Morning Joe - Rep. Ro Khanna discusses his new bill to regulate AI

Episode Date: September 24, 2026

September 24, 2026 – 7am:Rep. Ro Khanna discusses his new bill to regulate AIJudge rules Trump must lift ban on MS NOW, CNN, and POLITICOThird detainee dies in ICE detention in LouisianaGOP candidate says his relative is being wrongfully deportedMan shot by ICE in Austin being held at detention center, needs surgeryTrump welcomes China’s XI with planeside ceremony To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Research shows that 25% of the furries are gender confused. And it's more evidence of our society going to heck in a handbasket when we have stuff like this going on. What's more concerning is that this is mentally and unwell in a furry community that touts the fact that many, listen to this, that many airline pilots, flight attendants and air traffic, controllers are part of the furry community. Lord help us. Lord help us indeed. That wasn't real. That wasn't.

No. proved to me that wasn't AI. This is why I'm, this is why I'm scared of AI. This is why I'm scared of AI because you're, you're going to get public figures made to look like total idiots because somebody obviously gin that up. He would not really with a threat to humanity

from frontier AI systems with working class Americans in the state of Alabama paying almost $7 a gallon for diesel with people not being able to afford their growth. He would not talk about furries on the floor would.

And if he would, like, you know, I'm sure many of the state It would be like our own Babe in the Wood, Mika, who didn't even know. I'm not alone. Remember the furry gas leak we had to report on? We had no idea what furries were gas. I still don't get it. I'm not going to be honest.

I'm just understanding the costumes and what happens in them. I don't get it. But I'm learning, I guess. It's a very specific community. It's a sub-community that, And so Tommy Tupperville really thought, hey, I got elected to the United States Senate. And with a China summit with nuclear proliferation, with the possibility of AI ending humankind, with people in Alabama not being able to afford their groceries, not being able to afford diesel at almost $7 a gallon,

not, you know, a war raging on that is causing unrest to crosswind. He's going to talk about furries. Like, that had to be AI generated because even Tommy Tuberville's not that stupid. Now, he's not that stupid. I mean, I would hope he wouldn't be that stupid. That has me a AI generated. That was on the sacred floor of the United States Senate. That was his Mr. Smith goes to Washington moment.

I'm going to make my big speech and have my big moment. What was the picture? Was that a costume? Is that a furry costume? Coach. It was like an emoji, like a pregnant emoji. Joe, there's, you know, we've talked about this. There's, well, there's a lot of projection maybe.

What is that? The guys who talk so much about how alpha they are and how they've got high tea and they think about testosterone and a lot seem to also be real fixated on woke stuff like this. He was talking about trans athletes playing sports. As the Charlie Baker, the head of the NCAA said in congressional testimony, He said there are more than 500,000 athletes in NCAA college sports. He was asked how many are trans? He said less than 10.

In other words, I'm telling you, man. This is not an issue that's in the top 1,000 of important issues in the country. No, but really, I just have to ask, why are they so obsessed with trans? It's like all they talked, you like, you almost get this sense when you go into their Senate offices, is these Republicans have, have like the Rocky Horror picture show going on and sweet transvestite playing in the background because they are obsessed.

They're so few trans athletes, but it's like all they think about. Honey, I'm sorry, this is a great meal, but I'm just thinking about trans. No, it's like, what's wrong with them? Like, there is such a raging, a raging, a raging, of beta.

Like just just a reservoir of beta malness underneath this Republican Party. I don't get it. I really don't. Being beta is the foundation of the movement. You have to bow to the emperor. You have to do and go along with whatever he says. I guess. But this is a strange obsession. I'm not going to

raise any speculation. But I feel just maybe feel bad for the mascot at Auburn. Yeah, I'm scared. from Rees. Okay, Jennifer Lemire. I don't know. I don't know. They're still with us.

Do we have to look at the tiger mascot now with suspicion? I don't. I don't. I don't like mascots. What is he suggesting? It makes me sad. I have a lot of good friends at Auburn, Willie. Do we now have to ask?

