Morning Joe - Trump dissatisfied with Iran's plan to reopen Strait of Hormuz: NYT

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

Trump dissatisfied with Iran's plan to reopen Strait of Hormuz: NYT To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We'll be. We'll be it. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. We have a lot to cover on this Tuesday, April 28th. Prosecutors say the man who stormed a security checkpoint on Saturday was trying to assassinate President Trump. We'll have the latest fallout from the shooting at the White House Correspondence dinner. Also ahead, Vice President J.D. Vance says the U.S. military is burning through its arsenal way too fast. And the Pentagon may not be telling the the president what he needs to know about the war in Iran will have the latest new reporting from the Atlantic. It all comes as King Charles works to repair the UK's relationship with America amid tensions over that war and other economic and political challenges. It's also late-night TV that has the president's attention lately, namely a Jimmy Kimmel joke last week involving the First Lady. We'll dive into that just ahead. Along with Joe Willie and me,

we have the co-host of our 9-am hour, staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, co-host of the rest is politics, podcast, the BBC's Caddy Kay, and senior writer at the dispatch, and a columnist at Bloomberg opinion, David Drucker is with us.

So let's see, which one, I don't know, who among the group was hanging out with British royalty, would be invited, because I know I got invited to my sons having a barbecue this weekend for parents. All the parents get invited to that. Yeah. Yeah.

And I know that Lamere got invited to a kids 12 under hockey match. That's good. Let's see. Drucker, Willie, Caddy. Were you invited to hang out with royalty in presidents yesterday? spent the afternoon hanging out with royalty yesterday as one does. And guess, and you, guess what? Didn't you get rid of us 250 years ago?

Because that was not evident yesterday. It was packed with Ted Cruz, Howard Lucknick, fawning over royals yesterday. And this kind of slight feeling they wanted us back again. Anyway, it was great. It was a beautiful afternoon. The embassy did a lovely job. The king and queen were there.

I got to see the back of the king's head up close and personal. He didn't somehow start to say hello, but it was lovely. Good start. Well, give us some reporting. Give us some reporting other than American politicians and Americans fawning over British royalty. And really just just in general, Caddy, which of course, my sort of avatar for Twitter for a decade has been Queen Elizabeth too. So I'm hardly one to throw stones on that front. but Americans still seem to love the royalty.

What happened yesterday there? Well, certainly, I mean, it was, I think there were about three or four hundred people on the embassy lawn. Most of them Americans, a lot of American politicians and cabinet members, the Speaker of the House was there, Mike Johnson was there, who had come to see the king and queen. And all, obviously, the story is that the relationship is not at a great place at the moment. I did ask Ted Cruz about that. I asked Senator Cruz, you know, what was the problem in the relationship between, the UK and Britain at the moment.

He pointed to the Iran War, and I said, well, are there any other issues? And he said, yes, it's a problem of lack of freedom of speech in the UK where you can get thrown into prison for a tweet. And America is going to become like Britain if we don't watch out. And that pains me. And then he stood in line for an hour to shake the hand of the monarch, of the country that he is worried about America becoming like. I will say, Willie.

Now, I wish that someone, Willie, other than Ted Cruz, had said that because I will give Senator Cruz credit that when everybody else was calling for the firing of Jimmy Kimmel last time, it was Ted Cruz who warned Brendan Carr and warned Republicans not to stifle free speech. I must say, most of the other Republicans are just raging hypocrites on this because they tried to get people fired for even tweeting. you know, about Charlie Kirk's tragic death. And it was like, you know, witch hunts for, you know, again, the very things that they rightly hated on the far left for squelching speech and thought and everything else. So many of them are doing right now. So, but that said, it's a special relationship between the U.S. and Britain.

And let's hope that, you know, let's hope this meeting does something to bring it back together. And so that's what Queen Elizabeth II did for over 50 years. Yeah, and fascinating, too, that we're going to hear from Congressman Rokana in just a few minutes on this show about bringing Epstein survivors to the King's speech, which in the UK, there has been, frankly, more accountability around the Epstein files than there has been in the United States. So we'll hear about some of that contrast as well. I think as close, Joe, as I got to the King, was playing golf on Saturday in a driving sideways rain when it was 42 degrees. It felt like the British Open. It was like, you're out there at a Cree or something like that.

So that's as close as I'll ever get to a king. Yeah, I think you're right. But of course, crazily, if you were, what, three under par that day, Willie? I was. Yeah, yes. Yeah, broke the course record. And you went to Burger King. And I went to Burger King and I got one of those crowns.

You know, have it you, wait, and I put the crown on. And so it's about as close as I'll ever get to royalty, baby. All right. Wait, hold on, I just got to ask. Did Alex put that in your ear? Yes. I knew he did because I was about to say, that's Mika, really more tuned into pop culture than usual.

And then Alex, good job. Yeah. Yeah. Here's what's funny about Joe. I believed you actually went to Burger King, knowing you. I thought you hit the drive-through on Saturday. I genuinely was curious about what you had. I love Burger King, and I've always loved Burger King. I love Wendy's. I love Nickdungs. I love all of them. I will say steak shacks have been appearing a lot more where I live. And so I will say I've been going to Steakshack a lot more. lately, but I'm still, you're never going to uncrown the two kings, the royalty, the two dukes of hamburgers. And you know what they are, Crystal and Waterburger. And that White Castle?

