Morning Joe - Senate takes first steps toward ending the government shutdown

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

Senate takes first steps toward ending the government shutdown Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We're dealing with an invasive species by the name of Donald Trump. He is an historic president, however. Historically unpopular president. Why else? He's a species by the name of Donald Trump. I call to your governor. Why else did he feel the need to rig the election before even one vote was cast? That's just weakness.

Weakness masquerading as strength. That's Donald Trump. And he had a very bad night on Tuesday. And that is Gavin Newsome in Houston, Texas on Saturday for a rally with Texas Democrats. Gavin's gearing up. His visit came after California voters overwhelmingly approved a plan to redrawls congressional lines, a move directly targeting Texas's new congressional map. And of course, Gavin was the one who said to the governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, bring it on. You think you

can do it? We can do it bigger and we can do it better at one point in that speech saying, and I don't mess with Texas. He said, don't poke the bear. Meanwhile, on Capitol Hill, there were enough Senate Democrats siding with Republicans to pass a spending agreement that get in the longest government shut down in history that actually they passed a rule that would allow that vote to go to the floor. We'll talk about that. And also new indictments and another sports gambling scandal making headlines. This time, Major League Baseball, we're going to explain what the players are accused of doing.

Good morning and welcome the morning, Joe. it is Monday, November 10th. We've got a busy week ahead of us. With us, we've got co-host of our fourth hour staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, U.S. Special Correspondent for BBC News, and the host of The Restis Politics Podcast, Katty K. We have columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius, White House reporter for Axis Mark Caputo, and co-founder of Punch Bowl News, John Bresnahan. And of course, John Lemire overnight, a lot of newsbreaking about things other than the New England Patriots possibly becoming the best, if not one of the best teams in the NFL. I mean, they're looking good. The pats are back. But also, and this is just Democrats. I get it.

They have the best week that they've had in a year and a half. And then fear and loathing and the ringing of hands because they may reopen the government because, yes, there are some Democrats who understand that people are going hungry. And what have they done? They have found out and they have exposed a White House that is working overtime to give tax cuts to billion. at the same time, they're working overtime to take SNAP assistance, to take food assistance from working Americans. And this is exposed just how much the Republican Party hates the idea of helping working Americans, helping middle class Americans who are struggling with

health care. So you take that and you take the massive wind. that Democrats had this past week, massive, historic in some ways, whereas Steve Bannon said, Democrats erased 10 years of Republican gains in one night. And why did that happen? Donald Trump said it happened because of the government shut down. So all this fear and loathing and all this whining, I wish Democrats for once, just once could take a win, and then understand the Republicans, they were never going to help working Americans. They learned that through this process. So you know who else learned that through this process?

The American voter. Donald Trump was exposed and the administration was exposed. And Republicans were exposed as the party that fought like hell. They give tax cuts to billionaires, to multinational corporations, to the richest of the rich. just last week, they were trying to extend those tax cuts to even more billionaires to give them even bigger tax cuts. At the same time, they were fighting like hell to stop working Americans from getting basic food assistance. And just a helping hand, just a little helping hand

with our health care costs. So, yeah, the government shutdown is going to come to an end. But the reality of what this Republican Party stands for today, the reality of what Donald Trump was fighting for this past week, that will stay with voters for years to come. Yeah, we will return to our top story, Drake May, a little later in the morning. But right now, in terms of the shutdown, it's interesting to see how this is being received. Because I think we have to look at it in two different ways. There's the short-term impact and the long-term impact. And like last night, a lot of Democrats deeply unhappy by what happened last night, a sense, particularly from the progressive wing, but not entirely, that this is a weird moment to cave.

