Morning Joe - President Trump in Asia for trip focused on trade, diplomacy

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

President Trump in Asia for trip focused on trade, diplomacy Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I'm looking forward to who presents themselves in 2028 and who meets that moment. And that's the question for the American people. Is it fair to say after the 2026 midterms, you're going to give it serious thought? Yeah, I'd be lying otherwise. I'd just be lying. And I can't do that. A lot of action happening behind the scenes. That was way too early, though, for this Monday morning right now.

Martha, in case you don't know it, I'm actually a soybean farmer, so I have felt this pain too. And there are a couple of things happening here. One, the Chinese have substantially dropped their purchases to almost zero. So they unfortunately have been using American farmers who are amongst President Trump's biggest supporters. I think he had more than 90% support. Yeah, that was Treasury Secretary, Scott. Besson yesterday on ABC, letting the farmers know he too is a soybean farmer and he too has felt their pain. Besson announced the framework of a trade deal between the U.S. and

China that could be signed this week. That actually would be significant. President Trump, meanwhile, is continuing on his trip across Asia landing earlier this morning in Japan. The president's increasing the taxes on Canadian goods. Oh, it's such an emergency. These tariffs are such an emergency. Supreme Court. Listen, this is an emergency. You must rule in the president's favor. It's such an emergency. It ends up that they ran an ad that quoted Ronald Reagan verbatim on tariffs during a World Series game. So he's increasing tariffs on Canada by 10%. What an emergency only in Donald Trump's Washington and in Washington. The government shutdown enters day 27 is a funding deadline for critical federal programs.

It's just days away. And one of America's largest airports, in fact, one of the largest airports in the world was hit with long delays because of an air traffic controller shortage. Also ahead, we're going to have an update on last week's incredible heist at the Lube museum in Paris. They may have caught a couple of people and our own Jonathan and Lamere cleared from any suspicion. Thank God we had been sweating that out over the past week. Good morning and welcome to morning Joe. It's Monday, October 27th with us. Notice that stone face, right? They said we know you get stone face. We have our co-hosts of fourth hour staff writer at the Atlantic that before mentioned

aforementioned Jonathan Lemire, also opinion writer at the New York Times, more a gay, columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius, the White House correspondent for Reuters, Jeff Mason, and Chief White House correspondent for the New York Times, Peter Baker. And Jonathan Lemer will start with you, first of all, because, one, cleared of all charges. But number two, more importantly, I just think Pablo may not be happy when the computer rankings come out, I'm not sure, but your own New England Patriots may be on that list. They are looking good. Morning, Joe, good to see you. I will note, though, that my lawyers, they did some excellent

work this weekend. That's why I'm still able to appear here despite the cast of suspicion sent my way. But we will note that Mika not here today. So just we'll stay tuned for further developments in the case. She likes jewelry. Yeah. So we're just going to, we'll see how that plays out. We've been advised not to say anything else. Yes, Joe, we don't want to get ahead of ourselves for our much anticipated, always anticipated NFL power pole. We were up late last night working at the Midtown Hotel, at the Marquis, and with the computer in the background. But one, yeah, Drake May, Drake May and his New England Patriots, look, two things can be true at once. They have an extraordinarily easy schedule. That said, they're taking care of business with

that easy schedule, and they keep winning. It was a pretty uninspiring week of football, to be fair, lots of blowouts, but the Patriots making statements here keep piling up wins. Yeah, you know, it's been a really bland NFL season. It has, it seems, every year we talk about every week over the past two, three seasons, it's an exciting game, the wonderful storylines. This is just really bland. It's been a bad season. Actually, the best game in the NFL was last night between the Steelers and the Packers, a great comeback by the Packers. But, yeah, for the most part,

this has been a pretty, pretty uninspiring season, but you're Patriots, man. They've turned it around with a coach that the Tennessee Titans were just so stupid to get rid of two years ago. Yeah, and the Patriots, look, they're the lovable underdogs. We know the rest of the NFL, the rest of the sports world.

It's been really rooting for us because, you know, it's been so long since the Patriots of tasted success. Never win. So it is nice to see us finally, like, get a shot at it. You know, we haven't had a good quarterback in a little bit. So now we have one again. And I know the rest of the league feels really good for us. That's it.

Jonathan, you're deflating the storyline already. Why don't we go into the news? All right. Yes, a lot to get to. And as Joe mentioned, President Trump is in Japan this morning, the second stop on his nearly week-long trip in Asia. While there, the president will meet with the Japanese prime minister, who is the first woman to hold that office. The two leaders are expected to discuss defense spending and trade, the latter of which tops the agenda for each stop on Trump's Asian tour.

So far, the president completed the first leg of his trip in Malaysia, landing in Kuala Lumpur to a red carpet welcome and a dance party. So the president broke out some of his own moves there before announcing a series of economic agreements that include access to critical. minerals, as well as signing a peace declaration between Thailand and Cambodia. Later this week, President Trump will conclude his visit in South Korea, and that's the main event, because that's where he's expected to sit down with Chinese leader Xi Jinping. Ahead of that high-stakes face-to-face meeting, the first of President Trump's second term, U.S. officials say they reached a framework of a trade deal with Beijing. Treasury Secretary Scott Besson spoke about the deal and then

Trump previewed the upcoming talks. President Trump gave me a great deal of negotiating leverage with the threat of the 100% tariffs on November 1st. And I believe we've reached a very substantial framework that will avoid that and allow us to discuss many other things with the Chinese. I think we will be able to discuss them helping us get this terrible fentanyl crisis under control. I think we are going to be able to discuss substantial soybean and ag purchases for our American farmers. We have a lot of things to discuss, including our farmers. We have a lot of things to discuss.

