just a lot of times you've got politicians that have issues that won't work for them. Right. Right. And so they try to distract and they try to do this and that. The weird thing about Republicans and I felt this way since Donald Trump got got got it. I think most Americans agree with them on basic economic issues and on the border and on all these other issues. Unfortunately, they killed the border and on all these other issues. Unfortunately, they killed the border bill. But the thing is, if they argue the issues, they've got a better than even chance

of winning. But they don't argue the issues. They just refuse to. Well, they in some may be trying to, but then it comes back to the candidate himself. And he tends to talk about sizes of crowds or stomachs. And so it's sort of hard to it's hard to campaign on that. As Nikki Haley said it herself, it's hard to campaign on negativity. With us, we have the host of Way Too Early, White House peer chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, MSNBC contributor Mike Barnicle, president of the National Action Network and host of MSNBC's Politics Nation, Reverend Al Sharpton and managing editor at the Bulwark. Sam Stein is with us this morning. So in an effort to blunt the momentum of Vice President Kamala Harris, Donald Trump is headed to North Carolina later today for a rally in Asheville that his campaign is touting as a significant economic address. It's been 16 years since a Democrat won the state and its 16 electoral votes when Barack Obama prevailed there in 2008.

Trump won North Carolina in 2020 by less than 75000 votes. And Sam Stein, I mean, it's pretty simple math when you look at these states, especially in the South. One of the reasons Georgia tipped first to Democrats the way it has to senators is because Atlanta is such a massive urban center, so big in the suburbs that that actually the rural votes can come in overwhelmingly for Donald Trump. And it doesn't matter. North Carolina is moving into that direction and people expect North Carolina eventually to tip Democratic as Charlotte and the other cities get bigger. You also you have a good size black vote. You have a good size educated vote there with all of the schools. And so North Carolina could tip.

And I think most Democrats think maybe for eight years it's going to be solidly blue. But what do you have with Donald Trump and just an absolutely radical Republican gubernatorial candidate is giving Democrats in the Harris campaign hope that they can take it this year like Barack Obama did once. Summer. Do we have audio on Sam? Hello? Do you not have audio on me? So listen, I will say this, Sam. He's wearing it.

No, he's wearing his microphone. You know, I would say after we've done this show for like a couple of months, I think we're going to get good at it. But go ahead, Sam. North Carolina. I've learned my lesson. I will never, ever, ever, ever blame technicians. They are the godsend of the show. That one was on me.

That one was on me. That one was on me. He really has come along. He's still singing five years later. I'm still tarred by it. People still come up to me and mention that moment, and it's really jarring. I will say about North Carolina. Kind of like Christian Bale yelling at his lighting guy, right? It went viral.

That's a deep cut, Sharon. I'm went viral. And it's a deep cut. I'm joking. That is a deep cut. We're going to get this. We're going to get this bag on track here. North Carolina. Let's remember, Obama won North Carolina, as Joe mentioned. It was supposed to be the southern state that went Democratic first.

And then Georgia kind of leapfrogged it. And largely because Trump basically turned off much of the suburbs in and around Atlanta. Georgia flips. North Carolina's kind of been the stubborn, annoying little state, not little, pretty big state. Democrats have tried to get again and again. It's been fool's gold. Part of the reason is it's just hasn't had that same type of conversion that Georgia did. But for, you know, the past couple of months, the Biden people, now the Harris people have looked at it and said, look, we have a real chance of flipping this. I think the fact that Trump is showing up there today is a real sign that they're nervous about the state. I think Joe hit it on the head. The fact that Mark Robinson's on the head of the

gubernatorial ticket for Republicans, really a radical figure, all things considered relative to other gubernatorial candidates on the Republican side. This could be the state that kind of under the radar Harris could flip, which makes her path to getting to 270 a lot easier. Suddenly, you don't have to be so preoccupied with Michigan or Wisconsin. Obviously, Pennsylvania is huge. You still need to have that one. But yeah, North Carolina is one of those under the radar targets for Harris. It is, John, extraordinary to think about where we were a month ago when Joe Biden was viewed as being the nominee. Obviously, talking about states like Minnesota, maybe going Republican, that they were going to lose Democratic strongholds. They're throwing them out. New Jersey. Forget Nevada and Georgia and Arizona and all the other places that they had started to write off a little bit and thinking we have to win these three states. That dynamic has changed completely. Now we're talking about

