Morning Joe - Reports: Putin Hiding in Underground Bunkers

Episode Date: May 11, 2026

Reports: Putin Hiding in Underground Bunkers To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It represents of the miracle of God. That's what it represents. Not, you know, the statute itself because we all know that this is not some, you know, again, you see it across social media that this is some idol. And what is your response to that? This is somehow a false idol, you know, because people talk about the golden calf. Well, is this the golden Trump? Yeah, well, of course, it's preposterous. It's blasphemy to even think that. I mean, if you knew me, and, of course, I don't know anybody who worships Donald Trump as a God. That was evangelical pastor Mark Burns. Certainly nobody would pray before a golden idol. Yeah, well, he's an advisor to president. No, but you just wouldn't. I mean, that's very obvious.

It's like this is Old Testament stuff, I tell you. You do not. You do. Yeah. He was defending a 22-foot golden statue of the president. I'm sorry, but that kind of looks like Moses comes down from the mountain. and with the tablets, and that's what's there. Look, Le Mier.

The pastor helped unveil the gold leaf statue dubbed the Don Colossus. Last week at Trump National Doral golf course in Miami. Hold on. Can we stop for a second? Alex, was this a South Park stunt? Is this script a joke? Matt Parker and Trey Stone behind this. Matt Parker and Trey Stone have to be behind something so blasphemous.

And have, I'm sorry, is this not a South Park episode where you have somebody that keeps pushing the town of South Park and pushing the town of South Park? And they keep getting more and more blasphemous until they go, okay, let's just do the golden calf statute. So Pastor Mark Burns, who we just heard from there, also went on social media and wrote this phrase, let me be clear, this is not a golden calf. And I'll just say, if you have to say, if you're already, if that's your defense, if you're already in the, let me be clear, this is not a golden calf, I think your defense is raising more questions than it answers. They say the monument is meant to symbolize resilience and patriotism. Reports say the project cost about $450,000 and was funded by crypto investors who promoted a patriot meme coin. Again, happy Monday, everybody. It's early.

I reverse their names, but that is, Stray Parker and Matt Stone, straight out of South Park, is it not? If it's Donald Trump, it's got to be a gold-plated calf at best. I mean, my parents would say cuckoo namuno. That is really crazy. But the pastor was clear, so. Yeah, he answered it. This is not a lot of gold yet. All right. With us, we have the co-host of our 9-m. Hour, staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, co-host of the Restis Politics podcast. The BBC's Caddy Kay.

and emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haas, and editor at the insider Michael Weiss and U.S. national editor and calmness at the Financial Times, Ed Luce. I'm going to start out really quickly, just giving our condolences to Richard Haas, who couldn't even enjoy a Knicksweep this weekend because so many people were busy calling him an anti-Semite on X. We won't give any names,

but the fact that he would dare compare what's happening between Russia and Ukraine and the United States and Iran militarily. And people were suggesting that there's some moral equivalence? This is like saying that when everybody said for 30 years that Afghanistan was the Soviets, Vietnam, that'd be like saying, how dare you compare the evil empire and the United States of America? It's just preposterous. We're not even allowed now to even draw. military analogies like we have forever about what may be happening there?

You know, what's so interesting. And when you think about it is, you know, with, you got Putin going into Ukraine just, what, over four years ago. Right. Thinking it was going to be a three-day war. Cakewalk. Going to be a cakewalk. Get rid of the leadership.

Get rid of Ukraine as an independent, Western-anchored country. It hasn't quite worked out that way. Maybe we'll get to it later. But Putin's losing the war. Yeah. I actually think the chances of a peace deal there are going up because Putin is flat-out, losing this war. And then, obviously, Donald Trump, thinking, confusing Iran and Venezuela, thought this was going to be a takewalk. And by the way, it's not like everybody in foreign

policy circles didn't warn him. This is not Venezuela. Don't go into Iran, Mr. President. This is not Venezuela. We have an update on that. No, and the lack of— Said it every day here. The lack of expertise and experience in the room, you know, that Israeli piece a few months ago, the Jonathan Swan piece was Maggie Haberman. And what's stunning was the lack of anybody essentially or standing up, say, hey, there's like 26 differences here.

And maybe our assumptions aren't right. So, yeah, in both cases, these leaders made enormous bets. Yeah. Turned out to be deeply, deeply flawed. It didn't work. Michael, you know, we've been saying on the show, I guess Richard says it, and maybe he draws more attention, but we've been saying it on this show from the very beginning that if Donald Trump and his team didn't have such contempt for Zelensky, they would have realized that asymmetrical warfare had moved to the.

the next stage. So big powers with great militaries, well, they can still be humbled by asymmetrical warfare. Ukraine is the center of gravity for 21st century warfare, right? I mean, 80% of Russian casualties are being delivered by first person view drones that the Ukrainians have pioneered. How did the Pentagon miss that before they went into Iran? The interesting thing, the Pentagon is not missing it. The CIA isn't missing. Donald Trump. Let me be more exactly. How did Pete Hagsith, Donald Trump, Benjamin Netanyahu, and Lindsey Graham, miss what the entire Intel agency and the entire Pentagon leadership knew. You know, it's so funny.