There are various trade deals that have been made in the past, and some broken, some not broken, but we've got many, many things. They have to make concessions. I guess we would too. We're at a 157% tariff for them. I don't think that's sustainable for them, and they want to get that down, and we want certain things from them. But I love China to help us out with Russia. We put very big sanctions on Russia.

I think those sanctions are going to be, you know, they're very biting, they're very strong, but I'd like to see China to help us out. I have a good relationship with, as you know, presidency, very good. We're going to be meeting. We'll have a good meeting. I'm pretty sure we're going to have a great meeting. Maybe a great meeting. But I think we're going to do some good business. One of the things we'll talk about is the Russia, Ukraine.

There's President of the United States, of course, and before that, David Ignatius, poor soybean farmer, Scott Besson, who just like this scene out of, you know, field of dreams, you'll, you know, have the bank coming, probably trying to take away his soybean farm this past weekend because he's filling the pain too. But both of them are pointing to a potential deal with China, and, of course, whatever goes on in Asia this week,

that right now is what, at least what the markets and what all the businesses across the world are looking at. Give us your insights on that China-US deal, if it's going to happen, what it's going to look like, and also anything else you saw this weekend that caught your eye out of the President's Asian tour. So, Joe, this trip to Asia is a classic of Trump's negotiating style. He climbed all the way up on the mountain with 100% tariffs on China as a negotiator. negotiating tactic. You knew that in the end, he was going to climb back down. And sure enough, Scott Besson arranged that. So we are now heading. It appears toward a trade deal between the U.S. and China that will have a moderate tariff regime. The Chinese, it

appears, will remove at least for a year. There are very tight restrictions on rare earth minerals, which turn out to be very strategically important. And the talk from both sides is of a good meeting between Xi and Trump and Thursday in South Korea. Another key part of this trip is what I would call alliance management and maintenance. The U.S.-Japan alliance is one of the most important that we have. It's a new Japanese prime minister, a woman for the first time. It's tremendously important that that meeting should be held tomorrow, Japanese time, go well and anchor the U.S.-Japan relationship firmly again in the ways that it was with

Shenzhou Abe, who President Trump liked enormously during his first term. Whether Trump can get Chinese help on the project that's really frustrating in the most, which is making peace in Ukraine, remains to be seen. He said in the past, you know, he liked Chinese help. There was little to make us think that the Chinese really are ready to intervene as peacemakers, but that would probably be the real plumb on this trip. So Peter Baker, you know, people love to say Trump always chickens out, Taco. It's not actually the case.

We've been seeing enough of this to understand what actually happens is Donald Trump always makes maximalist demands, outrageous demands. Then he ends up moderating them. So suddenly that 10% tariff that would have seemed to be so much in the beginning is far lower than 130% tariff. It looks like that's where we're headed now with China, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. I think you're right to point out that he sets the expectation is so high that when he actually comes down to wherever it is, he lands somehow it seems less radical. But think about 10% by itself. Remember how 9% inflation was enough to hobble President Biden.

will 10% tariff on a lot of goods coming in mean they're going to be at least, you know, 10% higher. At least a lot of them are going to be that way. And so, I mean, it's, it's, it's, even that is going to have an effect on consumers here in the United States. People are going to see an effect, you know, at the stores. We'll see what happens at Christmas, which is coming up relatively soon. Not 150 some percent, but obviously even a relatively small by comparison to that tariff increase, you know, still has some bite. And it's going to be interesting to see how that affects the economy going forward. We'll be keeping an eye on that, of course, as the president travels across Asian. As we mentioned, he's also doubling down his spat with Canada over a television

ad that uses audio of former President Ronald Reagan denouncing tariffs, saying he is punishing the country with an additional 10% tariff hike. Trump said the ad, which first aired during the American League Championship Series last week was a, quote, fraud and a hostile act. And he accused Ontario of misrepresenting Reagan's stance. However, as we've been taking pains to note, the audio used in the ad was authentic. And minor edits to Reagan's original 1987 address simply did not alter the substance of his remarks, which were highly critical of the consequences of tariffs. The speech was explaining his decision to impose duties on Japanese goods. Ontario premier Doug Ford pledged in a social media post to pull the ad after the

weekend, with it still airing in the United States during the first two World Series games, Friday and Saturday games that, of course, just happened to be played in Toronto. Trump suspended months-long trade talks with Canada, the U.S.'s second largest trading partner on Thursday night because of that ad. It's not clear what goods will be affected by Trump's newly announced tariffs. And Joe, you hit the nail right on the head at this top of the hour here. The president's team will be arguing before the Supreme Court to these tariffs, and he has the authority to impose tariffs, usually that's done by Congress. He's doing it because it's a national emergency. And yet, he has said it couldn't be

clearer here that he's doing it because he was feelings were hurt because of an ad put together by the province of Ontario. Well, exactly. And again, good luck going even before this Supreme Court and arguing that these are based on emergencies. Everything is an emergency this term with Donald Trump. And, you know, an emergency because of an ad that quotes Ronald Reagan accurately and his views on tariffs, that's an emergency. No, I don't think so. Not having China move along the way he wants on a geopolitical disagreement regarding a war in Russia.