Georgia, Arizona, Nevada and maybe North Carolina now tipping in the direction of Kamala Harris. A total flip in the way we're sort of viewing the map at this point. Here's how things changed during the Republican National Convention. The Biden team put out a campaign memo that basically said our only path to victory was Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania. That's the only way they could do it. At the same time, the Republicans gave a briefing to reporters at the convention saying North Carolina's in the bag. We're not even going to worry about that. What happened this week? Donald Trump showing up in North Carolina. What else happened this week? They put in an ad buy in North Carolina. So that shows you how they are now concerned about that state. Vice put in an ad buy in North Carolina. So that shows you how they

are now concerned about that state. Vice President Harris will also be in North Carolina this week. She'll be there Friday. Mike Barnicle. And interestingly, both of the candidates are using that state to talk about the economy. Trump is going to talk about it today. Obviously, complaints about inflation and deriding what they've seen from the Biden White House. And then Kamala Harris on Friday in Raleigh is going to defend the record of the economy and try to silence some people who think that's one of her vulnerabilities. You know, to Willie's point, the sea change in American politics over just the past few weeks has been astounding. As you indicated, President Biden was supposed to be on the ballot three or four weeks ago,

and all the numbers in every state were going the wrong way. Now it's completely flip-flopped, including North Carolina, which is now in contention. And I would submit there's one other element to be added to this conversation. I think there's going to be another sea change after the first debate that occurs between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. When a black woman in the ring cuffs him around, which she will, I think he will go bananas in public and that will change everything. No, I agree with you. I think that the fact that this black woman is going to be standing there equal to him is already unnerving him. But for her to be able to prosecute the case when a few days later he has to actually go to a sentencing for his 34 felonies.

I think that he's at edge. I think that people don't understand that. Then not only has he naturally lost it, the man is looking at a sentencing date. I don't know why we keep avoiding the fact that we're talking about from debate to debate. The man doesn't know what the judge is going to do on the 18th. He may have to get permission from a parole officer to make the second debate. The almost 80 year old man. The almost 80 year old man. He's got to live with that. And then talking about North Carolina, I think that not only has it changed.

I spent some time in North Carolina last month. I preached at a church in Winston-Salem, Sir Walter Max Church, and then did the M.E. Zion Convention. And I'm so sick of all of them asking me, you know, I bring in Joe Scarborough with me? He's not my deacon. He's a friend of mine. But I've talked to people in North Carolina. And what has happened also is this bizarre gubernatorial candidate the Republicans have, who's a black man who says blacks ought to be paying reparations to whites for taking care of us during slavery. This is literally a quote. That is going to help Kamala Harris immeasurably. Yeah, it goes perfectly into our next story. It really does. And you look at, again, what Mike and Reverend of that and just say woman and see how much women get under his skin, how much Hillary Clinton got under his skin, how much

E. Jean Carroll and her attorney got under his skin. It's really he we know he does. He's shown it throughout his life. And then you add add the fact that she's a black woman. And I'm sure that makes it even more maddening. So The Washington Post is highlighting what it's calling Donald Trump's laundry list of increasingly bizarre claims. Take a look at this. The Post's analysis reads, quote, It's difficult to try and compare the relative ridiculousness of Trump's claims over time, but there is no question he has pushed the envelope in new and astonishing ways. Let's recap 10 of the most recent examples. Number one, his claim last week that a massive crowd at a rally

for Vice President Kamala Harris, quote, didn't exist and nobody was there. Trump wrote on social media that photos and videos of the crowd were AI generated, which they were not. Number two, that President Joe Biden prepared to have the FBI assassinate him when it lawfully seized classified documents from Mar-a-Lago in 2022. Number three, that it's the Democrats and their messaging that's to blame for last month's attempted assassination of Trump. Let that breathe for a minute. Number four, that Biden faked having COVID-19 last month in the days leading up to his withdrawal from the 2024 race. Number five, that Trump was nearly in a helicopter crash with former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown. After Brown

insisted last week that the incident never happened, a different black lawmaker from California came forward to say it was him in the chopper with Trump, not the former mayor. Number six, that Biden will try to reclaim the Democratic nomination at next week's Democratic National Convention. Number seven, that Harris only recently started identifying as black. Number eight, that the crowd at his rally on January 6th was bigger than the one Martin Luther King Jr. had for his famous I have a dream speech. Number nine, that other countries are emptying their prisons and sending criminals to the United States. And number 10, that the Democrats want to allow killing babies after birth. Well, that's a that that is a that's an oldie that they know about a sickie lied about for a very long time. So, Jonathan O'Meara, yesterday, Jonathan Shade wrote a column for New York magazine talking about the real media bias and that it's it's not on the left against the right against Donald Trump,

that in fact it is the mainstream media desperate to just keep keep this narrative going, that this is an election just like any other, that, you know, acting like it's Clinton versus Dole in 1996, ignoring these extraordinarily bizarre claims that would be disqualifying. And I've seen it time and again. A lot of people that sit around and, you know, oh, my God, the media, it's so biased. It's so biased against Donald Trump. Then Donald Trump will go out and say that a crowd of 10,000, 15,000 does in existence