This guy, Dan Driscoll, the Secretary of the Army, who went to Kiev originally to talk about technology and drone warfare. And then was told to deliver this ultimatum to Zelensky, you must sign on the line, which is dotted to make a peace deal and forfeit Don Boss and over 100,000 people. He's become more of an evangelist for Ukraine because he sees what they do. He's like, we need some of that. That's what the United States needs to learn how to do. And, you know, the Gulf Arab states, which have cut all kinds of bilateral deals with Ukraine, much to the chagrin of Donald Trump, they're saying, hey, you guys went to war with Iran. You couldn't protect us from these Shahid drones.

Guess who can? Guess who's teaching us how to shoot him out of the sky? Ukraine, a country you want to forfeit and sacrifice to the altar of Vladimir Putin. It makes no sense. And how bizarre there are Ukrainians all over the Gulf states right now, all over Saudi Arabia, all of. over the UAE. Why? Because they want to win. Because they want to protect themselves. And the United States can't protect them right now. Ukraine has a technology to do it. You wrote a great piece in the Atlantic this weekend. I think it was on Friday. And you talked about Donald Trump that was very bored with this war and wanted to move on, which we all knew he would be. And we all thought that, you know, I was saying, two weeks, two weeks. He had told me two weeks, two weeks. It's going to be Interesting two weeks.

It can be two weeks. And then I remember saying, listen, there's no way this thing goes into May because he will get bored too quickly. He's going to want to move on and go on to Cuba and other things. He just can't. And we see why. Again, he can't leave that country with a nuclear deal that is even weaker than what he thought Barack Obama's deal was. He can't give them more money than Barack Obama gave. Remember the pallets of cash that Donald Trump and everybody else talked about?

He can't be even more weaker. He can't leave with the Straits being owned by the Iranians, the way it's owned by the Iranians. Now, even if they can make more money after the war on oil than before the war, he looks extraordinarily weak. So he can't leave unless he just wants to be seen as a weaker president than Jimmy Carter and George W. Bush and Iraq, the two presidents he constantly attacked for not getting good deals out of those countries. Yeah, Trump even returned to the pallets of cash argument on true social over the weekend. He's trying to work through in real time how he can get out of this war. He's desperate to get out of it. He is indeed.

As one senior advisor used the word board, that's correct. But there's also this sense he's deeply frustrated and feels like he's boxed in. He doesn't know how to get out. You just mentioned all the reasons why if you were to bail now, it would be a significant loss. And already, he in the United States appear so much weaker. But by the way, can we just underline for everybody? I'm sure everybody at the table will understand. If you lose Iraq, and we could argue about that because after the surge, you know, things got lined up pretty well at the very end.

But if you lose Iraq, you don't destroy the world economy. But as Dr. Prasinski warned on Charlie Rose in 2012, if you go into Iran, then you set the world economy on fire. Why do I bring up Dr. Prisinski? One, because I'm married to his daughter, and I think she'll be nicer to me if I do that. And two, he was saying what CIA analysts have been saying for 30 years, what people like Dr. Prisinski have been saying for 30 years, don't go into Iran. If you go into Iran, you're going to set the world economy on fire. And that's what's happening. I spoke to some ex-intel and military officials for this piece, and they say, for decades, we have wargamed what a battle with Iran would look like.

Move number one for Iran is to close straight and four moves. And that's the first step. This is as complex as this. If you punch Mike Tyson in the face, what happens? He's going to punch you back. Oh, okay. And they knew where that punch was going to be. It was going to be a left hook straight across the straight.

That's what's happened here. And also Iran, which has done this before, is reveling in its ability to sort of humiliate an American president. And that is what's happening right now. Kind of holding him hostage. They're holding him hostage. He desperately wants to move to on other things. It is, whether it's Cuba, he understands the purpose.

political pain here at home. You know, Republicans are frantically telling the White House, look at gas prices, look at the costs, look at the polls. We're in real trouble. But Trump can't even get Iran to, you know, agree to the next meeting. You know, he rejected the, you know, they sent over a one-page proposal that Iran countered. Trump late last night. After Iran made Washington wait a few days for the answer. To be a little to humiliate. Another tweak, Trump says last night, it's unacceptable. So Ed Luce, this has to be all too familiar to you, writing, actually, the biography of Dr. Prasinski. And I must say, reading that biography again, you felt sort of the pain as an American,

who, talking about myself now, who went through that process with the Iranians, day after day, week after week, would string American presidents along. And they did it, of course, you know, to other presidents, too, only to humiliate them at the end. And it did it to Jimmy Carter all the way through. his presidency and waited until Ronald Reagan was sworn in to let the hostages leave Iranian airspace. This is what Iranians do. They humiliate American presidents. It is a specialism that they've been developing over many decades. And the fact that anybody could be surprised by that is extraordinary. This for an Iranian, a militant, even more militant Iranian regime than we

had a couple of months ago, even if it is divided allegedly between moderates and hardliners, is even more of a pleasure, is even more of a bragging right and a justification for who they are and what they do, than the hostage crisis, I think, because the hostage crisis, as you say, it ended at one minute past noon in January 1981. after Reagan had been sworn in, they released them all. And then that was it for a while. But what we're seeing today is the humiliation of the United States. And I'm not sure how Trump gets out of it.

