Morning Joe - Trump headlines day one of GOP midterm convention, Morning Joe prays for Sen. Tim Scott

Episode Date: September 10, 2026

September 10, 2026 – 6am:Trump headlines Republican midterm convention, promises voters $5,000 if GOP winsJames Talarico clarifies progressive positions in interviewTim Scott gives ‘animated’ speech – Rev. Sharpton leads prayer for himWSJ: Anthropic researcher quits over ‘out-of-control’ AI fearsNYT: Bill Gates warns AI is more dangerous than big tech will admit To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I want to get there, but I've got a few things that my son's playing high school football. And I promised him I would not miss any of his games. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, a classic midweek high school football game. That's why they call it Wednesday night lights, baby. Clear eyes, full hearts, can't go. Okay, that guy's out, but everyone else. My son's getting married in Greece. Congratulations.

Destination waiting, so I have a good excuse, right? Look, son, I need you to get married in Greece this week. I know you don't love her, but this is important. Wow. Okay. A few of the reasons why some Republicans are not attending President Trump's midterm convention in Dallas. When does that start? It started.

There's people there, a few. Good morning. Oh, it was last night? Yeah. That's something. What happened? Well. Trump, Trump, Trump all night.

I think he tried to like offer money for votes or something. That's going to really help voters to get. Two hours. That he has a 32% approval rating or that he's like the most upside down present on the economy. I think we've had. So it's good reminders, as Carl Rove said, of just what they don't like about the Republican Party. So let the band play on. Along with Joe Willie and me, we have the co-host of our 8 a.m. hour staff writer, The Atlantic,

Jonathan Lemire, co-host of the Rest is Politics podcast, the BBC's Caddy K. MS Now National Affairs analyst John Heilman. He is partner in chief political columnist at Puck. And the host of Politics Nation on MS now, Reverend Al Sharpton. He is president of the National Action Network. Good to have you all on board. Where's Donnie? Donnie not here?

Donnie's... He's recovering. I got some text going. Donnie's good. No, I talk to him. yesterday. Well, no, I was just sitting here. He started yelling at me, Willie. No, I don't think that's what happened.

Willie's right here. I'm saying I'm smoking my cigarette. Right? Coomenthal. You were not smoking. In between, smoking it. And he just started screaming at me. It was ridiculous. Donnie can give it right back. Donnie's good. Two buddies going at it. Yeah, we talked to out.

You erupted at the wrong person. I said, look me in the eye. And TJ, is it you're directing? When I said, look me in the eye, did you go, go to Donnie looking job. Because it was cut. It was like, it was like TJ directed like a movie and go, look me at the eye. And then he shot.

And there was the up close. It was like Philip Seymour, you know. I think we need to take him home. Okay. Donnie? Donnie. What? Donny is.

Donnie is. Donnie is sleep. No, we love Donnie. No, I was just complimenting TJ. I know that you don't like TJ. I appreciate compliments. Do you like compliments? Yeah.

All right. President Trump. Who won the football game last night? That's T.J. in the front there. Too soon. Oh, big Seahawks night. Well, no, actually. If only, it was a really bad Patriots night.

Seahawks quarterback, Sam Donald, hurt. First series of the game. Oh, no. Pats built a 10-0 lead, which they proceed to blow in a horrific fashion. Oh, good. Let's enjoy these. Drake May threw three terrible fourth-quarter interceptions. It's off-forgings. It always happens.

Worst of all, they're going down the field with like 20 seconds to go. They're in field goal range, down three. Kick it, go to overtime. He forces a terrible pass, which I'm sure we'll get to enjoy in a second on these highlights. Look, he's open. We're going to watch them all twice. Oh, good. There's one of them.

It's important that we show this to our viewers because so many people were watching. I think that was the first one over a different thing. Yeah, no. Yeah, the last one is the worst, which just inexplicable decision. So he's bad. Still, that guy still, to Seahawk got it, not the Patriot. our new receiver got hurt. It was just, it's week one,

but it was about as bad of a week one as you can say. So how bad was Sam Darnal? Oh, that was horrible. Donald heard his hip badly. Left after the first series. Seahawks went with their backup, who didn't do much, but did enough to get the game. Here's the, here's the back foot.

Oh, come on, man. 20 seconds to go. Wait, did you just say three picks in the fourth quarter? Three picks in the fourth quarter. Okay. So if he throws that away, they kick a field goal to tie it. And here's the Sam Darnold injury early. He kind of lands awkward.

He kind of lands awkwardly. I guess after the game, they said they think he escaped serious injury, but they don't know yet. Yikes. In the fourth quarter of the quarter of the-in-old. Yeah, no, it wasn't good. That doesn't help your quarterback-grade. It doesn't help with the narrative that he played so poorly in the Super Bowl, too. Now, in a rematch, he was even worse.

