Morning Joe - Morning Joe 9/28/23

Episode Date: September 28, 2023

Republicans clamor for the spotlight in a boisterous, messy debate

Excuse me. Excuse me. Thank you for speaking while I'm interrupting. Literally. Literally. You said bought and paid for. If I may finish. Gentlemen, you'll have your turn.

You can't be on both sides. Gentlemen, you'll have your turn. One of the challenges we should have. We should have a focus on the issues that matter between the big business in China. Everybody knows that. If I may address. Let's focus on holding Joe Biden accountable. That's what we need to be focusing on.

I actually agree with Rhonda Sanders. Everybody speaking at the same time. So if you couldn't understand any of that, you were not alone. The Republican candidates on stage at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library last night mostly focused on attacking each other rather than the front runner in the polls. Donald Trump talking over each other a lot. Trump was instead on stage by himself in Michigan, speaking to a crowd of mostly non-union autoworkers and criticizing the strike against Detroit's big three. That's a tight shot there. Meanwhile,

in Washington, it appears the far right Republicans in the House are ready to shut down the government over one key funding item. We'll tell you what that is just ahead. Yeah. So, Willie, the debate last night, we're going to get to it and play more of the clips. But just overall, I had one Republican leader, one contributor, one of everything after another, after another. Just they they were texting and calling, all saying the same thing. What a mess. What an embarrassment. What a disaster. It was it was a lot of what we just showed in that clip talking over each other. The moderators having lost control of things. some very cringy moments, awkward moments. Nikki Haley, if you wanted to

pick somebody, she had several adult moments. But for the most part, you're watching and thinking, wow, this is, as some people put it, the kids table where they're all fighting for second place as Donald Trump sits comfortably at home. And you watch that, you watch it and you ask yourself, why would Donald Trump ever participate in that debate with the lead he has? Why would he step into that fight? And I think a lot of people, the analysis, you're kind of going through the usual motions of a debate, like who won, who lost and what should we expect tonight? I guess the only question is, does any of it really matter? Some things could change. Of course, we've got four major federal indictments, 91 felony charges against the president. I guess some people are trying to hang around long enough to see if that impacts Donald Trump. But it's hard to say anybody won last night. Did anybody stand out? I don't know.

We all watched. And I guess you could say Nikki Haley did pretty well. Chris Christie, again, the only one going after Donald Trump. He'll be on our show again this morning. I did note that one thing didn't come up. The former president of the United States called, effectively suggested, I should say, for the execution of General Milley. And that didn't come up at the debate. I'd be curious to hear what all those candidates think about that. Yeah, it didn't come up, wasn't asked.

But that's really part of the course. Well, that's what Molly John Fast was talking about yesterday, where we we the media has to cover the stories that are news. Right. And the fact that that wasn't asked or the massive fraud liability that went down yesterday. I mean, this is one universe versus another that actually lives on facts. These candidates weren't asked about anything. Well, I mean, the fact that, yeah, I mean, you had the Milley basically invitation to assassinate. You had Donald Trump looking like he was going to get shut down from doing business in the state of New York. And you had Donald Trump also saying that he was going to shut down NBC and Comcast and Jonathan Lemire. That's something that those two really extreme

things that he put on Truth Social were what the Wall Street Journal editorial page correctly brought to attention. Guys, guys, gals, if we keep going in this direction, this guy who just said these things is going to be your nominee. And if he's your nominee, there's a reason why the people in Biden world think they're going to win. And you looked on that stage and everybody yelling at each other last night. I do think that Nikki Haley probably stood out among the best. But it's so split up. It's just like 2016. They're splitting themselves up, you know, 5 percent here, 7 percent there, 9 percent there. And for people who say it doesn't make a difference whether it's split or not, there there were there's CBS, you go, Hampshire, in both states, you have about 75 percent of the voters who say they're open to voting for somebody other than Donald Trump, that they're looking

there. And a large chunk of them, about a third in each of those states, are saying they will not vote for Donald Trump. So there's an opportunity. Last night was another blown chance to get those people united behind somebody that can actually beat the guy who says the chairman of the Joint Chiefs needs to be assassinated. Yeah. Last night was chaotic. It was messy. It was sloppy. A lot of major topics were not addressed. Vivek Ramaswamy, unknowingly or not, had the line of the night where he's he thanked someone for speaking while he was interrupting because that's what it was, because everyone was just shouting at the other. And it was hard at times even just to hear what anyone was saying last night. And certainly there was no real breakthrough moment. There were some cringy moments and some pretty bad one liners we can get to later. But there is, to your point, Joe, about the polls. There's still this appetite seemingly to have someone else step forward to be the Trump alternative.