What's going on there? What, like, why is he so freaked down about this? What was that? What was that stat again? they're like how many student athletes in college? More than half a million. And when asked during Senate testimony, Charlie Baker, the head of the NCAA,

said how many trans athletes? He said less than 10 out of more than half a million. Okay. So why are the Republicans? Maybe Adrian knows this. Adrian, do you have any Republican friends who are as obsessed with trans as much as like Republican senators are obsessed with trans? Like, why are they so obsessed?

I thought furries when we were talking about it during the I got that they were actually animals, and I got sort of excited about talking about pets, but now I realize I'm learning. A little bit different. In costumes. It's a little bit of a different thing. Oh, my God. I think, look at the tail as old as time, Joe.

My head is going to explode. We can almost predict that around this time every election cycle that Republicans, because they haven't done anything for the American people, are going to start diverting, trying to divert our attention to the transgender issue, which is Willie pointed out, especially in sports, is pretty much a non-issue. So I'm not surprised, but it's just bizarre and strange. Okay. I'm going to move on.

It is bizarre and strange. Do you have breaking news to cover this morning. This beta obsession with trans, I just stand furries. I don't get it. Don't say it. Okay. So let's get to the breaking news overnight. Federal judge has ordered the White House to immediately lift its ban on three media outlets, including MS Now.

Overnight, U.S. District Judge Timothy Kelly issued a 14-19. day temporary restraining order, restoring access to MS now, CNN, and Politico, while ruling Trump's ban on the outlets is likely unconstitutional. The judge also rejected the Trump administration's argument. The ban was motivated by national security concerns. Lawyers for all three outlets argued the ban was unconstitutional, retaliatory, and inhibits lawful news gathering. Earlier this week, Trump posted on social media. He expected the, quote, totally disloyal judge Kelly, who Trump nominated during his first term, to rule against him, adding, quote, as usual, we'll go for appeal. Let's bring in MSNal legal affairs reporter Fallon Gallagher. You've been covering this. What happens next?

And what are we watching for today, Fallon? Yeah, full first, Miko, we haven't heard anything from the White House or the Department of Justice yet, but we have reached out to them for comment and reaction to this ruling. but we know what they might do because earlier this week, before this hearing even happened, the president signaled that he would probably lose and that he would appeal. Now, this is a temporary restraining order, which is usually not appealable, so it's not immediately clear how he's going to do that. But for now, based on this ruling that we got overnight around 1 o'clock in the morning, this access has been restored for at least 14 days.

Now, the judge said that he's going to move quickly. He's setting an expedited briefing schedule to consider a preliminary injunction, which is a longer term ban, and he's going to hear arguments from both sides, not just the arguments that he's already gotten at this temporary restraining order phase. But at this point, this is blocked purely on due process grounds, which you'll remember happened back in 2018 when this same judge oversaw Jim Acosta's case. That was wrapped up at the TRO phase. I don't see this going away so quickly, but that means that he still has those First Amendment claims that lawyers for MS now, CNN and Politico were making that this was viewpoint discrimination and retaliation. And so this case is not over, but for now,

this is certainly a victory for those three media organizations. Fallon, good morning. So do we expect reporters from our network, CNN and Politico, to be back on the White House beat this morning with hard passes in hand? First question there. And then what do you expect the legal team, the Trump legal team, to do in these 14 days? Because this still is something that they're interested in pursuing. Yeah, Willie, I mean, in theory, our reporters for all three networks should be able to access the White House grounds. This order from the judge is really straightforward. There's no gray area here, and I don't really see a way that they can circumvent it without violating this judge's order. And it's not clear that they're going to do that.

Again, we haven't heard anything from the White House yet. But in theory, our reporter's passes should be activated today. And if they've been confiscated, like MS. Now is a Kayla Gardner's pass. it should be restored to her to comply with this court's order. Now, as far as where the Trump administration might go with this, they've signaled that they are going to appeal. It's not immediately clear if they'll do that, because again, this is just a temporary restraining order.

