Morning Joe - RFK Jr. faces bipartisan backlash at hearing

Episode Date: September 5, 2025

RFK Jr. faces bipartisan backlash at hearing

Do you agree with me that the president, that the president deserves a Nobel Prize for Operation Warp Speeds? Yeah, absolutely, Senator. Let me ask you. But you just told Senator Bennett that the COVID vaccine killed more people than COVID. Would you accept the fact that a million Americans died from COVID? I don't know how many died. You're the Secretary of Health and Human Services. You don't have any idea how many Americans died from COVID.

COVID. I don't think anybody knows that because there was so much data chaos coming out of the CDC. Secretary Kennedy, in your confirmation hearings, you promised to uphold the highest standards for vaccines. Since then, I've grown deeply concerned. If we're going to make America healthy again, we can't allow public health to be undermined. HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., getting a bipartisan grilling yesterday on Capitol Hill amid turmoil at the CDC. in controversial changes to vaccine policies. We'll have much more from that hearing in just a moment. Also ahead, we will dig into the big economic news of the day as the August jobs report is due out this morning. President Trump, though, is saying, don't believe the numbers, saying that even before

they come out. And an update from the U.S. Open where American Amanda Aniso Mova has made it to her second consecutive Grand Slam final. There will be an American at the final of the U.S. Open coming up. tomorrow good morning welcome to morning joe it is friday september 5th joe you were there at the u.s open watch a little tennis yesterday how was it yeah well you know we usually don't go out on school nights awfully late being out there but i was i was invited by donnie deutch and as you know donnie jacked up right now on creatine so when he invites you it's true you really have to go but it's extraordinary i mean i mean you go there i we we don't get out there very much and uh as you know it's quite an event and you're just right there everything you're right there on top of the tennis players

the arena and it was just a great match by the way we saw uh al al roker and laura jared they were they were there and there's so many other people that we knew watching watching the match but a great match and jessica bagu'll almost pulled it out but wow two incredible matches last night two great matches and you get another lineup tonight for the men's semifinal you get alcoraz against jokovic and then of course yonick sinner who's steam rolling his way through the tournament so far so always fun out at in queens watching this tournament another big night tonight we'll have more highlights coming up a little bit later with us this morning the co-hosts of our fourth hour staff writer at the atlantic jonathan lamere u.s special correspondent for bbc news and host of the rest is politics podcast katy k the host of way too early MSNBC Senior Capitol Hill Correspondent Ali Vitale, politics bureau chief and senior political columnists of Politico, Jonathan Martin, and Rogers Chair in the American Presidency at the Unbeaten so far this year, Vanderbilt University historian John Meacham.

Full House for us this morning, Joe. I mean, Joe, John Meacham, obviously associated with the Unbeaten Vandy Commodores. Also, though, wants us to know he's unbeaten at the Belmead Country Club over 80 tennis tournament that they try to start at the same time as the U.S. Open. And Willie, let me tell you something. They come at him, he just swats him away. He, yeah, he beat somebody yesterday. And it was pretty incredible in a walker that used a walker, but meets him at the same.

time jumped over the mat, you know, fingers in his face going, there's a reason why I've been the over 80 Belmead champ for 10 years now. I just want a quick fact check. Unbeaten is a little strong, and you don't want to drop shot. You don't want to be the last guy who returns a ball to somebody. So it's a very apricating the motion with that. Meecham got the waiver into the over 80 again. All right. We'll tackle some more tennis, John, a little bit later.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure how he does that. I'm not sure how he does it. I've got to say, by the way, I've been watching what's happening on Capitol Hill for a long time now, Willie. I don't know that I've ever seen a bipartisan drubbing of a cabinet member from Republicans and Democrats alike. The likes of which we saw yesterday, it was brutal from beginning to end. Some people even calling RFK Jr. the Kalin DeBore

of Trump's cabinet. So it was a really, really bad day. I knew we were coming back to Alabama somehow and you got us there. Yeah. Health and Human Services Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. faced pointed questions to put it mildly from lawmakers on both sides of the aisle during that heated hearing yesterday. Over the course of about three hours, members of the Senate Finance Committee grilled Kennedy on vaccine policy and the chaos at the CDC right now. Democrats calling him a charlatan and a hazard to the health of the American people, some of them saying he should resign. Did you accept the fact that a million Americans died from COVID? I don't know how many. I feel far.

Health and Human Services, doesn't know matter how many Americans died from COVID. You don't know if the vaccine help prevent any deaths. And you are sitting as Secretary of Health and Human Services? How can you be that ignorant? You are citing data that you won't produce to the public. You're just making things up. You're making things up to scare people, and it's a lie. I don't think, I don't, with respect, I do not think I'm the one making.