AI generated. And they'll just kind of sit there and then go, you know, when is Kamala Harris going to have her first sit down interview with George Stephanopoulos? You're sitting there going, wait, don't we stop the presses on that? Don't we stop the presses when he makes up stories about Willie Brown and the helicopter crash? Don't we stop the presses? I mean, you could go down this list of 10 that Joe Biden is going, there's going to be a coup in Chicago and Joe Biden is going to be riding in with on a white stallion with us. So, I mean, there's just, I exaggerate a bit on that one, but all of these things are just crazy. And yet the press

will just take it in because they're so numb to it. And they'll go, what do you suspect her economic theory is going to be on quantitative easing? And when is she going to reveal it? It's just madness. I think that the media and a lot of Americans have just grown used to the insane ramblings from Donald Trump. And I think sometimes that the media struggles to give them the coverage they deserve. Now, I think that the press has done better in 2024 than it did in 2016, to be sure. Progress has been made, but there's a long way to go. And part of it is because Trump is, as we've discussed in the show a lot, has this false firehose of falsehoods. It's almost tough to keep track of everything that he does to put it in the show a lot, has this false firehose of falsehoods. It's almost tough to keep track of everything that he does to put it in the proper sort of context. I also think that, look, the mainstream, the media, and I won't speak for everyone, but certainly,

you know, outlets have suggested this, that there is this perception that the liberal is, the media is liberal, the mainstream media, and an effort to bend over backwards to prove that they're not, they sometimes overcompensate and they're not as critical with the Republican candidates as they should be. But really, I think what this show certainly has been doing all along is been focusing on the stakes of the election. We've been calling out Donald Trump when he lies and his dangerous policies. Yes, was there an overkill of coverage about President Biden's age? No doubt. This show has also talked about how Donald Trump is old, too. This show has also talked about how Donald Trump is old, too. But I think the key here is to focus on what's at stake this November.

And it's sometimes less the day to day dramas. But we have to call out what we see. Yeah. I mean, pick your pick your favorite from David Letterman's worst ever top 10 list that Mika just revealed there. And look at January 6th versus the I have a dream speech. He's raising as a point of pride the crowd he sent to the Capitol, an attempted coup against the United States government when the building was defaced, when officers were beaten, many of them now going to jail, some of his supporters favorably comparing that day, one of the darkest in our history, to the I have a dream speech given by Martin Luther King. That's who he is. And we have to keep talking about it.

That first claim from Donald Trump on The Washington Post list that Vice President Harris's crowds are generated by A.I., that they're not real. One of the signs Senator Bernie Sanders is pointing out shows Trump is setting the stage to deny the results of the 2024 election if he loses in November. Part of this numbing we're talking about in a statement. Senator Sanders writes Donald Trump may be crazy, but he's not stupid when he claims nobody showed up at a 10,000 person. Harris waltz rally in Michigan that was live streamed and widely covered by the media, that it was all A.I. and that Democrats cheat all of the time. There is a method to his madness. Senator Sanders goes on. If you can convince your supporters that thousands of people who

attended a televised rally do not exist, it will not be hard to convince them to the election returns in Pennsylvania, Michigan and elsewhere are fake and fraudulent. This is what destroying faith in institutions is about. This is what undermining democracy is about. This is what fascism is about, Rev. And this is what he's done from the beginning. Undermine the institutions so that you don't believe your own eyes. You believe only his voice. And I agree with Senator Sanders. He's preparing us to deny the election results in November because he believes that he has a chance of losing.

