Morning Joe - New details on boat strike that killed survivors

Episode Date: December 8, 2025

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Under the law, if someone has been struck and continues to engage in hostilities, points a gun at you, has a gun, they may be a legitimate target. But if they are outside of combat, they are not. And attacking them is a violation of the laws of war. And these guys, and this is why the American people need to see this video, these guys were barely alive, much less engaging in hostilities. Jim Himes, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, calling out the Defense Secretary's explanation for a deadly strike on survivors of that boat attack in the Caribbean. The president has said he has no problem with the video being released.

The question is, will his administration actually do it? Meanwhile, New York City mayor elect Zoran Mamdani is warning residents about their rights when it comes to ICE operations. amid concerns of a potential escalation in immigrant enforcement across the city. He's pointing out to people on social media that ICE can lie to you and what your rights are. Also ahead, we'll show you the latest criticism of President Trump from Republican Marjorie Taylor Green. And what she says, her GOP colleagues really think of the president. Good morning. And welcome to morning, Joe.

It's Monday, everyone, December 8th. We hope you had a good weekend, Lamere. Did you sleep? Always, Mickey. Yeah. Always. You excited that Jordan Klepper's on the show today? He's one of our favorites.

He's hilarious. He's great every time he's here. Yes. All right. With us, we have the co-host of our 9 a.m. Hour, staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, former Homeland Security Secretary. Under President Obama, Jay Johnson is with us here. Columnist and Associated Editor of the Washington Post, David Ignatius, senior writer at the Dispatch and Calmness at Bloomberg Opinion, David Drucker,

and decorated combat veteran and former commander of U. U.S. Army Europe, Bratard Army Lieutenant General Mark Hurdling joins us. Good to have you all on board this morning. So we start with our top story and it continues to be Defense Secretary Pete Hegeseth continuing to stand by the U.S. military's highly scrutinized September strike on an alleged drug boat. Now, that attack included a follow-up strike, the double tap, that targeted two people who had somehow survived the initial. blast. Jonathan Lemire and his colleagues describe it like this in the Atlantic. The suspected drug traffickers, the lone survivors of a U.S. airstrike, were sprawled on a table-sized piece of floating wreckage in the Caribbean for more than 40 minutes. They were unarmed, incommunicado, and adrift as they repeatedly attempted to write what remained of their

boat. At one point, the men raised their arms and seemed to signal to the U.S. aircraft above a gesture, some who watched the video of the incident interpreted it as a sign of surrender. Then a second explosion, finished the men off, leaving only a bloody stain on the surface of the sea. Footage of the two men's desperate final moments made some viewers nauseated, leading one to nearly vomit. It was worse than we had been led to believe, one person told us. That, again, is Jonathan Lemire's co-authored piece and General Hurdling. Let's go backward and start with that, that moment right there as it is written. Is that a war crime? I believe it is. Mika, what you're talking about is a soda straw look at a couple of individuals on floating debris.

you're not seeing is the context of a widening picture that shows they're in the middle of an ocean. Imagine yourself falling off of a cruise ship and being asked to hang on to a piece of wood after you've just been struck with a large kinetic round that has killed nine of your 11 co-pilots on this boat. It doesn't matter what they're doing at that point. They deserve to be picked up, rescued, and perhaps put in jail. That could be the ten. the approach that someone might use in this situation for a couple of criminals if they are, in fact, harvesting drugs and taking them to another boat. But some of the more detail, some of the additional details that are coming out of this story

about the boat heading in a direction that was not toward the United States, the first strike, how they were considered, the time limit between the first strike, the second strike, and then the third and fourth strike, continue to tell me that this was not something, that the U.S. military is trained to do, nor should they do. It is, in fact, in my view, a war. So, Jay Johnson, as you write in the New York Times, before you were Secretary of Homeland Security, you were General Counsel of the Department of Defense in the first Obama term, overseeing the work of thousands of lawyers that included providing the legal sign-off for lethal counter-terrorism operations before they went to the Secretary of Defense and the President for approval.

