Morning Joe - 'Not even close': Joe laughs at Trump's claims he thought AI image was him as a doctor, not Jesus

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

'Not even close': Joe laughs at Trump's claims he thought AI image was him as a doctor, not Jesus To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

By the way, Trump's comments about the Pope upset a lot of people of Christian faith. But please don't worry. It gets worse. In a separate social media message, the president shared an image of himself in a religious scene that appears to depict Trump as Jesus. Wait, the guy in the bed, can I just... Am I okay? But thank God in my time of need, I was surrounded by family. There's my darling wife, Amy Lynn, Hans Clems.

Last in prayer. My brother. Sergeant Chislejaw. Oh, look at the back. There's Pappy Joe. He and I stormed the Capitol together. Well, it wasn't a picture. It was me.

I did post it, and I thought it was me as a doctor. You was a doctor. Oh, I'm sorry. What's this? Urgent cares. I mean, oh my gosh. Yeah, no. Him as a doctor, not even close.

You know, Willie, there was such backlash yesterday to this. Actually, the backlash. Now deleted post, but backlash once again, that this, and from a lot of his biggest supporters that have never spoken out when he's done the most outrageous things, didn't speak out when he did the most outrageous things, said the most outrageous things on Easter, the holiest of all days.

for Christians across the globe. In this instance, though, there were quite a few people pushing back, even Rod Dreher, who's been a supporter of his and one of the most conservative guys out there, saying a Christian guy who said, I'm not saying Donald Trump was the Antichrist, but that was of the spirit of the Antichrist, somebody claiming to be Jesus Christ or other people that have long been apologists for no good reason. Apologists for this man who does not understand the Bible, does not understand anything about Christianity. He doesn't even name when he was asked in his campaign,

what's your favorite Bible verse? New Testament or Old Testament, I like them both. And then, of course, telling the Christian Broadcasting Network, he doesn't feel the need for God to ever forget. him. And so with that lack of knowledge, maybe he thought, oh, this would be a funny post to put up, not understanding that Jesus says everything is forgivable, except blasphemy, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, certainly blasphemy against Jesus. So it appears at least for a handful of public Christians who have spent the past decade more interested in,

gaining, gaining his support than actually following the Bible. It was even too much for them yesterday. And not an isolated incident. Of course, this comes in the context of his attack on Pope Leo, his ongoing attacks on Pope Leo the next day he posts himself as Christ. Really, just the definition of blasphemy right there in one post, the picture saying I actually am Jesus. I actually am the healer.

And as you say, he doesn't know. that. He doesn't understand religion. He doesn't understand faith. So maybe he actually didn't know that. He thought it was funny or something. So he posted it. And he saw the backlash. And this is a very, very rare occasion where perhaps he understood that maybe he screwed up, pulled it down. But then the explanation shows such contempt for his supporters and the people who believe in him that he would say, oh, no, I thought I was a doctor. Let's move along. No, you didn't. We know exactly what was going on there. So, and the people who are apologizing for him now saying, oh, you guys can't take a joke. Donald Trump is just being funny.

It's very, very pathetic to watch the few people. There weren't many trying to defend this. Yeah, it is so pathetic. And they are so pathetic when they go, oh, you don't get his joke or when he threatens to annihilate an entire civilization. Oh, you just don't understand this is how he negotiations. No, that's, you can't threaten genocide. That's a war crime in and of it. So, yeah, they're trying to spin in circles for him.

I've got to say it's a very simple explanation. The president doesn't know the Bible, doesn't read the Bible, and has pretty much said that. And so he didn't understand the degree of blasphemy that was. And that even for some of his most loyal, faithful, blinded Christian conservatives, That went too far. I've got to tell you, I, Catholics have been having quite a bitter chuckle, though, Mecca, over a guy who decided to become a Catholic last week or a little earlier than that. And then said, I'm going to do two things. I'm going to write a book about being a Catholic. And I'm going to attack the Pope. And I'm going to lecture the Pope about how he should do. his job at the Vatican. This, of course, is J.D. Vance, who decides he's lecturing the

pontiff on what he should and should not do, and acting as if he's shocked and stunned and deeply saddened, that the Pope actually talks about things that pertain to the gospel of Jesus Christ, blessed are the peacemakers. And go out through the entire Gospels. And the Pope time and time again doesn't attack Donald Trump. He just

quotes Jesus. And I've just got to say to J.D. Vance, newly converted Catholic, if you don't like with the Pope saying, don't take it up with the Pope. Take it up with Jesus Christ. Because those are the words. I want you to hear. Again,

And this guy who came to the Catholic faith late decided to write a book about the Catholic faith and then decided to attack the Pope telling him how he should do his job. Well, I want to play a clip of him yesterday. It was it was delightfully soon. In some cases, it would be best for the Vatican to stick to matters of morality, to stick to matters of, you know, what's going on to the Catholic Church and let the President of the United States stick to dictating American public policy. But when they're in conflict, they're in conflict.

