Morning Joe - Morning Joe 9/28/22

Episode Date: September 28, 2022

Florida braces for Hurricane Ian

Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Wednesday, September 28th. We have a lot to get to this morning. In just a moment, we're going to be checking in with Bill Cairns and get a live report from NBC's Carrie Sanders on the powerful hurricane now barreling toward Florida. We're also following big developments out of Russia and Ukraine. There was no surprise in the outcome of those sham elections aimed at annexing parts of Russian occupied areas of Ukraine, plus new reporting on what the Kremlin is doing to prevent Russians from fleeing to avoid being drafted into its faltering war. All of this as the nuclear threats from top Russian leaders keep coming.

Willie? Yeah, let's start in Florida, though, this hour, Mika, where millions of residents are bracing for Hurricane Ian as that powerful storm barrels toward the state, getting stronger by the hour. Just this morning, it became a Category 4 hurricane, expected to make landfall on the southwest coast of Florida as early as this afternoon. The center of the storm then forecast to move over the central part of the state, with winds likely reaching more than 130 miles per hour. The National Hurricane Center also warning of dangerous storm surge and flooding, with up to

18 inches of rain expected in some areas. More than two and a half million people are under evacuation orders along parts of coastal Florida. The powerful storm passed the Florida Keys last night, causing a couple of tornadoes and some damage there. Officials say there also is significant flooding across that area. Yesterday, the hurricane battered western Cuba, knocking out the island's electrical grid, causing a nationwide blackout. Officials say two people were killed there. Let's go straight to meteorologist Bill Cairns with a look at this storm.

Bill, where is it now and where is it headed? It's heading for Florida, southwest Florida to be exact. And it's almost certain that this is going to end up being one of our costliest hurricane disasters or even just weather disasters in our country's history. Some estimates are going to put this at about $10 to even $20 billion worth of damage. But that's not the important thing today. The important thing today is to try to save as many lives as possible. That's the goal of all the emergency managers. That's the goal of all the meteorologists out there, is to get as many people as possible out of harm's way.

And then after it's done, then we'll figure out how we're going to repair and everything and get the power back on in the weeks ahead. So here's the storm, Category 4, about as strong as it gets. We don't even get many Category 4 hurricane landfalls in this country, but that's going to happen this afternoon. And it's going to happen somewhere close to Fort Myers or just north of there around Punta Gorda and Port Charlotte. Now, that sounds familiar to you. 18 years ago, Hurricane Charlie made landfalls at Category 4, 145 mile per hour in the exact same location. It's unbelievable and sad for the people that will live through that. They're going to do it again. So here's the latest from the Hurricane

Center. This is 2 p.m. So that eye is just off the coast. Here's Fort Myers, Cape Coral. If you've ever been to beautiful Sanibel, Captiva, those areas are going to be devastated by a tremendous storm surge and catastrophic winds as it moves onshore. A Category 4 hurricane gives you catastrophic winds with the eye. It's going to see the top level houses will be completely torn off. It won't be all the way down to the foundations like Andrew did as a Category 5, but close to it. So, you know, if anyone hasn't left this area yet and you're hearing that, that's reason enough to get out of there. And then we take the storm as we go throughout the night tonight into tomorrow morning towards central Florida. It will weaken at that time. It'll still be a big power outage story, even through the Orlando area and the Disney and

the Universal complexes. It actually emerges off the coast here of Daytona Beach and then makes another landfill up around Savannah. But as a tropical storm at that time, minor power outages. But the really catastrophic portion of this storm, the life-threatening portion, is going to be everywhere here from the Fort Myers southwest Florida into central Florida. The number one thing that kills people in hurricanes is water. So the thing today we're really focused on is that storm surge. It's going to be to the south of the landfall. It could be the Port Charlotte area, and it could be all the way down to Fort Myers. That's very low-lying areas. We get a 12-foot storm surge. That's never happened

in those areas. Even Charlie was only six to seven feet because it happened when low tide was happening. This looks to move in during high tide this afternoon. High tide, Port Charlotte is six o'clock. Sanibel is three o'clock this afternoon. That could coincide right with that peak storm surge. So we're going to add two to three feet on top of the storm surge, which makes it even worse. So right now, you still, if you haven't evacuated or haven't left and you're supposed to, you still have a little bit of time. It's getting late. We're already gusting to 51 in Naples, 40 in Fort Myers. Usually when you start getting gusts about 50 to 60, that's when tree branches start falling and that's when power goes out. And that's when the rescuers at that point say, we're not even going to head out to help people anymore. We have

to wait till the storm is over. And as far as the max wind gusts estimated, we could be somewhere here between Fort Myers and around Port Charlotte, Punta Gorda and the Boca Grande region. Someone's going to have wind gusts up here of 130 miles per hour. So that's why we're talking catastrophic wind damage. And even as far inland as Orlando, we could have wind gusts to 88 miles per hour. There's a lot of old trees in the Orlando area, and that is going to be the problem there with branches falling down. Power outage swath in red. This is going to be widespread, obviously, where the landfall is. But then right up through I-4, heading into Volusia County here, Daytona Beach, Flagler County, all the way back down towards the Space Coast.