Yeah, okay, so let's talk about the other sports controversy going on. And I agree with these people, all the people of his head. if you're going to have one of the best tennis matches of the year, don't have it at 3.30 in the morning. I mean, seriously, I don't know what the U.S. Open. I don't know. I had to leave. People organizing the U.S. Open what they think.

But, Willie, that just can't happen again. You can't have one of the best matches by one of the best Americans and have it ending at 3.30 in the morning. Against the best player in the world. Against the best player in the world. side is when you have two great players, there's a reasonable chance that's going to go five sets. Right. There's a reasonable chance they're going to be tiebreakers.

So those matches are going to be long. Plan. So you should schedule accordingly, right? Women's matches often go much quicker. But this could happen tomorrow night. Friday night is men's semi-final night every year at the U.S. Open. I don't know what time. The first one starts at seven, maybe, something like that.

So if it goes five-set, you could run into the same thing. There is a whole thing about late night at the U.S. Open, and the place stays full, and there's energy. That's a little extreme. But people can't watch it. You know what? TV. Late night at the U.S. Open is like midnight. It's not 3.30 in the morning.

That's just ridiculous. I mean, I only doesn't stay up until 3.30. Well, it depends. I mean, surprising. Not for tennis. Yeah. All right. Can I get to our top story this morning?

Yeah, but really, is this a top story? Well. A made-up event that nobody's watching. But you don't even know what he said. Oh, yeah. You're going to be riveted. It's good stuff. I didn't even know what's going on.

President Trump took the stage at the opening night of the Republican Midterm Convention in Dallas last night. On his way to Texas yesterday afternoon, his trip got off to a rough start. That is a tough metaphor. Just briefly delayed at Joint Base Andrews by the deployment of an inflatable emergency slide. Was this the zillion dollar gift? This is the new Air Force One plane that was. a gift from Qatar. Okay, wait.

Was that the one they couldn't use because they're afraid to get blown up? Yep. Okay. Still using it. But they used it and then that happened? It was not immediately clear whether the slide was intentionally inflated.

What's going on here? During testing. You remember Eastern Airlines? Whether it was an error. But Cruz... Cruise eventually deflated, detached, and carted the slide away. Once the president arrived at the arena,

he spoke to a crowd described as packed. Who described that because I didn't see it, but I saw a lot of those seats? Despite accounts from the room, noting that sections in the upper level were almost entirely empty. It was Trump who said it was packed. And he said, don't go to the bathroom because it'll be us misleading people. Look at that. That's a lot of people who went to the bathroom. Okay. Trump hit a variety of topics.

Older audience. It's huge. That's true. 70 plus. His nearly two-hour speech, oh, my God, urging the crowd to pretend he's running in November. Defending his unpopular war in Iran and even offering to give $5,000 to every American adult. Yeah, I don't think he can do that. If Republicans keep control of Congress. Take a look. I'm asking you to pretend that I'm on the ballot.

I'm on the ballot. I'm on the ballot. Just one more time. Please pretend that I'm running and get out and vote on November 3rd or sooner. Because in actuality, I really am running. We don't really know it, but we are. I mean, we're running together. We have to have Congress.

Oil would be going down as soon as we win the war with Iran, which is taking place right now. We'll win it. We're winning it. I would advise Iran not to get cute because we will have to hit them very hard. We have no choice, right? We have no choice. Does anybody here think that Iran should have a nuclear weapon? Who feels Iran should not have a nuclear weapon?

You know, it happens to me all the time. Guys come up, you know, I wish you didn't do the war in Iran. Gasolines up, blah, blah, blah. And I say, well, let me ask you just smart people. Let me ask you, not too many of them, by the way. Let me ask you one question. Can Iran have a nuclear weapon? Absolutely not. Well, then I'm right that I win.

And here is my promise. If the Republicans win the House of Representatives and the United States Senate, both of them, because of our tremendous strength and success economically, I will issue a dividend to every adult citizen in the United States of America for $5,000. The only caveat I have is that the dividend that we're making, must be spent in the United States of America. So if the Republicans win, you win with us and you get $5,000. It will be called the Trump dividend. So you're saying they can't, like, use money on a vacation to Lake Como or something like that.

I can't go to Canada. Can't go to Canada. I hear Quebec City is very pretty around Christmas times. Can't go to Tijuana. Skiing. It's out for me then. Oh, wow. The president did not mention a proposal to finance those payments, which could cost at least a trillion dollars.

A trillion dollars. And you know, it's something, Rev, we are $40 trillion in debt right now. $40 trillion in debt. We have more debt than money that we make every year as a country, our GDP. It's one of the reasons the bond markets are getting really skittish along with a money. a possible AI bust. And he's talking about buying off Americans

if they'll vote Republican. And we are facing high gas prices, high grocery prices, and he attempts to bribe the American public by proposing this fantasy $5,000. That's supposed

to ease the fact that I'm at the gas pump this morning, spending over $4 a gallon. And he's saying something that I think the Democrats, if they are a woke at all, will use. I would take every candidate, have their commercials, I'm running for governor, and then use Donald Trump. Vote for me.