I don't worry about it too much, Brett. I think it's a natural thing. I'm sure it'll happen in the future, and it's not that big of a deal that it happened in the past. Matters of morality, you all know. That's exactly what he's talking about, buddy. Come on, pal. He's talking about matters of morality.

Pope after Pope after Pope has been critical of war. He's been critical. when people have been oppressed, like people have been oppressed in the United States because of mass deportation policies. I don't know a pope. I don't know. I mean, I get criticized when, on certain votes I took when I was in Congress by the Catholic bishops, you know, they sent out a scorecard and everything. And, you know, that's just what they've been doing forever. And for you to think, first of all, for the president, think he can portray himself as Jesus and get away with that, even with the biggest suckups?

I mean, that's one thing. But to say, stick to matters of morality, that's exactly what the Pope is doing. And because always, we offer guidance to those who claim to be good Christians, but don't talk like they understand anything about Christianity. Just get a Bible, get a red letter edition, read the red letters. It will all come very clear to you. It's not that hard. I think as a Catholic, one might be insulted by the image of Trump as Jesus, as blasphemous and just horrifying.

But then his explanation that he was actually a doctor, just as a woman, one might find that to be as gaslighting as it gets, given the cost of health care, the fall of pro. and the list goes on. The president, meanwhile, is claiming once again that Iran wants to make a deal. It comes after he ordered a blockade of Iranian ports. We're going to bring you the latest out of the Middle East. We'll have Admiral Kirby standing by for that.

We're also following the election results from this past weekend in Hungary, a huge story. Authoritarian leader, Victor Orban, has been ousted from power after 16 years as Prime Minister. His likely successor, Peter Mayer, held a press conference yesterday following his party's win. Meyer said he won't be calling Russia's Vladimir Putin, but if Putin were to call him, he'd ask the Russian leader to end the killing and stop that war.

Regarding the EU and the NATO alliance, Meyer said, there are relevant issues that will require debate. But, quote, we are not going there to fight for the sake of fighting so we can run. right on billboards, that Brussels is evil and needs to be stopped, Joe. Yeah, yeah, and by the way, just one other thing is, you know, I'm about to bring in somebody who has been a cold warrior, who understands the importance of pushing back against Russian authoritarianism, and this gets me back to the Pope. Isn't it crazy that everybody's fine on, I'm sure J.D. V.S. J.D. Vance,

who was a hero during the Cold War. Oh, he'd go, oh, Pope John Paul II. You know, your father worked with Pope John Paul the Second very closely. And then the Reagan administration worked with Pope John Paul the Second very closely on political matters to help bring down the Soviet Union.

So I guess it's good when they want to use the Pope and bad when they want to use the Pope. Very interesting. We'll see what happens the next time there's an abortion debate if JD decides to use the Catholic church teaching and political reasons are not. With us now, let's bring an author and staff writer for the Atlantic and Applebomber. latest piece on the election to Hungary is titled, Illiberalism is not inevitable.

Also, whether this is the co-host of our 9 a.m. hour, staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, we won't be going to him early this morning because of just how horridly the Red Sox played last night, along with Garrett Crochet, just RR.A's pitcher. No, no, this is going to hurt for a while. This is going to hurt for a while. What will not hurt, Ann, is something that did look inevitable for a very long time, Anne Applebaum, and that is the absolute thrashing of Orban and its coalition. Tell me what happened and talk about the long-term impact of this extraordinary news.

As you know, Joe, Orban spent 16 years in power, and during that time, He went right up to the edge of legality in seeking to control everything he could in the Hungarian state. So he controlled the bureaucracy, the judiciary, 90% of the media. He empowered a group of oligarchs to buy media properties for him, to fund his party. He himself funded this huge network of party propaganda using Hungarian state money. Peter Madhier had said so, started describing that yesterday. He gerrymandered his political system as much as he could, and yet at the end of the day, the fact that he'd driven Hungary to the bottom of the European Union in economic statistics,

in governance, in corruption, finally meant that there was a really significant vote against him. The opposition has won two-thirds of the seats in Parliament, which will give them a constitutional majority, and the majority was so large that even Orban, who had made noises, before the election about contesting, about, you know, maybe there would be, he would have to cancel it because of foreign interference. There was some language on election day about alleged violence, which was invented. Even he had to concede, presumably he'll keep trying to get back power some other way. But it's really a triumph for Hungarian organization for the determination of Madjar and his team. They kept focused on a really broad,