that's an economic emergency that requires 130 percent. No, no, not at all. I mean, the emergency argument has always been specious at best. Now it's just been laid bare, especially with what happened over the past couple days. With Canada actually accurately quoting Ronald Reagan, the Wall Street Journal editorial board weighed in on a piece called Reagan versus Trump on tariffs, which reads in part, quote, Mr. Trump is wrong about the Reagan speech. And he was wrong when he said on social media that, quote, Ronald Reagan loved tariffs for purposes of national security and the economy. The Gipper was a free trader. In that 1987 speech, Reagan was trying to explain why he was making an exception to his free trade policies on semiconductor imports from

Japan. It is a shame, and my God, do I not, I agree with this a thousand percent. The Wall Street Journal writes, it is a shame to see the Reagan Foundation of all places indulging Mr. Trump's peak with its statement saying the speech was taken out of context. Anyone who reads the whole speech can see the Gipper favored free trade with rare exceptions for political pragmatism and national security. Mr. Trump's been fortunate that his tariffs haven't triggered much retaliation, which has spared us from a global trade war. But the tariffs are doing economic damage by raising costs for consumers and businesses and by dampening animal spirits that should be soaring with this tax bill and deregulation. The Wall Street Journal editorial page goes on to say

he can boast about tariffs all he wants, but he shouldn't get away with taking Reagan's trade beliefs in vain. The ultimate sin. The unforgivable sin for the Wall Street Journal editorial page, Mara. But again, as I explained the other day, because I'm such a dork, I actually, before the show last week, I stayed up, I watched the entire Reagan radio address. And as other conservative commentators have pointed out, Donald Trump's lucky that Canada didn't play the whole whole five minutes because it's actually harsher than the parts that they took out. Reagan said clearly on that April 25th, 1987 radio address that tariffs destroy America's economy and that trade wars destroy jobs puts millions of people out of work, Reagan could not have been more clear.

And so for Donald Trump to say this is an emergency and we're going to add 10% and then for the Reagan Foundation to sully themselves by trying to turn Ronald Reagan like into some protectionist is for a lot of people who supported Ronald Reagan, grotesque. It is. But, you know, Reagan had a lot of opinions on tariffs, but he didn't impose them unilaterally. And I think it's important to step back. And, you know, when you're looking at it. at this chaos that has unfolded over this past year on tariffs. This is just a vivid illustration of why we have separation of powers to begin with, why you don't generally see a president impose unilateral tariffs, because now we have a situation in what would the founding fathers have thought? The president of the United States, his ego is too fragile to put up with an ad quoting Ronald Reagan.

So there's more world chaos because of that. I think, you know, this is also just awkward for Americans because, needless to say, Canada is not only our second biggest trading partner, but it is our neighbor. My grandparents were Canadian. Nobody's going to look at Canada and think of them as the enemy. People who live in those border states, actually,

Michigan, my family is in Michigan. I mean, there's an economy in both sides of the border. This is ridiculous. And I think it's up to the Supreme Court to show that they can follow the separation of powers and make it clear that the president does not have the authority to impose these tariffs unilaterally. Hopefully the American people get an explanation from this court and that the president can get a message from them that's spelled out clearly about the separation of powers. This is really hurting not only other countries.

This is hurting Americans right now, especially 27 days into a shutdown. Well, yeah, and Jonathan O'Meer, it's also hurting, actually, the Americans' opinion of the Supreme Court, which has been historically low already. But the court hasn't stepped in. The Supreme Court hasn't stepped in on Donald Trump sending Marines out to Los Angeles. they're not stepping in with Donald Trump saying Chicago is a dangerous city and all these other places are dangerous cities. We have to send the National Guard out for basically to make them safer cities, which is for law enforcement. It's not to protect courthouses or ice. You know, that may be the ultimate justification. You look at tariffs, again, a Ronald Reagan speech

that Canada ran that used Reagan. I mean, that's an emergency. Is the same? Supreme Court really going to shame themselves by saying that? This isn't even a closed call. You look at Brazil. You know, he liked the authoritarian leader in Brazil who got pushed out. They brought charges. So what happens? Donald Trump starts talking about tariffs and jacking up tariffs with Brazil. This is all deeply, deeply personal. The Supreme Court, by allowing him to do this, is allowing a president of the United States to actually actually. twist tariff powers, take them away from Congress, use them for what he calls emergency purposes, when in fact he's only using them as his own political hammer to go after people

who criticize his policies on tariffs. No emergency there. And the court, even this Supreme Court is going to have to like get up off the bench and actually get into the game. and clear things up. And all those issues you just laid out, the Supreme Court choosing, at least at this point, to sit on its hands, almost offers its own sort of blessing. But you're right, when this actually comes before them, this is a very difficult defense of these Trump tariffs

that his administration will have to make because it is so deeply personal. And Jeff Mason, you and I have covered a couple of Trump terms at this point, and we know how much this foreign policy is shaped by personal relationships. He's talking up now. She's in paying, we get along really well. So we'll get that trade deal. done. We'll see. But with Canada, it is not that at all. And in fact, Mark Carney is someone who had

his first meetings, weren't okay. People around both men have said. But now Trump won't even meet with Carney, who's also in Asia for some of these summits, because he is throwing, let's just say it clear. He's throwing a fit over these tariffs and this ad. And, you know, how dare you challenge me? So therefore, I need my own form of retribution. Also, I think important to know that it's Mark Carney, who's the interlocutor for these talks with President Trump. It's not the Premier of Ontario. But that's not a, I mean, that's a subtlety that President Trump obviously isn't taking seriously. Let's look a little bit about why it was so offensive to him. President Trump likes to be compared favorably to Ronald Reagan. The president moved a portrait of Ronald Reagan that