so I'll back up to 20,000 feet. Does this look like a lawful operation? We should release the video. The double tap, the second tap, is no more classified than the first one. And I think Americans will be able to judge for themselves when they look at this thing. You don't have to be the former General Counsel of the Department of Defense or a retired general officer to make an assessment. If you see this video of whether or not these are, individuals clinging to life or they somehow, as some in Congress would say, represented some

danger, I think Americans should be able to judge for themselves. I also think Congress should hold hearings, public hearings with witnesses under oath to explain September 2nd and to explain this overall effort. Generally, it is an unauthorized war. The president has unilaterally declared war in the Caribbean, on Venezuela and cartels, Mexican cartels, without Congress. And it has the look and feel of extrajudicial killing. So, John Limer, you have incredible reporting in the Atlantic about this. And what are you hearing from your sources and from the

White House, the president says that, you know, perhaps the video could be out there. Is the video going to see the light of day? It's unclear at this point. This would be far from the first time the president would sort of, oh, yes, let's do this, and then there not be follow-through. We simply don't know yet. That'll be something that would be a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure this week. We're seeing from lawmakers, including some Republicans, say, look, we'd like to get the full picture here, put the whole video out.

But to this point, that hasn't happened just yet. So NBC News is reporting that Admiral Frank M. Bradley, the commander who oversaw the attack, told lawmakers that the drugs were not heading to the United States. But instead, the boat was traveling toward Surinom, and Africa. That contradicts what President Trump said the day of the attack. NBC News also reports Bradley told lawmakers that Hengseth ordered the military to kill all 11 people aboard the boat because they were on an internal list of narco-terrorists whom the U.S. government determined could be lethally targeted. Quote, while the survivors were not armed, Bradley said, the mission identified the drugs as the threat to the United States.

Now MS now has not independently confirmed that reporting yet. But as NYU law professor Ryan Goodman points out, the existence of a list doesn't negate rules of conflict. Quote, World War II Germans may have a list of American soldiers, but if they're shipwrecked, killing them is a war crime. Now, over the weekend, Secretary Hengseth defended the U.S. military's decision. From what I understood then and what I understand now, I fully support that strike. I would have made the same call myself, those who were involved in. 20 years of conflict, Iraq and Afghanistan or elsewhere, know that reattacks and restrikes of combatants on the battlefield happen often. In this particular case, it was well within the authorities

of Admiral Bradley, who's an incredible American, an American hero. And the 22 or 23 strikes since have followed the similar protocol of ensuring we meet the criteria. The decision's not at my level anymore. And then we take the strike. President Trump said he would have no problem that the full video of the strike is released. When can we see that video? When will you release it? We're reviewing it right now to make sure sources, methods, I mean, it's an ongoing operation, TTPs.

We've got operators out there doing this right now. So whatever we were to decide to release, we'd have to be very responsible about it. We're reviewing that right now. So David Ignatius, a very different story that Admiral Bradley's telling behind closed doors than when we heard publicly. The justification for the strike was

that these drugs were hanging in the United States. We now know they were not. They were heading to a country in northeast of South America. We also now, as described to myself and colleagues at the Atlantic, have a better picture of what happened for that double-tap. We're seeing where it seemed these two men were just trying to stay alive and did not appear to pose a threat, did not appear to have any sort of access to a radio where they could call for reinforcements. What is the latest you're hearing, your sources in the intelligence community, in the military, Capitol Hill as to where they want to see this go next. Because we did hear Republican Senator

Tom Cotton, you know, one of the few lawmakers who has seen this video, to describe it in very different ways than we heard from Congressman Himes at the top of the show, who has said this is one of the hardest things he's ever watched as an American. So, Jonathan, what I hear from retired military and intelligence officers in particular is a sense of deep unhappiness about what they're hearing about and what we may see the details of. I think in this terrible crisis over the September 2nd shootings, we forget that the vast majority of American soldiers and intelligence officers have worked hard, especially these last two decades, to follow the rules in the most difficult armed conflict situation is imaginable.