And so does most people at this point. And I think, again, your point. I don't think people understand how deeply insulting it is to compare the March on Washington. 63, where Dr. King gave that speech with an attempt to overthrow an election violently that his followers did, that he was present and sent them to the Capitol. I mean, they had National Guard ready in 63. Mrs. King, I was too young to know Dr. King. Mrs. King said they expected a riot that day. It was the most nonviolent expression of tens of thousands of people for the civil rights movement at that time in 63 to compare that to people beating on policemen, law enforcement and desecrating the Capitol in and of itself. What insult every American? You know, and Bernie Sanders that everybody needs to really take that are interested in what's going on in this country need to take that to heart because you go back and you can look at the rise of other fascist

governments and it's the playbook it is the playbook that you lie so much that you numb the media you numb the masses you numb people and soon and soon they give up on trying to figure out what the truth is. And I hear this from from people I grew up with all the time and people I've known for a very long time. They go, oh, you know, Joe, I just don't watch watch news anymore. And I don't read news anymore because you just you can't tell who's telling the truth and who's not telling the truth. And then you talk to them further and you ask where they get their news from. And it will be from a conspiracy Web site that that spreads these sort of lies. And and and so in part, they get what they're looking for, but also in part, they hear these lies. And again, it numbs them so much that they just give up. And that's exactly what's going on here. And what's the purpose of it?

As Bernie Sanders said, it's to undermine faith in institutions. When you have a presidential candidate, a president at the time saying, don't trust American democracy because I lost. And you have Republicans that follow along and undermine the American institution of democracy. And what Trump's own people said was the safest election ever, the cleanest election ever. And then you have a former president saying, don't trust the jury system. And then you have senators like Marco Rubio going out and saying that trial by jury in the United States of America with all the checks and balances is no better than Castro's Cuba. That is the undermining of institutions that radicals on the far left did in the 60s and the 70s. And the conservatives used to push back against, you know, Mika Edmund Burke said that you can

tear down institutions in a day that it took centuries to build up. And that's exactly what's going on here. Again, Edmund Burke, the father of conservatism, said you can tear down institutions in a day that took centuries to build. And the essence of conservatism is to respect the institutions, to protect the institutions and not be radicals who try to undermine and tear down those institutions, which sadly is what the so-called conservative party has been doing course of nine years, if you can believe. And you think about how this show began 17, 18 years ago with Willie. It was supposed to be a discussion, Democrat, Republican, about ideas based on facts. And that's what we celebrated. The civil conversation, the joy of debate and disagreeing on issues based on facts. And today we fight for the truth.

Today, it's a completely different landscape because of what has happened over the past nine years. And as Bernie Sanders pointed out, if you can take a crowd and make it disappear in people's eyes, then not only is it fascism potentially on its way or some sort of cult Sam Stein, but the bottom line is these people don't have to believe Donald Trump. The importance is that they don't believe anything. Read Anna Applebaum's book. Read Madeleine Albright's book. Listen to what Bernie Sanders just said.

And it's kind of frightening where this is going. Yeah, no. And I'm in 100 percent agreement here. I know Joe Biden was on CBS over the weekend. He was asked, do you think there will be a peaceful transition of power after the 2024 election? He said, no, if Trump loses, there will not be. And I think they're not like hiding the ball here, right? Trump has already laid the predicate for challenging the election results. In the House currently, conservative lawmakers are trying to push legislation that would solve a problem that doesn't exist. That problem is the ability of undocumented immigrants to vote. Can't do it. But that is too laying the predicate for challenging a result, because if that legislation doesn't pass and Donald Trump is to lose, those lawmakers

will then say, look, you didn't pass this bill to protect the vote. Therefore, it was illegally won by Kamala Harris. So I do worry about what's happening in 20, what will happen in the post-election environment if Trump loses. And I think we all should be on guard for it. It's a really troubling, harrowing possibility that we will find ourselves in something even worse potentially than what we experienced on January 6th. All right. Coming up on Morning Joe, Governor Tim Walz holds a pro-union event while Donald Trump faces allegations of being a union buster. We'll explain that split screen. Also ahead, Moscow is withdrawing some of troops from Ukraine to counter Kiev's surprise incursion into Russian territory.

We'll talk to retired Navy Admiral James DeVritas about the state of the war. Plus, we'll be joined by the American official on the diplomatic front lines when Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine more than two years ago. Former U.S. ambassador to Russia, John Sullivan, is our guest. You're watching Morning Joe. We're back in 90 seconds. Time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. Japan's prime minister, Fumio Kishida, is stepping down, bowing to pressure from within his own party and plummeting approval ratings. As The New York Times notes, the 67 year old becomes the latest in a long line of un researchers developing advanced surgeries to remove tumors from people with cancer. It's part of President Biden's ambitious cancer moonshot effort that he has championed for years. The initiative is expected to remain a major focus of his remaining time in office. And a military judge is examining Defense Secretary Lloyd