You are lying right now, Senator. I'm asking the questions, Mr. Kennedy. I'm asking the questions for Mr. Kennedy on behalf of parents and schools and teachers all over the United States of America who deserve so much better than your leadership. That's what this conversation is about, Mr. Chairman. Senator, they deserve the truth, and that's what we're going to give them for the first time in the history of that agency. state. Well, not just the Democrats, though, who went after Kennedy, several Republicans, including two physicians, two physicians who voted to confirm him also pressed Kennedy on a number of issues. Do you agree with me that the president, that the president deserves a Nobel Prize

for Operation Warp Speed? Yeah, absolutely, Senator. Let me ask you. But you just told Senator Bennett that the COVID vaccine killed more people than COVID. Wait, that was a statement. I did not say that. Okay, then let me ask because you also Senator, I just want to make clear. I cannot say that. We'll check. You also told Senator Wyden at the outset that you didn't want to take vaccines away from people. And as I conclude, I would like to say this. Because of the conflicting recommendations made by about COVID, this is from Eric Erickson, good conservative out of Atlanta, Georgia, occasionally gives us. me help. My wife has stage four lung cancer. She is one of the people that COVID vaccine actually

helps. Thanks to the current nest at HHS, CVS is unable to get her vaccine. I would say effectively we're denying people vaccine. Senator Cantwell, I hate it wrong. I believe one of President Trump's greatest achievements was his bold and successful actions on COVID. When faced with a global pandemic, he didn't back down. He was determined to find a cure and through Operation Warp Speed and a vaccine was developed that distributed quickly, safely, effectively, and I believe it saved many, many lives. I think it's a model of American ingenuity and public-private partnership. I can't conclude from the discussion today where you are on warp speed. So I would like the definitive statement on exactly where you are. Was it good? Was it bad? Were the things that worked?

Were the things that didn't work? I can't discern that from what you said here. I, for one, think that it was a signature accomplishment of President Trump and the MRNA platform is something. I agree with that. I look forward to you giving us a detailed statement on exactly where you are with warp speed. I support vaccines. I'm a doctor. Vaccines work. Secretary Kennedy, in your confirmation hearings, you promised to uphold the highest standards for vaccines. Since then, I've grown deeply concerned. The public has seen measles outbreaks, leadership in the National Institute of Health questioning the use of MRNA vaccines,

the recently confirmed director of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention fired. Americans don't know who to rely on. If we're going to make America healthy again, we can't allow public health to be undermined. So could you explain what steps you're going to be taking to ensure vaccine guidance is clear, evidence-based, and trustworthy? We're going to make it clear, evidence-based, and trustworthy for the first time in history. I don't see how you go over four weeks from a public health expert with unimpeachable scientific credentials, a longtime champion of maha values, caring and compassionate and brilliant

microbiologists, and four weeks later, fire her because at least the public reports say because she refused to fire people that work for her. So as somebody who advised executives on hiring strategies, number one, I would suggest in the interview. You ask them if they're truthful rather than four weeks after we took the time of the U.S. Senate to confirm the person just for the future nominee that we're going to have to consider. So a lot in there, Joe. By the way, Senators Barrasso and Cassidy are the two medical doctors. Two of them you saw grilling Kennedy there asking him about Operation Warp Speed, which even Donald Trump has been touting within the last couple of days as one of his great achievements and

an interesting and effective strategy by Republicans putting Kennedy in the box of saying, do you agree that what President Trump, the guy who gave you your job did, is worthy of the Nobel Prize or was successful, and got him to at least say that, which then boxes him in when he talks about the vaccine. And he did, we want to point out, in 2020, call the COVID vaccine the deadliest vaccine ever made. That's a direct quote from Bobby Kennedy, Jr. So a lot to sift through there, Joe. a lot of sift through i mean as the senators said themselves a lot of lies he just lied repeatedly according to the senators according to the republicans and and it is it is just really unbelievable

j mart that you you would actually have a cabinet member uh for donald trump undermine what would all of those senators republican and Democratic alike were saying could have been Donald Trump's greatest achievement in Operation Warp Speed, undermining it and saying more people died from Donald Trump's actions than from COVID itself. And, you know, it would be one thing. You know, we always talk about, oh, well, you know, the Republican Party believes this, so they're scared of the Republican Party. You know, these Republican senators were quoting polls that showed that the overwhelming majority of Republicans support vaccines, the overwhelming majority of Americans believe that COVID vaccine saved lives.