And I think it offends a lot of them to see essentially dismissive attitude from Secretary Hegseth about the issues that have been raised here. People want to see the laws of war, the rules that commanders have to live by and need to live by to avoid making mistakes. drawn clearly here. The only way you can do that is public hearings that lay out what happened and make clear where responsibilities are, where mistakes may have been made. But I think above all, there's a feeling that this crisis could produce greater clarity that this generation of commanders needs. It could strengthen the hand of lawyers in the military who were essentially

purged by Pete Heg-Seth in the first months that he was Secretary of Defense so that they have a stronger role. Their advice, which is needed, can be listened to. So, General, I'd like to go back to you and ask, again, in terms of the category of war crime, since this boat was not headed to the United States, was it in any capacity on its way to a place, that would, if it could actually propel itself to move from where it was, this piece of the wreckage that they were holding onto, which is, I know we're grasping here to even believe this, but taking the defense secretary's words, is there any possibility it was on its way to do, to go somewhere, to do damage to the United States? Would you consider this

combat in the fog of war to use the defense secretary's words? No, no, Mika. No on all of those questions you just ask. Let's put it a little bit of context here. First of all, the continual use of the term double tap is wrong. That's a term that special operators use when there's two successive rounds at a target to eliminate it and to get rid of someone who is attacking them. This was a restrike with time between the first strike and the second. That gives you time to figure out what you're going to do and clear that. called fog of war, which is really just, as Clausewitz defined, fog, confusion, chaos, and misunderstanding and miscommunication on the battlefield. Secondly, what I would also say is Secretary Higset is basically convening everyone to think he has been in war for 20 years, and this is the kind of things that happen in war. It's not. What I'll tell you, having been involved in strikes like this on the ground, the only

time you consider a restrike is when the enemy continues to fight and you're continuing to either strike them with artillery or some type of faraway missile. So a restrike like this occurs when you realize the individuals on the ground or in the water are trying to fight back. And the third thing is, again, the context of this entire strike of a piece of debris floating around the middle of the Caribbean, where these individuals, are not going to go anywhere, which will become clear with the film. I'm sure, even though I haven't seen the film, truthfully, no one else has either. We will see exactly what happened and put it in context. There is no way you can justify this kind of a restrike against two individuals who

are unarmed, in danger, and they're just floating around the ocean without any methods of communication. And I would, Jay Johnson, listening to the general, not a double tap, boom, boom, a restrike, what, 40 minutes later? That takes thought, consideration, and then

a deliberation, and then a decision, right? Correct. So they decided to kill these two people. Who were clinging to life on, you know, a piece of wood or something. The two specific problems here under the laws of armed conflict,

are, one, you cannot have a policy of take no prisoners, and two, the concept that once somebody is out of the fight, once they're wholly out of the fight, because they're injured, because they're clinging to some piece of wood on the high seas, you can't then subsequently kill them. It doesn't look like combat. It's a well-developed concept in the Navy, too. Once the ship is wrecked, you don't then go back and shoot everybody aboard the shipwreck. And, you know, the broader problem here is our Secretary of Defense has created a climate and an environment among war fighters. You know, we kill. We're renaming the department, the Department of War.

And in that environment, something like this September 2nd is almost inevitable. And so there needs to be reframing strict adherence to the laws of armed conflict. There were legal questions surrounding this operations in the Caribbean since the beginning, and those questions only growing as we learn more about this particular incident. Meanwhile, the top Democrats on the House Intelligence and Armed Services Committee are calling for the release of the video showing the strike on the survivors. It's important for Americans to see it because, look, there's a certain amount of sympathy out there for going after drug runners.

But I think it's really important that people see what it looks like when the full force the United States military is turned on two guys who are clinging to a piece of wood and about to go under, just so that they have sort of a visceral feel for what it is that we're doing. Secretary Higsef also said yesterday that the survivors could have still been in the fight and have access to radios to link up with another boat carrying the drugs. Yeah, that's ridiculous. There are no radios. They ought to release the video. If they release the video, then everything that the Republicans are saying will clearly be. portrayed to be completely false. And people will get a look at it and they will see.