grassroots campaign. They went round and around the country. He went to many towns and villages, many times. He was doing six and seven public meetings a day for the last few weeks. He had no access to media, no access to billboard space. All that was controlled by the government. And he won anyway. So it's a really important election. It's important for Europe because Hungary was the country that was doing Russia's bidding. They were blocking EU efforts to help Ukraine and to sanction Russia. Hungary was also a month. for illiberal leaders all around the world. This election shows that there's nothing inevitable about illiberalism.

You know, the world is not trending in an authoritarian direction. It shows that Orban didn't have some kind of magic touch. And he was in touch with the real Hungarians as opposed to outsiders and foreigners. It's a really very, very important turning point. extraordinarily important turning point, not only for Hungary, also for Western democracy, for liberal democracy, a man who took pride in talking about being illiberal. Also, what we found out during the last few months of the campaign also is how closely tied Orban was to Putin, how closely tied Hungary was. It was like Hungary and both the foreign minister when talking to Lavrov and Orban, when talking to Putin, both made it very clear.

They considered themselves to be a satellite state, a vassal state of Putin's Russia, almost like it was, you know, 1975 or something like that. They told Putin outright they were going to do as bidding, which is what's so shocking to me about just one of the worst Wall Street Journal editorials, one of the most cynical Wall Street Journal editorials, I've read in a very long time. And we usually quote them because on issues of freedom and democracy, they've been very good during the Trump administration. But yesterday they suggested, oh, this was just Libs crying wolf.

There was never any real problem with Orban. I usually have tried to stop swearing in posts. But Ann, I wrote, what a cynical bad faith effort to suggest Orban was never a threat to Western democracy. The man was beaten despite being a willing. pawn to Putin, destroying an independent judiciary, destroying a free press, destroying a fair political system. This is pure. And we dotted it out in case little Johnny's eating cereal at home. But that last word, unless our viewers can't forget it, is this pure bullshit. It really was one of the most cynical, cynical editorials I've seen in a long time. Suggesting that Cold Warriors like

you were like some libs that were crying wolf. Explain what was in stake there? What was at stake with the law and justice party in Poland? You live it. You see it. I will never understand why Paul Giego allowed this editorial to be printed. I know he can't believe that, but really it was heinous. Orban was not a conservative. By the end of his career, whatever he was at the by the end of his career, he was a radical. He was someone who was seeking to use state power to impose his version of culture to favor his friends in the economy. This was not a free market economy in Hungary.

This is nothing that the Wall Street Journal should feel linked to or proud to be connected to. This was somebody who turned Peter Majer, the opposition leader's girlfriend. They made her into a spy for them. They bugged his phone. They had spies throughout all the opposition. I was in Hungary a year ago, talked to one of the opposition leaders who told me his wife had been fired from her job. She had a job in a cultural institution connected to the Hungarian government.

They were persecuting people in the opposition. They hacked their data. They leaked it online with the implication that people should go after members of the opposition, trying to identify them. You know, it was a very ugly, very, you know, very, very, very, very. very aggressive government, which, as I said, had nothing to do with conservatism in the old American sense at all. And as you say, the links to Russia were not superficial. So the leaked tapes, we have the audio and we have transcripts of conversations between Orban's foreign minister and Sergei Lavrov, who's the Russian foreign minister, offering to send him EU documents,

telling him how he's blocking Ukraine, blocking the efforts of Ukraine at EU councils. and we have a very ugly conversation between Orban and Putin himself, where Orban describes himself as a mouse to Putin's lion. I mean, this is somebody who's been describing himself as a nationalist, and he cares about sovereignty, and he's in favor of, you know, the Hungarian culture. And yet it turns out that he was in hoc to one of the worst and bloodiest and most repressive states in the, you know, on the planet.

And he was acting on their behalf. Europe. And here we had at the end, of course, Orban not being a mouse to Putin's line, but a mouse to Hungary's popular sentiment with Hungarians chatting in the final weeks of the campaign, Russians go home. Again, I'm not exactly sure what great comfort the Wall Street Journal editorial page takes from that, but they were very clear. They understood just how dangerous Orban had gotten. And can you just give us an overview? you. We've talked a great deal about Twilight of Democracy. When you wrote that, you obviously had Poland on the brink with the law and justice party. You had Orban getting more power by the day.