My kingdom and my Burger King crown for a Crystal or a Wada burger. That sack of burgers from Crystal is nice. Steak and shake or shake shack? those two as well, Joe. Okay. All right, you two are a waste of time. I'm moving on to the news. President Trump appears unlikely to accept Iran's latest proposal to end the war. Tehran's offer includes reopening the Strait of Hormuz while requiring the U.S. to lift its naval blockade of Iranian ports and setting aside questions about the country's nuclear program for later negotiations.

The New York Times cites multiple people briefed on discreet. discussions in the White House situation room yesterday who say the president has told advisors he is not satisfied with that proposal. The paper goes on to report. It is not clear precisely why Trump is skeptical of the offer, but he has repeatedly insisted that Iran cannot have nuclear weapons. That is a sentiment Secretary of State Marco Rubio echoed in an interview yesterday on Fox News. Do you believe the Iranians are serious about making a deal? Iranians are serious to be getting themselves out of the mess that they're in. So, yeah, I think they're serious about figuring out how can they buy themselves more time.

We can't let them get away with their very good negotiators, the very experienced negotiators. And we have to ensure that any deal that has made, any agreement that is made, is one that definitively prevents them from sprinting towards a nuclear weapon at any point. Yeah, I mean, if you're not opening the straits, John Lemire, and you're not taking care of the nuclear program, I mean, Donald Trump, based on past statements, has about as much of a chance of accepting that deal as, oh, I don't know, Alex Cora has in throwing John Henry, his next surprise birthday party. I just had to get that in. That's not going to happen. And I've got to say, too, you know, project forward.

Let's say the president takes a bad deal. Let's say that they end up reopening the straits where Iran has a better deal, actually, than they had. which you're going to have regardless. They just are. They're going to take this opportunity to actually be in better economic shape after this war than before this war that was supposed to topple of the regime. Seems to me the one thing that conservatives cannot stand for. The one thing, you know, that would drive me crazy as an observer of how Iran and the United States have negotiated with each other since 1979 would be a nuclear Iran. You just can't have, you can't have Donald Trump in the same position or in worse, a worse position than Barack Obama was in when they negotiated for years in painstaking detailed, sending over the best experts across the government hammering out a deal, which I will say I was against.

A lot of people were for, including David Ignatius. So I think most people on the show say, we'll go with Ignatius and not Joe on this one. But still, they hammered out a deal that Donald Trump and a lot of conservatives completely slammed. So are you really going to put yourself at the end of this war in a position where you're in at least as bad a position as Barack Obama and Joe Biden and the other seven president since 1979 having to negotiate the future of Iran's nuclear. program? I mean, no, they've said there cannot be a nuclear Iran. So how do they get out of this with a nuclear Iran with their program, even if they lie and say, oh, well, you know, give us 20 years? How do they do that? And does not be seen as a total abject failure on the Trump administration's part. I think Marco is right. Yeah, well, I'll first note, socks have one three in a row somehow.

But you're right that this is a real dilemma. And there are some loud voices suggesting that President Trump should think about endorsing the idea of splitting these two things, make the straight-of-form moves separate from nuclear negotiation. Senator Blumenthal on our air yesterday did that. Richard Haas, who has been one step ahead on a lot of the negotiations there in Iran.

He also thinks there'd be some wisdom in splitting this, make coming, do the straight now, come back to the nuke program. The president, though, does not seem interested. And I think it's to your point, Joe. You know, it is already, let's be clear, inherently a defeat for the United States that Iran is going to come out of this war with more control over the straight of Hormuz, whether that means fully in control or some sort of authority

that's established or a tolling mechanism. It's almost inherent at this point that Tehran's going to have more of a say over this vital waterway than they did at the start of this conflict at the end of February. That's already an L for the Trump team. They can't take another one. So therefore, they need to save face and accomplish that goal, which you just laid out, preventing Tehran from ever achieving any kind of nuclear program. So that's why I think President Trump is going to take a harder line here because he knows the Strait of Hormuz in some ways is already gone, at least to a degree, and that now he needs to be tougher here to get that sort of win. The issue is, is Tehran willing to negotiate when, how? And if not, will President Trump have to eventually pull down the ceasefire? He's been very reluctant to do that to this point.

He's extended it a number of times. I've been told by AIDS, he really doesn't want to resume the fighting. But if he doesn't have any other cards to play, he may just have to in order to get to pressure Iran to a deal. You know, but the question is, what does the fighting get you? I mean, they've destroyed so many military targets now. And with every military target that they destroy, do they pick up any political gains from that? I keep going back to what? one of the foremost experts of the CIA over the past generation told me early on when he heard

that they were, you know, I've taken out 60% of this, 70% of that, 8% of that. This was three weeks ago, maybe a month ago, this expert said to me, he goes, it sounds a lot like those Vietnam body counts. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day because we won every battle in Vietnam. We won every battle in Iraq. We won every battle in Afghanistan. And we still lost. the wars. So David Drucker, it seems to me again, when you don't just look at what this administration is saying, what Marco's saying, I'm sorry, Secretary of State, I've not even a very long time, what Pete Higgseth has been saying, Secretary of Defense, I haven't known him for a very long time, we didn't hang out in the same bars together. If you listen to what the administration's been saying,