Austin's decision to rescind plea agreements that would have spared the plotters of 9-11 the death penalty. The war court in Guantanamo Bay will now assess the legality of Austin's decision. The Pentagon chief intervened just days after the ruling took capital punishment off the table. Russia appears to be reorganizing its forces in the wake of Ukraine's incursion. U.S. officials tell the Wall Street Journal that Russia is withdrawing troops from Ukraine to respond to the counter-assault. The officials did not specify how many troops have been moved, but it points to the effectiveness of Ukraine's gamble. The country's military commander said yesterday his forces had taken control of 74 Russian towns and villages since the incursion

was first launched last week. Let's bring in right now, former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, retired four-star Navy Admiral James Trevitas. He is a chief international analyst for NBC News. Admiral, thanks so much for being with us. I want to read a paragraph from the New York Times this morning, column this morning, article this morning. Mostly on the defensive, since a failed counteroffensive last year,

Ukraine has pushed seven miles into Russia along a 25 mile front, taking dozens of Russian soldiers as prisoners. Analysts and Russian officials say the governor of Russia's Kirk's reason said on Monday, Ukraine controls 28 towns and villages there. More than one hundred and thirty two thousand people have been evacuated from nearby areas, Russian officials said. And it seems that in this offensive, Ukraine has taken more ground in Russia than Russia has taken in Ukraine all year. Talk about this incursion and the strategic importance and really the strategic necessity of it for Ukraine. Yeah, that's the right word. And let's kind of do it from the inside out. So what's the impact in Russia and on the Russian armed forces? It's a morale blow to the Russian people who have been

fed endless propaganda and lies that this is going to be a cakewalk when the war started. And suddenly we're up to hundreds of thousands of dead Russians. And now Russia is invaded for the first time since the Second World War, Joe. I mean, this is 85 years ago and this shatters all of that. That's a big deal. Secondly, to the Russian piece of this, as you correctly point out, now they're forced to swing forces away from their main battle effort down south of where this military salient has occurred. Russia's got to deal with that.

They've got to shift forces. It's extremely disconcerting militarily. That's kind of the Russia piece over here in Ukraine and Kiev. Big shot in the arm. Morale has been sort of fluttery for the last year, frankly. This is a good boost to that. And third and finally, think about how this lands internationally. People talking about it. European airwaves are flooded with this. This is a big boost to the efforts to continue military aid to the Ukrainians. So those three audiences are all kind of two thumbs up. And we all should be this morning. Admiral, good morning. Ukraine's top military commander says they've taken 74 Russian towns and villages of varying sizes,

but 74 is not an insignificant number. So if we pull back a little bit, this is one moment in time in a long war. What is the larger significance? What does it say about where Ukraine is and about where Russia is in the war? Two big things. One that you're seeing, Willie, is the use of what we call combined arms. That's military speak for putting together air, artillery, armor, ground soldiers, cyber drones, putting it all together. This is exactly what the West has been training the Ukrainians to do for over two and a half years. And you're seeing a real proof of case in doing this. That is very disconcerting to the Russians. And then secondly, it's not just what's happening on the battlefield here, because this is not going to turn into a march on Moscow, Napoleon

in the 1800s burning the city of Moscow. That's not in the cards. But it's not just the battlefield. It's the negotiating table. If Zelensky can hold on to a chunk of this, that becomes a pretty significant bargaining chip. Final thought, several thousand Russian soldiers will end up being captured as a result to this over time. Those become bargaining chips to play back for Ukrainians that are captured and also looking ahead to that negotiating table. Admiral, that last usage of words that you just appropriated, if they can hold on to the territory they've seized in Russia right now, 74 villages and towns. The Russian army in terms of personnel is much, much larger than the Ukrainian army. The military incompetence level of the Russian

high command is notoriously incompetence. And I don't mean to throw cold water on any progress that's being made by the Ukrainian army. But if you look at the map and you look at the direction of the attack of the Ukrainian army within Russia, they could be easily, easily outflanked. Does this bother you at all? It does. And any time you create a kind of, again, to use a military word, a salient where you've taken, if you will, a peninsula of territory, you're now pretty vulnerable on both sides of that. But, Mike, it cuts both ways. The Ukrainians can then come out of that sailing and cut behind the Russian forces where their soft underbelly of logistics, command and control exists. That's why Putin's generals have got to move very quickly to shore this thing up. Bottom line, will they hold on to this territory?