The Democrats had momentum coming off of the election night win. Polls only getting worse for President Trump and the Republicans, they're taking squarely taking the blame here. There's some who really want to push Democrats to push the advantage, bargain harder, get a better deal. And it's true, they did not get a guarantee to present. those Obamacare subsidies. There are going to be a vote later next month, it looks like, but not a guarantee that it will happen. But there are some good things that did come of this deal, Joe. To your point, obviously, government workers are going to start getting paid again. Snap benefits are going to be restored. There's going to be a moratorium on layoffs,

the federal workforce and the restoration of those who have lost their jobs. And I think for Democrats, short-term this frustration, but long-term, yes, they have used this shutdown to underscore the point you just made. Republicans are out of touch. Republicans don't care about the little guy. Republicans care about the wealthy and the tax cuts for the rich and building ballrooms and the like. We've been good. We can go down the list. So I think that's where we are right now. There's a lot of sort of unhappiness in the party last night. Why did we blink now? So many people said to me, I mean, I thought was blowing up last night with unhappy Democrats. But I think those who like the deal say, look, we need to take a step back. We're playing more of a long game. Listen, I understand. I understand people who are intense on the left, just like when I was in Congress, I understood people who were intense on the right about government shutdowns and keeping them going forever and ever and ever. I also understand, though, when you have people, let me go to John Bresnahan, because John was there with me during our government shutdowns back in the 1990s. John, you always have people like me, you always have the extremists in Congress raising their hands and going, the American voters will remember this forever. They will remember, they will see that we're doing.

No, it's just not true. It's not true. We used, as you know, in 95 and 96, even though we lost those shutdowns in the short term, we used those shutdowns to define the Republican Party as the party of balanced budgets. We all took it. We all took it home. And yeah, Bill Clinton won the 96 campaign, but we won Congress 96, 98, 2000, 2000, I mean, we stayed in power for a decade, and every Republican went out there, said, we balanced budgets, and we did it four years in a row for the first time in a generation. Now, that's the first time in 100 years. But we use that government shutdown,

to frame what we were the next decade. And I'm not asking you as a reporter to get involved in this. I'm asking, though, just a report on how government shutdowns work. And when people are running around with their hair and fire on the left, saying, oh, this is the end of the Democratic Party, they should look to last Tuesday and looked at next year and understand that these government shutdowns, more than anything else, they define where the parties stand. And that stays in cement through the next election.

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. I do think there's a danger here. There could be another shutdown in January. We'll get to that. But I think with a shutdown, what you have to do is you have to, as a leader or leaders, you walk your party into a very extreme position. And then you cut a deal as a leaders to go back to the center or move back toward the center, you know, toward a compromise, you know, a government, a bipartisan deal.

and you've left your people can't make that pivot as quickly as you can. And I think that's what we're seeing here. This was the Democrats, by all measures, have won this shutdown, quote unquote. But you're 40 days into it. Where's your end game? I mean, at some point, like you said in your opening, you got to declare victory and just, you know, and move on because this wasn't going to end. You know, what happens if it ends next week or two weeks? It's not going to end any differently.

Right. And, you know, Caddy, we also have a couple things happening right now. What we saw this past week, what we saw yesterday was the news of Donald Trump ordering his administration to do everything to keep food assistance from working class and middle class Americans. His own people. Working like hell. It was a screaming headlines. He was ordering states. Oh, you states that think you can help working Americans and red state. America, stop. Don't do it. He did everything he could to make sure no food assistance get to those Americans who needed it the most. Again, a lot of those people who voted for him. What's the second part of this? Absolute chaos in airports. Now, if these Democrats on the left really want to take a chance, and I mean they really want to take a chance on this turning ugly against them, then continue the chaos that we saw at the end of last week and through this weekend, continue that through Thanksgiving, are moving up to Thanksgiving. It gets ugly and it gets unpredictable. Yeah, this wasn't, this was not a perfect ideological win.

The battle for, for, for, for healthcare justice, that continues. But again, it continues with this debate framed, the whole world knows where the Republican Party since. They don't care that health care premiums continue to explode. Just ask MTG. They don't care about anything, it seems, out of the White House, except for cutting taxes for the richest of the richest of the rich. And again, last week they announced more of these cuts. They don't care about working Americans. They care, again, about granting clemency to felons. So, all right, that's a pretty good place for Democrats to be as they move forward and debate where this country goes over the next year. Yeah, when I, yesterday I, I booked my son