Usually you can't start appealing until you get to the preliminary injunction phase of things. But they are at least going to start making more arguments. And that will happen through the briefs for this preliminary injunction. They'll continue to oppose it. My guess is that they'll continue to double down on this due process. argument yesterday during the hearing. They were making this argument that they did give MSN, CNN, and Politico do process. And they were pointing to these letters that were sent to the news organizations very late on Tuesday night, which was three days after those reporters were not

allowed to access the White House on Saturday morning. The other thing that was interesting about those letters is that it wasn't on White House letterhead. It wasn't signed by anybody. and it was sent to not the immediate stakeholders who would have necessarily made sense, and also had articles from people who were not White House hard pass holders. So anyway, that is what they are trying to use as their due process. I'm sure that they're going to have to find some First Amendment arguments to introduce for why this is not retaliation or viewpoint discrimination under the First Amendment and why they believe that the president's ban of these three news organizations is lawful.

And the Washington Post has some reporting this morning that the Politico article, that angered the white Trump so much, was quoting because he was upset that it was quoting White House officials around background. It was indeed set up in a call by the White House. It was, and everyone had those quotes. So it's not quite clear why that in particular set him off.

I was just looking at true social here, found the president himself is awake, but hasn't yet weighed in on this. You just remind people, though, who are watching why this matters. This is just about some Beltway access issue. This is about the freedom of the press and First Amendment rights.

And also remind viewers, This is just part of an unprecedented assault on those press freedoms by this White House, which includes lawsuits and even law enforcement rates. Yeah, we've seen the ripple effect of this this week with the White House pool deciding to not cover the president. We all saw that video earlier this week where he's doing the Marine One, the launch pad, the landing pad unveiling. And there's no there's no audio because the press pool has decided to not cover him as a direct result of this ban. And this is an argument that lawyers for MS now, CNN, and Politico have been making in court that they are, the journalists at these networks are irreparably harmed because they cannot do their jobs. They cannot effectively cover this White House, report on the president if they are not at the White House grounds where conversations with senior administration officials happen.

They get access to the president. Any events that are happening around, around she's visit this week. Like, you cannot effectively cover the White House if you cannot physically be there. And the American people are paying the price because they're not seeing any coverage of the president in the same way that they normally do this week because of this ban. All right, MS now legal affairs reporter Fallon Gallagher, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. We'll be watching. To this now, a 36-year-old Costa Rican man has died in federal immigration custody in Louisiana, becoming the the third detainee to die at the facility in less than six months.

Carlos Hosei Marchena was found unresponsive last Friday at Wynn Correctional Center. ISSA staff performed life-saving measures before he was taken to hospital where he was pronounced dead. Mershanna's family and another detainee say he repeatedly complained about missing insulin shots, meals and water while managing type 1 diabetes. His condition reportedly worsened after arriving at the Correctional Center. A recent federal inspection found the facility had fallen short of standards, including in medical care. And according to the Associated Press, Marciaena is at least the 58th I-C-Tainee to die since January of 2025. Marchena's official cause of death is still pending. Meanwhile, during a campaign event this week, former Maine governor and Trump ally, Paul LePage, who was running for a congressional seat, announced his family as being impacted by the president's hardline immigration policies.

I do believe, frankly, that the United States of America, Congress, and the United States Senate have to get together and start talking and fix the law. It needs to be fixed. And not everybody that's here is illegal. I have a father, my son's wife's dad is here legally, but he's being deported because he came from a country that's not the liking to certain people in Washington. That's not right. He has a work permit. He should be allowed to stay.

Sit with that for a moment. This comes years after LaPage made extensive disparaging statements about asylum seekers while in office and enacted policies that cut back refugee resellment and state benefits for migrants. He touted that record in a campaign ad this week, but also emphasized he supports, quote, legal but not illegal immigration. Joe, I have so many words for this, but I'll defer to you. it away. Jay, you can boil all of that down to one word. That is hypocrisy. You have so many people saying, I voted for him three times. Three times. How could he deport my relative or how could he do? Well, that's what they supported as long as it was as long as it was other people that they didn't know. Right. It would never happen to them.