And for a long time, it was perceived to be Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida. And his campaign has been in a free fall. And there was nothing last night. He didn't fare poorly, but he also didn't do all that well. There was nothing last night to suggest that his slide is going to stop. There is some chatter among Republican donors right now that maybe Nikki Haley could be that person, in part because in the head-to-head polls, and we're very early, but in the head-to-head polling, she fares the best against President Biden. So maybe she would be that choice. And she has done pretty well in these debates. I'd argue a little better in the

first one than last night, but she is sort of the adult in the room. But the question is, with Trump's lead so big, are Republican donors really going to throw their money at Haley right now if potentially it's a waste? That's going to be the choice here. Do we see some of these candidates drop out potentially to give Haley a chance to be the alternative? At least right now, no one is. And no one is. And the more the candidates stay in, the more divided it gets, the better. Of course, it is for Donald Trump. Yeah. And at least, Jordan, as far as lines of the night go, I've got to say Nikki Haley borrowing from Happy Gilmore was a great move after a V-vax answer. And basically uses the Happy Gilmore line.

Every time you talk, I feel a little more dumb. You are awarded no points and may God have mercy on your soul. That's basically what she did. So let's give her let's give her props at least for, you know, borrowing from Happy Gilmore. No, I mean, Governor Haley had the best sense of reading the room, actually speaking and following the flow of where the arguments were going, answering questions than any other candidate on stage. And I think that's where some of the other candidates just really fell flat because they stuck to their rehearsed lines and the moment might not have been there. The timing was off. Some of the more uncomfortable exchanges. I just I really hope that Mike Pence's line about his wife was not preplanned just because it was so incredibly awkward.

I just didn't need to know about his life with his wife to say that was a bit of a distraction. But, you know, Nikki Haley really emerged somewhat the winner of a very weak night overall. And would it be in the Republican Party's best sense to coalesce around one candidate and for donors to get behind one candidate if they do not support Donald Trump? Yes. Is that going to happen? I doubt that that common sense will take hold. Well, the thing that's more troubling is neither the candidates nor anybody in that room addressed the many elephants in the room. Here's that moment with Nikki Haley and Vivek Ramaswamy in an exchange that started when the businessman was asked about having a TikTok account. Then I want to get to Charlie on the other side about this.

Take a look. So the answer is I have a radical idea for the Republican Party. We need to win elections. And part of how we win elections is reaching the next generation of young Americans where they are. So when I get into office, I've been very clear. Kids under the age of social, under the age of 16, should not be using addictive social media. We're only going to ever get to declaring independence from China, which I favor if we actually win. This is infuriating because TikTok is one of the most dangerous social media apps that we could have. And what you've got, I honestly, every time I hear you, I feel a little bit dumber for what you say, because I can't believe they hear you've got a TikTok situation. What they're doing is

these 150 million people are on TikTok. That means they can get your contacts. They can get your financial information. They can get your emails. They can get text messages. They can get all of these things. China knows exactly what they're doing. And what we've seen is you've gone and you've helped China make medicines in China, not America. You're now wanting kids to go and get on the social media that's dangerous for all of us. You and you were in business with the Chinese that gave Hunter Biden $5 million. We can't trust you. We can't trust you.

You've got to love that, that V-vax logic. Now, I'm going to ban moonshine when I become president of the United States. But I'm going to drink this jug of moonshine right here because it's going to help me relate to the kids a little bit better. Okay. I'm passing moonshine around for everybody. Charlie Sykes.

How can you say I'm going to ban TikTok? The commies are behind it. Hey, everybody, I'm going to win by using TikTok. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. But Charlie, my my bigger concern about the whole thing is why nobody asked or spoke about the Republican front runner talking about assassinating General Milley. Like, how does that get avoided by everybody in the room? Yeah. How does how was that not the first question? Well, I didn't talk about his felonies.

They didn't talk about fraud. They didn't talk about any of these things. And that's the look. I mean, you know, where do I go to get my two hours of my life back? Now, that was an absurd farce. It was a non-event, but it was also just completely pointless. And I think you just put your finger on it. You have this debate, this presidential debate. Donald Trump is sitting back. He's not there. And nobody really laid a glove on him. They continue to go through the motion. So unless we want to engage in fan fiction, I think the reality is that that debate did not mean anything.