And yet you have this very, very small slice of the Republican electorate running with conspiracy theories. and then RFK Jr., who, according to Republicans, are putting children's lives in danger. So why he is at HHS remains, it remains a question that there doesn't seem to be any logical answer to. Well, I think he cut a deal with Trump during the campaign last year in which he would endorse Trump and would get this plum position in the administration. I think it's a basically straightforward horse trading proposition.

But Joe, as you know, Trump is loyal to Trump. And if you're getting bad coverage and you're getting bad juju on Trump, he eventually is going to get tired of you. So I think Kennedy's facing profound challenges because of that. Just real fast, let me pull back the curtain on why I think there is so much hostility from the Senate Republicans. You know, they spent the first half of the year, basically without recess, in D.C., mostly to confirm members of Trump's cabinet, right? And they got through quite a few cabinet

members. And they confirmed some folks who have now been basically turned out on their ear after a week's long tenure. So I think they're frustrated because of that. Here we are confirming your guys. Then you push them out a half an hour later. It's embarrassing and frankly humiliating for us. The biggest news I thought in those clips you played was the role of John Barrasso. This is hugely important. John Barrasso is not just a Trump supporter, certainly. He's the number two ranking Senate Republican. He's the Republican whip. And for him to sit up there, reading from prepared remarks, that was not off the cuff, he knew what he was doing. It was a planned attack. To sit and read those remarks from Wyoming, by the way, not exactly the upper

west side of Manhattan, I thought was very significant and reflected the profound frustration in the Senate GOP caucus about Kennedy and also just about confirming these folks who Trump then fires two weeks later. Yeah, to J.MART's point, President Trump, his affections only go so far and they can change on a dime. But right now he's standing with Kennedy.

He likes the Kennedy name, the Kennedy legacy. He likes that endorsement. He likes that Kennedy's working for him. People I've talked to in the White House say his view on Kennedy has not changed to this point. Also, there's a sort of a stubbornness here. We know Trump's first term marked by a lot of turnover.

And it's really a point of pride for this administration that we haven't seen that yet, except for the one national security advisor who was shown the door early. Otherwise, he's standing by his picks. So Ali Vitale, though, it is still so striking as we're documenting here that Republicans are willing to, you know, stand up to a Trump pick,

really give it to Kennedy yesterday. And we can't underscore this enough how dangerous a lot of what he said was. We shouldn't lose that while we analyze the politics of it. But what do you think here? Is this, is this, where do we go? Is there going to be such pressure from the hill? Is this another moment where maybe, maybe we've seen a couple of them

where the GOP is willing to stand up to Trump and say, we're not just going to take everything you put our way? Well, I think J-Mart's read was my read, because when I saw Barrasso, not just Cassidy, who had already been pretty vocal about the fact that he had concerns or whatever else, but the fact that Barrasso was willing to, in prepared remarks, say what he said, I think, is important. You saw a lot of those senators bringing in their prior history

from before they came to Congress. Senator Michael Bennett, for example, was the superintendent of the Denver area school district. So when he says I'm speaking on behalf of parents and students, he literally has been in those roles before. He knows what it means when places like Florida get rid of vaccine mandates and the impact of that on schools and on students. So that's an important piece of it. But I think when you talk about what happens next, probably nothing, right? I mean, pressure is important. You talk to public health officials as I have. They say that the pressure is important to remind people of what you said, Lamere, that this is dangerous talk from the head of the HHS. But then at the same

time, these members had every opportunity to voice their concerns with Kennedy, which they had then and still clearly have now, by not voting for him. And they all ultimately fell in line. And that's where the politics and the public health are so inextricably linked here. The other politics piece, I think, that is important when we consider the role of RFK Jr. and why he was able to carve out such a plum role as J-Mart detailed, it's because the Maha coalition is a sort of weird coalition within MAGA that does stand as the reason why Trump, even on his signature achievement of Operation Warp Speed, does tend to waffle, even in truth social posts this week, saying, yes, I thought it was effective, but the pharmaceutical company should show why it was effective. He's waffled on this

before, and it's because RFK controls a pretty important sect of the MAGA base, politically speaking. Yeah, and really we have seen President Trump on a number of occasions really cater to the fringes of his political base. He doesn't necessarily need them, but he's worried about alienating them. They're small, but they're loud. Yeah, the Wall Street Journal is writing about all this. It's editorial board just this morning writing RFK Jr's Operation Warped Memory. That's the title of the piece. The editorial board writes this.