You had Putin before, of course, having an extraordinary influence on Donald Trump and the American government. I love what you said. And I believe it. And I've always believed it. I've always been optimistic about this country. I've always been optimistic about Western democracy. Here we are, six, seven, eight, nine years after Twilight of Democracy was written. Where are we today? Well, Twilight of Democracy was about exactly this. It was about the radicalization of the center right and how they became attracted to power, how they thought that once they attained power democratically, they could try to keep it forever,

or they could change the rules so that they would never lose. We saw it happen in Hungary. We saw it happen in Poland. And, of course, we're seeing it happen inside the United States. I mean, much of what Donald Trump and J.D. Vance have tried to do in government in this second Trump turn is exactly what Orban tried to do. In other words, to use their legitimate mandate as Democrats to change the political system to create a one-party state so that they never lose. I really do feel people understand this phenomenon better now than they did eight or nine years ago. You know, Hungarians came to understand it.

Poles came to understand it. I think Americans are beginning to understand it that, you know, being elected doesn't mean you have the power to break the law. It doesn't mean you have the power to defy court orders. It doesn't mean that you have the power to completely transform the bureaucracy to take away merit-based positions and give them to party hacks. I mean, all those things are detrimental to our political system and our government. system of governance. And I feel like people are beginning to understand better now what the risks are.

I can say for those of us, and I'm certainly not associating myself with all the extraordinary work you did and have done, but for those of us whose lives were defined, our early lives were defined by the Cold War, who looked up to Cold Warriors and understood that really was a fight for freedom. who believe that that fight continues every single day in America in Warsaw, in Budapest, across the West. Even as we expand the boundaries of freedom and Applebaum, I just want to say thank you so much for being here today. But more importantly, thank you for your work over the past decade. It's made such a big difference. Thank you.

All right. Mika, coming up next, we're going to be talking about the late. with a fragile ceasefire with Iran, and we're going to get Jonathan O'Meer's new reporting, no, not on Garrett Crochet, but on the war itself. Yeah, we'll also talk to former Admiral John Kirby about that, plus new reporting on the mood within the White House on the heels of that post from President Trump appearing to depict himself as Jesus. Politico's Dasha Burns joins us with a look at some of the responses she has received.

And as we go to break, a quick look at the Travelers' forecast this morning from Ackueweather's Bernie Raynow. Bernie, how's it looking? Mika, you ready for summer? Well, you better be because it's a summer like Tuesday across the Northeast or exclusive ACU weather forecast 77 in Boston, 84 New York City, the first 90 of the season in Washington, D.C. Spotty, but gusty thunderstorms across interior sections in the northeast. Severe thunderstorms will cause ground stops in Chicago today. Southeast is dry. Strong thunderstorms, though, across the Southern Plains. maybe in the Dallas this evening.

No big travel delays in the east. They're in the Midwest. To help you make the best decisions and be more in the know, download the ACUweather app today. And as always, enjoy the view. The hardest enable blockade is concerned. What's the end game?

Is it to force Iran back to the negotiating table? Is it to open up the strait so the gas prices ultimately come down? Maybe everything. I mean, you know, both of those things, certainly, and more. We can't let a country blackmail or extort the world, because that's what they're doing. They're really blackmailing the world. We're not going to let that happen. And you know, the amazing thing is we don't, can you believe

this? We don't use this right. We don't need this right. We have our own oil and gas, much more than we need. We have more oil and gas than Saudi Arabia. Think of this. We produce more. Saudi Arabia and add Russia to it substantially more. And by next year, we'll have double that amount. So we don't need it, but the world needs it. That is President Trump yesterday at the White House when asked by reporters about his rationale for the U.S. military blockade of ships entering and exiting Iranian ports, action aimed at applying economic pressure to Tehran to force a deal and the reopening of the Strait of Hormuz. But it risks driving up oil, gas, and food prices even higher.

It also risked derailing the fragile ceasefire. President Trump yesterday warned any Iranian ships. approaching the blockade would be, quote, immediately eliminated. Iran is pushing back, saying if its ports are threatened, then, quote, no port in the Persian Gulf and the Sea of Oman will be safe. The move also risks drawing China, the world's second largest economy and Iran's largest oil buyer into the confrontation. China yesterday warned a blockade of the strait threatens global interests,

with its foreign ministry spokesman, urging restraint and calling on all parties to adhere to the ceasefire. European leaders distancing themselves from the blockade, with Spain's defense minister arguing, it, quote, makes no sense. And Prime Minister Kier Starmor saying the UK will not support the effort. Meanwhile, negotiations between the United States and Iran do continue. At the White House yesterday, President Trump said, the appropriate people in Iran have called and that they'd like to make a deal. Two U.S. officials and a person familiar with that development tell the Associated Press, the United States and Iran are considering another round of in-person talks before the ceasefire expires next week. That could happen as soon as this Thursday, reportedly either back in Islamabad

