Morning Joe - Morning Joe 9/12/23

Episode Date: September 12, 2023

Speaker McCarthy will endorse Biden impeachment inquiry: Report

Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Tuesday, September 12th. The Republican-controlled House returns to Capitol Hill today with not a lot of time to hammer out a new budget. And now new reporting suggests the GOP majority seems to be more focused on launching an impeachment inquiry into President Biden than preventing a shutdown of the federal government. Well, well, well, lots of luck, fellas. Nothing's changed. Nothing's changed. And way to play right into swing voters' worst instincts about you.

Ding, ding, ding. OK, check. We have a loser. OK. Plus, Russian President Vladimir Putin is meeting today with another dictator in an effort to secure more supplies for his military. Speaking of losing. Fantastic. Yes. Also this morning. Hashtag losing. We're doing so bad. Our military sucks so bad. We have to ask North Korea for their help. Also this morning, that's Russia. We have two Republican presidential candidates joining us. Former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson and former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie will be our guests this morning.

Along with Joe, Willie and me, we have the host of Way Too Early, White House Bureau Chief of Politico, Jonathan Lemire. U.S. special correspondent for BBC News, Katty Kaye, is back with us. Pulitzer Prize winning columnist and associate editor of Washington Post, Eugene Robinson. And senior columnist at the Daily Beast, Matt Lewis, is with us this morning. Good to have you all. You know, Willie. Feels like school's back when when I was growing up in upstate New York back in the late 70s, I'd sit and listen to AM radio all night and I'd listen to

W.A.B.C., George Michael in New York City. Sure. I listened. I'd listen. C.K.L.W. Just I was in upstate New York, so I could I could get any. I could get the East Coast. I could get the Midwest. But it was a wonderful life, but it was really cold there. And it would be, you know, dark early. Dark like at 3. Cold, dark at like 3, 3.30, 4. A lot of track meets there. You know, they would do weather. It would be like, you know, minus 12 degrees.

And, you know, every time they got sad. Wait, are me, are Katty and I matching? I don't know. I'm telling a story and Willie wanted me to finish. We'll do that afterwards. Okay. So anyway, Willie. So it'd be like minus 12.

Okay. And I'd be depressed up there in Big Flats, New York. We're living in the coldest place on earth. And then I get my radio dial and I always go to WLS and it always feel better. Because it's not minus 20 degrees in Chicago. I said, well, it could be worse, right? Well, as a lifelong Atlanta Falcons fan, every time I hit the depths of despair, I would say at least, at least.

God, this is a long windup. I just want to know if Caddy and I are matching. Go ahead. I'm not a New York Jets fan. The most Jets thing ever happened to the New York Jets. And that's like saying the most Mets thing ever happened to the New York Mets. This is like seriously being sent straight to hell. And the devil says, no, no, no, no, no.

There's actually a place below here you've never heard of. And we're going to send you down there. But no, it's like the jetsiest thing ever happened last night a tragedy for their franchise quarterback and yet somehow some way a miracle finish at the end just an absolute gut punch for new york jets fans now i say this as a new york giants. It was brutal to watch last night. So they get Aaron Rodgers in the offseason from the Packers. Huge trade acquisition.

Signed him to a big two-year contract last month. And he's going to save the franchise. They haven't been to the Super Bowl since 1968. He's going to change all that. They've got a good defense. They like their head coach. Four plays. Four plays into his first game with the

New York Jets last night against the Bills. He goes down with an Achilles injury. Likely, most people believe he'll have an MRI today out for the season. Done. And they're right back where they started with Zach Wilson, the number one draft pick of a couple of years ago, who they gave up on and brought in Rodgers. He's under center now they did win the game because their defense is excellent and they had a walk off punt return touchdown in overtime to win the game but completely completely overshadowed by the loss of Aaron Rodgers who we don't know for sure but it's an Achilles we all know what that means and likely out for the season, Jonathan Lemire. I will say, Jonathan Lemire, their defense looked great.

Their running game, Hill, looked good. They've got a good running attack. And they actually, for the first time in quite some time, looks like the Jets have a pretty good all-around team. They do. And they were one piece away. And that one piece was Aaron Rodgers, and that piece is gone. They surely will try to trade for a veteran quarterback as the year goes on. But no one, Aaron Rodgers is a future Hall of Famer,

even though his play has slipped a little bit the last couple years. He was going to be the franchise, and this is it. The Jets have become a cursed, tortured franchise for decades. And there was more expectation and hype about last night and about the start of this season than perhaps any year in franchise history. With the one possible exception of 1999, where they were considered a Super Bowl favorite then, too. And Vinny Testaverde, their star quarterback in the first game of the season tore his achilles tendon it's the exact same injury it is devastating and we'll find out later today but head coach robert salas said after the game last night they did believe that it was an achilles which would end his season and one wonders aaron rogers who turns 40

later this year whether we'll ever see him on a football field again that can't be ruled out either just an utter gut punch for the fan base of gang yeah he turns 40 in a couple of months that was he went down and he went uh-oh rolled his ankle and then when he got up and sat back down a guy who doesn't get injured a lot who doesn't like to come out of games he knew something something was up there joe and he sat down and he's carted off. He's in a boot, and we expect to hear today after that MRI that the news is not good for Aaron Rodgers and for those Jets fans who've been suffering only since

1968. Only since 68. Only since Joe Willie took him to the 69 Super Bowl and won in spectacular fashion. This Mika always reminds me, 16-7 over the Baltimore Colts. Speaking of fashion,

the second pressing question here is not just where did I listen to AM radio growing up in the 70s, but do Mika and Cady match? Yes, because you bought me this dress and then I texted her and told her to buy the same dress.