if you listen to what conservatives have been saying like me for a generation, if you listen to what even Democrats have been saying there can be no nuclear Iran, then it seems to me everything else is just ground noise. If the president gets out of this war and Iran still has a nuclear program, it's hard to believe that everybody wouldn't consider that a massive law. So maybe that's why the Secretary of Defense and maybe that's why Secretary of State are saying the things that they're saying, even while others around them were saying, well, maybe we can get a deal that allow Iran to do this, that, or that, just open up the straight first. Yeah, look, I think I'd pay attention in particular to the Secretary of State's remarks

because I think he understands the stakes here and he's the one person in the administration that is able to communicate the administration's broader goals usually anyway in a way that doesn't make it look like they're headed toward accepting a situation that is less than things were before the war. I mean, just, Joe, and, you know, we've been talking about this here. Think about how the discussion about Iran has transitioned from 2015 to 2026. Republicans were up at arms, and I think rightly so about what turned out to be the, you know, the JCPOA, the Iran deal that Obama negotiated with Iran, because it never dealt with Iran's proxy groups, their malign actions in the Middle East.

It never permanently shut down their nuclear weapons capabilities and development. It simply delayed and put them out into the future when they could be hopefully dealt with by somebody else at a later date and didn't deal with Iran's terrorism, right? They're the largest, the world's largest state sponsor of terrorism. We've now moved from that debate to, is it,

allowing them nuclear weapons capabilities in the future or allowing them to control the strait of Hormuz, something they've never controlled before. And so Iran with a much deeper threshold for pain than we have because they don't have voters because they don't allow their people to vote and they kill their own people when they protest. They are now using this new chit that they have to try and salvage the nuclear program. And the administration isn't even talking about the wielding of terror as a piece of diplomacy and military strength, which they have. And so our resounding military victory is impressive. It's not a bad thing. But Iran's conventional military was never the problem. The problem was the development of nuclear weapons, the terrorism that

they spread around the globe, and particularly in the Middle East. And we're not even discussing those things. And that's one of the reasons why at this point, the outcome of the war, geopolitically is completely up in the air. Yeah, and you know, Willie, also one of the reasons why the president is going to have to be able to say to the American people that we've come up with a deal that re-opens us straight and has finished Iran's nuclear program. Because if you talk to people in the Obama administration, and, you know, as I've said, just like David Drucker, I was opposed to that deal.

We talked about it every day on the show. But if you talk to Jake Sullivan, if you talk to Wendy Sherman, if you talk to other people that negotiated this deal, it was a painstaking, long negotiation. And they will now point to examples of how that deal actually contained Iran's nuclear program. And so they will tell you it worked. And conservatives would say that is a good thing. But the criticism at the time was, what are you going to do about the conventional weapons that they keep building that they, you know, could fire missiles not only at all of our allies in the region, but also hit America. What are you going to do about all the proxy groups?

What are you going to do about the fact that they still export terrorism and the Obama administration? And a lot of people would say it was a deal worth taking. A lot of people would say, okay, these are two separate things. Conservatives hated that. Republicans hated that. And now that is the argument a lot of them are making, which is, let's just split these two things. And we'll worry about the nuclear deal later. Now let's just open the straight.

Why, that's an even worse situation, a far worse situation, than what President Obama negotiated. So we would have had this war. It's costing tens and tens of billions of dollars, probably a billion dollars every day. and we would be in worse shape than we were under the Obama plan. And that's exactly what the Iranians are offering so far in these talks, if you can call them, that preliminary, which is, we'll open the straight, you end the blockade, and we'll talk about the nuclear program later. And as you say, the president, I don't feel like can walk away from this war without some conclusion on the nuclear program. Also, we should point out, oil is really on the rise again, close to the $108 a budget. barrel yesterday up to 111 this morning right now on global markets. So the Iranians have found that

Strait of Hormuz is the leverage point that they don't want to give up. And now Europeans are being our allies much more vocal because they're feeling the brunt of a lot of this in their criticism. German Chancellor Friedrich Mertz offering a strong rebuke of the Trump administration and public comments yesterday. Speaking at a school in central Germany, Merth said, quote, the Americans clearly have no strategy when it comes to the war, with Iran. He called the entire operation ill-considered to say the least. He said he's unsure what strategic exit the United States could take at this point, adding Iran is obviously negotiating very skillfully, or rather very skillfully not negotiating. The German chancellor, adding an entire

nation referring to the United States, is being humiliated by the Iranian leadership. Katty K, obviously Europe, though, not involved in this war directly, is feeling all the impacts on their costs of fuel, on their costs of food, on their costs of fertilizer. This war is impacting them, and now leaders are being much more vocal in their criticism of the Trump administration than we've seen them on other matters. Yeah, because Europeans are feeling the impacts because of high gas prices, because there's a lack of jet fuel. Luftanzer, for example, has that to cancel thousands of flights coming up. up over the summer. That's the German airline. So the Germans know what is at stake here. I mean, we're in a situation where there's a kind of game of chicken going on between the U.S. economy and the pressure that that puts on the president and on Republicans and the global

economy and how long that can withstand the closing of the strait of Hormuz. President Trump said on Sunday, well, the Iranians have only three days before their pipelines explode because they've had to shut down production and the pipelines are under so much pressure because they're still full of oil. That doesn't just sound like a scene from a Tom Clancy novel. It's literally a scene from a Tom Clancy novel. Although a former US intelligence officer sold me, it's silly. Of course they know how to shut down production. They are not three days away from their pipelines exploding. But the White House is trying to put out a message that the Iranian regime can't withstand this economic pressure. They may still have three to four months of availability that