was in the grand, I think it was in the grand foyer of the White House into the Oval Office. And now it's in nearly every single shot of him in the Oval Office, at least when he's standing up behind a podium. does not like the suggestion that there's a difference between his conservatism and what conservative, more probably traditional conservancy is the hero of their party and of their movement, which was Ronald Reagan and his philosophy. So the Ontario Premier used both that weakness or that sort of vulnerability and the power of television through a television ad to really get under the president's skin. And as we've seen anything that gets under the president's

skin will lead him to make policy judgments and policy decisions. And in this case, it was on tariffs that will affect both countries and prices for Americans until something comes or happens that can bring that temperature down again. And it probably will. I mean, look at how many times the president has backtracked and talks with Canada, the same with many other countries. But right now, tensions are high. Well, and at the same time, Peter Baker, again, when that when that case is argued before the Supreme Court, of course, those that are going to argue against, quote, the emergency that's compelling the president to seize his power from Congress, has this, whether he backs down ultimately or not, has this data point to show that Donald Trump

uses tariffs and hiking tariffs for every other reason under the sun other than an economic emergency. Right. He loves terrorists because they are, at least to date, anyway, unchecked power, right? This is what an executive like him wants. He wants to be able to make decisions with a snap of a finger. I tariff you because I don't like this. I tear up you because I don't like that without having to actually go to Congress, without having to make a legal finding, without having to go through a process, without having to do anything to justify specifically other than his own, you know, mood of the moment, whether the Supreme Court, you know, continues to allow that to go forward or not. We'll see. But that's why he likes it because it seems so unchecked.

And it's just, you know, we saw these protests, no kings the other day. Well, this is a kind of kingly power, right, where he doesn't have to get anybody else's approval or anybody else's concurrence. But the consequence of this, aside from consumers, by the way, it's also for businesses. I was having dinner the other night with these executives from a major company. And they said, well, there's no way we can make a decision based on, you know, what's happening with tariffs. How do we know what the tariffs are going to be next year, much less next week the way he goes? So if you're going to try to build a factory, if you're going to try to make long-term plans

for the, you know, what your business is going to do, are you going to have jobs here overseas, which in theory is what these tariffs are supposed to be about, you know, you're left kind of stuck in this uncertain moment because he literally changes his mind by the day. Chief White House correspondent for the New York Times, Peter Baker, thank you so much. And as we are showing those pictures of Donald Trump, it's just, again, let's not forget. You can march and say we don't want kings. There are two reasons why the head of the second branch of our government is able to, to do that. And that's because the cowardice of the first branch and the cowardice of the third

branch. If either of those two stepped in, and if the Supreme Court actually stopped stalling and letting Donald Trump act the way he's acting in this ambiguous world, legal world, that they're allowing, whether it's with him sending Marines to Los Angeles, or whether it's sending National Guard troops to these cities that he says they need to be sent there to drive crime down, clearly unconstitutional on both sides of that. If they'd step in or if the first branch of government, Congress, Article 1, first branch, if they would step in and I actually say, no, no, no, Constitution, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, they gave us the power to impose tariffs. We wouldn't have this issue. But it's complete cowardice by the first and

the third branches of government that allow the second branch to continue to expand its powers. That's simple. Still out of morning, Joe, the ladies in the government shut down, as millions of Americans face the ability, the losing the ability to afford groceries if SNAP benefits run out this coming weekend. We had, of course, even a Republican governor declaring an emergency last week to make sure that Virginians could get SNAP payments. Plus, New York City mayoral candidate Zoran Mamdani rallies with two of his most prominent supporters amid a huge surge in early voting as desperate Republicans are trying to get him deported. Not making that up. And a reminder that the Morning Joe podcast, I know, it's changed your life. You don't have to tell me.

It's available each weekday featuring our full conversations and analysis. You can listen to wherever you get your podcast. And yes, it's true. It helps you with your back swing and reverses male pattern baldness. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. Plan to call it after myself, that was expected. Probably going to call it the presidential ballroom or something like that.

We haven't really thought about a name yet. So President Trump is saying that his new White House ballroom will not be named after himself. That was on Friday, as he directly addressed reports that he would indeed dub the new space, the Donald J. Trump ballroom. Backlash over the project has really great. grown after the entire East Wing was demolished to make way for the new structure. The plans for the space have also expanded and gotten more expensive, now costing more than $300 million in nearly doubling the size of the entire rest of the White House.

Conservative columnist Peggy Noonan's latest piece for the Wall Street Journal is titled A Republic, but can we keep it? In it, Peggy writes about America's long history and President Trump's heavy-handed changes to the government, including the demolition of the White House East Wing. Peggy writes in part this. All this was done without public demand or support and was done in a way that was abrupt, complete, unstoppable. Congress has the power of the purse for such projects, but the president says no,

our wonderful donors are paying for it, but the names of the donors were not quickly revealed. Your imagination was forced to go to why? Might certain bad actors be buying influence? Crypto kings, billionaires needing agency approvals, felons buying pardons, AI chieftains on the prowl? Might the whole thing be open to corruption? Would it even have been attempted in a fully functioning, sharp and hungry republic, or only a tired one that's being diminished? The photos of the tearing down at the East Wing were upsetting because they felt like a metaphor for the idea

that history itself can be made to disappear. And Joe, you know, there are so many issues facing this country right now. It is of note, though, how the destruction of the East Wing and the way it was done. It would be one thing if this was weeks-long, months-long approval process where reviews and commissions and architects and Congress gets involved, that'd be one thing. But the way this was done so swiftly with no notice and the way plans just changed from a minor renovation to the demolition of the entire East Wing, really did seem to upset a lot of people.