So, guys, this is as bad as it gets. You know, we've been through a lot of these big, huge, devastating storms. We're going to try to save lives today, but this is going to take weeks to recover from. You know, Bill, we have. We've done this, I think, together for about 20 years now. I go back to 2004 in my hometown. You and I were reporting on Hurricane Ivan, another Category 4 storm, and it made a tick right at the last minute and obviously put

Pensacola right in its target. This storm, though, it really does seem to be a bit more consistent, doesn't it? Chances really are slight that it's going to hit anywhere other than that Fort Myers area. Yes, I know everyone in Tampa, you're still watching this so closely. A couple of days ago, we were thinking this could have been into Tampa. Instead, it took a little wobble to the east and kind of our computer models shifted a little bit. You can see this little line here shows how these hurricanes do wobble. And if we get a wobble at the last minute, we may get a hurricane landfall into Fort Myers directly instead of up the coast. Or if it wobbles the other way, we could get that in Sarasota. But that's kind of the window, Joe, of where we're going to see the catastrophic winds, the 130

mile per hour, 140 mile per hour winds. It's either going to be somewhere from Fort Myers, Bonita Beach, northwards up to Sarasota. Everyone in that region has the possibility of obviously life-threatening weather, storm surge like never have seen before, everything you get with a category four landfall. All right, Bill Cairns, thank you very much. And of course, FEMA is already on the ground in Florida getting ready for this. And we'll be watching it throughout the entire four hours of Morning Joe. Also, the House Select Committee investigating the January 6th attack on the Capitol has postponed today's public hearing because of Hurricane Ian. The committee announced the move yesterday, writing, quote, We are praying for the safety of all of those in the storm's path. There is no word yet on when the hearing will be rescheduled, but the committee appears to be winding down its investigation.

One committee member speaking on the condition of anonymity tells NBC News the panel is transitioning its focus to a written report outlining the panel's findings over the past 14 months. Joining us now, Justice Department reporter for The New York Times, Katie Benner. outlining the panel's findings over the past 14 months. Joining us now, Justice Department reporter for The New York Times, Katie Benner. Katie, first of all, do we know when the next hearing will be? That does appear to be the final one. But how long will they hold off? So talk is that it could be as soon as next week. But I think we should be cautious here because they can reschedule this hearing. We just saw them reschedule this hearing.

So we will not know for sure until the committee puts out an official announcement. Katie, I'm sorry. But the written report that they're working on, what are we hearing about? What exactly they plan to do with that? There was talk about what it would take for them to actually, you know, do a criminal referral to the Justice Department by unanimous vote, perhaps. Is that at this point just surmising or is there legitimate undercurrents? So I think that one of the things about this committee is that as they reach near the finish line, it starts to get really fuzzy in terms of what their mission is and what their intent is.

And I think the report is a really great example of that. You're right. There was originally talk of a criminal referral to the Justice Department, but that conversation was happening at a time when it did not seem that the Justice Department was moving very quickly to investigate January 6th. And now we see the Justice Department is moving ahead on that investigation and does not need a criminal referral from the committee in order to act. So the committee's report, I think, will ultimately be what they've always said, which is the fullest accounting to the American people of what happened leading up to January 6th, why the January 6th attack happened, and what to do afterwards. There may or may not be a criminal referral. They may or may not refer some activity regarding funding

to the FEC. That's to be seen. But ultimately, what they want to do is have a document that we can read that tells us exactly what happened and why. And I think, Katie, obviously, these hearings, particularly, and then the report will, too, have captured the country's attention. And polling shows that in a way that maybe even the committee didn't expect. It has been compelling and will be in this last one. Let's take it from the other side of it, the Justice Department. How closely are they watching these hearings? How closely are they watching this last hearing? How closely will they read this final report when they consider whether or not to take up criminal charges here? You know, top officials have always maintained that the department's

leaders are watching extremely closely. It would be absurd not to. You never know what evidence can be brought in this forum. You never know what evidence can be brought in this forum. You know, it might not be evidence that would hold up in a court of law, but certainly it could lead to interesting questions, to leads, investigative steps. So certainly they're watching closely. They will scan the report for any information they can find that matches what they've seen, that contradicts what they've seen, that contradicts what their own witnesses have told them. That will be really key. And keep in mind, the committee and the Justice Department have never really come to a full cooperation agreement.

