Morning Joe - Morning Joe 9/5/24

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

Liz Cheney endorses Kamala Harris for president 

I don't believe that we have the luxury of writing in candidates' names, particularly in swing states. And as a conservative, as someone who believes in and cares about the Constitution, I have thought deeply about this, and because of the danger that Donald Trump poses, not only am I not voting for Donald Trump, but I will be voting for Kamala Harris. Former Congresswoman Liz Cheney becoming the latest high profile Republican to endorse Vice President Kamala Harris for president. She made those comments yesterday during an appearance at Duke University. The Harris campaign welcomed Cheney's support, calling her a, quote, patriot who loves this country and puts our democracy and our constitution first.

You know, that's actually, Willie, that's that's what's at issue here. We're not talking really about ideology of either of these candidates, in large part, because Donald Trump has no ideology. And they are both racing to the center. So the lines are getting blurred. But, you know, somebody in the Republican Party who may attack Liz Cheney. Oh, my gosh. Oh, so you're you're you're going to abandon your pro life position like Donald Trump. So you talk about like Donald Trump abandoning his right in front of our eyes. No, not really. She's just voting for democracy. She's voting that the Constitutional Republic endures with Madisonian checks and balances.

Then they go, well, what about the southern border? The southern border is, are you going to abandon that issue? Like Donald Trump, who killed the toughest bill ever? I mean, you know, the deficit. What about the deficit? I thought you were a small government conservative. Donald Trump, biggest deficits ever, biggest debt ever, biggest federal budget ever when when he was in office. So, again, it's not this is not about ideology because Donald Trump is not a conservative.

Something I've been saying here since 2015. He doesn't talk like a conservative. He's he's abandoned conservatives on the issues that matter to them the most. So at this point, are you for a personality cult? Do you want to be in a personality cult or do you want the republic to endure? That's what it comes down to as far as the republic as we have known it with Madisonian democracy and checks and balances. And Liz Cheney chose Madisonian democracy. It shouldn't be a shock. Yeah, that's the interesting thing. It's not shocking that she's come out and said this, although she didn't have to make an affirmative vote for Kamala Harris the way she said she will.

She could have just said, I'm not voting for Donald Trump, but she believes the race is too important. It will be too close to throw away a vote in her eyes. What is shocking, Joe, though, is that yours and hers among actual conservatives now is a minority position, which is to say most Republicans, most people who call themselves conservatives now or were conservatives, but really are just Trump supporters now. They are going along for the ride with all the things you just laid out, all the contradictions that Donald Trump presents to conservatives, all the flip flopping on core issues like abortion, the debt and the deficit, immigration, all of those things.

What she's saying is not only has Donald Trump flip flopped on that, but he represents something that is so counter not just to conservatism, but to the American way of life, to democracy that she's got to stand in the door. And Mike, I guess the only surprise to me over these last whatever it's been since January 6th, when she officially really took the lead on that investigation, along with many Democrats, is that more Republicans haven't taken that door that was presented on January 6th and said he has abandoned us. He has left us. He has led us down this disastrous path. We have no choice but to oppose him. But again, she, Adam Kinzinger, are the Republicans

still in the minority among conservatives, among Republicans. Most of the conservative Republicans seem to be afraid to open that door. Liz Cheney was unafraid yesterday, and you just alluded to what she said when she said one of the reasons that she's voting for Kamala Harris or will vote for Kamala Harris is the danger that Donald Trump represents, the danger that Donald Trump represents. And it's kind of shocking given his record, given his rhetoric, given everything he posts on his crazy social media channel, Truth Social, whatever it's called. It's so vulgar, so opposite to what this country stands for, so opposite to

what people look forward to in an election. The election's about the future. Donald Trump is about the past. But he represents a true danger to the fabric of this culture of ours, this society of ours, and to the institutions that represent our government. Well, and, you know, he talks about, we can talk about January 6th and the insurrection. We can talk about the fact that he said, and his lawyers argued, right? Because usually when he says something outrageous, like he's gonna be a dictator from day one,

people go, oh, he's just joking. And then of course he doubles down and proves he's not joking. And those people are left looking stupid as always. But his lawyer in court argued that he could assassinate political rivals, assassinate political rivals with still Team Six and still still not have the law arresting that he that he's immune from that. He talks about being a dictator from day one, talks about terminating the Constitution,

lied about the election results, tried to undermine American democracy for years. And then yesterday or the day before, suddenly he says, oh, wait a second, maybe I just lost by a whisker. You know, on and on and on. But you look, and again, this is a party divided against itself. When you have Liz