a ticket by train as a backup for Thanksgiving, paid an extraordinary amount of money to get one of the very last train tickets from Boston to D.C. And that's when I thought, you know what, this is going to have to change because there are millions of Americans who are making similar backup plans for Thanksgiving and whose Thanksgiving is going to be ruined and we're only two weeks away. So here's where things stand this morning. As John suggested, it's all moving pretty fast. In a 60 to 40 vote, a group of moderate Democrats broke from their party and voted with Republicans on legislation to fund the government and hold a later vote on extending Affordable Care Act tax credits that expire on January 1st. The deal includes a mini

package of appropriation bills that fund military construction, veterans affairs, the Department of agriculture and the legislative branch, as well as a stopgap funding measure that ensures the full government will remain open until at least the end of January 2026. The bill also includes language to undo federal layoffs imposed by the Trump administration during the shutdown, which began on October 1st. The agreement does not guarantee health care subsidies will be extended as Democrats have demanded for the entirety of the shutdown. And that, of course, is what's angering many in the party who say that Americans want them to continue the fight. Some of the senators who voted with Republicans spoke out about that decision last night.

We were in a situation where SNAP recipients were suffering, and there was no guarantee we would ever get to an ACA solution. Now we've got robust SNAP funding and a guaranteed vote, not a guaranteed outcome, but a guaranteed vote on ACA tax credits. I understand that not all of my Democratic colleagues are satisfied. with this agreement. But waiting another week or another month wouldn't deliver a better outcome. It would only mean more harm for families in New Hampshire and all across the country. The sum is we are closer to the possibility of work on the ACA tax credits for the people of this country than we were yesterday and then we were a week ago, two weeks ago, or a month ago. So this agreement tonight is a win for the American people.

And it's a big news morning on Morning Joe. Those three senators will all be our guests coming up on the program ahead this morning. David, clearly there are some Democrats who are angry who feel that their victory on Tuesday last week gave them momentum and that they should still be fighting. How do you see this playing out as a division within the? the party, is it the moderates who are now going to chalk this up as a win and a sensible thing to do for Americans who are suffering, or is it the more progressives who are going to say, actually, we gave up something to the Trump administration like we always do? I think, Katty, this is going to be a preview of the kind of moderate progressive arguments

that will continue. This is a party that is split. It would be nice if the progressives could join with the moderates in taking the win, in saying, we're the party that in the end cares whether people get their benefits, whether airports are open, whether people can fly home for Thanksgiving. Republicans may be prepared to keep the government closed to do that. We're not. We just, we don't do that as Democrats. That would be a powerful line, be a way to take the win, as Joe said at the beginning.

to me one lesson to make the obvious point of what we've been through is that shutting down the government isn't a very good way to get benefits for the American people. Causing harm for the very people that you want to help who are the ones affected by the shutdown isn't in the long run a very sustainable strategy. So I hope the democratic internal fighting and bickering won't be so loud that that will become the real afterstory, as opposed to the country getting back to work, the votes ahead to extend Obamacare subsidies, all the things that, in theory, are part of this compromise. You know, David, is so right. And Mark Caputo, I was talking earlier about what Democrats should say and what Democrats got out of this shutdown, many would be wise to read your piece in Axis

that talks about the many contradictions of Donald Trump during the government shutdown, and they were quite striking. Are you listing one after another? Tell us about it. Well, I think the main one that we've discussed here is just snap. It's hard to portray yourself as a defender of the working man, the working person, trying to help people get ahead, and then take the measures that he did with SNAP. And that's a very sort of concrete food stamp issue, like it's a bread and butter issue. There's also an optics issue.

It's hard to talk about how you're fighting for the average American, but at the same time taking a number of trips to South Florida. Obviously, I live in South Florida. I don't know diss on South Florida. having a great Gatsby-themed party at Mar-a-Lago. And the sort of contradiction there between saying, I'm fighting for the working guy, and at the same time living in this sort of Gatsby-like, roaring 20s, gilded age opulence is quite a contradiction in and of itself.

And if you look at the polling, about October 27th, essentially four weeks to the day that the shutdown began, Trump's disapproval rises and his approval falls. So there's a spike in his net disapproval rating that rises. And the combination of these sort of factors that were weighing on Trump, the fact that in the eyes of some of his own advisors, now advisors who aren't in the White House and the White House, they'll never admit this even off the record, the president was sort of AWOL on the shutdown for a while and thinking if he just held the position, it could go away.

