Morning Joe - New York Knicks win first championship since 1973

Episode Date: June 15, 2026

June 15, 2026: 8am — New York Knicks win first championship since 1973 To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

From all I know, we are on track. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. There's logistics involved into how these things happen. Ultimately, obviously, we're attuned to what's happening with Hezbollah firing rockets into northern Israel, which they need to stop doing, and Iran needs to encourage them to stop doing that in very adamant ways. And Israel was very measured in its response, understanding that a deal is on, is we're on the verge of a deal. No, Secretary of Defense, Pete Higgs at yesterday. Hars before Donald Trump announced on social media an initial agreement toward ending the war with Iran. We're going to dig into the latest reporting on what's actually in the deal. The devil, as they always say, is in the details. And we don't know yet what's in there, judging from what both sides are saying, we could be in actually a worse situation after this war than we were at the beginning. But we're going to talk through that with experts.

and dig into what we know so far. We're also going to bring you the reporting from Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan, another explosive report coming from their book, on secret memos that showed the White House debating last year suspending habeas corpus for undocumented immigrants and also talking about instituting the Insurrection Act. And which members of the administration were jumping up and down telling the president, to do that unconstitutionally. More instances of just pushing right up to the line constitutionally and even going over. We'll give you all of that reporting. And we're going to go through the new polling

of the president's approval rating, which continues to plummet as we get closer to the midterm elections. Good morning. Welcome to Morning, Joe. It's Monday, June 15th. With us, we have staff writer for the Atlantic, Jonathan O'Meer, co-hosts of The Restis Politics Podcast of BBC's Caddy Kay, President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haas, and columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius. We're going to talk in one minute about the details of the deal. I just want to get first impressions from David and Richard. Okay, wait a second. Okay, before I do that, this is important. Richard, let's run tape of New York City completely losing their head this weekend. Dan, do you have it? Yeah, here we go.

So Richard, as we look at this, I can tell you we have somebody that is new to the Morning Joe team who's actually new to New York City, working in New York City, who along with the rest of New York, completely lost her mind this weekend and was describing how she ran out after the win and had a party in the story. streets till 5 a.m. with people that she didn't even know, even though they'd been living right by here for years. It didn't look quite like this, I'm sure. But Richard, talk about just what this went meant to New York. I don't know that I've ever seen anything like it. You know, this is Joe, as you know, this is a city that's known for many things, but community may not be one of them. This was as spontaneous and as broad as I've seen. Look, it was 15. years in coming. For me, it's a big chunk of my life. I was in college the last time the Knicks won. And suddenly strangers, people who you'd never talk to, much less touch, much less

dance with. This was going on everywhere. There were, I don't know, tens of thousands of things like this, watch parties that broke out into spontaneous celebrations. I'd never quite seen it. Joe, I live in a city. You may have noticed this. We're like, there's a baseball team that's won a lot of championships. I think you've heard of it, the Yankees, a few times a football team that plays in New Jersey, the Giants. But I've never quite seen this, where a city adopted a team, and I think identified with it. And in part, I think it's because of the nature of the Knicks. This was in some ways the greatest team victory. Not one Nick got a vote for the, I think, out of the 50 people who voted for MVP. No Nick made the first All-Star team.

Look at this team. What did they lose? Three games in the entire playoffs. The differences were remarkable. The comebacks were remarkable. So I just think this was a team that the city identified with, the greediness, the resilience, and fell in love with. Well, and Jonathan Amir literally did keep shouting throughout the night. Kids, get the hell off my lawn and put up the Boston Celtics flag.

But no, it was from everything I had. heard. It's unlike anything, a New York scene connected to a sporting event in quite some time, and it was widespread. So we'll keep talking about that throughout the show. But first, David, I want to get your impression as well as Richards on this temporary deal we've reached. And we don't really know exactly what's in it. My concern is, if you look at the language of the deal on nukes, which Donald Trump said, this is why he was fighting the war. It is identical, as in plagiarized, as in lifted straight off of Obama's deal. They used the same word.