Cheney, who had a 95 ACU lifetime rating, me, I had a 95 ACU lifetime rating. It's higher than most everybody else. You have Adam Kinzinger, who served this country proudly as a conservative. David French. You have people who have been conservative their entire life saying we can't go there because this is not any other election. This is about the future of this country and how our governments run. Well, and we need a strong conservative Republican Party. And that is not Donald Trump or the party that he is leading, not even close. And a lot of people we've met, some Republicans who over the summer and spent time with them who voted for Trump and can't anymore because their

belief is a vote for Kamala Harris is a vote for potentially the Republican Party ultimately having a chance to rebuild itself. But it only can do that without Donald Trump. And that's what Jonathan Martin was. We're going to be talking about this later. Jonathan Martin reported on this in Politico yesterday that there are Republicans, more and more Republicans, secretly helping Donald Trump loses because they believe that's their best chance and lose big. That's their best chance to reform the Republican Party. But make no mistake of it. Wherever we go, wherever our friends go, we hear people spouting talking points from other news networks, lies and the most ridiculous lies that are disconnected from reality that keeps them in this personality cult of Donald

Trump's. And so this is going to be a really close election. Make no mistake of it. Yeah. And we're going to speaking of lies, our top story today, also with us, managing editor at The Bulwark, Sam Stein, who did way too early for us this morning. And we'll break through the lies. Good to have you with us. Speaking of lies. No. Here's Sam.

No, no. Speaking of lies. No. Here's Sam. No, no. Speaking of lies. Sorry. The Biden administration is accusing Russia of attempting to interfere in the upcoming presidential election. The Justice Department has charged two employees of a Russian-backed media network, accusing them of illegally funneling millions of dollars to a Tennessee-based company to publish propaganda videos online. The DOJ has also seized 32 Internet domains.

It says the Russian government and Russian actors have used to influence the U.S. election. Here's some of what Attorney General Merrick Garland said yesterday about the actions the U.S. is clear. We have no tolerance for attempts by authoritarian regimes to exploit our democratic system of government. We will be relentlessly aggressive in countering and disrupting attempts by Russia and Iran, as well as China or any other foreign malign actor to interfere in our elections and undermine our democracy. Yeah. You know, Willie, the thing that is is so, well, obvious about this, not surprising, is we've all seen it for several years. There are people who are deliberately or unknowknowingly, are unknowingly promoting Russian propaganda. Propaganda that comes straight from the Kremlin. People whose TV shows have been pushed by the Kremlin to go on RT because they are spouting Russian propaganda points. There have been people that we've seen on Twitter for years,

well-known people with big followings who are clearly, clearly pushing Russian propaganda points. Of course, one of the great ironies about this is not really an irony. It's just cynicism. And it's and it's just unfortunately un-American. These are the same people that get out, a lot of them, that get out and talk about the Russian hoax. Oh, it's the Russian. Oh, there's a there's no. Come on. What are you talking about? There's no connection between, you know, this and Russia and Russia is not trying to always apologizing for Russia, always apologizing for Putin, always claiming that that Vladimir Putin is not the bad guy. That Zelensky is actually the bad guy. Like the historian who said, oh, Churchill's the bad guy in World War Two, not Adolf Hitler. Like this, this has been going on for years. The kids call it gaslighting. And now we found out at least a few but also who are perceived as truth tellers outside the mainstream media. You're not

getting the real story. You're not getting the true story. Come to my YouTube channel and I'll tell you the truth. Well, it turns out some of those prominent among them were complete dupes for the Russian government. RT, which is the staterun media in Russia, was directly feeding and spending a lot of money to American influencers on the conservative side to feed this nonsense,000 a month, plus a $100,000 signing bonus, along with performance incentives, just for making four videos a week for a Tennessee-based company. Another unnamed commentator was paid $100,000 per video. That's to take the propaganda

and put it on their outlets for Americans to consume. For more on this, let's bring in NBC News justice and intelligence correspondent Ken Delanian and NBC News chief international correspondent Keir Simmons. Good morning to you both. Ken, I'll start with you. So lay out, if you can, what DOJ says happened here and how exactly it worked, how this information got from RT, a Russian state media organization, into the hands and onto the channels of these conservative influencers here in the U.S. Hey, good morning, Willie. Good morning, everyone. Yeah, it's a remarkable scheme. Ten million dollars is how much the Justice Department says was funneled into this