And to Peggy's point, an on-the-nose metaphor for how President Trump is leading in his second term. Well, the president, David Ignatius, said just a couple weeks ago, we aren't going to touch the East Wing. And then two weeks later, the entire East Wing is destroyed. There are no plans. There is no consulting with historical organizations on trying to make sure the history of America is preserved. And that's not just for Democrats. That's not just for people who are saying, oh, look, he's owning the libs. You're tearing down the east wing of the White House to own the libs?

this isn't just libs that are being owned. I mean, Congress again, not a peep. Nobody's stepping in saying, hey, maybe we should look over this and see this. And so it does seem to be a particularly apt metaphor where the president one week says, we're not going to touch the east wing. The next week he destroys, you know, that half of the White House. That has been home to such history. No other president in our lifetime would have even thought about doing this, just on instinct. So abruptly, David. And so, yeah, Peggy's right. And Peggy's been around. She's worked in that East Wing. You've been around. I've been in and out of it for 30 years. There's incredible history. There was, and I'm sorry, there was incredible history there. And idiots online that are saying, oh, we're owning the lives.

Presidents have done this before. Yes. Presidents have done this before. Yes. Presidents have done a lot of things before, but they haven't done it on a whim like this. They've usually gone to Congress, as I explained last week, Harry Truman went to Congress. He wanted to expand the Oval Office. Congress said, no. There's always been consultation. There's always been back and forth, even if the two sides disagreed with each other. So the American people knew it was coming. That's why, I think 24% of Americans support this. Donald Trump doesn't care because right now, in this Republican-run Washington, he does exactly what he wants to do, and they're too cowardly to do anything about it. So, Joe, this is the presidency as wrecking

ball. I think that's one reason that destruction of the East Wing has really upset people in a way that even Trump's most outrageous other actions haven't. Peggy, Noonan is a very balanced, sensible person, but she was anguished by what she was seeing. And I think it comes down to the sense that we all have, we've been to the White House or certainly seen photographs of it. And we think of it as the people's house. It was built deliberately to be understated. It's not a palace like Victorian rulers have had. It's the people's house. And Donald Trump has turned it into his own personal property, or at least he behaves that way. You know, in the middle of the night, the bulldozers come in and begin tearing down this historic building.

If the Washington Post hadn't run a photograph taken from across the street in the Treasury building, we might not have known for 24 hours that it was even happening. It was stealthy in the middle of the night. And I think that makes people angry. And as you say, how could it be that members of the Congress that's supposed to be the co-guarantor of our freedoms and our orderly system of government haven't said a peep. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a ballroom us, some place to have more guests. You've been to events the White House were, that were held in tents and it could make a good argument that we, we, we do need some space, but not done this way, not done in secret, in contrary to the way it was described, uh, uh, Trump, Trump seems to have

learn nothing from this, but I do think lots of other people watching this have learned a lot, and it's going to continue to bother them. Yeah, and let's be clear, the vast majority of events that size that could be held in a ballroom of that magnitude would be for wealthy donors. That's who this would be, people buying access to the President of the United States. And Jeff, you know, we've spent time in that, the East Wing, a number of occasions. A lot of history is there, living and breathing American history, just blink of an eye taken down. And you've been writing about this for Reuters, noting that the bulldozer the president has taken here, the bulldozer in the ballroom. And it's how so much of this is Trump.

Yes, it's about recreating the Mar-a-Lago experience. We see that at the Rose Garden patio as well. But it's also someone who is really mindful of legacy more and more. And you argue this is about him making a permanent stamp on the White House itself. Well, it is permanent. I mean, that East Wing is never coming back. if the ballroom at some point perhaps is something that a future president decides he or she wants to change, that's certainly possible. But the East Wing, as David was, and Joe were just

talking about, that's gone forever. And he made that go away so quickly. And some of the historians that I spoke to in the piece that you just referenced talked about the White House and the people involved in this really taking advantage of loopholes. One of the loopholes is the fact that the president is using private donations to pay for this. That means he hasn't had to have the congressional oversight. And another is just suggesting or believing that the National Capital Planning Commission only oversees construction and not demolition. And as a result, they've demolished it without a review and without oversight. You know, the other thing that's so disturbing about this, Joe, is when you talk to people who aren't journalists, don't work in

politics, on both sides of the aisle, Americans just cannot understand how the president, has been able to do this. They are watching daily the destruction, or they were, of the East Wing, and no one is stopping him. And I think it does get back to, yes, Congress is feckless. Yes, the Supreme Court has been feckless. But we have heard presidents, both Republican and Democrat and others, defend for decades now the importance of institutions. And when it comes down to it, everyday Americans say, in my own life, I'm not seeing these institutions working for me. Prices are still up. I can't afford a house. I see billionaires getting access in both parties. And now those institutions have failed to stop Donald Trump from destroying the people's

house. And it is a metaphor, as Peggy Noonan and many others have said, because he slashes and burns and it's shoot first, you know, deal with the consequences if there will be any later. And this is how he's operated the entire presidency, through tariffs, through stopping U.S. citizens on the street with a masked police force. It's dare, he's daring someone to stop him, and no one has. And we watched the destruction of the people's house day in and day out. And nobody came to do a thing about it because our institutions cannot. keep up. Well, and he's driven out a lot of the reporters, a lot of the toughest reporters that would

be asking him questions about this. He's driven a lot of the toughest reporters out of the White House press pool. And it just, I mean, it continues. They've driven tough reporters out of the Pentagon. But it is. It's, it's, you know, the president's saying I can tear down the white House if I want to tear down to the White House. Nobody can stop me. I can see, be watching the World Series and get angry at an ad that has Ronald Reagan's voice on it and actually properly quotes Ronald Reagan. And I can increase tariffs to an entire country, one of our best trading partners on my own. He's saying that. I can call the National Guard or I can call the Marines out to Los Angeles illegally, and the Supreme Court's too cowardly to stop me.