being beaten up in the streets of America. As long as it was other people being shot in what looked like execution-style murders in the streets of America, as long as it was other people who had diabetes, who had insulin withheld from them, and they died slow, torturous deaths. Which just leads me to the question, Mike, how stupid are these people? And I ask this because they think that because of an election, one election in 2024, that the rules, that justice is forever abrogated, it is not. The long arm of the law will reach out. And for those guards that sat there torturing inmates, for those guards that let us,

inmate slowly die. For those ICE officers who are masked, to quote scripture, their names will be shouted from the highest mountaintops. Their masks will be taken off. And when they are found guilty of violating people's constitutional rights, they will ultimately face the long arm of the law. So why ask the question again? These people who are so drunk with a little bit of power that they have been given by an administration that is running the most reckless policy we've ever seen in our lifetime on immigration.

Like, they should be warned, and I have warned ICE agents on this show repeatedly, be careful, follow the law, follow the Constitution. That is not what Donald Trump and Stephen Miller says it is. The law is law that is passed through Congress and signed by a president. The president can shout, I am the code. He is not the code. He is not the law. We still are a nation of laws and not men, Mike. And these people will be held accountable in a court of law in time.

Well, we say in time. But right now, I mean, we are in months and months and months of living with this national disgrace. We have ICE officers showing up. That's why I'm saying, Mike. That's why I'm saying, yes, we're living this way now, but you and I have lived long enough to know. Administrations come and go. They leave the White House. And when they leave the White House, and when the tide goes out, their lawbreaking, their violence, their abuse of prisoners in and out of detention facilities, they will be left there legally naked and they will be exposed and there will be no one in the White House to protect them from the crimes they have committed.

That's all true, Joe, but it's too late for a lot of people. People who are being apprehended right now who are here legally, who have the right to be here legally and they're putting into facilities in state after state that are a national disgrace. No showers, no food, no medical care. No visits, nothing. Americans, they're Americans. You're here in America. You're an American. I mean, the old Reagan indication that you're born, if you're here, you're an American. You're going to be an American. You're going to be guaranteed the rights of American citizens, even though you're waiting to be a citizen. But we started with Paul LePage up in Maine. He has always been a divisive

figure in Maine. And he continues to be a divisive figure. But he's representative of a whole lot of people in this country, public people who sit and watch the ICE officers hang around school buses, school bus stops, waiting for kids to get off the school bus or go on the school bus so they can grab their parents and the kids go home and they think they're orphans. This is happening every single day in this country. And so the next administration will take care of a lot of things. There's no doubt about that, but it's going to be too late for a lot of people who have had their lives destroyed and disrupted. And Mike, you're so right on so many fronts. And Willie, Mike basically paraphrased what conservative icon Justice Scalia said. When asked, what, who does the

United States Constitution apply to? Does it apply to those foreigners? And Scalia said, it applies to Americans in America. It applies to Americans across the globe. And the United States Constitution applies to anybody that is in the United States. Now, that's something that maybe Stephen Miller doesn't like. Maybe that's something Donald Trump doesn't like. Maybe that's something that millions and millions of MAGA people don't like. Sorry, you don't like it. But F your feelings, the Constitution is the Constitution. And if you have a problem with that, take it up. with Justice Scalia and our founding fathers. Well said, Joe.

And it also should be said that if you represent a state or a congressional district or a country, you should represent all those people and not just the people you know. In other words, when something happens that you find morally reprehensible, it's your job to say something about it, not to ignore it. And then when it happens in your family, all of a sudden you're outraged by it, as we see here with Paul Lepage up in Maine. Let's bring to the conversation the anchor of Connect with Jacob Soberoff. here on MS now, Jacob Soberoff himself.

Jacob, great to see you. This has been your beat for a long time. You've written books. You've made documentaries about this immigration policy of the Trump White House, the first term, and now the second. Just your reaction and add into this conversation. Any thoughts you may have here? Let me just say I'm so glad that we are having this conversation.

I saw what Mika said yesterday about the forgotten tragedies of just this administration so far. And all of this reminds me of the words of Dana Sabraa, the judge, the federal judge here in California who stopped the family separation policy of the first Trump term in which this administration deliberately took as an act of cruelty, 5,500 children away from their parents to harm them, to scare other people from coming to this country. Dana Sabra said we were living in one of the most shameful chapters in the history of our country. And that was in 2018 when 5,500 parents and children have been taken from each other. Now that number is orders of magnitude larger.