one Tennessee company that's been identified as Tenant Media. These guys were making a lot of money. And when I asked on a DOJ background call, what was the impact here? How many Americans did this propaganda reach? They said, look, it's really hard to gauge, but like this company in a short time amassed 16 million views for its videos on YouTube. So it had an effect. And some experts are saying they only need one or two videos to go viral, to have a real impact on American politics. So what's very clear from the indictment, despite, as you said, people calling this part of the Russia hoax, you read the indictment, it's very clear there's a mountain of evidence that RT and these Russian executives

were funneling money secretly to these American conservatives who founded this organization in Tennessee. And then they were then creating videos and taking their cues from RT, particularly on things like the Russian line on the Ukraine war, and pumping it out to the American public without mentioning that this was Russian propaganda. And now the Americans in this scheme are not charged. It's the two Russians who are in Russia. But the U.S. actually acted more broadly yesterday beyond just this indictment. And they seized 32 Internet domains that have been used by the Russians for propaganda. They also sanctioned other people, including the chief editor of RT, who's a longtime Putin crony. The good news here, the interesting thing about this is it shows how much has changed

since 2016 when the U.S. government and the FBI essentially watched helplessly as the Russians interfered in that election, both by spouting false narratives on social media and by hacking and leaking and dumping material into the bloodstream. Now they're much more proactive. This thing started only really less than a year ago. It really launched in November 2023. And it looks like the FBI was onto them almost from the start and they carefully amassed evidence. And now they're blowing the whistle on it. Likewise, the Iranian attempts to hack into the campaigns, they flagged those right away. And so far,

we haven't seen any great impact from that. But it also shows how much more complicated the media ecosystem is than back in 2016. There are so many people now so prepared to believe what this Russian propaganda is saying. And then when the government flags it, go online now. These same people are saying this is a lie. You can't believe this Justice Department indictment. This is all part of the Russia hoax. So it's a tough problem. But the FBI and the Justice Department are trying to get out there in front of it. You know, Ken, it's fascinating as you read through the indictment, how the propaganda that the Russian government, that RT was pushing into these conservative channels, echoes and went through to the leadership of the Republican Party, to talking points we heard from members of Congress, even from Donald Trump, about what would happen if the United States continued to

support Ukraine, that American soldiers were going to die. We heard that from members of Congress talking about white people under attack in America, talking about transgender people, all these wedge issues, clearly to help Donald Trump and obviously attacks on Vice President Harris and President Biden as well. Yeah, it's remarkable. And this is the thorny issue, right, for the law enforcement community. The First Amendment protects that speech and it protects Americans who want to lie or say whatever they want to say. The issue here, the reason this became a crime is because it was a secret Russian government effort and they violated the Foreign Agents Registration Act, allegedly. You know, this old law that never used to be enforced that now the government is breathing

new life into because there are these secret efforts by our adversaries to co-opt essentially a huge chunk of the American political stratosphere and sort of inject their narratives into the bloodstream. And, you know, it's really, really tough for the government to get a handle on. But yesterday we saw what looks like their best efforts. And they said, look, this investigation is continuing. We're going to keep at this up and through the November election. So, Keir Simmons, you cover Russia very closely. What has been the reaction there? The Justice Department is saying clearly that Vladimir Putin and Russia in this indictment favored Donald Trump winning this election. What have you heard from Moscow? Well, Russia is promising retaliation.

They've railed about the treatment of RT, this Russian broadcast network, for a long time. So we'll see what that retaliation is. But Joe talked at the top there about gaslighting, about trolling, and we're seeing plenty of that. So RT issuing a statement that literally says, ha, ha, ha, ha. And meanwhile, look, I mean, Margarita Simonyan, who Ken was referring to there, who's the editor-in-chief of RT, her connections to the Russian government, I's the editor-in-chief of RT. Her connections to the Russian government, I mean, they've been hiding in plain sight. Well, not even hiding. I mean, a Justice Department report just a few years ago was clear about that.

When two men were accused of the Salisbury poisoning, alleged to be GRU officers, they turned up those men on RT, interviewed by Margarita Simon-Yan. And we know about her relationship, her connection to President Putin. So I don't think any of that is really a surprise. We have heard from President Putin today. He was talking in Russia's Far East, in Vladivostok. We haven't heard from him specifically about these allegations,

but he was asked about the US elections. And you know, you ask about what Russia's view, and by that we really mean, don't we, President Putin's view of the American elections are. And I think we have to go back to the trolling and the gaslighting that Joe referred to at the beginning there. Take a listen to what he had to say on this panel in Russia's Far East just today. It's been long since I've called any leaders of Europe or the U.S., but we're not against any type of contacts. We're not limiting them. Yes, sometimes we exchange some kind of information using different channels. First of all, through the foreign ministry, it's not for us to determine.