She got a different color. There we go. Yes, because you bought me this dress and then I texted her and told her to buy the same dress. Oh. Yep. She got a different color. No. There we go. Scanlon Theater. No. Mika, I've got the same color.

It's just the lighting in this studio is not quite as beautiful as the lighting in your studio, perhaps. Whoa. So you'll see the difference. That looks really different. I know. It looks really. But I promise. I swear to God, it's exactly the same dress. They only do it in this blue. There you go. There we go. Okay. Well, match day. I know, but I swear to God, it's exactly the same dress. They only do it in this blue.

There you go. There we go. Well, match day. I like it. Match day. And on to the news on match day. New polling showing a major drop in support for former President Donald Trump in Iowa. Yet no other single candidate is filling the void. In the latest Emerson College survey out this morning, 49 percent

of likely caucus voters say Trump is their pick for 2024, down 13 points since May. The former president still leads Florida Governor Ron DeSantis by 35 points. The governor has also seen his support fall six points since earlier this year. South Carolina Senator Tim Scott, former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley, entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy and North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum all have gained support since May, but they are still in single digits. And Trump's still in the lead in a huge way. You look at the trends. It's not a good way. You know, again, Gene Robinson, we have to keep saying it because, well, it's true. It looks like Trump is a dominant figure. Looks like he's going to win this thing.

It is still really early. Again, John McCain at this point in 2007 was on his way out. We were talking about Rudy Giuliani going up against Hillary Clinton. Republicans still have several months to figure out whether they want to vote for their nominee, a guy who will probably be convicted by the convention, a guy who stole nuclear secrets, a guy who stole secret war plans to Iran. He says so. He says so, right? A guy who stole a military assessment to show what America's weaknesses weaknesses was a guy who's been called a rapist by a New York judge and guilty and liable for sexual assault by a jury of his own peers. A guy who's again, you just go down the line. If Republicans still have a little bit of time to figure out if this is who they want representing them moving forward. And, you know, I Trump has to be the favorite.

I still don't think it's a slam dunk because there's a lot of ground to cover between now and then. And it doesn't get any better for Donald Trump. No, it shouldn't get any better for him. At some point, he may be, you know, the candidate. People will be asked to vote for somebody who's actually at that moment on trial. So, again, what does what does that do to his vote? It's it's unclear. So, yes, it is. It is definitely still early. It's not as early as it was.

You know, I mean, you know, these months do sort of tick down and we're going to get to those Iowa caucuses and we're going to see whether the support actually translates into into into votes or caucus votes, whatever they do at those caucuses. And look, Donald Trump is still the favorite, and you almost call him the prohibitive favorite to be the Republican candidate. But what I'm really interested in is DeSantis' fall, the rise slightly from the low single digits to the slightly higher single digits of people like Nikki Haley and Tim Scott. And what happens if one of them sort of vaults ahead of DeSantis and starts getting a serious look at the potential alternative to Trump? Is that a possibility? Is it possible that they look at them and find them more, you know, one of them more attractive as a potential alternative to Trump than DeSantis, who obviously is not gaining traction? So we'll see. But right now, where's the smart money going contender, who's going to be the contender. Trump's very fortunate that his number two guy is Ron DeSantis, a guy who has just run a terrible campaign because the guy's a terrible candidate. He has all the social grace and touch and feel of Elon Musk. He's just and people have been telling me that even before his campaign, they said, listen, listen, these fundraisers, they want to give him money.

They obviously haven't spent five minutes alone with him in a room. He's just not good with people. I heard it over and over and over again. And you can see it. And then it seems every week there's another huge Republican donor who's saying, listen, I'm conservative, but this guy's a nut. His six week abortion ban. No way. And so they're talking about pulling their money from him. So part of the problem is right now is you've got a you've got a field that has a really weak

number two who's going to keep falling just like Trump is falling. The question is, can anybody step up to be Donald Trump's main challenger? It seems to be the same question we were asking in 2016. We're asking the same question eight years later. And the gulf this time is so wide between Donald Trump and the rest of the field that Nikki Haley, for example, has a good debate a couple of weeks ago, does well. Establishment Republicans say, oh, I think maybe it's her and not Ron DeSantis. She seems to be the adult in the room on that stage. And she's still in mid to high single digits, depending on the poll you look at. So it's a wide lead, Matt Lewis, and not clear that any of this legal trouble that Donald Trump finds himself in that we're going to talk about more here in just a minute does anything to his detriment.

