Morning Joe - Morning Joe 9/25/23

Episode Date: September 25, 2023

Hollywood screenwriters and studios reach tentative deal to resolve strike

The arsonists have lit their house on fire, they're whining about their house burning, they're going to want credit for putting the fire out, and then they're going to set up a GoFundMe to get paid for what happened. This is really disingenuous. Anyone who says that we're going to finish all 12 appropriations bills between now and next Saturday is absolutely hallucinating. They say, let's pass the CR, continued resolution, so that we can stop passing CRs. That's like telling a crack addict, we're going to give you more crack to keep you off a crack. It doesn't work, ma'am. Two House Republicans with very pessimistic views on whether Congress can prevent a government shutdown.

We'll have the latest from Capitol Hill and the contentious negotiations there, as lawmakers have now less than a week to get a deal done. Meanwhile, Democrats are cautiously commenting on the corruption allegations against Senator Bob Menendez after federal agents say they found piles of cash bribes hidden in his home. How cautious do you have to be on this one? I mean, come on. How cautious do you have to be?

John Fetterman's saying he needs to get out. Nobody else is. Well, that's a fair assessment so far. Plus new polling on a hypothetical Biden-Trump rematch, including how voters feel about Biden's age and Trump's legal issues. Also ahead, an update on the autoworker strike, which is expanding to more sites. It comes as the union is expected to get high profile supporters on the picket lines this week. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe.

It's Monday, everybody. Time to get up. September 25th. And for our Jewish friends observing Yom Kippur, we wish you a meaningful and easy fast. And with us this morning, we have U.S. special correspondent for BBC News, Katty Kay, president of the National Action Network and host of MSNBC's Politics Nation, Reverend Al Sharpton, and founder of the conservative website, The Bulwark, Charlie Sykes. And before we get to politics, we have some developing news overnight. After nearly 150 days, a significant turning point in the months-long writer's strike that brought Hollywood to a halt. As of yesterday, major screenwriters and major studios have reached a tentative deal to end the historic strike. That's according to the Writers Guild of America, which is closer to the finish line after having

five straight days of negotiations. This new development suspended picketing immediately. Details of the agreement are expected to be announced in the next few days. At that point, the Guild will vote on whether to accept the deal, which includes higher base compensation, increased royalties and stricter protections against artificial intelligence. That was a real sticking point. The first batch of shows you'll likely see back on the air are the daytime and late night programs. The move would relieve some pressure on hosts who were criticized for announcing plans of a return before these strikes were resolved. As for Hollywood actors, they're still on the picket lines and will continue their strike until their union, SAG-AFTRA, reaches a deal with studios. So we'll be following that as well. Yes. But we have some major new polling in politics this morning. Well, some crazy new polling. Yeah. I mean,

10 points apart, the two polls that are out. So, yeah, let's talk about the new polling from NBC News shows that President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump are deadlocked in a hypothetical 2024 election matchup. According to the latest survey, both Biden and Trump earned 46% of support in a potential rematch of the 2020 contest. 74% of registered voters say they have major or moderate concerns about the current president's age and mental fitness.

For Trump, who is just three years younger than Biden, that number is 27 points lower at 47 percent. Sixty two percent of voters say they have concerns about Trump's legal problems, but 60 percent say they have concerns about Biden's awareness or involvement in his son's business dealings, which is the subject of an impeachment inquiry in the Republican led house. Then the other new poll, this one from ABC News and The Washington Post, has Trump leading Biden by nine points in a 2024 election matchup. In this survey, the former president leads the current one 51 percent to 42 percent among all adults. The Washington Post noted that this poll is likely an outlier compared to ones taken by

other groups. But it is consistent with an ABC News Washington Post poll of the same question from earlier this year. In this latest poll, 74 percent say Biden is too old for a second term versus 50 percent who say Trump is too old for a second term. And Biden also faces negative ratings on other key issues as well. Just 37 percent approve of his overall job performance compared to 56 who disapprove. Biden's approval is even lower at 30 percent for his handling of the economy and at 20 percent for his handling of the situation at the southern border. Let's bring in White House reporter for The Washington Post, Tyler Pager and NBC News presidential historian Michael Beschloss. Good to have you both this morning. So I'm looking at these polls, Mika. Let's just talk here among ourselves for a second before we bring the guests in.

We've talked about this a good bit. Yeah. Through the years about Joe Biden. And I got sent, I think it was yesterday evening, Mark Halpern's newsletter where there are different takes on it. I want to read you one take. OK. And it's pretty it's pretty consistent from one of I guess one of his experts. So and think about this. I can show you one expert after another mocking and ridiculing Joe Biden,

the Democrats, for their strategy leading up to the 2022 midterm. The mockery for him talking about democracy and abortion was over the top. You should have heard them. And I'm not going to say people's names here. The so-called truth tellers, they made fools of themselves, mocking Democrats and Joe Biden. And as always, there was no blowback for underestimating Biden. They were proven wrong. The irony of people attacking the press for not telling the truth and then willfully being blind to all of their terrible predictions in 2020 and 2022 is pretty thick. People said Biden was dead in the water

after Iowa, after New Hampshire, after Nevada. The open mockery was over the top. The open mockery throughout the 2020 campaign was over the top. The tales of doom on election was over the top. The open mockery throughout the 2020 campaign was over the top. The tale of doom on election night over the top. The tales of doom over the next two years over the top. But no one has ever held accountable for underestimating Joe Biden these past few years. Nobody. And the people that look and I must say that the people that you look to as truth tellers are at the top of that list. They were wrong about Biden then. They are wrong about Biden now. They are wrong about Biden far more than they are right.