These are elections of the U.S. people. I said that if we can name a favorite candidate, it used to be Joe Biden, but now he is not participating in the election campaign. And he recommended all his allies to support Ms. Harris. So that is what we are going to do. So here's and there's laughter at the end of those comments. And that's the thing about President Putin. You never know when he's trolling, when he's gaslighting, when he's being serious, when he's joking. And he kind of, he revels in that to say that he supports Kamala Harris. But then he goes on in those comments to talk about her laugh and refer to

those, you know, MAGA talking points about Kamala Harris's laugh. So what does that tell you? I think one of the things it tells you is that actually Putin's main objective is to try to sow chaos, that he wants to see America struggling. That really is, no matter who is president, I think that is his guiding light, if you like.

And another aspect is, it's really interesting, isn't it? He's paying very, very close attention. For him to talk about Kamala Harris's laugh in a public forum like that indicates that he's not just giving a cursory look to the U.S. elections. He is digging in and reading and reading stuff online. And I think that tells you, in reality, how important the U.S. elections are to Putin and to Russia. Yeah, that is some Olympic level trolling.

NBC's Keir Simmons, thank you so much. Greatly appreciate it. Talk to Keith McCallum, LeHarris, please. You know, Mike Barnicle, it's's again, it hasn't made sense. And so I've always said it's something that I told my kids. Something doesn't make sense. There's a reason. Sort through it. We've seen what's happened here. But there have also been conservatives, former conservatives who who have taken a pro Putin line over the past several years, who have darted wildly from where they used

to be. Progressives who have suddenly over the past several years taken a pro-Putin line. And you sit there with a couple of them. I was going, God, how obvious can you be parroting Russian talking points? But they've done it. They've done it without shame. And then at least in this instance, we find out they've done it, making $100,000 per video. You know, Joe, the interesting aspect of this story and the way it's playing out, and just from the reporters you just listened to from Kier Simmons and others is this is an infection implanted into the American political system if you talk to people ordinary people they will bemoan the fact that our state of politics today is just so polarized that both parties hate

one another that no one no one is cooperating with one of them there's no across the aisle cooperation the way they used to be 20, 30 years ago. All of that is true, but the point is that it's done, and it's a deadly sequence committed by Russia. And if you listen to many conservative Republicans, not all of them, but many conservative Republicans in the House and the Senate, they do indeed parrot Russian propaganda. They dress it up.

They change the verbiage. But it's Russian propaganda. And it lasts. And the infection lasts. And it's one of the reasons why people, I think, despise our politics here today. Average Americans walking around saying, you know, they just can't get together. They hate each other. Well, they don't hate each other. But one side more than the other is parodying Russian propaganda.

Well, and Sam, people have said long before this indictment, they've actually got statements from some some shows and then statements from Russia and compared the two. And it's almost a direct lift. And so, yeah, you actually have conservatives, a lot of so-called conservatives that have been parroting these talking points of Putin. You have conservative people, conservative organizations, people that used to be actually significant in the conservative movement, are being basically paid off by Orban in Hungary. And what do they do?

They go over, they parrot pro-Putin, pro-Orban, anti-Western democracy statements, and at least these people, and yes, some in Hungary, get paid for it. Yeah, I thought Willie touched on the most interesting point here, which is that these are the people who are the most vocal, or tend to be the most vocal, in saying that you're all delusional if you think Russia's trying to influence the U.S. elections, that all this is all hoax.

And it turns out, perhaps unwittingly, they were part of it, right? The other thing that stuck out to me is this is like a relatively small investment that had a pretty big impact for Russia if this indictment is to be believed. I mean, a couple tens of millions of dollars, and you get to pump the stuff into the American bloodstream. You get to reach millions upon millions of people. And you get to pump the stuff into the American bloodstream, you get to reach millions upon millions of people, and you get to basically turn the rhetoric of a major political party in your direction, that's a really good ROI. And this is just how we will operate in the future

because our media ecosystem, our information ecosystem is balkanized. It's diffused. There aren't really guardrails or trusted actors anymore. And so it's really easy to get this stuff out there and change the conversation. Whereas, you know, in the pre-intern age, this type of stuff would not have been possible. Well, and Mika, like I said, the, you have way too many people that just believe absolutely everything they see on other TV networks and believe absolutely everything they read on Twitter. And they live and breathe that in that disinformation. That is the soundtrack of their lives. All right. We're going to turn now to yesterday's deadly shooting at a high school in Georgia.