or in Geneva, Switzerland. Let's bring in former White House official under President Biden, retired Rear Admiral John Kirby. He's also an MS now national security analyst. Admiral, thanks for being with us this morning. Let's go back to the blockade for a minute if we can. This is actually something that Richard Haas and others have been advent. for over the last several weeks as a way to kind of calm things and take some of the pressure off the straight of Hormuz there. So what do you make of this as a strategy and what do you think it will mean for global markets? Oil hasn't really jumped up much. It's still about under $100 a barrel, too high, but not much where it was before the blockade. So what do you make of

this as a tactic? Well, I mean, I think as a potential diplomatic tactic, it might be helpful. You talked about China when you were first introducing the piece here. I don't see China getting involved militarily to stop the blockade or to open up traffic. They don't have that kind of expeditionary capability. But what this could do, Willie, is encourage the Chinese to be more helpful with Iran and get them back to the negotiating table because China certainly is dependent upon oil coming in and out of the Gulf. So this might entice them to put a little bit more pressure on Iran, to be more serious

at the negotiating table and could lead us to some kind of negotiated settlement. It's not easy to see, because we don't know a whole lot about how the blockade is going to be enforced, as to how this is really going to affect the oil markets in a positive way. I mean, essentially, we're going to be shutting down ships that are going to and from Iranian ports and not shutting down ships that are coming to and from Gulf ports. But the problem is, while you can do that with ships that are going to and from Iran, it's difficult to get shipping companies to feel comfortable that this blockade is going to make it easier or safer for their ships to transit that straight. We know that the U.S. Navy will be stopping the movement, but I haven't seen anything to indicate how the movement that will be permissible will be protected. So those ships could still come under Iranian fire.

So I'm not seeing any positive impact economically out of the blockade, but you can certainly see a potential diplomatic gain. Yeah, let's talk about the diplomatic. gain and the strategic gain because just obviously there are a lot of people that were concerned about this war. A lot of people like myself that was worried, didn't think we should have gone in. We are there now. And so it's very easy to look at everything Donald Trump does and say, well, let's figure out the worst part of it. On this point, I think a lot of viewers will remember Admiral that it was Richard Haas last week that said, wait a second, you can't have Iran deciding who goes in and out of the straits. I mean, that's ridiculous.

They're more powerful today than they were before the war. And Richard actually suggested what the president's doing right now. Do a blockade. Say no ships. Either all the ships come in and out or none of the ships come in and out. And I'm curious, like you said, diplomatically, for negotiations, also to put leverage on Iran. Does that make sense? I think it could, Joe, but I think we've got to see, number one, how is the blockade going to be implemented?

I don't, from what I can discern from the public statements and from what Central Command is putting out, it doesn't look like it's an all or none. It's some ships will be allowed to transit and others won't. So I don't know that it solves the all or none problem. But the point that Richard was making is a valid one. The Strait of Hormuz is an international waterway. No one nation should have governance over what ships can come in or out of a choke point that crucial to the global economy. It is international waters. So I do agree on that.

think that, again, back to Richard's point, which I think was valid, this could put enough pressure on Iran and maybe even China and some other countries, Pakistan and India, to put pressure on Iran to come to the negotiating table a little bit more seriously than it looks like they were willing to do in Islamabad. Now, there's obviously teams that are still talking. So that's helpful. That's good. I hope that that leads to some progress. And maybe what President Trump has done here might be able to energize that process to a more positive outcome. So I see this as a positive in the diplomatic sense. It's not clear to me that from a military perspective, certainly from an economic perspective, the blockade is going to have a positive effect. Well, I mean, obviously,

Jonathan, it'll cause them short-term economic problems. But again, there's some things the president says, obviously, that you really need to keep a running tally to figure out exactly where he is at what moment, but he has been consistent over the past couple days and has been saying a couple of things that we rate as. True. China needs oil out of the straits, more than we need oil out of the straits. Of course, it's a global market, so bad news for some, bad news for all. But at the same time, China gets its oil out of the straight. The rest of the world, a lot of the world, gets its oils out of the strait. We don't get, we're not that dependent on it at all. So when the president says it, well, that's a lot of the world.