From Trumpers to progressives to people who have made a lot of money in podcasts and newsletters being, quote, truth tellers. They have been dead wrong about Biden at the polls and dead wrong about Biden hammering out bipartisan legislation for three straight years. But no accountability because they are truth tellers. And Mika, it's true. I mean, you remember after Iowa? Yeah, he was dead. Remember after New Hampshire? Mocked, ridiculed, dead. After Nevada, there's no way he can come back. He went South Carolina and won his nomination. We heard the same thing. He's too old.

He's living in his basement. He stopped. You can't get out of his basement. He's going to lose. And then election night, oh, well, Trump's going to win this state and that state. Now things wrong. And then progressives, as well as Trumpers, wrong for two years about bipartisan. I'm just telling you. Maybe these polls are right. Well, they're not right. It's not nine, nine points. Morning Joe betting syndicate will take all of your bets right now. Like if you if you want to take the plus nine

on Joe Biden. Yeah. Now, Biden's not going to lose by nine points. This is a close race. And there are warning signs there. I will say, though, I'm a little tired of it. I'm a little tired of three years hearing about how Joe Biden is going to get crushed. He's going to get crushed in 2020. He and the Democrats are going to get crushed in 2022. There's going to be a red wave. There's no way he can pass bipartisan legislation. He passes more than anybody this century. And it just keeps going on and on. There's a bunch of things at play. And to jump on what you're saying, if these truth tellers would say, you know, it doesn't look good. These polls don't look good, but we've been here before.

Let me give some context. Historically, look what happened the last time he was underestimated. And also in terms of his age, look at what President Biden is doing. Go through his schedule. Look at the things that he has accomplished. List them and then talk about a man his age and what he is able to do at his age since age is relative. And as for Donald Trump, I think that there has got to be a point where if you're an organization that works around debating the issues and following the truth, I don't know why there

are extensive interviews with this man when he cannot even admit he lost the election. Like that would be the end of any interview anywhere or it should be. And instead he pontificates and, and, and rolls over people with lies and people continue to put him on as if he is a truth teller. You look at Jonathan, he's not a truth teller. Jonathan Swan and the way that he did it, Savannah Guthrie. There are other people who do it. But at this point, we know. It continues on. And Michael Beschloss, I don't know who's going to win next year. You don't know who's going to win. I do remember when President Teddy Kennedy was 20 points ahead of Jimmy Carter in 1979. I mean, that poll was right.

And of course, President Teddy Kennedy served eight years. No, I mean, it is early. It's not quite as early as it was. But I just want to go back to this Joe Biden underestimation thing because we never go back. Nobody ever looks at the headlines. Nobody ever looks at the smart takes of all the, quote, truth tellers, the media's bias. And this is they won't say the truth about Biden, the media's bias. They won't say the truth about this. And Biden always underestimated his entire life, mocked and ridiculed. And the guy somehow keeps winning.

So that's why when I see a poll like this, the nine point, I saw it and I literally started laughing out loud. I did put it down. I did, too. And I went out and had my Sunday morning walk because it's a joke. But it continues. Yeah, that was exactly the proper reaction. And I felt the same way. And I'd even go back into earlier presidents. You know, Joe, you were a elected new congressman in 1995. How many people you talked to felt that there was a decent chance that the next year Bill Clinton would be reelected president by a substantial majority? As you remember, a lot of people were saying he lost Congress in 1994. This is a lame duck president. He was even asked at a press conference, are you relevant?

Yet he defeated Bob Dole the next year by a substantial number. Ronald Reagan, the year before he ran for reelection, the recession was still on. His numbers were down. There wasn't much suggestion that someone would run against him within the Republican Party, but the numbers were not great. And Walter Mondale, the chief frontrunner on the Democratic side, was full of optimism with some reason. And then you remember Barack Obama most recently, 2011. I remember hearing in public and also talking to some people on the Obama White House staff, they, in the fall of 2011, exactly the same point in this cycle, were very worried that Obama could

not make it for a second term. Unemployment was still high. His numbers were not particularly great, nor were his approval numbers. And so they were saying, you know, perhaps this is a case where Obama is a one-term president. All I'm saying is you know, perhaps this is a case where Obama is a one term president. All I'm saying is that this is something that is almost built into polling of incumbent presidents the year before. Absolutely. Totally agree with you. This is going to be a election that's going to go down to the wire. A deeply divided country may be additionally complicated because of third party candidates. But I would not take very much of this very seriously right now. Yeah. Charlie Sykes, you're in one of the swingiest of the swing states, Wisconsin, right now. I'm curious your take on the polling.