they can put up with this kind of shutting of the straight of all moves. I don't think the global economy and clearly the Europeans. I think that's where the frustration you hear from the German Chancellor is coming from. Germany, of course, has been actually one of the most closely aligned European countries with America. They stood out firmly in favor of strikes against Iran initially, very close to Israel as well. So it's striking that that comes from the German leader. Yeah, we've seen a real change in the dynamic here, the relationship between the United States and Europe. It started, I mean, we look, President Trump since coming back to office, has been taking pot shots at Europe. But it feels like Europe,

found their voice and their footing willing to hit back earlier this year with the situation in Greenland when President Trump flying to Davos and there was a real thought that he might land and declare war on Europe in order to seize that island. And we have now seen since that moment and it accelerated because of the war in Iran and of course the ongoing struggle in Ukraine, more and more European leaders find their voice in being willing to hit back. Trump's critical of them. They're now doing the same. Zelensky repeatedly of late feels like he's abandoned his quest to be Mr. Nice guy to cozy up the Trump. Now the German chancellor, Emil Macron, has done the same of late,

telling President Trump, hey, you don't need to speak every day. So I'm wondering here, this is going to be more and more of Europe, trying to hit back and saying, look, we can't count on you. We don't need you. Yeah, saying the quiet part quite out loud. So we've got a lot to get to this morning. Still ahead. We've got Congressman Rokana joining us. of the latest on the Epstein survivors and plans for them today. Also the latest on Jimmy Kimmel and Donald and Melania Trump, the president and the first lady, calling for him to be fired.

We'll have the latest on the new charges filed against the man accused of trying to storm the White House correspondence dinner with guns and knives. Plus, some Republicans are using that incident to push for legislation that would use taxpayer money to fund the president's ballroom project. It appears not everyone in the party is on board with this. And as we go to break, a quick look at the Travelers forecast this morning from Mackey I'm sorry. I just got to say, how stupid? How stupid do they think we are? They blast out a statement. All of these people mindlessly throw it up. They're all vomiting Donald Trump's words out

throughout the day, right after the shooting for a ballroom. And we're going to talk about it. But King Charles literally lives in a palace. And he goes out and does events every day. And that's what would happen here, too. The president wants a grand ballroom for a legacy. And he wants you to pay for it. Don't try to tie this tragic event to that. The two are completely separate because there will never be a White House

Correspondence Center in anybody's White House. All right. Let's get the weather now from Accuweather's Bernie Rayno. Bernie, how's it looking? It's going to be turning cooler and wetter across the northeast as we go through the rest of this week, Mika. But the Accuather forecast shows some sunshine today. Portland, Boston, New York City, spotty showers this afternoon, Harrisburg, a shower in Washington, D.C., maybe a thunderstorm in Pittsburgh.

Watch out for severe weather this afternoon from Dallas toward Litter Rock, toward Jackson. a couple of showers in Atlanta and Charlotte this morning. If you're doing any traveling, except for Texas and the Mid-South, there shouldn't be any travel delays. To help you make the best decisions and be more in the know, download the ACU weather app today. Welcome back to Morning Joe. It is half past the hour. And as we mentioned later today, King Charles will deliver an address to Congress. And prior to that speech, Democratic Congressman Rocana of California is planning to host a roundtable,

of Epstein survivors. Kana says he scheduled this roundtable after King Charles did not respond to his requests to meet with victims of Epstein. The congressman has also urged the monarch to demand the release of all the missing Epstein files. The palace has indicated the king and queen will not be able to meet with victims because of ongoing investigations in Britain. And Congressman Kana joins us now. He sits on the House Oversight Committee. Congressman, thanks so much for being with us. First of all, Could you just compare the difference between a monarchy's response to the Epstein crisis in their own home and the presidents and Republicans in the United States? The King and Britain have actually held people accountable who have been accused of horrible crimes. The president has not prosecuted or investigated a single person in the Epstein files.

And so the request was for the king to meet the survivors to show that he and his country are taking this seriously. I had a constructive conversation with the British ambassador. He said the king didn't want to meet individually, but he indicated that the king may say something in the address today to Congress, that he may talk about the abuse of these young girls and the need for accountability. And you're going to be bringing survivors together today. How many do you plan to bring together? And what do you hope to accomplish? Well, Virginia Joufrey's family really helped plan this.

There are going to be a number of survivors, a number of women's groups, a number of survivor groups. One, to call again for the release of the remaining files. There are three million files that still have not been released. And then the fact that there are men in these files who live, literally are alleged to have raped young girls. I get texts from survivors every day saying the names are there. Why is there no investigation? Why is there no prosecution? I mean, the irony is that Thomas Massey and I passed this law. They're two American members of Congress. And yet it's actually Britain that's asking for the release of the rest of the files from the