Say, lifted it off of the Obama deal and put it on this deal on nuke. So the whole idea that Obama was weak on nukes and he's going to be tougher, if you even read the language of this memorandum of agreement, it's identical. then you can talk about the strike. Okay, well, here's Obama. Iran affirms that under no circumstances will Iran ever seek, develop, or acquire any nuclear weapons? That's July 14th, 2015. Republicans melted down.

Donald Trump said it was the worst plan ever that Iran was going to get a nuclear weapon because of this deal. And this is what Donald Trump says. Iran cannot develop or purchase a nuclear weapon. and actually it's actually closer than that. I will get it, but it's the identical language. And then you have Donald Trump saying, oh, the straight will be open forever for free. Well, no, that's not what the Iranians are saying.

There's a 60-day period. And then they expect to start receiving tolls. Regime change. The president had said earlier that we had regime change. Now he's saying he doesn't care about regime change. this regime tougher than the one before, which was pretty bad. And you can just go down the list. What I'm waiting for, talking about the other shoe to drop is, is there going to really be

reconstruction money for the Islamic Republic of Iran? It sure sounds like it. What does this sanctions relief look like? because the Trump team told me that Biden giving sanctions relief to the Iranians was the worst thing he ever did. So again, a lot of confusing things that I hope we have us a good solid deal that keeps Iran contained. Right now, I'm seeing nothing in here, but that would do that. But maybe you can assure me that I haven't read deep enough into the memorandum of understanding. So, Joe, it's always a good thing when a conflict ends.

This is one that's really harmed the global economy. So if the straight of Hormuz is reopened, and that seems to be the basic top line of this deal, that will be a good thing for the global economy. It is a long way to go for what appears to be very little in terms of locked-in promises from Iran. It does look very similar to the JCPOA, which Trump scrapped. Some of the provisions may even be somewhat weaker. It's hard to tell because we're just going to begin those negotiations this week and over the next 60 days. But I think in some ways the thing that's most important but seems most unrealistic in this deal is this idea of a,

broad change in the Middle East, a process where the U.S., over time, if Iran responds positively, begins to pump development money, not just reconstruction, but to build Iranian businesses, and has a vision for Iran becoming, over time, a country more like Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates than like the very closed and really impoverished country it's been. If they can do that, if the Iranians are really prepared to make those changes, that would be a significant move into the future. But right now, in terms of what's actually agreed, actually on paper, it's pretty thin. The main achievement is one that I don't want to discount, opening the Strait of Hormuz. But otherwise, not a lot there yet.

Yeah, and let me say, if by some miracle, and it would truly be, miracle going back to 1979. This deal somehow brought Iran into the League of Nations. How wonderful that would be. Also, if the Atlanta Falcons win the next 10 Super Bowls,

what a wonderful, wonderful run that will be for all of us who have been suffering with Atlanta since, well, before 1979. But Richard Oz, I want to read you now. I have the exact language. Here is the language in the

the understanding that was signed. Iran affirms that under no circumstances, will Iran ever seek, develop, or acquire any nuclear weapons? Got that? That sounds pretty tough. Here is a preamble to the 2015 JCPOA that Trump tore up. Iran affirms that under no circumstances, will Iran ever seek, develop or acquire any nuclear weapons. You are literally looking at the same exact words. And as far as the straight goes, Donald Trump says, well, it's going to be toll-free forever. No, no, that's not what the Iranians believe. They believe that after 60 days, they're going to be able to start charging insurance, start charging other fees. That's at least what they're saying. And regime change. we've all talked about it. The regime is actually more hardened. They're angrier. They have more

of a reason to seek and build out their military capabilities than they did before because the United States did attack. I guess my question is, can you find a single area where if you look at the straight, if you look at regime change, if you look at nukes, where we're in a better position today than we were under Barack Obama's deal before the war? The short answer, I'm sorry to say, Joe, is no. And let's just break it into those three parts. The straight, yes, will be reopened. That's a good thing. But you'd have to believe in the tooth fairy to think it will remain open unconditionally to all without a toll. I think it's a question when, not if, not only did the Iranians start adding a toll, but at some point they'll deny

access. Just say there's a new crisis with Israel and a country is shipping arms to Israel. I expect it's quite possible that Iran will close the straight to the ships, to ships carrying oil or goods to that country. So, you know, that's one thing. On the nuclear where you read the language, there's, it's not just that it's similar. That is nothing more than a statement of intention. And as we've learned over the years in arms control, what really matters is not statements of intention, its capabilities.