Well, I mean, obviously, the Washington Post poll, the ABC poll is fuel for bedwetting. But I mean, let's just think about the last three days where we're at here. Donald Trump mocked a disabled veteran, called for the execution of General Mark Milley, has called for the complete shutdown of the government unless they defund the prosecutions against him. He's asked for all Senate Democrats to resign over the Menendez case. And, you know, he's talking about using government power to retaliate and shut down NBC for criticizing him. And yet we look at this poll and we're supposed to think that he's got a reasonable shot to win the presidency. And of course he does. Look, that ABC poll is an outlier. You look at the numbers of youth voters and it

tells you, no, there's no way that Donald Trump is winning the youth vote. This this is not to be taken seriously. But the warning signs are out there. And the NBC poll, I think, underlines, along with other polls, that this is going to be a tight race. It is going to be a close race, as have all of our presidential races in recent years. And it is going to come down to some swing states. But this notion that somehow there is no such thing as political gravity anymore is kind of fanciful because Donald Trump is out there reminding Americans as loudly as possible that he is thoroughly dangerous and deranged. And at some point, I think that's going to get a little bit of traction. This is the season where you're firing blanks. You can say that, yeah, Joe Biden's too old or that I'm not enthusiastic about him.

But a year from now, we're going to be faced very directly with the choice. Are we going to put Donald Trump back into the White House again? Yeah, I mean, people I just people aren't focused. They just aren't focused. I know this will come as a shock to a lot of a lot of people watching this show. But I had I talked to a friend who's college graduate yesterday who asked me about politics. You know, I don't really follow politics a whole lot. I need to get focused. And I said, well, what do you want to know? And they told me this was yesterday afternoon. Well, I hear Ron DeSantis may be running. Is he going to run? Like this? People are not focused on the things that we talk about for four hours a day. I think you're right, Charlie, when they do start focusing. And I said, no, I don't think Ron DeSantis is running, by the way. I don't think

that's going to work out. But but when they do start focusing, you are right. There is going to be a lot. There are going to be a lot of people asking a lot of questions about, you know, do I really want to vote for a guy who's calling for the execution of this? All of the things you talked about, Tyler, I will say even the Democrats I spoke to yesterday who shared my view that it was no time for bedwetting, that they needed to take a deep breath and enjoy their Sunday as long as they weren't in the middle of a tropical storm in the northeast. They did, though. There is a common refrain, even among those who think Joe Biden can win and will win. And that is this Bidenomics message is not working. They need to stop trying to convince people how great the economy is when the people aren't buying how great the economy is. Biden needs to roll up his sleeves win this election. And then Donald Trump is, you know, at the end of the day, won't be able to carry votes. They're like, get off Bidenomics. It's not working. You need to get down, get down to where the voters are and start punching back as hard as he's hitting you. Yeah, I think that's a big concern we hear from from

Democrats across the board and even some White House officials conceding a frustration that this message of Bidenomics is not breaking through. We saw across the polls released over the weekend, the economy consistently is one of the issues that Trump outranks Biden in terms of his handling of it. And so I think one of the frustrations for people inside the White House that I speak with is that there are some positive economic indicators, lower unemployment, jobs being added each month, certain sectors coming back strong, continuing from this recovery from the pandemic. But Biden not getting credit for any of that. I think there's a disconnect between the message sometimes the White House is trying to sell and the lived experience and the reality for Americans across the country. But I do think, Joe, your earlier point about this frustration within Biden's inner circle about him consistently being underestimated is really what is driving

a lot of the messaging and the thinking from inside the White House. A lot of those people live through those primaries, those election nights, and they feel that the press, the pundits, et cetera, continue to underestimate Joe Biden, and this time is no different. However, there are a lot of Democrats that continue to say that they are worried about Joe Biden and his ability to defeat Donald Trump. They're concerned about what happened in 2016. The Democrats just rallied around one candidate and then Trump won. Some people want some competition for Joe Biden. He has obviously not gotten that up to this point.

How he returns to the campaign trail when he really needs to go head-to-head against Donald Trump. And there are these persistent concerns about age. I think that is a real driving factor for a lot of Democrats who are starting to get increasingly more nervous about his ability to defeat Donald Trump again. I mean, my take on

this is Democrats need to get behind Joe Biden because he has performed well for them. And so far, looking around here, haven't seen anyone else who has beaten Donald Trump. So unless you want to be that Democrat that jumps in and then risks losing to Trump, good luck to you. But I'd say get behind him because this doesn't help. Within the administration, there is a takeaway from these polls. There's a big takeaway. Focus his schedule and make sure everything he does means something. This man works harder than Donald Trump ever has in a day in his life. So it's not like there's even a comparison.

But let's make sure every appearance he has means something. And Reverend Al, you know, they seem to be doing that in the decision to go to Detroit, I believe, tomorrow. They are going to Detroit tomorrow, first sitting president to join a picket line. And I think that that is the step in the right direction of showing the contrast between Donald Trump and you. I also think that they need to take the age question on head on. He should say President Biden should say that Trump is only three years younger than me. So what are we talking about? Who sounds like they're old and out of it? Somebody calling for the execution of General Malley or someone that is trying to deal with these issues. And I might remind people in the Democratic primaries in 2020,

the youth candidate was Bernie Sanders, who's two years older than Joe Biden. I didn't hear anyone asking Joe Bernie Sanders about his age while young progressives was rallying around him. Take the issue head on. Take it off the table. And then you can get to the record that you said. Compare the economy under me would compare it under Trump. Unemployment was almost double. I think you can win that debate if you have the right debate. Right, right, right. And Charlie mentioned Mark Milley. Here's what Donald Trump said about Joint Chiefs Chairman Mark Milley after The Atlantic profiled Milley in a piece last week where he detailed how he had to protect the Constitution from the former president. The revelations coming days before Milley is set to retire as the country's top military officer.