Justice Department so that they can have the prosecution of the former prince or Lord Mendelsohn. We did have a development with Katie Fang, who brought a case in D.C. court. And she's saying under the Administrative Procedures Act, she has not been given, and the American public haven't been given the information, and the Justice Department is in violation of the Epstein Transparency Act. So I'm hopeful that actions like this may move the bull. Congressman, good morning. As you say, this is a matter of law. Those files have to be released, but a law passed that you just cited. So for people watching today, is it as simple as it sounds why Republicans are not working harder to get this out in the open,

why the Department of Justice is not working harder to get all of this out in the open. Many of those members, by the way, who talk a lot in the last couple of years about what was really going on with Epstein, who was really involved and have gotten much quieter now, is it as simple as the President of the United States' name is in there so many times that they want to move on for this on his behalf? It's as simple as they're covering something up. Look, this is obviously on the president's mind. When Nora O'Donnell asks the president about the awful assassination attempt or shooter,

he voluntarily brings up Epstein. The first lady, to her credit, said, we need to have the Epstein survivors believed and there needs to be justice. And yet you've had three million of these files not released. And yet you've had a Department of Justice that has not brought a single investigation or prosecution. Well, Joe knows how slow Congress moves. The fact that we expelled or got rid of two members of Congress who were accused of sexual misconduct faster than the Department of Justice has brought a single case against the Epstein class is just unconscionable. Congressman, if, as the survivors have said to you, there are men out there who raped young girls

and they have not faced any kind of prosecution. If the files are not released by the Justice Department, is there any other way that the American public, and for that matter, the British public, will find out who the, men are? Not unless the Justice Department brings investigations and brings prosecution. So there are two issues. One is the release of the files, which they need to do for the law. But the other fact is that the Justice Department has not met with these survivors. They have not met with the survivors' lawyers. They're not opening up investigations or prosecutions. And that is just an abandonment of justice. It shows the American people that they're two tiers of justice. These women have

have been abandoned for decades, and they still aren't getting justice. All right, Democratic Congressman Rokana of California. Thank you. We'll be watching today. We appreciate you're coming on the show this morning. Thank you, sir. Thank you. All right. The suspected gunmen accused of trying to storm the White House Correspondents Association Dinner over the weekend is now charged with attempting to assassinate President Trump. Cole Allen made his first appearance in federal court yesterday.

in Washington, D.C. The 31-year-old from California is also charged with taking a firearm across state lines to commit a felony and discharging a gun during a violent crime based on the gunshot heard as he stormed the security checkpoint.

Additional charges are expected. Prosecutors reiterated, he acted alone. If convicted, Allen could face life in prison. The judge ruled Allen remained detained ahead of his next court appearance that is set for this Thursday, Willie. Meanwhile, Jimmy Kimmel again is drawing criticism from the Trump administration, including from the president and first lady themselves for a comedy sketch that aired two days

before that security scare at the White House Correspondence Dinner. On Thursday's episode of his late night show, Kimball delivered a parody speech like a roast, basically, noting that this year's event lacked that traditional comedians roast. So Kimmel made one up instead. joking about several topics, including the First Lady. And, of course, our First Lady, Melania, is here. Look at, well, so beautiful. Mrs. Trump, you have a glow like an expectant widow.

So that was on Thursday, a couple of days before the event on Saturday. The First Lady responded to that joke, writing in part on social media, Kimmel's hateful and violent rhetoric is intended to divide our country. People like Kimmel should not have the opportunity to enter our homes. President Trump adding on true. social, this is something far beyond the pale. Jimmy Kimmel should be immediately fired by Disney and ABC.

While ABC has yet to comment, Kimmel responded last night. It was a very light roast joke about the fact that he's almost 80 and she's younger than I am. It was not by any stretch of the definition a call to assassination and they know that. I've been very

vocal for many years speaking out against gun violence in particular, but I understand that the First Lady had a stressful experience over the weekend and probably every weekend is pretty stressful in that house. And also, I agree that hateful and violent rhetoric is something we should reject. I do. And I think a great place to start to dial that back would be to have a conversation with your husband about it.

Because I also should point out, Donald Trump is allowed to say whatever he wants to say, as are you and as am I, as are all of us. Because under the First Amendment, we have, as Americans, a right to free speech. But with that, Sam, I am sorry that you and the president and everyone in that room on Saturday went through that. I really am, just because no one got killed doesn't mean it wasn't traumatic and scary. And we should come together and be best. We really should. But if you want us to believe that a joke I made three days before this dinner had any effect on anything that happened, well, then maybe someone should look into this psychic lady, too.

This speech tonight will be classic Donald J. Trump. It'll be funny. It'll be entertaining. There will be some shots fired tonight. You know who's going to be furious when she hears that? White House Press Secretary Carolyn Leavitt will be furious. So Joe, that was Kimmel last night. You saw the timeline. The parody roast he did was on Thursday night saying he explained it as an age gap. There's just so much bad faith here. People using a moment to hopefully they don't like Jimmy Kimmel. They don't like the way he talks. talks about Donald Trump every night, maybe get him fired. Last time, those stations in ABC and Disney did listen for a time, and then he was put back on the air. We'll see how they hold up under pressure this time.