So the real question with the nuclear is what is Iran going to be, sign up to, and Can it be verified? And there's been a remarkable lack of conversation here about the verification capabilities. What about international inspectors? What kind of information is Iran going to be required to provide on a regular basis so inspectors have the access they need? And so there's that entire detailed area. And then last, the people of Iran are really among the big losers here. Why? Because we're going to be transferring enormous sums of money. Either we're going to release frozen assets, ease sanctions, Iran is going to make a lot of money. That's going to shore up, as you said, Joe, this even harder-line regime.

So I actually think the Iran is going to be farther away from the kind of broad, systemic regime change that actually it wasn't that far away from before this war broke out. Yeah, you know, Jonathan, it's one of the many reasons why Israel is so dead set against this. What they see is an enraged Iran with more radical leadership. You have the Revolutionary Guard now running it and the most hardened elements of the Revolutionary Guard. They believe, and as Richard said, everybody around these talks believe that 60 days in, they're going to start charging tolls. And then you look at the sanctions relief they're going to get, which again, the Trump administration

as you know, constantly berated Joe Biden's administration for lifting sanctions against Iran from time to time. They're going to do it, and we have talk of reconstruction if Iran behaves well down the road. I mean, as Richard said, and again, the devil's in the details. We're really glad there's a possibility that this war, which should have never started, comes to an end.

But let's just tell it like it is. If people want to be lied to, go to another channel. Because I can tell you which channel to go to. They'll be lying through your teeth to you right now, telling you how wonderful this is. But if you want to know the truth of what's happening right in here, the fact is, Jonathan, people in the neighborhood around Iran

have every reason to be scared to death right now because this is a more radical, a more enraged, and soon to be richer Iran thanks to this war. Yeah, we'll tell like it is. This is a defeat for the United States. Iran is stronger now than they were at the beginning of the war. We heard how often do we heard, not just President Trump complaining about the sanctioned relief that the Biden administration gave Iran, but think about all that the pallets of cash, you know, that he would blast the Obama team for sending Tehran. That's going to be dwarfed by the amount of money that's likely going there now.

On the Strait of Hormuz, not only is, A, after 60 days, Iran has indicated they believe they'll charge for tolls, but B, despite President Trump's celebration last night about the straight being open and free for everyone to use, A, that's obviously that's temporary, but also it already was before the war. That's that was the status quo. That's how things existed. He made things worse. We now have a hardline regime embittered and certainly no reason to ever. trust the United States again because we keep bombing them during the midst of negotiations. Let's think about the cost here, not just the billions upon billions in terms of dollars the United States spent, but also the lives lost, you know, civilians, including a girl's school in the

first hours of the war. This is a significant, you know, the United States looks significantly weaker right now in that region than before. And Iran's ability to close the straight or moves and hit its neighbors seems unchecked. And Caddy, the other subplot here is the relationship with Israel. Joe just voiced the concerns that many in Jerusalem have with this deal. Well, let's go even further. President Trump gave a series of interviews, quick phone calls with people yesterday, really blasting Prime Minister Nanyahu in extraordinary blunt terms.

In criticizing the attacks yesterday in Lebanon, telling the New York Times, he's a very difficult guy. And to be honest with you, he should be very thankful. thankful for us for this, you know, just completely eviscerating, you know, the man who went into this war with because Trump was so desperate to get a deal, get a deal done as quickly as can, and ideally before his UFC birthday party last night. Yeah. The president seems to have woken up to the fact that the U.S. aims and the Israeli aims,

when it comes to the Middle East at the moment, are not aligned. And although Prime Minister Netanyahu may have sold a more optimistic version than many, even the Israeli cabinet believed to President Trump, he's now realized that actually they are not on the same page. And it looked over the weekend like this was an attempt, both by perhaps Hezbollah, but also by the Israelis to scuttle this deal. And that infuriated clearly President Trump. I think one that we don't know what the longer term deal is going to look like. But one of the things I think we have to all focus on is the detail. The JCPOA was 150 pages long. It took 20 months to negotiate.