The boat was adrift. It was going where the current was going to take it. And these two were trying to figure out how to survive. So David Drucker, this has become a remarkably political issue here, divided on party lines. Do we think, though, in the wake of the reporting and the growing drumbeat from those in the ex-military and the like, do we think there are going to be enough Republicans here who get behind this idea of, you know what, we're also going to champion for the release of this video so the public can decide for itself. I mean, it's certainly possible. And of course, that's the big question here because Republicans control the relevant committees on Capitol Hill. They can control the oversight

and the investigations and put pressure on the administration. I wouldn't rule it out in talking to Republicans over the past week or so. One of the things that I learned was that there's a lot of simmering distrust and unhappiness with defense secretary Pete Hegeseth. He does not communicate with Republicans on Capitol Hill. The administration has been very opaque with these operations in the Caribbean and what's going on vis-vis Venezuela. And so, you know, this frustration, you know, runs deep in this way, Jonathan. I've had Republicans tell me that, you know, look, I'm on the same team as President Trump. I want to help his defense department succeed. And I can't get any information or anybody to talk to me over at the Pentagon. And, you know, I think that if the administration

were more communicative with Republicans on the Hill, they, number one, might know more and might conclude from the information that this isn't, you know, what it appears to be or what it could be. Number two, and obviously this is a different political issue here, they might not give the administration such a hard time about this because they'd feel like they were looped in. They understood the overall goals. And as Mr. Himes suggested in that clip, there isn't a lot of concern among the public, among voters, for, you know, not exactly following the rules when it comes to drug traffickers and people that want to do harm to the United States. There should be, it's a constitutional issue among other things, but there's not a lot of pressure from voters.

This is just a lot of frustration from Republicans. It's why we've seen both House and Senate Republicans speak up here. The question as you get to, Jonathan, is, you know, where's this going to lead? And I think Republicans are still trying to learn more and from there they will determine how far they want to take this. Well, there certainly is a videotape they can

watch that will help. And in the days to come, we'll be waiting and watching to see if more people get to see that videotape and get a sense of what happened for themselves. But until then, I'd like to close out this conversation.

by asking David Ignatius and General Hurdling to answer this question. How does Pete Hegzath lead? How does he keep his job in this environment at this point at the Pentagon? How does he have, because in order to do so, you need a modicum of support and respect within the behemoth that is the Pentagon in order to be able to get anything done and not be undermined at every level? How does Pete Heggsath keep his job? David Ignatius and then the general. Well, let me just start with the simplest things.

He keeps his job by acting like a sensible and moral human being. We all make mistakes. We all make judgments that in retrospect we wish we hadn't. And a strong leader is able to express that. I think that's a part of leadership. The idea that we never make mistakes, Hexa said several days ago, I don't want to ever live with regret, so he just puts it aside. And I'd add to as a corollary to that, I'm sure General Hurdling understands this better than anybody.

He stresses to the military that he leads that honorable conduct, not just simply tough conduct, not the number of push-ups or pull-ups you can do, but honorable conduct is central to being a member of the U.S. military. General Hardling. Yeah, this is interesting. If I can comment on that, Nika, your question, but also pull in what Jonathan Lemire talked about being a political issue. This is not a political issue. This is a moral issue. And everything that David just mentioned about the potential for Secretary Hegsef

to reestablish his views on things, he has a worldview. He has published it in a book. He has talked about it in front of 800 generals, and admirals. And now he is conducting himself in a way that I don't think he can pull back from what he's done in the past. There's an old expression that the trust is gained in drops and lost in buckets. He has lost buckets of trust with the U.S. military. They do see him as someone who will push someone under the bus who say, hey, it wasn't my call when it really was

because he has established this kind of command climate where he has repeatedly denigrated rules of engagement and put lethality above legality. So it would be very difficult for him to go back on this and change his way. But again, I go back to the singular point I made. This is not a political issue. This is a moral issue. And most individuals who lead soldiers in combat understand that and know what right look. like. Yeah, leadership requires navigating morality and politics in Washington. And what I've been told and reported in that piece, I mean, at the end of the day, only one opinion in the

matters. That's President Trump. He'll want to decide on Secretary Hegss's future. The White House has been publicly supportive. I am told that Trump is still not looking to make a change right now. There's a real point of pride that they have not had much turnover this year as opposed to the first term. But there is a growing sense of two different things. The Hengseth already has lost much of the building. The Pentagon, then that's prior to this incident. But more than that, there is, as the president's poll numbers continue to really slide, and there's a sense here that the administration has lost focus.