Yes, he's down a little bit in Iowa, but his lead has gone from, what, 42 to 35. So the opposition scored a late touchdown to cut the lead to 35. Do you see anything that cuts into his advantage here in this field? No. I mean, obviously, I think if you're a betting person, you bet on Trump. I think what you you can start to imagine a scenario. That's what you have to do. You have to use your imagination to imagine a scenario where Trump loses. And I think what you would have to imagine is, number one, there's not an election. There's not a primary election day. It's not a national election. And so you have these fluky states like Iowa and New Hampshire. And the first step is

Trump has to lose them both. Right. That could happen again. These are fluky states. Iowa goes for people like Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum and Ted Cruz. That could happen again. The fact that Donald Trump is currently leading there by wide margins is important. But I don't think it's I've seen it leads like that collapse in Iowa. So that's step one. Then we move to New Hampshire, another fluky state. Is it possible that New Hampshire decides to deliver a blow to Donald Trump? And then it becomes dynamic. And that's that is the hope. And again, I think this is borderline fantastical. But then the electability thing becomes a question. Right now, Republicans don't care about electability. They think anybody can beat Joe Biden and they really like Donald Trump.

But what happens if Trump were to lose those first two states? And then we have like, well, he's going to have to be in trial. He's going to be in court. You have to really use your imagination. But there is a scenario, albeit a long shot, where this collapses and Donald Trump is not the nominee. For now, it's not collapsing. Maybe that changes when he's sitting inside a courtroom or the heat is turned up even further. We'll see. Meanwhile, in Washington, the House of Representatives returns to the Capitol today with a busy to do list. Speaker

Kevin McCarthy, though, reportedly set to endorse an impeachment inquiry into President Biden. Punchbowl News is reporting this morning, quote, McCarthy plans to tell House Republicans in a closed meeting this week that launching an impeachment inquiry is the logical next step in the GOP's probes of the president and his son, Hunter Biden. McCarthy and the House leadership have a closed door session scheduled for Thursday morning, reportedly to receive an update on the investigations led by House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Jordan and House Oversight Committee Chair James Comer. That's according to Punchbowl News that writes, quote, McCarthy plans to say the two chairs have

uncovered enough information that necessitates the House formalizing the impeachment inquiry in order to obtain the Biden's bank records and other documents. So Jonathan Lemire, it looks like he's going to do it. He's been flirting with it, talking about it all summer. According to Punch Bowl News this morning, he is going to authorize an impeachment inquiry against President Biden. That inquiry so far has shown no connection to President Biden. It's been all about Hunter Biden. I guess the hope is if they open it up with more documents, perhaps they'll find something. But as James Comer said himself, a lot of smoke here, no fire yet. Yeah.

And so far, they've found no evidence. So we should just state that plainly at the top. The House comes back today. McCarthy spent the last six weeks vacillating as to whether or not he wanted to do this. But the pressure has mounted. The pressure from former President Trump, the pressure from members of the House Freedom Caucus in the far right. In fact, Matt Gaetz is supposed to deliver a speech on the House floor today, basically

denouncing McCarthy and threatening his removal or subtly suggesting that he could go. There's a sense here that McCarthy is trying to placate those forces that he who are unhappy with him about the debt ceiling deal, who are unhappy with him about the spending bills he needs to get done here to keep the government open, and that he trying to throw them a bone, if you will, by suggesting we'll go down this road to impeachment inquiry. And, Caddy, there's a sense that people I talk to in Washington, that if they go impeachment inquiry, well, they're going to go impeachment. That will happen. The White House is preparing. They don't want that. They think it will be time consuming and terrible. That said, they also think it will politically backfire on the Republicans. But it's not clear that McCarthy can actually get enough votes to make any of this

happen. Republicans, moderate Republicans who won Biden districts are really expressing worry about this. What do you think? Can McCarthy get there? Well, when you've only got, you know, a five vote margin, you need every single vote you can get. And if you are a Republican who's up for reelection in 2024 in one of those districts in the country that Joe Biden won, and you've got to appeal to people in your district who are more centrist, more independent, who think that this is a waste of time in terms of government resources, then it's going to be difficult. And of course, you know that the war room that the White House has set up is going to do everything they can to paint this and target those specific voters to say, look, this is what the ultra MAGA Republican Party is now doing with your time and money up on Capitol