That's actually, in that case, that's true. So as Admiral said, maybe this puts pressure on China. I will say, again, the status quo was not possible, allowing Iran to decide who went in and out of the straight, not possible, not permissible, because we were actually making Iran more powerful economically than they were before the war. Yeah, let's reiterate that point right now that Iran has far more control over the strait than did before the war. Before the war, it was open. Now, it is not. I do think we need to keep watching Beijing's reaction to this. You've really read their initial statement.

The president has a summit with Xi Jinping of China scheduled for about a month from now. Trump desperate to keep that summit. It's already been postponed once. Doesn't want to alienate China further. So that's a dynamic worth watching. U.S. officials told me yesterday they think Iran's sort of pain threshold may be a little less than Tehran advertises. They do hope this will make an economic difference. And again, as I said yesterday, they're really hoping this will also bring Europe to the table to help with the blockade, to help with reopening the strait, although to this point it has not.

One more note on the strait, the president yesterday took the social media saying that since the U.S. operations in that area began, 34 ships had crossed the strait, but according to shipping data, it actually at that time had only been four. So President Trump misrepresenting the truth there. Admiral Kirby, we know the straight is one of the two major sticking points in negotiations. The other one is the fate of Iran's nuclear program. We've got new reporting this morning that the president has said Iran can never have this, never, never, never. Well, we know the U.S. officials have actually said, well, you can't have it for 20 years, suspend activity for 20 years.

And then after that, you know, you would be able to proceed. Iran countered and said, well, we'll suspend activity for five. So that's a 15-year gap here. Give us your analysis. What would that leave us? Do you think this can be closed? It remains to be seen. It's an open question about whether they can close that gap.

That is a big gap between 5 and 20. And then it also depends on what you mean by suspension. If it's a total suspension of any enrichment, of any pursuit of the kinds of material that you can make a weapon out of, even for five years, that's certainly a gain to the region and to our national security interest in that part of the world. But again, I think it remains to be seen what they mean by suspension. If they can get something in between five and 20, that's certainly, if it's a full suspension, that's better than what we were able to get in the Obama administration and the Iran deal.

But you remember, the big complaint by Mr. Trump and by conservatives about the Iran deal was, or Republicans, I should say, on the Iran deal, was that there was a sunset clause. that they would be allowed after 10 to 15 years to begin enriching again, even though there was a commitment not to build a nuclear bomb. And here we are talking about yet some form of another sunset clause, where it's not permanent and where Iran will be able, after some period of time, whatever it is negotiated, to begin to enrich uranium at a level high enough for potential bomb-making material.

So it's an interesting turn of events here, given the strong criticism of the Iran deal back in 2015. All right, MSNAL, National Security analysts, retired Drew, Admiral John Kirby, as always. Thank you so much, sir. We greatly appreciate it. All right, Mika, I just want to keep underlining this because I think this is the political reality. We've said from the very beginning of this war that our military is doing extraordinary job, hitting military targets.

Of course, there have been some tragedies, some grave tragedies that the United States obviously needs, needs to apologize for. But by and large, the military targets have been hit. They're, though, again, the two political items that the president has to check off his list if he wants to be able to declare this, anything more than an absolute abject failure is, one, the opening of the Straits, and two, as the Admiral said there at the end, a nuclear deal. a dismantling of the nuclear program are pushing down the road so far, 20, 25, 30 years, pushing down the road when they're able to restart that program, that the president can actually come back and say,

this was worth the battle. That's going to be a very high bar for him politically with gas at over $4 a gallon, but those are the two things. Those are not negotiable. The straits being opened up and up and Iran's nuclear program being negotiated away. The why. The why of this war, I think, is where the president needs to land on something that made it understandable and potentially even worth it to at least some of the American people. You know, there was a lack of clarity even in his latest comments. I think he was talking to the DoorDash delivery person next to him talking, you know, we don't even use the straight. I think Americans and also Congress really needs an understanding of the why. of this war and be good to hear from Congress about this as well. Well, you know, we may not use the straits, but working Americans are pounded.

Every time they go to the gas, I know, I'm explaining, just following up what you're saying, that even if we don't use the straight that much, working Americans, the people that can afford high gas prices the least, they're the ones impacted the most when the straight is closed. that's why the straight has to be opened up. Right, right, right. Coming up, it was a week of losses for Vice President J.D. Vance in the realm of foreign policy. After unsuccessfully campaigning for Orban in Hungary and failing to get a deal with Iran in Pakistan, how might this affect his standing in the Trump administration and any future political ambitions?