It's not going to change anything. The Republican field is very, very unlikely to coalesce around anyone other than Donald Trump. And I think that that that has to settle in as the as the as the moment. So, you know, the larger picture is they should have asked about General Milley. But at some point you would think that Republicans are looking at that, this this incredible clown show, this chaotic mess up there and saying this is the best that we can do and that we're not going to address the fact that we are this far away from nominating somebody who has been charged with 90 felonies, who's calling for the death penalty for his political enemies and critics shutting down the media and somebody who is, you know, on a daily basis decompensating on social media. So here we are. And, you know, to the point that this feels a lot like 2016, I'm already having the PTSD flashbacks, except this is like the lower, dumber version. And by the way, Joe, I think that that quote is from Billy Madison.

Yes, it is. I think that the-, Joe, I think that that quote is from Billy Madison. Yes, I think that the Billy Madison, Billy Madison, quote, one of my favorite quotes of all time. Yes, yes, it was Billy Madison delivered by the great Jim Downey, legendary SNL writer who was playing the principal in that scene. We'll all be on YouTube in a minute watching that in the next break. So none of the candidates last night, as we said, were asked about Donald Trump's suggestion. The outgoing chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, a four-star general spent his life in the military,

deserves to be executed for treason for communicating with his Chinese counterpart at the end of the Trump administration to let them know the nuclear arsenal was secure. General Milley, though, was asked about it in an interview for 60 Minutes. President Trump recently said that your dealings with China were so egregious that in times gone by, the punishment would have been death. That's right, he said that. That's right.

He said that. That's correct. He is suggesting that you be punished by death. The former commander in chief to his former top military advisor. Look, I'm a soldier. I've been faithful and loyal to the Constitution United States 44 and a half years. And my family and I have sacrificed greatly for this country, my mother and father before them.

And, you know, as much as these comments are directed at me, it's also directed at the institution of the military. And there's 2.1 million of us in uniform. And the American people can take it to the bank that all of us, every single one of us, from private to general, we're loyal to that Constitution and we'll never turn our back on it no matter what, no matter what the threats, no matter what the humiliation, no matter what.

If we're willing to die for that document, if we're willing to deploy to combat, if we're willing to lose an arm, a leg, an eye to protect and support and defend that document and protect the American people, then we're willing to live for it, too. So I'm not going to comment directly on those things, but I can tell you that this military, this soldier, me, will never turn our back on that Constitution. But for the record, was there anything inappropriate or treasonous about the calls you made to China? Absolutely not. Zero. None. It almost seems odd to ask this question, because the former commander-in-chief

seems to be calling for your execution. Are you worried about your safety? I've got adequate safety precautions. I wish those comments had not been made, but they were. And we'll take appropriate measures to ensure my safety and the safety of my family. Joe, that's a pretty extraordinary exchange there to see four-star General Mark Milley sitting there in his dress with the bars, his four stars, saying, you can say anything you want to do. You can talk. You can post on your social media site. You can even call for me to be executed. But I and everybody

I serve with and the millions of Americans who serve are going to continue to defend the Constitution. That's our job. That's all noise. I'll take care of my safety. Keep keep going with this. We're not going to change what we do. Yeah, I mean, it is it's it's it's so discouraging. Donald Trump has sent that signal out. It's just like the Wall Street Journal editorial page yesterday said, and many others have said yesterday that he's sending a message out. And and certainly it is possible that some crank is going to follow through on that. It's the same thing that he said about Mitch McConnell. It's the same thing he said about, well, about me. It's the same thing he said about so many people. And it does,

it is changing General Milley's life right now that he's going to need security around the clock for quite some time because Donald Trump knows exactly what he's doing. That's why he starts talking about somebody being executed or with Mitch McConnell, you know, says death wish in all caps. That's again, it's all a message. And yet and yet Charlie Sykes and nobody at Fox News last night thought that was worthy of a question to ask, even if their their their partners at the Wall Street Journal did that morning. Nobody thought it necessary to ask about banning NBC News once Donald Trump became president of the United States again, if he got elected again. Nobody thought about any of that. Nobody thought about asking something that was on the front page of all the newspapers, including the Wall Street Journal yesterday morning, which was Donald Trump is probably going to be stopped from doing business in New York state because he acted in such a fraudulent way and overvaluing his properties for bank loans. Those were all I mean, those things were all teed