But after he got back from Asia, he realized this isn't going away. and Democrats surprised the White House. They surprised Republicans by sticking to their guns for so long on the shutdown. And that's when you started to hear Trump really roar to life. He started to harangue the senators, the Republican conference, and say, you need to change the filibuster. We've got the votes. The only reason the shutdown has occurred is because of Democrats. And then he began talking more and more about actually just undoing the entire ACA.

And the combination of those things, I think, finally brought Democrats to the table. Again, those progressives, and I've, John Lemire, I've always said the progressives were loyal, very loyal to the Democratic Party through Joe Biden's term, and they held their tongue. And I, again, I understand, John, that the disappointment that many of them feel, because again, I felt it on the right when I was in Congress and we were pushing hard to. keep the government closed, you know, to balance a budget. But again, we opened it back up and we had things framed. I will say, you listen to what Mark Caputo said. Donald Trump's approval rating, according to CNN poll at an all-time high, his approval rating dipping into the 30s in a lot of polls during the government shutdown. During the government shut down the economic people who support the direction of his economic policies in four out of

five polls we showed last week. Again, going down into the 30s. And then, of course, the election last week, which was historic in New Jersey. People thought Mikey Cheryl was going to win by one or two points. She ended up winning by a dozen points. And Democrats were the first party to win the governorship three times in a row there since the early 1960s, I believe it was. And you just keep going down the list. You also did have, you know, as far the filibuster goes, you also saw the Senate Republicans breaking with Donald Trump. He comes to the hill. He orders them to end the filibuster. I wonder how that would have gone three to six months ago. And certainly before the government shutdown. What does John Thune say? Quote, that ain't how.

happening. And you can keep going down the list. But I just, I want all Republicans and Democrats to hear the contrast of what was happening at the end of last week. And again, this government shut down. Democrats left, center, and right should focus on how the debate has been framed moving forward for the next year to two to four years. I saw it happen in my time. It's going to happen here. At the same time, Donald Trump was working around the clock to stop food assistance to working Americans. This was in the New York Times, that the administration was quietly giving more massive tax cuts to multinational corporations, billionaires, real estate tycoons, and the richest of the rich. And they were doing that, my words here, while fighting tooth and nail every day to block food

from the poorest of God's creatures. And the New York Times story, which, let me get the date here, from November 8th, November 8th headline how the Trump administration is giving even more tax breaks to the wealthy. That news breaking the same time. And we're talking about real estate tycoons, crypto tycoons, multinational corporations. tax monopolists, he was fighting to give more tax breaks to those people while stopping food assistance to working Americans in Red State America, while fighting like hell to even give a helping hand, all Republicans, to give a helping hand to people who desperately need help with exploding

health care costs. They just weren't doing it. They were, helping the rich and saying basically the hell with a lot of the people who voted for them. I think that's a pretty good choice for working in middle class Americans to make. And that happened because of the government shut down. Yeah, I think it might have even been like back-to-back push alerts from the New York Times. Those two stories you just highlighted about the Trump administration ordering states do not pay SNAP benefits. Do not try to find a way around this. will withhold more federal funding from you if you do, a threat, and that, that the tax breaks

for the rich and the one big, beautiful bill simply weren't enough. So now they're finding other ways to undo some of what the Biden administration put in place back in 2022, which was simply to make sure that wealthiest Americans and wealthiest corporations pay at least a little bit of federal income tax, a federal taxes. And here, Trump and his team trying to say, no, we can't have that either. So Mark Caputo, you know, I've certainly wrote, we've been writing on this last couple weeks as have you about just how MIA Trump has been in the shutdown. Some ways for good reason, right? He had obviously foreign affairs, a couple international trips. We get that. But he also seemed to focus on other things. Even yesterday, as news of this deal was starting to come together,

you know, and airports across the country are in chaos, we have President Trump using taxpayer money to fly Air Force one low over Washington Commander Stadium so he could then make an appearance at the game. And for his trouble, he got booed and pood very loudly. But it just, it's sort of one of those moments where he and his party, to Joe's point, just seemed really out of touch. Like they've got their eye not on what was, we should not forget, their central promise of the 2024 campaign. Bring prices down for the average American. Take care of those working class, lower middle class, MAGA voters. And it's he's done quite the opposite.