And it was that long and that detailed because they didn't want to leave anything to chance. And the main thing they didn't want to leave to chance was the inspection program around the nuclear program. At the moment, there's no discussion of an inspection program. And without an inspection program, this is just the Israelis signing on to, as you say, an idea of not having nuclear weapons, most of the people I've spoken to who know Iran much better than I do say at the moment they wouldn't trust the Iranians to stick by what they sign. So there has to be a much more detailed program and there has to be a much more detailed inspections program. Otherwise, this is just wishful thinking. And we are back to February the 27th, having spent an

enormous amount of money and done a lot of damage to other countries' economies around the world. Coming up, Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia is our next guest. We're going to be talking about the big headlines in Washington. and his new book of reflections on the moral meaning of America. That conversation straight ahead on Morning Joe. Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan of the New York Times have new reporting on the debates inside the White House last year over suspending habeas corpus for undocumented immigrants. The reporting comes from their new book, Regime Change, which will be released next Tuesday.

They detail a memo dated April the 29th of 2025 from Will Scharf, an arch-conservative lawyer serving as the White House Staff Secretary with the subject line of the writ of habeas corpus. The Constitution, Mr. Schaff wrote in his memo to Susie Wiles, the White House Chief of Staff, permits suspension of habeas corpus only in cases of rebellion or invasion. Courts have almost uniformly held that only Congress can do it. Mr. Schaff did not say what Mr. Trump should do, but the implication was plain. Suspension of habeas rights without consequences. congressional authorization would almost certainly be found unlawful, and the court fight would become a huge self-inflicted distraction. Suspending habeas corpus was one of two radical ideas that

Stephen Miller, yes, that Mr. Miller had been pushing, that alarmed Mr. Schafe. The other was invoking the Insurrection Act to deploy the military to enforce the law on American streets as protests grew against deportation sweeps. That discussion came to a head in late January. January after federal agents had shot and killed two U.S. citizens who had been voicing their opposition to the administration's deportation policies in Minnesota. Paperman and Swan report that days after the killing of Alex Prettie, Susie Wiles had a meeting in her West Wing office where Vice President J.D. Vance said the administration needed to invoke the Interaction Act swiftly to crush the unrest in Minnesota. The meeting broke up

without a decision, a vague consensus to keep thinking about it, but it'd been clarifying in its own way. Even after the administration's posture had helped escalate tensions in Minnesota, even with the blowback mounting, the vice president and Mr. Miller were still searching for a reason to put federal troops on American streets. Joe, we know that Stephen Miller has wanted to invoke the insurrection. That we know from General Millie. Millie, that President Trump wanted to do it in the first administration as well. What's been amazing about Jonathan and Maggie's reporting is to get right in the room where these discussions were taking place. They were, as the song goes, they were in the room where it happened.

And what is so shocking is what actually was said inside those rooms time and time again. And Jonathan Amir, you actually have the vice president of the United States. talking about invoking the Insurrection Act, talk about an unconstitutional use of power, invoking the Insurrection Act to crush American citizens protesting in American streets. And as Maggie and Jonathan wrote, this was after, this was after they had already gunned down to innocent Americans for doing just, that for protesting, and yet they're still talking about enacting, the Insurrection Act. They're still talking about suspending habeas corpus through this entire period. You know, maybe it's just a lawyer in me, but excerpts from this book are reading whether you look at Todd Blanche trying to

cover up one of the biggest pedophile rings in the history of America, or you have the vice president and Stephen Miller talking about suspending habeas corpus and the Insurrection Act, that sure does look like a place where a lot of lawyers in the future are going to start discovery in their investigations,

whether it is with a Democratic Congress, whether it is with prosecutors, because the president may try, may try to pardon a lot of people. It's not going to be able to pardon the entire government. And these just seem to be clearly illegal acts or a conspiracy to commit illegal acts. No wonder, and I know you've heard this like I've heard this,

no wonder the White House is melting down over this book, because there's so many people who are exposed who are going to have to hold up the right hand at some point and take an oath and tell everybody what happened behind those closed doors. Because even the glimpse we're getting from this book is ugly. Yeah, ugly, as you say, illegal and deeply un-American. I mean, this is extraordinary both of these revelations in this new piece. I mean, as the Times writes about the Insurrection Act debate, that Vance says it needs to invoke the Insurrection Act to crush the unrest in Minnesota.