up. I'm not really sure how those questions could have been asked. But more to the point, I think it's just absolute insanity. Neither the people that are running against Donald Trump didn't bring it up on stage. Couldn't I mean, those those I mean, at some point, you're going to have somebody smart enough to find another lane and challenge this guy or they're just going to meekly keep like sort of like quizlings, just sort of following behind. We have Chris Christie on today. Absolutely nothing. Well, this is the this is our life for the last seven years, the last eight years, isn't it? And by the way, the Wall Street Journal editorial, I think, is worth, you know, just spending a moment on that they were shocked, shocked to discover that all of this is going on. It is interesting. Some of the anti-anti-Trump folks

are looking around going, hey, by the way, this is like appalling. Do you understand that this guy is completely crazy and deranged and we're about to re-nominate him? And like, how did we get here? Well, we got here by exactly the kind of thing you're describing. Denial, avoidance, rationalization, you know, going into this this alternative reality where these things did not exist. They don't exist for that that audience. You know, he didn't say, you know, that Mark Milley should be executed. You know, a federal judge shutting the business down doesn't even register. The 91 felony charges doesn't even register. The 91 felony charges don't even register. And I guess, you know, this is I'm really glad that you're still focusing on this because, you know, there is a sense that we have become numb to this, that he has normalized

the language of political violence and normalizing the language of political violence can lead to the normalization of violence. And we've gone from lock her up to hang Mike Pence to let's execute General Milley. This is intentional and it is highly dangerous. And there's no reason to believe that he will not escalate this. And unfortunately, there's no reason to believe that there are not people out there who are hanging on his words and might act on it. So when you have General Milley sitting there saying, I have to take the steps to protect myself and my family, this is the reality. You have people like Mitt Romney who are spending $5,000 a week on security for their family. This is the world we are living in, and we cannot allow

ourselves to become numbed to it or to the threat that it poses to the constitutional order. numbed to it or to the threat that it poses to the constitutional order? Well, I don't know about any of you here on the set, on the show, but I'm still shocked. And I found it heartbreaking to hear General Milley having to answer to that and to deal with that and to hear that this was said about him by the Republican frontrunner and to hear him deal with this. Again, a Republican frontrunner who dodged the draft with the supposed patriot bone spurs, which never got in his way of doing anything after his father got a doctor to find bone spurs in him so he can avoid the war. He then, of course, mocks John McCain for sacrificing and leaving so much of his life behind in Vietnam, staying there.

Even when John McCain is told he can go home, he's going to stay with his band of brothers, despite the fact he's carrying injuries that will stay with him for the rest of his life. And then with General Milley, I see Donald Trump and I see other punks, and I would call them punks, punks in Congress do writing. General Milley, a man who has served this country proudly and bravely for decades, who has fought in one war zone after another war zone, has risked his life time and again to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. And some punk on some committee is yelling at him and attacking him to try to gain political points. It's grotesque. And I do wonder when my former party is going to

wake up. And I keep I keep hoping my former party is going to wake up and start respecting men and women in uniform that give their all for this country to protect and defend this country instead of a game show host who makes everything about himself before country, before constitution, before party, before people. I keep waiting for them to wake up. It's it's been a heck of a sleep. They are the Rip Van Winkle of parties. Another thing that was not brought up at the debate last night is the massive fraud case that was brought by New York Attorney General Letitia James. And boy, did she have a massive win in that with the judge making a ruling, not even needing a trial because the evidence was

so clear. So Steve Ratner is here. We are going to ask about it. Steve, what is the Trump organization's current business status in the state of New York in light of this ruling? Well, at the moment, it's in a little bit of suspended animation because Trump will appeal the ruling and this will get litigated. And I think until the litigation is ended and recognized that Trump is a master of litigation, knows how to prolong it. So it could be years. I don't think things change. But at the end of the day or what the judge has ruled should happen once it's all litigation is all resolved, is that his properties will be his business license in New York will be

voided. His properties will be put in the hands of a receiver and their job will be to liquidate them and see what's left when all that's over. And so right now, though, it appears that that suspended animation, what what happens? Are there people monitoring Trump's business? Are they allowed to still do business? What happens next week when they look at damages? Is it and also the judge seemed very frustrated with the Trump lawyers constantly trying to prolong this. So might they try and speed up the future process with this, given that they have really called them out on trying to drag this out as long as possible? Well, again, that is Trump's specialty, dragging things out.

And sure, they will try to the judge will try to shorten it. There are legal procedures that take time, rights of appeal and so forth. The New York courts are notoriously slow in moving along on some of this kind of stuff, unlike the federal courts. So I just want to be realistic and say it's probably going to be some period of time until this is resolved. And I believe, yes, until then, he can operate his properties. The judge asked both sides to nominate people to be the receiver. But whether that person actually can exercise any influence until these appeals are exhausted, I think is not is not going to happen. So, Steve, the central part of this fraud is the overvaluation of his properties.