Trump spent Friday intensifying his attacks, denouncing Milley for the U.S. troop withdrawal against Afghanistan, while also taking on Milley's record and suggesting that General would have been put to death for communications with China. The communications Trump seems to be referencing to are reports that Milley called his Chinese counterpart after Trump lost the 2020 election to say he would warn China should Trump decide to launch a military attack. Meanwhile, in that same Atlantic piece, Milley also recounted an instance in 2019 where Trump reportedly told him that a wounded soldier should be banned from public appearances. At the ceremony, wounded Army Captain Luis Avila, who suffered multiple injuries, including losing a leg in an IED attack in Afghanistan and two heart attacks, saying, God bless America. Milley said Trump asked him afterwards why he brought, quote, people like that to the White House. And that is in line with obviously what we also heard from

other generals who work with Donald Trump. It is sick. It's also sick, man. It's also sick, of course, that, you know, he said that that people who died in wars were losers. I mean, this is what this is what he's done. So, Katie Kaye, of course, it begs the question. These polls suggest that like half of America is supporting a guy who says this about wounded warriors, who says he wants to terminate the Constitution, who says the chairman of the Joint Chiefs should have been executed for telling China we're not going to attack them to just just not worry about it, that steals nuclear secrets, that steals war plans for invasions of Iran, who a judge in New York state says that he raped a woman.

You can go on and on and on. This is this is what we're dealing with, though. And I will say for those Democrats who are concerned about political strategy, when you're running against that. Focus on that. I'm not sure you should be talking so much about GDP growth rates and let nerds like me do that. I'm not so sure you should be talking about, you know, trying to convince people how well the economy is doing in their lives when they're not buying that. But instead, talk about what you're running against. And I think, again, that's that's what I'm hearing from Democrats in Washington. Yeah, I mean, the White House has been super careful about not wanting Joe Biden to talk about the legal cases. The president talk about those legal cases. And that's understandable.

He's trying to make a distinction between the previous administration, his own administration, and give Merrick Garland all the autonomy that the DOJ is rightly due. But there's plenty of material there. And actually, when you look at these polls, there's also plenty of wiggle room, it seems, within still the Republican Party. What, there are 35% of Republicans who are diehard Trump supporters. But that's a lot left who are prepared to take a second look

at another candidate or would seem to be prepared to take a second look at another candidate for all of those kinds of reasons. Like, I mean, we've all had the conversations with people in the Pentagon, in the military who were dismayed when the first reports came out about the kinds of things that Donald Trump said about to John Kelly, about his son who had died. And why do people give their lives? I just don't understand it. Or what he said about John McCain being taken prisoner of war. Now, for the diehards of Trump supporters, that makes no difference. They still love him anyway. But there are those Republicans who are prepared to look somewhere else. It's just this primary season doesn't seem to have produced a viable yet alternative candidate to Donald Trump.

So we're looking again at that Trump Biden matchup, which polls suggest many Americans feel discouraged by on the economy. I think you're right. I mean, you know, the bigger threat I would have thought to Joe Biden at the moment is not so much the age question, but the Federal Reserve saying they're going to keep interest rates high for the next two years. The potentially the autoworkers strike. There are economic clouds on the horizons that could be damaging to the president. And I think he's got to be careful to tie himself just to the message of Bidenomics. Exactly. And a lot of economists now believing that interest rates are going to continue up into next year, the election season.

Michael Beschloss, before we let you go, I'd love to hear what your read is. Obviously, somebody who's closely followed American history through the years. What your take is on, basically, if you agree with NBC poll and most other polls, that we have a deadlocked race between Joe Biden and a guy who's talking about the execution of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who talks about terminating the Constitution, who's stolen nuclear secrets. I could go on and on. What's your best explanation to date for that? Because I don't think we can ever stop asking ourselves enough why so many Americans would continue to support somebody that is calling for the termination of the Constitution, stealing nuclear secrets, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

You couldn't be more right. You know, in the end, a year from now, what's going to be important about this election, whatever happens is if it's Biden versus Trump, you're going to have one candidate who loves democracy, who's been an effective leader in all sorts of ways for more than half a century. That's Joe Biden. On the other side, you're going to have Donald Trump, who this is not a hidden plan. He has told us if he is elected, he is going to institute a presidential dictatorship. He's going to suspend the rule of law by ending an independent Department of Justice. He's going to suspend a military under civilian control and with professional soldiers by saying he's going to have not a Mark Milley, but someone in the

Defense Department and someone in Secretary of Defense who will follow his orders. If it's Biden versus Trump, this is going to be a choice between democracy or dictatorship. And if people vote in this election on any other basis, they're going to be making an extremely dangerous mistake. Well, and let me add two more things to that list. Just off the top of my head, he's already said he's going to just start arresting Democrats. And he also said he was going to take over the take over basically the ability to shut down television stations, said he'd be the guy he would take all of that power into the White House and decide what TV stations could be on and what TV stations couldn't be. I mean, the dangers are endless of a Donald Trump presidency. And I think that Biden, Bidenomics, along with a long list of accomplishments, whether

it's the CHIPS Act, the Inflation Reduction Act, everything else that he's done, even trying to retain the right to abortion and health care for women and efforts on that front, as well as overall in the world, the safety of the world and galvanizing and uniting NATO and creating a space for Ukraine to have a chance at winning against tyrants. And that's ultimately for us. All of that can be mentioned. But as an aside, and then focus on the alternative, which is basically a four time indicted, uh, alleged, or no, actually, uh, found liable of sexual assault and a judge called rapist. Somebody who would take dirt from a foreign leader for, uh, on a political rival, somebody who had sex with a porn star