Mr. Kennedy struggled to defend his inconsistencies. Vice President J.D. Vance tried to ride to Mr. Kennedy's defense, writing on social media. When I see all these senators trying to lecture and got you, Bobby Kennedy, today, all I can think is you all support off-label, untested, and irreversible hormonal therapies for children, mutilating our kids and enriching big pharma. You're full of blank, and everyone knows it. That's a tweet from the Vice President of United States. The Wall Street Journal writes, classy as ever, Mr. Vice President,

none of this is true of Dr. Cassidy, Dr. Barrasso, and other senators, and the Vice President knows it. Mr. Vance is trying to rally Republicans to RFK's side by framing this dispute in a polarized partisan framework, either or, us, them. That may serve his political purposes as he courts RFK's supporters with 2028 in mind, but it won't win over anyone paying attention to the health secretary's contradictions as he attacks life-saving vaccines. And we should point out, as he tried to say yesterday in one of those exchanges with the Republican Senator Caddy, that no, no, I like MRNA vaccines. his leadership, the HHS just pulled back half a billion dollars in funding to support the development of those very vaccines. I mean, in some ways it was a frustrating hearing because you had

a lot of slipperiness going on, right? You had the secretary saying that he supported MRNA, well, we know he's doing something else. He's saying that, yes, COVID vaccines will be available to everybody, but also saying at the same time, but it's not recommended for certain people who are healthy, which then means that they may not be available in pharmacies, insurers may not have it. So I think that you heard some of that frustration from the senators who felt that they were hearing one thing when another thing was being done. But I agree with Jay Martin Ali. The most important criticism was from Senator Barrasso, who is close to the vice president, who is close to the White House. He would not have been out there freelancing. And for him to use

that platform. It's so rare for him to step out of line against the White House, for him to decide to use that platform. To do that, you wonder, what was he trying to do? Is he trying to get the White House to a position where the secretary's position is no longer tenable? Why was he doing that? If there really isn't going to be any result from this, why would he stick his neck out in that way, Joe? Well, and you know, it's just, this is not a political game. And some people in the White House may think it is. Some people around Kennedy may think it is. It's not a political game. This is serious. Life or death. The matters are involved here. And just as Senator Cassidy said, he quoted Eric Erickson, who said his wife is a stage four lung cancer survivor and a patient.

and she needs the COVID vaccine. She can't get it now from CVS because of Senator Kennedy. Now, we know, Eric, multiply that thousands and thousands of times. It's happening all over America. And children are getting sick from diseases that they haven't had in years that have been eradicated because of one person at the Department of Asia. HHS. And the question is, if Republicans are against him, if Democrats are against him, how long does he stay there? And, you know, this is, John Meacham was just really surreal. You know, we get numbed by everything that has been thrown our way over the past decade. But yesterday was particularly surreal when you had somebody lying about just facts, lying about medicine, lying about medical research, lying about what we all knew, lying about what he knew when he got every one

of his children vaccinated when they were young, but is now saying, it's okay for my children, but not for your children. And I just, we always ask you to find parallels. But, but, you know, I guess the no-nothings were backward looking. They were nativist. They wanted to go back in time. were fueled by fear, by conspiracy theories, by lies. And my God, J.D. Vance, I'm so glad the Wall Street Journal editorial page called him out yesterday. Basically, J.D. Vance, one of the dumbest things that, you know, this administration always does, this magabase always does, is they take an issue like this and say, oh, you must be with, like, trans. You must be with, with mutilating children for surgeries when they're transitioning.

He did that, yes. Totalize. Is he really saying that about John Barrasso? Is he really saying that about Bill Cassidy? Is he really saying that about the 75% of Republicans who oppose what RFK Juniors think? Does J.D. Vance really think that 75% of Republicans support like trans operations for minors because that's what he said yesterday. And I'm so glad the walls, there's only so much stupidity you can put up with. I'm so glad the Wall Street Journal editorial page called him out.

But I know it's going to be hard. I mean, but outside of the no-nothings, what other political movement has has produced such backward-looking stupidity? Well, the vaccine, uh, hesitancy, denial, uh, not even hesitancy, I guess. In some ways, comes out of the John Birch Society, comes out of the Cold War paranoia that was a coma permanent in the 50s and really exploded in the 60s. And what I think we're, in fact, I think Secretary Kennedy is against the foredation of water, which was a literal part of the John Birch Society as well. And, you know, I think vaccines are like, and don't hold me exactly this analogy,

it's a little bit like traffic rules, right? You kind of don't have an option of, well, I'm going to stop or not stop at that light. Because, not because it's your, you know, it's part of the social contract that you give up a little bit of your liberty in order to protect the safety of the many. And I think in a huge way, what we're dealing with in the country broadly put, is a breakdown of lowercase being Democratic covenant. And this is the most vivid example of that. People like me and you know, you and I talk about this a lot, talk about, you know, the constitutional order and the Declaration of Independence and responsible citizenship. And I love talking about that, almost as much as I love the drop shot.