So for the department, some of the information that they see in the report whenever it comes could be information that they're seeing for the first time. Katie, we had we continue to have convictions in the January 6th trials that are taking place. Yesterday, one of the toughest sentences handed down, along with a judge's just absolutely scathing indictment of the January 6th hearings, as well as Donald Trump. Yes, this is true. And so keep in mind that while the committee has been holding hearings publicly over the summer, while they've taken their break, the Justice Department has been moving forward to your point with these prosecutions of the rioters. And we've seen judges now come out and criticize not only the folks before them on the bench who are being found

guilty, who are being sentenced, but also really criticizing this ongoing lie that Donald Trump won the election and the ongoing damage that's doing to the country. And I think that we might see some of that in the future committee hearing as well. The committee wants to show some of the loose ends they've gathered up, which includes a more forward-looking view of the impact that all of this has had on the United States since the attack. All right. The New York Times justice reporter, Katie Benner, thank you very, very much for being on this morning. Also, major news out of Russia this morning. The New York Times reporting that Russian men attempting to escape the country following Vladimir Putin's latest call up are being met

at the border and served draft notices. The neighboring country of Georgia says around 10,000 people are seeking entry into its borders each day as the rush to escape continues. The EU border agency says there was a 30 percent jump last week in the number of Russian citizens who fled the country. According to independent newspaper, Novaya Gazeta, Russia has seen protests in more than 50 cities and over 2,300 people have been detained under anti-protest laws. Across Ukraine, supporters of the Kremlin are claiming victory in referendums that most Western observers are calling shams. Russian official officials in four occupied regions alleged citizens of those areas voted overwhelmingly to cede their homeland to Russia. This sets the stage for Moscow to annex more land from Ukraine.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said, quote, none of Russia's criminal actions will change anything. Joining us now, staff writer at The Atlantic, Tom Nichols, and the host of Way Too Early, White House Beer Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire. And Joe, that mass exodus of men and families separating themselves just to get away from being a part of Russia's war. These are Russians. It's remarkable. It really is, Willie. You have a country that's in it's just in a free fall right now. We talked about this yesterday with an apple bomb. And you have a country that was economically struggling before this war began. A GDP smaller than a lot of U.S. states. They've endured economic hardship, the Russian people have, because of one man's war. He's

continuing to get attacked from people that are supposed to be his closest allies on the international stage. And his people are trying to flee his country. The situation just seems to keep getting worse. Yeah, those pictures are extraordinary. People desperately trying to get out of the country, whether by train, by plane or even by foot. And those people in Russia have to be asking themselves what this war has brought them exactly. They were promised a quick war where they topple Kiev and they would take back land that they lost at the end of the Soviet Union. Instead, they've been condemned by the world. They've had crippling economic sanctions placed upon them.

It's not a pretty sight inside Russia right now. And Tom Nichols, I imagine Vladimir Putin does to some extent understand that, does to some extent feel that. But the question is, does it matter to him? Does it matter to him that there are protests in the streets? Does it matter to him that even China and India now are criticizing him in public? Does that change his calculus at all in this war? It doesn't seem to. He is personally invested in this war. He is a man who has a very hard time being wrong, has a very hard time dealing with humiliation, has kind of a gangster mentality that if you show weakness, you're not the boss anymore. The interesting thing, though, here, Willie, is that this mobilization almost seems like a kind of reluctant half measure that we sort of thought he would take. Some of us who watch Russia thought he might have tried this on Victory Day in May.

And one possibility is that Putin himself is being pushed to take a harder line by people, for example, in the Russian military, who are just tired of losing this war while other people basically stay out of it and stay home and watch TV. But remember that Putin sold this war as something that would be over quick. It's not really going to affect you. We're going to have big parades. We'll have a bigger country when it's all over. And so now I think he's he's stuck. He doesn't really have a lot of good options here. And in typical Putin fashion, he's just going to keep plowing through it because he doesn't know what else to do. And backing down is just doesn't come easily to him. Tom, U.S. officials have told me in recent days that a cornered, desperate Putin is the most dangerous one. And that's where they feel like he is. He is right now. We should note that this mobilization of reservists coming

up largely fall on the backs of ethnic minorities there in Russia and some of the outer regions where we're seeing many of them try to flee the country. So, Tom, let's talk about this sham referendums that have come down. Obviously, they won. Many of these votes cast with Russian soldiers in Ukrainians' homes forced them to vote at gunpoint, officials say. But if indeed, Russia annexes these countries, that ups the stakes, officials believe, about the possibility that any sort of fighting in those regions could be used as an excuse for Putin to escalate, and that could include nuclear weapons. That's what you just wrote about. You say that's his last remaining threat. Tell us what you mean and how worried are you?

Well, I'm not that worried yet. I still think it's unlikely that he's going to use a nuclear weapon. One thing, by the way, about this conscription in the boondocks with the non-Russian minorities, ironically, those are areas that were actually much more pro-Putin than the cities. So he may be dragooning people into the military that were, he's actually hurting his own base of support. One of the things I do worry about is that when he annexes these territories, he then claims that these are part of the Russian motherland, and that therefore the territorial integrity of the Russian state is being threatened, and that therefore the Ukrainian fighting to reclaim Ukrainian territory is actually an existential attack on Russia, which opens the door to making more nuclear threats.