We keep talking about how impatient he is and bored he is. But he's no closer to an exit than he was in week one when we were already seeing the outlines of what is very plain to us today. So, yes, Iran is getting more than its pound of flesh. Its national pastime, or at least a regime pastime, is to trample on the stars and stripes. And Trump has given them that opportunity. They are trampling with, they're taking their time.

They like trampling the stars and stripes. And Trump is so reluctant to resume hostilities. We have seen him extend his ceasefire deadline repeatedly, Iran calling his bluff. We'll see what happens after last night. last night. And the last piece of this, of course, is that this war is now going to overshadow Trump's summit in China. He leaves for Beijing tomorrow. He's heading to meet up with Xi Jinping, something he has eagerly anticipated China, deeply unhappy with the situation. This is now going to dominate those talks. And so now all we have to do is we should have

an office pool on when a certain reporter is going to leak that peace talks are coming and then the next day see people making hundreds of millions of dollars on the leaked story. And the coming peace. How many times have we heard about the coming peace? It's just around the corner. You know, I talked to the president this morning. Peace is at hand. Yeah, right. Yeah, no control over this situation. We'll get to more updates with Iran in just a moment. But first, Russian president, Vladimir Putin, oversaw a very scaled back victory day parade over the weekend in Moscow. The event, which commemorates the Soviet victory over Nazi Germany and World War II usually showcases the country. military might with tanks and ballistic missiles rolling through Red Square.

But on Saturday, soldiers, some of whom have fought in Ukraine, marched through the streets while videos of Russian military weapons were shown on screens and state television. There was also increased security to protect President Putin. They had to show their missiles on TV screens. Yeah. This is about the country. that has no cards to play, Michael Weiss. Let's keep rolling this.

The Ukraine, you have no cards to play. And the Russians, first of all, Putin's hiding in bunkers. And they have to show their military hardware on TVs. I mean, worse than hiding in bunkers, he basically begged Donald Trump, can you please pressure Zelensky not to bomb my victory day parade on Red Square, to which Zelensky said, as a goodwill gesture, we will allow Russia to halt its victory day.

You issued a permit. You should have a parking permit. You can do it. Like a parking permit. Exactly. It's a permitting process. I have to say putting the digital display of military kit on, that's a little bit better than what they did a couple years ago when they only had one tank, a T-34 from World War II,

a museum piece that they rolled out down the, I mean, it's utterly humiliating. This is a three-day war, and we're now into year four. This is good news here, which I actually think we are beginning to, this is the beginning of the end of this war. I think between what's going on economically and what's going on military, the Ukrainian attacks on Russian energy infrastructure. I think Putin's ability to sustain this war is coming to an end. I actually think there's good news here. And by the way, there's also another comparison you can draw between Russia and Iran. They were both economic basket cases before these wars began. Another sign of all that is Putin limiting his public appearances

and staying in bunkers. Meanwhile, Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy visited troops on Friday. he posted videos on social media showing him meeting with soldiers at a command post, writing that they are part of a group involved in liberating the NEPRO reason. Zelensky also mocked Russia online, posting a decree allowing Russia's military parade, which, as we mentioned, included GPS coordinates of red square, seemingly to show Ukraine's ability to strike Moscow. But he wrote on social media, quote, red square is less important to us than the lives of Ukrainian prisoners who can be brought home. Kadi K, you look at what's happened over the last three, four weeks.

There's been a growing realization that the war has shifted dramatically, as David Petraeus has said, and others have said, the future of the Secretary of Army said, the future of warfare is revealing itself right now in Ukraine. And the Europeans, they made a good and timely bet on the future while the United States continues dragging its feet behind. Yeah, I mean, there's a report in the economists just come out that the Ukrainians have taken 130 kilometers of frontline territory just in the course of the last few weeks and that they are making gains. Like you say, Joe, on the battlefield, they got that $100 billion as well from the European Union. So they have more cash. They're doing deals in the Middle East, which is

also replenishing their cash supplies. They have the capacity. to produce more of these drones, they just didn't have the money to do so. So they're getting that now. So they're looking in a much stronger position. I think it's still going to take a while for the Europeans to be able to supply Ukraine with everything that it needs with America pulling out. Ukraine does, my understanding is Ukraine really does still depend very heavily on American intelligence. It's that last country. In the 80-20 rule, the 20% that America is still giving Ukraine is pretty critical to their ability to fight this wall, so they'd still like to keep America on board. But the Europeans have got the message. They've got the message that America is not going to be there. It's going to

take them a while to be able to defend themselves and to defend Ukraine. But they know that that's the direction that they have to move in. And all the while, Vladimir Putin is looking weaker. I'm, you know, I'm waiting for the Ukrainians to drop those little Lego figurine videos that we've been watching out of Iran, where they start trolling President Putin in the same way that the Iranians have been trolling President Trump because that's how it feels at the moment. That's where the balance of power seems to be at the moment. Okay. Coming up, we're going to have more in Iran and Ron saying no to a surrender to Trump's greed to use their words. Still ahead on morning, Joe. Defense Secretary Pete Heggseth is calling for Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of