There's two ways I would look at his lack of attention to the degree to which he lacked attention on this issue, which is one, it's just Trump. He likes to talk about lots of things and he doesn't have a lot of message discipline. The second, though, when I've talked to Trump advisors, is that Trump himself doesn't want to talk about the economy too much because he knows part of it is bad.

Now, not all of it is, but part of it is. He wants to talk about the good parts and not the bad parts. And he's been very concerned about having a Bidonomics moment. That is, Donald Trump doesn't want to go out there and start touting, hey, Trumpinomics and all is great when things aren't really great for all. And knowing that that will have a negative effect on the perception of the way in which he talks about these things. Now, that said, Trump is doing that anyway, because after Tuesday, after the election, after the sort of wipe out of Republicans, there has been, in the words of one Trump advisor,

are touching of the hot stove and a realization like, okay, we need to sharpen up and tighten up. Now, whether the president does that or not is a separate matter, because whether it was his campaign, his prior White House, or this White House, there's Donald Trump, and then there's his operation. And sometimes the two don't always mesh up perfectly. So, John, you said something earlier that got my ears pricked up, and that is this kind of groundhog sense that we may be back here in January again. Do you think that's really possible and what would it mean for both parties, given the resolution this time around? Yeah, absolutely could happen.

I mean, Joe went through this. There was two shutdowns in 95 and 96. There was a, so, you know, this is absolutely possible. What's going to happen now is this week will play out. It will play out in slow motion, but the Senate should take up, should try and finish up today on this government reopened, the stop-gip funding bill and these appropriations bills, then it'll be the House's term if these House members can get back to Washington. But then they're going to go and try and negotiate on government funding. They still have to fund the government for all of, you know, FY 2026 until

next year. And that funding will run out at January 30th under this agreement. And you could very well see another shutdown. Democrats could, you know, which, what shape is because Chuck Schumer going to be in at the end of January? If he needs. to. He could push Senate Democrats toward that again. You know, this is, this is a long way from being settled. And Senator Shaheen even ran the clip before she

said this. We've, you know, January 30 if it's out there, this is not a guarantee that there won't be another shut there. All right, co-founder of Punchbowl news, John Bresnahan, with that happy news for you this morning. Thank you, John. And White

House reporter for access, Mark Caputo. Thank you so much. And great reporting from Both of you, and again, on the contradictions of this shutdown coming from the White House. And I would just say in closing, Democrats need to take the win. They just do. I mean, again, I know this from past experience. There's going to be another fight coming up at the end of January. But you look at how this debate has been framed. Democrats couldn't be getting out of this in better shape, especially after the historic victories this last week. So I know a lot of people are going to try to be posing so they can look tougher for their presidential run in 2028, but they have

2026 to worry about for the entire Democratic Party. And Democratic voters are going to be seeing who stays united and who tears the party apart. Still out on Morning Joe, House Democrats are releasing stunning whistleblower revelations about the special treatment afforded to Jeffrey Epstein's confidant Galane Maxwell. Kandelion is going to join us to break it down and, man, she loves her new digs. And a reminder, if you're feeling blue this morning, all that can change, your back swing can improve. As I've said before about our podcast, you're going to have that, that, that, that, that, that

Mail pattern baldness reversed. All you have to do is sign up for our relaunched newsletter. The tea spilled by Morning Joe today. We are going to be looking at Gavin Newsom gearing up on whether he could be the Democrats' next nominee in 2028. We'll have that story and a lot more. Plus, response to the government opening back up, you can use your phone to scan the QR code. that's that thing at the bottom of the screen or go to msnbc.com slash the tea spilled by morning jell. We will be right back.

David Ignatius, America lost, and of course, more personally, you lost your father last week. I'd love for you to talk about him. But before you do, I just want our viewers to just hear a little bit about the remarkable life. He lived. He was the son of immigrants. I think his father sold rugs. His mother was a piano player. He was going to go to Harvard Business School.