Hill and there is nothing here and they're wasting your time. And so that would perhaps swing the House back to the Democrats. That's what they would hope. But, you know, when these things are opened, you just don't know where they're going to go. Right. And they do get bored. And it is a risk for the White House, which is why they are going to put all the resources they can into this war room. And they've been preparing to tackle this. Gene Robinson, though, does it not just play into swing voters, disgruntled Republicans, independents' worst instincts about the crackpots that are in the House of Representatives,

mainly in the back bench or back bench, but the crackpots who control Kevin McCarthy. You know, you're talking about like January. Yeah. So if you're a swing voter and you didn't vote for Donald Trump in 2000, but let's say in 22, you decided to vote for a Republican in your district for a little bit of balance. You've got a House that Republicans that have stood in the way of January 6th investigations. You've got House Republicans that are talking about getting rid of our are going in and calling the January 6th rioters and insurrectionists who ultimately responsible for the killing of four cops. Ask their families. They'll tell you that. You're calling them political prisoners and calling for their amnesty. You're calling for

the defunding of the Ukrainians to let Vladimir Putin roll in and do whatever he wants to do. You're talking about just the craziest stuff. And now you're talking about impeaching Joe Biden just because the crackpots on the back bench are calling for it. Again, as Gaddy said, those Republicans that won seats that Biden also won, they've got to know if this goes down, Republicans will not be in charge of the House next session. Yeah, I think this is an impeachment inquiry will be basically curtains for those Republicans who won in districts that Joe Biden won, I think. And that's that's the balance of the House. If they go down, then the House goes back to Democratic hands full stop. Look, this makes the MAGA base happy.

This perhaps keeps Kevin McCarthy's job for a while. But it turns off independents, and it's going to make Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents rally around Joe Biden. It's just—it's going to do that. It's going to be a kind of jolt of energy for the Democratic side, energy fueled by outrage that, in the long run, is not good for the Republican Party and its prospects, I believe. But it looks like he's going to go there. And I think he's going to go there because I think he thinks he's out of a job if he doesn't. Yeah. And you look again, Mika, the question is, how much can these Republican swing voters' independence take?

You've got January the 6th. You've got the apologies for January the 6th by the Republican House. You've got them talking about these people that killed cops, calling them, again, if you don't think so, ask the family, okay? Ask the family who killed the cops, and they'll tell you it was the rioters

that Donald Trump whipped into a frenzy and sent to the Capitol. You've got abortion, an issue that's going to be again, once again, as it was in 22, a huge issue in 24. You've got a federal judge declaring Donald Trump to be a rapist by any standard definition of how we and institutions define rape. And now you've got an impeachment simply because the craziest people on the back benches in the House of Representatives are demanding that Kevin McCarthy call for an impeachment. Again, this is this is the White House's dream. Right. It's very confusing if you are a real Republican where you go, because this is not the Republican Party as we once knew it.

Matt, you have a new column in The Daily Beast entitled Kevin McCarthy's only weapon is his willingness to be humiliated. And in it, you write in part, quote, since taking over as Speaker of the House in January, McCarthy has been surprisingly resilient and effective. But with Congress back from August recess, McCarthy now faces what may be the greatest challenge of his political career. The Republican-led House has to pass a spending package between now and September 30th or risk a government shutdown. The GOP's right flank wants cuts and concessions that GOP moderates and mainstream conservatives view as unachievable, ill-advised and politically toxic. When these demands are predictably not met, it seems more likely than not that Freedom Caucus members who seem to be itching for a fight could bring a motion to vacate the chair, which would force a vote on removing McCarthy.

Where does the Biden White House go to send the check? Thank you for them doing that. As long as McCarthy is willing to endure the humiliation in pursuit of his only true goal, remaining speaker, he will likely survive. Again, at some point, the government must be funded. But how and when? We are left with more questions than answers. The most likely scenario seems to be a huge S show that is embarrassing for McCarthy and the GOP, but ultimately pointless in the grand scheme of things. But that's just my best guess. Buckle up. We're about to enter into the land of the unknown like we we already haven't in so many ways. Yeah, we haven't. But Matt, again, though, again, this is this is this is a group of people who, like Donald Trump, are just thinking five minutes ahead.

They have no grand plan. They have no grand strategy. Five seconds ahead. Shutting down the federal government is going to be just like, you know, what we heard about the debt ceiling. Everybody was screaming and yelling about the debt ceiling. They said they're going to fund it. They always fund it.

They never let America default on their debt. And we've already been through. I've been through in 1995, 96, I think a government shutdown. I can just tell you it doesn't end well. But again, they're too stupid, I guess, to think more than five minutes ahead of time. I know there are a lot of good Republicans, like, you know, in the House caucus. It's going, man, are they really that desperate to be in the minority again? But again, you go down the list of things. I mean, I did that list. I didn't even talk about Donald Trump stealing nuclear secrets. I didn't even talk about Donald Trump stealing secret war

plans to invade Iran. I didn't even talk about Donald Trump stealing, stealing an assessment to show America's weaknesses, then add abortion on top of that, then add all of the chaos of January 6th on top of that, and then add all these people in the House that Kevin McCarthy say he basically owes his speakership to saying that the people that killed cops are political prisoners. The people whose family think they killed cops are political prisoners. What does that do to a Republican in a swing district in New York that won in a district that Joe Biden won in? Yeah, and that's what Kevin McCarthy is contending with. Right. He's got basically a five seat House majority.