I wonder about this because I don't think anyone in Russia, even in Russia, really believes that any of these referendums matter. I mean, you know, we're no longer fighting in Ukraine. We're now fighting on the territory of the motherland. Whether whether he's going to get away with that, whether anybody really buys it remains to be seen. But I'm concerned that that's what he's trying to do. Yeah, the Atlantic's Tom Nichols. Thank you very much. We'll be getting back to this story throughout the show as well. Still ahead on Morning Joe.

We're tracking the path of Hurricane Ian all morning with live reports from Florida throughout the show. We'll also be joined by the head of FEMA to talk about the federal response already getting in place for the storm. Also ahead this morning, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell signals his support for legislation that's aimed at preventing another January 6th. But will other Republicans follow his lead? Plus, a January 6th rioter who assaulted Officer Michael Fanone gets one of the harshest sentences yet relating to the Capitol attack. And we'll have a look at this morning's front page headlines, including a warning about possible blackouts in one area of the country this winter. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. Beautiful view of New York. It's 24 past the hour. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is throwing his support behind the bipartisan Electoral Count Act reform.

Congress process for counting their presidential electors votes was written 135 years ago. The chaos that came to a head on January 6th of last year certainly underscored the need for an update. The revision would clarify the 1887 Electoral Count Act to limit the vice president's responsibility to simply counting votes and raise the threshold to object to an elector. It would also add laws around certifying elections and help ensure an orderly transition of power. The endorsement from McConnell gives the legislation a major boost, but will put the Republican leader at odds with former President Trump. The bill can now be sent to the full Senate floor for a vote. I really don't think he cares. Oh, of course not. If Donald Trump is opposed to this. Jonathan O'Meara, obviously, this has been a critically important piece of

legislation to pass. As I mentioned yesterday, the New York Times editorial board, the Wall Street Journal editorial board, soon after January 6th, both agreed that this needed updating, and especially to prevent another January the 6th. But also, I like the fact even in less, let's just say less serious times, it stops members of either party for political purposes, questioning the outcome of the election. And it seems every few elections you'll have a couple of Democrats or a couple of Republicans who want to make a point to their fervent base who question the outcome of the elections. Of course, drawing no equivalency between what happened in 20 and what happened through the years. But it has been an irritant for quite some time. And by raising the threshold for actually

these these questions to be raised and debated, I think I think it makes the entire process cleaner, better, more serious. Yeah, it has happened before George Bush's election. It happened in 2016. A couple of Democrats registered complaints when Donald Trump was being with January 6th and Joe Biden, then vice president, said, no, enough is enough. We're moving on from here. But this, of course, is about January 6th. And this had bipartisan support. It's a bipartisan bill. Those attached to the process believed it was going to get enough Republican support anyway. But Mitch McConnell lending his voice to it all but guarantees that, although it will put him at odds with some in his caucus. Not every Republican, particularly those who are particularly aligned with the former president, will go with this.

There will definitely be some opposition. You're certainly right. People I talked to yesterday say McConnell doesn't care at all what Trump thinks. We heard how critical he was on January 6th when it happened in the aftermath of the riot. We know how McConnell has broken with Trump on a lot of things since then. This is an important step. And people, White House aides I spoke to last night said, of course, the overarching goal after that election was federal voting rights reform. That fell short. But this, the Electoral Count Act, an important key necessary step. And staying on January 6th, one of the protesters who assaulted former D.C. police officer Mike Fanone will spend the next seven years in prison. Kyle Young, a Trump supporter who was at the Capitol on January 6th, was sentenced to 86 months in prison after pleading guilty in May to a felony count of assaulting, resisting or impeding officers.

Young brought his teenage son with him to the Capitol and was part of the mob that dragged Officer Fanone into the crowd. And then he handed a taser to another rioter who then shocked Fanone in the neck. At his sentencing, Young spoke directly to Fanone and apologized, saying he hoped the former officer could forgive him one day. Fanone also spoke at that sentencing, telling Young he had prevented him from finishing his career in law enforcement and that he should have been given a 10 year sentence. Fanone added, quote, I hope you suffer.