And then Pearl Harbor happened. So he enlisted. And he served in the Philippines. It's on the aircraft carrier, Manila Bay. When it was attacked, they fought to save it. And it continued fighting in the war when he got back. He did many things, but of course, most notably was secretary of the Navy and continued to serve. And he served for the Kennedy administration, served in the Johnson administration.

And had the USS Paul Ignatius named in his honor, went on to be president of the Washington Post, and continued to serve his country proudly for decades to come. He was a great American, a great patriot. And I saw it firsthand with you, a great father, and you, a wonderful, loving, devoted son. Talk about your dad. So, Joe, it's so wonderful to see those pictures on the screen. My dad loved this show until last week when he was beginning to fail. He was a faithful watcher. He'd get up in the morning. That's how he started his day. He had an amazing life that stretched across the 20th century. He did fight in combat in World War II. You remember, Joe, when you were giving a presentation on President Truman, he'd written a wonderful book and my dad was in the audience at the Washington National Cathedral and he stood up and a typical said, I don't need a microphone, which he didn't, and just

shouted. He boomed out that he had been in Harvard Yard on the day that George Marshall announced the Marshall Plan. He'd been part of that piece of history, too, as he was part of the Kennedy administration. He came to government in 1961 and stayed on through the difficulty of the Vietnam War. Through all that, my dad just never lost his belief in public service. And although he wasn't in any way a partisan man, it wouldn't be fair to him. If I didn't say that what troubled him in the last few years was that the things that he believed in most had struggled for, through his career, public service, helping the country get through its troubles, the independence and professionalism of the military, that those things were suffering, that this was a time

when the country was coming apart, not together. And I think in his last years, that bothered him a lot. The final thing to say about my dad, as I've heard from people, really many, many hundreds of people after his death on Thursday. The thing that people keep citing, aren't these resume virtues. He had this position. He did that. But something different, which was a quality he had, yes, strength, but also a kind of humility and generosity. And that those are really the things that people remember, not just about him, but about all the people of that generation. We call it the greatest generation for a reason. It wasn't just that they were brave and went to war, but they had a decency and their lives were centered in family and values. And I just was lucky to have had my dad

as long as I did. So thanks for the chance to talk about him. An extraordinary, extraordinary man. And what a legacy he leaves behind. It's a legacy that we all should aspire to try to meet, even if that's not possible. And Caddy Kay, it was something. He even passed 100 when David, John Meacham, and I were in the National Cathedral. And I went on waxing, trying to wax eloquently about the decision to begin the Truman doctrine. I was talking about General Marshall at Harvard.

And Paul Ignatius stood up. And again, I don't need a microphone. And with his booming voice, which rained from the rafters of the National Cathedral, he said, I was there when Marshall announced this. And let me tell you what really happened. It was a wonderful moment. And he lived a remarkable life. and America was much better because David Ignatius lived that life here among us. Yeah, humble and generous.

I think that's the best tribute that anyone could pay to us. And even when your father dies, David, at the age of 104, it turns out we're never really old enough to lose our parents. So my thoughts got out to you. And Joe said something that I think is very worth saying. You were a wonderful son to your father. And the way you talked about him when I saw you on set or offset was always so heart-worned. So thank you for sharing those thoughts with us this morning, David. Thanks to everybody for this moment.

There is no way to turn from thinking about David's lovely father to back to. We're going to make that turn anyway. And it's about Gilae Maxwell, the co-conspirator of late convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. She's said to be preparing a commutation application as she allegedly receives concierge-style treatment while serving a 20-year sentence stemming from child sex trafficking charges. That is according to a new whistleblower document obtained by House Judiciary Democrats

listing preferential like customized hand-delivered meals and time to play with service dogs in training. Lemire clearly a lot happening, and this is moving very fast, and it's also going to be something that's going to get a lot of criticism, I imagine. I would say so. So this new information is prompting the top

Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland, to send a letter to President Trump sharply criticizing Maxwell's alleged perks and plea for a pardon. Raskin wrote in part this, you should not grant any form of clemency to this convicted and unrepentant sex offender. Your administration should not be providing her with room service, with puppies to play with, with federal law enforcement officials waiting on her every need or with any special treatment or institutional privilege at all. For more, let's bring in MSNBC Justice and Intelligence reporter Ken Delaunian. Ken, it's just sort of shocking to, again, read these details.