It happened in the morning at Apalachee High School, which is about 45 miles away from Atlanta. Police say a 14-year-old student, 14, killed four people and injured at least nine others. It's believed he used what authorities say is a, quote, AR platform style weapon. Students and teachers had to shelter in classrooms and were eventually evacuated to the football stadium. Two students died in the gunfire, Mason Schermerhorn and Christian Angulo. Two teachers were also killed, Richard Aspinwall and Christina Irimi. All of those injured are expected to survive. Police say two school resource officers found the suspect minutes after shots were fired. The suspect surrendered immediately

and was taken into custody. He is now being charged as an adult with murder. Joining us now from Winder, Georgia, is NBC News correspondent Priya Shrethar. Priya, what's the latest officials there are telling you? Good morning. Yes. Well, one of the most significant developments overnight that we discovered is that the suspect was actually known to law enforcement previously. The FBI was aware of him since May of last year when he was a 13-year-old student here. They even conducted interviews with his father who said to them that he did keep hunting rifles inside of their home, but that the suspect, now 14-year-old Colt Gray, didn't have unsupervised access to those weapons. Now, here in Georgia, there is no minimum age requirement as far as who can have access to rifles or shotguns.

But, of course, in this scenario, we know that authorities are telling us that the weapon that was used was actually an AR-style weapon, as you mentioned. And we don't have any further information about exactly how 14-year-old Colt Gray got the weapon. There's also no indication about what his motive could be. We did ask authorities if he knew the victims in this shooting, and they said that they weren't sure if there was potentially a direct connection between the shooter and the victims. The school here will be closed for the rest of the week as authorities will be conducting interviews with the suspect,

his family members, and of course, eyewitnesses. They did mention that they already have been speaking to Colt Gray's family members, but they couldn't give us any further details or insight as to a motive. There was a vigil that was held here last night. Of course, the community is mourning. Governor Kemp also visited the school last night. Let's take a listen to what he had to say. This is everybody's worst nightmare. And I just want to offer my sincere condolences and our thoughts and prayers to the families that have lost loved ones, for those that are injured and continuing to fight through just a tragic time for really this whole community that's been affected by today's actions. And of the remaining nine gunshot victims, we do know that one of them is a teacher. The other eight are students and they all are all expected to make a full recovery.

Willie. NBC's Priya Shrether live for us in Georgia. Priya, thanks so much. Before, Ken, we get back to the human tragedy that is this school shooting, another one, a couple of law enforcement points to make on your beat. Number one, these school resource officers inside the school, according to that timeline, engaged this kid really quickly and got him to drop his weapon and surrender before he could do any more damage and take any more lives. Also, some contact we heard from the GBI, the Georgia Bureau of Investigations, last year with this young man when he was 13 years old about making some online threats. What happened there?

That's right, Willie. The FBI and the Jackson County Sheriff's Office put out a joint statement last night acknowledging that in May of last year, the FBI's National Threats Operations Center got a series of online tips, anonymous tips, that there were threats made on a gaming site about potentially someone carrying out a school shooting. And they traced those threats back to this individual. And the Jackson County Sheriff went and interviewed his father. And his father said that he had rifles, hunting rifles in the home, but that the child did not have unsupervised access. And they closed the case and they found no probable cause to take further action. This is heartbreaking and infuriating because it's happened time and time again. Now, in fairness to law enforcement, there are a lot of people who make threats who never carry them out. They're inundated with threats, threat information, and we don't see the ones that don't come to fruition. But time and time again, in these mass shootings, it turns out that the shooter had previous contact with law enforcement and in many cases the FBI.

I reported on a school shooting in New Mexico back in 2017, where the FBI actually sent agents to interview the shooter and the future shooter and his parents, did a threat assessment, decided he didn't pose a threat, left, took no further action. And a year later, he shot two students at a school in New Mexico. In this case, you have to wonder, was the school even notified about a potential threat? There are things that can be done short of arresting a person. Was this individual, was this family referred to mental health services? Were local law enforcement warned to be on the lookout to provide extra scrutiny? We don't know the answers to those questions, but too often in these cases, the answer has been no.