This is family separation, supersized what we are living through. It's what Stephen Miller always wanted to do. And it is playing out, and it has played out, and it will continue to play out on the streets of this country every single day. I think of just some of the stories that I brought to this broadcast in the first part of this second Trump term, Nouri Santai Ramos, the honor student from the Miguel Contreras learning complex, that was sent to Guatemala, a place she had barely,

lived with her mother after going to check in for her immigration appointment, only to have her mother die in Guatemala because ICE withheld, she says, her medication. Or Narciso Barranco, the landscaper who got the holy hell beaten out of him in front of an IHop while he was cutting grass. He has three sons who served or are serving in the Marine Corps. Annie Lucia Lopez Belosa, the Batson College student, who was sent to Honduras when she was going to San Antonio to visit her parents for freaking Thanksgiving. to go back and see her parents. She can't get back into this country right now.

These are, for all intents and purposes, as American as any one of us having this conversation today. And as Joe said, if it was up to Stephen Miller, this is only going to get bigger and worse. And now he's looking at, you know, listen to what Governor LePage said, lawful permanent residents, people who have a right to stay in this country.

It's a conversation. I just want to show you quickly, Miga, a clip from my show this past weekend with Kelly Lytle Hernandez, is the esteem MacArthur fellow from here in Los Angeles, who has been looking into how this public charge rule now is going to affect potentially hundreds of thousands, if not more people, who are living in this country. Let's just watch real quick. This is something that Stephen Miller, you know, according to reporting, has been obsessed with for a long time. What do you make of

that? He's obsessed with so many different ways of getting immigrants out of this country, but this is when he's tried for a long time. Yeah, there's a lot of flexibility around LPC. And so it doesn't surprise me that someone like Stephen Miller would like to offshore the enforcement of immigration laws and restrictions and give it to U.S. consular offices abroad where those denials can happen, really out of sight of many Americans. So this doesn't surprise me. So, Jacob, you're following a horrifying report that claims ICE has lost count of the number of detainees that have had miscarriages. What are you learning there? Yeah, it is an endless stream of misery and awful stories that unfortunately continue to play out. And one of them, this was reporting from The Guardian that we also cover on my show this past weekend,

that there has been a, not only has there been a record number of miscarriages in ICE custody, but they have essentially or effectively stopped keeping that data within ICE custody. And I would encourage everybody to go read this Guardian report because it's just, Again, it's just one of so many different stories that gets to the heart of what this administration continues to do every single day. Not now out in the public with Greg Bovino in his military-style costume tossing tear gas canisters as he runs around the country, but with Tom Homan in a suit or Mark Wayne Mullen, you know, looking the part, saying that this isn't as bad as it was before. But the reality is both behind closed doors in these detention centers and out on the streets. It's as bad as it has been.

And getting worse. MS now is Jacob Soberoff. Thank you. We'll be watching Connect with Jacob Soberoff weekends right here on MSNBC. Jacob, thank you so much for your reporting. And Adrienne, I want to talk about the politics of this, especially since Shauna earlier was talking about certain midterm elections that she's watching and debates that are on the schedule. And when you look at the fact that ICE arrests are up and it's not these mass invasions of towns, but it's happening in specific places. places, but in growing numbers, I saw one number of 51,000 arrests in August alone, and the number's growing, marching into courthouses in some areas where it's against the law now, just marching in defiantly, and getting people as they are heading to their hearing, people who are showing up for their hearing to try and get closer to that dream of being a citizen, a hearing that cost them money, that cost them time, and just getting nabbed from their dream inside. a courthouse. Finding jurisdictions where they can work with local cops that are perhaps open to this to get data and support and more information to nab people. We have children representing

themselves in court in immigration, little like toddlers. This is, you can't make it up, but it's happening. Obviously, countless unlawful detentions, misery and inhumane conditions in these detention centers, people getting beat up in the street, people getting killed in the street. My question to you is how do these Republicans show up for these debates and defend that? And will they? I think it's hard. I mean, look, Mika, when you look back at 2024, Trump came back into the White House with immigration at an advantage for him because people wanted to see the border secured.