There are many in Trump's orbit who are advocating that maybe it's next year, after the one-year mark, after January 20th, you make some changes in top post, perhaps more than one, multiple people. And if that does happen, it would not be a surprise if Secretary Hegseth was included. But right now, White House officials keep saying his job is safe, when it always is, until it isn't. Retired Army Lieutenant General Mark Hurdling, thank you very much for coming on this morning. He is the author of the forthcoming book entitled, If I Don't Return, a Father's Wartime Journal. David Ignatius, thank you as well.

His new piece for The Washington Post is available to read online right now. And still ahead on Morning, Joe, as the Trump administration continues, its immigration crackdown, New York City mayor-elect, Zora and Mamdani shares a new video about standing up to ice. Plus, what Republican congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green is saying about how Republicans really view Donald Trump. And as we go to break, a quick look at the travelers' forecast this morning from Acqueweathers, Bernie Raynow. Bernie, how's it looking? Mika, it's a cold Monday.

What else is new across the northeast? Gusty winds, Boston, New York City, Philadelphia. We're going to be looking at a few inches of snow around Richmond this morning with some slippery travel. Rain ending in Atlanta, your acuether exclusive forecast calling for some sunshine. Thunderstorm on Miami, sunshine in Dallas. Your acuether travel forecast, some delays this morning in Atlanta. Watch the thunderstorms in Miami win Boston, New York City, and Philadelphia. To help you make the best decisions and be more in the know, make sure to download the Acuether app today.

It is a lot of candles and you are alive. It is half past the hour alive, look at Capitol Hill for you this morning in an interview with 60 minutes that aired last night. Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green is doubling down on her criticism of President Trump and distancing herself from the MAGA brand. After President Trump called me a traitor, I got a pipe bomb threat on my house, and then I got several direct death threats on my son. On your son? On my son.

You say the president put your life in danger. You blame him. You say he fueled a hot bed of threats. against me, and that you blame him for the threats against your son. The subject line for the direct death threats on my son was his words, Marjorie Trader Green. Those are death threats directly fueled by President Trump. And I told him, I told J.D. Vance, I told them all, sent those directly to them. And response?

J.D. Vance replied back to me, we'll look into it. I got response back from President Trump that I will keep private. it, but it wasn't very nice. Give us a hint of what the president said. It was extremely unkind. I'm going to ask you about this almost solid support he has among Republicans in Congress. Is there in that support fear? Does the support come about because they're afraid that they'll get death threats?

I think they're terrified to step out of line and get a nasty truth social posts on them. Yes. And they're watching what happened to you. Yes. Behind the scenes, do they talk differently? Yes. How? Oh, it would shock people.

Well, let's shock people. Okay. I watched many of my colleagues go from making fun of him, making fun of how he talks, making fun of me constantly for supporting him, to when he won the primary in 2024, they all started, excuse my language, Leslie, kissing his ass and decided to put on a MAGA hat for the first time. Are you MAGA? I am America first.

And that's not the same as MAGA. MAGA is President Trump's phrase. That's his political policies. I call myself America first. But you're not saying you're MAGA. I'm America first. The White House responded to Green's interview there with Leslie Stahl with a statement, reading in part as the architect of the MAGA movement. President Trump will always put America first every single day.

He is working hard to continue fulfilling the many promises he made and will continue delivering. David Drucker politically, well, is he fulfilling the promises he made? I guess yes, on retribution, yes, on the attempt at least to carry out mass deportations. But what about on the economy and other areas? What do you make of Marjorie Taylor Green's change here? Yeah, it's been fascinating. We might have thought it would come from somewhere. We wouldn't have necessarily thought it would come from her.