Yeah, such crocodile tears, you know if they would sit back and just let things take their natural course, there would be enough criticism of Kimmel from their side. But such crocodile tears from people who have sat back and said absolutely nothing when Donald Trump said the chairman of the joint chiefs should be executed for treason when president of the United States said Liz Cheney should be shot in the face with a firing squad when he has also said other people should be killed or executed and put them in a position where they have to have 24-hour security. It's happened time and time again. So again, crocodile tears there. Willie, you know, it, would I have said it? No, I wouldn't have said something like that

about any president. But guess what? That's what happens at these roasts. Anybody that was at the Don Imus roast knows. I mean, he said things actually for more personal. Anybody that's ever seen a roast, the Tom Brady roast, the millions of roast that I bet you Donald Trump went who knew that any time there was a relationship where, what do they call them, autumn spring relationships where you have a president who's almost 80, you have a first lady who's younger than Jimmy Kimmel, they're always those sort of jokes. Would I have said it? No, I wouldn't have said it. Would you have said it? No, none of us would say that. But comedians, especially at these type of events, which we weren't having,

comedians usually make those sort of jokes that make you go, eh, it's a little tough. And it's happened also at the White House Correspondent's dinner through the year. So again, the joke was about his age. The joke wasn't about anything else. And I believe there might have been a few jokes about Joe Biden's age. Yeah. I'm just saying.

Yeah, a few jokes about Joe Biden's age through the year. So again, the crocodile tears are a bit too much. Even for those of us who would never say something like that or want anybody else to make a joke like that. But it was, at the end of the day, a joke about his age and not violent rhetoric. That wasn't violent rhetoric. I mean, listen to Don Rickles jokes. I mean, that's not violent rhetoric. I mean, I think that's really kind and careful.

And I would say that if you're a young person in this country, you have grown up in an age of hearing the President of the United States over the course of the past decade say things that nobody would be allowed to say ever. Say things that anybody would be fired for. Say things that totally tear people down, that hurt people, that violate their sense of self-confidence, that their sense of worth. they say things about people's appearance, tweet things about people's appearance. Call reporters, call women, reporters. Face shame women. Like, I can go through the list and some of the things that this man has said, I'm sorry, are things that we would never want our children to think are okay. Well, we wouldn't want our children to say it. We wouldn't allow our CEOs to say it. We wouldn't allow our football coaches to say it. We wouldn't allow our preachers to say it. We wouldn't allow

any of our leaders to say it. That said, as Jimmy Kimmel said, we have a First Amendment. That First Amendment allows the President of the United States to say what he's saying, whether we agree with it or not. It also allows comedians to constantly push the line and say things that are uncomfortable if you're making jokes about a president's age, as everybody did with Joe Biden forever, or you're making some other joke that, again, might be on the edge, but is not talking about political violence. That's never okay. Never okay.

And again, we have to stress, he made these jokes before, two days before. It's not like he was mocking what happened on Saturday. In fact, he did do the opposite. So that must have been terrible inside that room. I mean, Donald Trump a few weeks ago celebrated the death of Bob Mueller. I mean, if you want to play this game, we can go down the list of rhetoric about death, about violence and all the things. We can talk about January 6th. I mean, we know that this is not a good faith criticism, Jonathan Lemire, but Donald Trump has installed and surrounded himself with people, including in the FCC, who are happy to carry out his orders.

And if Donald Trump and the First Lady are upset or pretending to be upset, and they see this as a moment to try for once and for all to get rid of. of Jimmy Kimmel. They have someone. It appears in media organizations, but also in the government, willing to at least try. Yeah, it's unclear whether he will, but we saw the public pressure campaign before it briefly caused ABC to suspend Kimmel before we're reversing that decision. As you guys were talking, I was compiling a list. I mean, it would be thousands of examples of hateful things that President Trump has said over the years. You mentioned Bob Mueller. He is called for treason and execution of his political foes. Let's remember the very racist video he shared of Barack and Michelle Obama a few weeks ago. Oh, and of course, he threatened to wipe out Iran's entire civilization.

You know, and I also will just note setting aside the shooting Saturday night, the White House Correspondents dinner is meant to celebrate the First Amendment. And yet, President Trump, you know, a couple days later, calls for someone to be fired because of something they said, rethinking that perhaps is necessary. David Drucker, I also will say, It speaks a little bit of, I don't know, maybe desperation from the Trump camp to try to grasp something else, some sort of go back to the culture wars where he had some success over his career. He had some success last year. But right now that isn't working, it seems, at least polls would suggest it's not working because voters, that's not what they're concerned about. They're concerned about the war in Iran.

And there's certainly more than anything concerned about the economy and rising prices. And it feels like this is one of those issues that's going to stir up that, you know, a hardcore Trump base, the 15, 20% of voters, and everyone else just isn't going to care. And frankly, might say, you're distracted. Why are you talking about that? Why are you talking about your ballroom? None of this changes my life. Yeah, I think what we've learned over the past decade is that Trump is an extremely

polarizing figure. The price of admission is already built in. So if you're on board, you're on board. This is going to just reaffirm your decision to ride it out with the president. And if you have bigger fish to fry, if you're concerned about affordability, if you're concerned about the war in Iran, however you feel about the events of the weekend, they were tragic, they shouldn't happen, president shouldn't be targeted, nobody should be targeted. But he is not the kind of figure that is going to behave in a particular way that is going to

change the minds of many voters, right? I mean, first of all, when you live in class White House, don't throw stones because it's not going to work. And you'd have to see a wholesale change in character and behavior from the president for voters to have a wholesale change and reassess how they feel about the president. And look, second of all, we're very deep into the midterm election cycle. And the issues that are driving voters are not going to change. And look, one of the things we've seen from Republicans in the past few days is a firmer commitment to building the ballroom.