Arizona to be invested, investigated by the Pentagon. Because he has nothing else going on. Well, number one, number two, he's a child. Yeah, we'll show you what both of Some are saying, plus one of our next guest says President Trump's redistricting push could cost Republicans more than it gains. Politico's Jonathan Martin joins us straight ahead with more on those developments. And as we go to break, a quick look at the travelers' forecast this morning from Accuethers Bernie Rayno. Bernie, how's it looking? Meek, it's another cool day in the northeast for your Monday. Morning clouds will break for some sunshine along the coast.

Boston, New York City, Washington, D.C., partly sunny bus. Cufflow, cool but dry in Chicago. Watch out for a couple of gusty thunderstorms there, from Charleston toward northern parts of Florida, toward New Orleans, spotty thunderstorm in Houston as well. Not many delays, if you're doing any traveling, just a few minor ones around Miami. To help you make the best decisions

to be more in the know, make sure to download the ACUweather app today. Enjoy your Monday. At Luce, your latest piece for The Financial Times is titled, Premature Obituaries for Populism, and in it, you question the belief that the global wave of populism is coming to an end. You write in part, quote, both Trump and Brexit could equally have been declared failures in 2020.

Indeed, many believe that COVID was populism's death now. Trump was defeated 10 months into the pandemic. Evidence of Brexit buyer's remorse was also emerging by then. Neither were born out. Trump came back four years later. and Nigel Farage's Europhobic Reform, UK, has been leading British polls for more than a year. Polls indicate that a year from now, France could elect Marine Le Pen or Jordan Bardella as president. Yet people would doubtless then declare a populist resurgence.

So it's a bit mixed, isn't it? A bit mixed in Poland, a bit mixed, not mixed in Hungary, overwhelming defeat for populism in Hungary. but obviously in Britain right now, in part because of the Tories' total collapse, a void's been created. Yeah, I mean, so it's not just a class or lack of ideas that you're seeing on the center left of Labor with social Democrats in Germany, arguably were Democrats in the United States. It's also the collapse of traditional center-right parties. So you look at Britain, the Tories and Labor used to get 90-something, percent between them. They're now polling at less than 40 percent between them. So it's a story of fragmentation everywhere, volatility. Recently, the Reform Party, the beneficiary of that,

but the Green Party on the far left were also beneficiaries of that. It's a story of electorates just thrashing around, looking for whatever the nearest middle finger sign is that they can find for the way things are going. And so, The reason that I think those who are saying that populism is on the decline or is over, and a number of more and more voices are arguing that, and they're pointing to Orban's defeat, which was a major moment in April, and they're pointing to Trump's doldrums and the likely defeat in the midterm elections. I guess they're pointing to Georgia Maloney's government in Italy actually being more like a normal conservative government than a right-wing populist one.

But I think what these people, they're counting too many chickens too soon. And I think what they're overlooking is that some of the conditions that gave rise to populism a decade ago with Brexit and Trump first being elected, they're as bad, if not worse today than they were then. And until the non-populists have got a theory of the case as to how to get us out of this, it's way too soon to be writing it's obituary. Yeah, well, the Democratic Party right now certainly doesn't have a way forward. They're flopping about if you look at their approval ratings, they're extraordinarily low.

And, you know, in midterms, you can beat something with nothing. The bigger question is what happens in 28. Kady Kay, it's hard to say exactly where this is going to go. I'm a bit more optimistic that populism is receding. because I think you're right when you were talking about the gentleman you spoke with on the BBC in 2016. They said, given it about 10 years, that's when people find out it's all bullshit. Of course, he didn't say that on the BBC, but I can say that on Morning Joe. I do think, though, the one thing we can definitively say here is that Brexit killed the Tory party, as we know it.

Brexit killed the Tories. They had no response to it. Boris Johnson went out, made a fool of himself. One conservative leader after another just wasn't up to the challenge of what Ed was just talking about. What's next? Okay, populism doesn't work. This is what we do instead. Yeah, I mean, they couldn't find a way to deliver after the Brexit referendum that made a deal that made Brits feel better off. And so I think that's been the malaise that's been particularly the case in the UK over the last 10 years. But I agree with you, Joe, there is a point at which populism, if it fails to deliver for people,

and the time frame that I was given back in 2016 was 10 years, we end up with what you've spoken about recently, which is costs and corruption. And then you add in chaos as well. And that was certainly the reason that you had the vote in Hungary that you had. And I think it's the reason that you have the same situation here now with people looking at 10 years of Trump and thinking, well, am I better off? And that's the essential question. Am I better off?