If you remember, Mika, she would, during the pandemic, would often wear a mask that says, said, you know, Trump is right, or Trump is right about everything. And, and, I mean, she was one of his, there's loyalty and there's loyalty. I mean, she was loyal through thick and thin. And I think, you know, what we can see here is somebody who feels like that loyalty hasn't been returned, and it hasn't, but she's particularly jilted by it. Look, you know, I've always said the President Trump is sort of a simple man, but a complicated political figure. You know, what motivates him is very simple. Do you like them or do you not like them? Do you criticize them, or do you say nice things about him? That's about it. But for a lot of Republican voters who don't

necessarily like his behavior or his rhetoric and have told me, you know, I would never say that. I would never behave like that. They've pointed to what they believe is the fact that he's kept his campaign promises. This time around, the economy is not delivering. But if you look inside the one big beautiful bill act, there are certain tax cut provisions that, though complicated and won't impact everybody that no tax on tips, things like that are going to reach some people, and it's something he can point to to say, this is what I've done. And so that has bought some goodwill. And look, what the congresswoman was saying about how Republicans talk about Trump privately, I mean, this has been going on now for 10 plus years. It's just, what do I,

you know, what do I say every time we wonder if there's going to be some massive break with the president over, even just a single policy, right? Not just throwing them overboard, but let's just say, hey, we disagree with you on that. We're just not doing that. And I always say primary season is right around the corner. And it's not that they're afraid of him, per se. They're afraid of his voters. The president still maintains a really good relationship with Republican voters, particularly the Republican base, which is kind of, you know, been rebuilt and is more populist under his leadership. And so, you know, there may be an exodus from Congress. People may decide they don't want to go along with everything, but to speak up the way

she has, I'd be surprised to see it en masse, because for the people that are staying, they want that endorsement, and they certainly don't want an unendorsement, heading into next year's primaries. Yeah, Jonathan Lemire, simple man, but complicated political figure. I also think what's complicated, actually, is being a supporter of Trump or working for him. That's unbelievably complicated because you do not know what your status is from one moment to the next. And Marjorie Taylor Green saying what she hears behind closed doors. You and I have both heard that and from people who are on the right who wouldn't say it publicly. Oh, absolutely. And the president demands complete loyalty, but loyalty one way, one way street. And I want to pick up just briefly on what

David just said there. Maybe it's not people aren't going to be as outspoken as Marty Taylor Green, but sort of the growing storyline in Washington right now is how many Republicans are going to retire, are going to walk away from their jobs in Congress because of a variety of factors. One, they don't want to be caught crossing President Trump and having to deal with what they're seeing here with Congresswoman Green. Secondly, just how miserable the experience is and we've heard complaints about Speaker Johnson

the way he's run the House where they just simply take orders from the White House and have no real autonomy of their own. I think some Republicans, particularly veteran lawmakers, don't like that dynamic. And then lastly, they can read polls and they see right now Republicans, you know, we're a long way from Election Day.

But at this moment, it's looking like it could be a very bad day for the GOP, next November's midterms, and they don't want to have to be in the minority. So that's a huge storyline, really gaining steam in D.C. We're going to switch gears now to something right here in New York City. And the new video posted online, New York City mayor-elect Zoran Mamdani is urging residents to know their rights if they're confronted by ICE agents. ICE cannot enter into private spaces like your home, school, or a private area of your workplace without a judicial warrant signed by a judge. If ICE does not have a judicial warrant

signed by a judge, you have the right to say, I do not consent to entry. And the right to keep your door closed. Mobdani's comments come a week after demonstrators gathered in response to ice agents recently carrying out operations in the city's famed Chinatown Canal Street area. Additionally, the group Hands Off NYC began holding citywide training classes on Saturday, teaching residents how to defend themselves against potential ice raids. So Secretary Johnson, you much was made. of the meeting that Mayor-elect Mamdani had with President Trump in the White House last month

and certainly show of good feelings, but there's never been a real belief that the federal government wouldn't turn its attention to New York City at some point after January 1st. I think the mayor-elect clearly thinks that they will. ICE has not been nearly visible here, as it has been other places, but when they have tried, they've been met with real resistance. It's simply going to be a different matter in such a densely populated city like New York. How do you see, with what the mayor elects saying here, the advice he's giving legally, but what sort of confrontations may be ahead?