But this is one where an actual intersection with daily reality. And I was going to ask you what's going on in Florida, which I was just, I don't want to say puzzled by, but it did seem a little bit out of the blue just to say, hey, we're going to pull out of what is decade upon decade upon decade. of public health. And again, it's just a race to the bottom. And these people that are saying it now vaccinated their own children. I guarantee you we're the first in line

to get the COVID vaccine shots. In fact, before Ron DeSantis put his finger in the wind to see which way the political winds were blowing, he was rushing to veterans across the state of Florida so they could get the COVID vaccine shots first. And then suddenly he figured out that a small subset of his political party were against vaccines, were against COVID vaccines.

And now these politicians, these HHS secretaries who made sure their own families got the vaccines and got the boosters are now the first in line, Willie. to be saying, oh, you don't get that, you know, for, again, political purposes. They're taking care of their own families. They're making sure their own family's safe. And then they're spreading this lie to other families. And just for those people that don't know, just to put this in political perspective, before this became an issue for extremists on the far right post-COVID,

It was Republicans. It was conservatives. It was people in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, West Virginia that were making fun of the hippies in San Francisco and Berkeley who were anti-vaxxers. It wasn't that long ago that all the anti-vaxers were like derided as left-wing freaks. And I've said it before, it bears repeating this morning. And those southern conservative states that are doing things like Florida now or talking about doing things like Florida now, they were this, they were the first states and some of the only states in America that refused to have religious exemptions for vaccines. They said it's so important for our children.

It's so important for their health that there will be no religious exemptions. and then a group of extremists come in, they impact the magabase, and then RFK Jr. comes in, they start spreading these lies and conspiracy theories, and now suddenly, it's not the hippies in Berkeley, it's the fat, old politicians in the deep south, the boss hogs in the deep south, that are now, trying to take vaccines away from little children. And again, after making sure all of their children got the same vaccines. Yeah, and the flea surgeon general in Florida who made that announcement the other day is in league with Bobby Kennedy Jr. as being a vaccine skeptic. So these people who were viewed as quacks perhaps or conspiratorial at best now have been elevated to these

positions of power. And just to underline your point about the polling, Harvard School of Public Health poll this summer. Excuse me, 80% of Americans, 80% of Americans agree that there should be vaccine mandates for children going to school. That includes 68% of Republicans and 66% of people who identify themselves as MAGA, strong supporters of President Trump in his agenda. Two-thirds of them believe there should be mandates. And even the people who don't think there should be aren't worried about the safety of the

vaccines, they just think it should be a parent's choice. important to understand the numbers here. Coming up next, we're going to speak to a leading medical expert about all of this. He's also warning about our preparation now for future deadly pandemics. Plus, Jaymart writes in his latest piece, there's only one true bipartisan issue left. We'll tell you what that is when Morning Joe comes right back. Live picture, the sun coming up of the United States Capitol 631 on this Friday morning. That is where Senators grilled RFK Jr. yesterday about the COVID-19 pandemic. Our next guest is looking at the possible public health dangers ahead under Kennedy's leadership.

Joining us now, Director of the University of Minnesota Center for Infectious Disease Research, Dr. Michael Osterholm. He's out with a new book, The Big One, How We Must Prepare for Future Deadly Pandemics. Dr. Osterholm, it's great to have you back with us. You were so instrumental in guiding us through the pandemic through all those years. So fascinated to talk about your book, but I'm also curious as a physician and given your area of expertise, what you made of what we saw yesterday on Capitol Hill in the testimony from RFK Jr. I think, first of all, cutting through the political theater, I have to say in my 50 years in the business, I've never seen a more dangerous time for public health. We're watching as destruction not just in this country, but throughout the world, largely because the U.S. pullback on such things as PEPFAR, USAID, being part of the WHO.

When you add that all up right now, this is a serious challenge that I don't think people really realize the extent to which that threatens the very public health structure that we've so relied upon for the last hundred years. Yeah, and Dr. what you're writing about is the degradation of the public health service that we saw on display yesterday up on Capitol Hill. at the same time that we could be facing something as a planet more serious, you're saying, than the COVID epidemic that we all thought was the big one. And in fact, what people have to understand is we are constantly in a battle with microbes.

And if you look at all the wars of the last century, which, of course, have been significant in terms of what they've done, microbes still kill more people. And we don't really realize that that war that we have, you can never let up on. And just as an example of why what's happening right now is so relevant to this, is if we had an influenza pandemic right now, which we could easily have one today, we have only the capability to make vaccine for about a quarter of the world's population in 12 to 15 months after, in fact, the pandemic begins.