After Fanone spoke, a supporter of the January 6th defendants who was in the courtroom shouted out, calling the former officer an expletive. There was a brief stare down before marshals escorted the supporter out. So, Joe, that's a long prison sentence for that guy who admitted to his crimes. A lot of it is on camera. Part of why he had to admit to it. But also interesting, the judge, the federal judge, Judge Jackson, when handing down the sentence, made a longer and bigger speech about the people who drove people like Kyle Young to the Capitol. Republican leadership who stoked these fires, who fanned the flames and sent them to the Capitol. Yeah, some of the very people who want to run the House of Representatives over the next couple of

years. I mean, one of those who tried to help Liz Cheney out of out of the chamber on January the 6th, did not, didn't get a kind word from Liz Cheney who said, you caused this. And now as then, Liz Cheney was right. Some of these Republicans stoked the fire. The judge was having none of it yesterday and she condemned the attack in the harshest terms, said she couldn't believe that he did what he did with his son there and then took aim on Republicans, took aim on Donald Trump.

It says the judge rebuked Republican leaders who she said were so fearful of Trump that they wouldn't contradict his lies about the election. Some, she said, were cagely stoking civil unrest amid ongoing investigations into Donald Trump's conduct. I mean, Mika, it's just again, this is it's just so striking. You just have to stop yourself every once in a while. It's so striking that you still don't have Republicans aggressively calling out what happened on January the 6th, still spreading conspiracy theories, as we saw a couple of days ago, trying to say that some guy was an FBI plant.

Again, just why would they want anything to do with it? Conspiracy theories and again, beating the hell out of cops again. These people are the same people are saying, put us in charge because Democrats aren't supportive enough of police officers. They're the ones beating up their supporters are beating up police officers. These Republicans are the ones lying, saying, oh, you know, it's just a bunch of tourists. Right. I'm talking mainly about the House Republicans. And they just won't call these people out. They won't condemn them in the harshest, harshest terms.

And you still have an officer almost beaten to death, getting getting sneered at and verbally abused inside of a courthouse. You have the head of the Oath Keepers on trial for many charges, including seditious conspiracy. Why would any Republican leader want anything to do with this? Why? It just it's number one, it seems so demented and and treasonous. But number two, why would you want to be affiliated with anybody who would do damage to our democracy, hurt cops, try and kill cops and try and interrupt our process. I don't I don't understand what's the win here. And not only that, talk about defunding the FBI, not the top law enforcement agency in America and beating the hell out of police officers on Capitol Hill. So you can't take a stand on this. It's all situational support.

These these people, so many of these House Republicans will say, yes, we support democracy so long as our candidate wins. And yes, we will support law enforcement so long as law enforcement doesn't enforce the laws so long as law enforcement doesn't enforce the laws. So long as law enforcement doesn't protect Madisonian democracy. So long as law enforcement allows our guy, the cult leader, to take top secret classified documents out of a government building, steal them and store them illegally in his beachside resort. This is it's all very situational. It's all really grotesque. And you just you just wonder where is the shame? Where is the shame in this Republican Party?

We'll be following the many trials in play here. It is time now for a look at the morning papers in New York. The Rochester Democrat and Chronicle reports on possible service cuts at upstate hospitals. According to a new survey, about 50 hospitals in the region warn of cuts due to declining patient revenues and skyrocketing service costs. Nearly 90 percent of those hospitals report they are on track to lose millions of dollars by the end of this year. In Massachusetts, the Boston Globe reports energy officials want that plummeting winter temperature, warn that plummeting winter temperatures could bring rolling blackouts across New England. Natural gas shortages driven by the war in Ukraine could strain the region's power grid this winter.

Commissioners at the Federal Energy Regulatory Agency earlier this month made a rare visit to New England to come to grips with just how serious the threat is. In Kentucky, the Courier-Journal leads with Ford Motor Company's expanding presence in the state. The automaker has announced it will invest $700 million and create 500 new jobs at its truck plant in Kentucky to support vehicle production. And in Michigan, the Detroit News is covering General Motors' decision to delay its return to work plans until next year. On Friday, the company informed employees they would be expected to work in person at least three days a week. That announcement was met with swift backlash, causing the automaker to delay those plans. And coming up, cracks in the pipeline or sabotage.

That's the question European leaders are trying to answer after leaks into natural gas lines that run from Russia to Germany. We'll have the latest on that. Plus, former Secretary of State John Kerry is our guest ahead of a major climate conference. And up next, one of the most famous speeches of the 20th century didn't really move the needle when it was delivered. Presidential historian John Meacham joins us to explain. Morning Joe is coming right back. Look at that gorgeous shot of Washington, D.C. at 38 past the hour. Much better in Washington, D.C. right now than it is in southwest Florida. We have Bill Cairns, of course, that's going to be with us throughout the morning. We're tracking Ian, expecting right now, Ian,

to hit the coastline early afternoon around the Fort Myers area, Category 4. And Bill Cairns saying earlier this hour, there's fear that it could be the most devastating, the most expensive hurricane in U.S. history. Millions of people are under an evacuation order right now, and FEMA is already getting into place. We'll be following that story over the next four hours. But right now, let's bring in presidential historian John Meacham. John, it's great to have you here. You're out today with a new episode of your award-winning podcast series, It Was Said. It's my favorite podcast. It's out there. In the season two premiere, you talk about Winston