Some are now proposing federal funds for the facility. And that's the sort of thing that over time you're going to have a lot of voters wondering why the federal government wants to spend money on a Taj Mahal attached to the White House when they're having so

many issues in their personal economy. Notwithstanding the fact that the president is going to continue to travel outside the White House because he likes doing it, right? I mean, this isn't an argument that we've now determined that the president cannot leave the compound. This is why we need a ballroom. At least that would be something to discuss. But the president is headed out on the road, and he's going to continue to hit the

trail. He's going to continue to hold his stadium rallies. Why shouldn't he? And so it just renders that argument moot. But basically, once the dust settles here, it leaves everything politically, most likely right back where it was on Friday. Yeah, no doubt about it. You know, Caddy, I read something, though, that was really caught my attention. We're talking about the rhetoric that's been used by the president over the past decade that's really numbed so many people to it. And I'm concerned.

I hope that we don't have a generation of people that think that because he does it, it's okay. and that we see this seed change, I fear that we may. But I read, I can't remember exactly who wrote this, but I was reading a newsletter. Somebody talking about how he and his group left the White House dinner. They walked down, as they evacuated, they walked down about five blocks, 10 blocks. They went to a bar to see what was going on in the news,

and hockey games were up all around the bar. And this was after there had been this shooting. breaking news. The shooting at the White House correspondent center with major breaking news. And so he said, hey, to one of the bartenders, can you turn on, you know, CNN? We want to see what's happening. And he said this kind of bar that would have sports and CNN and MS up, you know, 10 years ago, all the time. There would always be news channels up. And so, you know, guys like, hey, there's breaking news here. We don't know what happened. And so the bartender turns it on. And two minutes later, comes back and he says, eh, the manager, manager says no, we don't do politics in this bar and he

turns the hockey game back on. And the insight was we have become so numbed to the craziness in Washington, the craziness in this country over the past, let's say 10 years, but especially the past year and a half, that Americans are just numb to it and they don't really care what happened 10 blocks away, even if it could have a significant impact on America's politics. So numb and so polarized. I think that both are true, Joe. I mean, if you look at what happened to the country after the shooting of Ronald Reagan in that exact same location, America did come together. There was bipartisan outpouring of sympathy and respect for the president. that lasted about two seconds this time around.

And you wonder whether that bar owner is thinking, I'm going to turn this off. I'm going to turn off politics and have sports instead because people are numb or whether because as a business owner, there is absolutely no incentive to you financially in running some news channel because your customers are going to say that is partisan. The moment people see the news, the moment people see politics,

they're going to think it's partisan. I'm either hearing from the left or I'm hearing from the right. And probably if you were running a bar, you'd run sports as well if you wanted to make sure you turned a profit. All right, David Drucker, thank you very much for coming on this morning. And still ahead on Morning Joe, the Pentagon reportedly may not be telling the president. The full picture about the war with Iran will dig into that new piece from the Atlantic. Morning Joe will be right back.

I wasn't worried that I could see what was going on at the door. I also saw a lot of very strong, physically strong, really attractive law enforcement people come through those doors. Does that matter? Is that part of that how attractive? Look, I don't want my life saved by a six. Wow. I don't know why he does that. It's questionable.

He does. He always does. They're very attractive. Let's bring in now our own very attractive. MSN out contributor, Mike Barnacle. Look at him. And also the host of Pablo Tori finds out MS now contributor to Pablo Tori. What is that sound?

Let's just get this out of the way right now, Barnacle and Lamere. Today is day two of Boston held hostage. And I do not want to hear. Oh, well, Cora's gone and we've won two games. By the way, Suarez has had two, two, while Cora was there, had two outings where he was lights out. And he was lights out again last night. And as far as scoring runs, the Blue Jays, who I fell in love with during the World Series last year, Mike, they played like the bad news bears last night. I'm telling you, a JV team from, from Lemire's old hometown, could have beaten the Blue Jays last night.

night. Yeah, but there's still a major league baseball team and Rangers Swarres shut him down. No hit hit her through six innings. Yeah, he's great. The spectacular performance you know, thankfully since Alex has left, the team

has come alive. This Chiron is a criminal act. How dare you know? Take that Chiron down. Take that Chiron down. Take it down. Take it down. This is a Chiron

we want. Boston held hostage, colon, day two. Continue, Mike Barnacle. Well, you know, actually, I think the team is kind of angry, angry at themselves, so the lack of performance when Alex was there as manager for the first three or four weeks of the season. That happens. Clubhouse anger can become contagious out in the field. Their anger can result in better performances. Clearly, it did last night for Ranger Suarez. He was literally, literally unhittable for six-eneged. through a one hitter, struck out, I think, 10 or 11, Lemire? Yeah, 10, yeah. So, yeah, I, I will say, look at that.

Hey, we're in last place. Hey, hey, thank you, Craig Breslo. I will say, Lamere, again, about Suarez. He has been, when he's on, man, he is lights out. But right now you have a Boston fan base, obviously, not happy about being held hostage day two. And I think a lot of players are, I think Mike's right. Is Lamere there right now, T. Chair, thank you. That's very kind of you when I'm talking about him for 12 minutes for you to finally put him up. Just stop. Is he doing two jobs at once, T.J? No, he's not double-dipping.