Millions would die, would never have access to the vaccine. The very program that would likely our gift to get out of that is the MRNA technology that Mr. Kennedy has just basically withdrawn all the support for. And so if we had that technology, we could probably make enough doses of vaccine in the first year to vaccinate the whole world. On vaccines and what we heard yesterday, one of the things that seemed to need some clarifying was whether one point, Mr. Kennedy was saying, yes, everybody has access to vaccines who want them. And the senators were saying, well, hold on a second. If you're saying that only healthy people need the vaccine, then that actually starts putting a chill on the system in providing those vaccines. Can you talk about that a little bit more?

Because I thought that needed some clarification. You know, he tries to nuance this in such a way as it makes it sound like it's clear, but it's not. There's great confusion right now. Not only can I get a vaccine, but who will pay for it? You know, this past year, we had over 160 kids in this country die from COVID. Most of those individuals had no known risk factor for having serious illness. So if I'm a parent today, I'm not being told I have to vaccinate my child, but please don't take the vaccine away from me if, in fact, I want to do that.

And right now in this country, according to Mr. Kennedy's guidelines, you could not get a vaccine for a younger child. It would be something that many of the doctors and pharmacists who administer vaccines said, I can't do that because it's not something permitted. So it's much more than just a recommendation. He is putting barriers into this. He's also creating great doubt. Yesterday, he said again that there's only one study that's ever been done

that's looked at childhood vaccines from the standpoint what we call a randomized controlled trial where half the kids get the vaccine, half get a placebo, nobody knows who, and therefore at the end, basically, you can really rely on those data. We have 511 such studies that have been published, and he knows this. He knows this. And he still elects to say these things. And that's hard because that's what's confusing the public right now. Yeah, it's hard. It's extraordinarily dangerous and the new book the big one how we must prepare for future deadly pandemics is out now director of the university of minnesota center for infectious disease research as always dr michael osterholm thank you so much for being thank you jonathan martin you have a new

piece for politico uh saying that there's only one true bipartisan issue left tell us about it well it's an amazing story i think it should not that should have gotten more attention that hasn't in part because this is happening in state capitals, Joe, not in Washington, D.C. But that is the movement to ban these things, cell phones. Sorry, kids. You can't have these during a school day any longer. This is taking off in state after state, bell-to-bell bans. And Joe, what is so fascinating about this, we're in this extraordinarily tribal moment, deep blue-red divisions.

This is an issue that has united liberal and conservative governors alike. There's no partisan gap here that I can see. Sarah Huckabee Sanders has been an evangelist for this in Arkansas, Phil Murphy, Kathy Hokel, in Jersey and New York have as well trying to get bell-to-bell bands done. And I think there's a feeling, Joe, that giving kids access to phones around the clock is just detrimental, not just to their education, but their social growth and development. And a lot of this goes back to a book called The Anxious Generation, written by NYU Guy, named Jonathan Haidt, which has been on the bestseller list of the New York Times like

Harry Potter level length. I think 76 straight weeks or something like that. It came out in March of 2024. As of this week, it was back to number one on the list because parents everywhere, no matter if they're from the deepest blue or deepest red parts of the country, are concerned about their kids and have come to believe that phones are not healthy in classrooms. So it's a little bit of a sort of, I think, happy story at a moment of so much despair in our country's politics. Boy, and things have changed. I mean, back when I was in school, you couldn't have clackers or Nerf lawn darts, now phones. Politics Bureau Chief and Senior Political Political Political Political Collins of Politico, Jonathan Martin, thank you. I mean, can you believe, Willie, that Nerf used

to have lawn darts? Like, you talk about just playing with fire. It's pretty darned. and dangerous. But, you know, I got to say about the phones and about this story, I think my question's always been, why in the world at any principal? Why in the world at any school board? Why in the world did any teacher ever let kids take phones into schools anyway? They're there to learn not to scroll down Instagram. Yeah, it's easy to forget, as popular as this is now, and Jonathan's right about that. And Jonathan Heights's book certainly had a lot to do. There was a wake-up call to parents everywhere about the damage phones are doing to our kids. But a couple of years ago, this was kind of controversial. What about safety? What if there's a school shooting? And then

you had public safety officials and police coming out and saying it's actually more dangerous during an event like that to have kids on their phones and not listening to the people giving them instruction. So I can say this year at my son's school, it's taken hold this new rule of no phones and I asked how it's going. He goes, yeah, it's great. We're sitting around the lunchroom talking to each other. Imagine that. And they have their phones. They can keep them in their backpack if they want to. They just can't come out during the school day. And if it does come out, you get in trouble. So it's not the end of the world. We can do this. Put the phones away during school. And I think it's going to work. You're seeing it all over the place.