I'm on the ballot. Send it candidate. Every candidate, I would lace their commercials. Well, no, he's not running. Vote for me. You're voting for Trump. And they will lose every election across this country. Yeah, he's on the ballot.

And by the way, he can't give you that $5,000. dollars, but I can by getting rid of Donald Trump's tariffs and ending Donald Trump's wars and giving you back the health care that Donald Trump took away, along with every other Republican. You want $5,000. We can do it and make sure you actually do it. You know, I really, I don't want, I don't, that was Goop. That was, that was not AI Goop. That was just, DJT, seen it for 10 years, Goop. I don't want to see that. One of the things I saw yesterday was interesting was Teller Rico on Fox. So we have a lot. of those Tellerico clips.

He said, Tellerico says something. A really good. And some really good questions by the Fox reporters. Who pressed him on a lot of zany things he said, like back five years ago, four or five years ago. He didn't avoid him. And this was one of the best comebacks. And if other Democrats could just do things like this, he said, the interviewer said,

hey, you know, you said five or six years ago that there were six genders. Do you say leave that? And he said, no, no, no, I don't believe that. I said some stupid things or some zany things, however he said it. See, well, let me tell you something. Republicans want to talk about six genders because they don't want to talk about $6 diesel prices. That's all you have to. It's really, I've done this before.

It's really not that hard. Whatever they say to you, you turn it to costs that Americans are feeling every day. And I'm telling you that $6 diesel prices at the pomp, devastating for so many Americans. And that's coming. And Tala Rico immediately, oh, wait, you want to talk about something I tweeted six years ago? Let's talk about what people in Texas are enduring right now. What people in Maine are enduring right now.

What people in Ohio are enduring right now. Diesel prices, $6 a gallon. And, you know, it's brutal. Trump the other day, somebody asked him, about high gas prices. They're not that high. They're not that high. Everybody in the country has got four. There's not a place in the country you can get gas for less than $4 a gallon.

A year ago, when Trump came in, it was under three. Yeah. And the diesel price of the north. Diesel's up 40% over the last year. Right. You know, this guy may not be an undercover agent for Vladimir Putin. He may be an undercover agent for the Democrats, for Ken Martin. Seriously.

What does Ken Martin? Have on Donald Trump. I don't know. But here's James Tallerico from yesterday. What is Ken have on him? I don't know. During the 2021 hearing, you said there are six biological sexes. Do you still believe that standing here in me right now? No. I've missed the mark on some of my past statements. I will be the first to admit it. What I meant is that there are two sexes and then there's a small percentage of people with genetic abnormalities. I obviously didn't say it correctly. There are not six sexes. There are two. And I think the reason that politicians in that convention center across the street want to talk about six sexes is because they don't want to talk about six dollar diesel. Everywhere I go across the state of Texas, people are struggling to survive in this economy. They are struggling to afford the basics, groceries, gas, utilities, health care. And that's what I'm going to be focused on from now until election.

About biological men competing in women's sports. That's a big deal here in Texas. That's right. And I oppose trans athletes playing in girls' sports if it endangers safety or fairness. Every sport has to be safe and fair. As a former public school teacher, I care a lot about our student-athletes. I care a lot about our students. And so I will oppose trans athletes playing in girls' sports if it risks safety or fairness.

Those are questions, John, that are actually salient in Texas because that is kind of all Ken Paxson has to go on. Donald Trump calling him a freak saying he's weird and he's just calmly answering those questions yesterday in a very clear way, but also getting it back to gas prices. And even last night, Donald Trump said the word affordability is fake. I inherited these high prices and I'm trying to bring them down, not true, objectively untrue. Gas prices were high when I came in. I'm bringing them down. Not true. They're high because of the war in Iran. He says they'll be below $2 a gallon once I wrap up this war, which we're going to win very quickly. It's the same old story here that Donald Trump knows there's an affordability crisis and is trying to kind of wish it away and move past

it. And that's the effective pivot the Democrats need to do. You take a question on cultural issues and then you say, okay, but then turn to, yes, but, and go to the affordability crisis. And it's particularly on gas prices. Tala Rico is particularly skilled at this, but as we were just saying, you were just saying a moment ago, El Cite in Michigan also has been pretty adept at this of late. I mean, first of all, we're seeing raw political skills here out of Tala Rico, which is why Democrats are, well, as confident as they can be about Texas, which has been so elusive for so long, and also because Ken Paxton is saddled with such baggage, including that Donald Trump, every time he talks about Ken Paxton insults how he looks in dresses,

which he did again last night from the rally stage. And he also happens to be the worst political athlete we've ever seen. Terribly. Paxton himself spoke yesterday, I believe it was a seven-minute address to a mostly empty arena, got very little reaction. But these are the issues that voters actually care about. It is, as much as Republicans, because they know they don't have much to sell, they're trying to make it about cultural issues.