Trump Tower, Seven Springs Estate up in Westchester. You have a chart that shows that. So just for the layman, what's the benefit of his overvaluing these so wildly, by the way? Well, the benefit is that he wanted to borrow a lot of money. And so the more collateral you have, the more money you can borrow and the cheaper you can borrow it at. And so it was in his interest to wildly inflate. He's put aside his own ego, of course, which drives him to inflate things just for the fun of it. But from the standpoint of borrowing money, if you say you've got a house that's worth $300 million, you're going to borrow more money and you're going to borrow it at lower rates than if you say,

well, you know, it's really only worth $30 million, which are the kinds of things he was doing. Is there no one along the way, like at the bank, who says, I don't think that's a $327 million apartment, sir? Well, I guess not. And that is one of the questions people in my world have been sort of asking is how the banks could have relied on this or believed it or whatever. But if you look at if you look at the numbers, they're really quite extraordinary. I mean, he valued Mar-a-Lago at over six hundred million dollars. It is it's relative to the twenty seven million that the judge said. And by the way, when Mar-a-Lago was a tax assessed to $26 million a few years ago,

Trump fought that and said it was too high. So Mar-a-Lago is worth more than $26 million. And, John, we should point out that Eric Trump two days ago valued it at $1 billion. Just he was eyeballing it, back of the envelope. Yeah, it's a family tradition to clearly exaggerate the wealth here. So, Steve, were this to happen, were his business certificates taken? We don't know that's going to happen. And he can't do business in New York. Where does that leave him? I mean, he does have properties elsewhere. He has some overseas. Would those

be vulnerable potentially to fraud charges brought elsewhere? And whether they are or not, does Trump org, as we know it, even exist? Well, no, the whole the point of this would be Trump org as it exists would be dissolved. The assets would be sold. The banks would get paid off and whatever's left he and his family would get. And they could start all over again somewhere that would allow them to do business. I don't know whether if he had if he committed bank fraud in other jurisdictions, then sure, he could be prosecuted in those. Although I suspect most of his activities were in the banking system in New York. But this is the bulk. These are the bulk probably of his assets.

So he would not be left with a lot of other stuff to play with, so to speak. Yeah, Steve, let me ask you, I'm curious about where the procedure of this. And if you don't know the answer to this, we will look it up and tell you later. But where does the judge decide that, what part of this process is the process where we learned that Donald Trump can no longer operate his business in New York?

Is that in the damages part of the hearing? Or is that something the judge has already determined and and we'll have to wait, wait for the appeal? The judge has already determined that the judge ruled and the ruling itself was quite extraordinary because it was a ruling from the bench before there was a trial, which is very unusual. In fact, Trump had moved to dismiss the whole case, what they call summary judgment, and never expected that it would end up going absolutely the other way, where the judge would not only dismiss that request or claim, but then impose this ruling, which is really

unprecedented, I think, on a couple of levels. First, the fact that it was ruled from the bench before there was even a trial. And secondly, this whole process of appointing a receiver and putting the businesses into receivership and so on is something that you see for like organized crime or low level ne'er-do-wells who shouldn't be doing business anywhere. This is I don't believe there's ever been a case of someone of this of these means and stature and so forth, who's had his properties essentially taken away from him. Well, you know, I've got to say, Willie and I take that last statement. Low level ne'er do wells. Personally, I, Willie, he's obviously referring to our glue

gun business of 1987. I'm telling you, we got Ronco to buy in on this thing. And for a while, it looked like we were going to compete with a knife set. So Steve, there were monitors that were put in place looking at... Wait, Willie's going to say... Okay, go ahead, Willie. Don't hate the play, hate the game. Ronco, go. No, that was on us. We went in business with Ron Popeil, should be an automatic winner. The idea wasn't perfect. And we regret a lot of things from the from the 80s, including that project that you pitched, Ronco. It was a lot of regrets, a lot of regrets from the 80s. We won't even get into the Cessna I bought down in the Keys. But go ahead. 86 Mets were with us. It was a whole thing. Steve, there were monitors put in place to kind of assess what was going on in Trump or by the judge. And apparently those monitors were ignored. They were not given information.