And when you talk to experts about this, they say there's a real breakdown here. There's a real lack of coherent threat assessments in these cases because so often there's this what they call leakage. Before an event like this, the troubled individual who carries it out tells people about it, tells people about his or her ambitions to conduct a mass shooting. And often the authorities don't take the right action. And then tragedy ensues, Willie. And and you know, the question, Mika, really is between last year and this year, where did they our weapon come from? The father claimed he had hunting rifles and that was that was it. And that the son had no access to him. Well, the son had access to an AR style rifle. And the question is, where did that happen? Who did the father leave it in a position where this his child who had these issues before had access to it. I mean, that's more and more, that's a question I think we're gonna start seeing.

And there are now cases where parents are being tried. Right. In a situation like this. Yeah, and this is just yet the latest in school shootings. What is it, day one of school? AR-15s, or AR platform weapons used to kill children. And just a reminder again, that gun deaths are the number one cause of deaths for children in America. And as we've said before, and as Kamala Harris said yesterday, this is a choice that Republican legislators make every single day to not pass meaningful gun safety laws.

Oh, but Joe, this is not the time to talk about that. That's what they always say. The problem is, you know, they used to say that. The problem is they say, oh, you should wait a week. Well, there's so many mass shootings in America now. It's an epidemic. 1,708 young people died in acts of gun violence last year. Again, the number one cause of death for children in America.

Why? Because it's a choice. Look at that. 2018, 336, 19, 417 children, 2020, 610 children. You keep going. 656 children in 23, 385 in 24. NBC's Ken Delaney, and thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. We'll speak to you again soon, I'm sure. And still ahead on Morning Joe, the presidential candidates have agreed on the ground rules for next week's debate in Philadelphia. We'll have the details on that. Plus, some top Republicans are secretly hoping Donald Trump loses the election. That new reporting is ahead.

We'll also dig into the new plan for the economy laid out yesterday by Vice President Kamala Harris and how it marks a break from the Biden administration. I had a Fox commentator praising it. Yeah, you're watching Morning Joe. We're back in 90 seconds. We're gathering information about what happened, but we know that there were multiple fatalities and injuries. And, you know, our hearts are with all the students, the teachers, and their families, of course, and we are grateful to the first responders and the law enforcement that were on the scene. But this is just a senseless tragedy on top of so many senseless tragedies. And it's just outrageous that every day in our country, in the United States of America, that parents have to send their children to school worried about whether or not

their child will come home alive. It's senseless. We've got to stop it. And we have to end this epidemic of gun violence in our country once and for all. You know, it doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't have to be this way. So we will continue, of course, to send our prayers and our thoughts to the families and all those who were affected. It is an epidemic and it is an epidemic that is continued unabated. The numbers that I showed you before we went to break were not deaths from mass shootings. They

were actual mass shootings in the United States. The numbers are staggering. Each year since 2019, more mass shootings than days of the year. So please tell me if we can't talk about mass shootings, we can't talk about how to prevent them, if we can't talk about how to slow these numbers down to bring them down like any sane party, political party would want to do, and Republicans don't want us to talk about mass shootings after a mass shooting. Well, that, of course, gives us no days of the year to talk about mass shootings. And Mike, we have seen too often in the Trump Republican Party, we've seen this fake machoism that has been underlined and has used guns, mainly AR-15s and weapons that were designed for warfare.

We have seen them used in political ads and Republican Congressman Mike Collins, who actually represents the district where the high school is located, took to social media to send his thoughts and prayers of families and victims. But if you're curious, if you're just curious what's out there on the Internet for people in his district to see. Here's a video we posted online when he ran for Congress in 2022, seen holding an AR style weapon, an assault style weapon before shooting the gun along the side of the captain. Send me to Washington. I'll blow up the Democratic's

cover up. The Democrats cover up. You see, Georgians are sick and tired. We need spineless politicians who won't fight for Trump, get to the bottom of 2020, and fix our elections. Well, if they won't do it, Mike Collins will. Send me to Washington. I'll fix this election. I'll get to the bottom of 2020, and I will fight for Trump's America First agenda. So we've seen that far too often. People posing with military-styled weapons.

I said assault-style weapons, military-styled weapons, and weapons originally designed for war, Mike. And they use them as props. We've seen other members of Congress using AR-15s as props, using them, you know, as Christmas cards, Christmas cards, having their kids holding AR-15s, having pins on their lapels, AR-15s. And and again they wonder where this culture comes from and you go down the list of school shootings over the past decade or so and more often than not there are ar-15s are military style weapons the ar-15 developed for warfare developed as a more efficient killing machine in the jungles of Vietnam than the weapons our soldiers and Marines were carrying around there. You know, Joe, it's exhausting listening to you talk about this, and I'll tell you why.