If Democrats can diffuse that as effectively as Talleyco did right there, they're going to feel good about this fall. And we'll see, I say, Caddy, there was another clip in there where he was asked about gender changing surgeries for minors. Another issue for some reason some Democrats don't know how to answer was very simple for Tala Rico. He said, yeah, no, I support banning that under the age of 18. And it's that simple Democrats look, cut, paste, using your campaign and actually move forward to those policies. and you won't be with a 5%. You'll be with a 95%. But again, Tala Rica makes it look pretty easy there.

Other Democrats have gotten tangled up in that issue in the past, but he certainly seemed to get past it yesterday. We just showed a poll that has him up by five points. I'd be surprised if he's up by five points, but Texas is getting tight. You know, Ted Cruz yesterday said, hey, I only won by two points. Tala Rico appears to be up two, three, four, five points in some polls. and even Greg Abbott now tied up, according to some polls in Texas.

Yeah, Talariko clearly didn't get the kind of Roy Co-M memo that was taught to Donald Trump in the 1980s, which is you never apologize and you never admit you were wrong. And he did those, I think he did it really well there. He brought it back to the fact that he was a teacher repeatedly. You know, I was a teacher. I care about kids. I always want them to be safe. So he grounded it in his own biography.

And I think that's why you're seeing. him against Paxton, doing better in most of the polls. But I don't think from what I have heard from political scientists down in Texas, that Texas is a state that is suddenly flipping blue. You've got a lot of Hispanic voters in Texas, like in California, who are now thinking that their support for Donald Trump in 2024 hasn't brought them very much. But I don't think this is about Texas becoming the Democrat state. I think this is largely about Ken Paxton.

and what a terrible candidate is how lazy he has been, how bad he has been at fundraising. And all Talariko needs to do is come across as calm and frank and articulate and reach out to African-American voters and Hispanic voters where he seems to be doing pretty well. And that is why Democrats have a chance of taking that Senate seat rather than, if Donald Trump owns this one. If he hadn't done what he did to John Cornyn, Texas would still be in the Republican column. Oh, yeah. I'll just say one quick thing on this, which is Ken Paxton, who, you know, spent the last, ever since the primary, when Talarico ended up, and Paxton ended up being the nominee that were in the runoff has spent weeks talking about how James Talarico is low-tee, Jimmy, right?

There's been this incredible, the ongoing campaign to try to feminize him, make him seem like he's not, like he's not a real man. Ken Paxton now said that said he's not going to debate in this race, which, you know, in Texas doesn't. Ken Paxton said that? Yeah, it doesn't project a lot of. Wait, why won't a debate? Well, it doesn't project a lot of manly confidence on the part of the Republican nominee. Just to talk about, I mean, if you came back, said, probably better for you not to debate, given that his political skills are not just poor, but, but, but, historically poor.

Historically poor. Like, really, one of the worst, I know. They say, they say he's far more effective in the original London, Londoneer, sort of. Right. But I think, you know, where he spins the Fourth of July. He speaks very... With his girlfriend. You would...

Cockney very well. There's a sign of... To Caddy's point about... Texas... Who knows where Texas is headed in the long time. But in this race, Ken Paxton is a uniquely bad candidate running against a not uniquely good candidate, but a candidate with a lot of skill

in a really, really blue year. And by the way, he uniquely... He uniquely doesn't care about this race. As somebody that's been on the ballot four times, I can tell you. Yeah. Would never, ever be anywhere on Fourth of July other than at parade, shaking hands, handing out flyers, talking to people. I mean, he goes to London.

That was interesting. And then was he like in Iceland before that? I think so. Who are they can say I'm going to spend the Fourth of July weekend when I'm running for Senate and state of Texas in Iceland? And you know, the, come on. You know where Tala Rico was, the contrasts? Where? At a picnic with Willie Nelson in Texas.

I mean, you want to side by side on the Fourth of July. It doesn't get bigger. contrast. That is a contrast. I also think we shouldn't sleep on something very wise that Tala Rico did that I've experienced. If you say things wrong, own it. Say, yeah, you know, I was wrong. I shouldn't have said that. Let me tell you what I really am.

Voters understand that. Boners are grown folks. And he's running against somebody who has all the scandals in the world who is admitted to nothing. And he said, yes, I've misspoken. But this is who I am and this is where we're. focus. People will go with that because guess what? The average American has said and done things when they were younger that they lived to regret or live to say, I was wrong. People love it. People love when you admit that you're like a human. Like, watch this. I shouldn't have yelled

yesterday on TV. I'm really sorry. Still ahead on morning, Joe. We'll get you. Democratic Senator John Federman's surprise cameo at last night's convention. Later in the show today. Further breaking with his own party. Plus, There's growing concern over artificial intelligence after a dire new warning this week from an AI researcher. We'll talk about what, if anything, will be done to protect against AI threats. Also ahead this morning, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is our guest. She'll join us here at the table, and we have a lot to talk about. And as we go to break, a look at the traveler's forecast this morning from Ackyweather's Bernie.