J-Mart, thanks so much. Coming up, Israel and the United States delivered a blow to Iran's nuclear program back in June. Our next guest, though, says the country could come back even stronger. The Atlantic's Graham Wood joins us to explain his new piece, The Neighbor from Hell. Morning Joe's coming right back. Second and five. Again, still all three timeouts, so plenty of run options available. for Syriani and Kevin Petullo, the outfits of four men. And they're on far away inside.

Sequin touchdown. Philadelphia on top. That is Sequin Barclay, then powering his way into the end zone, carrying the Eagles to the lead just before halftime last night. Quarterback Jalen Hertz rushed for a couple of touchdowns of his own. The reigning Super Bowl champs held off the Dallas Cowboys to kick off their title defense with a win in last night's regular season opener in Philly. On the other side of the ball, Cowboys star receiver, C.D. Lamb, seven catches,

110 yards, but failed to reel in a pair of big passes on the final drive for Dallas. The Eagles beat the Cowboys 24 to 20. The game, though, probably remembered for this bizarre moment before the first play of the game, Eagles defensive tackle Jalen Carter ejected for spitting on Cowboys quarterback, Dak Prescott. What are you doing? This is during an injury delay. after the opening kickoff. Video later showed Prescott spitting in the direction of Carter and the Eagles defense before Carter spit on him. After the game, Carter called his actions a mistake, promised it will not happen again.

NFL opening weekend continues tonight in Brazil, where the Kansas City Chiefs drive for an eighth consecutive win over the Los Angeles Chargers. So, Joe, kind of a weird game in Philly last night. You had a big lightning delay in the second half, push the game. late into the night. Not much happened in the second half. Three points scored between the two teams. Dallas certainly had a chance to win it there on that final drive. But we're watching Jalen Carter walk off the field before the first play going, what happened? And then NBC gets the replays spits right in the chest of Dak Prescott. Yeah, it's absolutely unbelievably. You've never seen

anything like this. I mean, I will say it's one of the things that I would fear might happen to a senior at the Belmead Country Club, if they ever reached one of Meacham's drop shot, they would find themselves, we would, they would quickly find themselves disintermediated from the rules and the etiquette and the niceties and the people and the players of Belmead and John Meacham. Joe, Joe, Joe, basically what we're talking about here is a chicken salad attack. You know, you got to figure out a way to use pomena cheese and chicken salad in kind of a Okay, well, again, these are the strange and peculiar ways of the Belmeat Country Club, which simple country lawyers like myself have no knowledge of.

But I will say this, John Lemire, if you spit at a quarterback before the beginning of your season opener, you're going to be ejected by the referees. And, you know, it really, I think it had an impact in the game because the Gallup, Dallas Cowboys were able to move the ball much better without one of the Eagles' best defensive players on the field. This is extraordinarily reckless, no excuse for it. He should get at least a two-game suspension from the NFL for this. In the first six seconds of the NFL's triumphant return,

we had a player blow out his knee and be out for the year, and now the Eagles star defensive linemen spit at the quarterback and get ejected. I agree. I think this won't be the only game he misses, and I believe if next week is a shoot-ball rematch, between the Eagles and the Chiefs, Carter likely won't play there. I mean, just ridiculous. He was apologetic afterwards.

There was a Dak Prescott apparently told Cowboys coaches later that, you know, he was simply talking to one of his teammates, realized he needed to spit on the grass, and Carter thought that was at him, and therefore Carter retaliated. I mean, just ridiculous, but you're right. I mean, the Cowboys were able to move the ball early. They stalled out in the second half. I think the Eagles defense, which already lost some players, might not be quite as fearsome as last year. You know, they certainly lost, missed Carter last night. But at the end of the day,

it's Saquan Barclay, and it's also Jalen Hertz. And the way he can run the ball, Willie, they can extend these drives. You know with the tush push, they're going to get every fourth and short. Eagles still very formidable and kind of a ragged game last night. Yeah, it was a weird game, but boy, the Eagles are going to be tough again this year. Jalen Hertz, he can do everything. Let's turn back to the tennis. We talked about a minute ago at the U.S. Open in Queens, American, Amanda Anisamova battling from a set down to beat Naomi Osaka in their semi-final match last night, reaching her second Grand Slam final in a row. The eighth-seeded Anisimova will now face the world's number one player, Arena Sabalanka, for the U.S. Open title. That's tomorrow. That