Okay, I don't know about that. Anyway, so anyway, Lamere, I think Mike's right. I think there may be a combination of anger for good reason at Bredslow in the front office. I also think there may be some sort of guilt because they loved AC so much. They may feel bad about playing so badly the first month of this season and feel like they were in part responsible for him losing his job. I like the similarities to how nightlines started. Like every night it was day whatever of the hostage crisis. That's us now.

What can happen here? This is going to be the same thing because of Alex Cora. I know. I think that's right. I mean, Cora was beloved. We saw the really emotional responses from a number in the clubhouse over the weekend. Trevor's story fighting back tears had to sit on Sunday because he was so upset about what happened. He's also written 215.

But, you know, maybe. But we saw Garrett Whitlock upset. We saw Roman Anthony, the young face of the franchise going forward, upset. I think there's something to this. And I think a lot of Red Sox fans deeply unhappy how this handled. Again, core of the face of it, but also beloved franchise icon, Jason Veritik, other members, the coaching staff. I'll be very curious just the response this team gets, or at least the ownership group gets when they end this road trip, Pablo. You know, there's a couple more in Toronto before

they do get back to Fenway. You know, it is, it is, you know, it's a delight. You're thrilled, but this has been one tumultuous thing after another for the Red Sox after 2018, where the Yankees, the Yankees are now the model of stability cruising their way to an ALE's crown and likely World Series championship. Okay. So we're not going to do that. yet. We're not going to do that. But if you're going to start stitching a banner, I am, of course, above celebrating the demise of a seller-dweller. It's like, come on, we're the Yankees. However, however, if you want to stitch a banner that says, Red Sox, swept by Yankees, had to fire a half dozen coaches. I feel pretty good about that. I like that. I mean, I feel like that something

take pride in. Meanwhile, by the way, this is the comedy of picking up the post-sports section. Rod into the Cora, and you might think, ah, piling on, this is actually a column calling for the Mets to hire Alex Cora. They should. And so there is already a market. Not going to happen. Not going to happen. What's he doing?

What's he doing? He's going to take some time on. Stretching. Darkness retreat, Aaron Rogers-style. He's not going to jump to the Mets. Ayahuasca retreat? I love it. This has felt like a delirious fever dream a bit.

Yeah. I mean, it's just great. It's just great. Big good move. For all you Red Sox fans, we're 29 games into the season. That means there are 133 games left. It's a long road. Two other good notes.

Not May. How about this? I know it's 29 games in, but the A's and the Reds are both in first place. Now, that's kind of fun, isn't it? Wow. Something. Tito. Pito, Franco.

Pablo, let's talk a little NBA. Pick your game last night. But the Thunder crews, they sweep the suns. they're moving on. We expected that. But how about the top seat in the East? Detroit Pistons now on the ropes down 3-1 after losing in Orlando last night? Getting skunked by the magic is a strange phenomenon in the NBA, certainly in the playoffs. I did not see that coming. The Pistons, of course, were the top of the Eastern Conference, and yet here is what you see. I just, I'm unfamiliar with, I mean, look, Magic Pistons isn't exactly Ali Frazier. But in this season, for those who

fell asleep. The pistons are supposed to be really good. And so here you have a situation where it's the Orlando Magic that looked dominant. And then you mentioned the Thunder, and that's the one we expected. The Thunder sweeping the Phoenix Suns out of the postseason already. And that's the team that's, of course, favored heavily, heavily to win. John, and I expect that will be the case at the end of this as well. Yeah, Thunder Spurs lining up there in the Western Conference finals. We'll see if Denver, they did win last night to extend their series against Minnesota. But that, you know, They're down three two there. But Joe, Mika, Pablo's burying the NBA lead here.

That, of course, is the Knicks with a crucial game five tonight. That series is 2-2. Pablo will be in attendance, assuming he can get by MSG's facial recognition technology. I doubt that. Perhaps. I mean, they'll say, look, he's so attractive akin to the security guards that rushed the Washington Hilton. We have no choice but to let him in. But Celtics can finish off their series tonight.

But NICs have a very important two-two. I'm going to Bob's a bad one time. mustache this tonight, by the way. Remember that? Oh, I like me. I like that. I got my Bobby V. Well, let me just assure Knicks fans, as somebody who's been following the Atlanta Hawks now for over 50 years, you're going to win this series. You have nothing to worry about. You just seriously, just sit back and enjoy the ride because the Hawks will not advance. I have 50 years of heartbreak on that one. Finally, before we go, we're comfortably over the top of the hour, as Alex has let me know. several times now. Let's talk about the ESPN report that Live is canceling their New Orleans

tournament. The ship is going down. Oh, boy. I mean, look, Saudi Arabia, the private investment fund has been reallocating its investments. And I think that's a sort of euphemism for, we were paying John Rom how much? We were paying these guys. I mean, John Rom, by the way, the guy who maybe deserves it the most, but look down that roster. This, Joe, the whole thing of what was this experiment? It was a fun dalliance into sporting geopolitics and the return on investment. Of course, now with the war in Iran speaking to the larger economic landscape, it never made sense. It continues to make even less sense. And so the fact that New Orleans is gone, notably the president has a couple of events still scheduled on the live tour hosting those. And so we wait to see what

happens there. But all of this is exactly what the weather vein is pointing at, which is irrational at conception. It is irrational, perhaps, till the end. The host of Pablo Tori finds out, MS now. Contributor, Pablo Tori, thank you so much.