Ed Luce of the Financial Times joins us with his new piece on the quote, ever shrinking J.V. Vance. Morning Joe. We'll be right back. Organ support to you and your policies. Phrasing you for defending Romanist freedom. Yeah. You know, do you owe Pocchio an apology? Do you apologize? No, I don't because Pope Leo said things that are wrong. He was very much against what I'm doing with regard to Iran. And you could not have a nuclear Iran. Poplio would not be happy with the end result. You have hundreds of millions of people dead and it's not going to happen. So I can't.

I think he's very weak on crime and other things. So I'm not. I mean, he went public. I'm just responding to Pope Leo. We believe strongly in law and order and he he seemed to have a problem with that. So there's nothing to apologize for. He's wrong. And the other thing is he didn't like what we're doing with respect to Iran. But Iran is a, wants to be a nuclear nation. so they can exterminate the world, not going to happen. The Pope obviously was criticizing President Trump's statement that he was going to wipe out an entire civilization. You couldn't hear it very well. But on the plane earlier, that earlier clip, Pope Leo said, I do not fear President Trump.

Pope Leo responding to President Trump's long rant on social media on Sunday, criticizing the pontiff, the Pope saying, I have no fear of either the Trump administration or speaking out loudly about the message of the gospel. And as you heard, the president does not believe he owes the Pope an apology despite backlash from Christians and many of his own supporters in this case. Politico's White House Bureau chief, Dasha Burns, reports internal frustration inside the Trump administration sharing means from sources describing the mood there as chaotic. In a social media thread, Dasha says she asked Trump allies for images capturing the atmosphere at the White House. Some responses, including an office worker typing at a desk engulfed in flames. You know that one.

And the familiar, this is fine dog calmly drinking coffee as chaos burns around him. Both sent, she says, by sources close to the administration, all pointing to frustration and unease behind the scenes, despite public messaging staying on track. The White House pushed back sharply in a statement to Politico saying, No one cares about Politico's collection of anonymously sourced memes, insisting the administration. administration remains focused on its policy agenda. Let's ask Dasha about that. She joins us now. So, Josh, I'll let you characterize the mood of the White House. I think those memes probably represent something that is happening internally. We've seen the reporting from Peter Baker at the New York Times as well, that there are internal concerns about the state of Donald Trump right now

up all night making these bizarre posts. What did you find talking to your sources? Yeah, this was the first one for me, Willie. You know, when I'm talking to sources, I'm looking for quotes. But this modern world we live in, listen, we live in a meme-based world, especially under this administration. So I decided to get a vibe check in a kind of different way. And, you know, the old adage picture says a thousand words. I think a meme in this moment might say even more the dog drinking the coffee with the fire around it. I was sent that twice from two separate sources close to the White House. an oldie, buddy-goody. There were some religious-themed memes. Listen, the vibes aren't great.

The sources I was talking to were pointing to things like there's the religion theme that the president kicked off there. The DoorDash moment yesterday, for example, the president stepped on his own message there by attacking the Pope, by posting that Jesus. themed meme. Republicans were getting ready to hit the campaign trail talking about the economy. They're going to have a really hard time doing that right now because of what's happening with the war in Iran and what that's doing to prices back home. Tax season. I was talking to White House officials late last year on the record and they were saying that this was going to be the moment when the big beautiful bill would impact the voters that really need it the most. And this is when voters would start to get excited to vote for Republicans in November because they would see those tax

refunds. Well, that is also all being overshadowed by the rising cost of living because of some of the issues abroad. So this is not where the administration wants to be. And this certainly is not where Republican allies of the administration who are trying to help boost Republicans in the midterms want to be. And I, again, I think the images that I got really just say it all without without words. So, Dasso, we've got rising prices. We've got, of course, the faltering war in Iran. We've got the president going after the Pope. Let's add to that, Victor Orban losing. Trump's one of his closest international allies. When President Trump was asked about this in the hours after the election, Sunday night, as he returned to Washington, he simply turned on his

heels and walked away from reporters, refusing to comment. What's the latest you've heard from inside the administration as to their feelings on Orban losing and how that could affect, of course, geopolitics, but also do they view it as potentially a warning sign for their type of political movement, which also, of course, faces voters in a few months? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, the president's endorsement has been seen as kind of an invisibility shield for candidates. It's had this magic wand effect here in the United States for some years now where when he endorses a candidate, they skyrocket. That did not translate to Hungary. And Victor Orban is somebody that the administration has invested heavily in that

relationship. You saw a vice president, J.D. Vance, with everything that's going on here at home, head over to Budapest, to support and stump for Victor Orban. And then he loses in such grandiose fashion, right? This is a serious warning sign for the Trump administration. And my colleague Alex Burns wrote a great column about what lessons Democrats and those who oppose Trump could actually take from Orban's loss and from the way that the opposition garnered that support. So there is a lot to extrapolate from Hungary here. A lot. White House Bureau chief at Politico, Dasha Burns. Thank you so much. We greatly appreciate it.