And you have many, many kind of right-wing Freedom Caucus Republicans that, and you have to have pretty much all of them. You can lose, if you're Kevin McCarthy, you can lose four out of your entire Republican conference. And so he is really being squeezed, and they're going to force him to jump through hoops. And I think for me, the real question is the Republicans, the Freedom Caucus, the folks on the right who right now are pushing Kevin McCarthy. Are they are they negotiate? Is this a negotiation? Is this an opening bid? Because it's not just impeachment that they want of Joe Biden, but they want things like

they want to make sure that we're not giving Ukraine a blank check. What does that mean? I'm not sure. Do they want to end Ukraine funding or do they just want to do a better job of keeping track of the funds? They want to do things like stopping the weaponization of the Department of Justice and the FBI. Do they want to defund the quote unquote deep state? Or is this just a negotiation to cut spending to return spending levels back to 2022? If it's the latter,

if this is just a negotiation, I mean, it's possible that Kevin McCarthy can work out a deal. I'm just not sure that's the case. So I think it is much more likely than not that we have a government shutdown. And I think that it is increasingly likely that Kevin McCarthy is either going to have to do something such as launch this impeachment probe and probably give more concessions, or that there will be a motion to vacate and he will have to stand again for the good news for McCarthy, as I noted in the piece, is that he is shameless. So I think he managed to to endure humiliation in January and become speaker. He could possibly pull off the same maneuver here. But again, this is a lot of wasted energy. It's the Republican Party making trouble for themselves.

And I just don't see an exit plan whereby they end up better off than they are today. There is there's never an exit plan. And Willie, the thing is, if you're Kevin McCarthy, let me let me be very careful how I say this. I would not use initials, but I would say F.A. and F.O. And you guys can figure that out at home. Go ahead, vacate the chair. I'm fine with that. You know what I'm going to do?

I'm going to just be outside watching a baseball game while you guys try to find somebody that can get 218 votes because you're not going to be able to find it. Come get me in a couple of days when you find out what a fool you've made of yourself. I mean, that's the thing. There is no backup plan. They already tried to find somebody to take Kevin McCarthy's place. And the mainstream Republicans in that caucus, they're not going to say, oh, let's get some crazy son of a bitch to drive us over a cliff. And you could ask. No, no, nobody's going to get 218, 218 votes for that. So Kevin McCarthy should stop being a coward and tell them what I just said,

but I can't really say on TV. Okay. Well, they tried that. I didn't say it. Remember the votes again and again and again, and the extreme right Republicans and the MAGA Republicans, they were going to put somebody else in there who was never going to get to 218. But

the question that Matt kind of gets at and which is interesting to me is where does this unhealthy relationship end? So if this small group of Republicans says you owe us your job, Kevin McCarthy, we can take you out just as fast as we put you in there. Give us this. Where do those list of demands end? We want an impeachment inquiry. He goes, OK, I guess I don't want to be run out of my job. You can have that. They could ask for anything theoretically because they can say we'll get rid of you just as quickly as we put you in there. All right. Senior columnist at The Daily Beast, Matt Lewis, thank you very much for generating a great conversation this morning. And still ahead on Morning Joe, the latest on Donald Trump's growing legal troubles

as his attorneys launch a new effort to get the judge in his federal elections case to step aside. Yeah, and I'm going to build a rocket ship to Mars. Plus, search and rescue efforts continue in Morocco this morning following a devastating earthquake there. It comes amid new questions about why the country appears reluctant to accept foreign aid. It's such a tragedy. And yet they're only letting three or four countries in to help out. They need all hands in Morocco right now. The suffering is just terrible there.

Also ahead, Minority Leader Mitch McConnell urges skeptical Republicans to continue supporting Ukraine amid the ongoing war with Russia. We'll show his new remarks from the Senate floor. Also this morning, we'll be joined by two Republican presidential candidates, former Governors Chris Christie and Asa Hutchinson. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. Hey, yeah. Won't back down. We're about two weeks away from the next Republican primary debate, and some candidates are still trying to meet the RNC's requirements.

Former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson is one of them. He's now looking to boost his standings, expanding the states he will travel to in the coming weeks. That includes North Carolina, Georgia and Texas. And joining us now, Republican presidential candidate, former governor of Arkansas, Asa Hutchinson. Good to have you on the show this morning. Governor, thanks so much for being with us. Behind you, the United States Capitol. You have served well. You've served there. I want to ask you about Washington, D.C. right now. There's a little off. There's a little off. Is this off topic? Well, it's off political topic. It's not about Trump and it's not about getting into the next debate. It's actually about an issue and it's crime. And I know Republicans have loved to say crime only happens in Democratic cities. That's not true. It happens in, you know, the worst crime cities were in Louisiana and Mississippi. It happens in Florida, Jacksonville, et cetera, et cetera. But I want to talk specifically about the city that you're in right now. Headline in the Wall Street, in the Washington Post, a shaken Washington copes with surging

violence. This is not normal. The Washington Times talking about all the people, the young kids that have come to work on the Hill that are getting beaten up, stabbed, having having their their their, you know, getting assaulted, getting robbed. House committee is actually having to warn staffers about crime rate soaring in the nation's capital. Governor, governor, it's not just the big Democratic cities that are out of control. You got Monroe, Louisiana. You got, you know, Bessemer, Alabama. You got Jacksonville, Florida out of control. What do we do?