And what Bernie Sanders is tapping into, the fight, the oligarchy, and why, if I'm not better off, but some people seem to be making a lot of money out of it, and that produces quite a lot of unease about the system that they've had. And some of the situations has changed. I mean, both here and in Europe, certainly, the situation around immigration is different. I mean, part of the reason you had Brexit was that you had the Syrian war and that massive exodus of refugees from Syria. right across Europe, and you've had the border being closed here and much less of an immigration issues. So one of the planks of populism has gone. But I think the other place, I mean, Michael, we spoke during the course of this program

about the fact that in Russia, Ukraine, you see a tipping point towards Ukraine at the moment. And I'm wondering actually how much of that is due to the fact that Putin's policies are becoming increasingly unpopular in the country that he's leading at the moment. Are Russians waking up to the fact that, you know, this is costing them a lot of money, that they don't like what's happening, and they don't like losing people in a war that they don't particularly support? Yeah, I think so. And I mean, a lot of these wounds are self-inflicted by Putin and the Russian elites.

You know, one of the things that's had a major impact on the battlefield, the canceling of telegram, you know, the social media app that Russians relied on for targeting packages and communicating. Telegram is also widely used within Russia itself. And so restrictions on internet openness are really starting to hit hard amongst the population there. And then, you know, the economy is cratering. I mean, even this sugar rush of sanctions relief, which we provided the Russians because of our war in Iran, somewhat blunted, not entirely blunted by Ukraine's deep strikes on oil refineries and terminals and so on. It's not trickling down to the people, right? And, you know, the history of Russia is they can tolerate quite a lot.

They can put up with a great deal of pain and heartache. But then it reaches that critical mass. And what's interesting now is you have Western media sort of speculating. Is this the beginning of the end of Putin? Is he really on sort of his last legs? And the Russian opposition for sort of the first time, I mean, they've been saying for 15 years, remember Bolokna, the big protest movement led by Alexei Navalny in 2011. Well, now there is no leadership of the Russian opposition,

and they're all far flung and living in exile. And they're kind of rudderless. They're not there to inherit the country. So there's this kind of great deal of indecisiveness what's going to happen with the future of this country after the war is concluded. Richard, I sense that you're not ready to short populism quite yet. Let me give you two arguments. One is what happened in Hungary, I think it's wrong to interpret that as the end of populism. Bourbon had been in power for 16 years, had made a hash of many things, including the economy.

What you see are rotations of power. So I think it's wrong to see what happened there is somehow all that reassuring. and we're going to see the far right. Britain, we're seeing it in other parts of Europe, do okay. Also, what's going to really fuel populism? What did in the past? It was things like job disappearance, in part because of globalization, trade, new technologies. AI, I actually think, is going to fuel populism in this country big time.

I think we've actually, rather than seeing populism recede, I think it's going to grow, in part for the reason you said. Neither party has begun to get serious about addressing prolonged joblessness. So what's so interesting is what's going on in Britain is almost like off-Broadway. The idea that you see sometimes off-Broadway would come here to Broadway. What we're seeing in Britain, the fragmentation of the political system, it would not shock me if we begin to see it here. A post-Trump Republican Party, MAGA, Greens. I think if the Democrats and Republicans feel to be serious political parties, I actually think that we will see populism

institutionalize itself in the United States increasing. We need to go to break. But before we do, I just wanted to ask Katty. K and Ed Luce, we'll go to you first. What do you think of Richard Haas' description of the King's Realm as quote off Broadway? I commend Richard

for a very apt and accurate description. I mean, you look at new Labor and new Democrats, you look at Thatcher and Reagan, you look populism in 2016. Brexit was a few months before Trump was elected. I think that some of the best theater happened

in off-Broadway, and they don't always make it onto Broadway. Yeah, sorry, Richard, but actually some of the best theater theater happens in London rather than New York. So we are going to claim the center of theater back in the United. I'm sorry. Yes, and as proof of that, we are still waiting for the extraordinary production of Avita to make it from the West End abroad. Ed Luce of the Financial Times and editor at the insider Michael Weiss. Marco Rumio traveled to Italy to meet with Pope Leo

in an attempt to repair the U.S. relationship with the Vatican after the Pope requested anyone but J.D. Vance. The Pentagon on Friday release never before seen files on UFOs, but don't worry, the most dangerous flying objects have already been eliminated. Oh, okay, Democratic leaders. My friends, it's pure a hero. What I mean? 39 past the hour.

leaders in Virginia. I got to say, though, is it not hilarious? You've got Sean Duffy trying to blame Joe Biden for the end of Spirit Airlines. And Mayor Pete. Maraq, did Mayor Pete start a war in Iran that caused fuel prices to spike? Because everybody that runs Spirit said, that is a war that destroyed us. Yeah, I don't think so. And I don't think that the people who used to fly on that airline and save some money

are going to see it that way either. I used to take Spared Airlines myself, going back and forth between college. It was a big discount. And it's just one more blow not only to the economy and to more people who are going to be out of work now. Right. But also to just American voters who are just trying to save some money in a really difficult time. There's no deals anymore. No.