I can say crime is high in Chicago. They need the National Guard to go out there, and the Supreme Court will be too cowardly to stop me. They'll keep kicking cases down that are clear-cut cases, and they'll kick them down to lower courts. Again, just distalled to give Donald Trump more time. And I think most shockingly, to me at least, not most shockingly, all of this is pretty shocking. But, I mean, they can even have ICE agents stop people on the street because of the color of their skin.

And the Supreme Court even refused to overturn that. And, you know, you had Brett Kavanaugh writing, well, if that happens to American citizens, they would be let go immediately. Now, that's not happening at all, Justice Kavanaugh, not happening at all. And we haven't even gotten to the point where the president can just tweet to his attorney general and say, these are the people I want you to arrest. And she has him arrested. So, yeah, the presidency has a wrecking ball, as David Ignatius said, yeah, Yeah, that's kind of what's happening right now, certainly has been happening over the past couple of months. Well, there have been some gains made on the international stage, but I will tell you, there are a lot of people who still aren't playing that game of, oh, he's owning the libs.

I love when the libs are angry because he tears down half the white. I mean, no, no, that's not why sane, rational people like Peggy Noonan, far from being a lib, are disturbed. And there were a lot of people who are saying, oh, Donald Trump, if he gets a second term, he's already been president for one term, what could go wrong? The Washington Post-David Ignatius and White House correspondent for Reuters, Jeff Mason. Thank you both very much. And coming up, MSNBC contributor Pablo Tori is here to help recap a big sports weekend for the World Series, NFL Week 8, and other major firing in college. football, the computer rankings will be out of the top five NFL power teams and also the three

best teams who play football in the state of New Jersey. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. Can you glosive runs, chunk runs, score from 30, 40 yards out. That's a different animal. Here's Cook. Good patient, Ryan. He busts it through. Right on kill. Off to the races.

James Cook. House call. Touchdown, Somersault, he's in. Eagles go jumbo on second and ten. Here is Berkeley. Left side, big hole. Oh, Berkeley! Oh, Berkeley!

Goodbye. Colts ball at the 20. Here's Jonathan Taylor on first down. Big hole. J.T. in the open field. Down the sideline. Staying in bounds. Still going.

Taylor. The distance. Nix. Down the field. In zone bound. Oh, what a catch. 10th play of the drive. Here they come.

Here he goes. Wattle. Look at him. Foy. You can kiss him. Goodbye. That's right. Alvin Camaric, get him the ball more.

Check it down and won. Oh, wow. It's picked off and taken it to the end zone. It was the right shoulder that they're looking at as they took a closer look at him, and that just adds to the intrigue here down the stretch hole. Boy, thought about it. Now tosses to the end zone, and he's got Taylor for the Jets touchdown. I mean a double pump from a double pump from a running back.

and then a perfectly placed ball at the end of the end zone. I mean, come on. That was Montana. Like, that was to the catch. That was the catch. Those were some of the biggest touchdowns from across the NFL yesterday, including the trick play that gave, yes, your New York Jets, their first win of the season.

Let's go now to Pittsburgh. The Steelers hosting Green Bay on Sunday night football. More proved to be the best game of the day. Steelers quarterback Aaron Rogers played well against his sport. team. But the backers, Jordan Love, played better. He passed for 360 yards, through three touchdowns, and brought Green Bay back from a nine-point deficit to beat the Steelers 35 to 25. Week 8 of the regular season concludes tonight in Kansas City, where Pablo Tori's chiefs will host the Washington commanders on Monday night football. With us now, the host of Pablo

Tori finds out on Meadow Arc Media, the disturbed. S&BC Contributor. I keep dreaming about Pablo Tori. It keeps running through my brain, how he treats computer rankings with hostility and disdain. May God forgive this love for dwelling in a cave and cursing football rankings that make him round and race. Pablo Torre, a man lost out of time. Pablo Tori, a man out of time, and that man is with us now. Pablo, thank you so much for being with us.

I was wondering what happened to the graphics and sound effects budget when the computer suddenly just buffered too long to be played anymore. And now we discover that, which is disturbing, personally. Talking about, what's disturbing? Do you have your little newspaper thing right down? My little newspaper, sorry. You're a lot of media every Monday morning for you in America. You're scared of light bulbs.

Oh, the cheats. I'm here to remind. Come on. America. You're like a dog that has dragged a bone home. Oh, my God. You don't like the TV guide and a power ranking scrolled on a series of very, very relevant listings about when you can watch television on a printed piece of paper. We'll get to years in a second.

Here they are. We'll get tears in a second. And first, let's go. LeMere, we had another late light, another late night at the Marquis. Once again, listening to Sinatra Live at the Sands with the Count Basie Orchestra. And this is what the computer showed us. The top five teams. There it is.

I was worried about this for a second. The Power rankings. Number five, the Patriots. I really out of nowhere. Four, Pablo and Kansas City Chiefs, three, the Green Bay Packers, who look good last night. to the Indianapolis Colts making true believers out of our little computer. And number one, the Detroit Lions. And then as an addition, we asked a computer after yesterday's Jets win to rank the top three teams

that play football in the state of New Jersey. This is what the computer came with. Number three, the New York Jets. Number two, the New York Giants. And number one, Don Bosco Prep, which is just, let's face it. That is a dominant. A fine Catholic institution. They're really good.