And this is because he says that this is because outside agitators, and the like are fueling this, even though at that moment, of course, the White House is already realizing that neither Alex Pretti nor is good. Neither of them were paid. These were not, you know, Antifa or whatever nonsense they wanted to put out there. These were just average Americans who were trying to protest what they saw was un-American behavior by these ice agents on the streets of Minneapolis. You're right to say that the White House is freaking out about this book. There was even an Axios report over the weekend that there's fears that that perhaps the Times reporters have recordings from inside the situation room, which would be

an extraordinary step. And they're worried about that. And, you know, let's also remember here, these are floated. They were not acted. Doesn't mean they won't be down the road. And I think that's some discussion even this morning we're having here is like if the Insurrection Act was floated, then who's to say it can't come back at some point, perhaps, in front of the midterm election?

So we're still sifting through this new reporting from Maggie. Jonathan on the Times website dropped this morning, that new book coming out this month. Undoubtedly, there will be more in it. Coming up, what's next for NATO? The alliance is racing to rearm before Russia can build back its own stockpiles. We're going to have a full look at that straight ahead right here on Morning Joe. Welcome back. The Georgia General Assembly is set to convene this week for a special legislative session

to begin redrawing the state's congressional maps ahead of the 2008 election cycle. And there are growing concerns among Democrats that the body could eliminate up to three of the state's five Democratic seats in the House of Representatives. Joining us now, Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia. He also serves as senior pastor of Atlanta's historic Ebenezer Baptist Church. And he's got a new book that comes out tomorrow titled The Crooked Places Made Straight, Reflections on the Moral Meaning of America, part of which focuses. on voting rights. And Senator, good morning. Congratulations on the book.

We'll turn to that in just a moment, but thank you for being here. Good morning. Let's start with what's happening in Georgia there with the redistricting. We have seen since the Supreme Court decision a race across the South to redistrict and to eliminate, for the most part,

or at least to attempt to eliminate Democrat districts, but also those represented by African-American lawmakers. What are your thoughts here as you survey what could happen in your home state? Well, you know, I'm a proud citizen of Georgia and pastor of Ebenezer Baptist Church. And as I think about all of the reasons

that the Georgia Assembly could be reconvening tomorrow, they could convene the legislature to expand Medicaid. We've got 500,000 Georgians in the health care coverage gap or to make housing more affordable. What are they doing? They're getting together to redraw the lines in order to diminish the voices of ordinary citizens. And so it's deeply concerning.

But we would not be here were it not for the Supreme Court, which is apparently right now, you know, extremists who feel emboldened. They are behaving in a very partisan manner. I think they are steadily undermining the credibility of the court. Donald Trump started this fire. But with the Calais decision, the Supreme Court poured fuel on the fire. And what is happening is sad, but wholly predictable, this race all across the South to literally diminish the voices of its black citizens.

So this would not take effect until 2028, but obviously we see some changes will by 2026. And let's just talk about, I know you spent time in the book about the fight for voting rights, there's great fear that Republicans are going to try to restrict access to the ballots this very November. In fact, just a short time ago, we played sound from Homeland Security Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen, point blank repeatedly, refusing to rule out the idea that he might deploy ICE agents to voting booths to polling places, which many would feel is just simply an active intimidation. Well, if they were to deploy ICE agents to the polls, it would be unconstitutional. It would be illegal. But that doesn't seem to get in the way of this administration. So I take them very seriously.