comes after Sabalanka defeated four-seated American Jessica Pagula in three sets early yesterday. That was a rematch of last year's final. The matchup for the men's final on Sunday will be decided. in a pair of semifinal matches beginning this afternoon. A couple of great ones too here, Caddy. Jokovic and Alcaraz, and then you've got Yonik Sinner. I mean, there's so much talk about Alcoraz

and Jokovic for good reason, but Sinner, meanwhile, is truly just steamrolling his way through this tournament. Yeah, I mean, that Jokovic, Alcaraz could easily be the final, right? In a normal time, that would be our final because they're both so good. But I haven't seen Sinner fault. I'd be watching

this. I watched obviously Wimbledon when I was back there, but I've been watching quite a lot of Sinner this year, too. He hasn't put a foot wrong. If it's going to be an Al-Qaraz-Sinner match-up again, it's hard to imagine it doesn't go sinner's way. He has that great playfulness. He's so calm, and he's just gets every shot right. He's been dominating this tournament.

Yeah, start to 3 o'clock this afternoon. It'll be a fun day out there in Queens. Still ahead this morning, Republican Senator Mitch McConnell appears to be raising concerns about President Trump's tariffs and foreign policy. We'll dig into his comments as he warns we are in the midst of one of the most dangerous period since World War II. Plus, we'll walk through the lawsuit. Washington, D.C. is filing against the Trump administration for deploying the National Guard

amid reports troops may be staying in the city for a few more months now. Morning Joe's coming right back. What a beautiful sunrise just before the top of the hour here in New York City. Republican Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky says we are in the midst of the most dangerous period since the Second World War. McConnell, who's set to retire next year, made the comment during a wide-ranging interview with the Lexington Herald leader raising the issues of foreign policy and tariffs without directly mentioning President Trump. The former Senate Majority Leader telling the paper, quote, there are certain similarities right now to the 30. Herbert Hoover signed the Smoot-Talty tariff bill in 1930, widely believed by historians and economists to have taken the Depression worldwide. Those who were totally anxious to stay out of all of what

was going on in Europe were called America First. Sound familiar? asked McConnell. McConnell then brought up how North Korea, China, Russia, and Iran all hate the United States, adding, when you talk about preparedness, we're not prepared like we should be. With regard to Ukraine, what we need to do is avoid the headline at the end of the war, Russia wins, America loses. It has huge worldwide implications. John Meacham, so I saw your ears perk up when you heard about the tariff acts of the late 1920s and early 1930s. But what do you make of McConnell's assessment here? Well, I think Senator McConnell has, this is not the first time. He's spoken out both implicitly and explicitly against the administration.

I think he believes it. And I think a lot of folks, perhaps on the center and the center left are not going to hear this. But Mitch McConnell is arguably the most important Senate leader in American history. He has, whether you agree or disagree with how he used his power when he was the majority leader, it was a remarkable exercise of it. And there are, I think he embodies a kind of Reaganite core to the old Republican Party that is very much an eclipse. And I think Senator McConnell came to the Senate in 84, I think in that big 49 state landslide. And I think for a lot of Republicans who are having a hard time remembering,

the shape of the modern party, what Senator McConnell's saying, should be a kind of summons back to the Reagan altar, if you will. No doubt about it. Historian, John Meacham, thank you so much for your insights, and please stay safe out there on the clay courts. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. Godspeed, John Meacham, Godspeed. Caddy Kay, there are a lot of Europeans. That actually, though, they may be loath to admit it, a lot of Europeans, a lot of our allies across the world, would read the former Senate Majority Leader's words and be reminded of the 30s.

It sounds all too familiar, the parallels with high U.S. tariffs and an American-first isolationism that leaves Europe and the rest of the world wondering if America is going to stand up. and be the protector of liberty, and it would be a force that pushes back against authoritarianism that's sweeping across Europe. And leaves Europeans wondering whether the anomaly in America actually was the period after the Second World War, when America led in world affairs and wasn't isolationist, when the isolationist tendency died down in this country and now seems to be re-emerging. Europeans, and I've spoken to senior EU officials who tell me, look, we are, are looking to alternatives, we are talking more to the Indians, we are talking to the

Brazilians, we're talking to the Canadians who want to reorient their supply chains. It was triggered by tariffs, the kind of urgency around it, and triggered by Ukraine as well. So you've got this kind of double factor of trade and security, which leaves Europeans wondering how much longer they'll be able to rely on America, even if Donald Trump leaves the political scene when Donald Trump. leaves the political scene because America seems to be less reliable than it was a few decades ago.