They're really good. And they just keep winning year in and year out. But let's talk about yesterday a couple of interesting things. One, I think there's no quarterback debate anymore in Carolina or in Atlanta. Those teams look absolutely pathetic without Bryce and also without pinnics. But two teams, man, I got to admit, have made true believers out of me. And I did not see it coming. the Colts and Broncos, man, they're looking good seven weeks into the season, eight weeks into the season.

Yeah, it does feel like Daniel Jones. I think of Richard Haas at this table or resident Giants fan typically when I think about how the giants are just sort of like giving their life force, almost like a Peter Thiel blood boy situation to the Colts. Yes. The Colts get all of the youth transfusion. They get Daniel Jones. They get a guy doing stuff like them. and the Giants just are getting injured. Cam's Cataboo, the folk hero for a day.

He's seemingly out for a long time. Jackson Dart, the SEC zone, he seems to be back on planet Earth. And the Colts are in my power rank. He's the second best team in the NFL. And meanwhile, yes, USA Today has headlines that, you know, have a sad injury cart right underneath them, which is kind of the tableau for the New Jersey, New York. dark area giants.

Yeah, and let's go and get it out of the way. Jonathan Vermeer, you can talk about your Patriots. I mean, Drake May, a guy that could not throw a tenant out in the combines, is just looking like a giant killer here. Well, actually, that's not saying much with this Giants team. But also, Coach V, man, like, who in the Titans organization thought, hey, now's a good time to fire one of the best coaches in football? I mean, the Titans' loss is the Patriots gang.

Sure. Frable's homecoming New England always felt inevitable that he would come in after Belichick stepped away. And yeah, Drake, man, we'll see if he could beat Don Bosco on the road. But right now, I'd argue he throws the best deep ball in the league. He, it's pat, he at more 20-yard plus passes than any other QB in the league. Look, we talked about it earlier, Pablo. The pats have an extraordinarily easy schedule. So, like, you know, two things can be true at once.

They have not really been, beyond that one win in Buffalo, they're playing a lot of cream puffs. That said, they're beating who the league puts in front of them. They actually play the Falcons next week, Joe. We should talk about that at some point later in the week. But yeah, but they're on the rise. And we also, let's talk, beat more about the Colts with who also have Jonathan Taylor. And then. Fantasy football star, superstar.

And just missing the top five here, the defending champion Eagles, who got revenge for losing the Giants two weeks ago. yesterday with the Scatado injury. They took care of business. Saquan Barclay, who's been quiet this year, a monster game, though he did leave early with an injury. Yeah, so every week I come in, and I try to find a new way to say

that parity means mediocrity, means that anything can happen. And so what do you do in the NFL? You treated like the stock market. Who do you go along with? Who are you sort of holding for the whole season? And so that's why, at the top of my list, if I can now officially just proclaim this,

guess what? Still the Chiefs. And then three, underneath those cult that we just praised for a while are the Eagles, even though, yes, the Eagles are a two-lossed team and the pack are a one-loss team with a tie at the end of their record. I like the Eagles. I like the Eagles for the fundamentals of our economy are strong,

as they say in Philadelphia. And one of the reasons for that strength is that guy, who is, again, torturing the Giants, having no longer been with the Giants. So Pablo, let's pick these two teams apart. the Chiefs and the Eagles. Let me tell you what I think the difference, for me at least, is in the two. You had the Eagles who started out like 11 and 1 a couple of years ago and then just completely collapse. One of the worst collapses I've ever seen in the NFL in the

final weeks of the season. Last year they had a great season. This was just a dominant team. I loved watching them play football. What a tough team. And I love the quarterback for a lot a lot of different reasons. But you don't know which, you don't know which Eagles team you have this year and they have looked uninspiring at best

throughout the weeks. I would say with the Chiefs, you know, past is prelude and the Chiefs two seasons ago were miserable the first half of this season. And they kicked into gear by the way, two years ago when

Rice came back, just like he has this year. And suddenly, you know, Mahomes had another target. And they've done that the last two years. They didn't set the world on fire the first half of this season, even last year. So I will say, even though I wouldn't place them number one, and obviously our computer doesn't place them number one, if you're just like playing smart money and everybody, like nobody is great, everybody is sort of clumped together, then you do look at the chiefs and see what they've done the past two years and go, listen, actually, you could make the argument, and it's more likely they get to the Super Bowl this year because parity, I mean, it's just, we live on a flat earth

this year in the NFL. Yeah, look, the NFL is two things. It is the last remaining big tent in American life where a fragmented society in which we can't walk into the same building with people we disagree with politically and otherwise and cheer for the same things. The NFL provides that. Also, we would watch a literal football sitting on a table. We would turn on our television to watch a literal oblong shape because that's how much we're addicted to

the game. And so when we talk about what do we need to have faith in one of these teams, yeah, look, the Eagles, man, it's okay to me if A.J. Brown is warring with Jalen Hertz. It's okay if there's a wide receiver, their number one right receiver who doesn't seem to get along with their quarterback.

I think this league is so mediocre this year with the product being not as good as we wanted to be, that we should just count on those teams, the Chiefs and the Eagles, Joe, as you just astutely portrayed. That is my stock picking strategy. And John Lemire, I think, has a thing that he wants to add that's not Drake May related, although I wouldn't blame him because Greg May looks like he is actually maybe a drink. I have said my Drake May piece for this week.