but I'm thinking about all the things they're doing even before you get there. The efforts that we're witnessing with this awful gerrymandering. The Supreme Court was just deeply intellectually dishonest when they suggested somehow, you know, you can engage in partisanship. You can draw all of these crooked lines in order to diminish the voices of black citizens in the South. Just don't call it racial. I mean, think about what they did. Literally, if you don't find an email,

that says, you know, that says go after the black voters, you know, go for it. And we're seeing it. Literally while votes are being cast, they're busy playing with the lines. Gerrymandering, in my view, and the way in which it's happening right now is undermining our democracy. All Americans should care about this. It is a way of turning the democracy upside down so that rather than the people picking their representatives, the politicians, craving politicians right now, are busy. picking their voters. And their focus is power. And craving politicians who want to hold on to

their power at any cost, they will use race, but they won't just use race. They're trying to pass the Save Act, which would disproportionately diminish the voices of married women. This same Supreme Court, through Citizens United, has given corporate interests an outsized voice in our politics, squeezing out the voices of ordinary people. And this is what you get, increasing wealth inequality. And as Donald Trump and his friends are getting richer and richer, and rich or ordinary people are getting poor and poor, and they are afraid that come November,

the American people are going to hold them accountable and they're doing everything they can to try to stop that before it happens. I think that part of that, you and our both ministers, Bible says that the man soles he reaps, they're going to reap the backlash if we protect the vote. I was talking earlier about we're doing patrols with National Action Network in front of polling site. They're going to reap what they've sown because of what they've done to people in terms of affordability, in terms of detention and all. But talk about from a moral point of view.

Your book is named not by accident. And I've known you since you're a seminary student. You always tease me that I'm the first one that had you get arrested at a demonstration. this guy you might get. I had a demonstration that he was arrested. He and Reverend Kevin Johnson were seminary students, so I kind of like helped ushered them into civil disobedience, though they've done far better than me in ministry.

But talk about how the moral side of this is as important to you and others. Because Dr. King never got it, and you passed his church, you never got out of the moral side. There's a moral issue here that I think people are missing that you raised, I think, quite profoundly in your book. You know, I believe that democracy is the political enactment of a spiritual idea. This notion that each of us has within ourselves

what I call a spark of the divine. In other words, we have dignity if you're not given to that kind of language. And so you ought to have a vote. You ought to have a voice in the direction. direction of your country. And so I wrote this book as we are approaching the 250th anniversary of this grand experiment called America. It's really a sermon. And it started out as a servant. This is a sermon I preached at Ebeneas a Baptist Church, where I preach every Sunday and continue to lead that congregation. And it's, you know, this is a tough time as we're entering

the nation's 250th birthday. There are those who are trying to weaponize despair. As you raise what they're trying to do in light of this midterm election, the very spectra and notion of calling the Insurrection Act, the ways in which they are just squeezing people, taking us into illegal wars, these tariffs across the board, you might be given to despair. And there are days when I have to fight hard to push back the shadows of despair that might encroach on my own heart.

And so this is a sermon. Sermons are preached in order to encourage the faith, to remind us of who we are at our best. I love this country. And I still have very, very high hopes for America. And I believe that it is the people who will help make the crooked places straight. This is a verse right out of Isaiah.

You know it. I'm sure you've preached it many times. It's a vision. And so the people are in exile. They have the things that they've been depending on that give you certainty and security are in flux, including the temple and the institutions.

And there are those who want to return from the exile. And I think in this exilic moment, there are those in America who say, can we just return to where we were? No, we need a vision bigger than that. We need to reimagine. And so he says, if alley shall be exalted, mountains and hills made low,

crooked places made straight, rough places is smooth. A lot of rough places these days. And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed in all flesh, you'll see it together. So this is about who we are at our best. I'm interested in this book because of your perspective, your unique perspective as a pastor and as a senator, seeing how policy can impact the most vulnerable among us. And recently you had an interesting conversation with House Speaker Mike Johnson talking about faith after you made the comment that you're a Matthew 25 Christian.

And he took offense to what you said as an insult towards their policy. decisions. Could you talk about that and also just the navigating faith in public policy and how through our government we can actually hopefully be a force for good? Well, you know, last summer they passed a one big ugly bill, I call it. They cut a trillion dollars out of Medicaid. They knocked 15 million people off of their health care. They kicked veterans, seniors, and children off of snap. Literally took food out of the mouths of babies. But before they did that, they did an interesting thing. The speaker and other legislators gathered in a kind of, you know, obvious and ostensible way.