Well, first of all, I agree with what mayor elect said. He specifically said a judicial warrant. There's a thing called an administrative warrant issued by the agency itself, which is basically I hereby authorize myself to go into someplace. You need a judicial warrant to go into a home. and I want to add that there are a number of different ways people can be lawfully present in this country. You're a citizen. You're a lawful permanent resident. You've been paroled into this country. You're a DACA recipient. You have asylum. So there are a number of different ways someone can be lawfully present, not eligible to be swept off the streets by ICE and put into detention.

You're right. New York City is a much, much different place than any of the other places. Ice has tariff. I suspect there is a reason why Stephen Miller and Tom Holman have not selected New York City for this kind of targeting. And I was glad to see that the mayor-elect got along so well with President Trump. The mayor of New York needs to have a good relationship with the President of the United States, whoever that is, for lots of reasons. Some of us are old enough to remember Ford to City, 1975, dropped dead. And so, you know, like everything with Donald Trump, you're good until you're not. But I thought it was a terrific meeting. They got off to a good start.

And Trump obviously respects the mayor elects political skills. Right. And he's, and the mayor elect still being true to what he believes in. Curis, I'd like you to prognosticate carefully if you could. Does this have any concerns in terms of a connection to the midterms? And if it doesn't, overall, what should governors and secretaries of states be doing right now to prepare for the midterms? And are there any concerns that you have about the midterms being tampered with in any way?

Well, I believe in politics. A year is a decade and a month is a year. It'll be a very different environment a year from now. But if you're a mayor or a governor, there's a practical aspect to your job. You have to have a good relationship with the federal government one way or another. Okay. All right, former Homeland Security Secretary Jay Johnson. Thank you very much.

And David Drucker, thank you as well. Great to have you both. So after awarding President Trump, its first ever Peace Prize, FIFA, released the 2026 World Cup schedule. We'll show you where the United States stands ahead of next year's tournament. Morning, Joe. We'll be right back. When you look at what has happened to football in the United States, again, soccer in the United States, we seem to never call it that

because we have a little bit of a conflict with another thing that's called football. But when you think about it, shouldn't it really be called? I mean, this is football. There's no question about we have to come up with another name for the other. Yeah, yeah. It really doesn't make sense. When you think about it, it's really football. But who would have thought it would have come to a level where you've set your all-time season ticket ratings?

Nobody's ever sold as many tickets, and you're still a long way from that ball being kicked down the field. So I just want to congratulate you. What an incredible leap this has been. And congratulations to FIFA. Thank you. That was President Trump on Friday at the World Cup draw in the nation's captain. suggesting we need to come up with another name for American football. Let's impeach him just for that.

Meanwhile, those comments coming after Trump was, in a stunner, awarded FIFA's inaugural Peace Prize for what the organization said is to, quote, reward individuals who have taken exceptional and extraordinary actions for peace. As you can see there, he was given a trophy, a medal, and a certificate. New car, maybe. As for the actual competition, we learned that the U.S. men's national team was drawn into Group D, along with Paraguay, Australia,

and the winner of a playoff that features Turkey, Romania, Slovakia, and Kosovo. Jordan is now the founder of the Men and Blazers Media Network, Roger Bennett, and also with us, MS Now contributor and host, Pablo Tori finds out. Hey, Pablo Tori. Roger starts with you. We'll do the Premier League in a minute. Let's focus on World Cup first. There have been a number of allegations over the years, I mean decades, that FIFA might not be the most transparent.

and not uncorrupt organization. I will say, though, whatever deal was made here with President Trump to give him all of those prizes, well, the U.S. was rewarded with quite the favorable draw as we set to host the World Cup next year. Yes, indeed. Friday was quite the day for everybody who loves football and its rise in the United States.