Maybe they thought President Biden wasn't doing an effective job at that. But this is not what they signed up for. And this is not what the people who are going through this signed up for. You're seeing a lot of independent voters, a lot of Republican voters who are looking at this and saying, this is inhumane, this is not right, which is why you've also seen a lot of people who voted for Trump in bigger numbers showing up for some of these no-kings rallies. They are over this. They want to use their voice to say, enough is enough.

They don't see this as being a productive way to handle an issue. And it's something that's one of the reasons why Trump is so underwater on immigration. it's going to be that much harder for the people of Republicans who are on the ballot this fall to try to defend this. How in the world do you defend it? Adrian Elrod, thank you. And ahead. We're going to speak with the attorney for the man who was shot in the back by ice, by an ice officer in Austin, Texas. Also ahead. The top Democrat on the House Select Committee on China. Congressman Rokana joins us ahead of President Trump's summit with Chinese leader Xi Jinping. That's straight ahead on more. Morning, Joe. Welcome back, just to let you know we have at the table here, Congressman Rokana of California. We're going to be talking to him about AI and also the big summit, the China summit, happening today in Washington. But first, a federal judge has ordered that the man shot by an ICE officer in Austin, Texas, appear at a September 30th court hearing.

The order essentially prevents immigration officials from deporting Wilburne-Osses-Perez before then. The 28-year-old from Venezuela was shot by an ICE officer on Sunday while making deliveries for DoorDash. He still has a bullet lodged in his back and said he's in a lot of pain. He's currently being held at an immigration detention center in South Texas. Joining us now, Attorney Kate Lincoln-Goldfinch, she's representing Wilbur Garcia-Perez. So where does it stand in terms of, first of all, the potential that he will be deported? after his hearing. And what answers do we have about why he was shot in the back and treated the way he was treated after he was shot in the back? There are more questions than there are answers about

why he was shot. DHS still has not turned over the body cam footage. And there's questions about whether the officer was even wearing a body cam. There is no dash cam footage. I was at the hospital with Wilbur's wife on Sunday where he was taken after being shot and disjured. charged after only several hours. His wife and I were kicked off hospital grounds and told that he was not in the hospital, which was untrue. He has reported that the doctors spoke with ICE agents who pressured them to release him with the bullets still lodged in his back. He was sent to a processing center without a bed, without pain medications, and we're now going on the fifth day where he has still not had surgery. Congressman Casar visited him in person.

yesterday and reported that he still has a huge bullet hole on his back that is bleeding. He's covered in bruises, which I have seen on video calls with him. And he called me last night to say that he had seen a bone specialist finally yesterday. And he was told that if he doesn't get the bullet out, he's going to have mobility issues with his arm for the rest of his life. Okay. We have a couple of responses from the Department of Homeland Security on this incident on Sunday. a statement on social media that re-quotes, Homeland Security Investigations with the assistance of the Federal Bureau of Investigation is leading the investigation into the officer-involved shooting of an illegal alien from Venezuela,

who illegally entered our country under the Biden administration and had a final order of removal during a law enforcement operation today in Austin, Texas. And then Tuesday, DHS released a statement saying, Garcia-Perez is receiving, quote, medical care around the clock, including pain medication. It goes on to state that ICE officers do not control the medical treatment for the bullet lodged in his back. Quote, ICE does not and would not advise nor be the authority on a medical procedure for an illegal alien at a hospital. Where do you begin in your response to those claims? So HSI conducting the investigation is the Fox guarding the henhouse.

We need to have an independent investigation. Also, Wilbur entered on a program called CBP1. He applied and was invited to come into this country legally. And the reports or the statements that DHS making about adequate medical care are just blatantly false. It's just objectively untrue. Someone who has a bullet lodged in their body should not be discharged from the hospital after several hours, meant to sleep without a bed, transferred over 100 miles, held in isolation

in a detention center without contact with their family and retaliation for speaking to the press. He has reported that he has been shackled when he has been brought to the hospital and handled roughly. He's in immense pain. We're used to DHS putting out false statements when there are incidents like these. And I call upon the agency and I think all of us should to turn over the footage from start to finish and stop lying to the American public. Kate, this shooting took place on the streets of Austin, Texas. Why hasn't the Austin Police Department done something to take over the case? A shooting that belongs to them in their jurisdiction.