What do we do to turn crime rates back to where they've been since 2020, back to where they were in 2019? How do we get there? Well, and you're right on the importance of this issue. I was in Georgia yesterday and they're not asking me about Trump's legal issues. A single mom was asking me about what does it take to give my child a safe environment? And that's what they are concerned about in the schools, but also on our streets. And it's not just a big city issue because we see fentanyl in our rural cities. We see the challenge of the smash and grab that is primarily

in the inner cities. But we're watching it from across the country. And we're saying this does not represent the best of America. It's not the rule of law. And there's a simple solution here, and that is enforce the law. And whenever we see a flagrant disregard of the law, whether it is violence and there's not a follow up enforcement and a toughness there, then you're going to see this continue because they're just seeing a disrespect and it's close to anarchy. And it starts with the president and his leadership and saying we're not going to be funding places that are not enforcing the law. That is critical that we do this. And you're right on target on the importance of this issue. Well, there's a poll quote, this Washington Post article that says from from from a person whose neighborhood is wracked with crime, there are no consequences. these scenes of people crash, breaking in to shopping malls and stores and just stealing

thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars of property from from the owners of those stores are people in New York City that can't even go to a right aid and and get toothpaste because it's all boxed up. I'm sorry. I understand. And I say everybody wants to talk about the underlying issues. And I want to talk about the underlying issues that lead to poverty generally. But we got to first make the streets safe while we're doing that. We and for the people that say say, for the people who say

cops don't keep us safe, those are people that live in rich areas or upper middle class areas. You talk to working class people and you talk to the truly disadvantaged. They'll say, I want more cops on the street to keep my kids safe when they're walking to school. And I want more cops in my kids to keep my kids safe when they're walking to school. And I want more cops in my kids school to keep them safe. Absolutely. And that is why, as governor of Arkansas, we gave our men and women in blue a five thousand dollar stipend just to say we appreciate you. We raise the pay of our state police because it is critical for the recruitment of our police officers and the showcase that we're backing them up. And then whenever you're talking about the consequences, that is absolutely correct. And the consequences should not come two years down the road. The

consequences should not come while they're released on parole and they commit another crime and then they're arrested and put in jail. And then it's another year before they're brought to justice. We have to reform our justice system. I know a lot of attention's at the federal level, but we need to make our system of justice work at every level so that it is meaningful. There are consequences and law enforcement has to understand that we're going to back them up if they enforce the law. And whenever you see our businesses that are pulling out of so many cities because of the smash and grab the the very, and they have to tell their employees, they shouldn't be telling their employees this, but saying no consequences. You don't chase them.

You don't try to arrest them. There has to be those consequences. And it starts at our local communities and the public needs to stand up and say this is unacceptable in our community. This nation is founded on the rule of law. And as a former federal prosecutor, I see the importance of that every day. Governor, good morning. It's great to have you back on the show. An awful lot of Republicans happy that you're in the race speaking truth every time you step out, particularly about Donald Trump. But they're worried about how much longer you may be around. There's another debate coming up in two weeks at the Reagan Library out in California.

Are you confident you'll be on that stage? Well, I am. But the key is getting good polling information. You know, I've made one national poll at three percent. I need to have another one. That's why we're working hard on this. But you cited the Emerson poll in Iowa. That does not even qualify as an RNC eligible poll to be considered. And then the fact that they did not put my name in that poll makes it a little bit difficult. And so we're looking for good polling numbers across the country. I'm confident that we're going to make that three percent requirement. We're working very hard on that. So if somebody calls you and ask about the presidential race, say Asa Hutchinson.

All right. Fair enough. So, Governor, let me ask you, you are no one doubts your conservative credentials. You're the governor of Arkansas, of course. But you've been you and Chris Christie, two sort of lonely men in your criticism in this primary of Donald Trump. What are your friends in Arkansas who may be like you and have supported you in the past, but are supporting Donald Trump? What do they say to you at this point, given everything that we detail every morning on this

show, given the list of alleged crimes Joe has been outlining this morning? What do they say to you as someone who know they know that you are a conservative in a way that Donald Trump is not? Why are they sticking with him? And what do you tell them? Well, this is a gradual process. It is the most unpredictable political environment we've seen. And everybody compares it to eight years ago, 2016. We had a lot of candidates. And how in the world can the poll numbers change today? And the answer is we've never seen anything like this. And and I sense that I think everybody senses, particularly in places like Iowa, that you're going to see those numbers change, but it's going to be late breaking.