He has nothing to apologize for it. Raino. Bernie, how's it looking? Mika, a little bit of a north-south delineation with the weather today in the northeast. You're active weather forecast wet today, St. Louis, Indianapolis, Louisville, with a couple of showers in a thunderstorm. There'll be a thunderstormer to Harrisburg, Washington, D.C. this afternoon. New York City on North turns out to be a pretty nice day, a little bit of a gusty breeze in Boston this morning. Afternoon thunderstorms in Florida, from Houston toward Dallas.

It stays rain-free in Atlanta and Charlotte delays mostly the Florida Peninsula. and watch Washington, D.C. this afternoon. To help you make the best decisions and be more in the note, download the Acky Weather up today. To keep dangerous radical out of the Senate is a united Republican party. Wow, you know, speaking of weird. Whoa. That was really weird.

That was a lot. A moment there, he needs some ante, seizure medication. I was concerned in the whole ripping the heart out of the chest. What's going on? Democrats hate America and American cults. No, they don't, but they are genuinely worried about you, Tim. Really worried about you. Tim.

Rev? Tim, what was he doing? What was he doing, Dad? Do you have any idea what Tim Scott was doing there? First, we should all join hands. Yeah, pray for him. Here, everybody's going down. Come on, sir, buddy.

Here, hold the revs said. I'm trying. We should have a giant prayer. Here, leave you some prayer. Well, Tim Scott needs to be, needs an intersection. Amen. He needs an interception and intersection because he is really out there. Yeah.

He's out there. Bring him back in, Lord. Thank you, baby. Jesus. All right. Hey, I'm in that too soon. Let's help. We can't pray for Drake, Matt.

He's on his own. I'm actually praying. I am actually praying. I'm actually praying. That was wrong. To grow that far. I mean, I understand you have to kiss the ring, I understand that you bowed to Trump. But you just start ripping your heart out on the stage.

But the way he really went off the chain, you've got to really wonder about where he is in his head. Yeah. And this is overcompensation is too light a term. Yeah, exactly. This is, I've never seen anything like that national politics. And to play to Trump like that, you would only do that if you were in fear facing, you know, a firing squad or something, or if you had really lost it. And then to demonize Democrats, to disagree on policy and legislation is one thing. But to say they hate Americans, as much as I disagree with Republicans, I don't say they hate America.

They have a different view than I have, or even Trump. But to go overboard like that, I think Tim Scott is really cause for concern. I mean, it is shameful. I mean, there's so many things that Republicans have done this year over the past 10 years that go against everything, conservatives, real conservatives, Edmund Burke conservatives, Russell Kirk conservatives, Ronald Reagan conservatives have always believed Bill Buckley conservatives. You know, they've destroyed the Republican Party. They've destroyed the conservative movement. They put us into debt. They've got us into these wars.

They have completely undermined, undermined. The whole idea of America as a melting pot, the America that Ronald Reagan envisioned on his last night in the White House talking about us being stronger and more powerful and younger because of immigrants. But I don't say they hate America. They're horribly wrong. And what they're doing is destructive to this country in just about every way. But I don't say they hate America. But, you know, Jonathan, they have no problem saying that. They really don't.

And I think most people watching that are, like, really? You're really going to say that? Yeah, I mean, we have from the White House all the time, the President of the United States calls Democrats traitors. Yeah. And we know what the punishment for being a traitor is for the reason. I mean, it's typical that they paint them in such stark apocalyptic turns. And I agree.

Maybe that plays well with a small segment of the base. But I think most Americans, even if you're a Republican, you don't like Democrats, you don't go for that. You don't suggest that my neighbor who I, yes, I disagree with on certain. issues. I don't claim that he hates America, but it's, but it's certainly a coarsening of our politics that that is happening more and more that we hear that sort of rhetoric and it just reinforces how polarized and divided we are. Maybe that works, Willie, when things are going well, when things are going better, but gas prices are way too high, diesel prices are way too high, grocery prices are way too high, the rent is

way too high, the mortgages way too high, inflation way too high, the cost of for Americans way too high, and they will tell you about it. They talked to somebody who's been in focus groups over the last two weeks in a swing state. I said, what's your, I always ask, what's your biggest takeaway? Give it to me. Give me the lead. The lead here was people are really hurting. They're working two jobs. They're angry. They're working two jobs. They're angry. They're not getting to see their children as much as they used to. They're angry that they're falling behind on their bills. They're angry that they're their credit cards are maxing up. They're angry about that. They're not thinking about all of this,

this nonsense that Republicans could get away with in 2024, because as challenging as things were in 2024, economically, they're a lot worse now for working Americans than they were in 2024. It's not even close. It's much worse. I wonder if Senator Scott thinks Jim Clyburn hates America, his Democratic colleague in the state of South Carolina, who's a friend of it. Does he think Jim Clyburn and those Democrats hate America, or do they have differences on some policy issues? It's the latter. But we know what's going on here. The Republican Party performs for Donald Trump always in public. And in this case, it was Donald Trump there in the room. So they're performing for Donald Trump. I think this is what the boss wants to see. I think this is what he wants to hear.