City leadership is responding that Travis County District Attorney is calling for an investigation and APD has been involved. So city leadership is being involved and we'll see where the investigation goes. And next week, we have our hearing in Wilbur's case, and we hope that the judge will order him release. But in the meantime, we're calling on DHS to give him the immediate surgery that he needs because this is urgent and will essentially impact his entire life. And in fact, the body camera footage we have seen comes from a Houston police officer responding. That's how we know about it. So, Kate, let me just ask you that we've seen some of the body cam footage.

We've seen eyewitness footage. We've heard accounts from several people about what happened. it looks from what we could piece together and we'll wait to get the full story that he effectively saw a car coming, thought it was swerving at him, basically got rammed and kind of run off to the side of the road and then get shot in the back. Did he have any understanding of who these people were or what was going on? You know, a lot of that is really unclear right now. There's more questions than answers. And as you mentioned, we have a lot of different bystander footage to piece together. But at the end of the day, it should not be our responsibility to investigate this. TheHS should be turning

over this footage to the American public so we can find out what happened. But we do know for sure. He was shot in the back while he was still in his car. He was pulled out of his car and handcuffed. And there's many videos and pictures of the bullet wound in his back and blood running down his back while his hands were handcuffed behind him. All right. Immigration attorney for Wilburgo, says Perez. Kate Lincoln, Goldfinch, thank you very much. We'll be following this. Please come back and keep us posted on what is happening with this case.

Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Rokana of California. He's a member of both the House Armed Services and Oversight Committees and Ranking Member of the House Select Committee on China. We have a lot to talk to you about AI and the summit today. Would you like to say anything about the discussion we just had? Just horrific. I mean, all these words that you released from Department of Homeland Security.

But the basic fact is there's a man with a bullet lodged in his back. Why isn't he getting medical care? I don't care what you think about immigration. This is just a human issue. And this should not be happening in the United States of America. It's absurd. All right. Well, we'll move on now to why you're here and another human issue.

You're introducing a bill today, the Human Control Over AI Act. What does it do and does it have chances? Well, look, I don't know if you saw Sam Oatman's testimony in front of the United Nations, but it was pretty rich. You've got Sam Oatman saying, Sam Oatman's doing some really risky things. And Sam Oatman can't stop Sam Oatman from doing these things. I mean, give me a break. You have Open AI, Ananthropic, doing dangerous things that they themselves say could have a 10% chance of doom civilization.

And even if it doesn't do them civilization, think of it this way. Imagine if someone hired a thousand North Koreans to go say, okay, you're going to hack something. And then they hacked something. And then the companies turn around and say, well, sorry. I mean, no, there has to be liability. So the bill would do three things. First, it would direct enforcement of the law. Like you can't just build models that are going to hack into other things or create theft.

there is liability and criminal liability. Second, create an agency like the FDA, which regulates these models, just like we did for drugs or electricity or nuclear. And third, make sure you're banning AI that can improve itself, which would really risk losing control. So Congressman President Trump has been clear he does not think any sort of guidelines are needed. In fact, just a moment ago on True Social, he previews his summit today with President Xi. He, of course, has taken to call AISI, superintelligence. He says super intelligence will be a big topic of discussion, but I want to leave it exactly where it is. And he says the only guardrail needed is the Department of Justice. So two questions to you. First of all, I just get your reaction to that. But secondly, what can you

do legislatively if the president isn't going to be on board? Well, first of all, he doesn't have the Department of Justice as a guardrail because there have been no investigations. There have been no prosecutions. How can you create a model that is posing a risk of hacking into other companies or other things and not have any liability? The second thing is that China actually does care about a loss of control. Actually, they care about a loss of control more than even we do because they're not a free society. And so it's just not true that they don't recognize these risks. And he should at least say we don't want AI that's going to self-improve and lose control. That's not even a political issue.