I think that's unlikely. I think more of what's happening is that demonstration of military capability, morale busting in Russia, morale enhancing in Ukraine. That's the objective. They may well take those prisoners, come back and let Putin imagine where the next attack could come from. So, Joe, the most striking thing to me about all this is silence and that silence from the United States. No objections raised. And that's very different than what the Biden White House and Biden administration's approach has been throughout is they kept trying to tamp down Ukraine, try to warn off Ukraine from striking within Russia, giving very slow approval to using some of these long-range missiles, finally striking along border towns. On this one, Ukraine, per the officials I've spoken to, did not give the U.S. a heads up. They just went in. The United States has not objected. Neither

has its European allies. And officials I've talked to say this does suggest perhaps a little bit of a sea change, the United States being a little more willing for Ukraine to take these risks and to take the fight into Russia, shattering Putin's claim to his own citizens that this war effort would impact their lives. Well, and once again, it shows how well Joe Biden has worked this from the very beginning of the war. I mean, you've had people on the far right, basically, well, from the far left saying we should just, and J.D. Vance and Donald Trump basically saying we should just turn Ukraine over to Putin. And then you have people on the far right basically saying we need to go, you know, sing marching to Zion and storm Moscow. It doesn't work that way when you're dealing with a country that has more nuclear weapons than anybody else and is threatened to use it.

There has been a measured, ordered approach week after week, month after month, year after year. And this is where we are now. And it is working. And not only have the Ukrainians stayed in the fight because of the United States and our allies in Europe and across the world, but also because of Joe Biden's measured approach. And what are we seeing here? Not the beginning of the end. But as we as I quoted Churchill yesterday, I'll say it again, maybe the end of the beginning and maybe a move that actually encourages Vladimir Putin and his people to be more serious in their talks with Bill Burns the next time they have that opportunity and start putting together a plan for peace. And Admiral Servetus, I'm going to talk to you about two other things. Feel free to comment on that if you'd like. But while we're talking about peace,

I was struck by something I read, a paragraph in David Ignatius's latest column about what's going on in Gaza and how there is pressure from all sides for a ceasefire, for a hostage deal, for peace, except in one corner. And let me read this to you. And sadly, it's not surprising as Israel and Iran move closer to a regional war. Joe Biden, joined by the leaders of Egypt and Qatar have been mediating partners. The best outcome for this crisis for both countries, prodded by the international community, would be to agree to a ceasefire in Gaza and release Israeli hostages. Now, listen to this, Admiral.

The peace plan is backed by the UN Security Council, the Group of Seven, moderate Arab countries, Israel's defense and security establishment, and Hamas has dropped its main objection. And David goes on to say the only holdout is Benjamin Netanyahu. And I'm sorry, it needs to be said. The man that we have been talking about for months and others have been talking about for months who would stay, continue this war, continue to up the ante because he now alone, if you look, even even his war cabinet and his his defense ministers that think that think that his, quote, total victory in Gaza, even his own defense minister says that's just unrealistic. So do we are we really are we really in a position where one man is who's trying to avoid political defeat and jail, is going to move us into a regional war? Unfortunately, you can lay that case out pretty coherently that he is the roadblock here.

And I know well, for example, General Benny Gantz, who was the number two in the war cabinet, is, in my view, the probable next prime minister of Israel. He finally walked out of the war cabinet. Yoav Galant, another former defense minister, another former general I know well, who is the current defense minister, is the one who is publicly throwing the red flag on Benjamin Netanyahu's unconditional surrender of Hamas. By the way, his own defense, his own defense minister. So so before before before people start shouting, you're doing the bidding of Hamas, which, of course, nobody is here. This is his own defense minister. The security establishment all saying this is unrealistic and we need to avoid a regional war. We need to make make peace now or at least a ceasefire. Right.

100 percent correct. Picture a scenario where publicly Lloyd Austin is breaking out and saying that Joe Biden's approach to China and our defenses in the South China Sea are all wrong. It's impossible to imagine that. And yet it's unfolding in front of our eyes here. And by the way, Yoav Galant is not on the left in Israeli politics. So this is something that is finally starting to build around Netanyahu. I am hopeful of that. And your point, Joe, that all of this will put pressure that hopefully can help us at the negotiating table is crucial. A final thought back to Ukraine for one second. Something you said, I just want to draw a line under it. Yes, Team Biden has handled this well. You know who else has?