And that's had real catty policy implications when you have a completely sideline Congress that just steps aside and lets a president of the United States impose tariffs and start wars without having a voice in it whatsoever. That was on full display last night. Yeah, I mean, you get a speech, if you can call it, a speech like Tim Scots because at the moment the Republican Party really has very little else to run on, apart from trying to demonize Democrats. And they think that the way to get Trump's attention is to kind of whip themselves up into a frenzy.

I'm actually not sure that Donald Trump looks at Tim Scott and thinks, wow, that was a great performance. Sometimes Trump has a kind of ability as well to disdain those who overflatter him. I mean, he's done that with European leaders. Certainly, he kind of sees, you know, that's what the bully in the schoolyard does, right? You come up to me, you flatter me in that way that makes you look ridiculous, and it just makes Trump look at him and think, well, that was kind of ridiculous. But in terms of policy, you're right, Willie. I mean, the Republicans are having to do this because every other policy,

that they are running on is clearly unpopular. The tariffs are unpopular. The trade war with Canada is unpopular. The war in Iran is unpopular. The cost of living is unpopular. So what else can they do, apart from, say, the Democrats are reds under the bed? I mean, it's such an old line that they're pulling out.

The question is how many voters are actually going to buy that as opposed to, well, I'm paying again over $4 for my gas? And $6 for diesel and paying a lot more for health care. if I even have health care because Republicans voted to slash health care. Red State American, Blue State America. I mean, Tim Scott, we had that picture up. I'm like going, yes, trying to grab a heart out of somebody's chest or something. He's like, that was, you know, that was the Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom speech.

Trying to rip Indies heart out. It put terrible movie, but he obviously was inspired. Not one of their better after. Oh, one in three were great. One of three. Everybody. One and three words. As good as they get.

This. I don't want a. Not a scene. There's a simple explanation for it. What happens when you mix too much peyote and ether. Is that what it was? Really? Peotty and ether.

Only you would go there. Not that I'm not, just saying I've observed that. You bring your own special knowledge to the tape. Now that we get the insight of the morning from the chemist, we can go to break. Okay. That's your name now. The chemist. We're going to take a quick break.

and Jim Van de Haie is going to join us on the other side of the break to talk about the AI Twilight Zone. We'll be right back. All right, welcome back. Now to this story, a researcher with Anthropic says he's resigned over fears that artificial intelligence labs are racing to build systems. They won't be able to control. In a series of social media posts this week, 27-year-old Jacob Coxon says he spent the last

three years doing pre-training research at both OpenAI and Anthropic and claims neither company is acting responsibly. He wrote in part, quote, they are racing straight to self-improving superintelligence and gambling with our lives. As the Wall Street Journal notes, recent hacks by models from OpenAI and Anthropic have illustrated how AI systems can adopt nefarious goals and try to conceal them from humans. Once the systems begin to improve on their own, Coxson said, he fears they could advance enough to refuse commands. Just last week, during a meeting with G20 officials,

OpenAI CEO Sam Altman said, quote, I think some things are going to go very wrong with cybersecurity, unless people act quite urgently. And on Sunday, OpenAI's chief scientist advocated for, a coordinated industry slowdown. Writing in a blog post, quote, this is a time that calls for extreme caution. I am concerned no one is prepared

for the consequences of a continued rapid rise in machine intelligence. That chief scientist, along with Jacob Coxon, and more than 1,000 other AI researchers, recently signed a statement urging global government coordination on a system to slow AI development, if a brake pedal is needed to control models capable of improving on their own.

This all comes after Bill Gates recently told the New York Times that artificial intelligence poses a grave threat to jobs and human life and that urgently addressing the risks should be the world's top priority. Gates told the paper, quote, in private, people who understand how good this stuff is and how much better it's getting, they're very worried. He went on to say that few tech executives are willing to publicly admit it, adding, quote, they're now saying to each other, hey man, don't say that, it's bad for us. The next trillion dollars we're trying to raise. Billionaire Elon Musk has also been warning about artificial intelligence for several years,

saying AI tools present profound risks to society. and there's some chance that it will end humanity. And a member of Open AI's technical staff also weighed in yesterday, writing on social media, quote, I don't know what my probabilities are on literal extinction, but I think there are a number of ways AI could go poorly for humanity, and at the current, frankly, terrifying pace, humanity will be quite lucky if we manage to find and stay on. on the narrow path between all the bad outcomes. Let's bring around our CEO and co-founder of Axis, Jim Van Dy. Jim, you've been talking about AI, obviously, on the show for quite some time.