Churchill's powerful The Finest Hour speech. It was delivered in June of 1940, one month after the premier ship. He rose to the premier ship at a time very few in America or across the world gave Great Britain a chance of pushing back and stopping a Nazi invasion of the island. Here's a little bit of that speech. If we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new dark age, made more sinister and perhaps more protracted by the likes of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duty. So bear ourselves that if the British Empire and its commonwealths last for a thousand years,

men will still say, this was their finest hour. Just an absolutely remarkable speech, John. You know, first of all, since this podcast series is about speeches, let's talk about Churchill for one second. As an orator, I let's just say in the dark days of American democracy four or five years ago, sometimes at night, I would with the lights off, I would put Churchill speeches on and just close my eyes and listen. And the thing that struck me was that Churchill, we think of him as this one, one of our favorite quotes about Churchill, when he's right, he's right. When he's wrong, good God, my God. And we think of this hot-headed, flamboyant leader. And yet you listen to these speeches, like his great speeches, he always delivers them low at a slow cadence.

He takes his time and it seems every word is freighted with even more power. You know, as you know, he wrote them out in what he called psalm form. So his script was not sentences across a page, but as verse, because he understood that this was a performance. He was in the Shakespearean tradition, almost a biambic pentameter. He he was a force for order amid chaos. Imagine what's going on in that late spring, summer, into the fall of the Blitz. As he put it, everything is at stake. And it's not notional.

It's real. France has fallen. The United States is in its isolationist, is in the grip of isolationism. Three of the most important, four important words in the speech are including the United States, which was a not very subtle point that the great republic, as he called it, needed to become engaged in the world's problems. That somehow or another, Hitler taking over, taking over Europe was not going to keep the United States impervious from the price of autocracy. And I think what's so fascinating to me about the Churchill saga is, as he put it, he sets this frame, which is if the empire, if democracy, constitutional democracy, is to last forever, men will still say this was their finest hour. He sets things up as a story that we are not only acting for ourselves in the moment, but for generations yet to come.

We're players in an unfolding story. And I think in our own moment, we need to remember this. What Churchill is really calling for there, and in these other speeches we do, President Kennedy and the moon landing, Margaret Thatcher in the early 1980s, Ronald Reagan at Normandy, Frederick Douglass, Nelson Mandela, Eleanor Roosevelt. What they're all really asking for is courage, is the capacity for each of us to act not only for our appetites and ambitions of the moment, but to perhaps put the middle and long term interest of others ahead of our own short term interest. And that was the fundamental claim that Churchill was making.

John, this usually my compliments to you are dripping in sarcasm, but I joined Joe and said that this really is my favorite podcast, too. It's just so good. I'm so excited for the new season. I was thinking, listening to that speech about your book, Franklin and Winston, where, you know, almost everything publicly and privately that Churchill said was directed to FDR in some way. The love letters more directly that he would write to FDR. But a speech like this, as you touched on a minute ago, was also a big signal to FDR that we need your help here. Churchill once said no lover ever studied the whims of his mistress as I did those of Franklin

Roosevelt. It was a love story. It was a seduction because and let's see if this sounds familiar. The United States was self-absorbed. There were illiberal forces of the right and the left at work in the 1930s heading into the 1940s, Congress was beholden to a largely isolationist base. So even if they thought they knew better, they feared being defeated. And so therefore, they continued to build an isolationist regime, which would not even allow the selling of arms for a long time. We had neutrality acts, three of them, I think, in the 1930s, trying to keep this idea that America was somehow not going to be involved in the story of the world. And it was about domestic politics. It was part of it was the

cataclysm of the First World War. It wasn't it wasn't irrational, but it was wrong. Something can be irrational and can be rational and wrong as well. And so I think the good news about the story of FDR and Churchill and, you know, maybe it seems as though we're talking about, you know, kind of a C-SPAN Epcot of great people who don't walk the earth anymore or whatever, is they were human beings. These guys were not particularly good husbands. They weren't particularly good fathers. They could be touch and go friends. As politicians, they could be totally wrong. But they got the central big thing right, which was that the experiment had to go on. And I would suggest that that's the thing facing all of us today. Are we going to defend this experiment in the way they did?