The Europeans, our allies. Yes, they have. Put more money into this than we have. They are more faithful to this, and they led the way on taking the shackles off the Ukrainians, letting them use long range UK missiles, French missiles. So above all, for me, as a former NATO commander, I look at what's happening in Ukraine through the prism of allied operations. Pretty good. And frankly, that ought to worry us when we talk about Team Trump coming

in here, who is so skeptical of our alliance systems. Exactly. Finally, I want to turn your attention to, and I'm sure you saw this, a piece by Ambassador Rahm Emanuel. And I'll quote the headline, the Navy is breaking down. We need our allies to help fix our ships. I'm curious, do you agree that our Navy is breaking down and we need help? Yes and yes. And the things that his honor, the former mayor, who's a good friend of mine, he so correctly underlines the challenges are in the defense industrial base, building the ships, the maintenance. What's not breaking down is the morale of our sailors who are under fire in the Arabian Gulf, under fire in the Indian Ocean from these Houthi rebels, knocking down missiles, launching strikes. Two aircraft carriers now in the region, a guided missile submarine.

Our Navy forward is doing just fine. And I know the ambassador would agree with me on that, Ambassador Emanuel. He is correct. It's the maintenance, the shipbuilding, the ship numbers. Those are things we've got to fix. And again, we've talked a lot about allies this morning, Japan in this regard, doubling their defense budget. One of the great ship building nations, ship repair. I've had ships under my command repaired there. It's quite remarkable. I am two thumbs up for Rahm Emanuel. Retired four star Navy Admiral James Tavridis, thank you, as always, for coming on this morning and coming up on Morning Joe. We're going to take a closer look at how some of Donald Trump's supporters now view the former president following last month's assassination attempt against him. NBC's Morgan Radford joins us with her new reporting. Our Secret Service sniper, whatever you want to call him,

he used one bullet from much further away. Our Secret Service sniper, whatever you want to call him, Wattashuck, he used one bullet from much further away. Being president is a dangerous profession. You know, this is a very dangerous, this is not the safest profession out there. But it was an amazing event. And for those of you that don't believe in God, I believe that there's only one reason that could have happened because the chances were so, so small. Former President Donald Trump at a rally in Montana on Friday talking about last month's assassination attempt against him. It's

been just over a month since that shooting near Butler, Pennsylvania. For many of Donald Trump's supporters, that attack has changed the way they see his campaign and a potential second term in office for him. NBC News correspondent and co-anchor of NBC News Daily, Morgan Radford, has been talking to some of those supporters and she joins us now. Morgan, good morning. What did you learn? A few things, Willie. It was really interesting. Number one, the assassination attempt is still very much on top of people's minds. And you can also hear it in terms like divine intervention. And you can see it in some of the T-shirts and the outfits appearing at these rallies. But we also learned that it's really reinforced a belief that existed well before the assassination attempt, that the former president has a role to play when it comes to religious policy right here

on earth. We will fight from the pulpit to the political stage. Give thanks and glory to God for sparing the life of President Donald Trump. There's a new type of language surrounding former President Donald Trump's campaign. Divine intervention. God has his hand on it. Doubling down after the failed assassination attempt on July 13th at a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, which Trump survived with only a minor ear injury. Trump is still alive, by God's grace. A sentiment echoed in everything from fan-made merchandise to music videos on social media. Before the assassination attempt, white evangelical Protestant voters supported Trump at a rate of 81 percent.

Now, could what many consider to be a miracle strengthen his popularity among Christians even more? To find out, we spoke to dozens of Trump supporters at religious events, churches and campaign rallies across the country who talked about everything from their goals for a second Trump term to their fears if he doesn't win. We need to protect the babies. It's not logical for a man to pretend to be a woman and compete at any male sport. To their political opposition. I'm ready for them to make the Bible hate speech. You think people who vote on for them to make the Bible hate speech. You think people who vote on the left would make the Bible hate speech? Definitely. Allison Painter says she was on the Capitol grounds on January 6th.

So you're talking to an insurrectionist. You were there. I was. Her belief, divine intervention played a role in saving Trump, and it can do the same for the nation as a whole. We need to have Christ back in our country. What does that look like, to have Christ back in our country? What does that look like politically? Just like Louisiana. Put the Ten Commandments back in our classrooms. We need that.

Shane Winnings is a pastor and the CEO of Promise Keepers, a men's ministry group. He says there's a bigger message. My message to Christians, and it should be loud and clear now, is if you don't want to be in politics, that's fine. But politics wants to be involved in you. Do you think this particular, the second run of Trump, has re-energized the Christian right in a new or different way? A thousand percent.

All following a seismic shift among Republican voters happening before the assassination attempt. While more than 40 percent of Republicans believed Trump was anointed by God in a 2020 survey, that number dropped to just 18 percent three years later. One of the reasons why we see Trump and many others in his orbit using religious language and specifically going to talk to Christians and Christian audiences is to try to reinforce those connections. Connections that are now resonating with some Trump supporters, like Joseph Patterson. It was a miracle. So if Trump has been divinely protected, does that mean that he has to listen to Congress or listen to man-made entities? Yes, he will.