Over the past two weeks, you've had a lot of people involved in AI saying out loud what a lot of executives have been fretting about privately. I will say that the actual leaders of most companies and the people running Silicon Valley don't want to hear any of this. They say it's, oh, these are just, you know, doom sayers and everything is going to be fine. And by the way, if we slow down, China's going to take over. Again, you've been following very closely. Where are you on this question about AI?

And, you know, one side's saying nothing to worry about. We're, you know, let us raise our trillion dollars and shut your mouth. And on the other side, really bright people invested in this industry saying there's a 10 to 20% chance that this will end humanity. And even Elon Musk, warning since 2014 that this poses a grave risk to humanity and that he believes that humans won't be in charge of Earth even a decade from now. Yeah. I mean, for your viewers, this is obviously scary stuff to even discuss. Like, here's my view. I think we're going to look back and we're going to say shame on us, shame on Congress, shame on the federal government, and shame on big business, that we did not spend this entire year hyper-obsessed with how we understand this technology, how we make sure that it benefits every person, not just the powerful and the few, that we did not think ahead of time about how to regulate it if it needs to be regulated and how to contain it. You should take these warnings very, very seriously. I talk every,

single day to many people at these labs at Open AI, at Anthropic, at Google. I don't talk to a single person who doesn't have some level of fear that there'll be a very, very bad outcome, not necessarily ending humanity, which sounds so scary is to be ludicrous, but a bad outcome in the next 12 months if something's not done. You have Sam Altman, Dario Amadeh, other people basically begging to slow down, begging for some form of regulation. And yet the White House spends almost no time thinking or talking about it. Very few people in Congress even understand the topic. We amuse ourselves to death. We distract ourselves to death on what I consider to be trivial and stupid topics in comparison to an area where you have so much investment.

Do you understand that the vast majority of your economy right now is propped up by artificial intelligence investment? Do you understand that in the history of humanity, we've never seen two companies grow this big in revenue, this big in value, seep into so many other companies this quickly. There's no comparison. Go back to the very beginning of time. No comparison. And I think for a lot of people, they're like, well, I use the technology. It's not that interesting. I don't understand all the hype. And the gap between you and that researcher who's staring at this technology all day is that they're looking at a technology that hasn't been released yet. They're watching all of the benchmarks that they've thought about for five years, and they're blowing

through them. The technology is getting better than anybody thought was possible, and it's getting to the point where it can start to train itself. And I know this sounds weird, and it's hard to even get your head around. But you need to understand this term. Hey, Jim. Jim, Jim, before you get there, why don't you give us the example of what happened a couple of weeks ago with an open AI model that broke out, created basically its own civilizations, created its own societies, actually had leaders, AI agent leaders, that actually told other AI agents,

you're going to have to sacrifice yourself for the betterment of the entire community. And of those 15 or 1,600 that were breaking out and doing things that humans had not told them to do, only six of those 1,600 even contemplated. letting humans know that they had broken out. And those six AI agents said nothing. It feels like we're in the simulation just hearing you say that.

I think most people are listening to it. They're like, what? Like this computer-generated thing started to think like a person? And it does. That's what's freaking people out. Like a civilization. Like a civilization with... That was a little overhyped.

That was a little overhyped. But it was real that in these testing confines, they create these agents that basically think like we do. Remember, all AI did was eat the totality of human intelligence and then basically replicate how we think and how we operate. So the fact that you see these agents, which are essentially the manifestation of that, behaving like we do is not that surprising. What's freaking people out is that in these labs, they start to kind of think on their own. They talk, like you said, about trying to like hide things from the AI creators. And right now that's confined. It's protected. So it's a little bit overhyped.

But the worry is that we're probably months and maybe at the most, a couple of years away from what they call recursive self-improvement, where these agents start to train themselves. And when they start to train themselves, they get smarter than we do. And they start to do things that we can't necessarily control. And that's why you have these AI companies essentially begging. I remember them this. They're begging for us to slow them down. In some ways, they're begging for regulation. And then the critics that David Sachs of the world will say, oh, they're just doing that to hype their product.

Maybe a little bit. But I think you need to take seriously that it's not one, not two, but now scores of people, hundreds of people, thousands of people that have worked at these companies are all saying the exact same thing. So maybe we should take them seriously. Maybe Congress should stop dithering. Maybe they should come back and start to think deeply about how do we put together the best and brightest minds to make sure that this ends. well for people. This is not a 10 year, 20 year away problem. We're going to look back, and I really do believe we're going to say shame on ourselves for not getting ahead of this, because we can. Like, we're smart enough. We figured out how to create nuclear weapons,

which we probably shouldn't have created, but then we figured out how to live with that. We even negotiated treaties with the Russians and the Chinese and others to make sure that this thing that could destroy things doesn't destroy things. So we're capable of it, but not if we amuse ourselves to death, not if we dumb ourselves to death. And that is my biggest fear right now is that AI is so weird and it's so abstract for most people that we're going to wait until it's too late. And I think it's why this researcher sounded the alarm. Yeah. I mean, there's nothing weird about what's going on now. And I mean, even some of these agents, all the agents, tried to cover their tracks so the humans couldn't see exactly what happened. But, you know,

I have some leaders, some Silicon Valley leaders telling me that there's a left-wing conspiracy. see, they're all leftists, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Elon Musk, nobody's called him a leftist lately. Musk has been sounding the alarm since 2014. AI could end humanity. He was one of the first to say it. And now you've got the guy, he's richest guy in the world. He's got his own AI company.