Her latest piece is available to read online now. And Jonathan Amir, by the way, yeah, you just go back and you look at all the people that went over there and through their weight. Members of the president's family throwing their weight behind Orban, the president himself, Marco Rubio, who knew better, went there anyway. J.D. Vance, who did not know better, went there anyway. And things went terribly. And I would say even if you look at some races, not a lot, but still, there are. are some Republican primaries where a Trump endorsement doesn't carry the day anymore, which, of course, was absolutely unheard of up until the last year or so.

But I want to talk. You spoke briefly in the 9 o'clock hour yesterday about all of the tweets that the president made overnight. You do have people inside the White House, as Josh's and other people have reported. They're very concerned right now with the president. How many tweets did he do? How many truth socials did he do overnight? I know it seems if you look at the number that he was literally up all night. What did you got there?

Yeah, I'm pulling it up here. We did talk about it yesterday, and it's certainly worth revisiting now because let's remember we heard for four years so many conversations about President Biden's ability and mental capacity to do the job. Those questions starting to percolate now rightly about President Trump. Here's a list here compiled on social media. We went through some of this yesterday. It actually starts before that because the criticism of Pope Leo was about 9 o'clock p.m. Sunday night. And about 45 minutes later, he put up the AI Jesus photo that got him in so much trouble.

And then it's a long list, a mix of like, you know, New York Post stories and stupid memes and the Trump Tower on the moon. And then real news, he jumps in with details of the Hermuz blockade. And then he starts reposting articles about President Biden doing. it more than once the same piece and doing it, as you can see on the times there, between 235 a.m. and 4.10 a.m. This is the president of United States who had been in South Florida for the weekend attending a UFC fight while Vice President Vance was in Pakistan trying to broker a deal with Iran. And he was up all night, it appears, not sleeping. And this sort of behavior, Joe, is exactly why there are people wondering about his mental state right now and Mika,

about how, you know, he is, things aren't going well. Let's just put it clear. Between the war, rising pride, we just went through the list with Dasha there. And Republicans are looking at potentially a really tough November. Most of all the GOP members I speak to say the House has gone. The Senate could go as well. And as much as President Trump is sort of saying he doesn't care about that, he knows his life would get far more complicated if Democrats control one or both chambers and Congress.

Yeah. And mentioning J.D. Vance, he seems to be the frontman of bad news lately. President Vance was asked yesterday why he and other Trump administration officials campaigned in Hungary on behalf of Prime Minister Victor Orban. Take a look at his response. We didn't go because we expected Victor to cruise to an election victory. We went because it was the right thing to do to stand behind a person who had stood by us for a very long time. So this wasn't about Russia and fundamentally it wasn't about Europe. It was about the United States and the fact that he's been a good partner to both me and the President, personally, but also to the United States. I'm sad that he lost. We'll work very well, I'm sure, with the next prime minister of Hungary. But it wasn't a bad trip at all because it's worth standing by people, even if you don't want every race. No, it was a bad trip. It was a terrible trip. If you believe in Western democracy,

if you believe in liberal democracy, if you believe in all the things we grew up believing, about pushing back against authoritarianism in Europe. I don't know. Maybe JD was, I don't know what he was doing back in 89, but for those of us that can remember it and remember the wall coming down and remembering what your father fought for, remembering what Reagan fought for, remembering what Thatcher fought for, remembering what Pope John Paul II fought for. All of those battles were not so an autocrat could take control of a country, cripple the free press, crush dissent inside of his own country. and do the sort of things that Victor Orban did, just cripple the judiciary. All the things that Donald Trump has tried to do in America, intimidate the press, intimidate judges. That's what Victor Orban did for 18 years. And again, the fact that you had J.D. Vance, Sergei Lavrov,

Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, Marco Rubio, members of Trump's family going all in. for the same guy, the worst autocrat, the guy who bragged about being illiberal, about being against traditional Western values, the fact that you think that's okay, well, it just shows how little you know about freedom, how little you know about the history of Western civilization, and how little you know about all the gains that people throughout the decades and generations, all the sacrifices that were made in keeping Europe free. This is a great day for a free Europe. They're going to be bumps ahead.

They're going to be problems ahead. This leader that got elected is not perfect. But at least he understands that we are stronger together than we are apart. And at least he understands that Russians should not be running hungry. Hungarians should be running Hungary.