We know so much of how the Trump administration has handled the Epstein matter and handled Delane Maxwell his raised eyebrows, to put it mildly. but to get such special treatment, no wonder so many, frankly on both sides, but particularly Congress and Raskin here, really sounding the alarm. Yeah, that's right, Jonathan. Good morning. This letter says that she is being weighted on hand and foot in the minimum security prison camp where she is right now in Brian, Texas.

And let's remember, she was moved to this prison camp after she sat down for a bizarre and unusual interview with the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, Donald Trump's former defense lawyer, where he debriefed her about the Epstein case, even though he had no background in that case, over two days. And she said, we know during the interview, because we have a transcript of it, that she never saw Donald Trump behaving inappropriately around Jeffrey Epstein and those women while all of that was going on. And then after that interview, she was whisked from a low-security prison in Florida, which is, it sounds, low security sounds nice, but it really isn't. It's still a prison to a prison camp, a club fed style facility in Texas. And now we're learning from House

Democrats, we're talking to whistleblowers and looking at documents, that she is getting all sorts of special privileges in this facility, courtesy of the warden. The warden is making this happen, according to these revelations. She's getting, according to this letter, access to special meals delivered to herself. As you said, access to a service dog, a puppy. that other inmates don't have access to. She gets access to a special exercise area, private exercise area, according to this letter. And visitors, relatives, and family members are given special treatment to whisked into the facility outside of the normal parameters, according to this letter.

They are allowed to bring in computers, which Raskin said, risks her having access, unmonitored access to the outside world, which is something that federal inmates don't get. So this is just stunning. We haven't had a chance to try to reach out to the federal prison system during the shutdown. They're hard to reach right now. But I'll be interested to see what they say, what the warden says, if anything, in response to this. Because this is very serious allegations of what looks like, frankly, corruption uncovered here by House Democrats, guys. Yeah, corruption perhaps so.

Ken, let's now turn to some news that broke from the middle of the night. President Trump has issued sweeping. sweeping pardons for several key allies who backed his effort to subvert the 2020 election results. That's according to the president's so-called clemencies czar, Justice Department partner attorney Ed Martin, who released a list on social media late last night that includes the names of 77 people who received pardons. They include Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows, John Eastman, Kenneth Cheesbrough, Boris Epstein, and Sidney Powell, among others. political points out that the pardons are largely symbolic because none of those identified were charged with any federal crimes. Additionally, the document posted online is also undated. So it's not clear

exactly when President Trump signed it. The pardon language explicitly states it does not apply to Trump himself. The White House and Justice Department did not immediately respond to requests for comments. So Ken, there's a lot to sift through here. We know that President Trump has stacked his administration with some of those previous 2020 election deniers, those who claim falsely that he won the election. And symbolic or not, this is another symbol here that he's simply not going to play by the rules and that these are people who he is yet another example in this administration where he has taken, use the powers of government to punish his foes, and in this case, reward his friends, those who do his bidding.

I would say it's a bit more than symbolic, Jonathan, in the sense that some of these people were clearly considered unindicted co-conspirators by Jack Smith in the investigation of the false elector scheme that resulted in the indictment of Donald Trump. And they were certainly at risk of being charged federally. Now, of course, that was never going to happen during this administration, and there's a statute of limitations problem. But often there are ways to get around statutes of limitations. And so some of these people had some real risk of being charged criminally in the false elector scheme if a Democrat or someone who's not like-minded with Donald Trump becomes the next president and controls the Justice Department. So this is a big deal.

And it's just a continuation of what is happening within the Trump administration in terms of pardoning people who have committed very serious offenses. In this case, haven't been charged with offenses, but are believed by many people to have engaged in misconduct. And just, it's about the political whims of Donald Trump. It's about who he likes and who he wants to help. And if you believe a certain way that was in his interest, you're liable for a pardon, whether it's Jelaine Maxwell or people who engaged in this false elector scheme. Now, the thing to remember is there are still, there were state attorneys general investigations

into various false elector schemes around the country. It's unclear exactly what's happening with those, but these pardons, of course, would not apply to state charges. All right, MSNBC, Justice and Intelligence supporter. Ken Delaney, and thank you so much. Greatly appreciate it, as always, and still ahead. We're going to find out what teams the Morning Joe computer picked for this week's NFL power rankings.