It'll probably be late fall. They're not going to decide quickly. And so Donald Trump is former president. And so he gets the default position. But as soon as they figure out where they're not going to decide quickly. And so Donald Trump is former president. And so he gets the default position. But as soon as they figure out where they're going to go, you'll see those numbers change. But the key is that you have candidates like myself that speak the truth, not only just that we can't win up and down the ticket with Donald Trump leading the ticket, but also the substance of the allegations against him, whether it's protecting national security or whether it is protecting our democracy. Whatever happens on the legal side, the underlying facts do not reflect who we need to have as a commander in chief. That's the message. That's the truth. That'll happen on the debate stage.

And it also happens in a recurring fashion when I'm out on the stump talking to voters. Gene Robinson, you've got the next question for Asa. I just want to ask you really quickly, in Washington, the story, obviously, in your newspaper, The Washington Post, about rising crime rates. I know you've been sent all over the world a lot of different assignments, but I think you were in D.C. in the early 90s, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Crazy time in the early 90s in D.C., and even through the mid-90s, things started to kind of clean up. In the later 90s, crime started to go down some. Can you just really quickly tell me, I know you've seen this Washington Post story. What's going on in D.C.?

Well, first of all, if you look at the numbers, we are not where we were in the late 80s, early 90s when homicides were much higher. All the crime figures were much higher. And the city was very different, but there were neighborhoods that you didn't go to, there were other neighborhoods that you didn't walk through, you ran through if you were there. So, you know, just in perspective, we're not there. But we're also not where we were 10 years ago. We're not where we were five years ago in terms of when Washington, D.C. was felt like a very, very safe city. I think there are a lot of factors involved in what is happening, but it's real. It is happening, but it's real. It is happening. You saw those numbers that we flashed up earlier,

and those numbers are not going in the wrong way as rapidly in every city as they are here in Washington. So we have problems here. That's a problem, Gene. I mean, the thing is that actually, as the Washington Post said this morning, Washington, D.C. seems to be defying the current trend where crime is gradually, it's been going down post-COVID-21, down a little more in 22, down a little more to 23. Washington's just the opposite. Homicides up by 28% this year. Robbery up by 67%. Yeah. You know, as an old city editor, you know, the homicide figure is not always necessarily related to those other figures.

It seems to have a life of its own. Those other figures, though, the robberies and burglaries and carjackings, which people are afraid of now, you know, this is a genuine issue, and it needs to be tackled by city officials. And they need to be doing more, because people don't feel safe the way they did a few years ago. I do have a question for Governor Hutchinson. You know, we were talking earlier about what's happening on Capitol Hill, and Republicans in the House are talking about an impeachment inquiry. They're talking about a government shutdown. Is that what the Republican Party needs to be about right now?

What would your advice for them and for Kevin McCarthy be as they contemplate, you know, jumping off these successive cliffs? Well, I would suggest that impeachment, which I went through during President Clinton's administration, this is something that should be rare. It should not be routine. It should not be going after a disagreement in policy. It has to be serious wrongdoing. And it's generally simply a distraction.

Now, there's a lot of unanswered questions in reference to some of the financial dealings of President Biden, particularly back whenever he was prior to being president. But you've not seen anything that merits a full-blown impeachment. Let's get more answers. They're making an inquiry on that. But the answer is what people are talking about is the economy. It's the price of gas at the pump. It's our energy supply in the United States. They are talking about President Biden breaking the leases in the northern slope of Alaska. These are the serious issues. And the public gets very confused about all the machinations in Washington, D.C. and in Congress. They just want them to get the job done. Let's get the budget passed. Let's make sure that we have our services funding,

but also get a control on spending because they know that's a root cause of inflation. That's what Congress needs to focus on, simply getting those things done. And everything else is distraction from what's on the public's mind. Governor Hutchinson, a major topic of debate as the House comes back today and they start discussions about funding the government to keep the lights on or is money heading to Ukraine. And Senator, Senate Minority Leader McConnell the other day gave pretty stern warning to his fellow Republicans saying we need to keep doing this and also communicated to the White House that this might be the last time I can wrangle enough support to get significant money to Kiev. Where do you stand on this? How concerned are you that fellow Republicans may decide, you know what, we can't keep funding this war?

Well, it's a serious point of divide within the Republican primary voters, the Republican base. I support Ukraine. My criticism of the Biden administration is they've moved too slow and it's diminished the opportunity for Ukraine to win. We haven't got them Abram tanks yet. We still have looking for training on the F-16 fighters. And so decisions have to be made. They have to be implemented in a quicker fashion because they're in a war. We want to support them. We want an end to it.

And I emphasize that it's not a blank check. You've got to have audits. You've got to make sure it's being used in the appropriate way. But we have to support Ukraine. What is missing right now is a good, effective communication to the American public. President Biden is not in a position to sell it very well to America. He should be, but he's not. And it has to be sold. It has to be explained as to what's in our national interest and why this is important and put it in perspective as to how much has been spent and how much Europe is putting in, which we covered in the debate.