And they should be inspiring, not because they were perfect, but because they were so damn imperfect. Right. That's so interesting. Although Churchill's speech is one of the most acclaimed in English history today, John, you say in the podcast that it wasn't initially well-received at all. Let's take a listen to a clip from the new episode. Hold on one second. The speech was delivered twice, once in the House of Commons and again for the public on the radio. Churchill's performance in the House was apparently better than his later public one. An intimate wrote,

Now, as delivered in the House of Commons, that speech was magnificent, but it sounded ghastly on the wireless. All the great vigor he put into it seemed to evaporate. Jock Colville, his private secretary, thought the prime minister sounded tired on the radio. Another aide reflected that at points during the radio version, Churchill spoke with a cigar in his mouth. Yet the speech's sentiments transcended the iffy public delivery. Here, as on other occasions in 1940, Churchill, as the CBS broadcaster Edward R. Murrow once remarked, mobilized the English language and sent it into battle. Took it into battle, and there is a number that I always talk about, a percentage that I always talk about that I find absolutely stunning. That at the height of the Blitz in 1940 and early 41, only three percent of the British people thought it was even possible that they could be defeated by the Nazis,

when in fact it was much closer. Their survival actually teetered far more than than Churchill would have ever allowed them to imagine for the very reasons that you talk about in the podcast when you when you bring up Murrow's extraordinary quote about Churchill? Well, you know, it was, as Wellington said of Waterloo, the damnedest close run thing you ever saw in your life. Dunkirk, which unfolded in June 4th, was the great speech about we shall fight on the landing grounds. We shall fight, we shall never surrender. But that was because Hitler bizarrely chose to let the British Expeditionary Force go functionally. He could have crushed it.

Hitler made three mistakes militarily, strategically, from which he would never recover. You take one of them out and we're probably living in a different world. He let the British Army escape France. He invades the Soviet Union in June of 1941, creating a two front war. And then he declares war on the United States four days after Pearl Harbor, when in fact he had no. I mean, he had a treaty obligation to do it, presumably. But we all know how Hitler treated treaties. So it's just a reminder. And I think it's at once sort of disorienting and yet reassuring that history is so contingent that what we're living through, there's no foreordained result. These are human beings making decisions, often wrong, sometimes right. Churchill made the right decision in that he bet

on the resilience of the British people. And he was determined in his memoirs. It's very interesting for Churchill was not what I would call a particularly modest man. I think that's a fairly safe way to put it. But if you read the war memoirs, six volumes won the Nobel Prize for literature. You realize that again and again, he talks about to use the Murrow line. He talks about, yes, I expressed this, but it was the will of the people. I was called upon to give the roar to the British lion. And that's the covenant of a constitutional democracy. It's that the leaders and the lead are in a kind of conversation. They reinforce each other. Sometimes the leader is ahead of the many and sometimes the many are ahead of the leader.

But if this again, if this experiment is going to long endure, there has to be an open channel of honest communication between the two. example, in modern history than Franklin Roosevelt in the United States in depression and war and Winston Churchill in wartime Britain. The season two premiere of It Was Said is available now wherever you listen to your podcast. Historian John Meacham, thank you. Nice work. These are fantastic. Thanks for coming on. And still ahead, the latest out of Florida as the state braces for a category four hurricane, Hurricane Ian, to make landfall. We'll get the storm's latest track and a live update from the state. Plus, we'll be joined by the FEMA administrator as President Biden directs federal assistance to supplement Florida's storm response. Also ahead, the U.S. special presidential envoy for climate. Former Secretary of State John Kerry is our guest. Morning, Joe.

We'll be right back. And the pitch. Chopped slowly to second. Torres there. And the Yankees are the American League's champions. Mike Barnicle says that baseball is like life. Hopefully long with many chapters in it. And Willie, the New York Yankees this year seem to have several seasons contained in one in an up and down turbulent 2022. But as we always say, it's

about how you enter the fall. And it seems the Yankees have paced it just right, doing really well, winning the division and going to get a first round bye in the playoffs. Yeah. I mean, remember, they started the season the first few months, and the question was, are they going to set the all-time single-season wins record? Then they went into two months of kind of spinning out of control. They just couldn't hit, even though Aaron Judge was carrying them through that time.

And now they're back. They won seven in a row last week, and now back on a winning streakching the al east yeah uh for the 20th time clinching the division there i won't tick through some of the other names on that graphic there particularly one at the bottom i know that's too painful for too many people on this program but you also had joe the st louis cardinals clinching their division last night wow um so So, yeah, the only race really left to look at is the Mets and the Braves, who are tied. Here are the Cardinals getting it done last night. What an organization.

There they are again. St. Louis Cardinals winning their division. And Pujols. What a story for Albert Pujols. He got to 700. You can check that off. He's comfortable. He's relaxed.

They're cruising into the playoffs. On the other hand, Joe, going back to the Yankees for just a second, Aaron Judge still sitting on 60 home runs. He's got eight games now to hit one to tie and two to break the record set by Roger Maris 61 years ago. They walked him four times last night. He's still hitting the ball when he sees pitches. He's just not hitting it out of the ballpark.

It's not like he's in a slump. He's just not pressing maybe a little, John, like on a couple balls out of the zone. You can see him swinging at it, but he's still got eight games to do it. Yeah, he's still got time. He's got some games at that little league park in the Bronx that'll help. But yeah, no, he does seem like he's pressing a bit. We all thought he was going to do it at Fenway last week. He did not, but he wanted to tie two to two to break with eight games to go. Mike Barnicle, though, the National Geese, it's going to be great. Braves Mets tied. The teams play three games this weekend in Atlanta, although it's possible the storm might delay some of those. But division title on the line. Division title on the line. They're going to really need DeGrom and Schroeser to come up big back-to-back.