No. Not for working class America. How many flights have been canceled across Europe right now? I'm coming to the United. That's talk about off-brose. Broadway, that'll be coming to the United States if this war continues. Summer flights canceled because of high fuel prices. Nobody blaming that on Mayor Pete. No, many Americans are not going to take summer vacations this year because of the cost of

flights, because so many flights are being canceled. But what the Transportation Secretary, Sean Duffy, has also been doing, he revealed over the weekend, he and his family have been taping a reality show. On the job. They have been, for months, have been doing a road trip across America to celebrate 250. He unveiled this on Fox over the weekend. And again, I know it's a tired game. But could you imagine the outrage if Secretary Buttigieg had said, actually, I haven't only been doing my job part-time for a few months because I'm filming a TV show. And yet Secretary Duffy has done so at a time of crisis in our transportation network. Yeah. Just unbelievable. All right, let's get to the politics here. Democratic leaders in Virginia are scrambling to respond

after the state's Supreme Court struck down a voter-approved congressional redistricting plan on Friday, the new maps could have added as many as four additional Democratic House seats in Virginia. Democratic leaders in Richmond signaled they planned to appeal the ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court. But legal experts noted the state court decision might be final because it did not involve federal law. Let's bring in Politics Bureau, Chief and Senior Political columnist at Politico, Jonathan Martin. Jonathan Martin, this Virginia decision is just one of these moments. It lets you see what Democrats do best, and that is catastrophize. You know, like locusts falling from the heaven, dogs and cats living together,

and yet you kind of, you're like me. I'm like, okay, how close do you want to carve this to the bone, Republicans? Because you got a real problem coming. And what may happen is you may actually cause Democrats to pick up a lot more seats because you're kind of, I've seen this time and time again. Parties get too clever by half and it blows up in their face. You think that's happening right now. Tell us about it. Yeah, I wrote a piece today that it's just not worth it for Republicans.

Just take the raw political case. we could leave the moral case for somebody else to make. The raw politics are this. If the Republicans do this and scramble to basically dilute black political power across the country, they risk three things, in my view, at least. Number one is the historic gains Trump made in 2024 with black voters, especially working class, black voters, especially men. Trump got 21% of black men voters in this country by some estimates.

Number two, you're going to further energize Democrats in a year, Joe, where they're already fired up and ready to go to borrow a phrase. And lastly, as you point out, you cut the salami too thin and you're at risk of creating more competitive seats for incumbent House Republicans who've never run general elections. All they know is primary politics and being more MAGA than now. And suddenly, they got a district that, you know, got 33% of black folks and some suburban whites. And all of a sudden, they got a competitive race for the first time. So this may be in Trump's interest. I just don't see how this is in the interest of the party going forward, given the gains they made with black folks in 2024, how fired up Democrats already are.

And then just all of these seats that are already now going to be in play. So, so, Jamie, I want to just follow up. with you on this. I've always looked at those districts and wildly gerrymandered districts that have been pieced together so the Civil Rights Act could be followed. And I always thought, okay, good, good on policy. I understand this. This makes a lot of sense. But at the end of the day, this is what I believe for 30 years since I was in Congress looking at. I go, but the great irony here is this actually hurts Democrats overall

because you're taking a lot of the Democrats' strongest voters and you're taking you out of all of these districts that would end up hurting Republicans. There was always, Joe, as you know in the South, always being the last 30-plus years,

a tacit, in some cases, explicit bargain between old guard black Democrats and a lot of conventional white Republicans. And the bargain was this. You win, I win. You get your seat, I get my seat, everybody goes home happy. Everybody goes home happy, except for the fact that you had fewer competitive races in the South. And yes, to your point, you had fewer opportunities for Democrats to win House races once polarization set in, and once

the two parties became so purely polarized, and people like Gene Taylor on the coast of Mississippi or John Barrow over in Georgia couldn't win any longer in majority white districts as white Democrats. So it was good for the traditional CBC Democrats who got safe seats. And it was great, obviously, for the Republicans who had heavily white seats in the, you know, deep South. But it wasn't great for competition. And I think now unwittingly, Joe, you could have the Republican Party by racing to grab a half dozen extra seats this year, create more competitive races in a good cycle for Democrats. And by the way, 2028, unless Trump somehow stages of recovery politically. If Trump's approval numbers stay in the 30s in 2028, you're going to see a

similar cycle in 2028. So you're looking at the possibility of a bunch of new competitive seats for at least two cycles in a row across the South. Well, yeah, and you bring a guy like Gene Taylor who I served with briefly before he got defeated, a conservative Democrat in the South that just doesn't get elected anymore. Some more we've talked about just sort of the, the, the political reality of it all. Yeah. And I do think I always thought that this would end up hurting Republicans at the end if they got their wish.