and then paid her off. This is your alternative to lead America. And Joe Biden and his team can focus on the stuff Trump has put out there. He says he took the documents, that he took nuclear secrets, that he says they were his. There are millions of things they can focus on that are

already out there in the public domain because they came out of Trump's mouth. Use it. Use it. Yeah, they need to. Again, the Bidenomics message not working. Historian Michael Beshalos, thank you so much for being with us. And Washington Post's Tyler Pager, thank you so much as well. We greatly appreciate it. Still ahead on Morning Joe, the Biden administration is preparing government agencies for a potential shutdown as House Republicans remain at odds on a spending deal. We'll have the latest ahead of a funding deadline. Plus, Senator Bob Menendez is receiving mixed messages from fellow Democrats about whether he should resign in the wake of federal corruption charges. We'll show you what his colleagues are saying. You're watching Morning

Joe. We'll be right back. 34 past the hour. Welcome back to Morning Joe. Democratic Senator Bob Menendez of New Jersey is expected to hold a press conference today to address the federal charges he faces. As the growing calls for him to step down are met with some hesitation. Democratic Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania was the first to call for Menendez to step down over the weekend, releasing a statement that reads in part, quote, Senator Menendez should resign. He's entitled to the presumption of innocence, but he cannot continue to wield influence over national policy, especially given the serious and specific nature of the allegations.

Menendez also faces calls to resign from Democrats in his home state, including Governor Phil Murphy and Representative Andy Kim, who has announced plans to challenge Menendez in the 2024 primary for his Senate seat. Senator Menendez released a statement Friday that reads in part, quote, those who believe in justice believe in innocence until proven guilty. I intend to continue to fight for the people of New Jersey with the same success that I've had for the past five decades. He added, I'm not going anywhere. Some Democrats, like Illinois Senator Dick Durbin yesterday, were more reluctant to call on Menendez to step down. This is a very serious charge. There's no question about it. But it bears reminding us of what I've said about the indictments against Donald Trump,

equally serious charges. These are, in fact, indictments that have to be proven under the rule of law. The person who is accused is entitled to the presumption of innocence. And it's the responsibility of the government to prove that case. I said that about Donald Trump. Let's say the same thing about Bob Menendez. In terms of resignation, that's a decision to be made by Senator Menendez and the people of New Jersey. Senator Menendez and his wife, Nadine, were indicted on federal charges Friday that include conspiracy to commit bribery. According to the indictment, Menendez allegedly used his position to enrich three New Jersey businessmen and benefit the Egyptian government. During a search of the senator's home,

investigators say they found gold bars and over $480,000 in cash, much of it stuffed into envelopes and hidden in clothing. Senator Menendez says he is confident he will be cleared on the charges. He and his wife are expected to appear in federal court on Wednesday. With us now, NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Ali Vitale. Ali, thank you so much. And it's surprising to at least me that there's only been one Democratic senator calling for his resignation, especially considering his past problems with past indictments. Yeah, exactly right. I mean, I covered his last election cycle in New Jersey and there was concern on the ground from Democratic voters that I spoke to, but largely this idea of alleged corruption

for them, at least at that point, was baked into the cake. I do think that maybe pressure could ratchet up once lawmakers are back in town. The fact that you've got Senator Fetterman sort of hanging out there alone as the only person within the Senate to call for his colleagues' resignation is, of course, notable. I think it's important, though, to sort of be clear here that Menendez is saying he's not going anywhere from the Senate, but he's doing what he did the last time charges of corruption like this came forward, which is stepping down as the head of the powerful Foreign Relations Committee. So he's at least not on that committee while this works its way through. But I do think that if you look over to the other chamber, you have other lawmakers calling for his

resignation. And of course, you've still got Andy Kim, the congressman from New Jersey, saying that even though he didn't think he'd be mounting a bid like this, he's willing to challenge him. So now at least Democrats have an alternative, even if Menendez himself says he's not going anywhere and he's not facing pressure, at least yet from his colleagues, to step down. Ali, you're clearly going to have a busy week up on Capitol Hill because it's not only this story, of course, we have the looming government shutdown. It is Monday and shutdown week. Look, we like to say on the program that two things can be true at once. But is it true that Kevin McCarthy can keep his job and keep the U.S. government open? I think that's the open question that we're all asking, frankly, in the halls of

Congress, because the way that I look at this story, Katty, is that once you get through whatever the government shutdown storyline ends up being, the next thing that we will inevitably be covering is Speaker McCarthy facing a motion to vacate. At this point, though, I think watching negotiations over the weekend, you've got all of those key McCarthy allies still in the room with him, people like Garrett Graves and Patrick McHenry all negotiating on the part of the speaker. I think what's different here than when we saw McCarthy, though, pull a rabbit out of a hat effectively with the debt ceiling negotiation is that in large part because he faced a bipartisan deal at the end of that, that's why many members of his conservative flank are so mad at him. It makes these negotiations even harder. Frankly, earlier this morning on way too early,