We need to do it again. But it takes leadership. I intend to continue to support Ukraine, but obviously we want an end to that over time and not an unending war. We've got to win. Ukraine has to for their own freedom and sovereignty. Republican presidential candidate, former Governor Asa Hutchinson. when Ukraine has to for their own freedom and sovereignty. Republican presidential candidate, former Governor Asa Hutchinson, thank you very much for being on this morning. We'll see you soon. Thank you. And coming up, another Republican presidential candidate joins us at the top of the hour. Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie will be our guest.

Much more Morning Joe straight ahead. Desperate efforts still underway this morning in Morocco, following that 6.8 magnitude earthquake that left more than 2,800 people dead, with that number very likely to rise. NBC News foreign correspondent Matt Bradley has the latest on the devastation and the beginning of a recovery. High in the Atlas Mountains, glimmers of hope. Survivors brought out on stretchers, somehow making it out alive after the most powerful quake to hit Morocco in over a century. This man clutching his two daughters, his other two children were killed. These were the horrifying moments when this massive 6.8 magnitude quake struck Friday night, sending

customers pouring out of a restaurant, buildings crashing down, this man managing to escape just before the roof caved in. Here in the middle of a performance, a wedding band feels this rattling and rushes out. We traveled to one of the hardest hit areas in the countryside. You can smell the death here. Between 90 and 100 people were killed in this village alone, and they're no longer looking for survivors. She says this is her bedroom right here. Four members of Hanan's family were killed in the earthquake. She says everybody was taken out. Right now, they're looking for things.

They're looking for their identity cards and other things they need. In mountain villages like this one, the construction materials are rudimentary. As you can see, faced with a magnitude earthquake like this, they didn't stand a chance. In some cases, the remaining homes are so fragile that aid helicopters caused further damage. Morocco's government is facing criticism over the pace of the response, many struggling to reach remote areas. Batul lost seven members of her family and her home, but she still has an abundance of kindness.

She insisted on making us tea. But her son, Abdul Karim, fears for the future. He tells us without more help from the government, this whole village may simply disappear. He says that all they're asking for is that the government rebuilds their homes and gives them food. That's it. They're not asking for much. Matt Bradley reporting from Morocco. Meanwhile, there are new questions about the country's apparent reluctance to accept foreign aid after this disaster. The United States, France,

Germany, Italy, several other countries all have offered to provide help in the wake of that earthquake. Morocco's interior ministry said on Sunday it would initially accept search and rescue teams only from Great Britain, Qatar, Spain and the United Arab Emirates, which it called, quote, friendly countries. Despite offers of humanitarian technical assistance, Morocco has appeared slow to accept that help as well. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said on Sunday, quote, We await word from the Moroccan government to find out how we can help and where we can help. So, Joe, the U.N. has said the same thing. We are standing by. We can help. This is what we do. And thus far, anyway, Morocco has said no thanks. It is just crazy. The people are suffering. It's such a great degree. You think they would take help wherever they could get it. Even, I mean, countries that consider the United States an enemy have allowed us in in the past to help them out with recovery efforts.

Katty K, any insight here on why Morocco would be keeping the United Nations, the United States and other countries that have the ability, the power, the money, the resources to bring help to end the suffering there. Yeah, it's very hard to understand. I was actually up in these mountains. I'm looking at these pictures. My sister lives in Marrakesh. Fortunately, she is fine. Three children, sadly, in her village were killed by the quake. And we were up in the mountains. They are very remote, these areas, and they need all the help that they can get. Morocco is a kingdom. It's a very centralized government that revolves around the mountains. They are very remote, these areas, and they need all the help that they can get. Morocco is a kingdom. It's a very centralized government that revolves around the king. Everything kind of has to go through the court. I don't know if that accounts for the slow pace of determining who they're going to accept or not. It's certainly not, as far as I know,

that Morocco sees the United States in any way as an enemy country. The relationship is actually good between the two countries. It just sounds to me like this is kind of bureaucracy. They may perhaps they don't want to give the impression that they can't do this themselves. But it's clear that when you have a disaster like this, you need the help. And what's so sad is you need it fast. You need it in the first few days. And we've already passed that window now. We're going to be following this story. We're also following at two minutes past the top of the hour, a number of developments around the criminal cases against Donald Trump. In a filing yesterday, lawyers for the former president asked the judge overseeing the trial, Tanya Chutkan, to recuse herself. His attorneys claim she's biased and should step aside because of her previous comments in relation to the former president and the January 6th Capitol attack. Ultimately,

the judge, Chutkan herself, is the only person who will rule on the motion for recusal. Meanwhile, Trump's attorneys in the Georgia election interference case asked the judge to throw out the many criminal charges against him. The push to dismiss the charges comes as the former president's legal team has indicated he mayant in the Georgia case, filed an emergency motion asking a judge to pause an order denying his attempt to move his criminal case to federal court.