Pablo Toy joins us with bated breath straight ahead. Thank you. Pablo Tori joins us with bated breath straight ahead. Hey, welcome back to the morning chat with sex pistols blaring in your ears at 6.52 a.m. as Manhattan wakes up. We're going to get to NFL football in a moment, but first what most would consider the world's real football. By that, I mean, football. We're joined by NBC sports soccer analyst and founder of Men and Blazers Media Network, Roger Bennett. This Men and Blazers Media Network has grown so large. They're now buying up pharmaceutical companies.

They have their eye on Dow Chemical. It's just getting bigger and bigger by the moment. Roger, this weekend, I sit down and I'm going to watch Liverpool play Man City. Now, mind you, for the uninitiated, Liverpool has owned Man City to the degree to the massive degree that Roger Bennett owned every flock of Seagull's album and poster, and he put it up, wallpapered his Liverpool manse. That is how much. I think eight out of nine of the past matches, Liverpool has owned Man City.

But as John Lennon would sing, the dream is over, Roger Bennett. The dream is over. Oh, Joe, guilty on the flock of seagulls, but let's look at what your Liverpool Football Club did. I mean, this was amazing. This is a big game. People, this is Abu Dhabio, Manchester City. Against your Boston Red Sox zone, Liverpool. Really a clash of Titans. As Joe said, these two teams have won the last eight Premier League titles besie them. They're oddly vulnerable this season. And City opened the scoring to Erling Harland. This man is essentially chat GPT and cleats. Like witnessing an early career,

Shaquille O'Neal enter the NBA and smash all those backboards. Liverpool thought they had an immediate equaliser, but Virgil Van Dyke ruled off for offside. Proof, you know, if you need it, life's cruel. Football, it's crueler. Because City went right down and got the second goal,

off a deflection from that same poor man, Virgil Van Dyke. Only agony on that. this day. A city killed off the game. Look at this goal, people. If you don't like football, see what you're missing. Jeremy Ducco cuts inside. This goal should win. The Pulitzer Prize for poetry. Manchester City win 3-0. They are the one who knocks. You Liverpool, Joe, on this day, worse than the federal aviation disruptions. Yes, it was horrible. I mean, and you know, as Jackson Lamb said to Young River Cartwright, it's the

not the hope that kills you it's the knowledge that is the hope that kills you that kills you he also said that trying to understand football is like trying to explain denmark to a dog this is arsenal football conceding their first goal in over 13 hours of football they look like they're on the ropes they're in cold town little plucky sunderland but the gun has equalized thought they'd won it when little the andro trussard went full pool schemes on the ball three feet high and rising for 95th minute this is a lovely moment here Sundland

pugnacious audacious tenacious Brian Brobie what a name I don't like to be hyperbolic but this moment a shocking sight is when the Berlin Wall fell

Arsenal draw 2-2 4 points clear at the top of the table here's the last one Tottenham Manchester United 91st minute this is lovely little Rich Arleson

thinks he scored the winner the winner in the last second shirt off on the field crying with wonder but hold on not too fast 96 minute manchester united cue ecstasy a mood swing classic get an equalizer ultimate life proof joke you know what they say in football and on live television never take your shirt off too early yeah exactly and i must say roger as we look at arsenal and city near the top. Chelsea, a respectable third and then Sunderland fourth. You manage to find the best Jackson Lamb quote from all the seasons yet.

Trying to explain this to you, the lot of you is like trying to explain the concept of Denmark to a dog. Oh, Jay, when you walk to a storm, hold your head up high and don't be afraid of the dog. That's my advice to Gabe. Godspeed, big, big love. Godspeed, big, big love to you, as always, Roger. That's the founder and CEO of Men and Blazers Media Network, now working on their hostile takeover of Dow Chemical, Roger Bennett. Thank you so much.