He can listen to himself. Even if it's against maybe the will of the American people or the Supreme Court or Democrats? So whatever for President Trump says goes, is that kind of what I'm hearing? Yeah. We reached out to the Trump campaign for comment and have not gotten a response yet. And to put all of this, though, in context, 63 percent of Americans consider themselves to be Christian, according to the most recent polling from Pew Research. But it is really important to note that not all Christians are evangelicals. In fact, evangelicals are around 24 percent of the population, a number that's declined by six percent since 2007. But this is a group

that has gotten much more reliably Republican in the last 40 years, which means that their turnout is going to be incredibly key for the Trump campaign this fall. Morgan, the fact that you see so many that feel that Trump's attempted assassination was somehow God intervening. Do they at all deal with the other side that feels it was a warning? I mean, you you can see throughout the Bible where God warned people and where God delivered people. Is there any balance at all in in in your research? That is a great question. No one described it as a warning. And of course, given the context, these are, you know, ardent Trump supporters. But interestingly, I did ask, do you think then if Trump was divinely anointed, that perhaps Vice President Kamala Harris might

be anointed if she runs at the point at the time? And they said, no, absolutely not. The bullet was the evidence. We haven't seen that type of evidence for Ms. Harris. But I think what's even more interesting on a larger scale is you're seeing how closely tied this evangelical movement has become to the MAGA movement. But it's working in one direction. There was actually like a Pew research poll that came out in 2021 that people really overlooked. And it basically said that if you looked, white voters who had warm feelings towards Trump in 2016 began to identify as evangelical during his four years in office. But actually, about 25 percent of Democrats thought that he was anointed, which reminds you that there are just some people who believe that by virtue of being a president,

you have been divinely ordained. You know, there are really so many things to talk about here. I'm really I don't know where to start. And Morgan, feel free to jump in here. But I don't understand. So God spared Donald Trump, but he killed Corey Compertory in front of his children, in front of his family. That's that's the first thing. It's it's that's that happened. That's shooting. Yeah. During the shooting. The second thing is we are talking about the the the margins, Morgan. David Brody with CBN just sent me an ad that we're going to put up soon, evangelicals for Harris, and we're going to run it. And while, you know, some people may may mock that effort, David underlined these stats. Barack Obama got 26 percent of the white evangelical vote in 2008. And he won. Hillary Clinton got 16 percent of the evangelical white vote in 2016. And she lost. Joe Biden in 2020 got 24 percent of the white evangelical vote. And he won. And David Brody and I think many others would agree that if Kamala Harris gets 20 percent plus of the white evangelical vote, she probably too

will win. So what we're talking about here are white evangelicals on the margins and those who probably don't want to vote for a man who said that he didn't need God's forgiveness, that he never asked for God's forgiveness because he never needed it. He kept God out of that. You know, it's interesting. I think when you talk to these voters, they see God as in the center of it. And Trump, for many of them, is the vessel by which they are seeing that God. And I think you make a really good point here. What you're talking about, Joe, is race and religion, right? And the confluence of those two things is what we're seeing play out here. So a lot of the voters I've talked to, I mean,

these are the same people that are when Trump is saying, look, she's not really black. If this is a man who walked into a room filled with black journalists and tried to convince them that the woman that was not appearing that day was not, in fact, one of them. And so if you're talking like that in that language to a base that already does not believe that this is a woman who represents them, I think it's it's clear that a case can be made that that vote is specifically up for grabs in a unique way for this particular former president. And I always go back to something we heard during the 2016 campaign. We've talked about all the things of Donald Trump's life that fly in the face of the teachings of Jesus. They say, we're not electing a saint, we're electing a president. And from that political calculation, they say now they got

three Supreme Court justices that overturned Roe versus Wade, Joe. So a win for them. Yeah. Sort of a political. Yeah. And Morgan brings up a great point. There are people that did not identify as evangelicals before Trump was elected that started calling themselves evangelicals. And Willie, as the late Tim Keller said, I've stopped calling myself an evangelical because that used to be an identifier for faith. Now it is a cultural identifier and unfortunately too tied into culture wars that have nothing to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's right. Morgan Radford, starting a great conversation for us as usual. NBC News correspondent, co-anchor of NBC News. Morgan, thanks so much. Great to see you.