I had on a frontline Democrat, Congressman Wiley Nickel of North Carolina, who basically left the door open to the idea that he could help McCarthy save his job if a motion to vacate comes up. It does feel increasingly like we're not saying if it comes up, but when. Even one of McCarthy's own allies, Garrett Graves, said he has his own motion to vacate drafted and sitting in his desk just so that they can get the exercise over with. McCarthy has been optimistic, of course, about his chances. I do think the other thing I would add, as if we don't have enough going on, it's government shutdown week. Of course, we're dealing with this with Menendez, but also Republicans are going to start their impeachment inquiry this week

towards the end of the week. So no shortage of news on Capitol Hill. You know, Charlie Sykes, it's fascinating how divided the Republican Party seems in many ways. You have a lot of House members calling their own group, you know, a clown show. You have this fighting back and forth between different elements of it. Even with Donald Trump, we focus on a lot of poll numbers, but about a third are always Trump and the Republican Party, about a third are never Trump and the Republican Party. So there's that divide. Even something like Fox News, which used to bring all Republicans together now, there seems to be a split in the audience. If you're reading these sort of postmortems on Rupert Murdoch's running of

News Corp. It's so it's it is fascinating how divided this party is right now. And it seems to me that if the Democrats come up with a viable, strong message and fix it, they should be they should be in good shape over the next year. Well, you would think so. I mean, yeah, the Republicans are turning on one another, but they're doubling down on dysfunction, aren't they? You know, we talked about what Donald Trump is up to. Think about what's going on in Capitol Hill. You are talking about I'm sorry, you're talking about a government shutdown at the same time they are launching this this impeachment agreement. What could possibly go wrong? Kevin McCarthy has given away so many so much of his power. He has made himself so weak that he in fact has put the lunatics and the clowns in charge. And yet this is the moment where we have to ask, are the American people going to think that the

Republican Party should be trusted with more power? Are they a serious governing party or has it become all performative? And it's interesting. They're not even waiting till after the election to basically let their their freak flags fly. And you're seeing this, you know, at the presidential level. You're seeing it at the congressional level. Look, you know, we've been talking about what kind of messaging, you know, the Biden campaign should should engage in, you know, and it's and it's not really that complicated. Joe Biden can say, yes, I'm old, but he is crazy. They are crazy and they are dangerous and they are burning it down. Yes, I am an old guy, but this guy is deranged and fascist adjacent. That's the way you address the age issue and the contrast.

Don't make it too complex. You know, I'm old, but you're nuts. No. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Charlie Sykes. Thank you. NBC's Ali Batali. Thank you for your reporting.

And you're way too early. Judy's this morning. We appreciate it. Thank you for your reporting. And you're way too early. Judy's this morning. We appreciate you all so much. So, Rev, I'm curious what your thought is, what you're hearing again from the Democratic base, also from from people around the Joe Biden question. Of course, the Kamala Harris question always comes in right right along with the Joe Biden question. What are you hearing? And as a guy that's run presidential campaign before, what do you think the Democrats best way forward is? Well, I spent two days at the Congressional Black Caucus weekend and President Biden and Vice President Harris spoke at the closing dinner. And I'm sensing a lot of people saying that they're committed to going to the ground and trying to make sure that there is a major turnout in the black community, which is vital for the for Biden, Harris, and to reach out to other communities. There's a lot of concern about the potential

government shutdown and the politics of that can work against the Republicans. And I think that everyone is just completely taken aback by the things that is coming out of Donald Trump's mouth. Donald Trump is the best thing that could happen to Joe Biden, because every time he opens his mouth, he gives the American people more reason to feel that. Suppose just imagine if he was the president and said we ought to be executing General Malley. I mean, just imagine the things he's saying if he was sitting behind that desk in the Oval Office. So I think there's going to be a lot of people that will underestimate Joe Biden. I remember during the Democratic primaries, the morning after the Democratic debates in Charleston, South Carolina, National Action Network group I had had a minister's breakfast the next morning. And Pudichich and Bernie Sanders, we had all the candidates there.

Joe Biden walked in looking like a beaten man. Later that afternoon, Jim Clyburn endorsed him and he ended up winning the primary. So I would remind people every time Joe Biden has been counted out, the comeback is stronger than the setback. All right. Coming up on Morning Joe, this is how bad things have gotten for New York Jet fans. Jets fans are furious, Tony. Oh, I mean, you can see it on the face, the frustration. And look at, you know, you're frustrated when your teeth come out. Get a grip.

Go Jets. ESPN's Pablo Torre joins us with the biggest storylines from week three, including a potential rumor confirming Taylor Swift sighting in Kansas City. We're back in a moment. Shake it off. Shake it off. Shake it off. Shake it off. Shake it off. Shake it off.

Shake it off. Cover zero. Wheel route. Moss with the catch inside the five, and he's in. That's the one you're holding your breath, and you're like, don't you dare, great throw To the end zone, deflected and caught He's got it again here out of the backfield and explodes up the middle Rondell Moore, touchdown Arizona One play, Charbonnet trying to get to the edge and does Charbonnet

trying to get to the edge and does Charbonnet trucks a man Packers have struggled on fourth down today Love will take it in Stroud to throw the blitzes on he floats one wide open and there he goes tanked out

all the way in play action from Watson he's going gonna take a shot Cooper wide open Bill's fans on their feet making noise on this third down Howell and it's intercepted what a play Epinesa is gonna go He's going to go! Goff stops. Loads. Open Laporta. He's got it. And on first down, play action. Over the top they go.