They Trump people completely cut them out. Will they be more aggressive monitoring? And also a little bit of conjecture. Could there be collateral consequences to this while it's on appeal, where people don't want to do business with someone who's found liable of massive fraud across the board? Sure. Look, this is obviously terrible for his business and his business prospects. I would say that a lot of people, of course, stopped doing business with Trump for many reasons over the last few years. There are buildings in New York, in fact, where his name has been taken off of it because nobody would go there because it was a Trump building. He's already suffered a fair amount of damage. But this, of course, makes it just that much worse. And yeah, I think that I think he's going to find himself with a judge who clearly means business and is going to say you're going to have

to cooperate. You're going to provide what you have to provide. You're going to have to stop stalling and let's get on with this. But again, we have a system and he will have the right of appeal. All right. It's all very important. Steve Ratner, thank you so much. He's greatly, greatly appreciate you being here, even if he's insulting Willie and me. I listen. I mean, listen, we're used to it. We had the glue gun business with Ronco. Now what? We had the Cessna. We had that Cessna business. It didn't go well, but I thought an 86 people would want

tours of Columbia. It didn't work out well, but we did fine. I will say, I will say, Willie, we did kind of give the 86 Mets the boost they needed up and down the lineup to get through the season. They won it all.

Hate to bring it up, Lemire. Yeah, come on, guys. Thanks a lot. They won it all. I hate to have been a part of that. All right. God knows we were in the clubhouse. Don't run.

We can walk into the clubhouse anytime we want to make it. It was great. They loved us. Still ahead on Morning Show. You know what Alex just told me? Right into LaGuardia. I have the power to end this. All right. We'll have much more from last night.

I mean, there are a couple of players. I mean, jeez. Last night's Republican primary debate, including Chris Christie's new nickname for Donald Trump. The former New Jersey governor will be our guest. We've got a lot of questions for him. Plus, we'll have live reporting from Michigan, where instead of joining his opponents on the debate stage, Trump made his pitch to striking auto workers from a manufacturing facility of a non-unionized auto parts company.

Also ahead, we'll be joined by two Democratic members of the Republican-led House Oversight Committee as the panel prepares to hold its first impeachment inquiry hearing surrounding President Biden. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. Honestly, every time I hear you, I feel a little bit dumber for what you say. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. Oh, I always love a beautiful shot of the Capitol. It is 637 a.m. on the East Coast. And in just hours, the Republican led House Oversight Committee will hold its first impeachment hearing on President Biden. The New York Times reports that top House Republicans are eyeing potential impeachment

charges of bribery and abuse of power while trying to tie the president to his son, Hunter Biden's foreign business dealings. Yeah, but you see, they haven't been able to do that. They've tried time and again, and they keep looking stupid. I mean, the guy running the committee has asked you, I mean, he goes, well, I hope we can find something. That's really, they've got the cart before the horse there, Mika. Yeah, we're hearing from senior House officials familiar with their plans. The Times points out that lawmakers do not have evidence of either potential charge and House

Republicans have struggled to link any of Hunter Biden's business dealings to his father, which they haven't been able to do now for years. Shouldn't they be able to do that by the time there's an impeachment inquiry? If you want to impeach the president of the United States, you probably need evidence first. OK, so they don't have that or get anywhere close to revealing proof of high crimes and misdemeanors that don't have that yet, Willie. So leading up to today's impeachment hearing, kind of an extraordinary moment where the House Ways and Means Committee voted yesterday along party lines to release 700 pages of documents from IRS whistleblowers regarding Hunter Biden's business dealings. Republican Committee Chair Jason Smith in Missouri pointed to a June 6th, 2017.

Remember that date, June 6th, 2017. What's that message in which Hunter Biden wrote to a business associate that he was not willing to, quote, sign over my family's brand. Smith cited that message as, quote, evidence of corruption and misconduct. Well, NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent, our colleague Ryan Nobles, followed up on that 2017 date, seeking clarification about the timing of the message leading to this exchange with the Republican congressman. And then the WhatsApp message you have, I believe, is dated June 6, 2017. Joe Biden is not vice president or even a candidate for president at that time.

So where is the direct connection to some sort of criminal malfeasance within these two pieces of evidence? Well, I think the facts speak for themselves. There's over 700 pages of examples of where people should be very concerned. Can you explain the timing then of the August 6th WhatsApp message? Why is that evidence of some wrongdoing? I'm not an expert on the timeline. I would love to have President Biden and his family to tell us about all the timelines because it's really, really unfortunate that we see so many meetings and so many phone calls that involved around official activity that the vice president has been participating in. And then big sums of money follows later. But if he's not the president or the vice president at that time, where where's the wrongdoing? He wasn't even a candidate for president at that time.