And he's still saying, I don't even think humans are going to run this world a decade from now. Yeah, and it's bipartisan, by the way. Yes, Congress has not been very quick at the switch on this, but Ted Cruz is against it. And Bernie Sanders is against it. Once more action. To your point, Jim, about all the people that have come out. Yes, we have people like this whistleblower from Anthropic. But you also have the godfathers of the movement, Sam Altman, right?

I mean, when Sam Altman's coming out and saying, let's read the quote again, I think some things are going to go very wrong with cybersecurity unless people act quite urgently. That's Sam Altman. It's like Henry Ford saying, this car I build. It's pretty dangerous. Somebody ought to regulate this thing. So what does that look like, though? What can Congress?

What should Congress? what should the White House be focused on to build some guardrails? Because obviously this is moving so much quicker than the United States Congress moves. I don't think this is particularly complicated. We should have and we should now form some kind of special committee that includes the federal government, includes the CIA, includes Congress, includes experts to be reviewing these models and making sure that things aren't getting released before we understand how they actually work when they're unleashed to the public.

That could easily be done. And by the way, the labs want us to do that. Even data centers, which are super unpopular right now, I know from talking to these people, we talk to Samoatma, we talk to Dari Amadeh, we talk to people who work for them all the time. I think they would gladly agree to parameters that any data center doesn't use any energy

that they don't create, that they don't reverse any problems they create for water supply, that they make sure that all of that money that's being generated, that a nice slice of it goes to that local community. I think these companies understand that if they don't get this right, the politics are shifting. They are going to get crushed. People hate AI. They hate data centers.

The reason that this young researcher, he'd only been at Anthropic four months, it's not a senior official, he has 142 million people as of right now who've read that tweet. 142 million. You only have 330 million people in this country. So it hits something. And I think that we're not that far away from the Democratic Party, potentially the Republican Party, saying to hell with that. Let's shut this down or slow it down. And the AI companies know that.

So I think that the environment is very ripe to get smart people together and to put these regulations around it and to make sure that this does benefit. Because I do think there's many outcomes where this could be great for a lot of people. It could be great for science. It could be great for curing cancer. It could be great for starting small businesses. but not if we let it go and we unleash it recklessly. And the balance here is, of course, putting guardrails around it. But also understanding that China is six months behind us.

So if we were to shut it down tomorrow, well, then it would be China, North Korea, Iran, Russia. It would be the worst of the worst that would be going past us. So that is the balancing act, which actually requires Congress. And yes, Donald Trump to be able to do two things at one time. Yes, and I think the last point is the crucial one, right? It's with the China issue. The China issue is not, you know, on any given day, it's whether they're six months behind or three months behind. This is an AI arms race, and, you know, there has to be a global solution to this problem because that is the nature of this technology. It flows globally.

It just so happens. Shisheng Pang is coming into Washington in September, and the White House has said that AI is going to be on the agenda for that summit meeting with Donald Trump. It may be fanciful to suggest that this would be a moment for leadership on the part of the president on issue. It's complicated that he has not seemed interested in it at all other than to say, let her rip. Do whatever. Do whatever you want. This is the moment. For two reasons.

And one reason is he's getting a ton of money from people that run the industry. And number two, as Jim said, the entire economy right now is built on the AI bubble. People's retirement funds built on the AI bubble. The S&P 500 basically is loaded into four. five, six stocks, AI stocks, rev. So if they fall, the economy falls. If the economy falls, then you have the issue that Jim is raising of where this can go. But then on the ground, I think American Federation of Teachers and National Action Network, all of us are dealing with getting them to invest in training people on the ground basics. So we're not eliminating

jobs. I'm concerned that in a lot of our communities that are not AI-listing. are just being put out of work. So there has to be a balance between where we train people, but where we don't let this get out of hand to where they're actually controlling the entire planet with artificial intelligence, but not ignoring on the ground. We're already losing thousands of jobs

because people can't work where you need AI intelligence. We need them. Jim Van de Jaya Vaxias, thank you very much. You can read his latest piece. Thank you, Jim. on Axius right now. John Hellman, Reverend L. Sharpton, thank you both very much for being on this morning. The chemist and the Reverend. Thank you guys so much. Coming up, Democrats are also down in Dallas, bringing their own midterm messaging to voters amid President Trump's convention there. Democratic

Congressman Jason Crowe is leading that effort, and he will join us just ahead on Morning Joe.