The draw had, well, pretty well, everything. I was surprised Greta Thunberg did not get the Peace Prize. I was pretty sure she was locked on for that beauty. God bless next year it could be yours but we did find out where the 48 teams will play we also found out

that Wayne Gretzky can pronounce none of the nations that are in the World Cup accurately and we're also treated to and I crap you not an incredibly beautiful rendition of YMCA by the real village people at the end of it all

it was a magnificent face of America to show the world there you go this is it what I will say to you is, oh my God. By the way, that earworm has been faintly audible

in my ear the whole time. I'm sorry they didn't play new material, but football's always just a mirror to the culture, the politics that surround it in any time. And that's what we saw on Friday, and we'll see throughout the entire World Cup. It's the beauty of the game

and the challenge of the game. It reflects who we are in any second. It would have been remarkable had the village people opted for a cut off their new album as opposed to playing the microphone and say, guys, we want to play you a new song from our new album. They should have seized them. Always be selling.

Acoustic, maybe. Maybe they can do the unplugged version. Pablo, so this is, I mean, look, soccer's, we chronicled it all the time. Soccer's journey or football's journey. In the United States has been remarkable, the growth since we last hosted it in 1994. This is such an eagerly anticipated event

in a very, very tough ticket. But there is the fear that a number of people in the game have said, like him or not, next year's World Cup, some way, is going to be all about Donald Trump. Yeah, I mean, you saw this event, which was like, revenant length, Irishman length, the longest movie where you're like, when is, when is this going to get going? This was a super sweet 16 party for Donald Trump. That's what this, and you can see, here are all the gifts, here is the, the array of tribute

for the Pharaoh to put inside of his pyramid. And the thing about this, about 2026, is that this game, FIFA, the game that FIFA oversees, it doesn't need any of this except for the fact that this is what you do. This is what FIFA has done when it handles autocrats for years and years now. It is the most corrupt sports organization on the planet. And this is a playbook that is not just a mirror to the country, as Roger was saying. It's a mirror to the person that they need to curry favor with. And so this is familiar to anybody who's watch this administration, John.

Here are the gifts. Here's Tim Cook with the golden thing. Here is now Johnny Infantino with the most gold for anybody. Yeah, FIFA makes the college football playoff system look transparent and clean cut. Roger, let's turn now to the weekend that was in the Premier League. And I will steal a joke here that I saw on Twitter. President Trump likes to brag about all the conflicts he's solved. Maybe the next resolution can be the hot war that's broken out between Mosala and Liverpool and Arnie Slot.

I think some disputes are just not solvable, sadly. But we will see very quickly on the Premier League. Let's look at Arsenal Football Club, who have been a little bit like Marv Levy's Buffalo Bills, perpetually second place, three times on the run. They are strong this season. They're a rippled muscle. They are undefeated in 18 games.

They face third place, Aston Villa. It was 1-1 into the last seconds of the game. Everything felt possible. everything felt glorious then hold me closer tiny dancer little emmy bwendia laptop look at this chaos this muck and then he ran away with the joy of a little iwok shocked defeat for arsenal that lead now cut to two points oh no hello darkness my old friend it's a chaos of a season and we've got a title race for the ages you were mentioning poor old Liverpool talking about the darkness defending champions

really having a worse week than the Metaverse. They're playing at the feral bear pit. Leeds United north of the wall. This is a team. They should have smashed, coughed up for 2-0 lead, then seemed to have won it late. This goal, beautiful.

They thought they'd won it 3-2. This really, what we're watching is like the brief flash of possibility. It's like watching an amnesia patient who suddenly remembers your name. Oh, the commentator is so good. But the 96 minute, Dead may never die.

Leeds Craft a dagger and Equalizer and Joe Scarborough and all Liverpool fans remembering last season like Tracy Chapman remembers driving in your car like I was drunk. Oh, honestly Liverpool Football Club worse than the Kansas City Chiefs. Let me finish

by giving you Everton Football Club the other team from Liverpool like the Frank Stallone to Liverpool Sylvester. This is a young man scoring his first goal and I'm showing you it because Charles Shultz once said happiness is a warm puppy

Ever to the 6th. Here's your warm puppy America. Meeker, even you. Even you love happiness. I do. I guess I do. It's nice. It's nice.

I love it, Roger. Don't be on the fence about happiness. Okay. It's how you say it. It's somewhat creepy. How warm is the puppy? Okay. A founder and CEO of the

and Blazers Media Network, Roger Bennett. Thank you very much, as always.