Watch out for the Cardinals in the National League. A very sneaky, very under-the-radar, really great team. By the way, I just want to remind people to watch this show.

While the Yankees were losing in the middle of the season and all the whining was going on, Willie and I kept talking about how long the season was time and time again. It's a long season, all right? And it doesn't matter if you break any records. Ask the Seattle Mariners.

It doesn't matter. I've got a really good friend that was thrilled about the fact that the Indians had won like 24 or 25 games in like August. Great. It's August. It doesn't matter. And the Cardinals are a perfect example of that. You look at the series they've won this century,

and they weren't the best team throughout the year. The same thing with the Braves. And we're going to talk to Claire McCaskill in a second. We're at the top of the hour. But, Mike Barnicle, I've got to ask you a question. Willie brought up the Red Sox. The Red Sox have now finished last five of the last 11 years. Of course, we celebrate their victories, and we're so thrilled that they've won four World Series. The Red Sox have now finished last five of the last 11 years.

Of course, we celebrate their victories, and we're so thrilled that they've won four World Series. But, Mike, I love the Red Sox. You know, I still watch every game. I listen to every game, even when we're playing badly. It's a thrill for me to be able to hear the Sox, even on the radio as I'm going to bed. They do. But this team, this team is deplorable. for me to be able to hear the Sox, even on the radio as I'm going to bed. Hey, Joe. But this team, this team is deplorable.

And I hate to say it because I know it's tough. I know these jobs tough. But Blom has put together one of the worst Red Sox teams I've ever seen in my life. You look at the people that have been coming out of the bullpen all year. It really is inexcusable for a team in that market that makes that much money. They make more money, my God, than probably, you know, the overwhelming majority of the teams. And this is an absolutely horrific lineup. The pitchers, the bullpen. What in the world has happened, Mike? Well, Joe, I would tell you this, first of all, that outside of my family, the Red Sox are the most important component of my life. And I have to tell you that this has been the most bitter, the most disappointing season

I've experienced in a long, long time. There is no excuse for what's happened. Chaim Blum is a good guy. He's a smart guy. He's been on the job now for nearly three years. There's no excuse for coming north out of Fort Myers, and let's hope Fort Myers survives today's onslaught from the hurricane. There's no excuse coming north from spring training without a major league outfielder who can hit the ball, without a bullpen, without a starting rotation. I don't

know what happened. I don't know what the plan is. I would hope they would tell us at some point because they certainly have enough money and we've got to get it done. Yeah, he seems like a good guy. He really does. I wish him well. But they need to explain to Red Sox fans who love the team as much as you do and I do, what in the hell happened this year? We have Claire McCaskill. I know, we've got to bring in Claire.

Claire, I promise you, she's going to be very upset if we don't talk about an organization that I think is a great contrast to the Red Sox. I mean, the Red Sox have won four World Series. I think we've got a couple of them off of you guys. But the Cardinals don't finish in last place five times out of 11 years. They're an incredible organization top to bottom. Talk about this year's team. Well, this year's team has been such a tale of the old and the young.

The next generation is clearly coming up with Goldie and Arenado obviously going to be the key people going forward. And that's the thing the Cardinals do. They always look down the road. Who is going to take the place of Yachty? Who is going to take the place of Pujols? Who have been such fun for us this year? The only thing that everybody in St. who is going to take the place of pool holes, who have been such fun for us this year. The only thing that everybody in St. Louis is going nuts about is pool holes hit 700 on Apple TV. And a lot of the St. Louis fans couldn't see it because it was on Apple TV. So we are having a little bit of a kerfuffle here in St. Louis. So Friday night, I will be there. I'll be there in our seats behind home plate.

And pool host will get a welcome like he has never seen in St. Louis. And hopefully he will do a little magic for us this weekend since Cardinals fans feel cheated because of Apple TV. Oh, my Lord. Oh, my Lord. You're so spoiled. You have that to complain about. Barnacle, Lamere and I, we have to watch pictures that couldn't make Pensacola Catholic high school's team.

Maybe they could have played on Little Flower in Pensacola. But this is, I mean, she's complaining. So I'm curious. I'm curious, guys. How do you guys feel about, I wanted to ask this before we get off baseball. How do you feel about this three wild card team thing? I'm a little, like, put off by the fact that we win our division, and now we have to maybe play the Phillies or Milwaukee to get to the Braves

or to get to the Mets. This three wild card thing, I don't understand what's behind that, and it feels a little unfair to a division winner that they've got to jump through another hoop to get to one of the other division winners.