But look, the reality is without the president, there's not that much you can actually do. I mean, we can try to legislate. We can try to force his hand. Yesterday, I had a hearing with General Shanahan and Jeffrey Hinton, who was the got-for-the-A-I, almost as an appeal to Trump and Xi Jinping. That was not partisan. I wasn't trying to score points. I said, just agree to some basic things. They said, why don't you agree to at least having a technical working group between the countries?

Why don't you agree to having a red line on superintelligence? Humanity is at risk. And in the past, the United States has led. And Willie, the president's main hesitation for doing anything to sort of restrict AI. As he knows, AI is propping up the stock market. And it's such a huge part of the nation's economy right now. He doesn't want to touch it. And massive investments by people very close to him or perhaps he himself.

Staying on the topic of this summit with China, yesterday evening, President Trump took the rare step of meeting President Xi at Andrew's Air Force Base, literally rolling out the red carpet. For him, they're going to have their summit meeting today. This says the AI question is on the table, but also we know that China is aiding Iran in the war in Iran, giving surveillance and targeting information and all that kind of stuff using its satellites. So what should be versus what is the posture of President Trump right now to President Xi? Well, first of all, he hasn't done much to balance our trade deficit what he ran on. He should insist that China not hold the world hostage when it comes to rare earths and critical minerals. Right now, he only got a one-year agreement from Xi. He should get an agreement more broadly.

Second, he should get an agreement that our farmers are able to sell soybeans there. He has not gotten the same metrics that Biden had in terms of actually opening up markets. They're still dumping goods into the United States. And then on Iran, in my view, that we should have never gotten into this war in the first place. But the reality is we're probably going to need China's help to get out of it. They need to be part of a solution that pressures Iran to keep the straight-off Hormuz open. And he needs to work to get that commitment from Xi Jinping. So I'm going to guess that given where you're from that you represent a few, more than a few of these billionaire, millionaire, tech bros.

There are a lot of them in my district. Okay, that's what I figure. So you must have some familiarity with what's been going on with AI over the months and years. Were you at all surprised a few weeks ago when one of them publicly says he's leaving what company he was working for? I don't know which one it was. because they are on the verge of ending civilization, perhaps within the year. I was not. You know, if you come to my-

You were not. No, because they come to my district. I know it's hard for people to imagine this, but you go to a local coffee shop, and they're sitting around like this, and they're like, what's your P-Doom number? And you said, what's P-Doom? And it's the probability of doom. And you say, okay, it's 6%. And someone will say, no, I think it's 15%.

Literally you came there. We go to a coffee shop. you'll see this conversation. It's been going on for a year. And most Americans, where I grew up, Bucks County, Pennsylvania will think this is crazy. This is a bunch of sci-fi. But the reality is it's an actual danger. And the danger is not just that they end civilization. The real danger is these models get out of control and electricity goes out in New York City. Or your bank account, suddenly, city bank, none of your accounts have the right numbers in them. You don't know what your net worth is.

Or someone uses this model to start the next pandemic or chemical weapons. They, by their own emissions, are saying this is the most transformative technology. We would never allow this with nuclear technology or electricity. And sometimes they use this language to say, oh, it's too complex. But America has regulated complex things. Put an independent agency, get the smartest people from MIT, Carnegie Mellon, Stanford, other places who don't have. have a financial interest. So do what the United States, what America did after the first

nuclear, after the first atomic bomb was dropped? Absolutely. Yeah. And they didn't, we did, we had a regulatory agency before it went commercial. It's, it's, do your job. I mean, when you look at these possible scenarios, I think your job is to try and make sure they don't happen. Those are some really severe scenarios that are very possible in this, in this reality we're in right now. They're possible. And look, on the nuclear thing, we did the nuclear test ban training. We should be leading. Democratic Congressman Rokana of California, thank you very much for sounding the alarm this morning. Coming up, Michigan's Secretary of State, Jocelyn Benson, joins us to talk about

her campaign for governor. The Democratic nominee joins us straight ahead on Morning Joe.