And he's got Brown. Farrow Brown. Stretches out. And it's a touchdown. New England. 11th play of the drive. Mahomes. Walking in.

So there it is. A touchdown to Kelsey. First and 10. The fake. Good. Block in there. And down it goes. Caught at the 30.

This is the dynamic here. He's in for six. Those are some of the biggest plays by the winning teams across the NFL yesterday, including the first of 10 touchdowns scored by the Miami Dolphins, one of the most lopsided games in NFL history. The Dolphins tallied 726 yards on all offenses. They just crushed the Denver Broncos 70-20. The point total is a franchise record and the most scored by any NFL team in a game since 1966. Let's bring it right now. The host of Pablo Torre finds out on Metal Art Media.

ESPN's Pablo Torre. Pablo, there's so much to talk to you about. Yes. And I've got to say, I've got to say that there are a lot of times you look at NFL, like you're watching Red Zone and you're like, man, one great team after another. I saw a lot of bad teams yesterday. I did. I saw some remarkable performances.

But, man, I saw some bad teams playing. That Colts game was ugly. I mean, the Vikings. I mean, you look at the Ravens. That game, there was just some ugly play. And instead of starting with the ugliest game of all, which we all know what that was, let's talk about one of the remarkable performances we've seen in quite some time. That's the Dolphins.

That's Tua. He starts 16 for 16. And it's just, it's that two-step drop, boom. Two-step drop, two-step drop boom what a performance joe i've never seen a game like this i've been watching sports for a long time i've never seen something like this and you know it's ridiculous because by the end mike mcdaniel the excellent schematic genius who runs the dolphins he elected to not kick the field goal and tie the all-time points record, which is 73. And he was hailed as mercy.

He was hailed as class. And it's just 70 points is not a thing I expected to see in the NFL. That is Joey Chestnut level numbers, okay? That is hot dog contest level numbers. And so the Dolphins, look, the story for the Dolphins, for people who don't know, Tua Tungavailoa has been derided. He's been derided to the point where there is an online movement on NFL Twitter,

which is a dangerous place, I'll warn you. But Tuanon is the movement that backs Tua Tungavailoa. Tuanon, they've been truthers about how good he is. And now Tuanon has had their day because their guy looks like the MVP. Their coach looks like the coach of the year. And Joe, you know this, the Broncos aren't a team of scrubs. This is Russell Wilson's team. This is Sean Payton's team. This is a team that had the biggest trade in NFL history leading into last season. Last season is obviously a disaster. This season is even worse. And so 50 points is the degree of blowout there.

It is unreal, but it happened last night. I will tell you what Dolphin fans were saying to his first year, even into the second year. He's just unmerciful against this guy. He can't throw a pass. And then last year, of course, we all thought by the end of the season, he wasn't going to come back. He's had so many concussions. Concussions, yeah. But what they have done in Miami is they have set up an offense that requires him

to step back most of the time. Two steps, boom, let it go. And it works because he's got extraordinary wide receivers. Yes. And Jalen Waddell, by the way, his second best receiver, wasn't even playing in this game yesterday afternoon. And so Tyreek Hill is, of course, one of the fastest people I've ever seen on this planet. And then they have running backs. Mike McDaniel used to run the 49ers. Offense, you plug in running backs,

he makes them go fast and he makes them go far. And so in terms of just the perfect sports car to drive around Miami, Tuatunga Bailoa is the driver you want because he's accurate. He has the arm, it turns out. And anybody who doubted him, yeah, we feel like we are the ones who maybe have our brains eaten a little bit by the internet. Yeah, I mean, they're obviously the best team in football right now. Let's talk about the worst team in football right now, the New York Jets. I mean, that Jets-Patriots game,

I talked about some ugly football yesterday, ugliest I've seen. That was just a sad, sad game between two sad teams. They have not beaten the Patriots. The Jets have not in 15 straight games. And there was vulnerability here. This was a game that was close till the end and you notice when you are i don't know searching your soul wondering why god has done this to you as a jet

fan you notice that the guy who's playing quarterback for you is a movie you've seen before and i don't want to be mean to zach wilson joe and mika but when the guy in the stands is losing his teeth literally his teeth are falling out of his face because he is angry. He's angry because Zach Wilson is someone that they've lied to themselves about. This gentleman is thinking to himself, why are we still starting Zach Wilson? Why am I still watching him play quarterback? And I get it. I get it. They don't have another option right now.

But sign someone off the street, truly, because the Zach Wilson experience, you can only look. I had to convince my mom at some point, Mom, I'm not going to law school. And she refused to believe me. And hopefully now, still today, it's sinking in finally. But that's the level of delusion that you got to have around Zach Wilson to believe that you're that you're a quarterback. Like, no, no, no. The problem with Zach Wilson is Zach Wilson. And by the way, I feel badly about talking about any of these people because they're all you know, they were great at different levels. A top pick. Zach Wilson. He is not good.

And the biggest problem is he doesn't know he's not good. And apparently Jets management doesn't know he's not good. And the biggest problem is he doesn't know he's not good. And apparently Jets management doesn't know he's not good. They have been getting this is a guy. I said this at the beginning of the season. This is a good Jets team. They've got a really strong defense they could go for. They need to get a veteran quarterback from anywhere, Pablo. Anywhere. Anywhere. And they will win seven, eight, nine games this season.