Thank you. Well, I'll tell you why. Yeah. Because we've talked about it many times before, and there aren't many guarantees in this life of ours, but we can guarantee everyone watching right now that we will be talking about another mass shooting within the next few weeks, months. It will happen. It's designed to happen.

Our politics designs it to happen. And, Elise, what Joe was talking about, the AR-15, or I don't know whether it was an AR-15, but it's an AR-style weapon. I don't know how far this child, and he is a child, he's 14 years of age, who was interrogated when he was 13 about his threats that he made. How did he get the weapon into school? Did he walk to school? Did he get a ride from school? An AR-style weapon is not something you put in your backpack with twitzy rolls and school books how did he get it into the school there are so many questions but the one question that we can answer is the one just posed when will the next massacre take place in a school and it's inevitable we are going to be

at this place sooner rather than later and mourning senseless deaths that didn't have to happen. And, you know, there's a difference between freedom and chaos. There can be gun rights advocates who are saying this is freedom, but this is just descended into total chaos. The fact that in Georgia, one of the most permissive states when it comes to guns, no background checks, which the majority of Americans want. There are no laws to secure your guns. There's open carry. So I just remember my late great father, Kelly Jordan, and his strong gun rights advocacy. And he would always say more guns makes you safer. But this is an example. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. Dad, you look at how the plenty there's so much the multitude of guns,

the access. It just this is chaos. This is not freedom when it comes to gun rights. And, you know, guys, another element to this that always comes up in these stories, the tragic death of two 14 year olds. As Mike said, those are kids and a 14 year old who got the weapon. Somehow we'll find out more later. Are these two teachers who died and another one who was shot? And as hard as it already is to be a teacher in the United States of America, we are now asking them and have asked them for 25 years now as part of the job to get between a gunman and your students. That's part of the job. Learn how to barricade the door. And if the gunman comes in, you put your body between the gunman and the students. And two teachers did that. Both math teachers, Christina Arimi and Richard

Aspinwall. And Joe, Richard Aspinwall is the kind of guy you and I grew up around, which is to say he was a math teacher, but he was also the defensive coordinator on the high school football team. And I don't know what happened yesterday. We'll learn in the course of time. But my gut tells me that that guy and Mr. Remy, that other teacher, did what they had to do to try to save the lives of those kids. And he should be alive today. He should be preparing his team for their Friday night football game and be worrying about developing kids and their character over the next year and for years to come.

And he's not going to be able to do that. And it's because of the madness, because of the chaos that continues. And, you know, Elise talked about her father. I think Mr. Jordan, probably like a lot of people I grew up with, who grew up, as I've said a million times here, grew up NRA members who started hunting with their fathers or grandfathers when they were young children who were taught gun safety, who understood the importance of gun safety, who told me and you know whether it's in First Baptist Church in Pensacola or somewhere else you know at you know, at a diner. You know, we don't need AR-15s to shoot deer.

We don't need AR-15s for what we do when we go out hunting. It's madness. I will say also, and this bears repeating, the majority of Americans, overwhelming majority of Americans, support gun safety laws, whether you're talking about universal background checks, whether you're talking about universal background checks, whether you're talking about red flag laws, whether you're talking about keeping guns

secure and safe. And by the way, you go through most homes in the South, at least that I went through. They have shotguns. They were locked up. Their guns were secured. Guns were secured. But that's not the culture now. And this open carry and all of this, again, it's just absolute madness and it's extremism that makes this country less safe. And, you know, just I can't imagine what it's like, but I hear what it's like and you hear what it's like from young mothers and fathers who are sending their children to school the first day. Somebody very close to us wept openly, sending her children to preschool the first day, not because she was going to miss them terribly, which she was. But the fear of gun violence. Right.

So many times they've seen and she saw growing up, you send a child to school. Are you going to see that child when they return? Think about the reality today's young people are living in. My daughters were little girls when Sandy Hook happened, and they grew up in the age of being afraid to go to school, the age of drills. They would do drills, hide under their desks, learn how to confront a gunman. I can't tell you how this has shaped the outlook of millions of young people, of generations now, who go to school with the concept in their mind, very realistically, that they could be blown to bits.

And Willie, when, you know... When Kamala Harris says that it doesn't have to be this way, it doesn't. Other countries don't have this problem. It actually doesn't have to be this way. But you have to care about it. And when we, and Willie, when I talk to my kids after school, I talk to my kids during the day,

you know, we're not talking about, you know, astrophysics. We're talking about football. We're talking about baseball. Yesterday, I got a call from two of my children asking me. What happened in Georgia today, dad? And there's there's no answer. But our kids think our kids are haunted by it. Like a generation ago, we were haunted by the specter of nuclear war, except this, this, the enemy is from within and it is an enemy that can be stopped.