But let's talk about the other side of it, which is, of course, Civil Rights Act gutted yet again. This has been the rights dream since the Civil Rights Act was passed. Yeah, I mean, I think to Jonathan's point, we actually don't know what this means for the national Republican or Democratic Party overall, that's going to play out. What we do know so far is that black political power in the South and therefore in the country has been severely diluted and kneecapped. And that's both in terms of representation. So the ability of these voters under Section 2 to choose someone who often happen to be black, but not always is the case with Representative Stephen Cohen in Memphis. But also in terms of the voting block. So if

I think it's really important that even though what Jonathan says has a lot of truth to it, it's also true that because of the gutting of the Voting Rights Act, these voting blocks have been split, not in two necessarily, but fractured, which actually makes it very difficult to have a moderating effect likely on these other districts. So it's going to be hard in Tennessee, for example, looking at the map. You know, black voters might be 20% of a district. that is overwhelmingly MAGA, that's not really going to help them get fair representation.

So I just, I think that that's still to play out. But it's clear just the swiftness with which these Southern legislatures moved, these Republicans moved, to eliminate black political power. It's clear that the Republicans see black political power as a democratizing force, which it is. They understand that. And this is a way to consolidate power. and it's also a way to express white supremacy.

So it's both. And I don't think we should miss that. And yes, it's going to animate black people and many other Democrats who are angry about this. But, I mean, you know, Joe, because you are from the South, that what the South experiences is not unique. It's just in some ways more Americans. So I think a lot of Americans who are outside the South should take this as a wake-up call that their own rights are under threat. this is an attempt, I believe, to steal an election. And it may not work, you know.

I believe in democracy. I believe in the ability of people to organize. But make no mistake, this is devastating. And the gravity of this is only beginning to make itself felt. And it seems to be accelerating. The attempts by Republicans to rig the election in such a way that, you know, that it at least makes sense. competitive in a race, say other whites would get wiped out in. And every day, you hear every day,

you hear another example of Republicans trying to change the rules to rig the system. In their direction, Politico's Jonathan Martin. Thank you very much. His latest piece for Politico magazine is available to read online right now. And still ahead on morning, Joe, gas prices remain high sitting this morning at a national average of more than $4.50. That's nearly a $1.40 more than this time last year. The same Republican congressman that said Blaine Biden, thanks Biden, they're now saying, ah, don't worry about it. It'll come down after the war.

Don't worry about it. Now the Trump administration is floating the possibility of suspending the gas tax, but will Congress get on board with that proposal? We'll dig into that ahead on top. morning Joe. Were you even a little surprised at how many new fans were here today? Not, man, because everybody was begging for Philly to not sell the tickets and all that stuff.

So, man, yeah, it's, I used to think Philly was a sports town. I don't know if it is anymore. Okay, here we are. That is rubbing some salt in there. That is going to be a rough. Josh, Mark, next year. clause. That was Nick's guard, Josh Hart, taking a jab at.

Old City of Philadelphia, following New York's serious clinching road win over the 76ers. It seemed more like a home game for the next week. The next week are good one season, and they start talking to wrap. Yeah, the last title was when again? So, anyway, let's bring. So this game, barely

a game, was essentially over after just two quarters, as the Knicks made 18 three-pointers to tie the NBA record for half before sweeping their way to the Eastern Conference finals, with a 144 to 114-14 game for victory, a game that wasn't as close as the score. The Knicks now await the winner of the Pistons Cavaliers Series, and New York will have at least a week off before the conference finals tip off.

Let me ask really good. Pablo, what is it about the Knicks? I mean, this is, they've been run horribly for half a century, and yet the people, I mean. Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, no. No, no, I'm just saying, but even through all of that, I've never heard of franchise that people love to hate on more. And yet there's something like really unifying about them.

When they're good, the whole city goes crazy. There's something about calling your building the greatest arena in the world and actually living up to it for a bit. And so in this case, look, I mean, this is hype except it's actually right now in this playoff run, the greatest I've seen the Knicks play. my lifetime at least. Well, it goes back to 73.

So here's a stat. So here's a stat for you. The Knicks are eight and two in these playoffs. There was six games against the Hawks, four against the Sixers. There are two losses where by a total of two points. Two points. There are eight wins by a total of 196, which means that's nearly a 25 point margin of victory for each game. The New York Knicks arguably have never played better.

And they are now in a very uncomfortable and unfamiliar position of being. the favorites, certainly in the east. But let me really. I think we can safely say, this really is the most dominant performance by any New York team since the New York Yankees in 2004 in the first three games of the other. That was a cheap shot.

You know what? 19 to 8. 19.8. It was the most dominant performance. I've seen any New York show. And that ended in time. I forget how that ended. That was... I'm sure to be fine.

Listen. By the way, okay, of course, that's right. They did go into Luzor, but in the Yankees' defense, you guys have won one World Series this century, and that's cute. You know what? I think, I think. Hopefully ugly for so early in the morning. The sun is overrated.

Icarus is going to get them one of these. No, look, they have a week off and get healthy. They have a few naggy injuries they can rest. It's incredible, man. The Knicks are in great shape. We should mention the Western Conference last night. Victor Wembenyama, one of the best players in the league, ejected because he threw a vicious elbow.