She's been great. Let's turn to something that the product has been excellent. Major League Baseball, a sport that has been surging the last couple of years with attendance, with TV viewership, the game is thriving. The pitch clock other rule changes really helped. Tonight, we have game three of a World Series. We got everything we could have wanted out of those first two. Blue Jays got game one, made it a series.

Dodgers, Yamamoto, threw as a complete game, a masterpiece in game two. He's the first pitcher, by the way, to throw back-to-back complete games in the playoffs since Kurt Schilling back in 2001, which shows you how the sport has changed. But now, Pob, let's talk about game three. I mean, look, this is still. Dodgers have reclaimed home field advantage.

The next three games are in L.A. Tonight, Tyler Glastow, who's been the shakiest of their starters, though he's still really good, pitches against Max Scherzer. It kind of feels like this is the game the Blue Jays need to get, although even if they, if the rumor has it, if they do, President Trump will slap another 10% tariff on Canada. Yeah, look, Scher, Max Scherzer, to me, somebody who was in the ALCS and was surprisingly, surprisingly good. He struggled for the season, over five ERA, was good in the ALCS. Now, to make the whole compare and contrasting with football, right,

Major League Baseball is postseason is a roulette wheel. It really is. But the one way you stop a roulette wheel is with arms. And the Dodgers have that. If you look at what they're doing this postseason, it is an all-time low ERA for a rotation. It's unbelievable. And so this opportunity, game thing for the reason that you said,

is the one where if the Dodgers are going to let up and the Blue Jays can take one in Los Angeles, now we have a series because everybody, that I know, including the people in Las Vegas, are saying, okay, game one is one thing, but again, you buy and you hold on the team that has been favored to win this thing for literal years now. But Otani and that rotation, Joe, what? You have a different view on this thing? No, no, no. I'm really hope. I mean, how incredible it would be to get the seven games in this series. I mean, you're playing with the Dodgers, one of the best teams ever put together.

If we can get six games out of it, you know, I'd be happy. But let's hope tonight would be the night for the Blue Jays to win. Finally, let's talk college football, and it's a popery. It's Pablo's popery. I'm going to just list a couple of things, and let's talk about it. Number one, Brian Kelly fired for good reason at LSU. Number two, Alabama plays horribly, just terribly, and somehow manages to win. And finally, we have to say for Willie, anchor down, baby, anchor down.

Vanderbilt top 10 beats another ranked team. That's pretty awesome. Yeah, we're living in a bit of upside down world in the SEC right now. Vandy, as you alluded to, Willie Guys, Vanderbilt University, doing great, feeling great. But LSU, where you led, that's what we should just spend a moment to pour some out for. Because Brian, it's one thing, right? Brian Kelly gets hired, affects one of the worst performative Southern accents in political history, I would say. Family, family is what he says at the presser.

And everyone's like, who is that guy? That's not how he sounds, and he didn't. But he's yelling on the sideline while losing in this game, he's yelling at his assistance, he's yelling at his players. And it's rare to see a firing this quickly after a public sort of spat on a sideline. Typically, they'll say, he to the game. this is football, everybody yells, emotions run high. It's even rare, Joe, to see a buyout of a contract or a firing in which he's owed like 50-something million dollars left.

That's a guaranteed 10-year dealy sign. And so it's not only just the embarrassment of that guy's embarrassing, it's the embarrassment of, and we've got to pay him to go away. And that is a hard thing to swallow unless you're truly sick of somebody. and the Brian Kelly experience, it seems to me, tends to leave people truly sick of the guy. And so LSU has another open seat. And you're right, a couple, you know, last year after press conference, he suddenly became, you know, I don't know if he was Cajun, if he was Southern, I don't know exactly what he was doing at that press conference.

He's still trying to do it a little bit. No, it just, it was not a tight fit at all. That's one thing about Saban. When Saban got to press conferences and he was angry, he didn't have to affect any accent. I do have to say, I have to ring it up. DeRour, man. I mean, after a terrible first week, after Alabama looking lost, I was ready for him to go. He just, you know, he had no theory of the case.

The defense looked horrible. The offense looked horrible. Ty looked scared. It is remarkable what they've done weekend and week out. And again, they played an absolutely dismal game, an absolutely dismal game on Saturday. And, you know, great teams figure out how to win. I don't know if there's a great team yet or not, but if they do go deep into the playoffs this year, this would be a game that they remember and point to is a game they didn't deserve to win,

but a champion figures out how to win these type of games. Oh, look, Joe, the number one gift that you gave your alma mater is the gift. of lowered expectations. If you kill a guy so much as you did, as our friend Paul Feinbaum did, then maybe a seven-point win over South Carolina doesn't seem like an embarrassment, but something like a ray of light. And for a top four team in Alabama, who is going to be absolutely in that postseason in this expanded postseason where a three-lost team can get in,

they look, again, what's the three-line in all these conversations in the NFL and in college football. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. Right? So there's, there's a lot of opportunity here for teams that once we're characterized as good as we want them to be, to be a lot better than the majority of teams out there. And I think that's the story of Alabama, that's story of the NFL, and you're totally alive and in it. Not a lot of great teams in the SEC right now. I mean, look at Texas. My God, that just didn't turn out. the way people expect it. No. But you always do, Pablo, always a Luddite, but always you fill on warnings with with laughter and hilarity. We appreciate it. The host of Pablo Tori finds out

on metal art. Yeah. I don't know if I granted my NIL rights for that video, just at the top. So there might be a letter from an attorney just coming your way, just for the record. That's great. And let me state for the record. We don't care. MSNBC contributor, Pablo Tori, thank you so much. We're going to sneak in a quick break.