They joined hands and they prayed. And then they passed this bill cutting a trillion dollars out of Medicaid. And I thought about it when it happened. And the verse from Isaiah came to mind that very first chapter where he says, I cannot endure solemn assemblies with iniquity. Although you make many prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are filled with blood. And so, you know, I come from the kingian tradition.

Dr. King was the pastor of Ebenezer Church. And this notion that you engage in public or private acts of piety and devotion while at the same time supporting or forwarding policies that crush the poor, is a deep contradiction. And that's what I was calling out. And I was happy to talk to my Christian brother about that. I hope we can keep talking. All of us need to keep talking,

which is why I wrote this book, The Cricket Places Made Straight. On that hopeful note, Pastor and Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia, thank you so much. Congrats again on the new book, which is titled, The Cricket Places Made Straight, Reflections on the Moral Meaning of America,

and it is available tomorrow. Thank you again, Senator. Great to be with you. Up next here on Morning, Joe. A look at how the war in Ukraine is reshaping Poland's defense posture as it takes precautions against potential threats from Russia. Keep it right here on morning, Joe. As Ukraine's fight against Russia surpasses the length of World War I, its neighbor, Poland,

is now stepping up its own defense against a potential threat from Moscow. MS now international reporter Inezdao Katera has more from Warsaw. Good morning, John. Yeah, here in Poland, officials say they're going to be doing everything they can to expand the U.S. his presence while also telling us they are preparing for the U.S. to continue reducing its commitments on the continent. With the war in Ukraine raging right on its doorstep, there's perhaps no European country more acutely aware of the growing threat posed by Russia, often described as a model ally by the Trump administration, Poland now spends more of its GDP on defense than any other NATO country. President Trump recently reversed course on troop deployments to Poland,

announcing the U.S. would send an additional 5,000 troops to Poland just weeks after the Pentagon announced it would pull 4,000 troops from the European country. Those are not contradictory concepts. If you move U.S. troops or send new ones, whatever, the configuration, to where the threat is, which is the eastern flank, you can have fewer overall in Europe, but more on the eastern flank, which is to say here. Poland's deputy prime minister and minister of foreign affairs says they are, are also preparing for a future in which Europe may have to carry much more of its own defense

burden. Trump has repeatedly threatened to pull the U.S. out of NATO. I suspect it's a trend that we have to live with beyond this administration, that the U.S., you know, because of the debt issue and because of its rivalry with China, will be doing it for the long term. As Poland's economy booms, becoming one of Europe's fastest growing economies, set to join the G20 this year. The country is now positioning itself as a defense leader inside the EU. Through a new European defense initiative known as safe, Poland is set to receive nearly 44 billion euros, the largest share of any member state. What the safe mechanism changes is fulfilling what President Trump said, that Europe has to take responsibility for itself. And that's

what we are doing. Poland also signing new military partnerships across Europe, including a recent defense agreement with the UK. All critical investments officials tell us, because Russia is already waging war on Poland. The first year after the invasion of Russia to Ukraine, we noticed five times more attacks on our infrastructure. Last year, we blocked more than four million, emails that were sent to our soldiers. And Polish officials say the threats go far beyond cyber attacks. This is serious business. We've had arsons.

We've had assassinations. We've had an attempt to blow up rails under a moving train. Only through the incompetence of the Russian operatives, nobody died. We had an attempt to put incendiary devices on place. Imagine what that could have caused. When asked about nearly 200 such incidents across Europe that Western officials blame on Russia, President Putin said there was no proof that Moscow was involved. For Poland, lesson from Ukraine is clear.

Keeping America close remains essential, but Europe can no longer afford to depend as much on the U.S. for its security. And NATO Allies will be meeting next month in Turkey for the NATO summit. Secretary of State Marco Rubio confirmed President Trump will be attended. Rubio says the U.S. will remain a part of NATO and that the meeting will serve to address strategic differences among allies. John? And as Dela Quinterra in Warsaw, thank you so much. And that does it for us this morning. We'll see again tomorrow at 6 a.m. Eastern.

We're happy to say that the premiere episode of Money, Power Politics with Stephanie Ruhl is up next here on MS now after a short final break.