But there are a handful of extremists that control a political party in America that stops the most sensible gun reforms that 70, 80, 90% of Americans support. Yeah. And part of the frustration all the time in these school shootings is that there's not a law technically that would have stopped it. You laid it out well, which is you've got a 14 year old kid in a house full of guns who somehow got access to it. The father said last year when the FBI first spoke to the family after the online threats, he said, I only have hunting weapons. My son has no access to them. Well, a hunting weapon can mean an AR style weapon, depending on what you're hunting. If you're going out and shooting feral pigs or something like that, they are used for hunting.

But yeah, I think Tamika's point, part of what gets me, I have two teenagers too, is the extent to which they're not really surprised by this. They're not really shocked that these drills are a part of their school year. The way that we had fire drills or before that, like you said, Joe, duck and cover drills. It's part of life. And they see it and they hear about it and they accept the possibility that it could visit their school someday. And the best they can hope for is that they'll be ready when it does. And you have these policies like, you know, run, hide, fight, run if you can, then hide, barricade the door and then fight. That's a stated policy,

which is throw a chair at the guy or something. Fight against an AR-15. Fight. We're telling these 14 year olds to fight in the hallways of their schools. Okay. Coming up, what economists at Goldman Sachs are saying about the potential economic implications of a Trump victory in November compared to a Harris win. You might be surprised. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. Press the point. When a political candidate comes up with what I think is a good idea, I have to call it a good idea. And a $50,000 tax cut for small, not tax cut, but a tax credit for startups or small businesses, coupled with less red tape. I got to say, that is a good idea, regardless of our other tax ideas.

Fox Business host Stuart Varney with that praise yesterday for Kamala Harris's small business tax credit plan. Under that proposal, tax deductions would dramatically increase from $5,000 to $50,000 for small business startup expenses. Harris set a goal of receiving $25 million new small business applications, 25 million new small business applications in her first term, up from the record 19 million that were filed during the Biden administration. Meanwhile, economists at Goldman Sachs have gamed out the potential economic implications of a Trump or Harris victory in November, quoting from their assessment. We estimate that if Trump wins in a sweep or with divided government, the hit to growth from tariffs and tighter immigration policy would outweigh the positive

fiscal impulse from maintaining most tax cuts. However, should Harris win and Democrats secure both of the chambers of Congress, quote, new spending and expanded middle income tax credits would slightly more than offset lower investment due to higher corporate tax rates. The Goldman economists added that if Harris won the White House in a divided government scenario, the effects of policy changes would be small and neutral on that. So I want to go. We're going to go to Steve Ratner in a second, but I'm going to go to Sam Stein first. Sam, of course, not that this will matter to people who are brainwashed

and in a political cult, but you would think it would matter to people on Wall Street that can see. Goldman Sachs, they're not in the political business. They're in the business of making money. They get hired and they get fired by being right when they make these forecasts. And this once again proves what Bill Clinton had said. For some reason, the so-called pro business party has a worse record, a much, much weaker record on the economy through the years than do the Democrats.

And here Goldman Sachs says looks like the case again. Right. I mean, you have to either look you look at it through two lenses. One is what policies would do most for more business? And then look at it the other way, which is which party would do most to reduce taxes? If you're if your whole modus operandi is can I get my tax rate lower, then yeah, you should probably vote for Donald Trump. He promises lower tax rates, promises to keep the corporate rate lower.

Kamala Harris is not going as far as Joe Biden would have gone, but she does want to raise taxes for the rich. And so if that's what you want to vote on, then yes, you should vote for Donald Trump. But on the other matters, I think objectively speaking, the record's pretty clear and history's pretty clear here, which is job growth.

As Bill Clinton noted in his convention speech, job growth has happened under Democratic administrations. Deficit reduction is more common under Democratic administrations. These business policies, as Goldman Sachs forecasts, are more, they're better business policies outlined by Harris than it is for Trump. And I would just say this, we've gone through two and a half, three years of people, especially on the Republican side, warning about, and rightfully so, inflation. The most inflationary policies being proposed in the current campaign are enhanced tariffs and immigration restriction, because that would

affect the amount of supplies of goods coming to our country and severely hamper the employee, a number of employees that we have in our country. So if your primary concern is inflation, it's pretty clear, too, that you should vote for Harris. Right. And one economist after another has come out and said that. But