Yeah, they held the Patriots at 15 points. Like, this is a doable, it's a doable thing. Playoff contention is not unrealistic. But truly, like, I was watching Andrew Luck. Andrew Luck, by the way, who retired early from the NFL, was with the Colts, a former star quarterback. I saw him pop up on the Amazon Thursday Night Football broadcast as a cameo. And my main thought was the New York Jets better be calling that man. Call him up.

Beg him. Send him to Amazon. Look him up. Get him delivered to the Meadowlands tomorrow. They need him desperately. Okay. So listen, here's the deal. We're going to talk about the Cowboys now. Everybody's talking about the Cowboys and I get it.

You go back over the past two weeks and you get this kid that was basically on the street like nobody wanted him a couple of weeks a month or two ago. Six out of the eight quarters that they've played, the last eight quarters they've played,

they have played great football in Arizona. Talk about this game. Josh Dobbs is the quarterback you're referring to. And this is, again, making Jet fans even more miserable because Josh Dobbs was signed right before the season. He had not taken a snap in camp. And the Cardinals started him at quarterback. And everyone's thought is they're trying to lose games on purpose to draft Caleb Williams, number one overall in the draft.

They're tanking the season. And they come into this game against Dallas. They're 0-2, but they've been playing hard, shockingly hard. And Dallas, for context, was looking like the best team in the NFL. They scored the most points. looking like the best team in the nfl they scored the most points they had the best defense and here comes josh dobbs and a cardinals team that has been counted out because they're incentivized to lose and they end up upsetting the cowboys 28 to 16 and this is it's one of those look the cowboys are the most popular tv show in america because it's america's

team because the nfl is. It's the monoculture we all worship. And the Cowboys are the marquee franchise. And so when you have this level of upset in week three, it's just I mean, it's a cereal bowl full of schadenfreude, Joe. It's just delicious. It's delicious. It's delicious. I will say, though, again, Cardinals had a great first half last week. We'll see if they build on that. Really quickly, I want to get to Deion really quickly. I just have to say in passing, the Browns looked really impressive yesterday,

one week after the heartbreak of losing their top running back. Yeah, Nick Chubb. But let's talk, though, about Deion. I'm a big believer. I come from the Bear Bryant School of Football. You beat Appalachian State 63-3, and in your press conference, you talk about what a terrible coach you are and how lucky you are to win. So when I hear Deion Sanders after the first game doing what Deion does,

which he's great, I get it, I'm thinking, oh, keep your head down. Bad day's coming, man. Keep your head. He doesn't do it, and he got it knocked off this weekend. Yeah, yeah. I noticed a little shot in front in your mug there, Joe,

on that front. Because Deion Sanders, but to your point, Deion Sanders does not know how to do humble in that way. Deion Sanders, but to your point, Deion Sanders does not know how to do humble in that way. Deion Sanders will talk a long time about how much he loves his players and all of that. And I believe that's genuine. That's all fair. But when you are coming in and you are immediately the second most famous coach next to Bear Bryant's successor, Nick Saban, and you're winning these games and you're talking about being the greatest coach in college football. When a reckoning happens like this, two things happen.

Number one, the bookmakers say, why did you doubt us? Of course, Oregon, a top 10 team, is going to destroy you guys. But the second thing that happens is everybody who campaigned against you on the level of this guy is hype and not substance. It's not it's too early for Deion Sanders's victory parade. They get validated. And I believe Deion Sanders is one of the great recruiters in America. Oh, my gosh. He's charismatic. He built that program from nothing. They're better sooner than we thought. But the next game is against USC. The aforementioned Caleb Williams will probably drop 70 points on him.

And so it's one of those things where I hope you sold your Dion stock this season, even if he's claiming that they're going to the moon. Well, and listen, they are. They're going to do great. You're right. He's an incredible recruiter. He is shaking college football up like nobody. So great things are going to be coming.

I remember pushing really hard for Nick Saban to come to Alabama. He came to Alabama at the end of the first season. He was 6-6. People said, Joe may not have been the right pick. I'm like, dude, dude, give this guy a couple of years. And it's the same thing with Deion. Two, three years from now when the system's in, he's got all the players around. He's going to be great. Speaking of a team that's been great, but may not even make it to the

playoffs, we'll see. That last slot in the American League wildcard right now, what a fight between the Houston Astros and the Seattle Mariners. It goes back and forth every day. They're fighting for survival. This is going to be a heck of a final week. Yeah, the Mariners have Julio Rodriguez, one of the most exciting players in all of baseball, now that Shohei Otani has been out for the whole season. And to me, the Astros, Joe, the story of the Astros is mind-blowing because, of course, we know them most famously for their cheating scandal, right? They were banging trash cans. They were sending signals. But every year since, we realized that actually this team is just pretty good. They're well-run despite all of the cheating.

They're there every year. And if you're telling me the Astros are going to make a run in the postseason this year, I would not be surprised. I would not be surprised to see a team, again, it's not a feel-good story because of the cheating stuff, but you watch them year after year and you're just like, they actually, it's a shame that they cheated in the first place because they didn't need it. They don't need it.

They've proven it every year since. It's that Barry Bonds thing, right? You didn't need to do the steroids. You didn't. Why? Exactly. Why you gotta? Even before he was one of the 10, 15 best players in baseball history.

He was extraordinary. The host of Pablo Torre finds out on Metal Arc Media, Pablo Torre. Actually, we're four minutes past the top of the hour.