He was a candidate. In August 6th of 2017? What source are you with? I'm with NBC. So apparently you'll never believe us. I'm not saying I don't believe you. I'm asking you a very direct question. You presented a piece of evidence that you say came on August 6, 2017, that demonstrates that Joe Biden was using political influence to help his son. If he wasn't a political figure at that time, the first WhatsApp message you put up where you talk about the brand.

And I'm not I'm here. I'm my my I'm completely open minded about this. I'm asking you specifically, how does that demonstrate that there's some sort of political influence being put over him? If at that time he is not a political he's not an elected official. I'm definitely not going to pinpoint one item. I think we've outlined presented it. It was your first thing that you brought up. So apparently you don't agree with it. So it's not that I don't agree with that. I'm asking you to explain. I'll take the next question. How deeply pathetic was that? Wow. That's Ryan Nobles, our NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent. Excellent. Doing his job, pushing on a question. This is the centerpiece. This was headlines across other networks over the last couple of days and on websites. This what's that message making some suggestion that the Biden family

brand was being peddled. Again, Joe Biden was neither president, vice president or candidate on that date. And in fact, that tech WhatsApp message is a suggestion, again, not evidence or a direct link. I mean, it's like me taking a risk board to the local kennel down here and asking a group of dogs if they want to play risk. It's just not a fair fight. I mean, these guys are so dumb. I mean, it's and they bring up this. This keeps happening. I know.

Time and time again. Charlie, this keeps happening where they lead with something, then find out there's no connection there. They look like fools and then they blame the media. I mean, we go we keep going back to that FBI tape recording and you have, you know, Grassley going, I don't care if he's guilty or not. And you have Republicans saying we're going to impeach the FBI director. We're going to do this. And then they find out there's absolutely nothing there. They start screaming about a missing informant. Oh, I can't find the informant. The informant's missing. Oh, what have they done with the informant?

Well, it ends up the informant's an international fugitive. They got busted for being an agent of China, got busted for illegally selling Iranian oil to the Communist Chinese Party, illegally dealing in arms. I mean, this keeps happening. This is the gang that couldn't shoot straight. And it just really does, doesn't it? Just underline just how stupid their efforts are to try to try to bust Hunter Biden and Joe Biden. Well, that's why your comment about the dogs was unfair to dogs, because, you know, I have had a German shepherd beat me before in risk. So good point. My German shepherd would not make this this mistake.

I mean, part of this is it is so cringeworthy to watch that exchange. I mean, Ryan Nobles, you know, asked the direct questions and he's saying, OK, can you be specific? Because, you know, evidence is about specific facts, right? I mean, there is this cloud of sleeves out there. There's no question about it. But when you try to pin them down, where is the evidence? What is the timeline? And clearly, the guy they pushed through the curtain to come up with their big piece of evidence had no idea. He was clearly unprepared.

He was unprepared to answer that question. He didn't know when Joe Biden was vice president, Charlie. You know, he's saying it's media bias if you bring up the fact that Joe Biden wasn't vice president or president in 2017. Like this is a perfect example of somebody who's now thinking that facts are biased when in fact they're just facts that show his arguments really stupid. Well, this is what happens when you spend all your time in a bubble, when you get out of the bubble and when you're in the bubble, all of this makes sense, right? You're constantly in that echo chamber. You step out of the bubble and somebody says, can I just ask you about that dazzling piece of evidence you just presented that actually makes no sense whatsoever? And clearly, Jason Smith did not know when Joe Biden was in office or what was going on in 2017, which is awkward. And the fact that they are so unprepared on the day that they're about to launch the impeachment inquiry.

Well, that's an interesting tale, isn't it? Yeah. Biden, of course, not vice president in 2017 and not a declared candidate for the presidency again until 2019. So there's nothing there on that date flagged by our colleague Ryan Robles. But at least we can't say this enough. The Republicans have not yet provided any evidence that links the president to his son's business dealings. There's no sense here that he misused the power of any office to this point. But yet the impeachment inquiry is going forth anyway. The first hearing is today. Do you think this in terms of the politics of this? And it's so deeply cynical. It's so deeply cynical. But the politics of this could still be effective for Republicans.