I'm sure we have tape. I mean, deservedly ejected. Hard to argue. Hitting a guy in the throat, which we'll see in a second here. And then with his absence, the, you're ready. Oh, yeah, that'll do it. That will do it. I know the NBA has a flopping crisis the moment.

That was not a flop. He got hit with broke. And with Wembe out, we lose. That series is two-two. Okay. You just said the Knicks were incredible. What was happening was incredible. I want to remind you of the Jackson Lamb quote at the end of this past series.

It's not the hope that killed you. It's the knowledge that it's the hope that killed you. And you Knicks fans should have that knowledge. You should be Jackson Lamb instead of Cartwright. Let's enjoy the moment. You beat the Hawks. You beat my Hawks. And the Sixers.

And the Sixers. Let's bring in the founder of Men and Blazers. Are they even a sports? He's not even a celebrate. I came here for something. Roger. It's 53 years. I can't stop that.

Give me some poetry. We're only halfway. Roger. Roger, finish the quote. It's not the hope that kills you. Oh, it's being an Arsenal fan that kills you, Joe. You know. Well, and again, Arsenal fan should know for the un-initiated at home,

Arsenal, I think three out of the last four years, have dominated the fall. And I've been ahead at the Christmas break. which is a big thing in Premier League and then they have collapsed to Man City three out of four years. It's so true. They are Marveleavy's Buffalo Bills in modern form.

Let's get into it because the Premier League is down to its final furlong. There's two weekends to go. Arsenal and Manchester City race for the ages. It's like the Batman being pursued by the Joker in the Dark Nights. Manchester, Saturday, second place city, unfamiliar,

needing to win to pile on the pressure on Arsenal played a day later. They were playing Brentford, who were essentially scrappy-do in footballing form, and they held on for an agonising hour until Jeremy Dooku went all tap dancing like happy feet and dispatched the ball with their heartfelt position of peak playoff, Jalen Brunson.

Oh, an incredible relief. Within 15 minutes, look at that man, it would be too. Ball bundled into the Kenny Loggins Danger Zone, and Earl in Harlan pounced upon it, big man doing delicate things, but like watching Shaquille O'Neill make jewelry and City pile on the pressure. They play...

They play again midweek Arsenal, they played Sunday. This team, they like Sisyphus Arsenal. They all like the Knicks. Sisyphus in sporting form. They had to win to control their destiny. They're going to West Ham to be like going to a place where everyone likes to taste of their own blood in their mouth.

That's modern England. It was goalless. It was a knife fight. 78th minutes. West Ham breakthrough. Mood swing. David Raya blocks the ball like Dekhembe Matumbo. A save for the ages.

Look at this. We 1,000 Arsenal fans getting that leg spread, tattooed on their person. And then a mood swing. A couple of minutes later. Arsenal skipped through, tiny dancer, Leandro Trussard, the hero.

It felt like noise, drama, release, wonder. Oh, my God, that tiny little Belgian. won a hero until at the death. Stay with me here, America. Controversy. 95th minute.

West Ham thing that they've scored. But on video review, I promise you, just understand this America. Why we go? We're at Liverpool. My God. This is Liverpool and Chelsea, Joe. This game, why are we showing this?

It's worse that your team, essentially, Boston Red Sox Liverpool, in worse shape than Spirit Airlines at the moment. I would say that with no pressure. But I just wanted to end by, that goal essentially that they just conceded is Benny Hills, yacety yak in footballing form. And that's it, Joe.

Arsenal, if they do it, it would be like the Knicks, which is almost unfathomore for me to say as a Bulls fan winning the NBA title. It's a joy to be with you. It's a joy to be with you. And by the way, if you had on your bingo card, Mutambo, I love the reference, Shaq making jewelry,

Elton John's tiny dancer, Brits loving the taste of their own blood in their mouth, Spirit Airlines collapse, and Benny Hill, you win. Roger. The founder has me on this show. I'll just say, also winning the title would be up there with Pablo Torre winning a Pulitzer. It would be that unbelievable.

Big last year. As the scrappy due of morning, Joe, I appreciate it. I don't know what to do with him. The founder of Menonleyses. Let me ask Roger. We've got a big hour ahead, but I do have to ask you this really quickly. How are things looking for the World Cup? Obviously, a lot of concerns about the World Cup being in the United States, ICE, Trump,

etc, et cetera, et cetera. How's the world community of viewing this World Cup? Well, the World Cup always now in a modern period, the drama going into it is always about doomsaying, darkness, South Africa 2010. We're all going to be murdered because of the crime spree. Brazil, 2014, the economic and social unrest was going to overwhelm the tournament. Once a ball kicks off, it becomes like a global eclipse that sweeps the planet in a mesmerizing, emotionally cognitive dissonance style. I hope that's the case here.

But football is just a mirror to the world, Joe. It shows you who you are. And we're going to show the world either the scenario you just painted or the world will fall in love with burnt ends in Kansas City and lemon pepper wet in Atlanta. And it will be magnificent. And I pray for the latter.