Is it going to be enough of a whataboutism to distract from all the problems, legal problems facing Donald Trump? Republicans are counterprogramming. And I guarantee that any disclaimers about this impeachment process and that there is no actual wrongdoing against President Biden himself going that's been proved and has been put forward as evidence yet. That's not getting covered in news and other news silos. So you have Republican voters who are getting one bit of content and you have the rest of the country getting another bit of content. And so it doesn't really matter. And they get to talk about that as Trump's legal troubles will be covered in other mainstream outlets. Wow. What a show this morning. I'm a head is spinning, still stuck on the Mark Milley stuff,

but we're going to talk more about that. Hey, Charlie, let me just say, Charlie, congratulations, Milwaukee, a sports town that just just I mean you guys keep punching above your weight no Milwaukee Brewers uh clinch again I'm gonna be there well you know first playoff game next Tuesday night fun Charlie must be really exciting to live in one of these big market towns where your teams get to go to the playoffs every year. Well, Willie and Lamere and I follow these mid to small market teams. I don't know. Get new attention.

We're just in it for the love of the game. And to lose. If they build it. And to lose. Okay. One other note on Milwaukee for Charlie. They traded for Damian Lillard, one of the best players in the NBA yesterday. So now you've got Giannis and Lillard on the same team.

But to your point, Joe, the Yankees last night, you know, we're down Red Sox-Yankees just fighting for scraps at the bottom of the division. Yankees clinched fourth place last night, and we're awful proud about that. So we will not finish in last place. Garrett Cole clinched probably the Cy Young. Aaron George hit two home runs, and we locked up fourth, John. Yeah, and who did clinch last place. Garrett Cole clinched probably the Cy Young. Aaron George hit two home runs. And we locked up fourth, John. Yeah. And who did clinch last place?

The Boston Red Sox, who also are now assured of yet another losing record. They lost their 82nd game last night, so they will finish under.500. Another disappointing and long winter ahead, Joe. I'll get on the Brewer bandwagon.

Back in the Fenway neighborhood of Boston. But, yeah, to Willie's point, Damon Lillard, I mean, he's rumored all summer long to be going to the Miami Heat. Stunning in a three-team trade that involved the Phoenix Suns. He goes to Milwaukee now. He and Giannis will be one of the NBA favorites. I mean, and Red Sox last place, I think three out of the four last year. And, you know, the Yankees may have Garrett Cole who locked down the Cy Young Award.

But last night, the Red Sox, we caught a black cat that had escaped from right field and had him had him boxed up by the end of the third inning. Okay. So that's what we got going for us. All right. Go, go socks. Thank you so much. Socks nation for being on the show this morning, coming up on morning, Joe. Yeah, baby. Oh, look at this stuff. All right. We will explain what was behind the surprise jam session featuring Secretary of State Anthony Blinken. Playing guitar and singing the blues last night at the state department

good morning joe we'll be right back you have 6.2 billion for ukraine um they do nothing to secure our southern border that is just a non-starter. The Senate needs to get real. You've all seen the images of the southern border. It has to stop immediately. And this government should not continue to be funded if we don't secure our border. Mr. President, a vote against a standard short-term funding measure is a vote against paying over a billion dollars in salary

for Border Patrol and ICE agents working to track down lethal fentanyl and tame our open borders. You know, Mitch is right. I mean, at least when you defund the government, you're defunding a billion. You're defunding, first of all, ICE. You're defunding the border agents. You're defunding the agencies that that have any control over what's going on. These people are fighting day and night to try to bring order out of chaos. And what the House Republicans are doing, according to Mitch McConnell, anybody who actually knows what's going on there, they're about they talked about defunding the FBI. Now they're talking about defunding the border agents and defunding ICE. Joe, and you know who's going to get blamed? Republicans. They are going to take the blame if this shutdown happens and if so many American government workers don't get paychecks, if military is not funded,

if so many trains aren't able to run on time because there is a government shutdown, it's going to be very inconvenient for some people. It's going to be, you know, life threatening for others. And look at what's happening on the border. If you take what's happening on the border seriously, as so many Republicans claim they do, then they need to keep the government running. Yeah. And I mean, this is the thing that we found when we shut down the government in early 96 is, you know, you're trying to make a political point. And then you start finding out a week into it, two weeks into it, just how devastating it is for so many people, for Republicans, for independents, for Democrats. And you're really you're you're you're messing with the health and the safety and the welfare

of hundreds of millions of people. So this is something, again, that these Republicans who think they're making a point could actually ask people who've been through it before that are on the Hill right now. And they'd say this never turns out well for Republicans. I mean, they must know that. Always hurts the Republican Party. It's almost as if these people want to be in the minority, because I know the types who'd rather be in the minority because they can be bomb throwers,

rhetorical bomb throwers, and probably raise more money off of social media and online if they're just lobbing bombs and don't have to worry about actually governing. They're not serious people. All right. Straight.